[05:36] <didrocks> good morning
[06:29] <Saviq> hello
[07:05] <oSoMoN> good morning
[07:21] <didrocks> kamstrup: so, the crash I can get easily has been duped to bug #840758
[07:22] <didrocks> kamstrup: if you are interested, I got it in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/851628
[07:22] <didrocks> (dee_sequence_model_find_tag())
[07:22] <kamstrup> didrocks: looking
[07:56] <apinheiro> njpatel, I have a easy branch to review (two lines), could you take a look ?
[07:56] <apinheiro> https://code.launchpad.net/~apinheiro/unity/Bug851103/+merge/75591
[07:56] <njpatel> of course, looking now
[07:57] <njpatel> apinheiro, approved, no need to wait for alex, feel free to merge it
[07:57] <apinheiro> njpatel, ok, thanks
[07:58] <didrocks> kamstrup: where did you see it has been freed?
[07:59] <didrocks> kamstrup: oh, the tag address?
[07:59] <kamstrup> didrocks: yeah, segv analysis
[07:59] <kamstrup> didrocks: of course, it's just a guess
[08:00] <kamstrup> didrocks: no, the tag address is actually a stuffed uint, so that one is ok
[08:00] <didrocks> just a guess for the priv address then :)
[08:00] <kamstrup> didrocks: but the segv analysis says: source "(%edx)" (0x00000006) not located in a known VMA region (needed
[08:01] <kamstrup> didrocks: and on the crashing line we're accessing a GPtrArray 'row'
[08:01] <kamstrup> didrocks: so it looks like 'row' may have been freed
[08:03] <didrocks> kamstrup: yeah, indeed, but you don't know if it's self, out_row_tag or out_tag which is invalid, isnt it?
[08:03] <didrocks> ah, the crashing line
[08:04] <didrocks> ok, then, seems the row :)
[08:04]  * didrocks didn't open the source
[08:04] <kamstrup> didrocks: line 788 looks like this:
[08:04] <kamstrup> row_tag_iter = g_ptr_array_index (row, n_cols);
[08:04] <kamstrup> that's what gives the segv
[08:04] <didrocks> yeah, I doubt n_cols is a pointer :)
[08:05] <kamstrup> so really, only options is that 'row' is bad
[08:05] <didrocks> indeed
[08:05] <kamstrup> indeed
[08:05] <kamstrup> indeed indeed
[08:05] <didrocks> kamstrup: so, in this case, (the last crash I got)
[08:05] <didrocks> it wasn't on a search result, it was when I expanded the result
[08:05] <kamstrup> didrocks: with this trace?
[08:06] <didrocks> kamstrup: well, from the duplicated one, yeah: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/851628
[08:06] <didrocks> same line
[08:08] <kamstrup> didrocks: i'll try adding some more fine grained tests to dee, and maybe add some clever detecting for access to freed values
[08:08] <didrocks> kamstrup: indeed, but it would be good to know what freed those first
[08:09] <didrocks> weird that I never ever triggered that and only with the new music lens, on u1 search
[09:02] <kamstrup> didrocks: I've added a bunch of unit tests to dee but it seems rock solid. I also added some sanity checks in the code that should help pinpoint any problems
[09:03] <didrocks> kamstrup: nice! but that only workarounds this issue isn't it?
[09:03] <kamstrup> didrocks: do you want a release? We already have a heavily distro patched dee, and there is a fixed GI bug that hasn't been released either
[09:03] <kamstrup> didrocks: it doesn't work around this issue, but it will help a great deal in nailing it down if we can't do it today
[09:04] <didrocks> kamstrup: well, all upload needs to be approved and sign with blood, if it can't fix the issue but add more debugging for it, I'm happy to push to a ppa?
[09:04] <didrocks> kamstrup: I mean, the user will still get the crash, isn't it?
[09:05] <kamstrup> didrocks: to be precise: if/when we see the crash with this we can say with 99.9999% procent that it's because unity accesses a freed row
[09:05] <didrocks> or just won't get the row because you check if it's freed?
[09:05] <kamstrup> didrocks: or if you get the crash yourself, you can just run lp:dee/0.5 locally yourself
[09:05] <njpatel> guys, it's unity :)
[09:05] <didrocks> kamstrup: so, maybe it's better that I package that, keep debug symbols and report a stacktrace?
