[05:36] good morning [06:29] hello [07:05] good morning === API is now known as Guest68170 === Guest68170 is now known as apinheiro [07:21] kamstrup: so, the crash I can get easily has been duped to bug #840758 [07:21] Launchpad bug 840758 in unity (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in dee_model_get_tag()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/840758 [07:22] kamstrup: if you are interested, I got it in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/851628 [07:22] Ubuntu bug 840758 in unity (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #851628 compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in dee_model_get_tag()" [High,Triaged] [07:22] (dee_sequence_model_find_tag()) [07:22] didrocks: looking === chrisccoulson_ is now known as chrisccoulson [07:56] njpatel, I have a easy branch to review (two lines), could you take a look ? [07:56] https://code.launchpad.net/~apinheiro/unity/Bug851103/+merge/75591 [07:56] of course, looking now [07:57] apinheiro, approved, no need to wait for alex, feel free to merge it [07:57] njpatel, ok, thanks [07:58] kamstrup: where did you see it has been freed? [07:59] kamstrup: oh, the tag address? [07:59] didrocks: yeah, segv analysis [07:59] didrocks: of course, it's just a guess [08:00] didrocks: no, the tag address is actually a stuffed uint, so that one is ok [08:00] just a guess for the priv address then :) [08:00] didrocks: but the segv analysis says: source "(%edx)" (0x00000006) not located in a known VMA region (needed [08:01] didrocks: and on the crashing line we're accessing a GPtrArray 'row' [08:01] didrocks: so it looks like 'row' may have been freed [08:03] kamstrup: yeah, indeed, but you don't know if it's self, out_row_tag or out_tag which is invalid, isnt it? [08:03] ah, the crashing line [08:04] ok, then, seems the row :) [08:04] * didrocks didn't open the source [08:04] didrocks: line 788 looks like this: [08:04] row_tag_iter = g_ptr_array_index (row, n_cols); [08:04] that's what gives the segv [08:04] yeah, I doubt n_cols is a pointer :) [08:05] so really, only options is that 'row' is bad [08:05] indeed [08:05] indeed [08:05] indeed indeed [08:05] kamstrup: so, in this case, (the last crash I got) [08:05] it wasn't on a search result, it was when I expanded the result [08:05] didrocks: with this trace? [08:06] kamstrup: well, from the duplicated one, yeah: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/851628 [08:06] Ubuntu bug 840758 in unity (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #851628 compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in dee_model_get_tag()" [High,Triaged] [08:06] same line [08:08] didrocks: i'll try adding some more fine grained tests to dee, and maybe add some clever detecting for access to freed values [08:08] kamstrup: indeed, but it would be good to know what freed those first [08:09] weird that I never ever triggered that and only with the new music lens, on u1 search [09:02] didrocks: I've added a bunch of unit tests to dee but it seems rock solid. I also added some sanity checks in the code that should help pinpoint any problems [09:03] kamstrup: nice! but that only workarounds this issue isn't it? [09:03] didrocks: do you want a release? We already have a heavily distro patched dee, and there is a fixed GI bug that hasn't been released either [09:03] didrocks: it doesn't work around this issue, but it will help a great deal in nailing it down if we can't do it today [09:04] kamstrup: well, all upload needs to be approved and sign with blood, if it can't fix the issue but add more debugging for it, I'm happy to push to a ppa? [09:04] kamstrup: I mean, the user will still get the crash, isn't it? [09:05] didrocks: to be precise: if/when we see the crash with this we can say with 99.9999% procent that it's because unity accesses a freed row [09:05] or just won't get the row because you check if it's freed? [09:05] didrocks: or if you get the crash yourself, you can just run lp:dee/0.5 