| ojwb | hmm, is there anything happening for software freedom day in wellington this year? | 02:15 |
|---|---|---|
| ojwb | http://softwarefreedomday.org.nz/Wellington is kind of vague, and the feeds seem to have last updated just under a year ago | 02:16 |
| ibeardslee | ojwb: there was some discussion at the NZOSS agm about what could be done. There was talk of a gathering of some sort .. but not to the same scale as previous years | 02:21 |
| ajmitch | is it like asking when the ubuntu-nz loco is going to do something? | 02:22 |
| ojwb | the events the last few years have been pretty substantial | 02:23 |
| ibeardslee | yeah .. but feel free to step in | 02:23 |
| ojwb | though I realise it's a significant effort to pull them together | 02:23 |
| ajmitch | ibeardslee: that requires imagination & some effort | 02:24 |
| ibeardslee | which I lack to some degree | 02:24 |
| ajmitch | you're not the only one | 02:24 |
| ajmitch | if someone does have loco ideas, I'm sure we'd support them :) | 02:25 |
| ojwb | come on baby, do the loco motion! | 02:27 |
| ibeardslee | .. .. except ojwb's idea | 02:28 |
| chilts | lol | 02:44 |
| karora | Yeah, SFD has had a couple of capable organisers for the last few years, but it does seem to burn them out! | 03:25 |
| snail | is there a link to how to upgrade a desktop to 11.10 before the official release? I want the graceful upgrade by GUI tools rather than the CD image | 03:54 |
| snail | d'oh. found it. | 03:54 |
| ibeardslee | the CD is gui installable | 03:55 |
| ibeardslee | it'd pick up there are new packages and check to see if you want to upgrade | 03:55 |
| ajmitch | ibeardslee: isn't that just for the alternate cd? | 03:57 |
| ibeardslee | don't think so .. I'm sure when I had a oneiric desktop iso for one of the betas it asked me if I wanted to update natty | 03:58 |
| * ajmitch could be wrong, but had thought that only the alternate image contained .debs, which would make upgrading from the desktop image a bit harder | 03:59 | |
| ajmitch | I very rarely see the installer these days | 04:00 |
| * ibeardslee could be wrong as well .. so many isos | 04:06 | |
| * karora just downgraded to 11.04... | 10:35 | |
| karora | Well, for Heather's new laptop. | 10:35 |
| karora | 11.10 just turned into instantly into a whole pile of fail. | 10:36 |
| ajmitch | what blew up? | 10:39 |
| ibeardslee | morning | 19:40 |
| snail | morning | 19:51 |
| ajmitch | morning | 20:22 |
| Atamira | morena | 20:25 |
| mwhudson | morning | 21:05 |
| thumper | morning | 21:21 |
| thumper | karora: what happened? | 21:22 |
| karora | The unity-2d thing was just totally useless. | 21:27 |
| karora | Things were crashing every 20 seconds or so, repeatedly. | 21:27 |
| ojwb | morning | 21:27 |
| karora | I had to use the 'nomodeset' option in order to boot, so there was no 3d driver active. | 21:28 |
| ojwb | karora: my impression was that unity wasn't really ready to be pushed out to the world in 11.10 | 21:28 |
| karora | It was strange though, even things like icons were missing until I installed some of the icon packages from gnome. | 21:28 |
| ojwb | you can just uninstall it and get a more normal gnome environment though | 21:28 |
| karora | I tried using the fglrx drivers and just got a big square piece of screen corruption for a cursor. | 21:29 |
| ibeardslee | ojwb: 11.04 or 11.10 ? | 21:29 |
| * ojwb sshes in to check | 21:29 | |
| ojwb | oh, 11.04, yeah | 21:30 |
| ojwb | 11.10 isn't released yet of course | 21:30 |
| ojwb | sorry for the confusion | 21:30 |
| ojwb | can you not get normal gnome in 11.10? | 21:30 |
| ibeardslee | I'm finding that although signs of being incomplete, the 11.10 unity (2d) is behaving fairly well. | 21:30 |
| ibeardslee | the 'ubuntu standard' has been removed from the default options | 21:31 |
| ibeardslee | unity is growing on me | 21:31 |
