BluesKajHey all11:10
=== ryanakca_ is now known as ryanakca
=== chuck_ is now known as zul
=== dscassel_ is now known as dscassel
BluesKajHow Now Brown Cow , dscassel :)17:18
BluesKajWhat's New With You ?17:18
dscasselBluesKaj: Busy. Work, Kwartzlab... not a lot of Ubuntu stuff since the Global Jam, sadly.18:08
BluesKajdesktop wars ?18:11
dscasselYou mean like Gnome vs Unity vs KDE?18:59
dscassel...vs Openbox vs LXDE vs monad...18:59
genii-aroundDid I drop into the middle of a desktop environment debate? ;)19:00
dscasselgenii-around: twm forever!19:01
genii-aroundThats a pretty old one! When I first saw linux, the main desktops were twm, fvwm, enlightenment, .... kde was at version 1.219:03
BluesKajdscassel, no unity vs gnome3 vs gnome shell vs classic gnome vs .... who knows what :)19:05
cyphermoxdscassel: ratpoison!19:45
genii-aroundI keep meaning to try that one... gui without a mouse sounds interesting19:54
dscasselBluesKaj: Same thing. :)20:24
BluesKajno dscassel , I meant within  gnome20:25
dscasselcyphermox: I like the *idea* of tiling window managers, but I'm a bit too wedded to my mouse.20:25
cyphermoxmake no mistake, I can't use it either20:26
* cyphermox uses unity, and I consider it somewhat part of my contract to do so20:26
dscasselI've been using a mouse since 1988.  I *need* it.20:26
dscasselcyphermox: heh. :)20:26
cyphermoxalthough that goes along with using xubuntu and kubuntu :)20:27
dscasselBluesKaj: Yeah, I know.  I just roll my eyes, really.20:27
dscasselPeople should use what they like. Full stop.20:27
cyphermoxjust mentioning that all three installed at the same time on the same system is absolutely doable, and usually works pretty well20:28
cyphermoxwith the exception that my notifications are horrendously disfigured in Unity if the xubuntu stuff is installed.. they start growing buttons and all20:28
dscasselIt looks like gnome-panel is going to be pretty stock standard, though.20:28
dscasselIt's a shame there's not an easy way to get back the "Classic" Ubuntu interface people are used to.20:29
dscasselI'm sure that'll come, though.20:29
BluesKajyeah, I started , on the job with various instrument application control software that used guis ...and the lovely orange on black/blcak on orange monitor colours :)20:29
genii-aroundIt's making it hard to convince people to use Ubuntu20:29
cyphermoxoh, there is20:29
dscasselgenii-around: What is? That it changes?20:30
cyphermoxdscassel: install gnome-session-fallback; you get the "Classic" gnome thing, except it's the new fallback from gnome-shell, so it's the gnome-panel with clock in the middle and all of that20:30
dscasselIt'll stop changing soon. Transitions are hard.20:30
dscasselcyphermox: Cool.20:30
genii-arounddscassel: Unity for desktop choice mostly20:30
dscasselgenii-around: I actually like Unity.  So I scratch my head at that one.20:31
dscasselI agree that presenting people with a choice straight off the bat is a turn-off.20:31
dscasselPeople don't know what a "desktop environment" is, far less how to pick one.20:32
dscasselThe answer, I guess, is to talk to them first.  Find out what they want.  If they want to resurrect an old XP machine and don't like change, maybe lubuntu is the answer.20:33
genii-aroundHeh, yes.20:33
dscasselIf they like flashy GUIs and Windows 7, maybe kubuntu.  If they're a Mac fan, Unity.20:33
BluesKaja stable DE is best as default , not one that is as buggy as Unity20:33
dscasselBluesKaj: cyphermox would be interested in any bugs you might have.20:34
cyphermoxprobably, yes20:34
dscassel11.04 unity is a 1.0 release.20:34
dscasselIt's not going to stay buggy.20:34
cyphermoxeven saying it's buggy tends to be usage specific20:34
dscassel11.04 unity users are, for better of for worse, beta testers.20:35
cyphermoxI found it was usable, despite the issues20:35
dscasselI use it every day.  Even now, it's much better on 11.04 than at release.20:35
genii-aroundI couldn't get it on my netbook due to Intel graphics card20:35
BluesKajdscassel, I don't rub gnome ...anymore ...tried it, but from the queries on #ubuntu about unity fixes . it's not difficult to see Unity has a lot of bugs20:35
