GrueMasterThe only problem is that it pulls only from ports.ubuntu.com (no mirrors).  You can get around it if you have a local mirror, but that takes a large amount of drive space.00:03
=== zumbi is now known as Guest67303
brandinimaybe I'll stick with trying the headless daily00:05
brandiniI only see netbook and headless00:06
infinityNot for oneiric.00:07
infinityWe're now more in line with the rest of the distro, with desktop and server.00:07
GrueMasterOneiric changes the names.  Netbook>Desktop (daily-preinstalled).  headless>Server00:08
GrueMasterbrandini: If you want the netboot installer, it is at a different location.  http://ports.ubuntu.com/dists/oneiric/main/installer-armel/current/images/omap4/netboot/00:09
brandininaw, I think I'll stick with server00:13
brandinihow come cdimage is so slow?00:14
GrueMasterinfinity: Does this certificate thing invalidate the current images that were just rebuilt?00:57
GrueMasterFor armel?00:58
infinityGrueMaster: Almost certainly.01:00
infinityGrueMaster: I think we ship that package on pretty much every image.01:00
infinityTask: standard01:00
infinityEvery image except core.01:00
* GrueMaster mutters a few choice words that get stuck in the irc filters.01:01
GrueMasterWell, may as well fix jasper (yet again).  FS resize is failing.  Testing server images now.01:02
infinityIt's failing on the server images?01:05
GrueMasteryes.  It runs way too quickly (1-2 seconds) on a 16G SD.01:06
GrueMasterWaiting for the rest of the install to see what it is doing (or not doing as the case may be).01:06
GrueMasterheh.  This is a definite indicator of fail:  /usr/sbin/oem-config-firstboot: line 98: cannot create temp file for here-document: No space left on device01:07
GrueMaster16G SD.01:07
infinityNot promising...01:07
GrueMasterConsidering installed we use ~1.9G max...01:08
infinityNot entirely sure how the changes would have made it fail.  A log would be nice.01:09
GrueMasterWorking on it as fast as these turbo systems will go.01:11
GrueMasterWhat is the kernel cmdline to break in init during initrd?01:13
GrueMasterHate to say "I told you so", but this is kind of why I was against ext4 switch this late in the game.01:15
GrueMasterinfinity: What is the proper way to break in init prior to premount?  I can't see what is going on with jasper.01:24
infinityWe can switch back to ext3 with almost no effort.  I can do it right now, if you think the failure is the filesystem.01:26
infinityBut if it's not the filesystem, you get to blame all the mx5 changes, and not me. :P01:26
infinityAnd the init break would be something like "break=top"01:26
infinityOr similar.01:26
infinityDepending on which step you want to break into.01:26
infinitybreak=premount, I would assume.01:26
infinityUnless that happens after premount.01:26
* infinity hasn't hacked initramfs-tools in a while.01:26
twb`You can just put "break" and it stops just before the pivot_root01:26
infinitytwb`: That's too early.01:26
infinityErr, late.01:26
infinityBrain bleeding.01:27
twb`If you grep for maybe_break over /usr/share/initramfs-tools you can see all the break points01:27
infinityYeah.  Just did. :P01:27
twb`infinity: I hack the shit out of casper to make it work on diskless thin clients -- I know all about initramfs :P01:27
infinityGrueMaster: You want break=premount01:27
GrueMastergot it.  Trying.01:28
GrueMasterexport ROOTDEV=/dev/mmcblk0p01:33
GrueMasterLooks wrong01:33
infinityNah, that's right, just unneeded now with jani's changes.01:35
infinitySince rootpart used to be rootdev+n01:35
GrueMasterI can't see where it is failing.01:36
infinityIf ROOTPART is correct, then the only place it really could fail is just because resize2fs doesn't work on ext4 (which we know it does, but could be a bug or something)01:36
infinityOr just a grumpy SD.  My testing worked on one, and not another.01:36
infinityPS: I hate flash memory.01:37
infinityLet me grab a copy of this image and flash it.01:37
GrueMasterfails on both beagleXM and panda.  different cards (4 now).01:37
infinityI'm perfectly willing to believe there's a bug with resize2fs and ext4 on arm (or in general), just going to look here quickly as well and see if I can see how or why it fails.01:39
infinityLike I said, switching back is easy (one small diff on antimony), now that jasper itself doesn't hardcode fs types.01:39
GrueMasterI don't think that is the problem.01:41
GrueMasterresize works fine manually from init.01:42
infinityRunning the script, or just typing resize2fs manually?01:42
GrueMasterrunning resize2fs manually.01:43
infinityAlso, is there a sane way to do kernel command line editing on these things, or do I have to mangle the image?01:43
infinityWell, I guess, mangle boot.whatever on the card.01:43
GrueMasterThat's what I do.  You could interrupt u-boot also and do it manually.01:44
GrueMasterThe filesystem on /dev/mmcblk0p2 is now 15589376 blocks long.01:45
GrueMasterI call that a success.01:45
infinityAnd ext4?01:45
infinityIn that case, I don't think you get to blame me. :P01:46
infinityBut I'll see if I can figure out WTF *is* going wrong.01:46
GrueMasterOk, it seems to be booting through after manually massaging the partitions.01:47
GrueMasterjasper-growroot has issues.01:47
* infinity goes to meet a woman, get married, and have a few kids, while he waits for this image to flash.01:49
stgraberinfinity: didn't realize flashing images is taking that long now ;)01:51
GrueMasterDoh!.  Looks like jasper-growroot is mounting the filesystem before resizing.01:51
GrueMasterIt would be nice if these derived variables were also in the log.  Not a single log entry has the variable output.01:53
infinityGrueMaster: It mounts and the umounts, doesn't it?01:54
GrueMasterYes, but who knows if the umount actually happens before it tries to check the drive.01:55
GrueMasterflash-kernel has timing issues with this.01:55
infinityI wonder if this is begging for an icky sync solution and we're just racing...02:01
* GrueMaster is approaching the 12 hour mark w/o glasses. Everything is getting real fuzzy.02:02
infinityOh, ffs, that image doesn't fit on a 1G card.02:03
* infinity tries his sketchy 16G card that fails half the time.02:03
infinityThis script makes me sad...02:04
infinityHow was $MYECHO deemed less typing than "echo "?02:05
GrueMasterMYECHO feeds plymouth02:05
