[00:00] ajmitch: yeah, config is always tricky to handle and I'm not sure we'll find a safe way to handle that any time soon [00:04] doko: Well it builds in both pbuilder and sbuild local.. not quite got the confidence to throw in a no-change rebuild into the archive yet.. :).. Just pushed to a virgin PPA, will see what that does. [00:05] * Daviey ponders how nice it would be if the package build tools had the same behavior as the archive. [00:07] you can do that - heck, run a local PPA for testing :) [00:07] Daviey: can't you just grab a LP buildd chroot? that should give pretty much the same behaviour [00:08] lifeless: fancy writing an ensemble formula for that? :) [00:08] stgraber: where from? [00:08] Daviey: once ensemble has lxc support :) [00:08] lifeless: bah [00:09] Daviey: give me 5 minutes, I'll try to find the URL again ;) I know it's somewhere in the LP api [00:09] Daviey: the word 'local' being relevant there ;) [00:10] Daviey: https://api.launchpad.net/1.0/ubuntu/oneiric/amd64 [00:11] stgraber: nice find! [00:11] Daviey: I never actually used them but I saw that once in the API :) [00:16] ajmitch: Quick demo of arb-wrapper (available in https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/arb-testing): http://paste.ubuntu.com/685673/ [00:31] stgraber: thanks [01:00] poolie: did hallyn get back to you? [01:01] hi, not that i noticed [01:01] i would appreciate if you file or point out a bug and i'll see if we can do something about it [01:17] poolie: bug 820671 [01:17] Launchpad bug 820671 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "no libvirt in maverick-updates or natty-updates udd trees" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/820671 === panda is now known as Guest54912 === tilgovi_ is now known as tilgovi [04:06] bug 824913, any archive admin know how that's possible? [04:06] Launchpad bug 824913 in Ubuntu "LUCID linux-headers-generic-lts-backport-maverick 2.6.35.30.38 depends on missing linux-headers-2.6.35-30" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/824913 [04:06] the archive has the deb, but the index files not [04:17] thanks micahg [04:25] Good morning [04:25] hi pitti [05:03] good morning === artfwo_ is now known as artfwo [06:56] good morning [08:09] can somebody please reject https://code.launchpad.net/~sinzui/ubuntu/oneiric/gedit-developer-plugins/0.5.4-release/+merge/74628? [08:10] dholbach: done [08:10] still weird why core-devs can't do this [08:10] thanks pitti [08:13] and please reject https://code.launchpad.net/~paulbrianstewart/ubuntu/oneiric/alarm-clock-applet/830806-Punctuation-Correction/+merge/72373 too [08:26] dholbach: done [08:28] thanks [08:31] njpatel: hi, do you have a few minutes to review my proposed branch for bug #437963 ? [08:31] Launchpad bug 437963 in Ubuntu Translations "Untranslatable strings in Plugin manager" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/437963 [08:33] or any evolution-indicator devs? :) [08:40] kelemengabor, approved, just merging [08:41] kelemengabor, we'll need a new release, will ping didrocks with the tarball [08:41] thanks! [08:47] kelemengabor, didrocks https://launchpad.net/evolution-indicator/0.2.0/0.2.20 [08:48] didrocks, njpatel: what is the new version for? do you want me to package it? [08:48] njpatel: thanks, maybe cyphermox_ will make the update as he's in charge of the evo stack nowdays! [08:48] seb128: oh yeah, please! that's more than welcome :) [08:48] didrocks, doing [08:48] thanks :) [08:48] seb128, it's for this bug: #437963 [08:48] Launchpad bug 437963 in Ubuntu Translations "Untranslatable strings in Plugin manager" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/437963 [08:49] njpatel, thanks === OdyX` is now known as OdyX === Guest74521 is now known as Zic === chrisccoulson_ is now known as chrisccoulson === Guest27145 is now known as jelmer_ [10:32] Hi all... I'd like to get started in ubuntu development, i've read the howto (UbuntuDevelopment @ wiki) and i'm looking what I can do, but I find it quite difficult to get started... Is there someone who could help me with getting started? I'm also quite unsure about what teams I need to join and what steps I need to make before I can help developing... I'd like to help bugfixing, but I've not enough knowledge to help with that :( [10:37] any archive admin available to figure out why bug 824913 exists? :) [10:37] Snicksie, I would suggest you check out http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/ [10:37] uh, no ubottu [10:38] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/824913 [10:39] will read that, dholbach :) === apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [11:52] dholbach, i'm afraid i dont really have enough