[09:40] <AlanBell> bug 851694 has had a minor improvement
[09:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 851694 in unity-2d "application icons in apps lens are all called "button"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851694
[09:41] <AlanBell> now the top row of a category get read out right
[09:41] <AlanBell> all the others are still called button
[20:02] <charlie-tca> hm, my hardware seems to hate unity now. Did a screen-reader install, got a full two or three minutes of crashes logging in. 
[20:03] <charlie-tca> Ran updates, restart failed completely. Had to re-install to get the desktop back
[20:05] <AlanBell> eww
[20:05]  * AlanBell updates a VM
[20:06] <charlie-tca> That was kind of my thought, too
[20:06] <charlie-tca> reinstalled without orca, just to look unity over
[20:06] <charlie-tca> open dash, seach on accessibility comes up blank. Now have to look for Universal Access instead
[20:07] <AlanBell> oh?
[20:07] <charlie-tca> yup
[20:07] <AlanBell> typing accessibility or using the filter thing?
[20:07] <charlie-tca> Wish they would tell us about these things
[20:08] <charlie-tca> type accessibility
[20:08] <charlie-tca> could not get the filter thing to work
[20:08] <AlanBell> that only works in the apps lens
[20:08] <AlanBell> and not very well
[20:09] <AlanBell> the apps lens is so cluttered and useless it puts everyone off unity
[20:09] <charlie-tca> Yeah, trying to find what was called Accessibility is no good now, though
[20:09] <charlie-tca> We might lose users simply because they changed words and haven't told anyone
[20:10] <charlie-tca> I still can't find anything intuitive about unity, when I need to find things
[20:11] <AlanBell> yes
[20:11] <AlanBell> I think in the dash you are supposed to search for stuff like "screen reader" or "keyboard" generic terms that might be in the description of the thing you are after
[20:12] <charlie-tca> I did try "mousekeys" and "mousetweaks". neither one gets anything
[20:12] <charlie-tca> and looking at "mouse" doesn't get me any a11y stuff
[20:12] <AlanBell> yeah, interesting point
[20:13] <AlanBell> those are kind of screens in the settings application which get muddled up with the other applications
[20:13] <AlanBell> and I guess don't have populated individual descriptions so can't be found
[20:14] <charlie-tca> I don't know, but it fast becoming impossible for me to use Unity. If I have to search for hours/days to find simple settings I need, it isn't worth it anymore. 
[20:15] <charlie-tca> I did find something said fonts - normal/large/larger. I changed to large, and lost the damn gear thing in the panel. only way to restart was in terminal, using "sudo shutdown -r now" 
[20:15] <maco> AlanBell: we can futz with .desktop files to get more SEO descriptions
[20:15] <charlie-tca> That gets the panel resized so you have the gear thing back
[20:16] <AlanBell> charlie-tca: I made a prototype apps lens that groups by category http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/appmenulens.png
[20:17] <charlie-tca> The problem is when they change the name without advertising it. 
[20:17] <charlie-tca> all the groups you can think of are worthless if the word doesn't work
[20:18] <AlanBell> sure, it is a separate thing altogether!
[20:18] <AlanBell> but much better than using the filters
[20:20] <AlanBell> hmm, by the time I have typed "acce" it has found "Universal Access" as the first suggestion
[20:20] <AlanBell> oh great, and orca can't see it at all
[20:20] <maco> trouble is if you keep typing
[20:20] <charlie-tca> so, I typed too fast?
[20:21] <AlanBell> well yeah, clearly it should stay there and "accessibility" should be in the description field somewhere
[20:21] <charlie-tca> When you consider that the last release we had that actually worked for everyone was 10.04, it seems a bit ridiculous now to keep saying Ubuntu cares about accessibility
[20:22] <maco> i dont think i ever bothered making that claim
[20:23] <charlie-tca> apparently, someone needs to really get that point across to Mark
[20:24] <maco> there's a perpetual "next release! next release we really WILL care about accessibility! just you watch us!"
[20:25] <AlanBell> think it was going to be nailed in this release
[20:25] <AlanBell> anyhow, on a positive note, I have closed a bunch of bugs today that have been fixed
[20:26] <maco> that happens?????
[20:26] <maco> i mean, for reasons other than "you havent said anything in 60 days and we cant stand the lack of attention"?
[20:27]  * maco jerk
[20:27] <AlanBell> the big one is the ctrl+s to start orca rather than the embarrassing "when you see the icon" thing
[20:27] <maco> haha
[20:27] <charlie-tca> hm, good thing I didn't file all the crashes I got today with the screenreader install
[20:28] <AlanBell> someone half fixed bug 851694
[20:28] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 851694 in unity-2d "application icons in apps lens are all called "button"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851694
[20:28] <charlie-tca> no one fixed the "continue" is called "next" though
[20:28] <AlanBell> if that one gets fully fixed then unity is a long way towards being OK
[20:29] <AlanBell> the continue called next thing and all the odd terminology in ubiquity is all the same cause I think
[20:29] <charlie-tca> I couldn't tell what was still broken in unity, there were too many crashes all at once. By the time they got done, I could not use the desktop
[20:30] <charlie-tca> Maybe I will try it again tomorrow.
[20:31] <charlie-tca> Can't file the crash bugs when it work at all
[20:31] <AlanBell> it does sometimes go crashy
[20:31] <AlanBell> but that doesn't seem a11y specific, the whole thing is just a bit wobbly
[20:32] <charlie-tca> Well, 15-20 crash reports right after logging in seems really wobbly, especially when it kills all ability to do anything
[20:34] <maco> AlanBell: the continue called next, is, i *think* part of that add_widget stupidity
[20:34] <maco> since the variable name for the button is still next button
[20:34] <AlanBell> gah, bug 851694 seems to have completely rolled back to a full fail again
[20:34] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 851694 in unity-2d "application icons in apps lens are all called "button"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851694
[20:34] <AlanBell> maco: yeah, I suspected as much
[20:35] <maco> even though the weird thing where text is pulled from templatey bits overrides the text at one point
[20:35] <charlie-tca> well, end of ranting, back to work
[20:40] <AlanBell> charlie-tca: bug 781385 is tagged rls-mgr-o-tracking 
[20:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 781385 in ubiquity "Ubiquity GTK should have useful accessible names set in the Glade .ui files instead of using the variable names" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781385
[20:41] <charlie-tca> That only means skaet is watching it, not that someone is actively fixing it yet.
[20:48] <AlanBell> indeed
[20:49] <AlanBell> charlie-tca: do you know about the LDTP tests?
[20:49] <AlanBell> the good thing about this bug is it would be easy to fix
[20:50] <AlanBell> because it is a bit of accessibility technology that was working and has been deliberately broken to make testing easier
[20:50] <charlie-tca> No, I don't
[20:50] <AlanBell> automated testing that is only possible because the accessibility interfaces exist
[22:08] <AlanBell> great session charlie-tca 
[22:21] <charlie-tca> Thank you
[22:21] <charlie-tca> Hard to do that after that install today
[22:23] <charlie-tca> But, then again, *we* are the ones that keep this going, aren't we.