ojwbhmm, is there anything happening for software freedom day in wellington this year?02:15
ojwbhttp://softwarefreedomday.org.nz/Wellington is kind of vague, and the feeds seem to have last updated just under a year ago02:16
ibeardsleeojwb: there was some discussion at the NZOSS agm about what could be done.  There was talk of a gathering of some sort .. but not to the same scale as previous years02:21
ajmitchis it like asking when the ubuntu-nz loco is going to do something?02:22
ojwbthe events the last few years have been pretty substantial02:23
ibeardsleeyeah .. but feel free to step in02:23
ojwbthough I realise it's a significant effort to pull them together02:23
ajmitchibeardslee: that requires imagination & some effort02:24
ibeardsleewhich I lack to some degree02:24
ajmitchyou're not the only one02:24
ajmitchif someone does have loco ideas, I'm sure we'd support them :)02:25
ojwbcome on baby, do the loco motion!02:27
ibeardslee.. .. except ojwb's idea02:28
karoraYeah, SFD has had a couple of capable organisers for the last few years, but it does seem to burn them out!03:25
snailis there a link to how to upgrade a desktop to 11.10 before the official release? I want the graceful upgrade by GUI tools rather than the CD image03:54
snaild'oh. found it.03:54
ibeardsleethe CD is gui installable03:55
ibeardsleeit'd pick up there are new packages and check to see if you want to upgrade03:55
ajmitchibeardslee: isn't that just for the alternate cd?03:57
ibeardsleedon't think so .. I'm sure when I had a oneiric desktop iso for one of the betas it asked me if I wanted to update natty03:58
* ajmitch could be wrong, but had thought that only the alternate image contained .debs, which would make upgrading from the desktop image a bit harder03:59
ajmitchI very rarely see the installer these days04:00
* ibeardslee could be wrong as well .. so many isos04:06
* karora just downgraded to 11.04...10:35
karoraWell, for Heather's new laptop.10:35
karora11.10 just turned into instantly into a whole pile of fail.10:36
ajmitchwhat blew up?10:39
thumperkarora: what happened?21:22
karoraThe unity-2d thing was just totally useless.21:27
karoraThings were crashing every 20 seconds or so, repeatedly.21:27
karoraI had to use the 'nomodeset' option in order to boot, so there was no 3d driver active.21:28
ojwbkarora: my impression was that unity wasn't really ready to be pushed out to the world in 11.1021:28
karoraIt was strange though, even things like icons were missing until I installed some of the icon packages from gnome.21:28
ojwbyou can just uninstall it and get a more normal gnome environment though21:28
karoraI tried using the fglrx drivers and just got a big square piece of screen corruption for a cursor.21:29
ibeardsleeojwb: 11.04 or 11.10 ?21:29
* ojwb sshes in to check21:29
ojwboh, 11.04, yeah21:30
ojwb11.10 isn't released yet of course21:30
ojwbsorry for the confusion21:30
ojwbcan you not get normal gnome in 11.10?21:30
ibeardsleeI'm finding that although signs of being incomplete, the 11.10 unity (2d) is behaving fairly well.21:30
ibeardsleethe 'ubuntu standard' has been removed from the default options21:31
ibeardsleeunity is growing on me21:31
ojwbhmm, I think I might be switching the old machines to debian then21:31
ibeardsleeMint is another option to consider21:32
ajmitchremoved from default options != removed from archive, afaik21:32
ibeardsleeit uses a bunch of ubuntu repos, but puts a gnome interface on it21:32
ojwbtbh unity didn't get much of a chance to impress me given it didn't really seem to work21:32
ajmitchthey've apparantly tried to keep the 'classic' interface still working21:32
ojwbbut I'm not sure I want a major change in how my desktop works21:33
ibeardsleeajmitch: oh, I thought there was a plan to remove it with 11.1021:33
ojwbso apparently canonical invested "multiple hours" in keeping it working21:37
ajmitchone frustrated developer replying to people's misinformation & miscommunication21:38
ojwbyeah, it just seemed a slightly underwhelming amount of time21:39
ojwbit is good that they haven't just dropped support for it though21:41
ajmitchdid you expect weeks of work put in to make the non-default desktop work?21:42
ajmitchthis is ubuntu, there are only about 13 weeks from UDS to feature freeze :)21:42
ojwbwell, that's calendar weeks not man weeks21:44
ajmitchright, and the desktop team is relatively small compared to the team that actually works on unity21:44
ajmitchit's a bit of an odd split21:44
ojwbnot sure I really expect anything particularly, but I think dropping support would have been a strategic misstep on their part21:45
ajmitchyeah, I think it would have pissed off a few people to just drop it altogether21:45
ajmitchI don't know how much love gnome-panel & friends are getting upstream these days21:45
snailmaybe it's part of a sekret plan to drive desktop users back to debian...21:48
