[02:18] <xannen> Afternoon guys!
[02:23] <sagaci> xannen, http://www.joelp.me/blog/?feed=rss2
[02:23] <sagaci> bugger, wrong link
[02:23] <sagaci> http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=06888
[02:23] <sagaci> trisquel
[02:24] <xannen> Thanks sagaci.  :D
[02:25] <sagaci> looks to be the more updated ubuntu-like "totally free" distro
[02:25] <xannen> very good to know. :D
[02:27] <xannen> sagaci, is there another distro that you like beside ubuntu?
[02:29] <sagaci> if I had to use another one it'd be debian or pardus
[02:30] <xannen> by the way, has libreoffice superceded openoffice?
[02:31] <sagaci> yeah, well it's been forked but it's still relatively the same so far
[02:33] <xannen> I think in future openoffice is going to die.
[02:37] <xannen> sagaci, did you like the 11.04 unity vs gnome?  and what do you think of the 11.10 unity so far?  i'm just reading up on unity now.
[02:38] <sagaci> i've been using both, and unity on 11.10 or about 1-2months now. It's certainly unity upgraded, compared to the unity in natty
[02:38] <xannen> cool.
[02:38] <xannen> i'm reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Unity
[02:40] <sagaci> there's been a fair bit of criticism but I doubt that many didn't use it for very long
[02:43] <xannen> i think the criticism came too early.  when Unity shipped with 11.04, it was not "fully" completed as Shuttleworth wanted it, and lacked features and flexibility.  I believe this is what people see as negative aspects.
[02:43] <sagaci> that's right
[02:45] <sagaci> I still think that unity isn't fully done, as for 11.10, but I'm pretty hopeful for 12.04 for it to be a complete experience
[02:46] <xannen> omg that's next year, i can't wait till next release, let alone next year.  haha.
[02:48] <sagaci> well oneiric is in roughly 3-4 weeks
[02:49] <xannen> Yeah.
[02:51] <xannen> What are you doing now sagaci?
[02:52] <sagaci> bit more translation, just here and here 300 strings
[02:56] <xannen> Hehe... I think it's stupid how english has country variation.
[07:26] <xannen> hey sagaci, are you there?
[07:27] <sagaci> yep
[07:28]  * gorilla just booked in for LCA2012.
[07:28] <xannen> I'm just wondering, how do I find out what package version for package xyz in 11.10?  Specific, I want to know what eclipse package version is shipped in 11.10.  I tried the ppa for eclipse by Benjamin Drung, but it seem buggy.
[07:28] <sagaci> you can try packages.ubuntu.com
[07:29] <xannen> thanks.
[07:29] <sagaci> xannen, http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/eclipse
[07:31] <xannen> omg, it's only 3.5.2.  and i'm using 3.5.2 from 11.04
[07:34] <sagaci> hmmm, mustn't have got an update
[07:34] <sagaci> since it's a pretty huge package
[07:35] <xannen> eclipse is current version: 3.7 -- http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/
[07:35] <sagaci> yeah but like python, I doubt they're always on the latest release
[07:36] <sagaci> latest !~= best to include
[07:36] <xannen> it's sad because openjdk is virtually up to date, and yet eclipse (primarily) is used by java developers don't get enough support.
[07:37] <sagaci> maybe try #ubuntu-java
[07:38] <xannen> okay, i'll go ask there if they have more up to date info.
[07:42] <head_victim> xannen: if you have no luck http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1690523 has details
[07:44] <xannen> thanks head_victim
[07:45] <sagaci> so looks like you should just manually install/put in your home dir
[07:46] <xannen> Yeah I suppose I could.  But I like when it is properly integrated into the filesystem.
[07:49] <xannen> On Unity, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Unity -- is going on a different tangent in terms of development to Gnome.
[07:51] <sagaci> yeah probably but it's still based on gnome 3
[07:52] <gorilla> I wonder if Microsoft took noticed of Unity and decided to steal ideas for the Windows 8 interface :-P
[07:52] <xannen> Yeah, I guess for now.  The impression at this stage is Gnome community and Unity development is likely to go separate ways, unless Gnome follow the philosophy and development of Unity.
[07:52] <head_victim> gorilla: well Apple stole "Launchpad"
[07:53] <xannen> Hahaha...  I won't be surprise if they do.
