stgraberajmitch: yeah, config is always tricky to handle and I'm not sure we'll find a safe way to handle that any time soon00:00
Davieydoko: Well it builds in both pbuilder and sbuild local.. not quite got the confidence to throw in a no-change rebuild into the archive yet.. :).. Just pushed to a virgin PPA, will see what that does.00:04
* Daviey ponders how nice it would be if the package build tools had the same behavior as the archive.00:05
lifelessyou can do that - heck, run a local PPA for testing :)00:07
stgraberDaviey: can't you just grab a LP buildd chroot? that should give pretty much the same behaviour00:07
Davieylifeless: fancy writing an ensemble formula for that? :)00:08
Davieystgraber: where from?00:08
lifelessDaviey: once ensemble has lxc support :)00:08
Davieylifeless: bah00:08
stgraberDaviey: give me 5 minutes, I'll try to find the URL again ;) I know it's somewhere in the LP api00:09
lifelessDaviey: the word 'local' being relevant there ;)00:09
stgraberDaviey: https://api.launchpad.net/1.0/ubuntu/oneiric/amd6400:10
Davieystgraber: nice find!00:11
stgraberDaviey: I never actually used them but I saw that once in the API :)00:11
stgraberajmitch: Quick demo of arb-wrapper (available in https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/arb-testing): http://paste.ubuntu.com/685673/00:16
ajmitchstgraber: thanks00:31
micahgpoolie: did hallyn get back to you?01:00
pooliehi, not that i noticed01:01
pooliei would appreciate if you file or point out a bug and i'll see if we can do something about it01:01
micahgpoolie: bug 82067101:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 820671 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "no libvirt in maverick-updates or natty-updates udd trees" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/82067101:17
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tjaaltonbug 824913, any archive admin know how that's possible?04:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 824913 in Ubuntu "LUCID linux-headers-generic-lts-backport-maverick depends on missing linux-headers-2.6.35-30" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/82491304:06
tjaaltonthe archive has the deb, but the index files not04:06
pooliethanks micahg04:17
pittiGood morning04:25
pooliehi pitti04:25
didrocksgood morning05:03
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dholbachgood morning06:56
dholbachcan somebody please reject https://code.launchpad.net/~sinzui/ubuntu/oneiric/gedit-developer-plugins/0.5.4-release/+merge/74628?08:09
pittidholbach: done08:10
pittistill weird why core-devs can't do this08:10
dholbachthanks pitti08:10
dholbachand please reject https://code.launchpad.net/~paulbrianstewart/ubuntu/oneiric/alarm-clock-applet/830806-Punctuation-Correction/+merge/72373 too08:13
pittidholbach: done08:26
kelemengabornjpatel: hi, do you have a few minutes to review my proposed branch for bug #437963 ?08:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 437963 in Ubuntu Translations "Untranslatable strings in Plugin manager" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43796308:31
kelemengaboror any evolution-indicator devs? :)08:33
njpatelkelemengabor, approved, just merging08:40
njpatelkelemengabor, we'll need a new release, will ping didrocks with the tarball08:41
njpatelkelemengabor, didrocks https://launchpad.net/evolution-indicator/0.2.0/0.2.2008:47
seb128didrocks, njpatel: what is the new version for? do you want me to package it?08:48
didrocksnjpatel: thanks, maybe cyphermox_ will make the update as he's in charge of the evo stack nowdays!08:48
didrocksseb128: oh yeah, please! that's more than welcome :)08:48
seb128didrocks, doing08:48
didrocksthanks :)08:48
njpatelseb128, it's for this bug: #43796308:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 437963 in Ubuntu Translations "Untranslatable strings in Plugin manager" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43796308:48
seb128njpatel, thanks08:49
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SnicksieHi all... I'd like to get started in ubuntu development, i've read the howto (UbuntuDevelopment @ wiki) and i'm looking what I can do, but I find it quite difficult to get started... Is there someone who could help me with getting started? I'm also quite unsure about what teams I need to join and what steps I need to make before I can help developing... I'd like to help bugfixing, but I've not enough knowledge to help with that :(10:32
tjaaltonany archive admin available to figure out why bug 824913 exists? :)10:37
dholbachSnicksie, I would suggest you check out http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/10:37
tjaaltonuh, no ubottu10:37
Snicksiewill read that, dholbach :)10:39
