| === VampiricPadraig| is now known as VampiricPadraigT | ||
| === VampiricPadraig is now known as VampiricPada | ||
| === VampiricPadraigT is now known as VampiricPadraig | ||
| === VampiricPadraig is now known as VampiricPadraigT | ||
| === VampiricPada is now known as VampiricPadraig | ||
| slashtom | do i detect a lack of enthusiasm? http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-ie/1278/detail/ | 13:57 |
|---|---|---|
| slashtom | we could do with people signing up to this one if they're going to come along, as we need to book tables | 13:58 |
| czajkowski | slashtom: harass on the ML I guess :/ | 14:01 |
| slashtom | on the mailing list? | 14:02 |
| slashtom | mike has already posted | 14:02 |
| ebel | LD has a template / html / <table> display bug | 14:02 |
| ebel | :P | 14:03 |
| slashtom | i may report to the ILUG list in a couple of weeks | 14:03 |
| slashtom | repost* | 14:03 |
| tdr112 | i will sign up when i get how , i dont have my password on this laptop | 15:08 |
| tdr112 | home | 15:08 |
| tdr112 | that is | 15:08 |
| czajkowski | tdr112: ello hows the job this week | 15:09 |
| tdr112 | ok stoping at 6.30pm these days , had to work all weekend | 15:13 |
| ebel | o_O | 15:18 |
| ebel | sounds like you're working too hard. | 15:18 |
| slashtom | tdr112: unless you're arriving into work at 11am, they're taking the piss | 15:18 |
| ebel | Remember, you're soon enough out of college that you can just pretend this never happened on your CV. | 15:19 |
| slashtom | aye, 3 months out of college... you can write off the time and nobody would think anything of it | 15:19 |
| ebel | just pretend you took a few weeks off to relax after college | 15:20 |
| ebel | and look for a new job. | 15:20 |
| ebel | tell these chancers to feck off. | 15:20 |
| ebel | If you can walk away from the bargaining table, you are in a position of strength | 15:20 |
| slashtom | aye, unless they're paying well €80k+ | 15:20 |
| slashtom | they're chances and really taking the piss | 15:21 |
| ebel | everyone goes through that. my ex-job was a PITA | 15:21 |
| Tribaal | hey, sorry to be jumping in, but I'll be moving to Ireland soon, and that seems like an appropriate discussion to ask this: what should I expect as "not taking the piss working hours"? :) | 15:22 |
| slashtom | yep, even yesterday i was sent a graduate job add for a position in england that wanted someone with a minimum 2:2 and paying less than my former salary (i was software team leader) | 15:23 |
| slashtom | Tribaal: nothing more than 40 hours per week | 15:23 |
| Tribaal | slashtom: really? Whow | 15:23 |
| slashtom | where are you moving from? | 15:23 |
| Tribaal | good to know | 15:23 |
| Tribaal | Switzerland | 15:23 |
| slashtom | graduate or with experience? | 15:23 |
| Tribaal | here the legal max is 42/week, and I currently do well over 50 | 15:24 |
| Tribaal | with experience | 15:24 |
| Tribaal | (10+ years) | 15:24 |
| slashtom | aye, it depends on the company but IT skills are in short supply | 15:24 |
| Tribaal | ok | 15:24 |
| slashtom | anyone who wants to retain their employees treats them well | 15:24 |
| slashtom | those who don't, like ebel's former employer do badly (i don't think ebel has been properly replaced, and he left 12 months ago) | 15:25 |
| Tribaal | How come, by the way? Seems like there are lots of IT companies there - there should be schools etc... to match, so where do all the IT guys leave to? the US? | 15:25 |
| ebel | usually 'full time' means 9am → 5pm (or 5:30pm), Monday → Friday | 15:25 |
| ebel | legal max here is 48hrs per week IIRC | 15:25 |
| Tribaal | who did you work for ebel? :) | 15:26 |
| ebel | Ireland usually just uses the bare minimum of EU employee rights | 15:26 |
| slashtom | Tribaal: there's limited local resource, i work for a company with about 30 employee. in the past 18 months we have taken on about 5 new developers who the majority (including myself) are immigrants | 15:27 |
| ebel | don't think it's a case of people leaving, more like jobs coming in. | 15:27 |
| ebel | e.g. us companies. | 15:27 |
| Tribaal | oh, gotcha | 15:27 |
| ebel | but I've always worked for irish tech companies, and there are load of them. | 15:27 |