| ojwb | hmm, I think I might be switching the old machines to debian then | 21:31 |
| ibeardslee | Mint is another option to consider | 21:32 |
| ajmitch | removed from default options != removed from archive, afaik | 21:32 |
| ibeardslee | it uses a bunch of ubuntu repos, but puts a gnome interface on it | 21:32 |
| ojwb | tbh unity didn't get much of a chance to impress me given it didn't really seem to work | 21:32 |
| ajmitch | they've apparantly tried to keep the 'classic' interface still working | 21:32 |
| ojwb | but I'm not sure I want a major change in how my desktop works | 21:33 |
| ibeardslee | ajmitch: oh, I thought there was a plan to remove it with 11.10 | 21:33 |
| ajmitch | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2011-September/012885.html | 21:34 |
| ojwb | so apparently canonical invested "multiple hours" in keeping it working | 21:37 |
| ajmitch | one frustrated developer replying to people's misinformation & miscommunication | 21:38 |
| ojwb | yeah, it just seemed a slightly underwhelming amount of time | 21:39 |
| ojwb | it is good that they haven't just dropped support for it though | 21:41 |
| ajmitch | did you expect weeks of work put in to make the non-default desktop work? | 21:42 |
| ajmitch | this is ubuntu, there are only about 13 weeks from UDS to feature freeze :) | 21:42 |
| ojwb | well, that's calendar weeks not man weeks | 21:44 |
| ajmitch | right, and the desktop team is relatively small compared to the team that actually works on unity | 21:44 |
| ajmitch | it's a bit of an odd split | 21:44 |
| ojwb | not sure I really expect anything particularly, but I think dropping support would have been a strategic misstep on their part | 21:45 |
| ajmitch | yeah, I think it would have pissed off a few people to just drop it altogether | 21:45 |
| ajmitch | I don't know how much love gnome-panel & friends are getting upstream these days | 21:45 |
| snail | maybe it's part of a sekret plan to drive desktop users back to debian... | 21:48 |
| ajmitch | where people get to use gnome-shell? | 21:50 |
| ojwb | it would also seem odd to support KDE and XFCE as choices but not Gnome | 21:50 |
| === Milos|Netbook_ is now known as Milos|Netbook | ||
| chilts | morning :) | 22:31 |
| * thumper laments | 22:59 | |
| thumper | the whole unity in 11.04 thing was very political | 22:59 |
| thumper | which code shouldn't be | 22:59 |
| thumper | but often gets caught up with | 22:59 |
| thumper | I can attest to unity being better in oneiric | 22:59 |
| thumper | at least on the memory side | 22:59 |
| thumper | as I've spent most of the last two months fixing memory leaks | 22:59 |
| thumper | and I've run out of ones to find for now | 22:59 |
| thumper | as long as no one commits, or does things I didn't think of :) | 23:00 |
| snail | thumper: the thing is to stop people committing... | 23:01 |
| thumper | :-) | 23:01 |
| thumper | I have to say that my initial response to the new alt-tab was WHY? | 23:02 |
| thumper | but I'm used to it now | 23:02 |
| thumper | and I kinda like it | 23:02 |
| thumper | especially when you use it in conjunction with alt-` | 23:02 |
| ibeardslee | hmm it hides behind my windows | 23:04 |
| thumper | that has hopefully been fixed now | 23:05 |
| thumper | it is a compiz bug | 23:05 |
| ajmitch | thumper: does this mean you get to relax for a month or so if there are no leaks left? :) | 23:05 |
| thumper | our compiz person is pretty confident with it | 23:05 |
| * ibeardslee just finished updating and rebooting | 23:06 | |
| thumper | ajmitch: no... not yet | 23:06 |
| * ajmitch has his laptop at hom eat the moment upgrading to maverick | 23:06 | |
| thumper | ibeardslee: I'm pretty sure it hasn't been packaged yet | 23:06 |
| ojwb | are the non-LTS releases essentially to be regarded as "development snapshots" these days? | 23:06 |
| ajmitch | & maybe I'll upgrade to natty tonight | 23:06 |