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Snicksiedholbach, i'm afraid i dont really have enough experience with programming languages like c/cpp/python, which seems to be the most used languages in ubuntu... do you have any helpful information how to learn that? :$ I only 'know' the basics (as in really basic) from cpp and I have some  experience with java / php/ js / etc...11:52
dholbachSnicksie, you could just start trying to fix very small issues11:53
Snicksiei've tried to search for 'simple' bitesize bugs, but the simple ones seem already taken :(11:53
lenios__i'm wondering where to ask to get my package into main repositories12:02
lenios__available at https://launchpad.net/~richard-sellam/+archive/ppa , although will need some work to merge with debian testing12:03
Chipzzlenios__: a) you should mention *which* package and b) packages don't go into main easily, a package being in mai means canonical *wants* to support it, which is hardly the case for just any package out there. I suspect you want your package in universe/multiverse instead12:16
lenios__oops, i meant universe12:17
lenios__package is ocsinventory-agent12:17
Chipzzbetter place to ask is #ubuntu-motu12:18
dokoohh, nice, libunity5 :-/12:19
pittidoko: rebuilds were uploaded12:19
* pitti is waiting for powerpc to catch up to drop libcamel and libnotify112:19
pittiI'll have a look at the libevent-1.4-2 rdepends12:20
dokobarry, could you have a look at bug 621242 for the dh_python2 changes?12:45
ubottuLaunchpad bug 621242 in mocker (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[MIR] mocker" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/62124212:45
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barrydoko: mp submitted for bug 621242 to switch mocker to dh_python2.  care to review?  i'm happy to upload it if it looks okay to you14:41
ubottuLaunchpad bug 621242 in mocker (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[MIR] mocker" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/62124214:41
dokobarry, looks ok14:46
barrydoko: thanks, pushing15:04
cr3cjwatson: hi there, might you happen to remember why the chain.c32 is needed to netboot some systems from the first drive since maverick?15:54
cjwatsoncr3: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/syslinux/+bug/625383 has all I know15:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 625383 in Release Notes for Ubuntu "grub hangs at early booting after handoff from PXE" [Undecided,Fix released]15:56
cr3cjwatson: ah, so it's been fix released after maverick, so I shouldn't need the workaround anymore for natty and oneiric!15:58
cjwatsonno, the release notes task is fix-released, everything else is wont-fix - just use chain.c3215:59
cr3cjwatson: thanks for pointing that out, cheers!15:59
cjwatsoninvestigating what went wrong with localboot is a rathole and probably impossible without access to the PXE BIOS code15:59
cjwatsonor infeasible anyway16:00
cjwatsonchain.c32 means it doesn't matter if this particular corner of the PXE BIOS is buggy16:00
cr3cjwatson: might it be worthwhile to make that assumption the default behavior, ie assuming bugginess which is probably quite common when it comes to BIOS code :)16:03
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cjwatsoncr3: there's no default, you just write LOCALBOOT or COM32 chain.c32 (or whatever the exact rune is) depending on what you want to happen; I don't think it would be appropriate to turn one into a magic shim for the other, no16:05
cr3cjwatson: or here's another idea: how about we make the chain.c32 file from the syslinux package directly available on the alternate and server images to enable sysadmins when netbooting?16:06
cr3hggdh`: ^^^ do you think that would help folks?16:06
hggdhyes, it would. It makes no sense to find oneself with an ISO that will not PXE-boot16:08
hggdhlike what happened with me...16:08
cjwatsoncr3: sure, it's tiny enough.  done16:09
cr3cjwatson: many thanks, you've just made a few server folks quite happy :)16:09
hggdhcjwatson: thank you, from the bottom of my heart, and all that :-)16:11
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gotwigcjwatson: hey16:42
gotwigcjwatson: we talked yesterday about seeds, right?16:43
gotwigcjwatson: may I ask you something about that ?16:43
gotwigcjwatson: can I build my own ubuntu image, with custom seeds from me? If yes, how?16:43
cjwatsonprobably simplest to direct you to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization16:44
cjwatsonwell, maybe, that's not a build from scratch16:45
cjwatsonfor >= oneiric you can use the live-build package16:45
gotwigcjwatson: ?16:45
cjwatsonand as far as seeds go, you'd update ubuntu-meta to point to your seeds and put that in a local repository16:46
gotwigcjwatson: there is no manual, for using seeds to build an image16:46
