[15:00] <ara> hello!
[15:00] <roadmr> hi!
[15:01] <ara> who's around for the UF meeting?
[15:01] <brendand> hi!
[15:01] <jedimike> hi!
[15:01]  * roadmr UF
[15:02] <ara> OK, let's get started :)
[15:02] <ara> #startmeeting
[15:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 19 15:02:41 2011 UTC.  The chair is ara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[15:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:03] <ara> Agenda:
[15:03] <ara> Feedback priorities
[15:03] <ara> AOB
[15:03] <ara> #topic Feedback priorities
[15:03] <ara> First of all, thanks to all that provided feedback
[15:04] <ara> I am sure I missed some of the points, so let's try to cover what we have and add more if we can remember some more
[15:04] <ara> the list so far is at:
[15:04] <ara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Tools/Checkbox/Feedback
[15:04] <ara> We are the final sprint for Oneiric and we have to be careful to make the best decisions. For the feedback that we are receiving for UF there let's try to come up with a solution for each of it.
[15:04] <ara> Possible solutions
[15:04] <ara> * 0.12.8
[15:04] <ara> * PPA
[15:04] <ara> * Won't Fix
[15:04] <ara> * Remove test
[15:05] <ara> 0.12.8 is due in a couple of weeks and it will probably be the last checkbox release in Oneiric, PPA is the rewrite of checkbox that we are developing and that will be released as a PPA, Won't Fix and Remove test are clear enough ;-)
[15:05] <ara> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Tools/Checkbox/Feedback
[15:05] <ara> So, going one by one
[15:06] <ara> 1. Superuser warning should appear at the beginning
[15:06] <roadmr> o/
[15:06] <ara> roadmr, go ahead
[15:06] <roadmr> there's currently a known bug in checkbox where it skips the welcome and test selection screens, goes directly into the tests
[15:07] <brendand> o/
[15:07] <ara> roadmr, can we have the bug number, please?
[15:07] <roadmr> this exacerbates the problem observed, once the bug is fixed, we could add the warning in the welcome screen's text
[15:07] <roadmr> sure: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/852204
[15:07] <roadmr> ..
[15:08] <ara> brendand,
[15:08] <brendand> i don't think this should be a high priority. you could argue that putting it before the welcome screen would be more confusing
[15:08] <brendand> ..
[15:09] <ara> o/
[15:09] <ara> brendand, yes, I think the real problem is the bug for the welcome screen, not the message
[15:09] <ara> so I think the solution would be to fix that bug for 0.12.8
[15:10] <ara> ..
[15:10] <brendand> definitely
[15:10] <victorp> o/
[15:10] <ara> victorp, go ahead
[15:10] <victorp> can we triage that bug
[15:10] <ara> victorp, I just did ;-)
[15:10] <victorp> hehe ...
[15:11] <ara> cool, one off
[15:11] <ara> 2. mem_test is crashing for many users
[15:11] <ara> The value of this test is very arguable
[15:12] <ara> my suggestion would be to raise a bug about it and to remove the test
[15:12] <victorp> bug  - https://bugs.launchpad.net/checkbox/+bug/853799
[15:12] <brendand> o/
[15:12] <ara> victorp, thanks ;-)
[15:12] <ara> brendand,
[15:13] <brendand> i think there is value in checking if the RAM in the system is usable but i don't think this test is going about it in a way that suits the needs of the ubuntu friendly program
[15:14] <brendand> removing it is an okay short term solution though
[15:14] <brendand> ...
[15:14] <ara> brendand, cool, milestoned as well, thanks
[15:15] <ara> Moving to the next one
[15:15] <ara> 3. when a test moves from interactive to non-interactive, the test information should be updated.
[15:15] <ara> I am sure that there is a old bug about this
[15:15] <ara> did anyone try to find it?
[15:16] <roadmr> o/
[15:16] <ara> roadmr, you go
[15:16] <brendand> o/
[15:16] <roadmr> The bug doesn't ring a bell, though we'd have to go look at old bugs, there aren't that many so if it's there we should find it
[15:16] <roadmr> We do need to improve our progress indication when non-interactive tests are running
[15:17] <roadmr> we'd have to look at the amount of work (mainly in the gtk interface) to make this less confusing
[15:17] <roadmr> ..
[15:17] <ara> thanks
[15:17] <ara> brendand, your turn
[15:17] <victorp> o/
[15:17] <brendand> nearly 3 years old to be precise...
[15:17] <brendand> http://launchpad.net/bugs/283929
[15:18] <brendand> ..
[15:18] <ara> brendand, thanks!
