[00:14] <pythonirc101> I am looking to put a machine somewhere on the web  (fast and reliable network connection) so that i can control and host webpages (and applications written in python). I am in the US and would not like to pay too much for just electricity and network connectivity. Has anyone faced this problem here? Any pointers to solutions?
[00:15] <warzauwynn> pythonirc101: which colocation facilities have you looked at?
[00:15] <warzauwynn> pythonirc101: have you looked at VPS?
[00:16] <pythonirc101> i did not know about colocation , will look at VPS now
[00:16] <qman__> colo is expensive
[00:16] <qman__> leasing a VPS or even a dedicated server is usually much cheaper
[00:16] <warzauwynn> yeah, i'd only go colo if you need to have your own hardware, which is seldom the case.
[00:16] <TheEvilPhoenix> ^
[00:17] <TheEvilPhoenix> VPS or dedicated servers are ALWAYS better because they're cheaper
[00:17] <TheEvilPhoenix> i'm speaking from experience there :P
[00:17] <pythonirc101> what is VPS?
[00:17] <warzauwynn> virtual private server.
[00:17] <TheEvilPhoenix> virtual private server
[00:17] <TheEvilPhoenix> basically...
[00:17] <qman__> expect a colo to cost 5-10 times more than a dedicated server
[00:17] <warzauwynn> "the cloud"!!!!!! OMG
[00:17] <TheEvilPhoenix> its a server that is run virtually off of a host node
[00:17] <warzauwynn> haha
[00:17] <pythonirc101> how much cost am i looking at? for electricity and network cable?
[00:18] <qman__> and a dedicated server to cost 10-30 times more than a VPS
[00:18] <TheEvilPhoenix> pythonirc101:  for colo?
[00:18] <pythonirc101> i dont mind getting the hardware from the provider or paying for it myself.
[00:18] <qman__> at work, I'm in the process of decommissioning a colo box we pay $500/mo for
[00:18] <TheEvilPhoenix> electricity, networking, power, rent of space  in the facility, bandwidth, etc.
[00:18] <TheEvilPhoenix> not to mention the actual hardware can cost horrid amounts
[00:18] <TheEvilPhoenix> i bought a Dell PowerEdge 2500, cost me $2500
[00:18] <TheEvilPhoenix> then put that thing into colo
[00:18] <qman__> you can find dedicated servers starting around $100/mo
[00:19] <TheEvilPhoenix> ^
[00:19] <qman__> and VPSes, depending on how reliable you need them, anywhere from $5 up
[00:19] <TheEvilPhoenix> ^
[00:19] <TheEvilPhoenix> decent VPSes i've seen are around, what $20 - $30 a month?
[00:19] <TheEvilPhoenix> for reliable
[00:19] <qman__> yeah
[00:19] <pythonirc101> TheEvilPhoenix: how much do you pay per month to put that dell in colocation?
[00:20] <TheEvilPhoenix> pythonirc101:  you mean how much DID I pay
[00:21] <qman__> linux VPSes also tend to cost a lot less than windows ones
[00:21] <TheEvilPhoenix> it shifted between locations over 2 years
[00:21] <TheEvilPhoenix> but first place was $450/month
[00:21] <qman__> some places offer the same pricing for both, but that's before you factor in 20 gigs of hard drive space wasted on windows itself
[00:21] <TheEvilPhoenix> second was $49.99/month with horrid uptime reliability
[00:21] <TheEvilPhoenix> finally said "Screw this", and cancelled the colo last week
[00:21] <pythonirc101> TheEvilPhoenix: what did you do after that?
[00:22] <TheEvilPhoenix> the server is now en route to my nice, static ip, business class internet hookup :P
[00:22] <qman__> yeah
[00:22] <TheEvilPhoenix> pythonirc101:  i'm waiting on the server to arrive, but its going onto my nice business class internet
[00:22] <pythonirc101> TheEvilPhoenix: that costs me $150 for 10mbit line/month
[00:22] <qman__> in some cases it's actually cheaper to just buy a cable line and find someone who will let you store it there
[00:22] <TheEvilPhoenix> pythonirc101:  well i have an advantage...
[00:22] <TheEvilPhoenix> pythonirc101:  i dont run the business class internet
[00:22] <TheEvilPhoenix> er
[00:23] <TheEvilPhoenix> enterprise class, even
[00:23] <pythonirc101> TheEvilPhoenix: Thats cool
[00:23] <TheEvilPhoenix> one of the companies i work with does
[00:23] <TheEvilPhoenix> and they are allowing me to set the server up there
[00:23] <TheEvilPhoenix> free of charge
[00:23] <TheEvilPhoenix> (partly because they ALREADY pay me flat-fees monthly for being on-call for when their servers explode)
[00:24] <qman__> yeah
[00:24] <qman__> the actual cheapest way to run a server is to know people
[00:24] <TheEvilPhoenix> mhm
[00:24] <qman__> but the cheapest way that you can measure in dollars is VPS
[00:25] <TheEvilPhoenix> mhm
[00:25] <pythonirc101> hmmm
[00:25] <pythonirc101> I need to find someone i know who has a good internet connection and is willing to let me colocate
[00:26] <pythonirc101> how does one buy fiber connections? They probably are very expensive?
