[00:24] shadeslayer, ScottK, bulldog98_: is there a use case for a uds desktop app? [01:21] apachelogger: touchegg-gui rejected. [01:21] apachelogger: Dunno. I'm not going. [01:22] Quite fortunate I procrastinated reviewing touchegg-gui earlier today. [01:22] indeed so [01:43] Updated desktop images are available for testing. [01:48] New dvd too, so all images should be ready (except armel) [01:50] Tm_T: Your powerpc didn't happen to get fixed did it? [03:08] ScottK: or anyone , is kde 4,7,2 likely for 11.10, or is that going to be too late? [03:08] * claydoh writes blogs, blogilo has no spellcheck for some reason [03:10] claydoh: Too late. [03:10] Because 1010 10 = 42. [03:10] kk, thought so wanted to get facts straight beforehand [03:10] thanks [03:11] I think I have that fixed for 12.10. [03:12] ScottK: the release note on the wiki by lunarcloud look very nice, though I never heard back from him in any fashion. [03:12] 42 the magic number! [03:12] claydoh: OK. You might contact him via LP. I'd make what use of it you can. [03:13] Yes. Our dear master was convinced that geeks would think it was cool to realease earlier with more bugs. [03:13] he has the wiki page up https://wiki.kubuntu.org/OneiricOcelot/Beta2/Kubuntu [03:14] looks nice rather [03:15] valorie and I did make some comments on his draft for Final, I like it actually [03:17] We'll need release notes tomorrow, so .... [03:21] I don't have a login to kubuntu.org to edit/create [03:22] errr blogilo is ticking me off, I rely on spellcheck too much [03:28] ScottK: I'd just steal from the wiki page, it would look good on kubuntu.org. [03:29] Sure you do. [03:29] It's the same as always, AFAIK. [03:29] Oh. [03:29] Sorry, thought you said the wiki. [03:29] ?? [03:30] I think the overall text blurb would make a decent text blurb for the website announcement [03:31] OK. [03:31] Nevermind me. I was confused. [03:32] Allegedly https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=275469 is fixed in trunk. Anyone care to go spelunking for the commit that fixed it? [03:32] so am i [03:32] KDE bug 275469 in widget-taskbar "4 7 Regression: closed windows stay in the taskbar sometimes, taskbar doesn't react on clicks" [Normal,New] [03:33] * claydoh thinks bug 856059 should go to the front of the list, cuz I needz spellchek [03:33] Launchpad bug 856059 in kdepim (Ubuntu) "[Kubuntu] Blogilo has spellcheck disabled, and cannot enable it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856059 [03:33] kidding of course [04:01] * valorie agrees - good blurb on the wiki [05:08] claydoh: I checked and there aren't any relevant blogilo changes 4.7.0 -> .1, so it's something else. FYI. [05:12] thanks, its the only thing affected as far as I see so far, everything else has working spellcheck [05:31] ScottK: I haven't found replacement power source yet, all shops seems to say "out of stock" or something [05:31] OK. [05:58] You need a power supply? [06:04] yes, for iboog g4 [06:04] book too [06:11] ahhh [06:11] I have desktop ones but, none for a laptop in my graveyard [07:34] morning [08:22] so I'm trying to report my tests with my netbook upgrade [08:22] can't find where to report? [08:23] valorie: so that's not iso testing? [08:24] ok, found it [08:24] * Tm_T is puzzled [08:35] no, not quite ISO [08:36] but since it's up-to-the minute current, it's worth testing [08:36] and it is one of the test cases -- had to use control f to find it [08:36] couldn't get a USB key to work, and there is no cd drive [08:37] so it's upgrade or nothing, until I get a different USB key === seajey_ is now known as SeaJey [08:54] valorie: ah, was wondering where it should be reported or such, bugs should be reported in LP anyway though [08:55] right [08:55] the only anomaly I found I'm not sure is a bug [08:55] so I asked in #amarok-devel [08:56] will report if 'tis [09:38] apachelogger: ping [09:39] why did you uploaded touchegg 1.0 ? the ffe is not approved ... [10:38] shadeslayer: Can you test http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/6720 