[11:10] Hey all === ryanakca_ is now known as ryanakca === chuck_ is now known as zul [16:43] Moo. === dscassel_ is now known as dscassel [17:18] How Now Brown Cow , dscassel :) [17:18] What's New With You ? [18:08] BluesKaj: Busy. Work, Kwartzlab... not a lot of Ubuntu stuff since the Global Jam, sadly. [18:11] desktop wars ? [18:59] You mean like Gnome vs Unity vs KDE? [18:59] ...vs Openbox vs LXDE vs monad... [19:00] Did I drop into the middle of a desktop environment debate? ;) [19:01] genii-around: twm forever! [19:03] Thats a pretty old one! When I first saw linux, the main desktops were twm, fvwm, enlightenment, .... kde was at version 1.2 [19:05] dscassel, no unity vs gnome3 vs gnome shell vs classic gnome vs .... who knows what :) [19:45] dscassel: ratpoison! [19:54] I keep meaning to try that one... gui without a mouse sounds interesting [20:24] BluesKaj: Same thing. :) [20:25] no dscassel , I meant within gnome [20:25] cyphermox: I like the *idea* of tiling window managers, but I'm a bit too wedded to my mouse. [20:26] make no mistake, I can't use it either [20:26] * cyphermox uses unity, and I consider it somewhat part of my contract to do so [20:26] I've been using a mouse since 1988. I *need* it. [20:26] cyphermox: heh. :) [20:26] ;) [20:27] although that goes along with using xubuntu and kubuntu :) [20:27] BluesKaj: Yeah, I know. I just roll my eyes, really. [20:27] People should use what they like. Full stop. [20:27] absolutely [20:28] just mentioning that all three installed at the same time on the same system is absolutely doable, and usually works pretty well [20:28] Yeah. [20:28] with the exception that my notifications are horrendously disfigured in Unity if the xubuntu stuff is installed.. they start growing buttons and all [20:28] It looks like gnome-panel is going to be pretty stock standard, though. [20:29] It's a shame there's not an easy way to get back the "Classic" Ubuntu interface people are used to. [20:29] I'm sure that'll come, though. [20:29] yeah, I started , on the job with various instrument application control software that used guis ...and the lovely orange on black/blcak on orange monitor colours :) [20:29] It's making it hard to convince people to use Ubuntu [20:29] oh, there is [20:30] genii-around: What is? That it changes? [20:30] dscassel: install gnome-session-fallback; you get the "Classic" gnome thing, except it's the new fallback from gnome-shell, so it's the gnome-panel with clock in the middle and all of that [20:30] It'll stop changing soon. Transitions are hard. [20:30] cyphermox: Cool. [20:30] dscassel: Unity for desktop choice mostly [20:31] genii-around: I actually like Unity. So I scratch my head at that one. [20:31] I agree that presenting people with a choice straight off the bat is a turn-off. [20:32] People don't know what a "desktop environment" is, far less how to pick one. [20:33] The answer, I guess, is to talk to them first. Find out what they want. If they want to resurrect an old XP machine and don't like change, maybe lubuntu is the answer. [20:33] Heh, yes. [20:33] If they like flashy GUIs and Windows 7, maybe kubuntu. If they're a Mac fan, Unity. [20:33] a stable DE is best as default , not one that is as buggy as Unity [20:34] BluesKaj: cyphermox would be interested in any bugs you might have. [20:34] probably, yes [20:34] 11.04 unity is a 1.0 release. [20:34] It's not going to stay buggy. [20:34] even saying it's buggy tends to be usage specific [20:35] 11.04 unity users are, for better of for worse, beta testers. [20:35] I found it was usable, despite the issues [20:35] I use it every day. Even now, it's much better on 11.04 than at release. [20:35] I couldn't get it on my netbook due to Intel graphics card [20:35] dscassel, I don't rub gnome ...anymore ...tried it, but from the queries on #ubuntu about unity fixes . it's not difficult to see Unity has a lot of bugs [20:36] run [20:36] I'm not going to begrudge anyone running KDE if that's what they prefer. [20:36] I'd hear it from txwikinger if I did anyway. :) [20:37] dscassel: what did you do now? ;) [20:37] I'm telling people Unity isn't so bad. :) [20:38] * txwikinger does not give opinions on things he does not use [20:38] genii-around: Unity 2D is coming. Driver support for compiz isn't really unity's fault... [20:39] It's just frustrating, mostly. [20:39] Yeah. Beta testing often is. :) [20:39] * txwikinger thinks Gnome and Unity are going through the same user issue as KDE did when changing to KDE4 [20:44] * txwikinger wonders how long desktop wars will go on... aren't we getting into the age of the cloud? [20:45] google is working on that...wonder when it will be officilaly released [20:45] Not only google [20:50] who else ? [20:51] Amazon for one [20:52] what does amazon call their cloud OS? [20:53] Amazon allows you to choose the OS you put on the instances [20:53] otherwise I guess it's just called AWS [20:53] rackspace does a lot of cloud stuff [20:53] Canadian Cloud Computing [20:55] Well.. and then there is Ubuntu server with lots of cloud stuff [20:56] * txwikinger also does cloud stuff [21:02] Then there's tablets and smartphone OSes. [21:02] As I see it, everything is up for grabs. [21:02] ...isn't cloud computing what people left behind to go to the desktop model? [21:03] The only thing for certain is computing a few years from now won't look anything like it does now. [21:03] server-client? [21:03] khoover: It's the circle of life. :) [21:03] dscassel, i dislike it already [21:04] my hardware is my hardware, no sharing it with god knows how many other people. [21:05] khoover: I, for one, am glad that free software allows one to tailor their computing any way they want. :) [21:05] Mac users, for example, don't have the option of saying "Nuts to all this cloud stuff!" [21:05] They're getting it whether they like it or not. [21:06] dscassel: No.. there was no cloud [21:06] there was only one server [21:06] dscassel, see, that i can agree on. [21:06] and the communication lines were very expensive [21:07] I think the cloud has a lot more opportunities for free software [21:07] Most cloud stuff is linux [21:07] txwikinger, weren't clients, for the most part, either local to the server or run over dial-up? [21:07] *nods* [21:08] khoover: well.. first it was always one server.. and dumm terminals [21:08] dumb [21:08] with very long lines [21:08] very slow.. very unreliable [21:08] well.. before that were punch cards actually [21:08] even slower and even more unreliable [21:09] * txwikinger ask for a roll call who all has used the kermit terminal software before [21:09] Or who has ever use EBSDIC [21:09] +d [21:10] in all likelihood, i wasn't born then. [21:10] young crowd :D [21:11] txwikinger: Yes, used kermit :) [21:12] genii-around: ;) [21:12] In fact our FreeNet server here still has CLI login for users where they can use Lynx, Pine, etc [21:12] txwikinger: I got on at vt100. [21:12] kermit was fantastic.. implicit EBSDIC <-> ASCII conversion and everything [21:12] Probably vt220 or something, actually. [21:13] dscassel: Ever wrote software for an IBM 360? [21:13] Bleh, batches [21:13] txwikinger: Nope. [21:13] txwikinger, i believe i tried to make one in minecraft once. [21:13] that was a drag.. those system call were criminal [21:13] All SunOS/Solaris in school. [21:14] Our school had a few cool old computers like a PDP9 and PDP11 [21:14] Also. only block devices.. and those registers ... awful [21:14] Later on my other school had IRIX/SGI [21:15] we were all happy when we got the first risc computer.. but we had to rewrite all the software to be able to run on risc [21:15] sorry, i tried to make EDVAC in minecraft [21:15] couldn't finish reading the specification. >_<