locally yourself [09:05] guys, it's unity :) [09:05] kamstrup: so, maybe it's better that I package that, keep debug symbols and report a stacktrace? [09:05] didrocks: if you can get a trace with lp:dee/0.5 then that would be awesome [09:06] didrocks: and capture xsessionerrors as well [09:06] kamstrup: sure [09:06] njpatel: do you get the crasher yourself? [09:06] kamstrup: on it [09:07] njpatel: yeah, but I added some sanity checks to dee to help pinpoint what exactly unity is doing :-) [09:11] kamstrup: hum, is it building? [09:11] waow, this is a weird linkage issue [09:12] kamstrup: http://paste.ubuntu.com/690632/ [09:14] njpatel: i'll merge cimi's darken branch, ok? [09:15] kamstrup, yep, please [09:16] kamstrup: libdee-1.0.la isn't built, the message is real [09:16] "the message is real". [09:17] njpatel: I meant, it's not a path thing or the compiler is lying :) [09:17] THE COMPILER ALWAYS LIES [09:17] >njdone [09:18] "njpatel: done" [09:19] didrocks: wtf?! [09:19] kamstrup: wondering, did I tell you that I always hate those .la stuff? :) [09:19] kamstrup: trying in a pbuilder, maybe I have a local .la installed which triggered a "I can't build .la files" [09:20] didrocks: so are you compiling in some weird packaging setup or something? [09:20] kamstrup: no, we normally build everything, and at the end, we remove the .la file [09:20] kamstrup: but that's on the install part [09:21] didrocks: i just double checked a clean lp:dee/0.5 checkout and it compiles without a hitch here [09:22] kamstrup: yeah, let's see how the pbuilder build will go [09:25] mardy: hey I did a fresh checkout of your branch, and I can still reproduce that bug :( [09:25] greyback: hi! [09:25] mardy: anything I can do to help? [09:26] greyback: maybe yes: when I first requested the merge, I wrote about a few lines of code to add in order to visually debug the issue [09:26] greyback: you could add those lines, and take the video again [09:27] mardy: no prob [09:27] though I'm not sure it will be of help [09:31] kamstrup: FTBFS in a pbuilder as well [09:32] didrocks: and there is no other error message anywhere? [09:32] kamstrup: no, it just doesn't build the .la file [09:32] kamstrup: one sec [09:32] didrocks: and it's not because of some conflict with the distro patches? Ken put a tonne in there from trunk in order to get gwibber running [09:33] http://paste.ubuntu.com/690641/ [09:33] I made a little video of using Unity in Oneiric with Orca http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unityorca.ogv not great. [09:33] kamstrup: I tried to rebuild the previous version (the one in Oneiric), same thing, I guess the issue is in something triggering/not triggering the .la buid [09:34] kamstrup: see my pastebin for the full build log [09:34] kamstrup: the previous successful build seems ok though https://launchpadlibrarian.net/75306938/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.dee_0.5.18-1ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz [09:39] didrocks: not building the .la will definitely cause GI to fail as dee/Makefile.am declares --library=dee-1.0.la hard coded [09:39] kamstrup: indeed, I saw that [09:39] I don't know if/how to solve that... [09:40] kamstrup: I'm just wondering why it doesn't, the last successfull build has exactly the same output [09:40] kamstrup: yeah, neither do I, I just know that .la are a PITA and it depends on other .la file in the distro [09:42] didrocks: just toying with a solution, hang on [09:45] didrocks: pull lp:dee/0.5 [09:50] kamstrup: ahah nice trick! [09:51] didrocks: i am breathlessly awaiting the trumpets heralding the success... [09:52] kamstrup: succes! [09:52] sucess* [09:52] even [09:52] success* [09:52] grrrrr :p [09:52] kamstrup: so, making it crash with that, one sec [09:53] kamstrup: will you need the backtrace again? [09:53] didrocks: trace and xsessionerrors [09:53] oki [09:54] * didrocks rebuilds quickly without stripping the symbols [10:01] kamstrup: interesting, so I have no crash