on your mac? [10:38] Got no testing and it takes having actual Mac hardware to do it. [11:01] ScottK: I hope you'll grant a FFe for digikam even if it adds a gazillion lib, -dev and -data packages ... [11:02] debfx: It's granted. It just needs someone to upload it. [11:03] really? the packaging isn't even finished ;) [11:14] apachelogger: finally, pitti closed it as "Fix Released" [11:19] libmediawiki - what a great, utterly non-generic name [11:31] ScottK: about digikam: is there a ppa to test 2.1.1 (like bluedevil and strigi)? I've check yofel_ but there's only 2.0.0 for natty [11:31] I don't know. [11:31] I know someone was working on it, but I don't recall who. [11:31] ScottK: yofel_ was working on it AFAIR but nothing in it's ppas [11:31] debfx: Yes. I know we want it in and the archive is frozen. [11:32] So I can just review it in the queue once it's done. [11:37] is there a digikam bzr repo with latest pkging changes? debfx care to build pkgs for your ppa? I can try to revive my how-to-doit knowledge won't find time until tomorrow morning [11:43] allee: not yet, I'll push it to the bzr repo and a ppa soon [11:53] debfx: great! Thx a lot! === yofel_ is now known as yofel === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan [12:51] ScottK: I think I'll push the bzr branch Qt as soon as we unfreeze (contains a fix for Qt apps using gtk theme which makes either logouting or the machine to swap like crazy (8 GB windows created) [12:56] apachelogger, i will take a look on that === Earthwings_ is now known as Earthwings === txwikinger2 is now known as txwikinger [13:06] didrocks: Did we get fabo's sslv2 patch in? We need that too. [13:06] ScottK: yeah, it's in the bzr branch [13:07] OK. [13:07] Sounds good then. [13:07] ScottK: I'm testing this version in the ubuntu-destkop for already some days [13:07] Great. [13:13] ScottK: i did, it didn't even detect the usb drive, i dd'ed the image onto the usb, but i'll try with usb-creator now [13:13] OK. [13:16] didrocks: Is it in a PPA somewhere? [13:17] ScottK: yeah it's in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa. Be warned, you have other desktop stuff in it, but nothing that should be installed by default in a kubuntu machine I guess [13:17] Can someone test ^^^ Qt packages to make sure they work OK with KDE? [13:18] i can do that right after i do ISO testing [13:39] bambee: Would you be up for working on getting 4.6.5 ready for natty-updates? [13:40] ScottK: sure [13:40] bambee: OK. Here's what needs doing ... [13:41] Take the PPA package in the updates PPA, then check in LP to see if there have been any security updates or SRUs. [13:41] Then look in upstream git/svn to see if there's any really scary looking fixes that hit after 4.6.5 was released. [13:41] Then update the packages in the PPA. [13:42] We'll need a bug that affects all the packages to coordinate SRU testing. [13:42] Once someone (i.e. you) has gone through to make sure we're current, then I'll grab them and upload to -proposed. [13:42] bambee: Sound good? [13:43] yes [13:46] Great. [14:09] shadeslayer: We'll need to decide soon if we're releasing amd64+mac and you're the only tester. How'd it going. [14:09] No pressure. [14:10] ScottK: give me a couple of minutes, i'm copying the ISO over and for some reason my local server running sid hangs up :/ [14:10] OK. [14:10] I think we have an hour or two. [14:10] alright, i'll do it the old fashioned way [14:12] woo kdelibs has 4 fixes on upstream + a security fix [14:26] kaboom [14:26] ssh is busted i think [14:34] bambee: If it looks like we have something that should go upstream, please ping someone with upstream access to commit it (if you don't, I don't recall). [14:34] bambee, you can ping me :-) [14:34] ScottK: anything still needs testing? [14:35] apachelogger: Do you have amd64? [14:35] yes [14:35] ScottK, i could not test the image on pandaboard. tomorrow i will do that, ok? [14:36] rbelem: Gruemaster tested already. [14:36] apachelogger: A few tests