[15:54] <slangasek> SpamapS: bug #839595> well, I don't see anything for it except for release noting
[18:55] <micahg> cjwatson: I actually wanted to ask someone about ichthux-* packages, the seed branches no longer exist and I can't seem to get ahold of anyone who cares about the packages, also the meta package has some rdepends on obsolete stuff, I was wondering what the policy for dropping that type of stuff is
[19:32] <lfaraone> Does UDS sponsorship extend to Saturday morning, Nov 5? Or do we have to check out on Friday?
[19:33] <nigelb> lfaraone: Saturday Morning usually.
[19:33] <nigelb> Friday night is *the party*
[20:35] <ScottK> micahg: txwikinger is who you should talk to about it.
[20:35] <ScottK> aka Ralph Janke.
[20:35] <micahg> ScottK: I subscribed him to a bug a while back, but IIRC, he said he wasn't involved anymore
[20:36] <ScottK> If he said that, then they should all just be removed since he was the last one that cared about ichthux.
[20:40] <micahg> ScottK: ah, no, he said he'd update the seeds which no longer exist, will try to talk to him
[20:41] <ScottK> OK.
[21:10] <cjwatson> micahg: meh, I found it easier to just fix it because removing something belonging to a specific derivative smells of politics and I hate politics
[21:11] <micahg> cjwatson: ok, I just e-mailed the last known contact about it, we'll see what happens
[21:12] <cjwatson> fixing it took about a tenth of the time that having to have a debate with people would've taken, too :)
[21:12] <cjwatson> so yeah
[21:12] <micahg> cjwatson: right, but the meta package is still missing branches as well
[21:13] <cjwatson> yeah, well, I didn't really want to think about everything at once; I was blitzing Ubuntu-specific packages with build failures
[21:33] <Nitesh> A bug in software center or something else in oneiric is really troubling me. After I  launch software center, every screenshot or screencast I make gets corrupted. Here is a video : http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=2nasitt&s=7
[21:35] <philps> is this the right place to ask about kernel modules?
[22:17] <broder> how does apport avoid racing with the crashed process's parent? i'm getting an X crash, but by the time apport tries digging around in /proc, the process is already gone
[22:17] <broder> (this is on natty, so X is being supervised by gdm)
[22:28] <Rovanion> Will it be possible to select input method or keyboard layout in the version of LightDM that's released in 11.10?
[22:34] <RAOF> Rovanion: I don't believe that feature is planned for 11.10; as far as I know, various people have gone "will it do this" without really making a case for *why* they want to do that.
[22:36] <Rovanion> RAOF: It is important that each user can type their password with the same keyboard layout which they use when logged in, otherwise they will not be able to log in.
[22:36] <RAOF> Rovanion: Is the keyboard layout not a physical constraint, though?
[22:37] <Rovanion> RAOF: I'm not sure I understand
[22:37] <RAOF> Rovanion: The physical keyboard in front of the user will have a certain layout; is that layout not necessarily the correct one for LightDM?
[22:39] <broder> hey RAOF - is there a trick i'm missing for getting apport to capture a backtrace from X?
[22:39] <Rovanion> RAOF: Not neccicerily no. In france for example it's a mix of AZERTY and QWERTY. In other countries it's common to use both Latin and cyrillic alphabets
[22:40] <lifeless> Rovanion: you seem to be talking about something different
[22:41] <Rovanion> RAOF: If the computer is installed to use Latin caracters at login, a user with a password in cyrillic is absolutely unable to log in. In a school this situation is possible to occur
[22:41] <lifeless> Rovanion: RAOF is saying 'the keyboard, whatever it is, is fixed', you are saying 'different people in one country may have different keyboards'
[22:42] <Rovanion> lifeless: No, different persons on the same computer with the same keyboard use different keyboard layouts. The layouts are in software, if you recall you could change the language and layout in GDM 2.32
[22:43] <lifeless> so the use case is 'It is possible that no single keyboard layout will permit all user son a shared machine to enter their passwords'
[22:43] <lifeless> s/user son/users on/
[22:44] <lifeless> s/use case/problem statement/
[22:45] <Rovanion> lifeless: Yes, the case with Latin/Cyrillic is the absolutely worst case where it becomes absolutely impossible to log in. A less worse problem but maybe more common in your country is Dvorak/QWERTY where the user would have to find a picture of the layout or ask someone in order to log in.
[22:47] <Rovanion> In asking someone he would then more or less reveal his password. It's also _very_ inconvenient.
[22:51] <desrt> was anyone here hit by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/832513 and able to provide more feedback?
