[17:26] <charlie-tca> any updates on bug 845549 ? This causes Xubuntu to not have header information when selecting "Install Xubuntu" from the cd menus
[17:26] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 845549 in lightdm "Do not ship /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/845549
[22:31] <RAOF> Goooood morning desktoppers!
[22:43] <TheMuso> RAOF: Hey there. How was your trip?
[22:44] <RAOF> TheMuso: Great!  Plumbers was chock full of really interesting talks, and XDC had a bunch of interesting chatter too.
[22:44] <TheMuso> Ah ok you went to plumbers as well.
[22:44] <RAOF> Chicago is quite a nice city, too.  Good public transport.
[22:45] <RAOF> Yeah, plumbers and XDC were back-to-back, so I decided to go to both.
[22:46] <RAOF> It's great being in the same room with a bunch of driver hackers :)
[22:50] <TheMuso> Yeah I'll bet.
[23:04] <charlie-tca> robert_ancell: are we going to be able to get bug 845549 fixed for beta2?
[23:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 845549 in lightdm "Do not ship /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/845549
[23:05] <robert_ancell> charlie-tca, we need a default file, other the theming doesn't work - what do you recommend we do?
[23:06] <charlie-tca> Isn't there a way to tell it to remove that gtk theme file if another theme file is used?
[23:08] <robert_ancell> charlie-tca, I mean it needs the "background" and "theme-name", "font-name" fields otherwise it looks awful.
[23:08] <robert_ancell> I can't pick any sane defaults, as it doesn't know what desktop it's using
[23:09] <robert_ancell> charlie-tca, pitti suggested we have a lightdm-gtk-greeter.custom.conf or more it to /usr/share but these sound like were working around issues in dpkg
[23:10] <charlie-tca> We are already fighting to work around issues caused by making Unity default. When we asked a long time back how derivatives should use lightdm, Xubuntu did what they were told.
[23:10] <charlie-tca> We still can't theme because we did it the way we were supposed to.
[23:11] <robert_ancell> charlie-tca, which way was that?
[23:11] <charlie-tca> Now we are going to turn lightdm into as much work as gdm for all of us to use ti?
[23:13] <charlie-tca> the way it was decided in bug 799754
[23:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 799754 in lightdm "Please let vendors easily provide their own config" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/799754
[23:13] <robert_ancell> charlie-tca, I'd like to solve this as much as you, but this is at the limit of my packaging knowledge.  I normally defer to pitti, seb128 for advice on these.  Or hope someone will be able to put a patch in the bug report
[23:13] <robert_ancell> charlie-tca, <pitti> (1) don't ship a config file at all, and use sensible internal defaults
[23:13] <robert_ancell>  (2) use ucf to maintain the config file instead of dpkg, i. e. ship it in /usr/share/
[23:13] <robert_ancell> (3) provide an override location, i. e. /etc/.../foo.d/ or /etc/.../foo.custom
[23:15] <robert_ancell> charlie-tca, so that bug refers to the lightdm daemon, which we can pick some built-in sensible defaults and we just managed to get away without a config file (though it would have been much easier to deliver with one)
[23:15] <robert_ancell> in the case of the greeter we can't pick those sensible defaults
[23:16] <charlie-tca> So as derivatives, we have to replace or rewrite /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf to be able to make lightdm work the way we need it to?
[23:17] <charlie-tca> And if a user installs any other desktop, we can then tell them it won't work, because we can not make lightdm do what it needs to?
[23:17] <robert_ancell> charlie-tca, if anyone can work out a method for making apt-get install lightdm-gtk-greeter showing a greeter that looks correct in the current desktop then that's what we'll do
[23:19] <charlie-tca> If we want our own themes, lighdm-gtk-greeter has to be replaced, though. That seems like all the "easier to configure, make it work for any one" is gone now
[23:20] <robert_ancell> charlie-tca, the intention was always that the greeter is like an application.  So, it does make sense for each desktop to write their own greeter using the correct technologies and UX for the given desktop.   We have some greeters that come with lightdm, which used to be called "example" greeters
[23:20] <robert_ancell> these greeters are always going to be lowest common denominators, i.e. ligthdm-gtk-greeter can't depend on gnome-settings-daemon like unity-greeter does
[23:21] <charlie-tca> Could you put some comments in the bug report then, that is it is not going to get fixed and give suggestions about how to actually make it work?
[23:22] <charlie-tca> We wrote our own theme, but now we will have to figure out how to override this one
[23:22] <robert_ancell> sure
[23:35] <micahg> robert_ancell: is it not possible to have a .d directory for the config files and have desktop specific configs?
[23:36] <micahg> at least for the parts that are overridden
[23:37] <micahg> oh, right, you don't know which desktop until you login :(
[23:37] <robert_ancell> micahg, That's along the lines I'm thinking of.  It's an overly complex solution that only works for one derivative (what happens if you have more than two desktops installed?)
[23:38] <micahg> robert_ancell: well, you can only choose one greeter at a time, I think this should have the same way as the dm itself, dpkg-reconfigure should let you choose
[23:38] <robert_ancell> micahg, charlie-tca, the other option is to package the config into a new file, i.e. ligthdm-gtk-greeter-ubuntu-config and you can only have one installed at once
[23:38] <robert_ancell> micahg, the issue comes down to more than one desktop using the same greeter - there's always going to be a conflict over "who's theme is the primary one"
[23:38] <robert_ancell> ideally each desktop has its own greeter
[23:39] <micahg> robert_ancell: whichever one is chosen when the latest one is configured
[23:39] <micahg> just like the dm
[23:39] <robert_ancell> micahg, yeah, but imagine this.  You install ubuntu, then xubuntu.  Should the login screen look like ubuntu or xubuntu?
[23:39] <robert_ancell> there can only be one screen
[23:40] <robert_ancell> With unity-greeter it's easy.  If you've installed that it looks like unity.
[23:40] <robert_ancell> with lightdm-gtk-greeter it's not clear
[23:40] <micahg> robert_ancell: whatever the user selects during configure, the same question applies when installing gdm and lightdm on th same system
[23:41] <charlie-tca> But that is the problem today. If you have lighdm-gtk-greeter, xubuntu-greeter can not override it
[23:42] <robert_ancell> charlie-tca, yes.  And if you install lubuntu-greeter which config wins?
[23:54] <broder> RAOF: hey, i know you've suggested backing libgnome-desktop into libxnvctrl before. do you know if anybody's ever actually tried it?
[23:55] <RAOF> broder: I don't know, no.
[23:55] <RAOF> It's possible that doing so wouldn't be acceptable upstream, too :/
[23:56] <broder> that thought had occurred to me
[23:57] <broder> i think it's doable, although there is some amount of stuffing square pegs into round holes required, especially since nvctrl doesn't expose crtcs