[00:26] <pythonirc101> I know that there is a dead server right outside my building
[00:26] <qman__> another reason the cost is so high for colocation
[00:27] <qman__> if you're not running the latest greatest gear, you're also wasting a lot of electricity
[00:27] <pythonirc101> qman__: i dont care about electricity for now...only one machine
[00:27] <qman__> it's just economy of scale on so many levels
[00:27] <pythonirc101> I just want to buy a good machine and put it in a good place
[00:27] <qman__> but why, exactly, do you want to do that
[00:28] <pythonirc101> or buy a good ethernet connection to my building...i somehow think that will be harder to do than to colocate
[00:28] <qman__> why is a VPS not good enough, and more accurately, why are 20 VPSes not as good?
[00:28] <qman__> because that's about the cost difference
[00:28] <pythonirc101> qman__: how much would a vps cost me?
[00:28] <pythonirc101> will they give me the latest and greatest machine with SSDs on them for the right price?
[00:28] <qman__> bottom end from reputable companies is $5/mo
[00:28] <qman__> they go up from there
[00:28] <pythonirc101> I run web apps, not just web servers
[00:29] <qman__> then you probably want a dedicated server
[00:29] <qman__> you can get quad core machines with plenty of RAM and disk space for $100/mo
[00:29] <pythonirc101> qman__: is there a vps provider that will let me be root on ubuntu and give me a good machine?
[00:29] <qman__> all of them, pretty much
[00:30] <pythonirc101> any pointers?
[00:30] <qman__> don't look below the $100 mark for a dedicated server
[00:30] <pythonirc101> http://www.vpsguides.com/vps-hosting-comparison/
[00:30] <qman__> there are some cheaper than that but they're best avoided
[00:30] <qman__> for a VPS, if you care about performance, aim $20/mo and up
[00:31] <pythonirc101> 30GB disk space on most, not an option...at leave 4TB or more disk space is what i need...and that should cost $160?
[00:31] <qman__> if you need that much space you'll have to pay more
[00:31] <qman__> but it's not unattainable in the dedicated server space
[00:32] <pythonirc101> 2x2TB drives = $200 at most today
[00:32] <pythonirc101> 30GB disk space is a joke...
[00:32] <qman__> you're not looking at all the angles
[00:32] <qman__> to keep the price down users share hardware, that's how a VPS works
[00:33] <qman__> it makes the most of the resources, and to do that, they have to limit disk space to allow for as many VPSes as the server can reasonably handle at once
[00:33] <qman__> that's why more space costs more money
[00:33] <pythonirc101> i see
[00:33] <qman__> a VPS isn't the best choice if you have such a large data requirement, look at dedicated servers instead
[00:34] <pythonirc101> qman__: or perhaps colocation
[00:34] <qman__> it's not likely you'll be able to colocate cheaper than a dedicated server, even with your requirements
[00:34] <qman__> unless you don't need datacenter quality accomodations and can stick it in someone's house with a comcast line
[00:36] <qman__> and just to give you a sense of the market
[00:36] <qman__> 4TB is _huge_ for a web server
[00:37] <pythonirc101> hmmm
[00:37] <qman__> nobody's going to have a 4TB 'plan', you'll have to shop with extra disk addons
[00:37] <pythonirc101> i do need a colocation
[00:38] <qman__> fair enough, but it's going to be expensive, no two ways around it
[00:38] <pythonirc101> hmmm
[00:38] <qman__> I assume that by having 4TB of data, you actually want to serve that data at a pretty high rate
[00:38] <qman__> and the $500/mo rate I mentioned earlier is for 1Mbit/s averaged
[00:38] <pythonirc101> unless i open up a colocation center myself and share the network bandwidth...the only expensive part is network...
[00:39] <pythonirc101> And i know there is dead fiber in front of my building
[00:39] <pythonirc101> its just a matter of if i can lease it...
[00:39] <qman__> dead fiber is usually dead for political reasons
[00:39] <qman__> not likely you'll be able to use it
[00:39] <pythonirc101> you are probably right
[00:39] <pythonirc101> the company owns it and wants to sit on it...
[00:40] <pythonirc101> no clue why
[00:40] <pythonirc101> is verizon fios reliable enough to run a server on it?
