[02:39] <ScottSanbar> Question:  I need help with the following lintian output.  I understand the .ex stuff, but not the rest:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/691128/
[02:42] <arand_> ScottSanbar: As a general rule, running "lintian-info -t tag-name-here" will give you a good bit of information
[03:43] <ScottSanbar> arand_: Thanks!  I cleaned up all the lintian errors using that information!  I really appreciate the help! :)
[04:00] <ScottSanbar> Question:  OK, I updated my package/build so that it has no lintian errors, but that included changing from "native" to "quilt".  It builds fine on my home PC running natty, but when I try to run it on launchpad with a recipe doing an autobuild, it gives the error in the following pastebin.  What am I doing wrong?  Also, I have typed bzr launchpad-login scott-sanbar, but launchpad keeps giving me the error you can see in the pasteb
[04:01] <ScottSanbar> Question (continued): I found a bug dated 5-15-11 that says you have to merge in a quilt patch from another branch that does nothing to get past this bug in launchpad.  Is this true?
[04:14] <ScottSanbar> Question:  If you are interested in helping with the above question, my launchpad link for the code/package is: https://code.launchpad.net/~scott-sanbar/hello/main
[04:15] <ScottSanbar> And yes I know I need to change the package name from hello to something else because hello is taken but that is my next thing after I get it working well as is.
[04:24] <ScottK> ScottSanbar: That's probably a question for #launchpad (for PPA support) or #ubuntu-packaging.
[04:25] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  OK, thanks - have you looked at my package in launchpad?  I am curious if it is basically in good shape now:  https://code.launchpad.net/~scott-sanbar/hello/main
[04:26] <ScottK> No.  I'm redirecting you to the other channels as you're more likely to find people interested in helping with non-Ubuntu packages.
[04:27] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  Oh, ok - I understand.  MOTU is specifically for Ubuntu packages, not necessarily just learning packaging?
[04:27] <ScottK> Yes.
[04:27] <ScottK> Most people are willing to give some help here, but beyond a certain point you're better off asking in channels not focused on Ubuntu.
[04:28] <ScottK> You may also find willing help here too, but for me it's really late and I'm tired.
[04:29] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  OK, glad to know it - I appreciate the help to the point you are willing to give it.
[04:43] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  I would like to refer you to the following site which probably needs to be updated so that new people like me do not get the improper impression that #ubuntu-motu is the goto channel for new people learning packaging:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
[04:48] <ScottK> Good point.  Thanks.
[04:51] <ScottSanbar> ScottK: As for me, I am somewhat embarrassed now for havig asked so many beginner questions here when I should have been asking in #launchpad and #ubuntu-packaging.  I hope someone will update the wiki to include those channels as the correct channels for beginner questions. Sorry for all the bothersome questions!!! :(
[04:53] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  Or, actually, I guess I am a little confused - is the wiki actually correct, and I am in the right place, or should I really be asking on the other two channels???
[04:54] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  (Sorry for allt he questions - I know you are tired - don't answer if you don't feel like it :))
[04:54] <ScottK> ScottSanbar: It's OK.
[04:54] <ScottK> People do ask and get help here, it's just that there are other resources too.
[04:55] <ScottSanbar> OK, thanks - I'll use the other channels and try not to be too bothersome in general, I guess :)
[04:57] <ScottSanbar> ScottK: BTW, I have already joined and asked my question on those channels, and thank you very much for pointing them out to me - I never saw them on any of the wikis.  You have been a great help :)
[04:57] <ScottK> ScottSanbar: I'd prefer you stay here and work in fixing stuff in Ubuntu ...
[04:57] <ScottK> ;-)
[04:57] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  Do I seem to be doing well, then, I guess????
[04:58] <ScottK> You're getting started and learning.  That's good.
[04:59] <ScottK> The fact that you were able to make use of the detailed lintian information and fix things tells me you already have a lot more potential to be an effective contributor than a lot of people who show up.
[04:59] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  I am having a blast, and feel I am making good progress.  But, as I usually do, I go slow and ask a lot of questions and really learn from the ground up.  I do not like to go to the next step if I have holes in my knowledge foundation ...
[04:59] <ScottK> Great.
[05:01] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  Thanks for the input.  Just to let you know, I have been developing software since 1987, my main skillset being C/C++/FORTRAN in real-time UNIX environments and real-time OSes that are Unix like in many ways for the military.  So, though I do not have much Linux or Ubuntu knowledge, I have some basic software engineering skills developed over some years that I hope will allow me to contribute effectively
[05:02] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  Also, Ada in a Unix environment cross-compiled for a PowerPC embedded system (the Avionics Flight Computer for the B1 Bomber)
[05:03] <ScottK> Interesting.
[05:03] <ScottK> I found when I got started the best thing to do was find things that bugged me about the system and see if I could fix them.
[05:04] <ScottSanbar> ScottK: I think the Unix will help me because it is pretty much similar to Linux, and I have done some Linux development on YellowDog Linux for the PowerMac.  Anyway, I hope some of that experience will make me a good candidate for Ubuntu development.
[05:05] <ScottK> Great.
[05:05] <ScottK> The most important thing is a willingness to just do stuff.
[05:05] <ScottK> If you wait back for people to tell you what you should do next, you'll spend a lot of time waiting.
[05:05] <ScottSanbar> ScottK: But am I not starting off doing the right thing first - I have to learn packaging first to do anything at all in defelopment, right?
[05:06] <ScottK> Different people learn different ways.
[05:06] <ScottK> Knowing packaging is important.
