=== VampiricPadraig| is now known as VampiricPadraigT
=== VampiricPadraig is now known as VampiricPada
=== VampiricPadraigT is now known as VampiricPadraig
=== VampiricPadraig is now known as VampiricPadraigT
=== VampiricPada is now known as VampiricPadraig
slashtomdo i detect a lack of enthusiasm? http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-ie/1278/detail/13:57
slashtomwe could do with people signing up to this one if they're going to come along, as we need to book tables13:58
czajkowskislashtom: harass on the ML I guess :/14:01
slashtomon the mailing list?14:02
slashtommike has already posted14:02
ebelLD has a template / html / <table> display bug14:02
slashtomi may report to the ILUG list in a couple of weeks14:03
tdr112i will sign up when i get how , i dont have my password on this laptop15:08
tdr112that is15:08
czajkowskitdr112: ello hows the job this week15:09
tdr112ok stoping at 6.30pm these days , had to work all weekend15:13
ebelsounds like you're working too hard.15:18
slashtomtdr112: unless you're arriving into work at 11am, they're taking the piss15:18
ebelRemember, you're soon enough out of college that you can just pretend this never happened on your CV.15:19
slashtomaye, 3 months out of college... you can write off the time and nobody would think anything of it15:19
ebeljust pretend you took a few weeks off to relax after college15:20
ebeland look for a new job.15:20
ebeltell these chancers to feck off.15:20
ebelIf you can walk away from the bargaining table, you are in a position of strength15:20
slashtomaye, unless they're paying well €80k+15:20
slashtomthey're chances and really taking the piss15:21
ebeleveryone goes through that. my ex-job was a PITA15:21
Tribaalhey, sorry to be jumping in, but I'll be moving to Ireland soon, and that seems like an appropriate discussion to ask this: what should I expect as "not taking the piss working hours"? :)15:22
slashtomyep, even yesterday i was sent a graduate job add for a position in england that wanted someone with a minimum 2:2 and paying less than my former salary (i was software team leader)15:23
slashtomTribaal: nothing more than 40 hours per week15:23
Tribaalslashtom: really? Whow15:23
slashtomwhere are you moving from?15:23
Tribaalgood to know15:23
slashtomgraduate or with experience?15:23
Tribaalhere the legal max is 42/week, and I currently do well over 5015:24
Tribaalwith experience15:24
Tribaal(10+ years)15:24
slashtomaye, it depends on the company but IT skills are in short supply15:24
slashtomanyone who wants to retain their employees treats them well15:24
slashtomthose who don't, like ebel's former employer do badly (i don't think ebel has been properly replaced, and he left 12 months ago)15:25
TribaalHow come, by the way? Seems like there are lots of IT companies there - there should be schools etc... to match, so where do all the IT guys leave to? the US?15:25
ebelusually 'full time' means 9am → 5pm (or 5:30pm), Monday → Friday15:25
ebellegal max here is 48hrs per week IIRC15:25
Tribaalwho did you work for ebel? :)15:26
ebelIreland usually just uses the bare minimum of EU employee rights15:26
slashtomTribaal: there's limited local resource, i work for a company with about 30 employee. in the past 18 months we have taken on about 5 new developers who the majority (including myself) are immigrants15:27
ebeldon't think it's a case of people leaving, more like jobs coming in.15:27
ebele.g. us companies.15:27
Tribaaloh, gotcha15:27
ebelbut I've always worked for irish tech companies, and there are load of them.15:27
ebelusually small companies15:27
Tribaalwhat do other activity sectors look like in Ireland? My wife isn't a techie - and she'll probably be looking for something sooner or later...15:28
ebellots of pharmacutial i think...15:28
ebelnot a lot of construction.....15:28
Tribaal(sorry - I don't mean to hijack the discussion, please tell me if I'm being a troll)15:28
czajkowskiTribaal: what area does she work in15:28
slashtomyou're grand15:28
ebelthings like nursing, teaching and a lot of public sector jobs have not been hiring anyone for years....15:29
Tribaalwell she's into banking/finance (project management mostly)15:29
czajkowskiwell banking sector possibly not so15:29
czajkowskigiven ireland current woes with the banks15:29
czajkowskiso PM work elsewhere possible15:29
ebeli don't know how many banking/finance jobs there are, but the banking industry kinda went downhill a bit15:29
czajkowskithough BOI has a lot of contract PM work atm15:29