[00:41] <qman__> that depends entirely on what kind of reliability you demand
[00:41] <qman__> it's roughly the same as business class cable
[00:41] <qman__> it's not measured in nines
[00:42] <pythonirc101> hmmm
[00:43] <pythonirc101> verizon is promising $100 for 25Mbps/up/down
[00:43] <pythonirc101> http://smallbusiness.verizon.com/products/internet/fios/overview.aspx#plans
[00:47] <TheEvilPhoenix> and we all know verizon fails :P
[01:31] <bc> anyone seeing postgrey segault? jaunty
[01:32] <twb`> I'm using postgrey on lucid without problems
[01:32] <twb`> strace it?
[01:32] <bc> sorry, I was mistaken, I'm on lucid as well.
[01:34] <bc> twb`: I can't make any sense of this. Can you? -> http://pastebin.com/ZmGtua2t
[01:35] <twb`> bc: nothing obvious there
[01:42] <bc> twb`: I purged and reinstalled and it works. Apaprently something in the configuration file was being incorrectly handled.
[01:42] <bc> And apparently I can't work my hands. Keyboard. How does it work?
[01:44] <smoser> RoAkSoAx, your changes to orchestra look great.
[01:48] <twb`> bc: sorry, man, no idea
[01:48] <twb`> bc: if you have etckeeper installed, you can see what the differences were between working and broken config
[01:56] <RoAkSoAx> smoser thanks
[01:57] <RoAkSoAx> smoser.waiting fpr the branch to get merged into juju so i can release
[01:58] <T3CHKOMMIE> hey guys, i need some advice on a server setup. ive got an old P4 with HT and 3 gb of ram im thinking of putting server 10.04 lts on it and serving up a drupal site as well as hosting a minecraft server. i only have a 40 gb hdd and im trying really hard to make it as redundant as possible I was first thinking about seting up virtualbox and just doing periodic back ups of the vdi but i didnt want to waste more resources. s
[01:58] <T3CHKOMMIE> o i am not thinking of just installing ubuntu straight up. does anyone have any good ideas on how to keep a catastrophy to a minimum and how to quickly recover once this old dell finally eats it?
[02:02] <TheEvilPhoenix> T3CHKOMMIE:  not running minecraft alongside anything else is a good start
[02:03] <TheEvilPhoenix> T3CHKOMMIE:  minecraft servers require MINIMUM 2GB to run.
[02:03] <TheEvilPhoenix> to run effectively*
[02:04] <T3CHKOMMIE> TheEvilPhoenix, i have a XBMC install running all this crap right now and the mini ITX board can only support 2 gb... so im going to have to move to the P4 i was just wondering if anyone new of a way for me to keep this thing backed up up-to-the-day so that if... i mean... WHEN it crashes my site and other services will only be down for a short time... any tricks?
[02:04] <T3CHKOMMIE> ideally i wanted to be running all this stuff on a NICE esxi box... but alas, i dont have the $$$ for that kinda setup just yet.
[03:25] <bc> twb`: no problem, all good. thanks for help
[03:25] <twb`> np
[05:53] <koolhead11> hi all
[07:53] <jamespage> morning all
[09:31] <ttx> Daviey: could you have a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~tpatil/nova/lp782364/+merge/75259
[09:31] <ttx> Daviey: if you ok with it, I'll merge it in the Essex packaging branch
[09:31] <ttx> Daviey: that said, we consider adding that to diablo too, since the option seems useful if you actually wants FloatingIPs to be usable
[09:32] <ttx> iputils-arping is in main so damage is limited, but wanted your opinion first
[09:43] <jamespage> Daviey, SpamapS: do we now have a working eucalyptus in universe?
[09:48] <Daviey> jamespage: seems so, testing would help.. :)
[09:48] <Daviey> ttx: looking
[09:49] <jamespage> Daviey: right - I need to test it for a proposed upgrade to libasm3-java to support a late FFE for eclipse 3.7
[09:49] <jamespage> Daviey: I've never actually installed it from anywhere other than the ISO - where do I find instructions
[09:49] <jamespage> (and good morning BTW)
[09:49] <Daviey> morning.
[09:50] <Daviey> jamespage: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEC/PackageInstall
[09:50] <jamespage> ta
[09:51] <jamespage> fmd
[09:54] <Daviey> ttx: landing in the Essex branch is no problem.. if it's going to be backported to Diablo, then it looks OK.. and not even enabled by default.
[09:54] <ttx> yep
[09:55] <ttx> ok, I'll make it happen
[09:59] <Daviey> make it so.
[10:00] <soren> http://bit.ly/nzpN73
[10:05]  * jamespage restarts his install
[10:06] <jamespage> network installs don't like it when the power goes off
[10:46] <phretor> is it possible that upgrading from 10.10 server "automagically" installed XEN and spontaneously configured GRUB to boot from a DOM0 that I haven't obviously configured (not being aware of it)?