left for that: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/6712 [14:36] apachelogger: Particularly the run once cases. AFAIK those haven't been done all cycle. [14:37] apachelogger, for bug #851668, i thinkg echidna made a patch for that [14:37] Launchpad bug 851668 in kde-baseapps (Ubuntu) "Can't install samba from dolphin : kubuntu 11.10 (Oneiric Ocelot)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851668 [14:38] can we get that in plz :D [14:38] ScottK: stupid alternate [14:38] * apachelogger zsyncs [14:40] apachelogger, i'm not sure where the patch is. i will ping him when he shows up [14:40] kk [14:41] ScottK: no I was talking about a security fix pushed on upstream and not fixed in kubuntu [14:41] Oh. [14:41] http://quickgit.kde.org/?p=kdelibs.git&a=shortlog&h=refs/heads/KDE/4.6 <-- the last one [14:41] Need to get that fixed then. [14:41] (pushed by david faure) [14:41] also there are few important fixes (already backported in ~ppa2) [14:42] Thanks. [14:42] I build kdelibs for now, I will push it in the ppa and then I will open a security bug [14:42] allee: digikam finished building in ppa:kubuntu-ppa/experimental [14:43] ScottK: hehe that's my job ;) [14:44] bambee: I did ping someone on #ubuntu-hardened. [14:44] great, thanks [14:48] we also need to cherry-pick that commit into oneiric [14:49] +1 [14:50] * yofel would like to have per stable branch kde-commits lists :S [14:51] I don't understand why it was not reported on kde-packagers... :\ [14:52] debfx: thx!! I'll test when I'm back at home. [14:52] (I could be wrong, but don't remember of it) [14:53] * yofel updates digikam [14:53] \o/ [14:54] "Failed to install the bootloader." [14:55] same as last time [14:56] and you probably trashed your system grub too this time? [14:56] nope [14:56] usb-creator is broken [14:56] then it's progress ^^ [14:57] bug 702283 [14:57] Launchpad bug 702283 in usb-creator (Ubuntu) "usb-creator doesn't create EFI-bootable USB sticks" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/702283 [15:15] hmm [15:16] for some weird reason my backlight controls start working after pulling out the adapter on certain occassions [15:17] and i get /sys/class/backlight/apple_backlight .. any ideas how to ensure i get backlight controls on every boot? [15:23] shadeslayer: I got a USB that failed like that when kauth crashed during the usb setup. [15:24] well, for me, the USB isn't even detected if i dd the ISO, so can't test [15:24] i'm searching for a CD, can't find one [15:27] Sigh. [15:30] does someone know where the translations for the ubiquity slideshow are? [15:30] can't find them [15:32] Rosetta, I'd guess. [15:33] yofel: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu [15:40] ryanakca: Did image uploading for kubuntu.org get fixed yet? [15:44] ulysses: ah thanks, I didn't know I had to go to a specific release [15:50] don't find kdeaccessibility on quickgit.k.o :\ [15:51] arrff it has been splitted ^^ [15:51] fun, isn't it [15:51] hehe [15:51] yofel: Quintasan did anyone of you add more questions to the poll? [15:52] s/anyone/either one/ [15:52] shadeslayer meant: "yofel: Quintasan did either one of you add more questions to the poll?" [15:52] hm... my beta2 amd64 install test is stuck at 90% with ubiquity, jockey-text, rsyslogd and log-output hogging 2 cores [15:52] shadeslayer: don't think so, and I won't think about neon before the weekend [15:52] Wait for it. [15:53] ok [15:53] mhhh everything in the same branch... fun... xD [15:53] after I'm done with the backports it's neon maintenance time [15:53] ScottK: I've been waiting for 20 minutes so far [15:54] How much RAM on the system? [15:54] 2GiB [15:54] Weird. [15:54] Maybe jockey is compiling something. [15:55] * shadeslayer looks at neon TODO [15:58] shadeslayer: I did not, I think that should be enough [15:58] IF I get some ideas I will add them [15:59] the poll is ... too small :P [16:16] ScottK: I really do not get why we need to test all this stuff really [16:16] alternate does not even