[07:53] <head_victim> xannen: you're confusing gnome-shell and gnome.
[07:53] <xannen> Unity is open source, correct?
[07:53] <xannen> Yeah, sorry, I mean gnome-shell.
[07:54] <gorilla> xannen: Yes (AFAIK), but Microsoft can't use it. They could it was BSD licensed.
[07:54] <xannen> I'm still reading on Unity.  But it appears to be so many contribution from various source: Qt , Gnome shell, OpenGL Nux, etc...
[07:55] <xannen> I haven't fully read the Licence behind Unity, is it under GPL or variation?
[07:55] <xannen> Yep, GPL v3.
[07:55] <gorilla> v3! Nice move.
[07:56] <xannen> What is new in v3?  It's first time I came across it, and just then, look at Unity Licence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Unity
[07:59] <gorilla> xannen: It is like the GPl that we know and love(some may love to hate it) but prevents the embedding of the software in a device and claiming that you are not distributing the software.
[07:59] <xannen> Ah... Cool.
[07:59] <xannen> I'm still reading about it.
[08:00] <gorilla> fair enough.. but it's easy to boil down into a few sentences :-)
[08:01] <xannen> Yeah I know.  Wall of (legal) text crits xannen for 999999, xannen closes document window.  :D
[08:01] <gorilla> hehe.. enjoy the read. I have read worse agreements.
[08:03] <xannen> I was reading Microsoft Bings Map TOS, and then read Google Maps TOS... And google was easier to understand.  Anyway, I contact Microsoft for further clarification.  And they won't rule anything in or out, even though my question was well written and easy to understand.  They won't answer my specification question unless I'm willing to pay for a consultation with them.
[08:04] <gorilla> yeah... a bit silly. 
[08:05] <gorilla> xannen: I'm tracking a ballon called Horus 16 at the following address: http://spacenear.us/tracker/ Not a bad app.
[08:05] <xannen> I hope that one day, Map Services will be free.
[08:06] <gorilla> Open Street Map is our best chance but need a physcial terrain underlay to go with it.
[08:06] <xannen> I felt sorry for "Happy Feet", he got coerced and nudge into the sea.  And only a limited time tracking put on him.  LOL
[08:08] <gorilla> yeah it's  pity that the transponder failed.. could have given us a better picture of where penguins go and do.
[08:13] <xannen> Wow... so many business trade legal review this year...
[08:23] <head_victim> gorilla: I wonder when they give up on the chase. will be interesting to see if it hits' Wagga ;)
[08:29] <gorilla> head_victim: they need to get the payload back!
[08:31]  * head_victim watches it fly over the Pacific
[08:32] <gorilla> what??
[08:34] <gorilla> head_victim: nice one. I was surprised that it moved so quickly :-)
[08:34] <head_victim> Hah give it time ;)
[09:28] <sagaci> head_victim, you around?
[09:32] <gorilla> sagaci: head_victim was last seen an hour ago.
[09:38] <sagaci> that's ok
[09:39] <sagaci> unrelated but here's a bitesize bug for anyone interested in getting into and fixing bugs/bug workflow - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/853115
[09:40]  * benonsoftware might have a look at that night or tomarrow
[09:41]  * benonsoftware just found out he can't fix it tonight
[09:41] <sagaci> it's trivial but it takes a bit to revise the steps
[09:41] <benonsoftware> How did you find it?
[09:41] <sagaci> while translating
[09:41] <benonsoftware> Ah
[09:41] <sagaci> there's a couple
[09:42] <sagaci> benonsoftware, probably a better one - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-style-qtcurve/+bug/852957
[09:42] <sagaci> smaller download
[09:43] <benonsoftware> Should I assigne it to me if I'm going to fix it?
[09:43] <sagaci> because after you get the basics, you can go onto contributing large changes
[09:43] <sagaci> larger*
[09:43] <benonsoftware> Ok
[09:43] <sagaci> yeah, then you unassign after you've done/uploaded the branch
[09:44] <benonsoftware> Ok
[09:44] <sagaci> benonsoftware, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix -- most of that will apply but you don't need to rebuild/test the package since the change is so small and not obtrusive
[09:45] <benonsoftware> Ok
[09:46] <benonsoftware> Should I also change it to fix in progress?