[10:53] <jamespage> Daviey: hmm it was reticent to startup without a kick
[10:54] <Daviey> jamespage: what sort of kick?
[10:55] <jamespage> Daviey: its hanging during startup - "wget -q -T10 -t1 -O- --no-check-certificate https://192.168.1.52:8443/register"
[10:55] <jamespage> during initial configuration
[10:56] <Daviey> hmm
[10:56] <jamespage> I think its when the various components try to "restart eucalyptus" in postinst
[10:56] <Daviey> this happend once before..
[10:59] <jamespage> I can't get a response from  https://192.168.1.52:8443/register either
[11:03] <jamespage> Daviey: any pointers on that one
[11:05] <Daviey> jamespage: Honestly, i cannot remember.. I think one of the components didn't quite start properly.
[11:05] <Daviey> I'm sorry i'm not being more help.
[11:05] <jamespage> Sounds a bit like bug 503180
[11:06] <Daviey> Hmm
[11:06] <jamespage> but I don't think its the same issue
[11:06] <Daviey> not sure it is, but could well be
[11:12] <jamespage> Daviey: it gets there in the end by waits for 60 x 10 seconds before giving up
[11:14] <Daviey> jamespage: Hmm.. maybe best to defer it and speak with upstream later on today.
[11:40] <jamespage> Daviey: hmm - odd that I can get that URL using chromium from my laptop
[11:40] <jamespage> but not using wget or curl
[11:43] <Daviey> jamespage: wait, it doesn't working by using curl on your laptop?
[11:43] <Daviey> or just not from the dev box, accessing localhost?
[11:44] <jamespage> either - I get the same thing from curl on both the euca install - localhost - or remotely
[11:44] <jamespage> works OK in firefox as well
[11:44] <jamespage> * SSLv3, TLS handshake, Client hello (1):
[11:44] <jamespage> * Unknown SSL protocol error in connection to 192.168.1.52:8443
[11:44] <jamespage> * Closing connection #0
[11:44] <jamespage> curl: (35) Unknown SSL protocol error in connection to 192.168.1.52:8443
[11:46] <jamespage> hmm - I don't think this is actually euca
[11:46] <jamespage> Daviey: ^^ - if I run the wget command from a natty chroot - it works just fine
[11:47] <jamespage> but not from oneiric
[11:48] <Daviey> jamespage: ahhhhh
[11:48] <Daviey> We dropped SSLv2 support this cycle... i wonder if it is that?
[11:48] <Daviey> 12:44 < jamespage> * SSLv3, <-- bah
[11:53] <jamespage> Its using SSLv3
[11:55]  * jamespage scratches his head
[11:58] <jamespage> Daviey: ignore my natty observation - think that was  red herring
[11:58] <jamespage> but it did work - think that euca just unfroze or something
[12:12] <Goatesper> i setup my login. i see it. but i cannot be accepted?
[12:12] <Goatesper> http://i.imgur.com/J9DdG.png
[12:13] <Goatesper> i also did ubuntu-prosper
[12:14] <Goatesper> wtf. where is the ubuntu serverh andbook
[12:17] <Pici> !serverguide | Goatesper
[12:17] <Goatesper> i see. i did admin-prosper
[12:17] <Goatesper> that was the minor difference
[12:17] <Goatesper> 10.04 is same as 11.04?
[12:18] <Goatesper> -bookmark
[12:18] <Pici> Goatesper: No, but 10.04 is...
[12:18] <Pici> meh.
[12:35] <jamespage> SpamapS, give me a ping when you start today please
[12:36] <jamespage> trying to verify that euca might just be usable in oneiric
[12:37] <Daviey> jamespage: SpamapS is the new expert for euca btw :)
[12:37] <jamespage> really? how interesting
[12:37] <jamespage> I saw he applied the upstream patch yesterday
[12:38] <Daviey> jamespage: Yeah, that made it his problem :)
[12:39] <jamespage> hehe
[12:49] <zul> morning
[12:49] <zul> sucks to be him :)
[12:49] <Daviey> afternoon zul
[12:50] <ttx> Daviey: sounds like a blame.
[12:50] <zul> Daviey: no its morning
[12:54] <rbasak> What's the preferred API entry point to have Python API access to openstack? euca2ools.commands? boto?
[12:54] <zul> depends on what you want to do
[12:55] <rbasak> I want API access to stuff like euca-run-instances
[12:55] <zul> boto
[12:55] <rbasak> OK cool, thanks
[12:55] <jamespage> +1 on boto
[12:55]  * rbasak is familiar with boto already, so that's convenient :)
[13:04] <Daviey> rbasak: if you need concurrency, use txAWS.