dscasselI'm not going to begrudge anyone running KDE if that's what they prefer.20:36
dscasselI'd hear it from txwikinger if I did anyway. :)20:36
txwikingerdscassel: what did you do now? ;)20:37
dscasselI'm telling people Unity isn't so bad. :)20:37
* txwikinger does not give opinions on things he does not use20:38
dscasselgenii-around: Unity 2D is coming.  Driver support for compiz isn't really unity's fault...20:38
genii-aroundIt's just frustrating, mostly.20:39
dscasselYeah. Beta testing often is. :)20:39
* txwikinger thinks Gnome and Unity are going through the same user issue as KDE did when changing to KDE420:39
* txwikinger wonders how long desktop wars will go on... aren't we getting into the age of the cloud?20:44
BluesKajgoogle is working on that...wonder when it will be officilaly released20:45
txwikingerNot only google20:45
BluesKajwho else ?20:50
genii-aroundAmazon for one20:51
BluesKajwhat does amazon call their cloud OS?20:52
cyphermoxAmazon allows you to choose the OS you put on the instances20:53
cyphermoxotherwise I guess it's just called AWS20:53
txwikingerrackspace does a lot of cloud stuff20:53
txwikingerCanadian Cloud Computing20:53
txwikingerWell.. and then there is Ubuntu server with lots of cloud stuff20:55
* txwikinger also does cloud stuff20:56
dscasselThen there's tablets and smartphone OSes.21:02
dscasselAs I see it, everything is up for grabs.21:02
khoover...isn't cloud computing what people left behind to go to the desktop model?21:02
dscasselThe only thing for certain is computing a few years from now won't look anything like it does now.21:03
dscasselkhoover: It's the circle of life. :)21:03
khooverdscassel, i dislike it already21:03
khoovermy hardware is my hardware, no sharing it with god knows how many other people.21:04
dscasselkhoover: I, for one, am glad that free software allows one to tailor their computing any way they want. :)21:05
dscasselMac users, for example, don't have the option of saying "Nuts to all this cloud stuff!"21:05
dscasselThey're getting it whether they like it or not.21:05
txwikingerdscassel: No.. there was no cloud21:06
txwikingerthere was only one server21:06
khooverdscassel, see, that i can agree on.21:06
txwikingerand the communication lines were very expensive21:06
txwikingerI think the cloud has a lot more opportunities for free software21:07
txwikingerMost cloud stuff is linux21:07
khoovertxwikinger, weren't clients, for the most part, either local to the server or run over dial-up?21:07
txwikingerkhoover: well.. first it was always one server.. and dumm terminals21:08
txwikingerwith very long lines21:08
txwikingervery slow.. very unreliable21:08
txwikingerwell.. before that were punch cards actually21:08
txwikingereven slower and even more unreliable21:08
* txwikinger ask for a roll call who all has used the kermit terminal software before21:09
txwikingerOr who has ever use EBSDIC21:09
khooverin all likelihood, i wasn't born then.21:10
txwikingeryoung crowd :D21:10
genii-aroundtxwikinger: Yes, used kermit :)21:11
txwikingergenii-around: ;)21:12
genii-aroundIn fact our FreeNet server here still has CLI login for users where they can use Lynx, Pine, etc21:12
dscasseltxwikinger: I got on at vt100.21:12
txwikingerkermit was fantastic.. implicit EBSDIC <-> ASCII conversion and everything21:12
dscasselProbably vt220 or something, actually.21:12
txwikingerdscassel: Ever wrote software for an IBM 360?21:13
genii-aroundBleh, batches21:13
dscasseltxwikinger: Nope.21:13
khoovertxwikinger, i believe i tried to make one in minecraft once.21:13
txwikingerthat was a drag.. those system call were criminal21:13
dscasselAll SunOS/Solaris in school.21:13
genii-aroundOur school had a few cool old computers like a PDP9 and PDP1121:14
txwikingerAlso. only block devices.. and those registers ... awful21:14
genii-aroundLater on my other school had IRIX/SGI21:14
txwikingerwe were all happy when we got the first risc computer.. but we had to rewrite all the software to be able to run on risc21:15
khooversorry, i tried to make EDVAC in minecraft21:15
khoovercouldn't finish reading the specification. >_<21:15

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