infinityOh, I missed the if plymouth bit.02:05
GrueMasterwhat is this frigging initrd format this week?  I have stripped the uboot crap off, but non of my unpack scripts work.02:07
infinitySame as it's been for the last several years...02:08
infinityA cpio archive, compressed with the compression flavour of the month. :P02:08
infinitygzip still, looks like.02:09
GrueMastergzip: initrd.img: not in gzip format02:09
GrueMasterlzcat: Decoder error02:09
GrueMasterThose are the two I work with the most.02:09
GrueMasterxz?  (from mkinitramfs)02:13
infinityReally?  Mine claim to be gzipped.02:13
GrueMasterI'm talking about the one on the boot image.02:14
GrueMasterStripped first 64 bytes, nothing.02:14
infinityAhh, lzma.02:16
infinityWell, the ones from live-build are.02:16
infinityOf course, your lzcat still says no to that.02:17
GrueMasterfile just comes back as data.02:17
GrueMasterI'm leaving the jasper debug to you.  My head really hurts.  No glasses doesn't help.02:19
infinityI hate flash media.  So.  Much.02:27
infinitybad geometry: block count 897024 exceeds size of device (897008 blocks)02:30
infinityThat seems like a bad thing.02:30
infinityHow are we 16 off?02:32
twb`nand flash itself isn't that bad, it's just the dancing that you have to go through when there's no FTL02:33
infinitytwb`: nand is pretty bad, I have a ton of dead and dying cards.02:34
twb`I could say the same about HDD or optical media02:34
infinityHard drives die a tad more slowly. :P02:34
infinity(Or, rather, after a lot more use)02:35
infinityAs a write-once (or write-infrequently) medium, nand is great.02:35
twb`That's partly just that HDDs are more mature technology02:37
twb`As long as I get 3-5 years of life out of a unit, I'm happy.02:38
infinityGrueMaster: I'm now wondering if this is a bug we've had for ages, and we only trigger it sometimes...02:43
infinityGrueMaster: I think we're occasionally creating an image that's one block short.02:43
GrueMasterWhat, sync?  I hit it quite often.  Just kept getting told it is only affecting me.02:44
GrueMasterThat bug too.02:44
infinityThe 1 block short thing causes the mount and umount to fail.02:45
infinityCause it's a bad FS.02:45
infinityBut resizing works.02:45
GrueMasterAnd reflashing over the same SD will occasionally work fine.02:46
* GrueMaster sometimes wishes he could have a developer stand next to him and sucker-punch him for every bug that flies by.02:47
twb`That sounds like a job for an automaton, not a developer :P02:47
infinityYou have a live-in one, don't you?02:47
GrueMasterOnly when he's awake.02:48
GrueMasterAnd he rarely enters my office anymore.  guess he is learning.  :P02:48
dashhowdy. I would like to install ubuntu on an ARM machine for hacking/server usage03:11
=== zumbi is now known as Guest16855
twb`dash: what kind of ARM machine03:11
dashbut I don't know if a machine suitable for that exists :)03:11
dashtwb`: that is my question! where can I find an ARM box that has, like, SATA connections03:12
dashand a non-tiny amount of RAM03:12
infinity"box", it's not, but the Freescale i.MX53 QuickStart has SATA.03:12
twb`Whatever Debian's armel porter boxes run (efikamx?) are probably good for that role03:13
dashyeah i was looking at the efika smarttop03:14
twb`Which is a motorol^W freescale underneath03:14
infinityThe quickstart's definitely faster.03:14
infinity(And Debian's new buildds are those)03:14
twb`infinity: who do you buy one from?03:14
infinityI got mine from DigiKey.03:15
twb`I mean presumably they're BGA so you need to get a mobo+soc combination03:15
twb`Huh, I never heard of them but they sound big03:16
infinityIt's about 4 inches square...03:17
twb`I meant the company03:17
twb`"Digi-Key is the fourth largest electronic component distributor in North America"03:17
infinityOh.  Yeah.03:17
infinityAssuming that works without my cookie... Their catalog can be annoying.03:18
twb`That gives me: (Download)Save file to: dksus.dll03:18
infinityYeah, figured it might.  Useful.03:18
twb`This is why I avoid .com domains03:18
infinityJust searching for mx53 and clicking on General Embedded Dev Boards will bring it up.03:19
infinityGrueMaster: Grr.  Despite this fs size bug, everything still works fine on one of my cards. :/03:39
dashinfinity: that looks nice.03:40
dash1GB RAM and sata connector means you could use it for something real :)03:40
dashpity it's the A8 instead of the A9, but whatever03:40
infinityYeah, A8 is its only failing, really.  Well, that and being a dev board. :P03:41
dashmeh, i've got gaffer tape :)03:42
dashi'm just looking for a dinky home server that i can build some software on03:43
dashto replace my thinkpad t42 whose fan just died03:43
infinitydash: My MX53 is my Debian and Ubuntu mirror, among other things, when it's not busy rebooting for dev work.03:44
infinitydash: Works fairly solidly.03:44
dashwell i could always turn my old athlon back on03:45
dashbut that's loud and hot :)03:45
infinityYeah, same reason most of my POWER systems aren't on. :/03:45
dashhmm, welp03:49
dashthis is the first piece of kit i've wanted this year that fry's hasn't had :D03:49
infinityDigiKey is next day FedEx for 8 bucks (or maybe less in the US?), free for orders over 200.03:49
infinitySo, not the end of the world.03:49
infinityAt least, that's what they do for Canadians.  Maybe they're more cruel to locals. :P03:50
=== mayday_jay-work is now known as mayday_jay
twbNote to self: next time doing a dist-upgrade within a chroot on a foreign architecture, do --download-only08:26
* twb watches dpkg chug along from within a qemu userspace emulation08:26
=== doko_ is now known as doko
=== chrisccoulson_ is now known as chrisccoulson
=== Guest16855 is now known as zumbi
ogra_janimo, no updated mx5 images ?10:40
janimoogra_, apparently none with the newer jasper10:40
janimostill at .6010:40
ogra_why didnt infinity start a rebuild, do you know ?10:41
ogra_jasper should be long done10:41
janimono idea, I was asleep10:46
ogra_ok, there were issues with ca-certificates and a mozilla update10:47
ogra_seems new builds were started around 6am UTC by pitti10:47
ogra_so we should have them this afternoon (about 6h for one build)10:48
ogra_janimo, within the next 2h we should have them10:52
ogra_so let me find that silly wlan debug setting10:54