[13:04] <Daviey> .. which i am still trying to get my head around
[13:07] <zul> ive seen problems with txaws against openstack though
[13:08] <Daviey> zul: oh?  Where?
[13:08] <zul> with ensem...i mean juju
[13:09] <Daviey> zul: I think SpamapS fixed that yesterday
[13:09] <zul> probably
[13:37] <vstepanov> hi
[13:38] <vstepanov> does anybody know about posibilities to enable hugepages in EC2 cloud?
[14:05] <smoser> Daviey, around ?
[14:06] <Daviey> smoser: no.
[14:06] <Daviey> err, yes
[14:07] <smoser> so...
[14:07] <smoser> nova
[14:07] <smoser> what is the plan for nova and beta ?
[14:07] <smoser> are we expecting an upload prior to?
[14:07] <Daviey> smoser: as in a new snapshot?
[14:07] <smoser> yeah
[14:07] <Daviey> yah
[14:07] <smoser> k
[14:07] <zul> im uploading a version as we speak
[14:07] <Daviey> zul i believe is driving that
[14:07] <smoser> ah.
[14:07] <smoser> well.
[14:07] <smoser> i'd like to ask for one on tuesday
[14:07] <smoser> :)
[14:08] <zul> why tuesday?
[14:08] <smoser> cause thats later than today
[14:08] <zul> nova releases on thursday
[14:08] <smoser> we release on thursday, so thats too late
[14:08] <smoser> :)
[14:08] <zul> ok i can do one on tuesday as well
[14:09] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/690824/
[14:09] <Daviey> zul: can you include bug numbers for bugs with a ubuntu task?
[14:09] <smoser> thats the list of stuff that i'm racing to get in.
[14:10] <Daviey> smoser: you are a rock star
[14:10] <smoser> if someone wants to write some python code to say "is this qcow image compressed" , that would rock
[14:10] <zul> smoser: jeebus
[14:10] <smoser> anyone ?
[14:10] <smoser> bueler ?
[14:11] <zul> smoser: heh ok...i have at least one fix to get in as well
[14:11] <Daviey> smoser: can you produce two small qcow files?
[14:13] <smoser> you mean for you to test with ? Daviey ?
[14:13] <smoser> yeah, its easy
[14:13] <Daviey> smoser: yah
[14:15] <smoser> truncate --size 100M my-raw.img
[14:15] <smoser> mkfs.ext3 -L himom my-raw.img -F
[14:15] <smoser> qemu-img convert my-raw.img -O qcow2 my-qcow2.img
[14:15] <smoser> qemu-img convert my-raw.img -O qcow2 -c my-qcow2-compressed.img
[14:16] <smoser> $ ls -l my-*.img
[14:16] <smoser> -rw-r--r-- 1 smoser smoser    344576 2011-09-16 10:15 my-qcow2-compressed.img
[14:16] <smoser> -rw-r--r-- 1 smoser smoser   3014656 2011-09-16 10:15 my-qcow2.img
[14:16] <smoser> -rw-rw-r-- 1 smoser smoser 104857600 2011-09-16 10:15 my-raw.img
[14:16] <smoser> i can give you some logs of conversation i had in #kvm also regarding it.
[14:16] <Daviey> smoser: fancy dropping it all in a mail?
[14:16] <Daviey> easier for me to put it together. :)
[14:17] <smoser> sure.
[14:17] <Daviey> ta
[14:21] <smoser> Daviey, http://paste.ubuntu.com/690838/
[14:22] <smoser> if you want to mail that to yourself, go ahead.
[15:00] <RoAkSoAx> Daviey smoser adam_g zul kirkland FYI, I'm changing everything that says ensemble to juju in Orchestra that will be released later today
[15:01] <zul> ack
[15:01] <RoAkSoAx> so if something breaks just let me know ;)
[15:02] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: good luck
[15:03] <Daviey> RoAkSoAx: rocking
[15:26] <Daviey> jamespage / zul: bug 825670 fix has landed in oneiric now?
[15:27] <zul> Daviey: it should have yes
[15:27] <Daviey> zul: Are you working on bug 802402?
[15:27] <zul> Daviey:  no i havent i can figure that out now
[15:29]  * Daviey eats
[15:30]  * RoAkSoAx hungry
[15:34] <genii-around> It is possible to classify vlan traffic with u32 ?
[15:46] <hallyn> smoser: SpamapS: so should libvirt-bin switch from starting on 'stopped networking RESULT=ok' to using static-network-up?
[15:47] <hallyn> I'm thinking it needs to.  And I'm not sure what we do about SRU for that (since static-network-up doesn't exist in natty and earlier)
[15:51] <just-a-visitor> genii-around: see http://brownian.org.ua/?p=189&langswitch_lang=en if it applies to your problem
[15:52] <genii-around> just-a-visitor: Reading, thanks
[15:53] <hallyn> no, wait
[15:53] <hallyn> I think from oneiric onward we can drop that from libvirt
[15:54] <hallyn> bc it starts on runlevel, but rc-sysinit starts on static-network-up, so libvirt will now automaticlaly wait for all netdevs to be up?
