| BluesKaj | Hey all | 11:10 |
|---|---|---|
| === ryanakca_ is now known as ryanakca | ||
| === chuck_ is now known as zul | ||
| dscassel_ | Moo. | 16:43 |
| === dscassel_ is now known as dscassel | ||
| BluesKaj | How Now Brown Cow , dscassel :) | 17:18 |
| BluesKaj | What's New With You ? | 17:18 |
| dscassel | BluesKaj: Busy. Work, Kwartzlab... not a lot of Ubuntu stuff since the Global Jam, sadly. | 18:08 |
| BluesKaj | desktop wars ? | 18:11 |
| dscassel | You mean like Gnome vs Unity vs KDE? | 18:59 |
| dscassel | ...vs Openbox vs LXDE vs monad... | 18:59 |
| genii-around | Did I drop into the middle of a desktop environment debate? ;) | 19:00 |
| dscassel | genii-around: twm forever! | 19:01 |
| genii-around | Thats a pretty old one! When I first saw linux, the main desktops were twm, fvwm, enlightenment, .... kde was at version 1.2 | 19:03 |
| BluesKaj | dscassel, no unity vs gnome3 vs gnome shell vs classic gnome vs .... who knows what :) | 19:05 |
| cyphermox | dscassel: ratpoison! | 19:45 |
| genii-around | I keep meaning to try that one... gui without a mouse sounds interesting | 19:54 |
| dscassel | BluesKaj: Same thing. :) | 20:24 |
| BluesKaj | no dscassel , I meant within gnome | 20:25 |
| dscassel | cyphermox: I like the *idea* of tiling window managers, but I'm a bit too wedded to my mouse. | 20:25 |
| cyphermox | make no mistake, I can't use it either | 20:26 |
| * cyphermox uses unity, and I consider it somewhat part of my contract to do so | 20:26 | |
| dscassel | I've been using a mouse since 1988. I *need* it. | 20:26 |
| dscassel | cyphermox: heh. :) | 20:26 |
| cyphermox | ;) | 20:26 |
| cyphermox | although that goes along with using xubuntu and kubuntu :) | 20:27 |
| dscassel | BluesKaj: Yeah, I know. I just roll my eyes, really. | 20:27 |
| dscassel | People should use what they like. Full stop. | 20:27 |
| cyphermox | absolutely | 20:27 |
| cyphermox | just mentioning that all three installed at the same time on the same system is absolutely doable, and usually works pretty well | 20:28 |
| dscassel | Yeah. | 20:28 |
| cyphermox | with the exception that my notifications are horrendously disfigured in Unity if the xubuntu stuff is installed.. they start growing buttons and all | 20:28 |
| dscassel | It looks like gnome-panel is going to be pretty stock standard, though. | 20:28 |
| dscassel | It's a shame there's not an easy way to get back the "Classic" Ubuntu interface people are used to. | 20:29 |
| dscassel | I'm sure that'll come, though. | 20:29 |
| BluesKaj | yeah, I started , on the job with various instrument application control software that used guis ...and the lovely orange on black/blcak on orange monitor colours :) | 20:29 |
| genii-around | It's making it hard to convince people to use Ubuntu | 20:29 |
| cyphermox | oh, there is | 20:29 |
| dscassel | genii-around: What is? That it changes? | 20:30 |
| cyphermox | dscassel: install gnome-session-fallback; you get the "Classic" gnome thing, except it's the new fallback from gnome-shell, so it's the gnome-panel with clock in the middle and all of that | 20:30 |
| dscassel | It'll stop changing soon. Transitions are hard. | 20:30 |
| dscassel | cyphermox: Cool. | 20:30 |
| genii-around | dscassel: Unity for desktop choice mostly | 20:30 |
| dscassel | genii-around: I actually like Unity. So I scratch my head at that one. | 20:31 |
| dscassel | I agree that presenting people with a choice straight off the bat is a turn-off. | 20:31 |
| dscassel | People don't know what a "desktop environment" is, far less how to pick one. | 20:32 |
| dscassel | The answer, I guess, is to talk to them first. Find out what they want. If they want to resurrect an old XP machine and don't like change, maybe lubuntu is the answer. | 20:33 |
| genii-around | Heh, yes. | 20:33 |
| dscassel | If they like flashy GUIs and Windows 7, maybe kubuntu. If they're a Mac fan, Unity. | 20:33 |
| BluesKaj | a stable DE is best as default , not one that is as buggy as Unity | 20:33 |
| dscassel | BluesKaj: cyphermox would be interested in any bugs you might have. | 20:34 |
| cyphermox | probably, yes | 20:34 |
| dscassel | 11.04 unity is a 1.0 release. | 20:34 |
| dscassel | It's not going to stay buggy. | 20:34 |
| cyphermox | even saying it's buggy tends to be usage specific | 20:34 |
| dscassel | 11.04 unity users are, for better of for worse, beta testers. | 20:35 |
| cyphermox | I found it was usable, despite the issues | 20:35 |
| dscassel | I use it every day. Even now, it's much better on 11.04 than at release. | 20:35 |
| genii-around | I couldn't get it on my netbook due to Intel graphics card | 20:35 |
| BluesKaj | dscassel, I don't rub gnome ...anymore ...tried it, but from the queries on #ubuntu about unity fixes . it's not difficult to see Unity has a lot of bugs | 20:35 |
| BluesKaj | run | 20:36 |