hugehello, I'd like to use ubuntu 10.10 without desktop ... the question is ... how disinstall gnome?10:54
ogra_janimo, phy0 -> rt2800usb_txdone_entry_check: Warning - TX status report missed for queue 2 entry 47 ... thats the message in dmesg you get thanks to it ... one every few mins10:55
hugethen i will want to start my own QT/QML ... based on Qt 4.7.410:55
janimoogra_, ah, so not _that _ spammy - I thought it was flooding dmesg10:55
ogra_janimo, CONFIG_RT2X00_DEBUG10:55
janimoit can actually be a good debugging clue10:56
hugeis available a debian package for qt4.7.4 for arm with prebuilded libraries?10:56
ogra_well, spammy enough that you cant read the actual dmesg messages because of it at times10:56
ogra_its not as bad as one line per second, but still annoying and nothing for a release :)10:56
janimohuge, I know there are qt 4.7.4 libs in Ubuntu Oneiric, technically debian packages but not sure it's what you're after10:58
ogra_sigh, but 6h for one desktop image build run is pretty bad, we will need way more livefs builders next release10:58
brandiniI put my usb SSD in and my CF And booted the daily server and things seem to have gone better10:58
brandinibut right now it's stopped at "Waiting for network configuration"10:58
janimoogra_, why does a debootstrap take that long?10:58
janimowhat else is happening there?10:58
ogra_janimo, i think for Qt they package upstream and dont sync10:58
ogra_(i might be wrong, but i think i remember something like that)10:58
ogra_janimo, which debootstrap ?10:59
janimoogra_, no idea, how do live images get built?10:59
ogra_you mean running it locally ?10:59
janimonot by debostrapping initially?10:59
ogra_well, there si debootstrap involved10:59
ogra_did you ever use rootstock ?10:59
ogra_it functions pretty much the same10:59
xranbyhuge: debian currently have 4.6.5 in testing/unstable.         the quickest way to remove gnome are    apt-get remove  gdm       and then apt-get install kdm11:00
janimobut that did never take close to 6 hours here11:00
janimoan hour at most maybe11:00
ogra_debootstrap -> apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^11:00
ogra_then configure some stuff11:00
janimoah they happen natively that's why it is slow?11:00
ogra_and roll the whole into a filesystem image of any kind11:00
ogra_they have to11:00
ogra_while we dont really require fast disks for normal buildds (usually CUP and RAM are more important there), livefs builds totally depend on disk speed11:01
ogra_and thats something we heavily miss (even with fast USB disks you are limited to the bus speed)11:02
ogra_we shoudl consider an mx5 cluster for livefs builders, so we can use SATA11:02
hugehello, i've problems with ubuntu-omap4-extras, after installation ubuntu (10.10) does not work fine any more11:57
hugegraphics does not work properly11:57
hugehow to fix this issues??11:58
hugesome help?12:06
xranbyhuge: are xorg running?12:08
xranbyhuge: did graphics stop after you installed the package?12:08
hugeyes ... after reboot ubuntu is starting in graphics mode but it is not usable12:09
hugexorg is running.12:10
hugemy HW is pandaboard12:10
xranbyhuge: fist check that your pandaboard gets enough power..   how many A can your powersupply deliver?12:11
xranbyhuge: try reduce powerconsumption from the board by connecting keyboard and mouse to a self powered usb hub instead of directly connecting them to the board12:12
hugepower supply is +5V12:13
xranbyhuge: how many A at 5V can your powersupply deliver   i want to know how many Watt   (A *V)12:13
hugeah ... sorry12:13
huge2.4 A12:14
xranbyhuge: ok thats a bit on the low side12:14
xranbyhuge: do you have a watt meter?12:15
hugewhat to do?12:15
xranbyhuge: check that you do not use more than 12W or else you risk  a brownout when using the board12:17
xranbyhuge: since you powersupply can only deliver 12W12:17
xranbyhuge: a brownout will manifest itself like random crashes and segfaults12:17
xranbyhuge: since the board will not get enough power12:18
ogra_janimo, did you care for mx5 vto be on the iso tracker ?12:18
xranbyhuge: if you exceed 12W or are close to using 12W then buy a better powersupply12:18
ogra_pitti just asks in #ubuntu-release12:18
xranbyhuge: that can deliver say 4A 5V+12:19
janimoogra_, no idea.  I know too little about the iso tracker and what the implications are for an image to be there12:21
janimowe want to have the image usable so probably yes i'd say12:21
ogra_can you tell pitti you want mx5 (and where on the tracker it should go)12:21
hugeso i have need a 20W powersupply??12:21
xranbyhuge: remember that one usb device connected to the panda can consume up to 2.5w       so if you connect two usb devices you allready use   5W of the 12W12:22
xranbyleaving only 7w left for the board itself12:22
ogra_you really only need the 4A if you drive a lot of USB devices on the pand12:22
ogra_2.5 to 3.0 should be fine for normal operations off an SD card12:23
xranbyogra_: huge's powersupply are 2.4A12:23
ogra_yes, i saw that12:25
ogra_for bare SD card installation that should still be ok12:25
xranbyhuge: still you have not mentioned why your graphics mode is not usable12:27
xranbyhuge: is it stalled ?12:27
hugeno is it not stalled ... the mouse pointer is evil ... when i start application i see only green windows12:29
hugehow can i'm sure that is not an sw problem?12:30
hugenow i've downloaded SGX with Demo Package from http://neuvoo.org/neuvoo/distfiles/SGX- ./OGLESEvilSkull Does not start12:32
xranbyhuge: can you paste any error message?12:32
hugelibGLES_CM.so is missing12:33
* ogra_ would recommend waiting for rsalveti or robclark 12:34
ogra_they maintain the sgx drivers (one for TI, one for linaro/ubuntu)12:34
ogra_they are both on US timezones and should show up soon12:34
hugemaybe can be a reason ... becouse i don├Čt have libgles2-sgx-omap4-dev installed12:35
rsalvetihuge: install -dev package12:36
xranbyhuge: try sudo apt-get install libegl1-sgx-omap4 libgles1-sgx-omap4 libgles2-sgx-omap412:36
hugei've installed libgles2-sgx-omap4-dev ... but nothing changed12:40
hugenow i've solved ... was missing a simbolic link for libGLES_CM.so ... but to start ./OGLESEvilSkull i need to have X up ... but in graphics mode ubuntu is not utilizable12:46
hugealso on startx i've: startx (EE) AIGLX error: dlopen of /usr/lib/dri/pvr_dri.so failed (/usr/lib/dri/pvr_dri.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)12:54