[15:54] <hallyn> SpamapS: jhunt: ^
[16:03] <jamespage> Daviey: whos the best person to talk to upstream from euca?
[16:10] <magicblaze007> I've a machine at home and would like to run apache from here (dynamic ip). Does anyone know to point my dns to this apache box? I guess i'll have to do port forwarding...I use zoneedit for dns for now.
[16:14] <magicblaze007> I guess I'll try to use ddclient
[16:15] <SpamapS> hallyn: +1 thats what I would like to see from most daemons.. 'start on runlevel [2345]'
[16:16] <hallyn> SpamapS: ok, i opened bug 852000 for that.
[16:16] <hallyn> SpamapS: but we missed freeze.  not sure we can sneak something like this in for o at all any more?
[16:18] <hallyn> SpamapS: so is there any way that static-network-up will get SRUd?
[16:19] <SpamapS> hallyn: the event, maybe, the rc-sysinit change, never.
[16:19] <hallyn> the event would be ok, then libvirt could start on that
[16:20] <hallyn> bc start on stopped networking is insufficient
[16:22] <hallyn> SpamapS: was all the work for static-network-up contained within the ifupdown package?
[16:24] <Daviey> jamespage: grazino
[16:27] <SpamapS> hallyn: no, upstart has the failsafe and rc-sysinit changes
[16:27] <SpamapS> hallyn: the event though, yes, is self contained in ifupdown
[16:28] <SpamapS> jamespage: you rang?
[16:28] <jamespage> SpamapS: hey - yes
[16:28] <jamespage> although I may have answered by question since
[16:29] <jamespage> I wanted to check what testing you did of the eucalyptus upload yesterday
[16:29] <jamespage> I've been testing today and its distinctly unhappy
[16:29] <hallyn> SpamapS: is the failsafe change to work around the rc-sysinit change?  I.e. if we don't have rc-sysinit change but we have static-net-up we don't need the failsafe, right?
[16:30] <jamespage> its not your upload BTW
[16:34] <hallyn> SpamapS: ok, full disclosure :)  are you already planning on doing the static-net-up fix for lucid 10.04.4 for bug 580319 ?
[16:42] <hallyn> All right I think I have to take a stab at it
[16:48] <SpamapS> hallyn: I don't think we're going to be able to SRU that. Its a massive change in behavior.
[16:49] <SpamapS> jamespage: I smoke tested euca.. started it up, was able to login to the clc .. did a couple of reboots.. not much else
[16:49] <jamespage> SpamapS, hrm - interesting
[16:50] <jamespage> SpamapS: I'm hitting this issue - and so is TeTeT during upgrades
[16:50] <jamespage> wget can't talk to the clc over http://xxx:8443
[16:50] <jamespage> chromium and firefox can
[16:51] <jamespage> bug 851900
[16:52] <Daviey> jamespage: this is wget on both localhost and your laptop?
[16:53] <jamespage> Daviey: yep
[16:53] <jamespage> sometimes you get no reponse, sometimes a partial and sometime full
[16:53] <jamespage> but most times no response
[16:54] <Daviey> jamespage: i wonder if this is a bridge issue?
[16:54] <Daviey> maybe X based browsers are more aggresive in trying?
[16:54] <jamespage> Daviey: same issue on localhost
[16:55] <jamespage> I did sniff the network packets - they looked OK
[16:55] <Daviey> jamespage: Yeah, but does that actually use lo directly?
[16:55] <jamespage> i.e. no unexpected RST's etc...
[16:55] <Daviey> hmm.
[16:55] <jamespage> Daviey: I think so
[17:02] <warzauwynn> how do you control which TTY is selected when the system boots up?  one of my machines is always going to a blank tty, no clue why.
[17:03] <SpamapS> warzauwynn: vt.handoff=#
[17:03] <SpamapS> warzauwynn: in the kernel args in grub
[17:03] <warzauwynn> w00t, thanks
[17:04] <Daviey> SpamapS: Is juju naming transition complete?
[17:04] <SpamapS> Daviey: trunk has been renamed
[17:04] <SpamapS> Daviey: I'm preparing a FFe for the renaming of the binary packages and such, to also be timed with landing a couple other things we already planned to land late.
[17:06] <smoser> hallyn, surely we're allowed to fix bugs still
[17:06] <smoser> (regarding "SpamapS: but we missed freeze.  not sure we can sneak something like this in for o at all any more?")
