[00:00] <stgraber> ajmitch: yeah, config is always tricky to handle and I'm not sure we'll find a safe way to handle that any time soon
[00:04] <Daviey> doko: Well it builds in both pbuilder and sbuild local.. not quite got the confidence to throw in a no-change rebuild into the archive yet.. :).. Just pushed to a virgin PPA, will see what that does.
[00:05]  * Daviey ponders how nice it would be if the package build tools had the same behavior as the archive.
[00:07] <lifeless> you can do that - heck, run a local PPA for testing :)
[00:07] <stgraber> Daviey: can't you just grab a LP buildd chroot? that should give pretty much the same behaviour
[00:08] <Daviey> lifeless: fancy writing an ensemble formula for that? :)
[00:08] <Daviey> stgraber: where from?
[00:08] <lifeless> Daviey: once ensemble has lxc support :)
[00:08] <Daviey> lifeless: bah
[00:09] <stgraber> Daviey: give me 5 minutes, I'll try to find the URL again ;) I know it's somewhere in the LP api
[00:09] <lifeless> Daviey: the word 'local' being relevant there ;)
[00:10] <stgraber> Daviey: https://api.launchpad.net/1.0/ubuntu/oneiric/amd64
[00:11] <Daviey> stgraber: nice find!
[00:11] <stgraber> Daviey: I never actually used them but I saw that once in the API :)
[00:16] <stgraber> ajmitch: Quick demo of arb-wrapper (available in https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/arb-testing): http://paste.ubuntu.com/685673/
[00:31] <ajmitch> stgraber: thanks
[01:00] <micahg> poolie: did hallyn get back to you?
[01:01] <poolie> hi, not that i noticed
[01:01] <poolie> i would appreciate if you file or point out a bug and i'll see if we can do something about it
[01:17] <micahg> poolie: bug 820671
[04:06] <tjaalton> bug 824913, any archive admin know how that's possible?
[04:06] <tjaalton> the archive has the deb, but the index files not
[04:17] <poolie> thanks micahg
[04:25] <pitti> Good morning
[04:25] <poolie> hi pitti
[05:03] <didrocks> good morning
[06:56] <dholbach> good morning
[08:09] <dholbach> can somebody please reject https://code.launchpad.net/~sinzui/ubuntu/oneiric/gedit-developer-plugins/0.5.4-release/+merge/74628?
[08:10] <pitti> dholbach: done
[08:10] <pitti> still weird why core-devs can't do this
[08:10] <dholbach> thanks pitti
[08:13] <dholbach> and please reject https://code.launchpad.net/~paulbrianstewart/ubuntu/oneiric/alarm-clock-applet/830806-Punctuation-Correction/+merge/72373 too
[08:26] <pitti> dholbach: done
[08:28] <dholbach> thanks
[08:31] <kelemengabor> njpatel: hi, do you have a few minutes to review my proposed branch for bug #437963 ?
[08:33] <kelemengabor> or any evolution-indicator devs? :)
[08:40] <njpatel> kelemengabor, approved, just merging
[08:41] <njpatel> kelemengabor, we'll need a new release, will ping didrocks with the tarball
[08:41] <kelemengabor> thanks!
[08:47] <njpatel> kelemengabor, didrocks https://launchpad.net/evolution-indicator/0.2.0/0.2.20
[08:48] <seb128> didrocks, njpatel: what is the new version for? do you want me to package it?
[08:48] <didrocks> njpatel: thanks, maybe cyphermox_ will make the update as he's in charge of the evo stack nowdays!
[08:48] <didrocks> seb128: oh yeah, please! that's more than welcome :)
[08:48] <seb128> didrocks, doing
[08:48] <didrocks> thanks :)
[08:48] <njpatel> seb128, it's for this bug: #437963
[08:49] <seb128> njpatel, thanks
[10:32] <Snicksie> Hi all... I'd like to get started in ubuntu development, i've read the howto (UbuntuDevelopment @ wiki) and i'm looking what I can do, but I find it quite difficult to get started... Is there someone who could help me with getting started? I'm also quite unsure about what teams I need to join and what steps I need to make before I can help developing... I'd like to help bugfixing, but I've not enough knowledge to help with that :(
[10:37] <tjaalton> any archive admin available to figure out why bug 824913 exists? :)
[10:37] <dholbach> Snicksie, I would suggest you check out http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/
[10:37] <tjaalton> uh, no ubottu
[10:38] <tjaalton> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/824913
[10:39] <Snicksie> will read that, dholbach :)
[11:52] <Snicksie> dholbach, i'm afraid i dont really have enough experience with programming languages like c/cpp/python, which seems to be the most used languages in ubuntu... do you have any helpful information how to learn that? :$ I only 'know' the basics (as in really basic) from cpp and I have some  experience with java / php/ js / etc...