Tribaalyeah sounds reasonable15:30
Tribaalgood to know for BOI (I assume Bank Of Ireland)15:30
ebelthat's an interesting observation, you never really heard lots of techies going off to the USA to get work15:31
ebelrecently or in the celtic tiger years...15:31
Tribaalhere it's the big thing15:31
Tribaalmost graduates dream of going to silicon valley to make it big15:31
ebelyes, there is some who'd do that....15:32
Tribaaland most end up doing shitty jobs there instead of staying and earning a relatively good living15:32
czajkowskiTribaal: where are you based now ?15:33
Tribaalin Zurich, Switzerland15:33
* ebel has been in the canton of zurich15:34
ebel(or maybe it was bern)15:34
czajkowskiTribaal: so you do realise the wages in ireland are a lot lower than  Switzerland by a long shot as well15:35
slashtomi don't think we went as far north as zurich15:35
slashtombut living costs are much lower15:35
ebelczajkowski: price is much less in .ie than .ch15:35
czajkowskia lot of my mates are in Google Switzerland15:35
TribaalBern looks like a castle (all made of stone, plenty of medieval-looking structures), Zurich is more cosmopolitan/modern15:35
slashtomit would be like moving from .ie to .uk15:35
ebelTribaal: me and slashtom were riding motorbikes over the alps15:35
czajkowskislashtom: they've said different which is why one is leaving and 3 are staying for various reasons15:35
Tribaalczajkowski: yeah, Google has a big R&D center here15:36
Tribaalebel: nice :)15:36
ebelTribaal: get used to things not really working as well, and things not being as tidy.15:36
czajkowskiyeah that's their big complaint when they come back visiting15:36
ebelI'm going to assume in switzerland things (e.g. busses/trains) work well and reliably. In Ireland things are a bit more... flexible.15:36
Tribaalebel: we don't mind :) That's partly why we're leaving this place - too orderly, not enough room for opportunities15:36
czajkowskiTribaal: are you irish and want to move back ?15:36
Tribaalczajkowski: nope15:36
czajkowskiTribaal: so why Ireland ?15:37
Tribaalwe're Swiss and French, and want to see the world, after living in a very tidy and boring country15:37
slashtomireland is deadly, of course :D15:37
TribaalWell, we're not completely hippies yet, so we decided to move wherever one of us would have a job offer first15:37
* slashtom tries to presuade czajkowski to move back :)15:37
Tribaal(some of my friends went what I call the hippie way and "dropped everything and went to Africa" or something)15:38
czajkowskislashtom: no chance and I don't mind it here seeing as I'm half English and dad is English. I mean dads dad left england and went back to poland to his country15:38
Tribaal(didn't work out so well for them)15:38
czajkowskiit's not as if I went to another country with no relationship with15:39
czajkowskiTribaal: aye we've had mates from Oz who did the EU thing and are now back in OZ15:39
Tribaalsorry, but what is OZ?15:39
ebelTribaal: mailing lists (e.g. ILUG, python-ireland etc.) are good places to find job postings.15:39
ebelas well as the usual ones like moster.ie, and recruiters15:40
Tribaal(I'll have to upgrade my slang terms I think :) )15:40
slashtomthat's where myself and czajkowski differ, i consider it a promotion to have moved from England to Ireland :)15:40
czajkowskiI was born here first remember15:40
slashtomaye, i used monster.ie15:40
czajkowskiand have relations here15:40
ebelsince companies can spend ages looking for a job, enquire about all job postings. I've gotten a job from a 6 month old job posting and an interview with a 1 year old job posting.15:40
slashtomrecruiters will pick you up as soon as you sign up to monster.ie15:41
czajkowskiTribaal: also look at linkedin15:41
Tribaalgood to know15:41
Tribaalyeah linkedin was what got me that job in Ireland15:41
czajkowskiTribaal: are you involved in the swiss or french loco ?15:41
Tribaalhopefully my wife will get something too :)15:41
ebelTribaal: slashtom (being a recent immigrant) can teach you all about slang :P15:41
Tribaalczajkowski: yea, the Swiss one15:41
Tribaalbut it's kind of boring :)15:41
czajkowskiTribaal: so will you come along to the release party in ireland now15:41
TribaalI mean everything is super difficult to organise for the Swiss loco since we speak 3 national languages...15:42
Tribaalczajkowski: probably not, I'll start working on the 1st of Nov (and before that I'll have to do the moving etc... in Switzerland)15:42