| ibeardslee | thumper: ahh ok | 23:06 |
| ajmitch | ojwb: I'd hope not | 23:06 |
| thumper | ojwb: they shouldn't be | 23:06 |
| ajmitch | much effort does go into making them work still | 23:07 |
| ajmitch | it's just never enough to make all the bugs disappear :) | 23:07 |
| thumper | heh, aint that the truth | 23:07 |
| thumper | although I have to admit that the dx team is getting more time to fix bugs this cycle | 23:07 |
| ojwb | it does seem there are too many live releases for the man power | 23:08 |
| thumper | apparently there was no bug fix time last time due to rushing it in | 23:08 |
| thumper | ojwb: we're growing :) | 23:08 |
| thumper | which isn't a quick fix | 23:08 |
| thumper | any strong C++ people looking for work? | 23:08 |
| ajmitch | I wonder if scott's writeup of his vision for the release cycle will get much discussion at UDS :) | 23:09 |
| thumper | I'm looking for more people in my TZ :) | 23:09 |
| thumper | I didn't read it | 23:09 |
| thumper | care to summarise? | 23:09 |
| ajmitch | 6-month release cycle is bad due to how canonical's performance bonuses encourage people to get stuff in by feature freeze | 23:10 |
| ajmitch | his proposal seems to be for more of a rolling release | 23:10 |
| ajmitch | & that time-based releases shouldn't mean trying to jam as much into each release that's half-done as possible | 23:11 |
| ojwb | thumper: well, my C++ is good, but I think I'd probably find canonical more frustrating from the inside than the outside | 23:11 |
| ojwb | not really sure I want a real job either | 23:11 |
| thumper | ojwb: heh | 23:11 |
| ajmitch | my c++ skills are poor, as you know :) | 23:12 |
| mwhudson | my c++ skills have spent at least a decade rusting | 23:12 |
| thumper | ojwb: what do you do now? | 23:12 |
| mwhudson | which is quite a frightening thing to realize | 23:12 |
| thumper | mwhudson: you don't count | 23:12 |
| ojwb | thumper: xapian stuff | 23:12 |
| ibeardslee | I never learnt c++ | 23:12 |
| mwhudson | thumper: heh, why not? :) | 23:12 |
| ajmitch | mwhudson: you've probably done more than the few weeks I did with it at uni | 23:13 |
| thumper | mwhudson: unless you want to move to dx? | 23:13 |
| thumper | mwhudson: I'd have you | 23:13 |
| mwhudson | thumper: not really, no | 23:13 |
| thumper | we could brush that rust off | 23:13 |
| ajmitch | though at one point I did actually do some C++ with Qt for fun | 23:13 |
| thumper | mwhudson: didn't think so | 23:13 |
| ajmitch | back in the kde 1.x/2.x days | 23:13 |
| ibeardslee | thumper: another bunch of updates landed .. seeing the alt-tab seems to work now | 23:15 |
| * ajmitch will probably try & upgrade to oneiric this week to see what's broken | 23:15 | |
| thumper | my freaking touchpad is still broken | 23:16 |
| * ibeardslee was impressed that his graphics tablet 'just works' now | 23:17 | |
| mwhudson | my touchpad doesn't seem to work in natty, but it sucks anyway | 23:17 |
| mwhudson | (luckily i have a thinkpad i guess) | 23:17 |
| * ajmitch rarely uses a touchpad, it's so annoying | 23:19 | |
| karora | ajmitch: I didn't find so much stuff broken when I upgraded to Oneiric. | 23:20 |
| karora | It was when I installed it from scratch that everything seemed borked. | 23:20 |
| ajmitch | I expect that at least a few things will break for me | 23:20 |
| ibeardslee | I had problems with the upgrade until I removed gdm | 23:22 |
| ojwb | thumper: I saw this and thought of you: http://fairfaxmedia.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx | 23:38 |
| ojwb | or your avatar rather | 23:38 |
| thumper | ojwb: that link isn't very useful | 23:43 |
| ojwb | oh sorry: http://fairfaxmedia.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx?newspaper=the+hutt+news&cid=1829 | 23:43 |
| thumper | :) | 23:48 |
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