[15:18] <ara> victorp, you go now
[15:18] <victorp> seems that this is a gui thing... if we are going to rewrite the UI seems better to fix it then
[15:19] <brendand> o/
[15:19] <victorp> unless is a blocker
[15:19] <victorp> ..
[15:19] <ara> I don't think it is a blocker, I would vote to fix it in the PPA
[15:19] <ara> brendand
[15:20]  * victorp wonders if we can create a milestone for that
[15:20] <akgraner> o/
[15:20] <brendand> i'd say PPA too. the controls are disabled while the automated test is running so even if it is confusing, there's no scope for the user to do anything wrong.
[15:20] <brendand> ...
[15:20] <ara> akgraner, you go
[15:20] <akgraner> If you fix it in a ppa will end users know how to update easily?
[15:21] <akgraner> I don't use PPA that much
[15:21] <akgraner> ...
[15:21] <ara> o/
[15:21] <victorp> ara - can we stop calling it a ppa and say 12.04 instead
[15:21] <victorp> oops o/
[15:21] <victorp> :)
[15:22] <victorp> ..
[15:22] <ara> The so-called ppa  is intended to be a "nicer" checkbox that will be released in P
[15:22] <ara> so, yes, we can call it something else :)
[15:22] <ara> ..
[15:22] <ara> (not sure if 12.04 is the best way to call it, though)
[15:24] <ara> akgraner, the default checkbox will be usable and we will let people know how to upgrade if the want to use the fancy one
[15:24] <ara> ..
[15:24] <ara> next one
[15:24] <ara> 4. graphics/resolution test failed with a dual monitor set up
[15:25] <brendand> o/
[15:25] <ara> brendand, go ahead
[15:25] <brendand> is there a bug? has anyone confirmed this?
[15:25] <brendand> ...
[15:25] <ara> brendand, this is coming from Carlos, but I am not sure if he raised a bug
[15:26] <ara> so the first action here would be to confirm it and raise a bug ;-)
[15:26] <ara> but if we confirm it I would vote to fix it in Oneiric
[15:26] <victorp> o/
[15:26] <ara> victorp, go
[15:27] <victorp> I would think then as Carlos to do so and move on
[15:27] <victorp> ..
[15:27] <brendand> o/
[15:27] <victorp> s/as/ask/
[15:27] <ara> brendand
[15:27] <brendand> i did just check and it is confirmable (you get two lines with an * instead of one)
[15:28] <brendand> as victorp said, ping hggdh to raise a bug and then deal with it
[15:28] <brendand> which i think should be in 0.12.8
[15:28] <brendand> since i imagine a lot of people will run with a display connected
[15:28] <brendand> ...
[15:28] <ara> OK, let's do that then
[15:28] <ara> Next one
[15:28] <ara> 5. suspend/resume should warn the user that it might fail
[15:29] <ara> I think the test already warns the user, doesn't it?
[15:29] <brendand> o/
[15:29] <roadmr> o/
[15:30] <ara> brendand, go
[15:30] <brendand> i don't think so
[15:30]  * brendand checks
[15:30] <ara> roadmr, ?
[15:30] <roadmr> from the test description: "If your system fails to wake at all and must be rebooted,
[15:30] <roadmr> restart System Testing after reboot and mark this test as Failed."
[15:30] <brendand> a little bit. could be clearer
[15:31] <roadmr> yep, not sure how changing a test description at this point affects things. Well that's all I had on this test.
[15:31] <roadmr> ..
[15:31] <ara> o/
[15:31] <bladernr> o/
[15:31] <ara> I think for Oneiric is good enough
[15:31] <ara> ..
[15:31] <ara> bladernr, go
[15:32] <bladernr> was just going to say that changing the actual test descriptions would require a translation change, and thus an exception pushed through at this point...
[15:32] <bladernr> at least that's my understanding of it
[15:32] <bladernr> ...
[15:32] <ara> o/
[15:32] <ara> Yes I think that's the case
[15:33] <ara> I think we can mark this one as "won't fix"
[15:33] <ara> ..
[15:33] <ara> Cool, next one
[15:33] <ara> 6. ftp test is not working
[15:33] <victorp> o/
[15:33] <ara> victorp, go ahead :)
[15:34] <victorp> ftp test!!! realy?
[15:34] <victorp> really I meant
[15:34] <victorp> I dont really sure what this tells us about the system
[15:34] <victorp> I say remove it
[15:34] <victorp> ..