Tribaalbut I'll definitely be there for the next one however :)15:43
Tribaalor for drinkups etc... in the mean time15:43
ebelAh you already have a job, cool.15:43
Tribaalebel: yeah, that was the "why Ireland"15:43
slashtomin dublin?15:43
Tribaalthen my wife will probably want to get one too if possible15:44
ebelcool. what sorta tech do you work at?15:44
Tribaalyeah Dublin15:44
ebelif you haven't found a place to live, remember that ireland has had a massive property crash. rents are falling rapidly. it's a renters-market.15:44
Tribaaloh? good to know15:44
ebelapartment prices (to buy) are down about 50% in 3 years.15:44
ebel("deadly" = "brilliant" )15:44
Tribaalebel: oh ok :) Like in French then :)15:45
TribaalI wasn't sure :)15:45
ebelle deadly15:45
Tribaal"mortel" :)15:45
slashtomdaft.ie is good for rentals15:45
Tribaalgood to know15:45
Tribaalthanks guys (and gals)15:46
slashtomhttp://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/ - useful information15:46
Tribaalthe one link to rule them all15:46
Tribaaldeadly, thanks :)15:47
Tribaalebel, also since you asked, I'm a (mostly) Python developer15:51
ebelCool. Me too.15:51
czajkowskiTribaal: so where will you be working15:55
dstaarHi. I am probably wrong in this channel but I rely on the OS community. I'm looking for a good source about the irish job market which explains what exactly e.g. contract means in detail. For the curious one i would like to work in dublin and need some background information.16:35
ebelhehe, we were telling someone else about jobs in ireland earlier today (sorta)16:39
ebelwhat exactly do you not understand? what sort of job is it? (I assume some technology job?) Where are you coming from? UK? USA?16:39
ebela "contract job" is not a permanent job, but would be similar. it's a job that's limited in time, and you are only employed to work for (say) X months, after that you are not employed anymore16:40
ebelit's like a freelancer job, or temporary job.16:41
ebel(However practically jobs (include permanent jobs) will have an employment contract)16:41
ebeldstaar: does that help?16:42
dstaari come from germany at the moment i study in a masters program applied computer science.16:44
dstaarbefore writing my master thesis I would like to work in dublin for half a year that is my intention16:45
dstaarcontract based offers seem to be very popular16:45
ebelcool. There are a lot of technology jobs in dublin now.16:46
ebelthere are still a lot of permanent jobs, not just contract jobs.16:46
ebelBut if you only want to work 6 months, then a contract job might be best.16:46
ebelsince then the employer knows you will not be around after 6 months.16:46
dstaarit is also very flexible in germany permanent is more usual16:47
ebelif you go for a job interview, tell them that you want to quit the job in 6 months. be kind :)16:47
ebelpermanent job is probably more common than contract job. there are probably more people working in a permanent job than a contract job.16:48
dstaargermans are always kind :D16:48
ebelSome people don't want a permanent job and go from contract job to contract job.16:48
dstaarwhat about insurance and tax issues by a contract jobs, how is that handled?16:49
ebelI am not sure.... http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/introduction_to_the_irish_system/16:50
ebelhttp://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/ has lots of good information.16:50
dstaargreat source thank you.16:50
dstaardo you know something about job chances. I mean there are a lot of job offerings in the it sector twitter is full of that.16:51
ebelthere are a lot of technology/programming jobs in dublin now.16:51
dstaari got a bachelor degree, several years working experience and "some" english knowledge16:52
dstaardo you live in dublin ebel?16:52
ebelfor open source technologies you can try mailing lists, (e.g. ILUG), they often have job postings.16:54
ebelI live in Dublin.16:54
ebelRemember that some education qualification levels are different in different countries, but experience is always very helpful to you.16:54
ebelDublin, being the capital city, and ~ 20% → 30% of the population has lots of technology jobs.16:55
dstaarmy plans are to come in autumn next year to dublin together with my girlfriend. A flat seems to cost about 600€ but i couldn't find anything about electricity and internet costs et cetera.16:57
ebelireland had a big property crash (that's why the IMF/ECB bailout), so in 1 year, property might be less.16:58