from the music lens [10:01] kamstrup: but no cover [10:01] didrocks: so you have generic icons for covers, or? [10:01] yeah, generic icons [10:02] and nothing in .xsession-errors [10:02] didrocks: not impossible that the crasher is related to icon loading in fact [10:02] kamstrup: yeah, that would totally makes sense with what I observed [10:02] didrocks: because the icon loading is async, it might be that we get some callback on the icons *after* a row has been removed, trying to access a tag [10:03] kamstrup: ahah, yeah! well thought :-) [10:04] didrocks: after a quick look at the unity code I am willing to bet this is it :-) [10:04] gord: ^^ ? [10:04] kamstrup: it couldn't be dee, it's never dee! :-) [10:06] gord any chance that the icon loader races in its callback to ResultRendererTile::IconLoaded with the removal of rows - making it access a removed DeeModelIter, and thus a freed DeeModelTag? [10:08] kamstrup, nope, unless there is a async timeframe between a row being removed from the model and the row-removed signal being called [10:09] gord: there's not [10:09] kamstrup, we'll do a mumble about this once neil starts falling over, you should hop on [10:09] gord: Dee.Model enmits row-removed and afterwards removes the row, in the same stack frame [10:10] gord: here's the race i imagine: [10:10] 1) user types "foo" [10:10] 2) model populates [10:10] 3) start loading icons [10:11] 4) user quickly deletes an o -> "fo" [10:11] 5) icon loading resulots from 3 arrives [10:11] 6) kaboom [10:11] kamstrup, nope [10:11] kamstrup, when a row is removed, its icon loader slot is removed [10:11] gord: there's no spin of the mainloop in the async icon loading? [10:12] gord: oh [10:13] gord: the stack trce on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/840758 seems to suggest you might not be correct in all circumstances [10:13] Ubuntu bug 840758 in unity (Ubuntu) "compiz crashed with SIGSEGV in dee_model_get_tag()" [High,Triaged] [10:14] this also makes perfect sense with that it's the slowly loaded http covers that triggers the bug [10:15] kamstrup, yup seen those, but literally i can't see any logic where that could happen, not dismissing the bug, its just not as obvious as you might think ;) [10:15] * kamstrup hates non-obvious bugs [10:15] :-) [10:16] AlanBell: thanks for the video. You're using Unity-2D there, and yes accessibility still needs work. [10:16] course if this was gobject i could just FOO_IS_BAR on the damn thing and it would handle it all fine, but oh well ;) [10:22] greyback: dammit, thought that was 3d! [10:23] oh, 3d won't run in a live session, need guest additions for the drivers still [10:24] AlanBell: yes unfortunately [10:24] AlanBell: thanks for the video! [10:24] I will do another video with it installed and running 3d [10:24] AlanBell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bugs?field.tag=a11y lists all the known accessibility bugs [10:28] AlanBell: I have not finished watching the video but so far I think all the ones you spotted are reported and on the way to be fixed [10:29] I filed a couple, I will reassign to unity-2d or close if they are duplicates [10:29] AlanBell: thank you! [10:30] wish we had the drivers for virtualbox guest on the CD [10:41] didrocks, is the desktop.*.cache file still used in oneiric? [10:42] mhr3: yeah, the patch has been ported AFAIK, but better to check with pitti on Monday [10:42] didrocks, ported in what way? [10:42] mhr3: ported to GNOME3? [10:43] ah, k [10:54] mardy: I reviewed https://code.launchpad.net/~mardy/unity-2d/rtl/+merge/71305 [10:54] mardy: thanks! [10:59] Kaleo: great! I'll fix those things you mentioned, but the other two would be better reported as bugs, just to get this thing in :-) [11:01] mardy: absolutely fine [11:02] mardy: it's going to require a freeze exception to land that in Oneiric. Can you please make sure https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess is followed? [11:02] Kaleo: I'll try :-) [11:03] see "UserInterfaceFreeze