[09:05] <kamstrup> didrocks: if you can get a trace with lp:dee/0.5 then that would be awesome
[09:06] <kamstrup> didrocks: and capture xsessionerrors as well
[09:06] <didrocks> kamstrup: sure
[09:06] <kamstrup> njpatel: do you get the crasher yourself?
[09:06] <didrocks> kamstrup: on it
[09:07] <kamstrup> njpatel: yeah, but I added some sanity checks to dee to help pinpoint what exactly unity is doing :-)
[09:11] <didrocks> kamstrup: hum, is it building?
[09:11] <didrocks> waow, this is a weird linkage issue
[09:12] <didrocks> kamstrup: http://paste.ubuntu.com/690632/
[09:14] <kamstrup> njpatel: i'll merge cimi's darken branch, ok?
[09:15] <njpatel> kamstrup, yep, please
[09:16] <didrocks> kamstrup: libdee-1.0.la isn't built, the message is real
[09:16] <njpatel> "the message is real".
[09:17] <didrocks> njpatel: I meant, it's not a path thing or the compiler is lying :)
[09:17] <njpatel> THE COMPILER ALWAYS LIES
[09:17] <kamstrup> >njdone
[09:18] <kamstrup> "njpatel: done"
[09:19] <kamstrup> didrocks: wtf?!
[09:19] <didrocks> kamstrup: wondering, did I tell you that I always hate those .la stuff? :)
[09:19] <didrocks> kamstrup: trying in a pbuilder, maybe I have a local .la installed which triggered a "I can't build .la files"
[09:20] <kamstrup> didrocks: so are you compiling in some weird packaging setup or something?
[09:20] <didrocks> kamstrup: no, we normally build everything, and at the end, we remove the .la file
[09:20] <didrocks> kamstrup: but that's on the install part
[09:21] <kamstrup> didrocks: i just double checked a clean lp:dee/0.5 checkout and it compiles without a hitch here
[09:22] <didrocks> kamstrup: yeah, let's see how the pbuilder build will go
[09:25] <greyback> mardy: hey I did a fresh checkout of your branch, and I can still reproduce that bug :(
[09:25] <mardy> greyback: hi!
[09:25] <greyback> mardy: anything I can do to help?
[09:26] <mardy> greyback: maybe yes: when I first requested the merge, I wrote about a few lines of code to add in order to visually debug the issue
[09:26] <mardy> greyback: you could add those lines, and take the video again
[09:27] <greyback> mardy: no prob
[09:27] <mardy> though I'm not sure it will be of help
[09:31] <didrocks> kamstrup: FTBFS in a pbuilder as well
[09:32] <kamstrup> didrocks: and there is no other error message anywhere?
[09:32] <didrocks> kamstrup: no, it just doesn't build the .la file
[09:32] <didrocks> kamstrup: one sec
[09:32] <kamstrup> didrocks: and it's not because of some conflict with the distro patches? Ken put a tonne in there from trunk in order to get gwibber running
[09:33] <didrocks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/690641/
[09:33] <AlanBell> I made a little video of using Unity in Oneiric with Orca http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/unityorca.ogv not great.
[09:33] <didrocks> kamstrup: I tried to rebuild the previous version (the one in Oneiric), same thing, I guess the issue is in something triggering/not triggering the .la buid
[09:34] <didrocks> kamstrup: see my pastebin for the full build log
[09:34] <didrocks> kamstrup: the previous successful build seems ok though https://launchpadlibrarian.net/75306938/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-i386.dee_0.5.18-1ubuntu1_BUILDING.txt.gz
[09:39] <kamstrup> didrocks: not building the .la will definitely cause GI to fail as dee/Makefile.am declares --library=dee-1.0.la hard coded
[09:39] <didrocks> kamstrup: indeed, I saw that
[09:39] <kamstrup> I don't know if/how to solve that...
