[17:53] <hrw> hi
[17:54] <hrw> does someone here uses oneconf package on headless machines?
[22:26] <achiang> hello, i'm on natty, and right-clicking on folders in $HOME in Nautilus, i don't see the option to add the folder to U1 sync anymore...
[22:27] <achiang> any hints?
[22:28] <achiang> oh, i no longer seem to have ubuntuone-client-gnome installed
[22:28] <achiang> let me try that
[22:29] <dobey> yeah you need that
[22:29] <dobey> are you using nightlies?
[22:30] <achiang> hm... i think i may have added the nightly PPA at one point, but that was pre-natty, and then i may have forgotten about it after upgrade. let me check sources.list
[22:30] <dobey> apt-cache policy will tell you
[22:30] <achiang> ah, i was using maverick nightlies, but they are now disabled
[22:31] <achiang> is it recommended to be on natty nightlies?
[22:32] <dobey> i'm just wondering how that package got installed
[22:32] <dobey> err, uninstalled rather
[22:33] <dobey> achiang: i'd say *you* should be running our nightlies, because you work at canonical, and you should use it and file bugs early and often :)
[22:34] <someotherachiang> how about now?
[22:34] <dobey> heh
[22:34] <dobey> you need a better cloak than one that is aubergine ;)
[22:34] <achiang> heh
[22:35] <dobey> and emacs needs to load this mode.el file already
[22:35]  * achiang fixes up sources.list to grab nightlies
[22:42] <dobey> meh; why does emacs not load this .el ?!
[22:47] <dobey> ah, typos
[22:47] <achiang> ok, new question. let's say i tried to treat U1 as a normal file system. so i a) delete all local files from ~/Music, then b) go to one.u.c and say, "stop syncing this folder" via the GUI
[22:48] <achiang> then, i re-add a bunch of files back into ~/Music
[22:48] <achiang> and now i tell nautilus to sync with U1 again
[22:48] <dobey> i don't think you'd like the results, and i don't think that's how you'd treat a normal filesystem
[22:49] <achiang> the question is, if i had, say, 1 million files in ~/Music (i don't, just an example), and then i did all that file manipulation, and now after re-adding the files, i have 1 million + 1 files, now what happens?
[22:49] <dobey> you wouldn't. if you delete the files, ubuntuone will also delete them
[22:50] <achiang> i see
[22:50] <dobey> on the server and on all your other synchronized computers
[22:50] <dobey> which is actually like a normal filesystem
[22:50] <dobey> if you delete all the files, then they are deleted :)
[22:50] <achiang> what about all the magic hashing in the background? that's simply to detect the case where files are moved around?
[22:51] <achiang> s/in the background/on the server/
[22:51] <dobey> well we need to know what content goes where, and when it changed. you don't want to re-upload data every time you open and close a file (like play an mp3 for example); you only want to do it if the file data is actually different
[22:51] <dobey> which could happen if your player writes out play count into the file itself
[22:52] <achiang> ok, makes sense
[22:52] <dobey> and if you have the same file in two folders, you don't want to have to upload it twice. but you also don't necessarily want both to change, if you change one of them
[22:52] <achiang> got it
[22:53] <achiang> let's say i have a local folder that is synced, and it has 2 files, A and B
[22:53] <achiang> i delete B
[22:53] <achiang> (locally)
[22:53] <achiang> what should i expect to happen to my copy in the cloud?
[22:54] <dobey> it will get deleted from every place that file has been synchronized. so the server, and any other computers you have that are synchronizing the folder it's in
[22:54] <achiang> ok, cool, that is what i expected. :)
[22:55] <dobey> however, we don't actually delete files on the computer itself. they will get moved to trash
[22:55] <achiang> well, the bad news for me is that my hypothetical above is actually true... with about 60G of music. :-/
[22:55] <dobey> you deleted all your music?