Exceptions" [11:03] mardy: thank you === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch === apinheiro is now known as apinheiro_lunch === apinheiro_lunch is now known as apinheiro [13:14] JohnLea: with bug 764744 are you intending to remove the System Settings link from the Session menu, or merely add System Settings to the launcher? [13:14] Launchpad bug 764744 in unity "[UIFe] Add system setting icon to Launcher" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/764744 [13:18] tedg: hi, seems that https://code.launchpad.net/~jjardon/indicator-datetime/fix-837440 was not merged but Its marked as that [13:20] tedg: also, I'd like to request a package for indicator-power, Is it kenvandine on holidays? [13:31] jjardon, Yeah, he is. [13:31] jjardon, The status is merged... [13:32] greyback: hi, what happened to your MR about alf+f2? lp now cannot find the page [13:33] mardy: I just saw what you were doing, and realised your fix was better :) [13:33] greyback: I disagree :-) [13:34] mardy: hmmm [13:34] greyback: what's wrong with your fix? It's simpler and more clear [13:34] mardy: true, but it requires reloading the lens, no? [13:34] I figured your way was more efficient [13:35] greyback: mmm... maybe [13:35] tedg: grep -r GnomeWall * doesnt return nothing here [13:35] mardy: I'll resubmit it and let Florian choose? [13:35] jjardon, Yes, so I merged it but had to back it out as the GNOME Wall clock isn't in the GTK2 version of the gnome libraries. [13:35] jjardon, Also, I looked at the GNOME Wall clock code and it's doing the same things we are doing right now. [13:37] greyback: yep [13:38] greyback: but I really like yours better; even if mine were more efficient, it just seems reasonable to reset that field when deactivateLens is called [13:39] tedg: do we support timerfd? [13:39] http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-desktop/commit/?id=5f65d7d58188ffc75ffded71c741892352411a0c [13:39] mardy: ok so. I'll do merge request again (sorry for the noise). [13:40] greyback: np. BTW, I want to ask you something: [13:41] mardy: shoot [13:41] greyback: press alt-f2, type "gedit", press enter [13:41] then close gedit end repear [13:41] does it work all the time? [13:41] greyback: for me it works every other time [13:41] greyback: bus I see with dbus-monitor that we are activating the lens item every time [13:42] mardy: yeah you're right, it only works every second time. Hmmm [13:43] jjardon, Not sure, but I think it makes more sense to wait for the GLib API (which would be stable) than using an unstable API. [13:43] greyback: I went to debug unity-applications-daemon, but then I noticed that when it's started from the command line it always works :-O [13:45] mardy: yuk. Did you see if it happens in Unity? [13:46] greyback: no, I wrote to Mikkel (kamstrup) and he said that it works fine in Unity [13:47] greyback, mardy: I am not sure what you guys are doing but one thing: the lenses are supposed to be stateful [13:47] greyback: unfortunately I don't find him online ATM [13:47] (they are not really right now) [13:47] that is, keeping the current search and filters [13:48] Kaleo: yep, the fix will make them more stateful :-) [13:50] mardy: good :) [13:52] mardy: I just tried Unity (couple of days old, updating now) & get the same problem. [13:52] greyback: good to know, thanks! I'll search LP to see if there's a bug reported [13:55] jjardon, I think we could take the timerfd stuff if it's in the Ubuntu kernel, but I don't really want to depend on the unstable GTK3 only libs. [13:55] mardy: no prob, that's a good catch [13:58] tedg: unstable GTK3 libs? [13:59] jjardon, libgnome-desktop [14:00] jjardon, The API for the wall clock is behind the UNSTABLE build flag, right? [14:00] jjardon, Not unstable like buggy, unstable API [14:02] tedg: this is something you should look I guess: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-appmenu/+bug/705653 [14:02] Ubuntu bug 705653 in unity (Ubuntu) "Menus for parent window are