[09:40] <didrocks> kamstrup: I'm just wondering why it doesn't, the last successfull build has exactly the same output
[09:40] <didrocks> kamstrup: yeah, neither do I, I just know that .la are a PITA and it depends on other .la file in the distro
[09:42] <kamstrup> didrocks: just toying with a solution, hang on
[09:45] <kamstrup> didrocks: pull lp:dee/0.5
[09:50] <didrocks> kamstrup: ahah nice trick!
[09:51] <kamstrup> didrocks: i am breathlessly awaiting the trumpets heralding the success...
[09:52] <didrocks> kamstrup: succes!
[09:52] <didrocks> sucess*
[09:52] <didrocks> even
[09:52] <didrocks> success*
[09:52] <didrocks> grrrrr :p
[09:52] <didrocks> kamstrup: so, making it crash with that, one sec
[09:53] <didrocks> kamstrup: will you need the backtrace again?
[09:53] <kamstrup> didrocks: trace and xsessionerrors
[09:53] <didrocks> oki
[09:54]  * didrocks rebuilds quickly without stripping the symbols
[10:01] <didrocks> kamstrup: interesting, so I have no crash from the music lens
[10:01] <didrocks> kamstrup: but no cover
[10:01] <kamstrup> didrocks: so you have generic icons for covers, or?
[10:01] <didrocks> yeah, generic icons
[10:02] <didrocks> and nothing in .xsession-errors
[10:02] <kamstrup> didrocks: not impossible that the crasher is related to icon loading in fact
[10:02] <didrocks> kamstrup: yeah, that would totally makes sense with what I observed
[10:02] <kamstrup> didrocks: because the icon loading is async, it might be that we get some callback on the icons *after* a row has been removed, trying to access a tag
[10:03] <didrocks> kamstrup: ahah, yeah! well thought :-)
[10:04] <kamstrup> didrocks: after a quick look at the unity code I am willing to bet this is it :-)
[10:04] <kamstrup> gord: ^^ ?
[10:04] <didrocks> kamstrup: it couldn't be dee, it's never dee! :-)
[10:06] <kamstrup> gord any chance that the icon loader races in its callback to ResultRendererTile::IconLoaded with the removal of rows - making it access a removed DeeModelIter, and thus a freed DeeModelTag?
[10:08] <gord> kamstrup, nope, unless there is a async timeframe between a row being removed from the model and the row-removed signal being called
[10:09] <kamstrup> gord: there's not
[10:09] <gord> kamstrup, we'll do a mumble about this once neil starts falling over, you should hop on
[10:09] <kamstrup> gord: Dee.Model enmits row-removed and afterwards removes the row, in the same stack frame
[10:10] <kamstrup> gord: here's the race i imagine:
[10:10] <kamstrup> 1) user types "foo"
[10:10] <kamstrup> 2) model populates
[10:10] <kamstrup> 3) start loading icons
[10:11] <kamstrup> 4) user quickly deletes an o -> "fo"
[10:11] <kamstrup> 5) icon loading resulots from 3 arrives
[10:11] <kamstrup> 6) kaboom
[10:11] <gord> kamstrup, nope
[10:11] <gord> kamstrup, when a row is removed, its icon loader slot is removed
[10:11] <kamstrup> gord: there's no spin of the mainloop in the async icon loading?
[10:12] <kamstrup> gord: oh
[10:13] <kamstrup> gord: the stack trce on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/840758 seems to suggest you might not be correct in all circumstances
[10:14] <kamstrup> this also makes perfect sense with that it's the slowly loaded http covers that triggers the bug
[10:15] <gord> kamstrup, yup seen those, but literally i can't see any logic where that could happen, not dismissing the bug, its just not as obvious as you might think ;)
[10:15]  * kamstrup hates non-obvious bugs
[10:15] <kamstrup> :-)
[10:16] <greyback> AlanBell: thanks for the video. You're using Unity-2D there, and yes accessibility still needs work.
[10:16] <gord> course if this was gobject i could just FOO_IS_BAR on the damn thing and it would handle it all fine, but oh well ;)
[10:22] <AlanBell> greyback: dammit, thought that was 3d!
[10:23] <AlanBell> oh, 3d won't run in a live session, need guest additions for the drivers still
[10:24] <greyback> AlanBell: yes unfortunately
[10:24] <Kaleo> AlanBell: thanks for the video!