cjwatsonno, there is not16:46
cjwatsonhonestly, though, I don't do this kind of thing because I have all the central infrastructure to hand.  I'm sure there are others who can help you much more usefully than I can16:46
gotwigcjwatson: which infrastructure?16:46
cjwatsonthe sort of people who build derivative distributions of Ubuntu16:46
cjwatsonlive-build, livecd-rootfs, the Ubuntu cdimage code16:47
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smoserSpamapS, have you tried to re-create the users issues in bug 839595 ?17:23
ubottuLaunchpad bug 839595 in Release Notes for Ubuntu "failsafe.conf's 30 second time out is too low" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83959517:23
smoseryou can probably avoid lots of back and forth if you just boot a vm without eth0 (or you could add an 'auto eth1' entry)17:24
SpamapSsmoser: no, I couldn't recreate it. X starts fine for me.17:26
SpamapSsmoser: trying to figure out what is blocking him17:26
ScottKSpamapS: I'd appreciate it if you could move clamav to natty-updates now.  It's verification done.17:34
SpamapSScottK: I'll make a sweep in a bit, Thanks for the heads up.17:34
sbeattiebarry: how do you get around bzr merge-package refusing to work due to uncommitted local changes from doing quilt pop -a first? I don't particularly want to add a spurious commit just for popping everything off before a merge.17:35
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om26ercould anyone sponsor this unity fix https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu/oneiric/unity/unity-fix-840285/+merge/74854 the issue is quite important I believe18:48
highvoltageheh, keybuk caused quite a stir18:56
tumbleweedhighvoltage: where did you see that? I've had IRL discussion about it today, but seen nothing about it on the lists / planet since19:03
ScottKAbout what?19:03
* ScottK is all confused19:04
tumbleweed20:56 < highvoltage> heh, keybuk caused quite a stir19:04
ScottKright, but what was the stir?19:04
tumbleweedproposed monthly releases19:04
broderScottK: http://netsplit.com/2011/09/08/new-ubuntu-release-process/19:04
stgraberit was just on Planet, slashdot and LWN :)19:04
highvoltageyeah, on slashdot, LWN, linux.com, etc19:09
nigelbIt is an interesting proposal :)19:09
tumbleweedlots of noise outside Ubuntu, none inside :)19:09
highvoltageand I was overhearing people in the office talking about it too19:09
nigelbheh, same here.19:09
nigelbservers bit especially19:10
nigelbwhat would happen, etc19:10
ScottKJust add one more layer: "Really effing stable."19:11
ScottKI think he's totally right on the problem.  Not sure I agree with his solution.19:12
highvoltageScottK: yep, all the reasonable people I've spoken to about it said pretty much the same thing. things could be done a lot better, but there's not yet a nice solution that really fixes the current problems nicely without introducing other nasty ones19:14
ScottKI think if things like Unity had their own feature planning/release schedule that were shifted earlier than Ubuntu's it could be sovled.19:16
ScottKIf, to pick an example, Unity were developed on a schedule similar to Gnome/KDEs then they could start on feature work for release +1 as soon as Ubuntu's feature freeze hits.19:17
ScottKThey need to decouple their planning from the Ubuntu planning schedule.19:17
ScottKBasically "Development" and "Distribution Integration" are two different things.19:17
jbichathe proposal is similar to the Chrome/Firefox schedule19:18
ScottKTrying to do development on the distro integration schedule doesn't make for a happy solution.19:18
ScottKI think he underestimates the complexity of what he's proposing.19:18
ScottKI don't think it scales from one package to 20,000.19:18
micahgom26er: is unity not using a patch system?19:57
om26ermicahg, its using quilt, everyone was just patching the source directly but I could try with quilt if required19:58
micahgom26er: well, I can only speak in generalities, but usually in the distro, if there's a patch system, we use it, but you should probably ask the -desktop people19:59
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SpamapSslangasek: what do you think about this discussion in bug 839595 .. It would appear that at least a few users have an auto interface setup that is causing their boot to be much slower.20:08
ubottuLaunchpad bug 839595 in Release Notes for Ubuntu "failsafe.conf's 30 second time out is too low" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83959520:08
superm1slangasek, did i read somewhere that the 700mb oversized mark was wrong on c.u.c?  that it's actually like a meg or two more that are allowed?  mythbuntu amd64 is oversized to like 701mb, so i was hoping wouldn't need to fix that.20:21
