[02:15] hmm, is there anything happening for software freedom day in wellington this year? [02:16] http://softwarefreedomday.org.nz/Wellington is kind of vague, and the feeds seem to have last updated just under a year ago [02:21] ojwb: there was some discussion at the NZOSS agm about what could be done. There was talk of a gathering of some sort .. but not to the same scale as previous years [02:22] is it like asking when the ubuntu-nz loco is going to do something? [02:23] the events the last few years have been pretty substantial [02:23] yeah .. but feel free to step in [02:23] though I realise it's a significant effort to pull them together [02:24] ibeardslee: that requires imagination & some effort [02:24] which I lack to some degree [02:24] you're not the only one [02:25] if someone does have loco ideas, I'm sure we'd support them :) [02:27] come on baby, do the loco motion! [02:28] .. .. except ojwb's idea [02:44] lol [03:25] Yeah, SFD has had a couple of capable organisers for the last few years, but it does seem to burn them out! [03:54] is there a link to how to upgrade a desktop to 11.10 before the official release? I want the graceful upgrade by GUI tools rather than the CD image [03:54] d'oh. found it. [03:55] the CD is gui installable [03:55] it'd pick up there are new packages and check to see if you want to upgrade [03:57] ibeardslee: isn't that just for the alternate cd? [03:58] don't think so .. I'm sure when I had a oneiric desktop iso for one of the betas it asked me if I wanted to update natty [03:59] * ajmitch could be wrong, but had thought that only the alternate image contained .debs, which would make upgrading from the desktop image a bit harder [04:00] I very rarely see the installer these days [04:06] * ibeardslee could be wrong as well .. so many isos [10:35] * karora just downgraded to 11.04... [10:35] Well, for Heather's new laptop. [10:36] 11.10 just turned into instantly into a whole pile of fail. [10:39] what blew up? [19:40] morning [19:51] morning [20:22] morning [20:25] morena [21:05] morning [21:21] morning [21:22] karora: what happened? [21:27] The unity-2d thing was just totally useless. [21:27] Things were crashing every 20 seconds or so, repeatedly. [21:27] morning [21:28] I had to use the 'nomodeset' option in order to boot, so there was no 3d driver active. [21:28] karora: my impression was that unity wasn't really ready to be pushed out to the world in 11.10 [21:28] It was strange though, even things like icons were missing until I installed some of the icon packages from gnome. [21:28] you can just uninstall it and get a more normal gnome environment though [21:29] I tried using the fglrx drivers and just got a big square piece of screen corruption for a cursor. [21:29] ojwb: 11.04 or 11.10 ? [21:29] * ojwb sshes in to check [21:30] oh, 11.04, yeah [21:30] 11.10 isn't released yet of course [21:30] sorry for the confusion [21:30] can you not get normal gnome in 11.10? [21:30] I'm finding that although signs of being incomplete, the 11.10 unity (2d) is behaving fairly well. [21:31] the 'ubuntu standard' has been removed from the default options [21:31] unity is growing on me [21:31] hmm, I think I might be switching the old machines to debian then [21:32] Mint is another option to consider [21:32] removed from default options != removed from archive, afaik [21:32] it uses a bunch of ubuntu repos, but puts a gnome interface on it [21:32] tbh unity didn't get much of a chance to impress me given it didn't really seem to work [21:32] they've apparantly tried to keep the 'classic' interface still working [21:33] but I'm not sure I want a major change in how my desktop works [21:33] ajmitch: oh, I thought there was a plan to remove it with 11.10 [21:34] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2011-September/012885.html [21:37] so apparently canonical invested "multiple hours" in keeping it working [21:38] one frustrated developer replying to people's misinformation & miscommunication [21:39] yeah, it just seemed a slightly underwhelming amount of time [21:41] it is good that they haven't just dropped support for it though [21:42] did you expect weeks of work put in to make the non-default desktop work? [21:42] this is ubuntu, there are only about 13 weeks from UDS to feature freeze :) [21:44] well, that's calendar weeks not man weeks [21:44] right, and the desktop team is relatively small compared to the team that actually works on unity [21:44] it's a bit of an odd split [21:45] not sure I really expect anything particularly, but I think dropping support would have been a strategic misstep on their part [21:45] yeah, I think it would have pissed off a few people to just drop it altogether [21:45] I don't know how much love