[17:07] <jamespage> Daviey: I subscribed graziano to the bug report and requested some help
[17:10] <hallyn> smoser: which one is that in referecne to?
[17:11] <hallyn> smoser: the oneiric one is just a cleanup - no misbehavior without it
[17:11] <hallyn> smoser: the other stuff is only for natty and earlier
[17:11] <smoser> oh. i thought you were saying for oneiric.
[17:11] <smoser> we've long missed "freeze" for natty
[17:11] <smoser> i think that was about 6 months ago
[17:14]  * RoAkSoAx will be back in an hour
[17:15] <hallyn> smoser: i must have missed that email
[17:15] <hallyn> j/k
[17:15] <warzauwynn> SpamapS: weird, changing the TTY didn't help… whenever i boot up, regardless of which TTY is selected it always starts with a blank window.  I have to switch away and back to get any text to display on that tty.  any ideas?
[17:16] <hallyn> smoser: do you think that this part;
[17:16] <hallyn>   * invoke dhclient3 with '-1', meaning it should exit failure if it does
[17:16] <hallyn>     not receive a response in 60 seconds. (LP: #838968)
[17:16] <SpamapS> warzauwynn: no, that is weird. What release?
[17:16] <hallyn> should be part of an SRU for static-network-up?
[17:17] <warzauwynn> it's 11.04, been upgraded through at least one version of 10, maybe starting at 9.
[17:17] <warzauwynn> it's been a problem for a while and i've always just dealt with it…
[17:17] <warzauwynn> not like it's a huge problem either, just kinda odd.
[17:18] <smoser> hallyn, i would think you should not do that.
[17:18] <hallyn> smoser: ok
[17:18] <SpamapS> yeah thats not going to work out
[17:18] <SpamapS> Too much behavior change.
[17:18] <smoser> and unfortunately, that, static-network-up is not really going to work
[17:18] <hallyn> smoser: why?
[17:18] <smoser> s/, that,/without that/
[17:19] <smoser> because thats what makes static-network-up wait for all network devices to be up
[17:19] <smoser> previously ifup did not wait
[17:19] <smoser> it just waited for 60 seconds and then went on with life, pretending it did it
[17:19] <hallyn> well,
[17:19] <hallyn> as far as libvirt is concerned i think that's fine
[17:19] <smoser> i think introducing static-network-up without that is just asking for issues.
[17:19] <hallyn> if your networking hasn't come up after 60 seconds, then you have probelms anyway
[17:20] <hallyn> right now autostart VMs fail.  Making it so only ppl with bad setups have problems seems an improvement to me.
[17:23] <smoser> maybe.
[17:24] <smoser> even probably
[17:26] <hallyn> smoser: i'm going to try out lp:~serge-hallyn/ubuntu/natty/ifupdown/static-net-up
[17:36] <i0n> anyone know/have of a apache2.2.22 package?
[17:41] <SpamapS> smoser: what hallyn is saying makes sense. Waiting 60 seconds for something to happen might be better in the general case.
[17:41] <SpamapS> That said..
[17:42] <SpamapS> 11.10 is out in a month..
[17:42] <SpamapS> 12.04 out in 7 months..
[17:42] <SpamapS> There are workarounds to the issues..
[17:42] <smoser> does lucid have this problem ?
[17:42] <SpamapS> yes
[17:42] <SpamapS> 9.10 introduced it
[17:42] <smoser> its valid to find *a* fix for 10.04
[17:42] <SpamapS> when we stopped waiting for all interfaces to be up on boot
[17:42] <smoser> 11.10 is 'meh'
[17:43] <smoser> lts and libvirt not working is embarrasing
[17:43] <SpamapS> Way more than libvirt is broken
[17:43] <SpamapS> *anything* that binds to an interface
[17:48] <SpamapS> smoser: what bug did I say we missed freeze on?
[17:48] <smoser> you didnt.
[17:49] <smoser> hallyn, did
[17:49] <SpamapS> Oh ok
[17:55] <hallyn> SpamapS: hm, 'start: Unknown parameter: JOB
[17:56] <SpamapS> hallyn: who when?
[17:58] <hallyn> SpamapS: when reinstalling ifupdown on natty
[17:58] <hallyn> from network-interface-security.conf
[17:59] <SpamapS> hallyn: sorry I'm not sure what that means.. have to step away for a few minutes.. will ping when I return
[18:00] <hallyn> ok
[18:03] <kees> hallyn: that would imply upstart has regressed?
[18:03] <hallyn> kees: i don't know, i need to reproduce and make sure i'm not responsible
[18:05] <kees> the use of JOB stuff in network-interface-security.conf is from me, but it really should work fine in natty
[18:05] <kees> hallyn: is it disk corruption? what does the file look like? JOB is only part of the "instance" line ..