[11:53] <dholbach> Snicksie, you could just start trying to fix very small issues
[11:53] <Snicksie> i've tried to search for 'simple' bitesize bugs, but the simple ones seem already taken :(
[12:02] <lenios__> i'm wondering where to ask to get my package into main repositories
[12:03] <lenios__> available at https://launchpad.net/~richard-sellam/+archive/ppa , although will need some work to merge with debian testing
[12:16] <Chipzz> lenios__: a) you should mention *which* package and b) packages don't go into main easily, a package being in mai means canonical *wants* to support it, which is hardly the case for just any package out there. I suspect you want your package in universe/multiverse instead
[12:17] <lenios__> oops, i meant universe
[12:17] <lenios__> package is ocsinventory-agent
[12:18] <Chipzz> better place to ask is #ubuntu-motu
[12:19] <doko> ohh, nice, libunity5 :-/
[12:19] <pitti> doko: rebuilds were uploaded
[12:19]  * pitti is waiting for powerpc to catch up to drop libcamel and libnotify1
[12:20] <pitti> I'll have a look at the libevent-1.4-2 rdepends
[12:31] <jml> :(
[12:45] <doko> barry, could you have a look at bug 621242 for the dh_python2 changes?
[14:41] <barry> doko: mp submitted for bug 621242 to switch mocker to dh_python2.  care to review?  i'm happy to upload it if it looks okay to you
[14:46] <doko> barry, looks ok
[15:04] <barry> doko: thanks, pushing
[15:54] <cr3> cjwatson: hi there, might you happen to remember why the chain.c32 is needed to netboot some systems from the first drive since maverick?
[15:56] <cjwatson> cr3: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/syslinux/+bug/625383 has all I know
[15:58] <cr3> cjwatson: ah, so it's been fix released after maverick, so I shouldn't need the workaround anymore for natty and oneiric!
[15:58] <cjwatson> err
[15:59] <cjwatson> no, the release notes task is fix-released, everything else is wont-fix - just use chain.c32
[15:59] <cr3> cjwatson: thanks for pointing that out, cheers!
[15:59] <cjwatson> investigating what went wrong with localboot is a rathole and probably impossible without access to the PXE BIOS code
[16:00] <cjwatson> or infeasible anyway
[16:00] <cjwatson> chain.c32 means it doesn't matter if this particular corner of the PXE BIOS is buggy
[16:03] <cr3> cjwatson: might it be worthwhile to make that assumption the default behavior, ie assuming bugginess which is probably quite common when it comes to BIOS code :)
[16:05] <cjwatson> cr3: there's no default, you just write LOCALBOOT or COM32 chain.c32 (or whatever the exact rune is) depending on what you want to happen; I don't think it would be appropriate to turn one into a magic shim for the other, no
[16:06] <cr3> cjwatson: or here's another idea: how about we make the chain.c32 file from the syslinux package directly available on the alternate and server images to enable sysadmins when netbooting?
[16:06] <cr3> hggdh`: ^^^ do you think that would help folks?
[16:08] <hggdh> yes, it would. It makes no sense to find oneself with an ISO that will not PXE-boot
[16:08] <hggdh> like what happened with me...
[16:09] <cjwatson> cr3: sure, it's tiny enough.  done
[16:09] <cr3> cjwatson: many thanks, you've just made a few server folks quite happy :)
[16:11] <hggdh> cjwatson: thank you, from the bottom of my heart, and all that :-)
[16:42] <gotwig> cjwatson: hey
[16:43] <gotwig> cjwatson: we talked yesterday about seeds, right?
[16:43] <cjwatson> hi
[16:43] <cjwatson> yep
[16:43] <gotwig> cjwatson: may I ask you something about that ?
[16:43] <cjwatson> sure
[16:43] <gotwig> cjwatson: can I build my own ubuntu image, with custom seeds from me? If yes, how?
[16:44] <cjwatson> probably simplest to direct you to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
[16:45] <cjwatson> well, maybe, that's not a build from scratch
[16:45] <cjwatson> for >= oneiric you can use the live-build package
[16:45] <gotwig> cjwatson: ?
[16:46] <cjwatson> and as far as seeds go, you'd update ubuntu-meta to point to your seeds and put that in a local repository
[16:46] <gotwig> cjwatson: there is no manual, for using seeds to build an image
[16:46] <cjwatson> no, there is not
[16:46] <cjwatson> afaik
[16:46] <cjwatson> honestly, though, I don't do this kind of thing because I have all the central infrastructure to hand.  I'm sure there are others who can help you much more usefully than I can
[16:46] <gotwig> :/
[16:46] <gotwig> cjwatson: which infrastructure?