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afeder_I am trying to compile network-manager-applet, but it depends on 'NetworkManager >= 0.9.1'. Where can I get this package when the most recent version in main repositories is  0.9.0?21:48
jbichaafeder_: why don't you compile NetworkManager while you're at it then?21:59
afeder_i wouldnt know how :/22:00
afeder_oh i guess i would pull it from LP too...22:01
* afeder_ is slow but gets there eventually22:01
cjwatsonsbeattie: it seems odd that 'bzr merge-package' doesn't have a --force option.  I use 'bzr merge --force' for that kind of thing and it works fine, although I'm probably missing some subtle bit of magic from merge-package.22:49
SpamapSDoes anyone know if NetworkManager for some reason edits /etc/network/interfaces ? bug 839595 has some discussion going on that suggests it might, but I don't think thats how it works.22:57
ubottuLaunchpad bug 839595 in Release Notes for Ubuntu "failsafe.conf's 30 second time out is too low" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83959522:57
cyphermox_SpamapS: I was just running out for the weekend, but NM doesn't edit /e/n/i23:00
cyphermox_it reads it though23:00
cyphermox_(unless you use Debian's NM, which touches /e/n/i as part of the maintainer scripts, we don't have those)23:01
SpamapScyphermox_: thanks... still running my tests, but good to know that it *shouldn't*23:01
cyphermox_give me a second, I'll make sure I can stay online while on the road (I'm not driving ;)23:02
cyphermox_ok, checking that bug report now23:08
SpamapScyphermox_: thanks.. I really think its mostly just left over auto's in /etc/network/interfaces, and not something people w/ normal configurations should see23:08
cyphermox_if /e/n/i still contains an entry with 'auto <iface>', nm will ignore it23:09
SpamapSRight, whereas the new boot procedure won't.. it will try and wait for it.23:09
SpamapSWhich is what we *want*.. but may not be what people *expect*23:10
cyphermox_sorry,, not sure I follow there23:10
SpamapSWe made a change to the boot..23:10
SpamapSso that runlevel 2 waits for all the auto interfaces to be up23:10
cyphermox_and it looks for entries with auto?23:10
SpamapSsince most desktops/laptops should have no auto's23:10
cyphermox_afaik it shouldn't contain it on new installs, and it's been the case for long enough that the vast majority of upgrades wouldn't have them either23:11
SpamapSbut 2 users , including our own RAOF, have complained because this suddenly causes their boot to take 2 extra minutes23:11
cyphermox_I can think of some vm setups "require" the use of /e/n/i, for instance for bridginh23:11
cyphermox_gah, I really can't type today23:11
SpamapSI'm wondering if its worth making do-release-upgrade warn them or something.23:12
SpamapSbridging problems actually are a big part of why we're doing this23:12
SpamapSIf we don't wait, auto-vm's can't use the bridge for instance.23:12
SpamapSIts the typical gripe when you remove a race condition.. things go slower. ;)23:13
cyphermox_so what's the thing about NM changing /e/n/i then?23:13
SpamapScyphermox_: I think its just FUD23:13
cyphermox_oh ok23:13
cyphermox_I know it reads the file, i guess it *could* be the case that it touches it, but I seriously doubt it. I haven't seen this kind of changes in that part of the code pass by, and I'm pretty sure someone would have noticed and complained23:17
cyphermox_given we've already complained about touching /etc/hosts, and I think /etc/resolv.conf may still be an issue, I don't think changing /e/n/i would fly, dcbw already knows about it23:17
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bdmurraypitti: how will the retracer handle the case where a bug with a duplicate signature is marked as a duplicate of another without a signature?23:20
bdmurraypitti: bug 845093 is an example of what I'm talking about23:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 841753 in bcmwl (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #845093 package bcmwl-kernel-source bdcom-0ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: bcmwl kernel module failed to build (Makefile: No such file or directory)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/84175323:21
cyphermox_SpamapS: could some of this delay come from the isc-dhcp delay changes, if those landed?23:21
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SpamapScyphermox: yes and no..23:36
SpamapScyphermox: yes because the delay is now "to infinity and beyond", but no because failsafe.conf boots the system after 120 seconds.. so its really failsafe's problem now. :)23:36
cyphermoxfailsafe.conf or whatever brings up the interfaces to specify a dhcp timeout?23:37
cyphermoxwell, taking off now, ttyl23:38
SpamapScyphermox: thanks for the insight. :)23:50

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