differ from ubuntu's [16:16] Because sometimes it works on one and not the other. [16:17] and since only the installer itself is tested all we'd needs is a test case "shows kubuntu branding" [16:17] ScottK: why is that? [16:17] Dunno. [16:17] epic waste of resources that is IMHO [16:17] anywho [16:17] installing [16:18] * apachelogger gets more coffee meanwhile [16:37] ScottK: pushing Qt? agateau tested his patch under kubuntu I guess (and it only affect when the gtk theme is selected) [16:38] If he tested in KDE, then I'm fine if you go ahead. [16:38] doing then [16:53] hm, is it just me or muon software center isn't in system settings? [16:58] great, and now muon-installer tells me another package management software is running while apt-get runs perfectly fine (and isn't running when I try to install something in muon) [17:19] ScottK: is it desired that the alternate rescue mode is in purple? [17:25] debfx: ping [17:26] apachelogger: pong [17:26] debfx: how do we do desktop file translation for own projects now? [17:27] I have a desktop file that should probably go into KDS [17:27] jjesse: ping [17:28] DarkwingDuck PONG [17:28] * apachelogger really needs a new laptop [17:29] jjesse: Have you done the translated .POT back to .xml before? [17:29] DarkwingDuck whats up? [17:29] I'm not sure yet, it would be interesting to know how other ubuntu projects handle that (e.g. unity-2d) [17:29] DarkwingDuck nope [17:30] jjesse: Okay. Once I get them back we'll sit down and I'll go through that with you. also, I re-worte the script for updating the .pot files from the xml. I'll do that with you too. The deadline is the 29th for that. [17:31] jjesse: we have teh 29th to the 6th of Oct to get it [17:31] sounds like fun [17:31] i've already made some changes in my own branch once P opens up [17:31] things i didn't get done cause i'm a huge slacker [17:32] jjesse: awesome. Once other thing I wanted to do is update the screen-shots [17:32] yeah that needs to get done, P will be LTS right? [17:32] jjesse: Yes. [17:33] jjesse: I'll be pushing for no major updates in the LTS so we can do more in the docs [17:33] apachelogger: ^^^ :P:P [17:34] pfff [17:34] :D [17:34] I'll switch to opensuse [17:34] LOL [17:34] oh great [17:34] 1 TB of prn [17:34] \o/ [17:34] LOL! [17:35] * apachelogger orders new disk on the amazones [17:35] Sell it on ebay... Wonder how much that would sell for. [17:35] 5bln [17:35] apachelogger: No. [17:35] I filed a bug about that, IIRC. [17:35] ah, a bug to leave rotting :S [17:36] * apachelogger should go zen linux [17:36] i only use hanah montana linux [17:37] LOL! [17:37] * apachelogger beats jjesse with a stick [17:37] thy shalt not use inferior software [17:37] or whas it thou [17:37] I should do a Justin Beaver linux. [17:37] * jjesse grabs that stick and turns it into a microphone and starts singing [17:37] * apachelogger shrugs and filelights his prn [17:38] oh, turns out only 43gb is prn :O [17:38] thats disappointing [17:38] fattest thing is a folder called Movies [17:38] might also be prn on second though [17:38] t [17:38] * apachelogger investigates [17:39] well, some prn [17:39] jjesse: You should have seen some of the collections the guys had on the ship [17:39] quantum of solace [17:39] I cant even remember what that was about [17:39] must have been a good move [17:39] shift del! [17:40] quantom of sollace is james bond movie [17:40] * bambee wonders if one day apachelogger will watch anything else than prn with phonon [17:40] I still cannot rmember [17:40] oh [17:40] chitty chitty bang bang [17:40] epic [17:42] ah, casino royale [17:42] I remember that one, partially [17:42] it plays in a casino [17:42] casino royale <3, eva green <3 [17:42] le fabuleux destin d'amelie poulain [17:43] I think that gets a shift del... I saw that once in german and now I can't watch it no more without getting a sick feeling [17:43] this movie rocks! seriously, it was made by Jean-Pierre Jeunet (alien 4) :) [17:43] monty pyth0rn [17:44] muahahaha [17:44] * apachelogger starts singing [17:44] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqtdpuZxvk [17:46] the great escape [17:46] now that is a good movie [17:46] I think [17:46] * apachelogger remembers only the music [17:57] ScottK: all run once passed [17:57] apachelogger: Thanks. [18:32] Who was doing strigi? [19:24] hi kubuntu devs. can you pull patch for this bug to kubuntu packages: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=281804 [19:24] KDE bug 281804 in style "Clementine Player's seek bar started to blink since version 4 7 0" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] [19:24] video of the bug: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPA_bC4mJl8 [19:25] fix will be released in kde 4.7.2 so is is not included in default oneiric packages [19:26] Should be able to. [19:27] thanks :) [19:28] apachelogger: Could you look over -workspace and see if there are other things we should cherrypick? [19:34] ScottK: The last we discussed, Ng was going to take care of it that afternoon. I'm not sure on any progress. I'll find out. [19:37] ryanakca: Thanks. [19:38] shadeslayer: Find any CDs? [19:38] ScottK: sure if dirk had managed to actually tag 4.7.1 in git [19:38] -.- [19:39] apachelogger: There's at least a commit that says 4.7.1. [19:39] You can work forward from that. [19:39] kubuntu-ppa/ppa needs testing [19:39] it's almost done [19:39] bambee: Is this the updated 4.6.5 stuff? [19:39] yeah [19:39] Cool. [19:40] why [19:40] there is a segfault fix [19:40] f3ca7234ef4329b45bcd369aa49a70972a754302 [19:40] I backported patches for : kdelibs, kdebase-workspace, kdeedu, kdemultimedia and kdeplasma-addons [19:40] bambee: Cool. [19:41] aef5a39dc475cd5e1b2c73b2fd190e3b8aeb40b0 [19:41] mem usage optimization [19:41] apachelogger: every important fix in KDE/4.6 for each package has been backported [19:41] (using quickgit.k.o) [19:42] bambee: apachelogger's on 4.7.1+ [19:42] aah [19:42] ok ;) [19:42] 75021be9184da93c2410b37751bb0b9fdeb5de5a [19:42] fixes kwin assert leading to black screen [19:42] bambee: Take notes though, maybe you could cherrypick these and push in bzr for oneiric? [19:43] apachelogger: ? [19:43] f8d4bfbda31f3bbb43e29341a8f00411dcac4280 <-- fixes oxygen style [19:43] 1857fe0e97e59d26039b10c8770aee48361dc65d [19:43] simple signal signature fix [19:43] mgraesslin: We're looking through 4.7 for post 4.7.1 changes we want since 4.7.2 is too late for us. [19:44] sure, but could you please put the name of the package... ? o.O [19:44] bambee: kde-workspace [19:44] 6747d98264646f123b6da33f36e063eeb5f1fe4a behaviour fix ... not particularly backport worthy from a QA perspective [19:44] ScottK: thanks [19:44] e11273f75c020cdb3797da73b0523dbc7b0cb250 we need for tablet stuff [19:45] ScottK: does that mean we will get for half a year again the bugs agains 4.7.1 ;-) [19:45] mgraesslin: It does. [19:45] * bambee will save this log in a todo.txt [19:45] c3c5b1ba1777b6186f0ccb2e1c4511b975d9aa4c appearance imporvement (also not particularly interesting [19:45] I argued for a later release at the last UDS and lost. [19:46] mgraesslin: I got the schedule fixed for the next fall release though, so as long as KDE stays on it's normal schedule we'll release with 4.8.2/4.9.2 for the next two cycles. [19:46] ScottK: for next time I can prepare a list of all the bugs reported against the version shipped with Kubuntu and had been fixed before the release of Kubuntu [19:46] 1b2dd9cb6b848c2b1ee46897d4c577ba637912aa actual fix for e11273f75c020cdb3797da73b0523dbc7b0cb250 [19:46] We're getting ready to push 4.6.5 for maverick now. [19:47] * apachelogger loves when a fix is not actually a fix so that it needs a fix for the fix [19:47] What we really need to do is push 4.7.5 (or whatever is last) sooner. [19:47] for all I see we could just grab the entire diff between 4.7.1 and dump it into a patch.... [19:47] apachelogger: Sounds reasonable. [19:48] 95d3b39f29cff42ecf17fa17665ec1d3eb84415a is a bit weird though [19:48] into ONE patch ? [19:48] lol [19:48] * apachelogger has no idea what it does and the message is also no fun [19:48] just do git format-patch [19:49] Who's on digikam and strigi? [19:49] I know we need those in soon. [19:49] Riddell: If you have a moment, would you please accept my kde-baseapps upload. [19:56] euh... https://launchpadlibrarian.net/80659343/buildlog_ubuntu-natty-amd64.kdeplasma-addons_4%3A4.6.5-0ubuntu1%7Eppa2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz <-- LOL ? [19:57] * apachelogger reminds ScottK of bug 855612 [19:57] Launchpad bug 855612 in Ubuntu "Feature Freeze Exception for akonadi-facebook" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/855612 [19:57] http://quickgit.kde.org/?p=kdeplasma-addons.git&a=commitdiff&h=44df71f6730ea7f54c873a4ec79ee1a980ab35d8 <-- this patch breaks building o.O [19:57] bambee: it happens [19:58] I know, sometimes I commit shit myself. but it's in kde/4.6 not in master [19:58] well, fixing [19:59] apachelogger: Meh. Whatever. [19:59] apachelogger: Approved. [20:01] bambee: flashdance [20:01] whut? lol [20:02] dud [20:03] bambee: the akonadi-facebook is missing a license copy [20:03] or multiple [20:03] at least one [20:04] arf [20:04] <2011> Roeland Jago Douma [20:04] that line has a tab [20:04] in copyright that is [20:04] and WTH does that thing builddep on webkit [20:04] what the cake [20:05] also stuff in the control exceeds 80 chars per line [20:05] also [20:05] W: akonadi-facebook source: debhelper-but-no-misc-depends libkfacebook-dev [20:07] bambee: symbols file is all diffy [20:07] also [20:07] W: libkfacebook-dev: description-synopsis-starts-with-article [20:08] also [20:08] W: libkfacebook1: description-synopsis-starts-with-article [20:08] also [20:08] E: libkfacebook1: symbols-file-contains-current-version-with-debian-revision on symbol _ZN10NoteAddJob11qt_metacallEN11QMetaObject4CallEiPPv@Base and 481 others [20:11] woo! [20:11] o.O [20:20] apachelogger: I added your comments to my todolist [20:45] apachelogger: ping === ScottK changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu: Friendly Computing | Feature Freeze in effect | Archive Frozen | Kubuntu 11.10 Beta 2 Released! | TODO: http://goo.gl/BD9JL | 4.7.1: http://goo.gl/x6iOf | Congratulations to Tonio_ | 42k schools with Kubuntu: http://goo.gl/3M0G6 [22:05] Someone please update #kubuntu. [22:13] ScottK: no b2 announcement page on wiki? [22:13] ScottK: incidentially enough ... low fat is not mentioned :P [22:33] apachelogger: Feel free to edit. [22:34] Fixed the link on kubuntu.org [22:34] apachelogger: Please add your lowfat here: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/OneiricOcelot/Beta2/Kubuntu [22:49] but what to write? :S [22:49] also I think kwin does not cascade window decroration style settings [22:53] apachelogger: I provide the pallet. The picture is a matter for your artistry. [22:57] error on the website's announcement - "Kubuntu this final Beta release IS" [22:57] sounds like yoda [23:00] * ScottK looks [23:02] lubyou: Fixed it up a bit. [23:04] errr. That was meant for lunarcloud, who didn't stick around ... [23:04] curious fact: low-fat improves time to desktop by about 33% and mem consumption by about 32% [23:04] That's worth a mention. [23:04] more interesting fact... I could probably reduce time to desktop by about 90% with a one line change :P [23:05] rm -rf plasma-desktop? [23:05] no [23:05] just make plasma-desktop not wait for some dbus stuff [23:05] Ah. [23:05] #X-DBUS-StartupType=wait [23:05] What happens if you don't wait? [23:06] ksplash drops you to the desktop while plasma is mocking along with its blocking loading of plasmoids [23:06] useful enough krunner is not the same binary so you can use krunner from that point on IIRC [23:06] I see. [23:07] 76% faster [23:08] Nice [23:08] not the visually most apealing thing (i.e. if a kded fires a notification it will not be cought by plasma and thus be unthemed KDE 3 style knotify) [23:09] incidentially enough our notification helper does that for updates [23:09]