hugexrandy tried with usb hub ... same problems13:04
* ogra_ runs an ac100 test install ... brb13:07
hugexrandy what i don't understand ... is that X start, gnome start ... and seems fast ... then when i try to open a simple terminal (in graphic mode) i've white screen13:08
xranbyhuge: sounds like a gfx driver bug13:10
xranbyhuge: did you check your board powerusage witht he watt meter?13:10
xranbyjust to rule out that source of error13:10
hugei'm going to do ... i need to reboot13:10
hugejust 5 minutes13:11
hugeit is max 5 W13:17
hugeso we can exclude problems about powerusage13:19
xranbyhuge: great, hopefully robclark here and rsalveti know hot to debug the sgx drivers and can come up with an idea why you get a white screen when you launch the terminal13:19
hugethank you, robclark/rsalveti could you help me?13:22
brandiniit looks as though the install runs into issues if you don't have your CF card zero'd out before you start your install13:25
hugehello hello13:28
=== ahs3` is now known as ahs3
robclarkhuge, umm, ok, what is the issue then?13:30
hugeissues is that after omap4-extra installation, I can't use ubuntu in graphics mode13:31
xranbyrobclark: (15.09.06) huge: xrandy what i don't understand ... is that X start, gnome start ... and seems fast ... then when i try to open a simple terminal (in graphic mode) i've white screen13:31
robclarkxterm?  Or gnome-terminal?13:32
robclarkdmesg or /var/log/Xorg.0.log have anything interesting?13:32
robclarkis this compiz, or metacity?13:34
hugesgxCopy PVR2DBlt3D with error code -713:35
hugesgxComposite: failed  to do composition13:36
robclarkk.. can you pastebin the xorg log?13:36
robclark(and also check dmesg.. maybe we crashed sgx somehow)13:36
hugeok, i will ...13:37
hugei need to install telnetd and to reboot13:40
robclark(or sshd)13:41
hugedmesg seems ok13:47
* robclark looks13:47
robclarkerror 0x00000003 is INVALID_PARAMS...13:48
robclarkI'm guessing something is fubar in the package..13:49
robclarkmaybe some patch merged badly or something like that?13:49
robclarkbut sgxCopy shouldn't really fail like that.. it is a pretty basic operation13:49
rsalvetihuge: are you using the sgx packages from stable or trunk ppa?13:50
robclarkhuge, yeah, kernel level stuff looks ok..13:53
hugeyes yes13:53
hugei don't understand really ...13:55
hugei've used this: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:tiomap-dev/omap-trunk13:57
hugeand followed this guide13:57
=== shadeslayer_ is now known as shadeslayer
=== olive_ is now known as olive
=== olive is now known as Guest94356
ogra_GrueMaster, respin in progress, enjoy your morning coffee and relax :)14:24
GrueMasterplanned on it.14:31
ogra_seems pitti didnt think that ├╝preinstalled needs ubiquity at all14:31
ogra_so we have a broken oem-config still14:31
ogra_(crashing very badly if you do a non networked install)14:32
huge robclack ... some help ? :)15:21
=== Guest94356 is now known as olive
hugersalveti : do you suggest to use sudo add-apt-repository ppa:tiomap-dev/release ??15:51
hugeinstead of trunk?15:51
rsalvetihuge: trunk in theory works15:55
rsalvetiunless something else changed and broke the ppa15:55
hugeso how to solve my isuess? :(15:56
GrueMasterogra_: jasper is still broken.15:57
ogra_GrueMaster, on mx5 ?16:09
ogra_janimo, ^^^16:09
GrueMasterogra_: nevermind.  Appears my mirror sync was not sync'd.  It gets confused when we start triggering builds manually.16:10
ogra_.oO( would really be helpful if that was discussed here and not in teh other channel )16:10
ogra_GrueMaster, thanks for notifying here :)16:11
GrueMasterI tend to go where the people that can fix things pop their heads up.  Kind of like whack-a-dev.16:12
GrueMaster(since so few of you guys seem to use windowed IRC systems and only hover over one channel at a time).16:12
ogra_i dont :)16:13
infinityErr, "Eh".16:14
infinityI get lovely annoyances when people correctly nick highlight me. :P16:14
infinityAnd I blissfully ignore even the window I'm "watching" when they don't.16:14
GrueMasterinfinity: This is based on years of conditioning on this team.  Not everyone is the same, however I tend to follow best practices for all.16:16
GrueMasterAnd when I see a critical release-stopping issue, I go hunting for immediate assistance.  You should have seen the flack a few releases ago when I didn't.16:17
ogra_well, stop making up excuses we all fail in that regard (including me) and use the wrong channel to often16:19
GrueMasterinfinity: I still don't see a 0.62 tag in jasper bzr.16:23
ogra_infinity, so there are people poking me about a partitioner in the ac100 installer ... which i refuse to write ... i'm wondering, since you wanted to move the jasper bits into d-i, we could probably also have a tarball installer udeb16:23
GrueMasterI do see your patch to fix partition detection.16:25
infinityGrueMaster: That would be because I didn't tag it. :P16:26
infinityGrueMaster: There.  Happy? ;)16:26
GrueMasterLike I said yesterday, I am just keeping everyone on their toes.16:27
infinityogra_: Yeah, it should all be in d-i somehow or other.16:27
* ogra_ whacks infinity 16:27
ogra_use debcommit !16:27
ogra_it auto tags if the changelog is right16:28
infinityI'm actally completely opposed to people trying to switch source packages to bzr repositories, I might be avoiding tagging as a subconscious protest. :P16:29
ogra_oh, i fyou actuvely do it i will join in16:30
* ogra_ prefers source debs too, but gave up on fighting for it 16:30
ogra_it doesnt look like it has much chance16:30
infinityI have no problems with package collaboration in a VCS, I have huge issues with building directly from that VCS.  Maemo did that, and it wasn't an improvement over the old skool Debian way in any way.  It just made people feel like they were more "cutting edge" or some crap.16:31
ogra_well, i still also prefer apt-get source ... edit, dpkg-buildpackage ... upload16:32
ogra_and theoretically UDD should DTRT with that and push it into the bzr branch16:32
infinityogra_: And some day, it might.  I hope.16:33
infinityogra_: I dislike the idea that one person's workflow needs to be imposed on another.  So, if that can all Just Work, cool.16:33
brandiniso I just took the time to zero out both SD cards and flash the preinstalled server image16:38