[10:24] <AlanBell> I will do another video with it installed and running 3d
[10:24] <Kaleo> AlanBell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-2d/+bugs?field.tag=a11y lists all the known accessibility bugs
[10:28] <Kaleo> AlanBell: I have not finished watching the video but so far I think all the ones you spotted are reported and on the way to be fixed
[10:29] <AlanBell> I filed a couple, I will reassign to unity-2d or close if they are duplicates
[10:29] <Kaleo> AlanBell: thank you!
[10:30] <AlanBell> wish we had the drivers for virtualbox guest on the CD
[10:41] <mhr3> didrocks, is the desktop.*.cache file still used in oneiric?
[10:42] <didrocks> mhr3: yeah, the patch has been ported AFAIK, but better to check with pitti on Monday
[10:42] <mhr3> didrocks, ported in what way?
[10:42] <didrocks> mhr3: ported to GNOME3?
[10:43] <mhr3> ah, k
[10:54] <Kaleo> mardy: I reviewed https://code.launchpad.net/~mardy/unity-2d/rtl/+merge/71305
[10:54] <Kaleo> mardy: thanks!
[10:59] <mardy> Kaleo: great! I'll fix those things you mentioned, but the other two would be better reported as bugs, just to get this thing in :-)
[11:01] <Kaleo> mardy: absolutely fine
[11:02] <Kaleo> mardy: it's going to require a freeze exception to land that in Oneiric. Can you please make sure https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess is followed?
[11:02] <mardy> Kaleo: I'll try :-)
[11:03] <Kaleo> see "UserInterfaceFreeze Exceptions"
[11:03] <Kaleo> mardy: thank you
[13:14] <jbicha> JohnLea: with bug 764744 are you intending to remove the System Settings link from the Session menu, or merely add System Settings to the launcher?
[13:18] <jjardon> tedg: hi, seems that https://code.launchpad.net/~jjardon/indicator-datetime/fix-837440 was not merged but Its marked as that
[13:20] <jjardon> tedg: also, I'd like to request a package for indicator-power, Is it kenvandine on holidays?
[13:31] <tedg> jjardon, Yeah, he is.
[13:31] <tedg> jjardon, The status is merged...
[13:32] <mardy> greyback: hi, what happened to your MR about alf+f2? lp now cannot find the page
[13:33] <greyback> mardy: I just saw what you were doing, and realised your fix was better :)
[13:33] <mardy> greyback: I disagree :-)
[13:34] <greyback> mardy: hmmm
[13:34] <mardy> greyback: what's wrong with your fix? It's simpler and more clear
[13:34] <greyback> mardy: true, but it requires reloading the lens, no?
[13:34] <greyback> I figured your way was more efficient
[13:35] <mardy> greyback: mmm... maybe
[13:35] <jjardon> tedg: grep -r GnomeWall * doesnt return nothing here
[13:35] <greyback> mardy: I'll resubmit it and let Florian choose?
[13:35] <tedg> jjardon, Yes, so I merged it but had to back it out as the GNOME Wall clock isn't in the GTK2 version of the gnome libraries.
[13:35] <tedg> jjardon, Also, I looked at the GNOME Wall clock code and it's doing the same things we are doing right now.
[13:37] <mardy> greyback: yep
[13:38] <mardy> greyback: but I really like yours better; even if mine were more efficient, it just seems reasonable to reset that field when deactivateLens is called
[13:39] <jjardon> tedg: do we support timerfd?
[13:39] <jjardon> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-desktop/commit/?id=5f65d7d58188ffc75ffded71c741892352411a0c
[13:39] <greyback> mardy: ok so. I'll do merge request again (sorry for the noise).
[13:40] <mardy> greyback: np. BTW, I want to ask you something:
[13:41] <greyback> mardy: shoot
[13:41] <mardy> greyback: press alt-f2, type "gedit", press enter
[13:41] <mardy> then close gedit end repear
[13:41] <mardy> does it work all the time?
[13:41] <mardy> greyback: for me it works every other time
[13:41] <mardy> greyback: bus I see with dbus-monitor that we are activating the lens item every time
[13:42] <greyback> mardy: yeah you're right, it only works every second time. Hmmm
[13:43] <tedg> jjardon, Not sure, but I think it makes more sense to wait for the GLib API (which would be stable) than using an unstable API.