| ebel | usually small companies | 15:27 |
| Tribaal | what do other activity sectors look like in Ireland? My wife isn't a techie - and she'll probably be looking for something sooner or later... | 15:28 |
| ebel | lots of pharmacutial i think... | 15:28 |
| ebel | not a lot of construction..... | 15:28 |
| Tribaal | (sorry - I don't mean to hijack the discussion, please tell me if I'm being a troll) | 15:28 |
| czajkowski | Tribaal: what area does she work in | 15:28 |
| slashtom | you're grand | 15:28 |
| ebel | things like nursing, teaching and a lot of public sector jobs have not been hiring anyone for years.... | 15:29 |
| Tribaal | well she's into banking/finance (project management mostly) | 15:29 |
| czajkowski | well banking sector possibly not so | 15:29 |
| czajkowski | given ireland current woes with the banks | 15:29 |
| Tribaal | yeah | 15:29 |
| czajkowski | so PM work elsewhere possible | 15:29 |
| ebel | i don't know how many banking/finance jobs there are, but the banking industry kinda went downhill a bit | 15:29 |
| czajkowski | though BOI has a lot of contract PM work atm | 15:29 |
| Tribaal | yeah sounds reasonable | 15:30 |
| Tribaal | good to know for BOI (I assume Bank Of Ireland) | 15:30 |
| ebel | that's an interesting observation, you never really heard lots of techies going off to the USA to get work | 15:31 |
| ebel | recently or in the celtic tiger years... | 15:31 |
| Tribaal | here it's the big thing | 15:31 |
| Tribaal | most graduates dream of going to silicon valley to make it big | 15:31 |
| ebel | yes, there is some who'd do that.... | 15:32 |
| Tribaal | and most end up doing shitty jobs there instead of staying and earning a relatively good living | 15:32 |
| czajkowski | Tribaal: where are you based now ? | 15:33 |
| Tribaal | in Zurich, Switzerland | 15:33 |
| * ebel has been in the canton of zurich | 15:34 | |
| ebel | (or maybe it was bern) | 15:34 |
| Tribaal | hehe | 15:34 |
| czajkowski | Tribaal: so you do realise the wages in ireland are a lot lower than Switzerland by a long shot as well | 15:35 |
| slashtom | i don't think we went as far north as zurich | 15:35 |
| slashtom | but living costs are much lower | 15:35 |
| ebel | czajkowski: price is much less in .ie than .ch | 15:35 |
| czajkowski | a lot of my mates are in Google Switzerland | 15:35 |
| Tribaal | Bern looks like a castle (all made of stone, plenty of medieval-looking structures), Zurich is more cosmopolitan/modern | 15:35 |
| slashtom | it would be like moving from .ie to .uk | 15:35 |
| ebel | Tribaal: me and slashtom were riding motorbikes over the alps | 15:35 |
| czajkowski | slashtom: they've said different which is why one is leaving and 3 are staying for various reasons | 15:35 |
| Tribaal | czajkowski: yeah, Google has a big R&D center here | 15:36 |
| czajkowski | indeed | 15:36 |
| Tribaal | ebel: nice :) | 15:36 |
| ebel | Tribaal: get used to things not really working as well, and things not being as tidy. | 15:36 |
| czajkowski | yeah that's their big complaint when they come back visiting | 15:36 |
| ebel | I'm going to assume in switzerland things (e.g. busses/trains) work well and reliably. In Ireland things are a bit more... flexible. | 15:36 |
| Tribaal | ebel: we don't mind :) That's partly why we're leaving this place - too orderly, not enough room for opportunities | 15:36 |
| czajkowski | Tribaal: are you irish and want to move back ? | 15:36 |
| Tribaal | czajkowski: nope | 15:36 |
| czajkowski | Tribaal: so why Ireland ? | 15:37 |
| Tribaal | we're Swiss and French, and want to see the world, after living in a very tidy and boring country | 15:37 |
| slashtom | ireland is deadly, of course :D | 15:37 |
| Tribaal | Well, we're not completely hippies yet, so we decided to move wherever one of us would have a job offer first | 15:37 |
| * slashtom tries to presuade czajkowski to move back :) | 15:37 | |
| Tribaal | :) | 15:37 |
| Tribaal | (some of my friends went what I call the hippie way and "dropped everything and went to Africa" or something) | 15:38 |
| czajkowski | slashtom: no chance and I don't mind it here seeing as I'm half English and dad is English. I mean dads dad left england and went back to poland to his country | 15:38 |