still present when dialog is focused" [High,Triaged] [14:04] Trevinho, Yeah [14:04] I forgot about that one :-/ [14:06] tedg: ah, yeah. Well we can ifdef the code if you want and use GnomeWallClock only if It's available. Using GnomeWallClock fix quite a lot of bugs in indicator-datetime [14:06] tedg: read my last comment.. .I also experienced that when working with panel-service to add some optimizations... [14:07] the dobule entry-added/removed signal was creating problems, so I had to use a workaround [14:07] greyback: seems to be a gedit bug, other apps work fine [14:07] jjardon, It seems like it'd be a smaller patch to just use timerfd directly, no? [14:08] mardy: why didn't I try other apps??? gah! [14:08] Trevinho, Yeah, I'm more worried about showing the menus. They should be insensitive... [14:08] Trevinho, But, yeah, we could optimize that case. [14:08] Trevinho, Just in the code when it detects a switch it doesn't handle that case well. [14:12] jbicha; the system settings link will remain in the Session menu, the change in that bug is in addition, not instead of [14:17] tedg: I didn't look at the code (sorry), but maybe a small timeout on Window switch could help... [14:17] greyback: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/840097 [14:17] Ubuntu bug 827414 in gedit (Ubuntu Oneiric) "duplicate for #840097 gedit fails to start on first try, but does on the second" [Medium,Confirmed] [14:18] mardy: how bizarre [14:19] Hi JohnLea please give a look to this too: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/818788 ;) [14:19] Ubuntu bug 818788 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) "The sequence of the applets should be easily editable by the user." [Wishlist,Incomplete] [14:20] JohnLea: thanks, since we're adding launcher items, how about bug 778289? :-) [14:20] Launchpad bug 778289 in unity (Ubuntu) "Help button in Unity default launcher" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/778289 [14:20] Trevinho, Well, FYI, it's this function, I think the comment pretty much addresses your issue: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-appmenu/trunk/view/head:/src/indicator-appmenu.c#L1085 [14:22] mardy: you seem to well understand what greyback did, how about you take care of the review? [14:24] Kaleo: I'll approve it, then: for me it's fine [14:25] mardy: great, thanks! [14:25] mardy: I'm removing https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/821919 from the milestone [14:25] Ubuntu bug 821919 in unity-2d (Ubuntu) "Oneiric (live cd only): Alt+F2 sometimes not working in Unity 2D" [Medium,Triaged] [14:28] Kaleo: no complaints from me :-) [14:31] :) [14:35] mardy, greyback, Saviq: when you send a MR out please make sure that somebody specific is assigned as a reviewer [14:35] Kaleo: ack [14:36] Saviq: replied with a fix to https://code.launchpad.net/~saviq/unity-2d/fix-panel-leak/+merge/75744 [14:38] Saviq: BTW, welcome! :-) [14:40] chrisccoulson: for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/804435 do you think we'll be able to get into Oneiric? [14:40] Ubuntu bug 804435 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Wallpaper is loaded twice with different alignment by gnome-session and nautilus (Oneiric)" [Low,Triaged] === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [14:40] Kaleo, sure. i'd like upstream to comment first though [14:40] chrisccoulson: great! [14:44] Cimi: any idea about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/839611 ? [14:44] Ubuntu bug 839611 in unity-2d "menu is first displayed as part of nautilus' desktop window before being hosted by the top panel thus shifting the wallpaper during the startup sequence" [Medium,Confirmed] [14:44] Kaleo: yup [14:45] Kaleo: that's a bug somewhere in my gtk patch [14:45] Kaleo: I might need to rewrite it [14:46] Kaleo: the thing is that out current design fails with gtk+ architecture, that's why I couldn't come up with a solution to this yet [14:46] Kaleo: but I had an idea, probably