experience with programming languages like c/cpp/python, which seems to be the most used languages in ubuntu... do you have any helpful information how to learn that? :$ I only 'know' the basics (as in really basic) from cpp and I have some experience with java / php/ js / etc... [11:53] Snicksie, you could just start trying to fix very small issues [11:53] i've tried to search for 'simple' bitesize bugs, but the simple ones seem already taken :( [12:02] i'm wondering where to ask to get my package into main repositories [12:03] available at https://launchpad.net/~richard-sellam/+archive/ppa , although will need some work to merge with debian testing [12:16] lenios__: a) you should mention *which* package and b) packages don't go into main easily, a package being in mai means canonical *wants* to support it, which is hardly the case for just any package out there. I suspect you want your package in universe/multiverse instead [12:17] oops, i meant universe [12:17] package is ocsinventory-agent [12:18] better place to ask is #ubuntu-motu [12:19] ohh, nice, libunity5 :-/ [12:19] doko: rebuilds were uploaded [12:19] * pitti is waiting for powerpc to catch up to drop libcamel and libnotify1 [12:20] I'll have a look at the libevent-1.4-2 rdepends [12:31] :( [12:45] barry, could you have a look at bug 621242 for the dh_python2 changes? [12:45] Launchpad bug 621242 in mocker (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[MIR] mocker" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/621242 === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow === TheDaniel0108 is now known as Daniel0108 === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === davidm` is now known as davidm [14:41] doko: mp submitted for bug 621242 to switch mocker to dh_python2. care to review? i'm happy to upload it if it looks okay to you [14:41] Launchpad bug 621242 in mocker (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[MIR] mocker" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/621242 [14:46] barry, looks ok [15:04] doko: thanks, pushing [15:54] cjwatson: hi there, might you happen to remember why the chain.c32 is needed to netboot some systems from the first drive since maverick? [15:56] cr3: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/syslinux/+bug/625383 has all I know [15:56] Launchpad bug 625383 in Release Notes for Ubuntu "grub hangs at early booting after handoff from PXE" [Undecided,Fix released] [15:58] cjwatson: ah, so it's been fix released after maverick, so I shouldn't need the workaround anymore for natty and oneiric! [15:58] err [15:59] no, the release notes task is fix-released, everything else is wont-fix - just use chain.c32 [15:59] cjwatson: thanks for pointing that out, cheers! [15:59] investigating what went wrong with localboot is a rathole and probably impossible without access to the PXE BIOS code [16:00] or infeasible anyway [16:00] chain.c32 means it doesn't matter if this particular corner of the PXE BIOS is buggy [16:03] cjwatson: might it be worthwhile to make that assumption the default behavior, ie assuming bugginess which is probably quite common when it comes to BIOS code :) === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan === beuno is now known as beuno-lunch [16:05] cr3: there's no default, you just write LOCALBOOT or COM32 chain.c32 (or whatever the exact rune is) depending on what you want to happen; I don't think it would be appropriate to turn one into a magic shim for the other, no [16:06] cjwatson: or here's another idea: how about we make the chain.c32 file from the syslinux package directly available on the alternate and server images to enable sysadmins when netbooting? [16:06] hggdh`: ^^^ do you think that would help folks? [16:08] yes, it would. It makes no sense to find oneself with an ISO that will not PXE-boot [16:08] like what happened with me... [16:09] cr3: sure, it's tiny enough. done [16:09] cjwatson: many thanks, you've just made a few server folks quite happy :) [16:11] cjwatson: thank you, from the bottom of my heart, and all that :-) === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [16:42] cjwatson: hey [16:43] cjwatson: we talked yesterday about seeds, right? [16:43] hi [16:43] yep [16:43] cjwatson: may I ask you something about that ? [16:43] sure [16:43] cjwatson: can I build my own ubuntu image, with custom seeds from me? If yes, how? [16:44] probably simplest to direct you to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization [16:45] well, maybe, that's not a build from scratch [16:45] for >= oneiric you can use the live-build package [16:45] cjwatson: ? [16:46] and as far as seeds go, you'd update ubuntu-meta to point to your seeds and put