| Tribaal | (didn't work out so well for them) | 15:38 |
| czajkowski | it's not as if I went to another country with no relationship with | 15:39 |
| czajkowski | Tribaal: aye we've had mates from Oz who did the EU thing and are now back in OZ | 15:39 |
| Tribaal | sorry, but what is OZ? | 15:39 |
| ebel | Tribaal: mailing lists (e.g. ILUG, python-ireland etc.) are good places to find job postings. | 15:39 |
| czajkowski | Australia | 15:40 |
| ebel | as well as the usual ones like moster.ie, and recruiters | 15:40 |
| Tribaal | (I'll have to upgrade my slang terms I think :) ) | 15:40 |
| slashtom | that's where myself and czajkowski differ, i consider it a promotion to have moved from England to Ireland :) | 15:40 |
| czajkowski | :) | 15:40 |
| Tribaal | hehe | 15:40 |
| czajkowski | I was born here first remember | 15:40 |
| slashtom | aye, i used monster.ie | 15:40 |
| czajkowski | and have relations here | 15:40 |
| ebel | since companies can spend ages looking for a job, enquire about all job postings. I've gotten a job from a 6 month old job posting and an interview with a 1 year old job posting. | 15:40 |
| slashtom | recruiters will pick you up as soon as you sign up to monster.ie | 15:41 |
| czajkowski | Tribaal: also look at linkedin | 15:41 |
| Tribaal | good to know | 15:41 |
| Tribaal | yeah linkedin was what got me that job in Ireland | 15:41 |
| czajkowski | Tribaal: are you involved in the swiss or french loco ? | 15:41 |
| Tribaal | hopefully my wife will get something too :) | 15:41 |
| ebel | Tribaal: slashtom (being a recent immigrant) can teach you all about slang :P | 15:41 |
| slashtom | :P | 15:41 |
| Tribaal | czajkowski: yea, the Swiss one | 15:41 |
| Tribaal | but it's kind of boring :) | 15:41 |
| czajkowski | Tribaal: so will you come along to the release party in ireland now | 15:41 |
| Tribaal | I mean everything is super difficult to organise for the Swiss loco since we speak 3 national languages... | 15:42 |
| Tribaal | czajkowski: probably not, I'll start working on the 1st of Nov (and before that I'll have to do the moving etc... in Switzerland) | 15:42 |
| Tribaal | but I'll definitely be there for the next one however :) | 15:43 |
| Tribaal | or for drinkups etc... in the mean time | 15:43 |
| ebel | Ah you already have a job, cool. | 15:43 |
| Tribaal | ebel: yeah, that was the "why Ireland" | 15:43 |
| slashtom | in dublin? | 15:43 |
| Tribaal | then my wife will probably want to get one too if possible | 15:44 |
| ebel | cool. what sorta tech do you work at? | 15:44 |
| Tribaal | yeah Dublin | 15:44 |
| slashtom | deadly! | 15:44 |
| Tribaal | ? | 15:44 |
| ebel | if you haven't found a place to live, remember that ireland has had a massive property crash. rents are falling rapidly. it's a renters-market. | 15:44 |
| Tribaal | oh? good to know | 15:44 |
| ebel | apartment prices (to buy) are down about 50% in 3 years. | 15:44 |
| ebel | ("deadly" = "brilliant" ) | 15:44 |
| Tribaal | ebel: oh ok :) Like in French then :) | 15:45 |
| Tribaal | I wasn't sure :) | 15:45 |
| ebel | le deadly | 15:45 |
| Tribaal | lol | 15:45 |
| Tribaal | "mortel" :) | 15:45 |
| slashtom | daft.ie is good for rentals | 15:45 |
| Tribaal | good to know | 15:45 |
| Tribaal | thanks guys (and gals) | 15:46 |
| slashtom | http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/ - useful information | 15:46 |
| Tribaal | whow | 15:46 |
| Tribaal | the one link to rule them all | 15:46 |
| Tribaal | :) | 15:46 |
| slashtom | http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/introduction_to_the_irish_system/ | 15:47 |
| Tribaal | deadly, thanks :) | 15:47 |
| Tribaal | ebel, also since you asked, I'm a (mostly) Python developer | 15:51 |
| ebel | Cool. Me too. | 15:51 |
| czajkowski | Tribaal: so where will you be working | 15:55 |
| dstaar | Hi. I am probably wrong in this channel but I rely on the OS community. I'm looking for a good source about the irish job market which explains what exactly e.g. contract means in detail. For the curious one i would like to work in dublin and need some background information. | 16:35 |
| ebel | hehe, we were telling someone else about jobs in ireland earlier today (sorta) | 16:39 |