[09:46] <sagaci> yeah, that's fine, you can also add a comment if you want
[09:47] <benonsoftware> What info should I but in the comment?
[09:48] <benonsoftware> put8
[09:49] <benonsoftware> put*
[09:49] <sagaci> Hi, I'll try to have a go at fixing this bug. This is my first bug but I'll follow the advice on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFix and ask any questions if I find any problems
[09:49] <sagaci> something like that
[09:49] <sagaci> I'll be back later
[09:53] <xannen> wow... ubuntu 8.04 has such a very long term support.  LOL
[09:53] <benonsoftware> :)
[09:53] <xannen> I'm glad that ubuntu is now doing "rolling" support.
[09:54] <benonsoftware> :)
[09:54] <xannen> lol @ Mr Smiley
[09:55] <head_victim> What do you mean rolling support? Ubuntu has had the same release pattern since the start
[09:56] <xannen> As in, the support period is more limited, compared to the past.  And support for ubuntu is more focus for later release version.
[09:57] <head_victim> Nope, support periods are identical.
[09:57] <head_victim> I think you're confusing Long Term Support (LTS) releases with normal ones.
[09:59] <xannen> Yeah, that's what I mean.  11.04 is supposedly be a LTS, is it not?  But it is that does not seem to be the case.
[10:00] <benonsoftware> head_victim: Can you see the file sagaci was talking about in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kde-style-qtcurve/+bug/852957 though Loggerhead?
[10:00] <xannen> head_victim, you just made a boo boo in translation.  :P  LOL
[10:05] <xannen> Back on Unity, it is written with Qt and QML, but will be release as Free, like GPL and the like?
[10:17] <head_victim> xannen: where?
[10:18] <xannen> head_victim, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Unity ; see Development Section
[10:18] <head_victim> I didn't translate that
[10:19] <xannen> Oh... I was making reference to lubotu2 comment, it was a joke.  
[10:22] <head_victim> Ahh ok
[10:35] <xannen> gorilla, are you there?
[10:35] <gorilla> xannen: yeah. I'm hear.
[10:36] <xannen> In terms of most free-ness, which licence provides that: LGPL or GPL ?
[10:39] <gorilla> LGPL is more for libraries and the like. But I have never compared the two side by side for the real differences.
[10:40] <xannen> I was just looking at Qt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_%28framework%29 ; and it seem that Open source Qt can be either GPL or LGPL, but proprietary only give LGPL. 
[10:41] <xannen> C++ syntax annoys me so much.  LOL
[11:59] <jargonfactory> xannen: use python; be happy.
[11:59] <jargonfactory> \o.
[12:05] <jargonfactory> this place used to have so many users couple of years back. orly, dns, elk were few i remember from back then :-)
[12:09] <xannen> hi jargon
[12:09] <jargonfactory> yo
[12:11] <xannen> nah, i'll stick to C++ or Java. :P
[12:11] <jargonfactory> heh. well, what part of C++ annoys you anyway?
[12:14] <xannen> garbage collection :D
[12:14] <xannen> and some syntax.
[12:15] <xannen> i am more use to syntax: Object o = new Object(); compare to: Object o();
[12:15] <jargonfactory> ahh automatic memory management thingy or proper gc?
[12:16] <jargonfactory> last time i checked it, C++ didn't do gc but I could be wrong.
[12:16] <xannen> any...  lol.  i have too much early exposure to Java and C#.  ahaha.  and going back to C/C++ feels painful.
[12:17] <xannen> yeah, C++ don't have Garbage collection.
[12:18] <jargonfactory> great
[12:44] <sagaci> head_victim, ping
[12:44] <head_victim> sagaci: about to head to bed mate, what can I do you for
[12:44] <xannen> !ping
[12:44] <xannen> lol
[12:45] <head_victim> !cookie
[12:45] <sagaci> head_victim, http://paste.ubuntu.com/692273/ does that make sense to you , in sense, I did that for ben for a bug, to show workflow
[12:46] <head_victim> Looks ok, I've never done the process though so not 100%
[12:47] <sagaci> do you know how long pastes are retained?
[12:50] <head_victim> I'm being told "forever"
[12:50] <sagaci> righteo then
[12:50] <sagaci> thanks
[12:55] <head_victim> No worries, I'm off to bed, gotta be up in 5 hours again. Cheerio
[12:55] <xannen> Good night head_victim.