that in a local repository [16:46] cjwatson: there is no manual, for using seeds to build an image [16:46] no, there is not [16:46] afaik [16:46] honestly, though, I don't do this kind of thing because I have all the central infrastructure to hand. I'm sure there are others who can help you much more usefully than I can [16:46] :/ [16:46] cjwatson: which infrastructure? [16:46] the sort of people who build derivative distributions of Ubuntu [16:47] live-build, livecd-rootfs, the Ubuntu cdimage code [16:47] thx === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === beuno-lunch is now known as beuno === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [17:23] SpamapS, have you tried to re-create the users issues in bug 839595 ? [17:23] Launchpad bug 839595 in Release Notes for Ubuntu "failsafe.conf's 30 second time out is too low" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/839595 [17:24] you can probably avoid lots of back and forth if you just boot a vm without eth0 (or you could add an 'auto eth1' entry) [17:26] smoser: no, I couldn't recreate it. X starts fine for me. [17:26] smoser: trying to figure out what is blocking him [17:34] SpamapS: I'd appreciate it if you could move clamav to natty-updates now. It's verification done. [17:34] ScottK: I'll make a sweep in a bit, Thanks for the heads up. [17:35] Thanks. [17:35] barry: how do you get around bzr merge-package refusing to work due to uncommitted local changes from doing quilt pop -a first? I don't particularly want to add a spurious commit just for popping everything off before a merge. === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [18:48] could anyone sponsor this unity fix https://code.launchpad.net/~om26er/ubuntu/oneiric/unity/unity-fix-840285/+merge/74854 the issue is quite important I believe [18:56] heh, keybuk caused quite a stir [19:03] Oh? [19:03] highvoltage: where did you see that? I've had IRL discussion about it today, but seen nothing about it on the lists / planet since [19:03] About what? [19:04] * ScottK is all confused [19:04] 20:56 < highvoltage> heh, keybuk caused quite a stir [19:04] right, but what was the stir? [19:04] proposed monthly releases [19:04] ScottK: http://netsplit.com/2011/09/08/new-ubuntu-release-process/ [19:04] it was just on Planet, slashdot and LWN :) [19:04] Thanks. [19:09] yeah, on slashdot, LWN, linux.com, etc [19:09] It is an interesting proposal :) [19:09] lots of noise outside Ubuntu, none inside :) [19:09] and I was overhearing people in the office talking about it too [19:09] heh, same here. [19:10] servers bit especially [19:10] what would happen, etc [19:11] Just add one more layer: "Really effing stable." [19:12] I think he's totally right on the problem. Not sure I agree with his solution. [19:14] ScottK: yep, all the reasonable people I've spoken to about it said pretty much the same thing. things could be done a lot better, but there's not yet a nice solution that really fixes the current problems nicely without introducing other nasty ones [19:16] I think if things like Unity had their own feature planning/release schedule that were shifted earlier than Ubuntu's it could be sovled. [19:17] If, to pick an example, Unity were developed on a schedule similar to Gnome/KDEs then they could start on feature work for release +1 as soon as Ubuntu's feature freeze hits. [19:17] They need to decouple their planning from the Ubuntu planning schedule. [19:17] Basically "Development" and "Distribution Integration" are two different things. [19:18] the proposal is similar to the Chrome/Firefox schedule [19:18] Trying to do development on the distro integration schedule doesn't make for a happy solution. [19:18] I think he underestimates the complexity of what he's proposing. [19:18] I don't think it scales from one package to 20,000. [19:57] om26er: is unity not using a patch system? [19:58] micahg, its using quilt, everyone was just patching the source directly but I could try with quilt if required [19:59] om26er: well, I can only speak in generalities, but usually in the distro, if there's a patch system, we use it, but you should probably ask the -desktop people === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [20:08] slangasek: what do you think about this discussion in bug 839595 .. It would appear that at least a few users have an auto interface setup that is causing their boot to be much slower. [20:08] Launchpad bug 839595 in Release Notes for Ubuntu "failsafe.conf's 30 second time out is too low" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/839595 [20:21] slangasek, did i read somewhere that the 700mb oversized mark was wrong on c.u.c? that it's actually like a meg or two more that are