[13:43] <mardy> greyback: I went to debug unity-applications-daemon, but then I noticed that when it's started from the command line it always works :-O
[13:45] <greyback> mardy: yuk. Did you see if it happens in Unity?
[13:46] <mardy> greyback: no, I wrote to Mikkel (kamstrup) and he said that it works fine in Unity
[13:47] <Kaleo> greyback, mardy: I am not sure what you guys are doing but one thing: the lenses are supposed to be stateful
[13:47] <mardy> greyback: unfortunately I don't find him online ATM
[13:47] <Kaleo> (they are not really right now)
[13:47] <Kaleo> that is, keeping the current search and filters
[13:48] <mardy> Kaleo: yep, the fix will make them more stateful :-)
[13:50] <Kaleo> mardy: good :)
[13:52] <greyback> mardy:  I just tried Unity (couple of days old, updating now) & get the same problem.
[13:52] <mardy> greyback: good to know, thanks! I'll search LP to see if there's a bug reported
[13:55] <tedg> jjardon, I think we could take the timerfd stuff if it's in the Ubuntu kernel, but I don't really want to depend on the unstable GTK3 only libs.
[13:55] <greyback> mardy: no prob, that's a good catch
[13:58] <jjardon> tedg: unstable GTK3 libs?
[13:59] <tedg> jjardon, libgnome-desktop
[14:00] <tedg> jjardon, The API for the wall clock is behind the UNSTABLE build flag, right?
[14:00] <tedg> jjardon, Not unstable like buggy, unstable API
[14:02] <Trevinho> tedg: this is something you should look I guess: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-appmenu/+bug/705653
[14:04] <tedg> Trevinho, Yeah
[14:04] <tedg> I forgot about that one :-/
[14:06] <jjardon> tedg: ah, yeah. Well we can ifdef the code if you want and use  GnomeWallClock only if It's available. Using GnomeWallClock fix quite a lot of bugs in indicator-datetime
[14:06] <Trevinho> tedg: read my last comment.. .I also experienced that when working with panel-service to add some optimizations...
[14:07] <Trevinho> the dobule entry-added/removed signal was creating problems, so I had to use a workaround
[14:07] <mardy> greyback: seems to be a gedit bug, other apps work fine
[14:07] <tedg> jjardon, It seems like it'd be a smaller patch to just use timerfd directly, no?
[14:08] <greyback> mardy: why didn't I try other apps??? gah!
[14:08] <tedg> Trevinho, Yeah, I'm more worried about showing the menus.  They should be insensitive...
[14:08] <tedg> Trevinho, But, yeah, we could optimize that case.
[14:08] <tedg> Trevinho, Just in the code when it detects a switch it doesn't handle that case well.
[14:12] <JohnLea> jbicha; the system settings link will remain in the Session menu, the change in that bug is in addition, not instead of
[14:17] <Trevinho> tedg: I didn't look at the code (sorry), but maybe a small timeout on Window switch could help...
[14:17] <mardy> greyback: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/840097
[14:18] <greyback> mardy: how bizarre
[14:19] <Trevinho> Hi JohnLea please give a look to this too: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/818788 ;)
[14:20] <jbicha> JohnLea: thanks, since we're adding launcher items, how about bug 778289? :-)
[14:20] <tedg> Trevinho, Well, FYI, it's this function, I think the comment pretty much addresses your issue: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-appmenu/trunk/view/head:/src/indicator-appmenu.c#L1085
[14:22] <Kaleo> mardy: you seem to well understand what greyback did, how about you take care of the review?
[14:24] <mardy> Kaleo: I'll approve it, then: for me it's fine
[14:25] <Kaleo> mardy: great, thanks!
[14:25] <Kaleo> mardy: I'm removing https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/821919 from the milestone
[14:28] <mardy> Kaleo: no complaints from me :-)
[14:31] <Kaleo> :)
[14:35] <Kaleo> mardy, greyback, Saviq: when you send a MR out please make sure that somebody specific is assigned as a reviewer
[14:35] <mardy> Kaleo: ack
[14:36] <Kaleo> Saviq: replied with a fix to https://code.launchpad.net/~saviq/unity-2d/fix-panel-leak/+merge/75744
[14:38] <mardy> Saviq: BTW, welcome! :-)
[14:40] <Kaleo> chrisccoulson: for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/804435 do you think we'll be able to get into Oneiric?