[05:06] <ScottK> Some people learn best by approaching it systematically, as you seem to be doing, some people just learn little bits as they go.
[05:07] <ScottK> But it's also important to work on fixing bugs in the underlying code.
[05:07] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  Yes, I was thinking that.  Overall, though I have been very active on the IRC channels at times, I have spent a heck of a lot more time on the wikis, google, and just doing stuff on my own, like you suggest.
[05:08] <ScottK> I'm an OK Python developer and can sort of read C/C++ and monkey patch something into working if I find a patch somewhere, but I can't generally write C/C++ fixes.
[05:08] <ScottK> If you can do that, then figure the fix in the upstream code.  There are lots of people that can package that into a proper package update and get it in the archive.
[05:09] <ScottK> OTOH, if you learn to do both, then you can be more self-sufficient.
[05:09] <ScottK> If you want to become an Ubuntu developer and get rights to upload directly to the official archive, you do need to know packaging.
[05:09] <ScottK> So yes, you need to know packaging, but it's not a pre-requisite to being useful.
[05:10] <ScottK> Make sense?
[05:10] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  I think that is very sound advice.  It also is the direction that the Wikis that lead you in how you should approach Ubuntu development seem to suggest.  However, what I am actually doing is just following the instructions on the Wikis as to my approach to getting involved in the community.  I want to be an Ubuntu OS developer - that is my goal, and there is a specific set of instuctions on the Ubuntu community wikis and m
[05:10] <ScottK> You got cut off.
[05:10] <ScottK> after Ubuntu community wikis and m
[05:11] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  ... and my activities are just following those instructions, pretty much. :)
[05:11] <ScottK> OK.
[05:12] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  Not knowing any better, I just "followed the instructions ...', as best I could decipher them ...
[05:12] <ScottK> I've been doing Ubuntu development since 2007 and in 2008 the reorganized the wiki.  I still can't find anything.
[05:13] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  Yah, it is pretty involved trying to follow the Wikis, but I am finding that they have what seems to me (not really knowing any better) some pretty good instructions for how best to get involved and learn the necessary tools to become an active contributor to the OS development, which is my goal (at least, I hope :))
[05:14] <ScottK> Great.
[05:14] <ScottK> One other useful trait is a willingness to be wrong in public.
[05:14] <ScottK> If you're worried too much about that, it's hard to get stuff done.
[05:15] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  One thing about me is that at times I can be a "bull in a china shop" - I hope I can keep that under control so I do not put anyone off who could help me or who I need to have a good relationship with.  I am trying my best.
[05:16] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  Yes, I agree.  I hope I am not currently exhibiting behaviour that seems to indicate an unwillingness to be wrong ... If so, I need to correct that immediately.
[05:16] <ScottK> No.  It was just a general statement.
[05:17] <ScottK> slangasek: mailavenger FTBFS smells of multiarch.
[05:17] <ScottSanbar> Oh, good - I am glad.  I tend to be just the opposite - I tend to be too willing to be wrong, and feel that ego's just get in the way.  I have been a developer for a long time, but all that has taught me is how easy it is to be wrong about stuff you think you are right about.
[05:39] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  My problem seems to be a bzr-builder bug.  I am looking for a workaround:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-builder/+bug/727299
[05:40] <ScottK> Definitely a #launchpad issue then as they own the infrastructure.
[05:40] <ScottK> I've not run into it, but I don't build from recipes either.
[05:41] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  OK, thanks - I have posted there, and have a workaround dated 5-15-11 for this, but it looked difficult and not ideal so I was searching for a better answer.  I will restrict further discussion on this to #launchpad.  Thanks again.
[05:42] <ScottK> Sorry I can't help you on that one.
[05:43] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  No problem, I can build fine on my PC, just not in Launchpad.  Probably being a littel too thorough, but it is interesting to me.
[05:45] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  That said, since you are in MOTU and do not use recipe, does that mean it is not used in general by MOTU folks?  I figured just by looking at how it was all set up that the recipes were some kind of main way people did stuff, not knowing any better.
[05:45] <ScottK> No, because it can only be used on PPAs and not in the main Ubuntu archive.
[05:46] <ScottSanbar> Oh, Ok.  I'll look into that better on the Wikis and figure out the difference.  I guess I have not gotten that far yet in the documentations.
[05:47] <ScottSanbar> (tutorials, walk-thrus, etc)
[05:53] <ScottSanbar> Just as a FYI, the answer seems to be as follows for the above problem, if anyone cares:  https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/157658
[06:29] <ScottSanbar> ScottK:  BTW, thanks again for all your help - I really appreciate it, and the very nice compliment was very nice :)
[13:54] <blackz> hey people ;)
[13:56] <tumbleweed> blackz: hi
[13:57] <blackz> hey tumbleweed how're you?
[13:58] <tumbleweed> nat bad, but very busy today...
[16:15] <ScottK> tumbleweed: It looks like plee-the-bear in Debian fixes it's current FTBFS.  Since it's a game, I think having the latest is best.  I'm busy with $work today, but perhaps you could find someone to investigate.
[16:16] <tumbleweed> ScottK: not today for me either, but I've added it to the todo list
[16:16] <ScottK> OK
[17:32] <jtaylor> how does one best run autoreconf in cdbs packages?
[17:39] <ScottK> By convincing someone else they should do it.
[17:39] <broder> jtaylor: dh-autoconf includes a cdbs rule
[17:40] <jtaylor> ah yes thx
[17:40] <broder> err, dh-autoreconf