[15:34] <ara> +1
[15:34] <roadmr> +1 on killing ftp test
[15:35] <bladernr> +1
[15:35] <brendand> +1
[15:35] <ara> Cool, I will raise a bug and will milestone it for 0.12.8
[15:35] <ara> 7. Some testing that I do not have hardware for like PCMCIA are still being asked for
[15:35] <roadmr> o/
[15:36] <ara> roadmr, go ahead
[15:36] <roadmr> I don't recall what the agreement was on this, but I think we can't detect pcmcia so we have to ask for it. We could phrase it as "does your system have pcmcia?" instead of what we have now, which leaves the impression we are asking for stuff the system doesn't have
[15:37] <roadmr> in general we should make sure we don't ask for hardware we can otherwise detect, but if we can't detect it, asking is better than just doing nothing.
[15:37] <roadmr> ..
[15:37] <ara> o/
[15:37] <bladernr> o/
[15:38] <ara> I think this can be deferred for checkbox gui rewrite
[15:38] <ara> ..
[15:38] <ara> bladernr, your turn
[15:39] <bladernr> let me conflate a couple things... I think you suggested marking hte suspend test description change as wont fix, i'd suggest postponing that one and this one for P and handle it then (or not)
[15:39] <bladernr> but both seem to be useful changes, but probably not achievable for Oneiric...
[15:39] <bladernr> however, I'd like to make sure both live so we don't forget them for P
[15:39] <bladernr> ..
[15:39] <ara> sounds good to me
[15:39] <victorp> +1
[15:40] <ara> Cool, next one
[15:40] <ara> 8. USB storage transfer takes forever
[15:40] <victorp> o/
[15:40] <ara> victorp, go ahead
[15:41] <victorp> maybe that was just me? has anyone else experience the same ? akgraner?
[15:41] <victorp> ..
[15:41] <bladernr> o/
[15:41] <ara> bladernr, go
[15:41] <bladernr> is that the automated USB storage transfer test?
[15:42] <bladernr> if so, it takes a while because it creates an arbitrarily big file to transfer to usb storage and then checksums it to compare with the copy on hard disk...
[15:42] <bladernr> the file size could be made smaller, thus significantly speeding up the test... the file size was purely arbitrary
[15:42] <bladernr> ..
[15:42] <ara> o/
[15:43] <ara> then I vote to fix it (make it smaller) for P, but I don't see a very high value in fixing it for Oneiric at this point
[15:43] <ara> ..
[15:43] <brendand> o/
[15:43] <ara> brendand, yes?
[15:44] <brendand> i think that's some pretty tasty low-hanging fruit :)
[15:44] <victorp> 0/
[15:44] <victorp> o
[15:44] <brendand> am i right bladernr?
[15:44] <brendand> ...
[15:44] <ara> victorp, go
[15:44] <bladernr> +1 brendand
[15:45] <victorp> 5 minutes out of 15-20 minutes run seems pretty bad to me and worth doing if just it requires changing a magic number
[15:45] <victorp> plus the file shouldn't be bigger that 1K if we are checking crc here, I dont think size matters ;)
[15:45] <victorp> ..
[15:46] <bladernr> that's what she said
[15:46] <victorp> s/that/than/
[15:46] <bladernr> o/
[15:46] <victorp> no
[15:46] <victorp> she said fixit for P I am saying O
[15:46] <ara> bladernr, go ahead
[15:47] <victorp> o/
[15:47] <bladernr> A: nevermind, bad joke... as for the magic number, it's a very easy fix as brendan said, so +1 for fixing on 0. The default is 32mb, so we could definintely make the default smaller (1MB or 1K or 100K or whatever)
[15:47] <bladernr> ..
[15:47] <bladernr> er... O not 0
[15:47] <ara> my only concern is that they'll accept it or not
[15:47] <ara> victorp, go ahead
[15:48] <victorp> I vote for milestoning thisfor 0.12.8
[15:48]  * victorp gets the bad joke now... really bad
[15:48] <victorp> ara- why would they accept the other fixes (mem test) and not this one?
[15:48] <victorp> ..
[15:49] <ara> victorp, I don't know, in this case we are changing a test, in the other case we are removing it
[15:49] <ara> but I am happy to try
[15:49] <victorp> ah, well we should ask in any case
[15:49] <ara> cool
[15:49] <ara> next one
[15:49]  * victorp ..
[15:50] <ara> last one
[15:50] <ara> 9. Submitting results is not clear
[15:50] <ara> this is a problem by itself
[15:50] <victorp> o/
[15:50] <ara> if you leave that blank it won't accept the submission (unless something changed in between)
[15:50] <ara> ..
[15:50] <ara> victorp, ?