[14:40] <chrisccoulson> Kaleo, sure. i'd like upstream to comment first though
[14:40] <Kaleo> chrisccoulson: great!
[14:44] <Kaleo> Cimi: any idea about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/839611 ?
[14:44] <Cimi> Kaleo: yup
[14:45] <Cimi> Kaleo: that's a bug somewhere in my gtk patch
[14:45] <Cimi> Kaleo: I might need to rewrite it
[14:46] <Cimi> Kaleo: the thing is that out current design fails with gtk+ architecture, that's why I couldn't come up with a solution to this yet
[14:46] <Cimi> Kaleo: but I had an idea, probably worth spending some time trying that
[14:50] <Kaleo> Cimi: I kind of see :)
[14:50] <Kaleo> Cimi: what's your gtk patch?
[14:54] <Cimi> Kaleo: the ubuntu menubar patch
[14:55] <Cimi> Kaleo: what is different from natty is that I'm hiding the menubar widget
[14:55] <Cimi> Kaleo: that works better in unity and unity-2d, but nautilus is suffering :-\
[15:00] <Kaleo> Cimi: I understand better
[15:00] <Kaleo> Cimi: do you intend to fix it soon?
[15:01] <Kaleo> chrisccoulson: do you think https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/839610 has the same cause (and patch in GTK) as https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/804435 ?
[15:02] <chrisccoulson> Kaleo, yeah, i think they're the same
[15:02] <Kaleo> chrisccoulson: thanks a bunch
[15:05] <Cimi> Kaleo: maybe next week I'll have a quick look
[15:07] <Kaleo> Cimi: thanks, it's quite important
[15:07] <Kaleo> Cimi: I'll mark GTK as affected and assign it to you
[15:11] <Cimi> Kaleo: there's already a bug filed for that
[15:11] <Kaleo> Cimi: oh, great, what's the bug number?
[15:11] <Cimi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/717358
[15:11] <Kaleo> Cimi: thanks
[15:11] <Cimi> Kaleo: now affects gtk+3 too
[15:13] <Kaleo> Cimi: should we reopen it then?
[15:16] <Cimi> Kaleo: for oneiric
[15:16] <Cimi> Kaleo: not sure I can fix that, though
[15:16] <Cimi> Kaleo: Ill try with a workaround
[15:17] <Kaleo> Cimi: it makes the login sequence very ugly
[15:19] <Cimi> Kaleo: :-\
[15:20] <Cimi> Kaleo: i didn0t write that patch
[15:20] <Cimi> Kaleo: i just tweaked to hide the menubar
[15:20] <Kaleo> Cimi: who wrote the patch in question?
[15:20] <Cimi> Kaleo: I was aware of that bug, but hiding the menubar has benefits for the theme
[15:20] <Cimi> Kaleo: the gtk menubar patch was written by cody russel
[15:20] <Kaleo> Cimi: I see
[15:21] <Cimi> Kaleo: our mistake is that we show the menubar if the appmenu is not running, for fallback
[15:21] <Kaleo> Cimi: even for the Nautilus desktop window I guess?
[15:21] <Cimi> Kaleo: we should instead remove the menubar totally, like switching it off for the whole experience, and leave it enabled just in classic mode
[15:22] <Cimi> Kaleo: the nautilus desktop window is just nautilus I guess, we can't hide for it
[15:22] <Cimi> Kaleo: otherwise nautilus won't have the menubar
[15:22] <Kaleo> Cimi: should not Nautilus have a piece of code that makes sure no menubar is created for the desktop window?
[15:22] <Cimi> maybe
[15:29] <Kaleo> tedg: what do you think? ^
[15:29] <Kaleo> tedg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gtk/+bug/839611
[15:30] <tedg> Kaleo, Yes, there's a bug to update the patch for that.
[15:31] <Kaleo> tedg: great! do you have the number?
[15:35] <tedg> Kaleo, bug 805252
[15:36] <Kaleo> tedg: thanks a lot!