brandinilets hope it works this time :(16:38
infinityGrueMaster: Phew.16:40
infinityGrueMaster: Resize works here. :P16:40
infinityGrueMaster: Your stale mirror has me scared. :)16:40
GrueMasterok.  Still pulling updated images here.16:40
infinitySo, who's good at partition math?16:41
* ogra_ hides16:41
GrueMasterIt's as if zsync completely fell over for all the images I pull.  Each one is taking ~15 minutes to pull.16:41
infinityI suspect this is a bug we've had for months/years, but I think we're generating images that are a block short around 50% of the time.16:42
GrueMasterAnd my link light on my DSL router is blinking faster than my eyes can refresh.16:42
infinityWhich means losing a bit of random data off the end of the ext* filesystem.16:42
ogra_you mean it woulod try to write there ?16:42
infinityI mean the partition is shorter than the filesystem.16:42
brandiniinfinity: on the dailies?16:43
infinitybrandini: Mmhmm.16:43
ogra_after resize or at build time ?16:43
infinityEXT4-fs (sdb2): bad geometry: block count 897024 exceeds size of device (897008 blocks)16:43
infinityBuild time.16:43
infinityAfter resize, it's "fine".16:43
GrueMasterI notice it more with 16G SD.  Not sure but could be layout related.16:43
infinityBecause it re-fits it.16:43
brandinithat's why all my daily attempts fail :(16:43
infinityBut that still means it's missing a tiny bit of data, and we have no idea what. :)16:43
brandinime too, my 32GB SD works and my 16 doesnt :(16:44
ogra_infinity, given that we add 50M spare space ....16:44
infinityogra_: Err, where?16:44
ogra_chances are good its just empty space16:44
GrueMasterbrandini: If you are trying daily-preinstalled this week, it fails for a whole lot of reasons.  Next build "should" be better.16:44
ogra_infinity, in the TI contract :)16:44
infinityogra_: Oh, you mean on the livefs itself.16:44
ogra_infinity, i originally added 50M to the post-boot scripts, if thats not there anymore, ask who removed it16:45
infinityogra_: Still, the partition being short for the FS is broken. :P16:45
infinityogra_: Wait.  No, I'm confused.  You're adding 50M padding to the partition, or to the filesystems?16:45
ogra_but if the overlap is for empty space and the partitioning is fine after install, thats not a biggie16:45
infinityogra_: Cause I see no padding on the partitions.16:45
ogra_to the fs indeed16:45
infinityWhich is sort of the problem..16:45
brandiniGrueMaster: :(16:45
ogra_so TI can modify the panda images for blaze16:45
ogra_well, the 50M are added before the partitions are created16:46
ogra_iirc we are creating an img file with 50M more than the chroo occupies16:46
infinityogra_: I must be missing where that happens.16:47
infinityogra_: Or it doesn't anymore. :P16:47
ogra_should be in post-boot16:47
infinityI've been staring at post-boot for the last day.16:47
ogra_that might be, i havent touched the omap/omap4 script in a release16:47
infinityThough, mostly that one block of shell arithmetic.16:47
GrueMastersounds like more craknschpiel.16:47
infinityThat I think is off by a block.16:47
ogra_i think only NCommander did16:47
ogra_the 50M are essential though16:49
brandiniso I should use the 11.04 release instead?16:49
infinityCurrent oneiric server images seem fine.16:50
infinityKeep in mind that some cards will just hate you, too. :P16:50
brandinithey all do!16:50
ogra_infinity, oh, might be that we did it in livefs.sh, not in post-processing code16:51
* ogra_ chaks livecd-rootfs16:51
infinityogra_: That would make more sense, if the goal is to have a bigger FS.16:52
infinityogra_: Since a bigger partition doesn't actually give you a bigger filesystem. :)16:52
brandiniI really wish I could boot off my usb drive16:52
ogra_  # Add 1024MiB extra free space for first boot + ext3 journal + swapfile16:53
ogra_  size=$(($(du -ks ${ROOT} | cut -f1) + (1024000)))16:53
ogra_there it is16:53
ogra_no idea why thats not 50M anymore16:53
ogra_infinity, oh, btw, are we still properly creating the swapfile in live-build ? else beagle C4 wont work anymore16:54
* ogra_ just noticed we moved that into livecd.sh16:54
infinityI doubt it.16:56
ogra_(C4 will OOM if you try to run desktop and have no swap)16:56
infinityBut nothing there was turning it on either...16:56
ogra_jasper does16:56
infinityThen jasper can create it too?16:57
ogra_it also used to create the file16:57
ogra_but that adds 10.15 min to the jasper run16:57
infinityIt should be instant.16:57
ogra_you have to dd 512MB16:57
infinityYou can dd it sparse.16:57
ogra_sawpfiles cant have zeros16:57
ogra_or holes16:57
ogra_mkswap will refuse to use it, try it16:58
ogra_(ignore that i said zeros above :) )16:58
infinityroot@vishnu:~# time dd if=/dev/zero of=test.swp bs=512 count=0 seek=104857617:01
infinity0+0 records in17:01
infinity0+0 records out17:01
infinity0 bytes (0 B) copied, 6.2626e-05 s, 0.0 kB/s17:01
infinityroot@vishnu:~# time mkswap test.swp17:01
infinitymkswap: test.swp: warning: don't erase bootbits sectors on whole disk. Use -f to force.17:01
infinitySetting up swapspace version 1, size = 524284 KiB17:01
infinityno label, UUID=87833675-2023-43d1-83a8-63afbd94848417:01
infinityogra_: ^--- Not seeing a problem.17:02
ogra_swapon ?17:02
infinityOh. :P17:02
infinityYou said mkswap would refuse to use it. ;)17:02
* ogra_ would have been surprised :)17:02
ogra_sorry, its a year ago i had to do with it ...17:02
ogra_so it was swapon17:02
ogra_i just know it doesnt work17:03
infinityThat's a bit silly, given that I can create files on a filesystem on a loopback device with holes.17:03
infinityIn fact, I could create a swapfile on a filesystem on a loopback with holes, and it would work!17:03
ogra_well, swapon would refuse too in that case i bet17:03
infinity(Hint: Our SD card image has "holes")17:04
ogra_the swapfile itself doesnt17:04
ogra_not sure how that gets handled on fs level if your fs has holes though17:05
infinityWell, holes are a temporary inconvenience.17:05
infinityThe VFS layer masks around sparse files.17:05
infinityI can only assume that VMM is doing nasty things to VFS, and they should sit down for a timeout.17:06
ogra_might be ...17:06
infinityAnyhow.  That whole swap creation thing has been broken/nonexistant for months (ever since the live-build switch), and no one has complained. :P17:07