ebelinternet is about €30 per month for ~ 8Mbit broadband (aka DSL)16:58
ebelelectricity is roughly similar per month.16:58
dstaarjust 8 Mbit, oh dear … no, just kidding  :D16:59
ebelSome houses/flats have gas heating, some don't.16:59
ebelwe don't (yet) pay council taxes or water rates. you may have to pay for rubbish collection (or if you live in a big apartment block you might not)16:59
dstaarok is it possible to get internet for 6month or there will be longe contracts?17:00
ebelusually contracts would be for 1 year. You can get prepaid 3G / mobile internet17:00
ebelso you can pay month by month for that. you might be able to get only 6 months of internet. maybe17:00
dstaari already did some research for 3G it's about 20€ for 7.5GB traffic.17:01
ebelwait, you might be able to get 6 months of broadband/dsl internet. You can definitly get only 6 months of mobile phone internet17:01
ebelyes, 3G wouldn't be as fast, or allow you to download as much.17:01
Tribaalsorry, irccloud went down for a while17:02
dstaari know bit it will be enough.17:02
Tribaalczajkowski: I'll be working with Dell17:02
dstaarit's just for keeping contact to family.17:02
Tribaaldstaar: what operator is that?17:03
dstaarit was one of the smaller companies.17:04
Tribaalthat sound spretty good17:04
dstaarmeteor or 3 one of them.17:04
ebelyou could get mobile data with your mobile phone plan. might be cheaper than a dongle. then use tethering to use the connection on your computer17:04
dstaaras long as i get a micro sim.17:05
Tribaalebel, what would you suggest for a mobile phone operator?17:05
Tribaalalso one of the smaller ones?17:05
ebelthere are only a few mobile phone operators really17:06
ebelnearly all have fine coverage in dublin (unless you're going up the mountains)17:06
ebel3 is newish and can have spotty coveragwe17:06
ebelotherwise they are all practically the same.17:06
ebeli have a phone with emobile.17:06
dstaaris 3 a real provider or just a reseller?17:06
ebelI think 3 are a real provider.17:07
ebeltesco mobile are a reseller. emobile is a reseller, but that's cause they (eircom) bought another mobile phone network (meteor), so it's the same company.17:07
ebelon eircom landline internet connection thepiratebay.org is censored and blocked.17:08
ebel(not on emobile or meteor, you can get to thepiratebay.org fine)17:08
dstaarthat is something which shouldn't be supported is there any more censorship?17:08
Tribaalwait - three has *all you can eat data* plans?17:08
TribaalI have to pay more than 20 Swiss francs for *1Gb*/month17:09
dstaari am paying 10€ for 1GB 3G the rest is transferred with GPRS17:09
ebeldstaar: no, tis only thepiratebay.org. The music industry asked them to block it, they did. :)17:09
Tribaalebel - any landline operator know not to censor?17:10
ebelIreland no longer blocks or censors books & films. (Go back 30 years and playboy was banned)17:10
Tribaalfor instance in France they have "Free", who made a public statement saying they would not censor when asked to by the gov.17:10
ebelTribaal: only eircom censor thepiratebay.org. everything else, is fine17:10
Tribaalebel: ok17:10
TribaalI should be ok to live with that17:11
Tribaaland can SSH tunnel anyway, if I *really* need to :P17:11
dstaarwe got a huge community in germany fighting against censorship it is scarring to hear that other countries already using their infrastructure for those cases17:11
ebelTribaal: there might be 'fair usage' policy on that. ie might not be unlimited.17:11
dstaaranyway using vpn or tor is the way to go17:11
Tribaalebel, yeah but still :) There are such usage restrictions on mine too :)17:12
* ebel has to go home, ttyl, this channel is usually pretty active.17:12
Tribaalebel: take care17:12
Tribaaland thanks for all the info17:12
dstaarthank you ebel17:12
dstaari'll be back … what a worse joke17:12
dstaartribaal where are you from?17:12
Tribaaldstaar: moving into Ireland too?17:13
TribaalSwitzerland for now17:13
dstaari want to move to dublin for half a year in 201217:13
Tribaalah cool17:15
* Tribaal jogging time - TTYL17:16
dstaaractually i am studying but it seems hard to pay for university that's why i am looking for a job17:16
czajkowskiTribaal: ahh dell in dublin so in cherry wood ?17:37
dstaaris dell looking for programmers?17:41
czajkowskimoonpie: ping20:01
Tribaalczajkowski: yeah, cherrywood20:43
Tribaaldon't know how much they are looking for programmers, but I assume at least a little, yeah20:44

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