allowed? mythbuntu amd64 is oversized to like 701mb, so i was hoping wouldn't need to fix that. === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === yofel_ is now known as yofel [21:48] I am trying to compile network-manager-applet, but it depends on 'NetworkManager >= 0.9.1'. Where can I get this package when the most recent version in main repositories is 0.9.0? [21:59] afeder_: why don't you compile NetworkManager while you're at it then? [22:00] i wouldnt know how :/ [22:01] oh i guess i would pull it from LP too... [22:01] * afeder_ is slow but gets there eventually [22:01] thanks [22:49] sbeattie: it seems odd that 'bzr merge-package' doesn't have a --force option. I use 'bzr merge --force' for that kind of thing and it works fine, although I'm probably missing some subtle bit of magic from merge-package. [22:57] Does anyone know if NetworkManager for some reason edits /etc/network/interfaces ? bug 839595 has some discussion going on that suggests it might, but I don't think thats how it works. [22:57] Launchpad bug 839595 in Release Notes for Ubuntu "failsafe.conf's 30 second time out is too low" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/839595 [23:00] SpamapS: I was just running out for the weekend, but NM doesn't edit /e/n/i [23:00] it reads it though [23:01] (unless you use Debian's NM, which touches /e/n/i as part of the maintainer scripts, we don't have those) [23:01] cyphermox_: thanks... still running my tests, but good to know that it *shouldn't* [23:02] give me a second, I'll make sure I can stay online while on the road (I'm not driving ;) [23:08] ok, checking that bug report now [23:08] cyphermox_: thanks.. I really think its mostly just left over auto's in /etc/network/interfaces, and not something people w/ normal configurations should see [23:09] right [23:09] if /e/n/i still contains an entry with 'auto ', nm will ignore it [23:09] Right, whereas the new boot procedure won't.. it will try and wait for it. [23:10] Which is what we *want*.. but may not be what people *expect* [23:10] sorry,, not sure I follow there [23:10] We made a change to the boot.. [23:10] so that runlevel 2 waits for all the auto interfaces to be up [23:10] and it looks for entries with auto? [23:10] since most desktops/laptops should have no auto's [23:10] ok [23:10] right [23:11] afaik it shouldn't contain it on new installs, and it's been the case for long enough that the vast majority of upgrades wouldn't have them either [23:11] but 2 users , including our own RAOF, have complained because this suddenly causes their boot to take 2 extra minutes [23:11] I can think of some vm setups "require" the use of /e/n/i, for instance for bridginh [23:11] gah, I really can't type today [23:12] I'm wondering if its worth making do-release-upgrade warn them or something. [23:12] bridging problems actually are a big part of why we're doing this [23:12] ok [23:12] If we don't wait, auto-vm's can't use the bridge for instance. [23:12] yup [23:13] Its the typical gripe when you remove a race condition.. things go slower. ;) [23:13] so what's the thing about NM changing /e/n/i then? [23:13] hehe [23:13] cyphermox_: I think its just FUD [23:13] oh ok [23:17] I know it reads the file, i guess it *could* be the case that it touches it, but I seriously doubt it. I haven't seen this kind of changes in that part of the code pass by, and I'm pretty sure someone would have noticed and complained [23:17] given we've already complained about touching /etc/hosts, and I think /etc/resolv.conf may still be an issue, I don't think changing /e/n/i would fly, dcbw already knows about it === Lutin is now known as Guest8209 [23:20] pitti: how will the retracer handle the case where a bug with a duplicate signature is marked as a duplicate of another without a signature? [23:21] pitti: bug 845093 is an example of what I'm talking about [23:21] Launchpad bug 841753 in bcmwl (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #845093 package bcmwl-kernel-source 5.100.82.38 bdcom-0ubuntu3 failed to install/upgrade: bcmwl kernel module failed to build (Makefile: No such file or directory)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/841753 [23:21] SpamapS: could some of this delay come from the isc-dhcp delay changes, if those landed? === cyphermox_ is now known as cyphermox [23:36] cyphermox: yes and no.. [23:36] cyphermox: yes because the delay is now "to infinity and beyond", but no because failsafe.conf boots the system after 120 seconds.. so its really failsafe's problem now. :) [23:36] ok [23:37] failsafe.conf or whatever brings up the interfaces to specify a dhcp timeout? [23:38] well, taking off now, ttyl [23:50] cyphermox: thanks for the insight. :)