ogra_well, in any case we need to look into that for post beta17:07
ogra_likely because not even GrueMaster tests desktop on C4 anymore :)17:08
infinityThat was sort of my point.17:08
GrueMasterI haven't tested desktop on much of anything in the last few weeks.17:08
infinityI suspect no one tests or uses it.17:08
infinity(On that hardware)17:09
ogra_well, but if we offer images for it, it has to work17:09
ogra_or we restrict what we support17:09
ogra_or drop the image17:09
infinityWe offer images for "omap", we don't specify which boards...17:09
* ogra_ wouldnt mind to drop C4 support17:09
GrueMasterCan't drop the image.  It still supports XM17:09
infinityThat's like saying Ubuntu Desktop works on every x86 machine (it doesn't).17:09
ogra_infinity, we offer omap3 images for beagleboards17:10
infinityogra_: Yes, there are lots of beagles that it works on.17:10
ogra_we need to make clear ^that we dont support C4 imho17:10
GrueMasterWe can limit what we support, and leave other systems to user discression.17:10
ogra_especially since the C4 was our only supported TI board for a while17:10
GrueMasterXM in, C4 out for desktop.17:10
infinityogra_: Well, the other option is to have jasper take that 10 minutes to dd a swapfile if (and only if) you're on a C4.17:11
ogra_needs to go into the release notes17:11
* ogra_ will happily see the swapfile crap die 17:11
GrueMasterinfinity: Anything on C4 takes a lot longer than on other platforms.17:11
ogra_infinity, well, i didnt like that hack when i added it, i dont like it more today :)17:11
infinityI will say I was pretty effin' shocked to discover a swapfile on my SD card when I first set up the Panda.17:12
GrueMasterAs to my beagle, I honestly do not have any room for that atm.  I am out of desk space/network drops/power cords.17:12
infinityCause swapping to nand flash is about as smart as shaving your scrotum with a cheese grater.17:12
ogra_that i'm the guy who writes most of the scary weired hacks doesnt mean that i particulary admire what i hack together :)17:12
GrueMasterdone that.17:13
ogra_infinity, as you mantioned above, swapfiles sit on top of the VFS layer ... they should be less harmful than a swap partiton17:13
ogra_i wonder where all these typos come from today17:13
infinityogra_: It's pretty harmful.  But so it almost everything a modern system can do to flash.17:14
infinity(I've killed a card here just with /var/log)17:14
infinitys/so it/so is/17:14
ogra_well, you have a stack of FTL->VFS->swapfile17:14
ogra_at least on SD17:14
infinityBut I wasn't just referring to the destruction of the flash, I was also just talking the speed.  I'd probably rather invoke the OOM killer than swap to monkeys with pencils.17:15
* ogra_ hasnt killed a card in 4 years ... i had some dead USB keays from my classmate times17:15
ogra_OOM will tear your app down17:15
ogra_swapping will come back after the IO is done17:15
ogra_so you can still save your document17:15
infinityFrom the C4 perspective (that couldn't run desktop at all), the swapfile made sense.17:16
ogra_even if it takes 1h17:16
infinityOn my Panda, it made less sense. :P17:16
infinityS'all I'm saying.17:16
ogra_swapfile makes always sense on systems where you potentially can hit OOM imho17:16
ogra_just because of the above17:16
infinityThat's every system in the world.17:16
infinityBut you'll still OOM when you fill swap.17:16
ogra_well, chances on my 4G intel are less than on my 512M XM17:16
infinityEventually, you hit a point where you're saying "this is how much memory I have".17:17
Nekohappy medium: use zram to cache swap pages in compressed memory, and reduce soujourns to disk until it's absolutely necessary?17:17
infinity(Unless you do the dynamic swap thing, then your wall is just disk space)17:17
ogra_Neko, yes, we used to use compcache in the past17:17
ogra_i was planning to have a spec on it for UDS17:17
GrueMasterWhat is going on with cdimage?  My zsync is extremely slow.  Been updaing one image now for almost an hour.17:18
infinityHonestly, I think we're hitting a point where we don't care anymore about that sort of thing.  Or shouldn't.17:18
ogra_GrueMaster, many people download ?17:18
infinityModern ARM systems (at least the ones we target) have RAM, can have more, and can swap to storage that isn't flash.17:18
* GrueMaster hates release week.17:18
ogra_infinity, well, zram/compcache can easily add another 50% of ram for no costs17:18
ogra_and its a good first level swap17:19
infinityogra_: The cost is CPU time.  That never mattered on ARM, where memory I/O was shit, and CPU was free as a result, but that's changing.17:19
ogra_the cup time cost isnt really noticeable17:19
infinityogra_: When we become cycle-bound instead of i/o bound, we need to watch our solutions.17:19
Nekobig problem though, you have to make sure it is added first. When we ran the init scripts they came up far, far after disk swap was enabled, and without specifically bumping priority to 0 (since disk swap came in at -1) it wouldn't use it17:19
ogra_we did experiment with compcache in the past on the C4 and older17:19
ogra_and there wasnt a noticeable hit on CPU back then17:20
Nekothen of course, if you use prelink, running firefox with a few tabs, leaving a system on for days and days, your compressed swap fills with discarded linker data17:20
ogra_ubuntu will never use prelink i think17:20
infinityogra_: Yes, I know the CPU time wasn't noticeable (and, in fact, it probably made things faster), but like I said, all ARM systems until now have been I/O bound.17:20
infinityogra_: When your CPU is idle half the time, waiting on RAM, compressing RAM is a huge win.17:20
ogra_and they will stay that way for more releases :)17:20
Nekoefika isn't so i/o bound :)17:21
infinityIts memory bandwidth isn't that exciting.17:21
ogra_its CPU neither :)17:21
Nekoit isn't on most ARM boxes17:21
infinityThank you for restating my point?17:21
ogra_tegra has a pretty decent memory bandwith17:22
ogra_faster than panda17:22
Nekoyou can have all the memory bandwidth in the world but running off a USB disk or SD card is basically negating everything there17:22
infinityAre you from the "I benchmark applications by cold-cache starting them?" camp?17:23
infinityHow fast Firefox starts != how fast it runs.17:23