[15:50] <victorp> I must say that is "submitting results with you LP id" is not clear
[15:51] <victorp> ..
[15:51] <ara> but if you leave it blank? does it submit?
[15:51] <roadmr>  o/
[15:51] <victorp> anonymous submissions?
[15:51]  * victorp has not tried that
[15:51] <ara> roadmr, go ahead
[15:52] <roadmr> If you don't enter an email address, a dialog says "not submitting to launchpad" and you end up in the "successfully finished testing!" screen
[15:52] <roadmr> if you then press "previous" and do enter an email address, it can submit to launchpad
[15:52] <ara> roadmr, but if you leave it blank it won't submit
[15:52] <roadmr> I agree that the UI/sequence is a bit confusing, but it works and it does warn you that it won't submit if left blank
[15:52] <ara> which it was my point
[15:52] <victorp> o/
[15:52] <ara> we should accept blank emails
[15:52] <ara> victorp, yes
[15:52] <roadmr> ok ok, if that's the idea then we do need some changes :0
[15:52] <roadmr> ..
[15:53] <victorp> a simple solution would be to put in the test box by default [enter your email here]
[15:53] <victorp> s/test/text/ !!!
[15:53] <victorp> what is up with me today
[15:53] <victorp> ..
[15:53] <ara> o/
[15:53] <ara> but what should we do with blank emails?
[15:53] <victorp> go ahead ara ;)
[15:53] <ara> ..
[15:54] <victorp> o/
[15:54] <ara> victorp, just go if nobody is talking
[15:54] <victorp> I am +1 on anonymous submissions unless we see most people are using it
[15:54] <roadmr> o/
[15:54] <ara> roadmr, yup
[15:54] <victorp> so what am I saying is go ahead with accepting it and introduce a ban on them later on
[15:54] <victorp> ..
[15:55] <roadmr> one very simple solution would be forcing a "dummy" email address for blank submissions
[15:55] <roadmr> so if it's blank, checkbox sends it as if coming from anonymouscoward@somewhere.com, and we know that all submissions from that address were anonymously sent
[15:55] <victorp> anonymous@ubuntu.com
[15:55] <roadmr> ..
[15:56] <ara> +1
[15:56] <victorp> o/
[15:56] <ara> victorp, yes?
[15:56] <victorp> is that doable for 0.12.8 or shall we leave it to P?
[15:56] <victorp> ..
[15:57] <ara> o/
[15:57] <ara> I think it is quite a bit change, I am afraid :(
[15:57] <ara> ..
[15:57] <victorp> o/
[15:57] <victorp> I would say do it in P
[15:58] <bladernr> o/
[15:58] <victorp> we dont seem to have a lack of submissions
[15:58] <victorp> there is 48 for oneiric at the moment
[15:58] <victorp> ..
[15:58] <ara> bladernr, yes?
[15:59] <bladernr> to avoid trying to work this into checkbox for O, would it be possible to do that server-side instead of the client side?
[15:59] <bladernr> ..
[15:59] <ara> bladernr, the UI won't submit without email
[15:59] <ara> I would say, do it in P
[15:59] <ara> ..
[16:00] <bladernr> ahhh... I thought that may have changed for anonymous subs...
[16:00] <bladernr> ..
[16:00] <ara> Cool, I think this covers the first topic
[16:00] <ara> Moving on quickly (we are already out of time)
[16:00] <ara> #topic Ubuntu Friendly website: http://bit.ly/UbuntuFriendly
[16:01] <ara> victorp has suggested to cover this topic during this meeting
[16:01] <ara> victorp, anything you want to mention specifically?
[16:01] <victorp> o?
[16:01] <victorp> I like it!
[16:01] <victorp> ;)
[16:01] <victorp> ..
[16:01] <jedimike> o/
[16:01] <ara> jedimike, go!
[16:01] <jedimike> i like it too
[16:01] <jedimike> ..
[16:01]  * victorp thinks jedimike and cr3 are doing a great job
[16:02]  * ara likes it as well :)
[16:03] <ara> anyway, just a reminder that feedback and bugs (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-friendly) are more than welcome :)
[16:03] <victorp> Any one has contrustive feedback , please?
[16:03] <victorp> ara - can you set up answers in there
[16:03] <ara> victorp, sure
[16:04] <ara> done
[16:04] <roadmr> other than polishing things (the search controls on the left) I'd say it's looking very nice so far
[16:04] <victorp> I think that will be useful to things like this, rather than bugs
[16:05] <ara> #topic Any Other Business?
[16:05] <victorp> akgraner, have you had time to look at it?