[18:09] <hallyn> no, it's not me
[18:09] <hallyn> apt-get install --reinstall ifupdown in natty gives that line
[18:10] <hallyn> kees: yes, it doesn't do it in oneiric, so it must be an upstart difference
[18:15] <kees> hallyn: can you pastebin your network-interface-security.conf file somewhere? it works for me in natty
[18:15] <kees> well, it works for everyone but you in natty. ;)
[18:16] <hallyn> kees: apt-get install --reinstall ifupdown didn't do it for you?
[18:16] <hallyn> it was a fresh, newly created, up to date natty vm
[18:16] <hallyn> i'll recreate again
[18:17] <magicblaze007> is anyone using ddclient of ipcheck here?
[18:18] <kees> hallyn: can you pastebin your file?
[18:18] <hallyn> kees: not until the vm is recreated
[18:18] <kees> oh heh
[18:19] <hallyn> kees: http://paste.ubuntu.com/691011/
[18:20] <hallyn> kees: http://paste.ubuntu.com/691012/  that is the error msg
[18:21] <kees> how strange. but everything still works, right?
[18:21] <hallyn> yeah
[20:15] <internalkernel> Im using rsync to create incremental backups, how can I remove the duplicate (i.e. unchanged) files from a snapshot? I want to prune all the files that are duplicates, and tar ball only the changed files...
[20:16] <internalkernel> I haven't seen an easy way to do this yet, does anyone have suggestions?
[20:26] <SpamapS> internalkernel: tar has a --newer path/to/a/file
[20:30] <internalkernel> hmmmm.... SpamapS thanks I'll look into that... I hadn't thought of using tar directly, I was still trying to make rsync do it... :)
[20:31] <SpamapS> internalkernel: not sure what exactly you want rsync to do.
[20:33] <internalkernel> SpamapS:  Maybe I was mistaken, but I thought I had read somewhere that rsync's --remove-source-files option could have been tailored to remove duplicates between two directories
[20:41] <m_3> internalkernel: find has a -newer option too
[21:00] <marko_> [13:53] <marko_> am hoping to try out El Diablo on Oneiric [13:53] <marko_> would like to understand how best to layout my server [13:53] <marko_> i have a HP system i can devote to this [13:54] <marko_> can either have raid0 with 146 GB and RAID5 with about 400 GB [13:54] <marko_> or can move a couple drives and make RAID0 have 72 GB and more for RAID5 [13:55] <marko_> also, curious if i should install ESXi first, then create 
[21:00] <marko_> sorry bout that
[21:00] <marko_> i composed a big note and tried to copy paste..  not too clear i'm afraid
[21:06] <marktma> am hoping to try out El Diablo on Oneiric. would like to understand how best to layout my server. i have a HP system i can devote to this Can either have raid0 with 146 GB and RAID5 with about 400 GB or can move a couple drives and make RAID0 have 72 GB and more for RAID5  Also, curious if i should install ESXi first, then create the ElDiablo server for OpenStack or just go on bare metal with Oneiric
[21:07] <marktma> i guess knowing that OpenStack mimics EC2, am curious if i need to configure for S3 as well, or just EC2
[21:10] <marktma> is this the right place to ask about ElDiablo?
[21:11] <marktma> or should i go somewhere else?..  like a bull riding IRC channel?
[22:28] <Wild_> Hey, I need to make a new account, that only has access to /var/www (to edit the website) via SFTP or FTP, what do I do? (and yes, I googled it)
[22:35] <Wild_> anyone there?
[22:36] <Wild_> ANYONE HERE?
[22:43] <SpamapS> Wild_: I like 'scponly' for that
[22:44] <Wild_> wow an asnwer
[22:44] <Wild_> lol
[22:44] <Wild_> what is that?
[22:44] <Wild_> a package?
[22:44] <SpamapS> Wild_: yeah
[22:44] <Wild_> What does it do?
[22:50] <scubes13> anyone around using SoGo authenticating against AD and connecting to extermal IMAP server? I have been googling and cant find any walk thru or example that I can follow
[22:53] <SpamapS> scponly - Restricts the commands available to scp- and sftp-users
[22:53] <SpamapS> Wild_: ^^
[22:54] <Wild_> I have no clue how to set that up
[22:54] <Wild_> I just have to use a free host I guess :/
[22:56] <SpamapS> Wild_: well it does have a manual.
[22:57] <SpamapS> Wild_: the steps largely involve "install it... create a user... chsh -s /usr/bin/scponly username"
[22:57] <SpamapS> Wild_: an additional step may be to change the web server configuration so it reads its files from their home dir.
[23:17] <jj995_> I'm using systemimager to try to copy one system to another, and now my /boot directory is empty -- this system will no longer boot with kernel images in /boot, right?
[23:18] <jj995_> s/with kernel/without kernel