Nekowell, let's put it this way; it took 4 hours to compile a kernel on pandaboard. I can do it in 70 minutes on an Efika with -j3.17:23
infinityAnd memory I/O is hugely important.17:23
infinityNeko: Odd, I have both here, and the Panda nearly always wins compile races.17:24
infinityNeko: Was that when you were getting 5MB/s off a Panda's USB?17:24
Nekoit's purely down to the SD card in use.. and it's a good SD card17:24
ogra_ac100 wins over both though :)17:24
Nekono I don't use USB on the Panda17:24
infinityNeko: Oh, if you're compiling on SD, that's a lost cause.  And a pointless comparison.17:25
Nekojust a UHS SD card.. which isn't so ultra-high-speed since the bus seems limited to about 10MB/s17:25
ogra_thats bad17:25
Nekobooting over USB on Panda helps but for some reason it doesn't help all that much.  it still loses the kernel compile race, even building on another disk.. there is some very strange stuff there, I think combined with the extremely poor SD and USB performance, even when that's fixed, SMP slows things down.. it builds faster on -j1 than it does on -j217:26
GrueMasterNeko, what is the performance on the efika with the same SD card doing the same job?17:26
NekoI can't say I've attemped it in about 3 weeks though17:26
NekoGrueMaster, about the same, the point would be that no matter how good you think your SD card is, it's actually not.17:26
GrueMasterkernel patch fixed usb performance last week.  Retest, then talk about it.17:27
Nekoand USB disks don't solve anything...17:27
steev_Neko: don't talk bad about the pandaboard17:27
infinityThey do if they work. :P17:27
NekoI like my pandaboard17:27
GrueMasterThe point is, when you spout performance benchmarks on two different systems, that you are actually reducing as many variables in the test setup.  Comparing Sd vs Sata is blindingly stupid and invalid.17:28
Nekobtw USB disk in question was an A-Data MLC SSD.. the bus limits it's performance over USB (but it's topping out somewhere else).17:28
Nekonobody ships a SATA system except Quickstart17:28
GrueMasterAgain, update kernel & retest.17:29
infinityNeko: About 7 times now, people have mentioned that your USB disk tests were getting about 5MB/s, and that's fixed.17:29
=== sauerbraten_ is now known as sauerbraten
dashNeko: i just found out about trimslice17:29
infinityNeko: And yes, when your I/O is throttled that low, -jN will make it worse, since concurent reads just block hard.17:29
Nekotrimslice is USB to SATA17:29
dashwell that's no good17:29
dashglad i bought an mx53 instead then17:29
Nekothe only chip out there with a native sata controller is the mx53.. it's sad to say, it really is17:30
dashsoon i will have my first web server with an accelerometer17:30
ogra_trimslisce has the fill PCIe bus available (unlige other tegra implementations) you can easily use a miniPCI SATA card17:30
Nekoinfinity, I tried a bunch of things, there were questions about SMP causing it, which turned into that write buffer flush patch.. I disabled SMP a long while back and it gave me back my performance, but it still lost. Perhaps the CPU itself, or some power management was in the way, or just USB being the worst possible protocol with too much overhead and zero possibility for DMA17:31
=== prpplague is now known as prpplague_afk
NCommanderinfinity: the post-boot scripts for armel are made otu of cheap gum and duct tape17:56
dashoh, i take it back, that thinkpad had an accelerometer.18:04
=== prpplague_afk is now known as prpplague
GrueMasterinfinity: The current respin, what was affected?  oem-config?18:30
GrueMasterWow.  Lots more chatter from the kernel in dmesg.  Mostly audio and wifi.  There will be bug reports.19:37
* GrueMaster stares at the beaglexm screen and silently wonders why oem-config restarted a second time.21:37
GrueMasterSo, we no longer are doing swap files on omap images?  System is real slow.21:55
infinityWe haven't been for months.21:55
GrueMasterWhy not?  This is very slow with only 512M.22:01
GrueMasterHad I been able to do daily image testing, I would have raised a flag a long time ago.22:01
infinityBecause that code was in livecd-rootfs, and it never got moved to live-build, and no one noticed until today.22:02
infinityI swear we just had this conversation this morning.  That was the context of "dropping C4 support".22:02
infinityAnd not to question what you're seeing, but the speed issues could be elsewhere.  I refuse to believe that swapping to flash could make anything *faster*, just less prone to OOMing.22:03
GrueMasterWell, may as well drop all armel support without it.  Even the panda daily is very slow, with all of the cruft added by DX.22:03
GrueMastercrap.  panda hung.22:04
GrueMasterHard hang while oem-config was configuring locales.22:04
GrueMasterAs to swap, not sure what is going on, but my loadavg just dropped after creating a 1G swapfile and enabling it.22:07
infinityGrueMaster: I'm happy to hack swapfiles into live-build to resurrect the functionality.  It's just not happening for B2.22:17
GrueMasterWasn't talking about B2 required.  But it would be nice to know about these changes before release.22:18
infinityThey do drastically infalte the size of the image, though (not the zipped size, since the swap is empty, but the real size).22:18
infinityYeah, no one seemed to be aware until, like I said, today. :P22:18
infinityBut it's been like this since the switch.22:18
GrueMasterAnd yes, I am seeing a huge amount of swapper errors in dmesg on beaglexm.22:18
infinityYou can't reall have swap errors without swap.22:19
GrueMasterCan't?  Tell that to my system.22:20
infinityOh, wait.  You mean a page allocation error?22:20
infinityIf so, then yeah, that's just OOMing.22:20
infinityI find it a bit sick that we can't boot with 512M of RAM.  But whatever. :P22:21
infinityWe'll fix it.22:21
GrueMasterYea, I've heard that line a lot this cycle.  :P22:24
GrueMasterBTW:  Installer is still on the unity menu bar after login.22:24
GrueMasterRebooted beaglexm with /SWAP.swp, desktop looks much different.22:27
GrueMasterI have a top indicator bar, for example.22:27
infinityPicky, picky. ;)22:28
infinityYeah, fuck omap3 for now, then.  If it boots at all, ship it, realising that the underlying software is identical to omap4.  And light a fire under my ass post-B2 to get you swapfiles back.22:29