[16:06] <ara> going once...
[16:06] <ara> going twice...
[16:07] <ara> gone!
[16:07] <ara> #endmeeting
[16:07] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 19 16:07:45 2011 UTC.
[16:07] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-19-15.02.moin.txt
[16:07] <ara> thanks all!
[16:07] <roadmr> it's gone, gone, gone :( and I can't go oooon!
[17:06] <jdstrand> hi!
[17:06] <mdeslaur> hello!
[17:06] <micahg> o/
[17:07] <jjohansen> \o
[17:07] <jdstrand> let's get started
[17:07] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[17:07] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Sep 19 17:07:24 2011 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[17:07] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[17:07] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[17:07] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[17:08] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
[17:08]  * bliss burns a candle for kees
[17:08] <jdstrand> Thanks to zooko and jtaylor for their help on security updates for the community supported taylor-lafs last week. Great job! :)
[17:08] <mdeslaur> bliss: hehe
[17:08] <jdstrand> err, that isn't the right package name
[17:09] <jdstrand> tahoe-lafs
[17:09] <jdstrand> and yes, kees departure
[17:09] <jdstrand> As kees mentioned via his blog last week, he has left Canonical to pursue other opportunities. We wish him well and look forward to continuing to work with him on Ubuntu in the community.
[17:09] <jdstrand> I'm happy to say that the talents of the Ubuntu Security team run deep and we are in good shape. Moving forward, people should direct questions regarding userspace/toolchain hardening to sbeattie.
[17:09] <jdstrand> We are in the process of finalizing the details for the kernel security position, so in the meantime questions on kernel publication should be directed to mdeslaur and kernel hardening can be asked of the team in #ubuntu-hardened.
[17:10] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[17:10] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[17:10] <jdstrand> I'm on triage this week. Part of my work on that will include training tyhicks` on UCT
[17:11] <jdstrand> I've got a small pile of MIRs I need to tend to
[17:11] <jdstrand> a few work items are left, which I hope to try to work on
[17:12] <jdstrand> and I have some apparmor policy updates I am working on
[17:12] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're next
[17:12] <mdeslaur> I plan on publishing ffmpeg/libav updates today
[17:12] <mdeslaur> and will go down the list to pick something else
[17:12] <mdeslaur> I think there's iso testing also this week that I'll do
[17:13] <mdeslaur> and, I'm doing the kernel workflow also
[17:13] <mdeslaur> that's it from me
[17:13] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: tag, you're it
[17:13] <sbeattie> I'm on community this week
[17:14] <sbeattie> I'm poking at php5 in part prompted by a community member contributing a fix for an open issues there.
[17:15] <sbeattie> Also, I'm still poking at apache as well, both for the security issue fixied in 2.2.21 and some of the byterange regressions fixed as well.
[17:15] <sbeattie> I'll also be doing some testing for beta 2 (I have a couple of systems to upgrade to O) and hopefully some iso testing as well.
[17:16] <sbeattie> I think that covers it for me.
[17:16] <sbeattie> micahg: ping
[17:16] <micahg> update chromium and prepare mozilla updates for next week's release train
[17:17] <micahg> that's it
[17:17] <micahg> tyhicks`: ping
[17:17] <tyhicks`> I'm still working on the mutt update. I hit some snags in my setup last week and didn't make it as far as I had predicted.
[17:18] <tyhicks`> I'm confident that I can finish that up this week and I'll also be working with jdstrand on UCT to understand the triaging role.
[17:18] <tyhicks`> jdstrand: That is it for me.
[17:18] <jdstrand> cool
[17:18] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[17:18] <jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. The highlighted packages for this week are:
[17:18] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/teamspeak-server.html
[17:19] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/condor.html
[17:19] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/zonecheck.html
[17:19] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/monotone.html
[17:19] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/midori.html
[17:19] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[17:19] <jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[17:21] <micahg> people can ignore midori on that list
[17:22] <sbeattie> well, another great thing people could work on is going back through and confirming that older open CVEs have or have not been fixed in newer releases.
[17:23] <jdstrand> yes, that is always helpful
[17:24] <jdstrand> [ACTION] jdstrand to update highlighted packages to also mention UCT in general
[17:24] <meetingology> ACTION: jdstrand to update highlighted packages to also mention UCT in general
[17:25] <jdstrand> ok, thanks guys!
[17:25] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[17:25] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Sep 19 17:25:48 2011 UTC.
[17:25] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-09-19-17.07.moin.txt
[17:26] <mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
[23:37] <rcunningham> I am planning on participating in a Community Council meeting soon.