/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/09/26/#ubuntu-accessibility.txt

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AlanBellev is going to sort out the ubiquity breakage, which will mean the text of the installer will all change11:24
AlanBellCheri703: maco: is the revised text all in place?11:24
AlanBellthe patch is in trunk to un-break it already11:26
AlanBellso the live CD installer should be different tomorrow11:27
AlanBellTheMuso: did you find out where to patch the orca pronunciation dictionary?11:27
macoNot yet. I have cheri's changes so I'll apply them14:37
macoAre we past translation freeze already though?14:38
macoAlanbell ^14:38
AlanBellwill check14:40
macoBecause the accessible strings will need to be translated too14:44
macoProbably should check the strings with themuso too14:45
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AlanBellmaco: some of them are so bad they are bugs rather than translations15:03
AlanBelllike referencing 11.04 in the partitioning options15:03
AlanBellor the option to replace windows15:04
AlanBellbug 81741615:54
ubot2Launchpad bug 817416 in unity-2d "[launcher] contextual menus are not spoken by the Orca screen reader" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81741615:54
AlanBello/ charlie-tca 18:22
charlie-tcayeah, here18:22
AlanBellthere has been some stuff happening that looks suspiciously like progress :)18:22
AlanBell bug 78138518:23
ubot2Launchpad bug 781385 in ubiquity "Ubiquity GTK should have useful accessible names set in the Glade .ui files instead of using the variable names" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/78138518:23
AlanBellfix committed :)18:23
charlie-tcaGreat!18:23
charlie-tcaGuess pushing helped then18:23
charlie-tcaOnce in a while, I get one right?18:23
AlanBellyeah, I had a word with ev18:24
charlie-tcaThank you18:24
AlanBellbasically a reminder18:24
charlie-tcaI never knew how hard it can be to determine which bugs are going to be the most important.18:24
AlanBellyeah, that one is going to uncover some more ones18:24
AlanBelland right now is a good time to get a11y bugs worked on18:25
AlanBellwhich it shouldn't be18:25
AlanBellbut at least things are getting testable now18:25
charlie-tcaYeah, We really should not have to wait until the final week to get things fixed18:26
charlie-tcawhich reminds me. I am going to send a response to the uds-p discussion about a11y18:27
PendulumI wonder if that's a suggestion for something to get discussed at UDS "making a11y part of the process"?18:27
Pendulumhaha18:27
charlie-tcaMaybe we can get more people involved18:27
PendulumI was just thinking about that18:27
charlie-tcayeah, somehting along those lines18:27
AlanBellthere have been quite a few discussions now about onboard and unity18:28
AlanBellthat is a significant architectural and standards fail18:28
charlie-tcaYes, but about a few discussions about actually being allowed to make accessibility work for P ?18:28
AlanBellthe windowing system just doesn't have a signal for a window to say it really needs to stay on top, because nobody spotted it as an issue at the right time18:29
AlanBellbut that one I think should be referred to as a touchscreen issue, or a soft keyboard issue, not an a11y specific problem18:30
macoPendulum: will you be at uds?18:31
charlie-tcaIf it is not a11y problem, it will get pushed aside, almost to wishlist18:31
macocharlie-tca: i think AlanBell's suspicion is that they care more about tablets than about a11y18:32
charlie-tcaMaybe right, too18:32
Pendulummaco: nope. wasn't sure if I'd be healthy enough when sponsorship was open and now can't afford it18:32
charlie-tcaOkay, I will go along with that idea, then18:32
PendulumOTOH, didn't Mark say on that thread specifically that Unity wasn't aimed at tablets?18:33
* charlie-tca will be there, trying to push a11y again... :)18:33
* Pendulum will be pushing a11y on remote participation18:33
charlie-tcaPendulum: I am pretty sure they are getting tired of hearing from me now18:33
AlanBellmaco: not quite, I know it is going to be a PITA to fix, I would rather they thought they were doing something that inconvenient for tablets than a11y18:34
macoi might sneak into uds for a11y sessions18:39
macoturns out the train is within my budget, so i figure couchsurfing is doable18:39
Pendulum:)18:40
macoAlanBell: i'm going to commit cheri's a11y updates now. it involves removing the label-setting code from the partitioner page but the stuff in her patch *should* obsolete that anyway. i guess we'll find out with tomorrow's build how that works20:46
AlanBellcool20:47
AlanBellis that in lp:unity or lp:ubuntu/unity?20:47
macoubiquity20:48
macolp:ubiquity20:48
macooh hm right yes that may not do anything to the build20:48
macounless....hm no its too late to bug cjwatson to package the branch :-/20:48
macook fine i guess we'll find out the day after tomorrow20:48
maco(by pestering cjwatson tomorrow)20:51
macoCheri703: your patch is committed20:51
Cheri703cool! :) I hope I did it right >.>20:51
macoit looked reasonable to me20:51
macoand you used glade, so syntax bugs are not a worry. i need to update the other .ui files by hand since glade falls over on them. in that case, syntax bugs are a possible eek20:52