[16:46] <cjwatson> the sort of people who build derivative distributions of Ubuntu
[16:47] <cjwatson> live-build, livecd-rootfs, the Ubuntu cdimage code
[16:47] <gotwig> thx
[17:23] <smoser> SpamapS, have you tried to re-create the users issues in bug 839595 ?
[17:24] <smoser> you can probably avoid lots of back and forth if you just boot a vm without eth0 (or you could add an 'auto eth1' entry)
[17:26] <SpamapS> smoser: no, I couldn't recreate it. X starts fine for me.
[17:26] <SpamapS> smoser: trying to figure out what is blocking him
[17:34] <ScottK> SpamapS: I'd appreciate it if you could move clamav to natty-updates now.  It's verification done.
[17:34] <SpamapS> ScottK: I'll make a sweep in a bit, Thanks for the heads up.
[17:35] <ScottK> Thanks.
[17:35] <sbeattie> barry: how do you get around bzr merge-package refusing to work due to uncommitted local changes from doing quilt pop -a first? I don't particularly want to add a spurious commit just for popping everything off before a merge.
[18:48] <om26er> could anyone sponsor this unity fix https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu/oneiric/unity/unity-fix-840285/+merge/74854 the issue is quite important I believe
[18:56] <highvoltage> heh, keybuk caused quite a stir
[19:03] <ScottK> Oh?
[19:03] <tumbleweed> highvoltage: where did you see that? I've had IRL discussion about it today, but seen nothing about it on the lists / planet since
[19:03] <ScottK> About what?
[19:04]  * ScottK is all confused
[19:04] <tumbleweed> 20:56 < highvoltage> heh, keybuk caused quite a stir
[19:04] <ScottK> right, but what was the stir?
[19:04] <tumbleweed> proposed monthly releases
[19:04] <broder> ScottK: http://netsplit.com/2011/09/08/new-ubuntu-release-process/
[19:04] <stgraber> it was just on Planet, slashdot and LWN :)
[19:04] <ScottK> Thanks.
[19:09] <highvoltage> yeah, on slashdot, LWN, linux.com, etc
[19:09] <nigelb> It is an interesting proposal :)
[19:09] <tumbleweed> lots of noise outside Ubuntu, none inside :)
[19:09] <highvoltage> and I was overhearing people in the office talking about it too
[19:09] <nigelb> heh, same here.
[19:10] <nigelb> servers bit especially
[19:10] <nigelb> what would happen, etc
[19:11] <ScottK> Just add one more layer: "Really effing stable."
[19:12] <ScottK> I think he's totally right on the problem.  Not sure I agree with his solution.
[19:14] <highvoltage> ScottK: yep, all the reasonable people I've spoken to about it said pretty much the same thing. things could be done a lot better, but there's not yet a nice solution that really fixes the current problems nicely without introducing other nasty ones
[19:16] <ScottK> I think if things like Unity had their own feature planning/release schedule that were shifted earlier than Ubuntu's it could be sovled.
[19:17] <ScottK> If, to pick an example, Unity were developed on a schedule similar to Gnome/KDEs then they could start on feature work for release +1 as soon as Ubuntu's feature freeze hits.
[19:17] <ScottK> They need to decouple their planning from the Ubuntu planning schedule.
[19:17] <ScottK> Basically "Development" and "Distribution Integration" are two different things.
[19:18] <jbicha> the proposal is similar to the Chrome/Firefox schedule
[19:18] <ScottK> Trying to do development on the distro integration schedule doesn't make for a happy solution.
[19:18] <ScottK> I think he underestimates the complexity of what he's proposing.
[19:18] <ScottK> I don't think it scales from one package to 20,000.
[19:57] <micahg> om26er: is unity not using a patch system?
[19:58] <om26er> micahg, its using quilt, everyone was just patching the source directly but I could try with quilt if required
[19:59] <micahg> om26er: well, I can only speak in generalities, but usually in the distro, if there's a patch system, we use it, but you should probably ask the -desktop people
[20:08] <SpamapS> slangasek: what do you think about this discussion in bug 839595 .. It would appear that at least a few users have an auto interface setup that is causing their boot to be much slower.
[20:21] <superm1> slangasek, did i read somewhere that the 700mb oversized mark was wrong on c.u.c?  that it's actually like a meg or two more that are allowed?  mythbuntu amd64 is oversized to like 701mb, so i was hoping wouldn't need to fix that.
[21:48] <afeder_> I am trying to compile network-manager-applet, but it depends on 'NetworkManager >= 0.9.1'. Where can I get this package when the most recent version in main repositories is  0.9.0?