| ebel | what exactly do you not understand? what sort of job is it? (I assume some technology job?) Where are you coming from? UK? USA? | 16:39 |
| ebel | germany? | 16:39 |
| ebel | a "contract job" is not a permanent job, but would be similar. it's a job that's limited in time, and you are only employed to work for (say) X months, after that you are not employed anymore | 16:40 |
| ebel | it's like a freelancer job, or temporary job. | 16:41 |
| ebel | (However practically jobs (include permanent jobs) will have an employment contract) | 16:41 |
| ebel | dstaar: does that help? | 16:42 |
| dstaar | i come from germany at the moment i study in a masters program applied computer science. | 16:44 |
| dstaar | before writing my master thesis I would like to work in dublin for half a year that is my intention | 16:45 |
| dstaar | contract based offers seem to be very popular | 16:45 |
| ebel | cool. There are a lot of technology jobs in dublin now. | 16:46 |
| ebel | there are still a lot of permanent jobs, not just contract jobs. | 16:46 |
| ebel | But if you only want to work 6 months, then a contract job might be best. | 16:46 |
| ebel | since then the employer knows you will not be around after 6 months. | 16:46 |
| dstaar | it is also very flexible in germany permanent is more usual | 16:47 |
| ebel | if you go for a job interview, tell them that you want to quit the job in 6 months. be kind :) | 16:47 |
| ebel | permanent job is probably more common than contract job. there are probably more people working in a permanent job than a contract job. | 16:48 |
| dstaar | germans are always kind :D | 16:48 |
| ebel | Some people don't want a permanent job and go from contract job to contract job. | 16:48 |
| dstaar | what about insurance and tax issues by a contract jobs, how is that handled? | 16:49 |
| ebel | I am not sure.... http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/introduction_to_the_irish_system/ | 16:50 |
| ebel | http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/ has lots of good information. | 16:50 |
| dstaar | great source thank you. | 16:50 |
| dstaar | do you know something about job chances. I mean there are a lot of job offerings in the it sector twitter is full of that. | 16:51 |
| ebel | there are a lot of technology/programming jobs in dublin now. | 16:51 |
| dstaar | i got a bachelor degree, several years working experience and "some" english knowledge | 16:52 |
| dstaar | do you live in dublin ebel? | 16:52 |
| ebel | for open source technologies you can try mailing lists, (e.g. ILUG), they often have job postings. | 16:54 |
| ebel | I live in Dublin. | 16:54 |
| ebel | Remember that some education qualification levels are different in different countries, but experience is always very helpful to you. | 16:54 |
| ebel | Dublin, being the capital city, and ~ 20% → 30% of the population has lots of technology jobs. | 16:55 |
| dstaar | my plans are to come in autumn next year to dublin together with my girlfriend. A flat seems to cost about 600€ but i couldn't find anything about electricity and internet costs et cetera. | 16:57 |
| ebel | ireland had a big property crash (that's why the IMF/ECB bailout), so in 1 year, property might be less. | 16:58 |
| ebel | internet is about €30 per month for ~ 8Mbit broadband (aka DSL) | 16:58 |
| ebel | electricity is roughly similar per month. | 16:58 |
| dstaar | just 8 Mbit, oh dear … no, just kidding :D | 16:59 |
| ebel | Some houses/flats have gas heating, some don't. | 16:59 |
| ebel | we don't (yet) pay council taxes or water rates. you may have to pay for rubbish collection (or if you live in a big apartment block you might not) | 16:59 |
| dstaar | ok is it possible to get internet for 6month or there will be longe contracts? | 17:00 |
| ebel | usually contracts would be for 1 year. You can get prepaid 3G / mobile internet | 17:00 |
| ebel | so you can pay month by month for that. you might be able to get only 6 months of internet. maybe | 17:00 |
| dstaar | i already did some research for 3G it's about 20€ for 7.5GB traffic. | 17:01 |
| ebel | wait, you might be able to get 6 months of broadband/dsl internet. You can definitly get only 6 months of mobile phone internet | 17:01 |
| ebel | yes, 3G wouldn't be as fast, or allow you to download as much. | 17:01 |