[23:15] <RAOF> broder: Sorry about that; unreliable network.  The short answer is "apport _should_ catch X crashes the same way that it does for everything else, but doesn't".  The long answer is similar, but includes a bunch of cases where apport does quite happily catch and retrace X crashes.
[23:15] <broder> haha, ok. that sounds roughly consistent with my findings :)
[23:15] <broder> after asking i realized that since this particular crash is reproducible, i should just run X under gdb
[23:16] <RAOF> I'm not entirely sure how to debug that, too.
[23:17] <Rovanion> RAOF: You disconnected when I further explained the use-case, should I resend it?
[23:18] <RAOF> Rovanion: Yes, please.
[23:20] <Rovanion> RAOF The situation is different persons on the same computer/loginsystem with the same keyboard. The layouts are in software, if you recall you could change the language and layout in GDM 2.32.
[23:21] <RAOF> Rovanion: Yes, I know it was possible.
[23:21] <Rovanion> RAOF: A case  with Latin/Cyrillic layout is the absolutely worst case where it becomes absolutely impossible to log in. A less worse problem but maybe more common in your country is Dvorak/QWERTY where the user would have to find a picture of the layout or ask someone in order to log in.
[23:22] <Rovanion> RAOF: The reason I mention it is because lifeless asked for clearification, so I assumed that also you had misunderstood
[23:22] <Rovanion> Or rather, that I had expressed myself unclearly
[23:23] <RAOF> It's common for people to have both a Latin and Cyrillic layout set in software, and switch between them?  That would be necessary to fix.
[23:24] <RAOF> Probably by means of taking the existing keyboard indicator from the session and running it in unity-greeter, I guess.
[23:24] <broder> RAOF: shared desktop where some people use dvorak and some use querty
[23:24] <Rovanion> RAOF: The password could be in different layouts for different users
[23:24] <broder> i know that would be an issue at my alma mater
[23:25] <RAOF> broder: Really?  They should consider it extra password obfuscation, then :)
[23:25] <broder> RAOF: sure. we have shared workstations, and i know someone who used dvorak. we all laughed at him :-P
[23:25] <broder> (uses - he still does)
[23:26]  * RAOF notes that he uses dvorak 
[23:26]  * Rovanion also uses dvorak
[23:26] <Rovanion> Well not american dvorak but
[23:29] <Rovanion> RAOF: The easy and always working route it to make LightDM have a setting like GDM 2.32 to switch layout in the DM for that user permanently. One could also pull the layout that's used in the active session, the problem being which one to choose if the user has more than one active.
[23:29] <RAOF> Rovanion: Thanks for that use-case.  There have been various discussions on ubuntu-desktop@, but as far as I can tell they've been "why are you removing this" rather than actually presenting what will fail to work without having it.
[23:30] <RAOF> Rovanion: Right.  There's already a couple of indicators in unity-greeter, though, and giving it the same UI as the session would be nice for consistency.
[23:31] <ion> Is the nasty dot grid going to be removed soon from lightdm’s background image?
[23:32] <RAOF> Nasty?  I quite like it.  I thought it was swanky design.
[23:32] <ion> Looks like a development helper for element placement that someone forgot to remove from the local tree before uploading. :-)
[23:33] <ion> (I sincerely thought it was that at first, but then it just stayed there.)
[23:34] <Rovanion> RAOF: Yes, all my desktop installations that are shared with other people need this to work satisfactory. Haha oh so many problems I've had with Windows XP. The DM would inherit the layout used in the last session. In order to switch between the two layouts commonly used on the computer there were two dummy-accounts without password that you logged into before you were able to type in your
[23:34] <Rovanion> password
[23:34] <RAOF> Hah!
[23:36] <Rovanion> ion: You are not alone. The seccond comment on this page thinks the same: http://iloveubuntu.net/lightdm-unity-greeter-oneiric-ocelots-awesome-default-display-manager The third commenter apparently thinks it represents organisation and community.
[23:42] <lifeless> RAOF: my statement was:
[23:42] <lifeless> 10:43 < lifeless> so the use case is 'It is possible that no single keyboard layout will permit all user son a shared machine to enter their passwords'
[23:42] <lifeless> 10:43 < lifeless> s/user son/users on/
[23:42] <lifeless> 10:43 < lifeless> s/use case/problem statement/
[23:43] <RAOF> lifeless: Right.
[23:43] <Rovanion> RAOF: My bed is screeming my nime right now. I hope my school in Khazakstan is a good enough use-case to include layout switching
[23:43] <RAOF> Rovanion: I'll bring that up on the desktop mailing list; this seems to be something that we haven't yet thought about.
[23:44] <Rovanion> RAOF: Great!