[16:31] <htorque> is there a small 101 on how to compile unity-2d from source?
[16:35] <andyrock> htorque, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity2D
[16:35] <andyrock> btw it's quite easy
[16:35] <andyrock> cmake .
[16:35] <andyrock> make
[16:35] <andyrock> ;)
[16:37] <htorque> andyrock: oops, i think i should have found that via google :D
[16:37] <htorque> thanks! ;)
[16:38] <andyrock> htorque, ubuntu wiki is not so google friend
[16:39] <htorque> andyrock: there's nothing i need to build prior to unity-2d?
[16:42] <andyrock> no idea about this
[16:43] <andyrock> htorque, btw i think sudo apt-get build-dep unity-2d
[16:44] <htorque> i'll see if it explodes or not ;-)
[16:44] <andyrock> ;)
[17:04] <Ndhb> hi! I want to start developing and porting lenses for unity in python, where do I start?
[17:11] <gord> Ndhb, great! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses should help get you started
[18:37] <macer1> Hi. I have a question...hmm...unity 2d starts looking better than 3d version...it is faster, have more animations, and gives better user experience...can 3d version be rewriteen in qt like unity 2d?
[18:37] <macer1> and unity 2d and 3d will be perfect
[18:37] <macer1> *merge of unity2d and 3d
[18:41] <macer1> like kde
[18:41] <macer1> you can run it with or without hardware acceleration
[18:42] <macer1> unity 3d looks now really bad compared to unity 2d :(
[18:46] <macer1> http://ubuntuone.com/4hJIk1CeAboeNXsKv0T1ZP - wow! unity looks great! i want to use it! no...wait...it is unity 2d...so no compiz...
[18:47] <davidcalle> macer1, you can still use compiz with unity-2d ;-)
[18:48] <macer1> i know, but it is not the same...
[18:48] <macer1> please, do something with it :(
[18:48] <macer1> even scroolbar looks better in unity 2d...
[18:54] <AlanBell> so use unity2d!
[18:55] <macer1> no
[18:55] <macer1> because i want ubuntu to look cool out of the box :)
[18:55] <AlanBell> 2d is out of the box
[18:56] <macer1> but there isnt compiz integration OOTB...
[18:57] <macer1> user installs ubuntu. oh unity looks so cool!! installs propiertary drivers. reboot. and then "why is unity looking so bad now :( ?"
[18:58] <AlanBell> hmm, I don't think it looks worse
[18:58] <AlanBell> I think 2d is surprisingly good, and I often get confused about which one I am looking at
[18:59] <davmor2> AlanBell: just look to the rubbish bin my friend
[18:59] <c10ud> macer1, you could ask why duplicating the effort, but if they're doing it, i guess they have a reason for it so..
[18:59] <macer1> of couse in oneric, unity 2d looks good in oneiric
[19:00] <AlanBell> I don't think 2d was expected to be so good and I don't think 3d was expected to be so problematic
[19:00] <macer1> i think main reason unity 3d to be gtk is gnome...
[19:00] <macer1> but unity 2d is made for gnome, too...
[19:00] <AlanBell> it is nux
[19:01] <macer1> nux + gtk3?
[19:01] <AlanBell> davmor2: so in 3d the trashcan is at the bottom of the launcher
[19:03] <AlanBell> and it is in 2d
[19:03] <AlanBell> and they both blur the background
[19:03] <AlanBell> 2d is a fraction darker than 3d I think
[19:05] <macer1> nux isnt cool
[19:05] <nhaines> More than a fraction.
[19:05] <macer1> *isn't
[19:05] <macer1> hmm...it does not have any advantages over qt i think
[19:05] <AlanBell> nux is an architectural problem certainly
[19:06] <davmor2> AlanBell: No I said look to the bin, the icons are different :)
[19:06] <macer1> devmor2: Icons are not diffrent in oneiric now
[19:07] <davmor2> oh did that change
[19:07] <AlanBell> look the same to me
[19:08] <AlanBell> the main difference is that 3d breaks orca slightly more than 2d does
[19:09] <macer1> there is a "natural scrooling" on unity 3d launcher. 0_o
[19:09] <AlanBell> and 3d breaks onboard totally
[19:10] <AlanBell> or isn't typeable by onboard or other onscreen keyboards
[19:12] <AlanBell> if you drag an app icon from the lens and drop it on the desktop you get an error while copying dialog
[19:12] <AlanBell> error getting information about /
[19:13] <AlanBell> I really hate that you can have stuff in the launcher that isn't running
[19:13] <macer1> the main think i have about ubuntu is that there is qt,gtk, and mono at the same time. it is not standarized, like in osx.