| dscassel | I'm not going to begrudge anyone running KDE if that's what they prefer. | 20:36 |
| dscassel | I'd hear it from txwikinger if I did anyway. :) | 20:36 |
| txwikinger | dscassel: what did you do now? ;) | 20:37 |
| dscassel | I'm telling people Unity isn't so bad. :) | 20:37 |
| * txwikinger does not give opinions on things he does not use | 20:38 | |
| dscassel | genii-around: Unity 2D is coming. Driver support for compiz isn't really unity's fault... | 20:38 |
| genii-around | It's just frustrating, mostly. | 20:39 |
| dscassel | Yeah. Beta testing often is. :) | 20:39 |
| * txwikinger thinks Gnome and Unity are going through the same user issue as KDE did when changing to KDE4 | 20:39 | |
| * txwikinger wonders how long desktop wars will go on... aren't we getting into the age of the cloud? | 20:44 | |
| BluesKaj | google is working on that...wonder when it will be officilaly released | 20:45 |
| txwikinger | Not only google | 20:45 |
| BluesKaj | who else ? | 20:50 |
| genii-around | Amazon for one | 20:51 |
| BluesKaj | what does amazon call their cloud OS? | 20:52 |
| cyphermox | Amazon allows you to choose the OS you put on the instances | 20:53 |
| cyphermox | otherwise I guess it's just called AWS | 20:53 |
| txwikinger | rackspace does a lot of cloud stuff | 20:53 |
| txwikinger | Canadian Cloud Computing | 20:53 |
| txwikinger | Well.. and then there is Ubuntu server with lots of cloud stuff | 20:55 |
| * txwikinger also does cloud stuff | 20:56 | |
| dscassel | Then there's tablets and smartphone OSes. | 21:02 |
| dscassel | As I see it, everything is up for grabs. | 21:02 |
| khoover | ...isn't cloud computing what people left behind to go to the desktop model? | 21:02 |
| dscassel | The only thing for certain is computing a few years from now won't look anything like it does now. | 21:03 |
| khoover | server-client? | 21:03 |
| dscassel | khoover: It's the circle of life. :) | 21:03 |
| khoover | dscassel, i dislike it already | 21:03 |
| khoover | my hardware is my hardware, no sharing it with god knows how many other people. | 21:04 |
| dscassel | khoover: I, for one, am glad that free software allows one to tailor their computing any way they want. :) | 21:05 |
| dscassel | Mac users, for example, don't have the option of saying "Nuts to all this cloud stuff!" | 21:05 |
| dscassel | They're getting it whether they like it or not. | 21:05 |
| txwikinger | dscassel: No.. there was no cloud | 21:06 |
| txwikinger | there was only one server | 21:06 |
| khoover | dscassel, see, that i can agree on. | 21:06 |
| txwikinger | and the communication lines were very expensive | 21:06 |
| txwikinger | I think the cloud has a lot more opportunities for free software | 21:07 |
| txwikinger | Most cloud stuff is linux | 21:07 |
| khoover | txwikinger, weren't clients, for the most part, either local to the server or run over dial-up? | 21:07 |
| dscassel | *nods* | 21:07 |
| txwikinger | khoover: well.. first it was always one server.. and dumm terminals | 21:08 |
| txwikinger | dumb | 21:08 |
| txwikinger | with very long lines | 21:08 |
| txwikinger | very slow.. very unreliable | 21:08 |
| txwikinger | well.. before that were punch cards actually | 21:08 |
| txwikinger | even slower and even more unreliable | 21:08 |
| * txwikinger ask for a roll call who all has used the kermit terminal software before | 21:09 | |
| txwikinger | Or who has ever use EBSDIC | 21:09 |
| txwikinger | +d | 21:09 |
| khoover | in all likelihood, i wasn't born then. | 21:10 |
| txwikinger | young crowd :D | 21:10 |
| genii-around | txwikinger: Yes, used kermit :) | 21:11 |
| txwikinger | genii-around: ;) | 21:12 |
| genii-around | In fact our FreeNet server here still has CLI login for users where they can use Lynx, Pine, etc | 21:12 |
| dscassel | txwikinger: I got on at vt100. | 21:12 |
| txwikinger | kermit was fantastic.. implicit EBSDIC <-> ASCII conversion and everything | 21:12 |
| dscassel | Probably vt220 or something, actually. | 21:12 |
| txwikinger | dscassel: Ever wrote software for an IBM 360? | 21:13 |
| genii-around | Bleh, batches | 21:13 |
| dscassel | txwikinger: Nope. | 21:13 |
| khoover | txwikinger, i believe i tried to make one in minecraft once. | 21:13 |
| txwikinger | that was a drag.. those system call were criminal | 21:13 |
| dscassel | All SunOS/Solaris in school. | 21:13 |
| genii-around | Our school had a few cool old computers like a PDP9 and PDP11 | 21:14 |
| txwikinger | Also. only block devices.. and those registers ... awful | 21:14 |
| genii-around | Later on my other school had IRIX/SGI | 21:14 |
| txwikinger | we were all happy when we got the first risc computer.. but we had to rewrite all the software to be able to run on risc | 21:15 |
| khoover | sorry, i tried to make EDVAC in minecraft | 21:15 |
| khoover | couldn't finish reading the specification. >_< | 21:15 |
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