GrueMasterBah.  ENONETWORK again on my beaglexm.22:34
brandiniis there a new daily image that is worth downloading?22:57
brandinialso, is there any way to make the serial console actually display useful output ?23:00
infinityDefine useful?23:00
brandiniwell right now when I connect and the installer comes up it's so jumbled I can't even tell what it says23:01
brandiniusing the default terminal app in ubuntu, export TERM=vt220 minicom and no dice :(23:01
infinitybrandini: Oh, minicom's just crap.23:02
brandiniI also tried screen, cu and gtkterm23:02
infinitybrandini: "screen /dev/ttyUSB0 115200" is your friend.23:02
infinity(Or whatever your serial device is)23:02
infinityAt least, it always DTRT here.23:02
brandiniI did try that... not looking good23:03
infinityNot sure what to suggest, then.  That always works for me.  It's not perfect, but it's certainly usable.23:04
infinityI think terminal emulation became a lost art when BBSes died.  I miss Telemate and Telix.23:04
GrueMasterbrandini: Do you have a null modem cable attached?  If so, remove it.23:05
GrueMasterWhat image are you trying?23:05
brandiniGrueMaster: I have a usb to serial adapter23:05
GrueMasterOk, plug that straight into the panda.23:05
brandinidoes the preinstalled from today have the partition/packaging issue fixed?23:06
GrueMasterToday's?  20110921 is the one you want.23:06
GrueMasterSeems to.23:06
brandinithis mirror is SO SLOW23:06
brandinian hour to grab 500mb?23:07
brandiniI don't need the manifest or zsync right?23:07
GrueMasterYea, having same issue here and I use zsync (which in theory only pulls binary differences).23:07
infinityNo, but if you have the old image, you could just "zsync http://path/to/zsyncfile"23:07
brandinioh really...23:07
* brandini tries23:07
GrueMasterOnce you have the img.gz, you can update it with zsync.23:07
infinityThe old image needs to be in your CWD.23:07
brandiniI can handle that much:)23:08
GrueMasternot nessarily. Use "zsync -i <old image> http://cdimage....<new image>"23:08
infinityWell, yes.  But no need for -i if you just want to update it in place. :)23:09
GrueMasterThe "old image" can even be a different name (or even subarch, which is kind of interesting).23:09
brandini88% complete23:09
brandiniI didn't know about zsync23:10
brandinithis pandaboard seems like it will be absolutely great as a webserver23:11
GrueMasterI've tested it.  As long as you don't expect high (as in slashdot.org) traffic, it is pretty nice.23:12
brandinino, I don't23:12
brandiniwhat are your apps written in?23:12
GrueMasterPart of my testing included the entire lamp stack.23:12
brandinior just static html23:12
GrueMasterMore install and run some prepackaged website.23:13
GrueMasterThen nuke and run some other test.23:13
brandiniI'm using go23:13
GrueMasterLet me know how it works out.23:14
brandinieven on my atom proc it does thousands of reqs/sec23:17
GrueMasterI just hope to get an arm based server in the near future.  Testing the server stacks on what is essentially a cell phone is not pleasant.23:18
GrueMaster(although running 6 pandas in a filesystem cluster makes me giggle).23:18
brandiniI wouldn't mind a panda farm23:19
dashmmm, panda farm23:19
dashof course. how else would we get those delicious panda steaks23:20
brandiniGrueMaster: I did have go built on the arm on 10.10... decided I wanted 11.x and didn't build any of my apps on the pandaboard23:21
GrueMasterDo you have a link?23:23
* GrueMaster is always interested in using new apps as test suites.23:23
brandiniit's the new python, ruby, java :)23:24
GrueMastersigh.  yet another language for me to learn.23:24
dashgo isn't all that.23:25
dashit's a bunch of old ideas thrown together, some of them good, some of them dumb23:25
GrueMasterI'm self taught in C, C++, JAVA, Perl, Atari-basic, x86 assembly, to name a few.  Adding to the stack heap is getting painful.23:27
GrueMasterNo formal programming training.23:27
infinityGrueMaster: You didn't see Gustavo's Go presentation in Dublin?23:27
* GrueMaster was teaching more than learning in the University of Phoenix course.23:27
infinityGrueMaster: And the company-wide challenge to go (re)write random crap in Go for kicks?23:28
GrueMasterinfinity: I may have missed it.23:28
GrueMaster(and when have I had spare time to go programming for kicks?)23:28
infinityApparently, there are prizes at stake.23:28
GrueMasterin any language.23:28
infinityThis hasn't motivated me, mind you.23:28
GrueMasterhmm, prizes you say.23:29
dashgo! it's so great, they have to bribe people to use it.23:29
* GrueMaster wonders how many engineers and managers he could piss off by rewriting all of the qa tests in go?23:29
brandiniif you rewrite a C program in Go you have to use Go conventions rather than your C conventions23:35
brandinior it's not worth the effort23:35
brandinieven this new images says "If you created or changed a DOS partition, /dev/(1) to zero the first 512 bytes: dd if=/dev/zero...23:50
brandinioh, it says partition 2 does not end at a cylinder boundary23:51
GrueMasterIgnore it (unless it has actually failed).23:52
brandinistill resizing23:54
GrueMasterWhat size SD?23:54
GrueMasterWhoa.  If you run into issues, please let me know.  I don't have anything that big.23:55
brandiniif that fails should I try a 16GB?23:55
GrueMasterI have a few 16G, and a lot of 8G.  Nothing bigger.23:56
GrueMasterWell, it hasn't been tested (by me) on 32G.23:56
GrueMasterI'm on a 16G right now.  No problems yet.23:57
infinityMy Panda runs on a 32G, but I haven't tested that since early oneiric.23:57
infinityI see no reason why it would have stopped working, though.23:57
brandiniit hit 100/100 and the lights are still blinken23:57
infinityI have a stupidly high miss rate for bad media in general though. :/23:57
infinityAll over the map.23:58
infinityKingston, Patrio, non-name junk, Lexar.23:58
brandinithe one I'm using now has the rainbow on the front23:58
GrueMasterbrandini: That is normal.  The counter is just a shell script routine.  resize does a litlle post-processing.23:58
infinityActually, the Lexar cards are the only ones that have never acted up, but I doubt that's a quality thing, and suspect it's just random statistical luck.23:58
brandiniwoot, creating bootloade23:59
brandinijust restarted23:59

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