[19:13] <macer1> *i hate
[19:16] <macer1> and osx have multitouch everywhere. in other thinks ubuntu is better IMO
[19:16] <macer1> *things
[19:27] <macer1> so will ayatana fix ugly unity 3d?
[19:40] <jbicha> macer1: qt, gtk, and mono run on OS X too
[19:42] <macer1> but its not included by default
[19:42] <macer1> banshee,tomboy,unity-2d,firefox...
[19:42] <macer1> all that are not native apps
[19:42] <macer1> thunderbird in oneiric
[19:42] <macer1> c
[19:43] <jbicha> what do you mean "native apps"?
[19:44] <macer1> gtk integration
[19:44] <macer1> look at elementary OS
[19:44] <macer1> this is perfect OS with native apps, like OSX
[19:45] <jbicha> they look native enough to me
[19:45] <macer1> but it is not perfect. and I like when things are perfect :D
[19:47] <jbicha> you could use a pure GNOME distribution if you like, or just remove the non-GNOME parts of Ubuntu
[19:48] <macer1> i know that.
[19:48] <jbicha> how does Banshee not fit in? it looks like GNOME to me
[19:48] <macer1> yes...but mono is sooo slow
[19:49] <jbicha> macer1: are you sure? there was a bug with the Ubuntu One plugin that was slowing Banshee down but that shouldn't be an issue now
[19:51] <macer1> hmm
[19:52] <macer1> if ubuntu want to be better than osx and windows it needs to be standarized
[19:52] <macer1> jbicha, it is fixed but all mono is slow
[19:53] <macer1> elementary OS is doing it right.
[19:53] <macer1> they writed gtk email client, used gtk browser.
[19:53] <macer1> and writed gtk music player
[19:53] <macer1> ubuntu should do this like elementary OS...
[19:56] <jbicha> mono is a just a programming language and it can use GTK just like Vala or C
[19:57] <macer1> ok
[19:58] <macer1> oh and libreoffice
[19:58] <macer1> but why not make a better music player, better browser, better mail client, better adress book?
[19:58] <AlanBell> go for it
[19:58] <macer1> elementary OS know that firefox,banshee,tomboy,libreoffice does not integrate well. they deleted it or maked better version
[19:59] <macer1> we can use elementary programs
[19:59] <macer1> as default
[19:59] <jbicha> macer1: there's no way we can use Marlin as default file browser for instance as it's not been released yet
[19:59] <jbicha> also we have to use Nautilus to draw the desktop icons anyway so shipping 2 file browsers is a bit silly
[20:01] <macer1> I think marlin can do that
[20:01] <jbicha> so, first upstream needs to release the apps, then they can get packaged and then they can be evaluated to see if they should replace the current default
[20:02] <jbicha> it's extremely unlikely that anything other than firefox or chromium will be the default web browser
[20:05] <jbicha> but I'll be happy to try Elementary OS out, it looks like that won't happen for at least 7 more months
[20:10] <macer1> sorry i needed to restart OS
[20:11] <macer1> so marlin in ubuntu 12.04 will be cool :D
[20:11] <macer1> and beatbox
[20:11] <macer1> and postler...
[20:56] <jbicha> macer1: those don't have a chance at being default in a Ubuntu version if there isn't a usable release by the time of the preceding UDS
[21:02] <AlanBell> are they in Ubuntu at all at the moment?
[21:02] <AlanBell> or Debian even?
[21:05] <Pendulum> \\\\/...............
[21:06] <AlanBell> o/ scotia
[21:08] <Pendulum> AlanBell: yeah, she just always has to get her paw into everything, even Unity ;-)
[21:58] <hicham> anyone trying to upstream ubuntu menu proxy patch to gtk ?