[21:59] <jbicha> afeder_: why don't you compile NetworkManager while you're at it then?
[22:00] <afeder_> i wouldnt know how :/
[22:01] <afeder_> oh i guess i would pull it from LP too...
[22:01]  * afeder_ is slow but gets there eventually
[22:01] <afeder_> thanks
[22:49] <cjwatson> sbeattie: it seems odd that 'bzr merge-package' doesn't have a --force option.  I use 'bzr merge --force' for that kind of thing and it works fine, although I'm probably missing some subtle bit of magic from merge-package.
[22:57] <SpamapS> Does anyone know if NetworkManager for some reason edits /etc/network/interfaces ? bug 839595 has some discussion going on that suggests it might, but I don't think thats how it works.
[23:00] <cyphermox_> SpamapS: I was just running out for the weekend, but NM doesn't edit /e/n/i
[23:00] <cyphermox_> it reads it though
[23:01] <cyphermox_> (unless you use Debian's NM, which touches /e/n/i as part of the maintainer scripts, we don't have those)
[23:01] <SpamapS> cyphermox_: thanks... still running my tests, but good to know that it *shouldn't*
[23:02] <cyphermox_> give me a second, I'll make sure I can stay online while on the road (I'm not driving ;)
[23:08] <cyphermox_> ok, checking that bug report now
[23:08] <SpamapS> cyphermox_: thanks.. I really think its mostly just left over auto's in /etc/network/interfaces, and not something people w/ normal configurations should see
[23:09] <cyphermox_> right
[23:09] <cyphermox_> if /e/n/i still contains an entry with 'auto <iface>', nm will ignore it
[23:09] <SpamapS> Right, whereas the new boot procedure won't.. it will try and wait for it.
[23:10] <SpamapS> Which is what we *want*.. but may not be what people *expect*
[23:10] <cyphermox_> sorry,, not sure I follow there
[23:10] <SpamapS> We made a change to the boot..
[23:10] <SpamapS> so that runlevel 2 waits for all the auto interfaces to be up
[23:10] <cyphermox_> and it looks for entries with auto?
[23:10] <SpamapS> since most desktops/laptops should have no auto's
[23:10] <cyphermox_> ok
[23:10] <cyphermox_> right
[23:11] <cyphermox_> afaik it shouldn't contain it on new installs, and it's been the case for long enough that the vast majority of upgrades wouldn't have them either
[23:11] <SpamapS> but 2 users , including our own RAOF, have complained because this suddenly causes their boot to take 2 extra minutes
[23:11] <cyphermox_> I can think of some vm setups "require" the use of /e/n/i, for instance for bridginh
[23:11] <cyphermox_> gah, I really can't type today
[23:12] <SpamapS> I'm wondering if its worth making do-release-upgrade warn them or something.
[23:12] <SpamapS> bridging problems actually are a big part of why we're doing this
[23:12] <cyphermox_> ok
[23:12] <SpamapS> If we don't wait, auto-vm's can't use the bridge for instance.
[23:12] <cyphermox_> yup
[23:13] <SpamapS> Its the typical gripe when you remove a race condition.. things go slower. ;)
[23:13] <cyphermox_> so what's the thing about NM changing /e/n/i then?
[23:13] <cyphermox_> hehe
[23:13] <SpamapS> cyphermox_: I think its just FUD
[23:13] <cyphermox_> oh ok
[23:17] <cyphermox_> I know it reads the file, i guess it *could* be the case that it touches it, but I seriously doubt it. I haven't seen this kind of changes in that part of the code pass by, and I'm pretty sure someone would have noticed and complained
[23:17] <cyphermox_> given we've already complained about touching /etc/hosts, and I think /etc/resolv.conf may still be an issue, I don't think changing /e/n/i would fly, dcbw already knows about it
[23:20] <bdmurray> pitti: how will the retracer handle the case where a bug with a duplicate signature is marked as a duplicate of another without a signature?
[23:21] <bdmurray> pitti: bug 845093 is an example of what I'm talking about
[23:21] <cyphermox_> SpamapS: could some of this delay come from the isc-dhcp delay changes, if those landed?
[23:36] <SpamapS> cyphermox: yes and no..
[23:36] <SpamapS> cyphermox: yes because the delay is now "to infinity and beyond", but no because failsafe.conf boots the system after 120 seconds.. so its really failsafe's problem now. :)
[23:36] <cyphermox> ok
[23:37] <cyphermox> failsafe.conf or whatever brings up the interfaces to specify a dhcp timeout?
[23:38] <cyphermox> well, taking off now, ttyl
[23:50] <SpamapS> cyphermox: thanks for the insight. :)