| Tribaal | sorry, irccloud went down for a while | 17:02 |
| dstaar | i know bit it will be enough. | 17:02 |
| Tribaal | czajkowski: I'll be working with Dell | 17:02 |
| dstaar | it's just for keeping contact to family. | 17:02 |
| Tribaal | dstaar: what operator is that? | 17:03 |
| dstaar | wait. | 17:03 |
| dstaar | it was one of the smaller companies. | 17:04 |
| Tribaal | that sound spretty good | 17:04 |
| dstaar | meteor or 3 one of them. | 17:04 |
| ebel | you could get mobile data with your mobile phone plan. might be cheaper than a dongle. then use tethering to use the connection on your computer | 17:04 |
| dstaar | as long as i get a micro sim. | 17:05 |
| Tribaal | ebel, what would you suggest for a mobile phone operator? | 17:05 |
| Tribaal | also one of the smaller ones? | 17:05 |
| ebel | there are only a few mobile phone operators really | 17:06 |
| ebel | nearly all have fine coverage in dublin (unless you're going up the mountains) | 17:06 |
| ebel | 3 is newish and can have spotty coveragwe | 17:06 |
| ebel | otherwise they are all practically the same. | 17:06 |
| ebel | i have a phone with emobile. | 17:06 |
| dstaar | is 3 a real provider or just a reseller? | 17:06 |
| ebel | I think 3 are a real provider. | 17:07 |
| ebel | tesco mobile are a reseller. emobile is a reseller, but that's cause they (eircom) bought another mobile phone network (meteor), so it's the same company. | 17:07 |
| ebel | on eircom landline internet connection thepiratebay.org is censored and blocked. | 17:08 |
| ebel | (not on emobile or meteor, you can get to thepiratebay.org fine) | 17:08 |
| dstaar | that is something which shouldn't be supported is there any more censorship? | 17:08 |
| Tribaal | wait - three has *all you can eat data* plans? | 17:08 |
| Tribaal | geez | 17:09 |
| Tribaal | I have to pay more than 20 Swiss francs for *1Gb*/month | 17:09 |
| dstaar | i am paying 10€ for 1GB 3G the rest is transferred with GPRS | 17:09 |
| ebel | dstaar: no, tis only thepiratebay.org. The music industry asked them to block it, they did. :) | 17:09 |
| Tribaal | ebel - any landline operator know not to censor? | 17:10 |
| ebel | Ireland no longer blocks or censors books & films. (Go back 30 years and playboy was banned) | 17:10 |
| Tribaal | for instance in France they have "Free", who made a public statement saying they would not censor when asked to by the gov. | 17:10 |
| ebel | Tribaal: only eircom censor thepiratebay.org. everything else, is fine | 17:10 |
| Tribaal | ebel: ok | 17:10 |
| Tribaal | I should be ok to live with that | 17:11 |
| Tribaal | and can SSH tunnel anyway, if I *really* need to :P | 17:11 |
| dstaar | we got a huge community in germany fighting against censorship it is scarring to hear that other countries already using their infrastructure for those cases | 17:11 |
| ebel | Tribaal: there might be 'fair usage' policy on that. ie might not be unlimited. | 17:11 |
| dstaar | anyway using vpn or tor is the way to go | 17:11 |
| Tribaal | ebel, yeah but still :) There are such usage restrictions on mine too :) | 17:12 |
| * ebel has to go home, ttyl, this channel is usually pretty active. | 17:12 | |
| Tribaal | hehe | 17:12 |
| Tribaal | ebel: take care | 17:12 |
| Tribaal | and thanks for all the info | 17:12 |
| dstaar | thank you ebel | 17:12 |
| dstaar | i'll be back … what a worse joke | 17:12 |
| dstaar | tribaal where are you from? | 17:12 |
| Tribaal | hehe | 17:12 |
| Tribaal | dstaar: moving into Ireland too? | 17:13 |
| Tribaal | Switzerland for now | 17:13 |
| dstaar | i want to move to dublin for half a year in 2012 | 17:13 |
| Tribaal | ah cool | 17:15 |
| * Tribaal jogging time - TTYL | 17:16 | |
| dstaar | actually i am studying but it seems hard to pay for university that's why i am looking for a job | 17:16 |
| czajkowski | Tribaal: ahh dell in dublin so in cherry wood ? | 17:37 |
| dstaar | is dell looking for programmers? | 17:41 |
| czajkowski | moonpie: ping | 20:01 |
| Tribaal | czajkowski: yeah, cherrywood | 20:43 |
| Tribaal | don't know how much they are looking for programmers, but I assume at least a little, yeah | 20:44 |
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