ajmitchwhere people get to use gnome-shell?21:50
ojwbit would also seem odd to support KDE and XFCE as choices but not Gnome21:50
=== Milos|Netbook_ is now known as Milos|Netbook
chiltsmorning :)22:31
* thumper laments22:59
thumperthe whole unity in 11.04 thing was very political22:59
thumperwhich code shouldn't be22:59
thumperbut often gets caught up with22:59
thumperI can attest to unity being better in oneiric22:59
thumperat least on the memory side22:59
thumperas I've spent most of the last two months fixing memory leaks22:59
thumperand I've run out of ones to find for now22:59
thumperas long as no one commits, or does things I didn't think of :)23:00
snailthumper: the thing is to stop people committing...23:01
thumperI have to say that my initial response to the new alt-tab was WHY?23:02
thumperbut I'm used to it now23:02
thumperand I kinda like it23:02
thumperespecially when you use it in conjunction with alt-`23:02
ibeardsleehmm it hides behind my windows23:04
thumperthat has hopefully been fixed now23:05
thumperit is a compiz bug23:05
ajmitchthumper: does this mean you get to relax for a month or so if there are no leaks left? :)23:05
thumperour compiz person is pretty confident with it23:05
* ibeardslee just finished updating and rebooting23:06
thumperajmitch: no... not yet23:06
* ajmitch has his laptop at hom eat the moment upgrading to maverick23:06
thumperibeardslee: I'm pretty sure it hasn't been packaged yet23:06
ojwbare the non-LTS releases essentially to be regarded as "development snapshots" these days?23:06
ajmitch& maybe I'll upgrade to natty tonight23:06
ibeardsleethumper: ahh ok23:06
ajmitchojwb: I'd hope not23:06
thumperojwb: they shouldn't be23:06
ajmitchmuch effort does go into making them work still23:07
ajmitchit's just never enough to make all the bugs disappear :)23:07
thumperheh, aint that the truth23:07
thumperalthough I have to admit that the dx team is getting more time to fix bugs this cycle23:07
ojwbit does seem there are too many live releases for the man power23:08
thumperapparently there was no bug fix time last time due to rushing it in23:08
thumperojwb: we're growing :)23:08
thumperwhich isn't a quick fix23:08
thumperany strong C++ people looking for work?23:08
ajmitchI wonder if scott's writeup of his vision for the release cycle will get much discussion at UDS :)23:09
thumperI'm looking for more people in my TZ :)23:09
thumperI didn't read it23:09
thumpercare to summarise?23:09
ajmitch6-month release cycle is bad due to how canonical's performance bonuses encourage people to get stuff in by feature freeze23:10
ajmitchhis proposal seems to be for more of a rolling release23:10
ajmitch& that time-based releases shouldn't mean trying to jam as much into each release that's half-done as possible23:11
ojwbthumper: well, my C++ is good, but I think I'd probably find canonical more frustrating from the inside than the outside23:11
ojwbnot really sure I want a real job either23:11
thumperojwb: heh23:11
ajmitchmy c++ skills are poor, as you know :)23:12
mwhudsonmy c++ skills have spent at least a decade rusting23:12
thumperojwb: what do you do now?23:12
mwhudsonwhich is quite a frightening thing to realize23:12
thumpermwhudson: you don't count23:12
ojwbthumper: xapian stuff23:12
ibeardsleeI never learnt c++23:12
mwhudsonthumper: heh, why not? :)23:12
ajmitchmwhudson: you've probably done more than the few weeks I did with it at uni23:13
thumpermwhudson: unless you want to move to dx?23:13
thumpermwhudson: I'd have you23:13
mwhudsonthumper: not really, no23:13
thumperwe could brush that rust off23:13
ajmitchthough at one point I did actually do some C++ with Qt for fun23:13
thumpermwhudson: didn't think so23:13
ajmitchback in the kde 1.x/2.x days23:13
ibeardsleethumper: another bunch of updates landed .. seeing the alt-tab seems to work now23:15
* ajmitch will probably try & upgrade to oneiric this week to see what's broken23:15
thumpermy freaking touchpad is still broken23:16
* ibeardslee was impressed that his graphics tablet 'just works' now23:17
mwhudsonmy touchpad doesn't seem to work in natty, but it sucks anyway23:17
mwhudson(luckily i have a thinkpad i guess)23:17
* ajmitch rarely uses a touchpad, it's so annoying23:19
karoraajmitch: I didn't find so much stuff broken when I upgraded to Oneiric.23:20
karoraIt was when I installed it from scratch that everything seemed borked.23:20
ajmitchI expect that at least a few things will break for me23:20
ibeardsleeI had problems with the upgrade until I removed gdm23:22
ojwbthumper: I saw this and thought of you: http://fairfaxmedia.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx23:38
ojwbor your avatar rather23:38
thumperojwb: that link isn't very useful23:43
ojwboh sorry: http://fairfaxmedia.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx?newspaper=the+hutt+news&cid=182923:43

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