[22:56] <achiang> let's say i learned a lot of things i don't like about banshee
[22:56] <dobey> heh
[22:57] <dobey> well, but the u1 support guys on the internal channel tomorrow and they might be able to help you
[22:57] <achiang> no, i think the problem was with me... although i don't think what i was trying to do was all that unreasonable
[22:57] <achiang> if you're curious, i can explain (but i'm not looking for you to fix my problems :)
[22:57] <dobey> what were you trying to do?
[22:58] <achiang> issue 1) U1 won't sync folders outside of $HOME; fine, i can live with that
[22:59] <achiang> so, in this world of interop, i have an external drive that i store all my music on. external because i occasionally reboot into windows and use iTunes
[22:59] <achiang> but i also want music in the cloud
[22:59] <achiang> so i would rsync music from my external drive to $HOME when in ubuntu
[23:00] <dobey> and you did rsync --delete while it was unmounted?
[23:00] <achiang> the problem is that i made the mistake of allowing banshee to rearrange the folders, both upon import, and also other stuff. i also learned today that it has an option to write metadata back into the file
[23:00] <achiang> so the copy on the external drive is fine
[23:01] <achiang> but the copy in $HOME, the stuff that is actually sync'ed with U1 was completely screwed up
[23:01] <dobey> oh, so you didn't actually *lose* any music
[23:01] <achiang> no
[23:01] <achiang> but i needed to rearrange it
[23:01] <achiang> and i didn't feel like writing code on a sunday to figure out which folders were screwed up
[23:02] <dobey> ah
[23:02] <achiang> so it was easiest to just delete ~/Music, and then rsync from external -> ~/Music again
[23:02] <dobey> but you can copy the music back over from the external drive, and it will re-upload
[23:02] <achiang> right
[23:02] <achiang> so not a big deal, but now it's another 60G of data to push
[23:02] <achiang> which is mildly annoying
[23:02] <achiang> (and also 100% a problem of my own making)
[23:02] <dobey> well, you probably don't have to upload all 60G of data
[23:03] <achiang> this was partly because i didn't understand the U1 semantics
[23:03] <dobey> so a good thing i told you to enable nightlies
[23:03] <achiang> when i tried to un-sync, and re-sync, the dialog that pops up uses the word "merge"
[23:03] <dobey> upgrade to the nightlies version and restart ubuntuone-syncdaemon with u1sdtool -q; u1sdtool -c
[23:03] <achiang> as in, "would you like to merge this folder in the cloud with the folder on your machine?"
[23:04] <dobey> well
[23:04] <dobey> did it actually delete stuff from the server?
[23:04] <achiang> and that made me think that i would inherit the cloud's screwed up directories along with my good copy
[23:04] <dobey> ah, maybe
[23:04] <dobey> check on the web site to see what's still there
[23:05] <dobey> hrmm, i need to get dinner
[23:05] <achiang> so i made sure to delete all the stuff from the server, because i saw my usage, as determined by the U1 web page, go from 230GB -> 180GB
[23:05] <achiang> i'm on the nightlies now, btw, and have restarted everything
[23:05] <achiang> no worries, i think conceptually i'm good now; it's just a matter of waiting, that's all. :)
[23:06] <dobey> achiang: is the folder on the server still there, but just empty then?
[23:06] <achiang> checking (but i think it's gone)
[23:07] <dobey> achiang: if it's there and empty, 'merge' might just have popped up because the folder already exists on the server, but doesn't on the client
[23:07] <achiang> dobey: new empty folder now (but it was definitely gone before)
[23:07] <dobey> achiang: if it's empty, then i think you probably want to click "yes" (or whatever it is) on that merge dialog in the control panel when you enable synchronizing that folder
[23:08] <achiang> dobey: maybe i'll bug the U1 guys tomorrow to blog about some U1 semantics, like what you explained to me earlier
[23:08] <dobey> ok
[23:08] <dobey> cheers
[23:08] <achiang> dobey: thanks for the help, go eat dinner. :)
[23:08] <achiang> cheers