gnome-panel & friends are getting upstream these days [21:48] maybe it's part of a sekret plan to drive desktop users back to debian... [21:50] where people get to use gnome-shell? [21:50] it would also seem odd to support KDE and XFCE as choices but not Gnome === Milos|Netbook_ is now known as Milos|Netbook [22:31] morning :) [22:59] * thumper laments [22:59] the whole unity in 11.04 thing was very political [22:59] which code shouldn't be [22:59] but often gets caught up with [22:59] I can attest to unity being better in oneiric [22:59] at least on the memory side [22:59] as I've spent most of the last two months fixing memory leaks [22:59] and I've run out of ones to find for now [23:00] as long as no one commits, or does things I didn't think of :) [23:01] thumper: the thing is to stop people committing... [23:01] :-) [23:02] I have to say that my initial response to the new alt-tab was WHY? [23:02] but I'm used to it now [23:02] and I kinda like it [23:02] especially when you use it in conjunction with alt-` [23:04] hmm it hides behind my windows [23:05] that has hopefully been fixed now [23:05] it is a compiz bug [23:05] thumper: does this mean you get to relax for a month or so if there are no leaks left? :) [23:05] our compiz person is pretty confident with it [23:06] * ibeardslee just finished updating and rebooting [23:06] ajmitch: no... not yet [23:06] * ajmitch has his laptop at hom eat the moment upgrading to maverick [23:06] ibeardslee: I'm pretty sure it hasn't been packaged yet [23:06] are the non-LTS releases essentially to be regarded as "development snapshots" these days? [23:06] & maybe I'll upgrade to natty tonight [23:06] thumper: ahh ok [23:06] ojwb: I'd hope not [23:06] ojwb: they shouldn't be [23:07] much effort does go into making them work still [23:07] it's just never enough to make all the bugs disappear :) [23:07] heh, aint that the truth [23:07] although I have to admit that the dx team is getting more time to fix bugs this cycle [23:08] it does seem there are too many live releases for the man power [23:08] apparently there was no bug fix time last time due to rushing it in [23:08] ojwb: we're growing :) [23:08] which isn't a quick fix [23:08] any strong C++ people looking for work? [23:09] I wonder if scott's writeup of his vision for the release cycle will get much discussion at UDS :) [23:09] I'm looking for more people in my TZ :) [23:09] I didn't read it [23:09] care to summarise? [23:10] 6-month release cycle is bad due to how canonical's performance bonuses encourage people to get stuff in by feature freeze [23:10] his proposal seems to be for more of a rolling release [23:11] & that time-based releases shouldn't mean trying to jam as much into each release that's half-done as possible [23:11] thumper: well, my C++ is good, but I think I'd probably find canonical more frustrating from the inside than the outside [23:11] not really sure I want a real job either [23:11] ojwb: heh [23:12] my c++ skills are poor, as you know :) [23:12] my c++ skills have spent at least a decade rusting [23:12] ojwb: what do you do now? [23:12] which is quite a frightening thing to realize [23:12] mwhudson: you don't count [23:12] thumper: xapian stuff [23:12] I never learnt c++ [23:12] thumper: heh, why not? :) [23:13] mwhudson: you've probably done more than the few weeks I did with it at uni [23:13] mwhudson: unless you want to move to dx? [23:13] mwhudson: I'd have you [23:13] thumper: not really, no [23:13] we could brush that rust off [23:13] though at one point I did actually do some C++ with Qt for fun [23:13] mwhudson: didn't think so [23:13] back in the kde 1.x/2.x days [23:15] thumper: another bunch of updates landed .. seeing the alt-tab seems to work now [23:15] * ajmitch will probably try & upgrade to oneiric this week to see what's broken [23:16] my freaking touchpad is still broken [23:17] * ibeardslee was impressed that his graphics tablet 'just works' now [23:17] my touchpad doesn't seem to work in natty, but it sucks anyway [23:17] (luckily i have a thinkpad i guess) [23:19] * ajmitch rarely uses a touchpad, it's so annoying [23:20] ajmitch: I didn't find so much stuff broken when I upgraded to Oneiric. [23:20] It was when I installed it from scratch that everything seemed borked. [23:20] I expect that at least a few things will break for me [23:22] I had problems with the upgrade until I removed gdm [23:38] thumper: I saw this and thought of you: http://fairfaxmedia.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx [23:38] or your avatar rather [23:43] ojwb: that link isn't very useful [23:43] oh sorry: http://fairfaxmedia.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/viewer.aspx?newspaper=the+hutt+news&cid=1829 [23:48] :)