worth spending some time trying that [14:50] Cimi: I kind of see :) [14:50] Cimi: what's your gtk patch? [14:54] Kaleo: the ubuntu menubar patch [14:55] Kaleo: what is different from natty is that I'm hiding the menubar widget [14:55] Kaleo: that works better in unity and unity-2d, but nautilus is suffering :-\ [15:00] Cimi: I understand better [15:00] Cimi: do you intend to fix it soon? [15:01] chrisccoulson: do you think https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/839610 has the same cause (and patch in GTK) as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/804435 ? [15:01] Ubuntu bug 839610 in unity-2d "Background wallpaper briefly appears shifted horizontally by around 15 pixels on startup" [Medium,Confirmed] [15:01] Ubuntu bug 804435 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Wallpaper is loaded twice with different alignment by gnome-session and nautilus (Oneiric)" [Low,Triaged] [15:02] Kaleo, yeah, i think they're the same [15:02] chrisccoulson: thanks a bunch [15:05] Kaleo: maybe next week I'll have a quick look [15:07] Cimi: thanks, it's quite important [15:07] Cimi: I'll mark GTK as affected and assign it to you [15:11] Kaleo: there's already a bug filed for that [15:11] Cimi: oh, great, what's the bug number? [15:11] https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/717358 [15:11] Ubuntu bug 717358 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu Natty) "nautilus puts a menu bar at the top of the desktop" [Low,Fix released] [15:11] Cimi: thanks [15:11] Kaleo: now affects gtk+3 too [15:13] Cimi: should we reopen it then? [15:16] Kaleo: for oneiric [15:16] Kaleo: not sure I can fix that, though [15:16] Kaleo: Ill try with a workaround [15:17] Cimi: it makes the login sequence very ugly [15:19] Kaleo: :-\ [15:20] Kaleo: i didn0t write that patch [15:20] Kaleo: i just tweaked to hide the menubar [15:20] Cimi: who wrote the patch in question? [15:20] Kaleo: I was aware of that bug, but hiding the menubar has benefits for the theme [15:20] Kaleo: the gtk menubar patch was written by cody russel [15:20] Cimi: I see [15:21] Kaleo: our mistake is that we show the menubar if the appmenu is not running, for fallback [15:21] Cimi: even for the Nautilus desktop window I guess? [15:21] Kaleo: we should instead remove the menubar totally, like switching it off for the whole experience, and leave it enabled just in classic mode [15:22] Kaleo: the nautilus desktop window is just nautilus I guess, we can't hide for it [15:22] Kaleo: otherwise nautilus won't have the menubar [15:22] Cimi: should not Nautilus have a piece of code that makes sure no menubar is created for the desktop window? [15:22] maybe [15:29] tedg: what do you think? ^ [15:29] tedg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gtk/+bug/839611 [15:29] Ubuntu bug 839611 in unity-2d "menu is first displayed as part of nautilus' desktop window before being hosted by the top panel thus shifting the wallpaper during the startup sequence" [Medium,Confirmed] [15:30] Kaleo, Yes, there's a bug to update the patch for that. [15:31] tedg: great! do you have the number? [15:35] Kaleo, bug 805252 [15:35] Launchpad bug 805252 in nautilus (Ubuntu Oneiric) "appmenu shows nautilus menu when desktop is displayed" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/805252 [15:36] tedg: thanks a lot! === yofel_ is now known as yofel [16:31] is there a small 101 on how to compile unity-2d from source? [16:35] htorque, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity2D [16:35] btw it's quite easy [16:35] cmake . [16:35] make [16:35] ;) [16:37] andyrock: oops, i think i should have found that via google :D [16:37] thanks! ;) [16:38] htorque, ubuntu wiki is not so google friend [16:39] andyrock: there's nothing i need to build prior to unity-2d? [16:42] no idea about this [16:43] htorque, btw i think sudo apt-get build-dep unity-2d [16:44] i'll see if it explodes or not ;-) [16:44] ;) [17:04] hi! I want to start developing and porting lenses for unity in python, where do I start? [17:11] Ndhb, great! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses should help get you started [18:37] Hi. I have a question...hmm...unity 2d starts looking better than 3d version...it is faster, have more animations, and gives better user experience...can 3d version be rewriteen in qt like unity 2d? [18:37] and unity 2d and 3d will be perfect [18:37] *merge of unity2d and 3d [18:41] like kde [18:41] you can run it with or without hardware acceleration [18:42] unity 3d looks now really bad compared to unity 2d :( [18:46] http://ubuntuone.com/4hJIk1CeAboeNXsKv0T1ZP - wow! unity looks great! i want to use it! no...wait...it is unity 2d...so no compiz... [18:47] macer1, you can still use compiz with unity-2d ;-) [18:48] i know, but it is not the same... [18:48] please, do something with it :( [18:48] even scroolbar looks better in unity 2d... [18:54] so use unity2d! [18:55] no [18:55] because i want ubuntu to look cool out of the box :) [18:55] 2d is out of the box [18:56] but there isnt compiz integration OOTB... [18:57] user installs ubuntu. oh unity looks so cool!! installs propiertary drivers. reboot. and then "why is unity looking so bad now :( ?" [18:58] hmm, I don't think it looks worse [18:58] I think 2d is surprisingly good, and I often get confused about which one I am looking at [18:59] AlanBell: just look to the rubbish bin my friend [18:59] macer1, you could ask why duplicating the effort, but if they're doing it, i guess they have a reason for it so.. [18:59] of couse in oneric, unity 2d looks good in oneiric [19:00] I don't think 2d was expected to be so good and I don't think 3d was expected to be so problematic [19:00] i think main reason unity 3d to be gtk is gnome... [19:00] but unity 2d is made for gnome, too... [19:00] it is nux [19:01] nux + gtk3? [19:01] davmor2: so in 3d the trashcan is at the bottom of the launcher [19:03] and it is in 2d [19:03] and they both blur the background [19:03] 2d is a fraction darker than 3d I think [19:05] nux isnt cool [19:05] More than a fraction. [19:05] *isn't [19:05] hmm...it does not have any advantages over qt i think [19:05] nux is an architectural problem certainly [19:06] AlanBell: No I said look to the bin, the icons are different :) [19:06] devmor2: Icons are not diffrent in oneiric now [19:07] oh did that change [19:07] look the same to me [19:08] the main difference is that 3d breaks orca slightly more than 2d does [19:09] there is a "natural scrooling" on unity 3d launcher. 0_o [19:09] and 3d breaks onboard totally [19:10] or isn't typeable by onboard or other onscreen keyboards [19:12] if you drag an app icon from the lens and drop it on the desktop you get an error while copying dialog [19:12] error getting information about / [19:13] I really hate that you can have stuff in the launcher that isn't running [19:13] the main think i have about ubuntu is that there is qt,gtk, and mono at the same time. it is not standarized, like in osx. [19:13] *i hate [19:16] and osx have multitouch everywhere. in other thinks ubuntu is better IMO [19:16] *things [19:27] so will ayatana fix ugly unity 3d? [19:40] macer1: qt, gtk, and mono run on OS X too [19:42] but its not included by default [19:42] banshee,tomboy,unity-2d,firefox... [19:42] all that are not native apps [19:42] thunderbird in oneiric [19:42] c [19:43] what do you mean "native apps"? [19:44] gtk integration [19:44] look at elementary OS [19:44] this is perfect OS with native apps, like OSX [19:45] they look native enough to me [19:45] but it is not perfect. and I like when things are perfect :D [19:47] you could use a pure GNOME distribution if you like, or just remove the non-GNOME parts of Ubuntu [19:48] i know that. [19:48] how does Banshee not fit in? it looks like GNOME to me [19:48] yes...but mono is sooo slow [19:49] macer1: are you sure? there was a bug with the Ubuntu One plugin that was slowing Banshee down but that shouldn't be an issue now [19:51] hmm [19:52]