macoAlanBell: what is it that says 11.04 incorrectly?20:56
macoAlanBell: nevermind. i see your bug comment21:00
macoAlanBell: ok that's fixed now too21:02
AlanBellyay, thanks21:02
AlanBellwhat do you think about the replace windows one?21:03
AlanBellhttp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/gui/gtk/stepPartAsk.ui#L32721:06
AlanBellit asked me if I would like to replace windows with ubuntu and I didn't have windows at all21:07
macodoh21:07
macoi'd file a bug on that21:07
AlanBellReplace the current operating system with Ubuntu would be more accurate21:07
macobecause that sounds like some OS-prober stuff should make tha label change21:07
macohmm that would also work21:07
macoi was just going "wait does it ask Mac users that too??"21:07
AlanBellit would do I expect21:08
AlanBellbug 86005121:11
ubot2Launchpad bug 860051 in ubiquity "radio buttons in partitioning page of installer mentions windows" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/86005121:11
Cheri703for the record, if anyone else has easy "type things into boxes" things that need to be done for patches and whatnot, I may be able to help :) (other types of stuff not as much)21:19
macoAlanBell: the .desktop for "Universal Access".... can you run dpkg -S    on it?21:35
AlanBellif I could boot my oneiric VM I would21:36
AlanBellah, if firefox gives me back a couple of gigs of memory maybe a VM will start21:37
macoit shouldnt have changed since natty...i think21:38
macoits just that im on kde21:38
macoso i dont have it installed21:38
AlanBellgnome-universal-access-panel.desktop is in gnome-control-center21:44
macothank ye kindly21:44
AlanBelland that isn't in natty21:44
macooh boo21:44
macooh right. gnome did a lot of kersplat to gnome-control-center21:44
AlanBellgersplat21:45
AlanBellyou need to get out of that K way of thinking :)21:45
macohaha21:45
AlanBellso unity isn't searching the keywords is it21:47
macoi dont think there are keywords21:48
AlanBellthere are squillions of them21:49
macobut a keywords extension to the desktop spec would be nice given gnome kde unity all have searchy launchers21:49
macohmm?21:49
macoh/o im looking at a bug for skaet right now21:49
AlanBellX-GNOME-Keywords=Keyboard;Mouse;a11y;Accessibility;Contrast;Zoom;Screen Reader;text;font;size;AccessX;Sticky Keys;Slow Keys;Bounce Keys;Mouse Keys21:51
AlanBellhttp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/gnome-control-center/oneiric/view/head:/panels/universal-access/gnome-universal-access-panel.desktop.in.in#L1721:51
macogo figure21:52
macoi wonder if caps counts...21:52
AlanBellwhich bug?21:52
macobu 85258321:53
macobug 85258321:53
ubot2Launchpad bug 852583 in gnome-orca "Orca does not pronounce "Oneiric Ocelot" very well" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/85258321:53
AlanBell:)21:53
macoso for the keywords, Name and Comment are being searched but not X-GNOME-Keywords, it seems21:59
macohttps://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/82835622:00
ubot2Ubuntu bug 828356 in unity "Support X-GNOME-Keywords" [Undecided,New]22:00
AlanBellthat should be pretty easy to fix22:01
* maco fetches a unity branch22:03
AlanBellit would be in the apps lens22:06
AlanBellat the point the names all get flung into the search engine thing the keywords need to go in too22:09
macoAlanBell: skaet marked that one as high22:13
AlanBellyay22:16
AlanBelland it is a "fix the a11y reported bug and *lots* of other bits get better" type of bug22:17
AlanBellmaco: did you mean to remove the rls-mgr-o-tracking tag?22:18
macono?22:19
macothere wasnt one there when i clicked the edit22:19
AlanBellI think you and skaet argued over the edit :)22:19
* skaet goes and puts tag back ;)22:19
* maco does a test build on espeak22:23
AlanBellmaco: are you fixing it in espeak?22:23
macoAlanBell: yes22:23
macois that not the right way?22:23
AlanBellgreat, better place to do it than in orca22:23
macooh ok22:23
macoyeah espeak has dictionaries for each language22:24
AlanBellperfect, you can override stuff in orca, but yes, espeak is the right place if you can do that :)22:24
macoif you look in espeak's source package, there is a dictsources/ 22:24
macoin there theres a **_rules and **_list for each language22:25
macoif you dont want to make for evil merges, you add things by making a **_extra22:25
AlanBellspd-say kubuntu22:25
AlanBellspd-say coobuntu22:25
macoUbuntu's in the _list file22:25
macokubuntu sounds like queuebuntu22:26
AlanBellit does22:26
AlanBellspd-say cuh-buntu22:26
macothe syntax you're using in spd-say isnt anything like what goes in the files unfortunately22:26
macohere's what im attempting for oneiric ocelot22:27
macooneiric     oUn'i@3@k22:27
macoocelot      0sEl0t22:27
macodoh22:27
AlanBellgosh22:27
macothat shouldve been oUn'i:r@k22:27
maco@ is for a schwa sound22:28
meetingologymaco: Error: "is" is not a valid command.22:28
macohaha22:28
TheMusoAlanBell: Yeah I started digging into the code yesterday to do that, and I found it, however I found another bug that I needed to work with upstrea to fix. Now that is addressed, I will be doing the work today.22:30
AlanBellTheMuso: maco is doing it now in espeak22:30
TheMusoActually espeak would be a better location, yes.22:31
macomy new version of espeak is building now22:31
TheMusomaco: Ok cool.,22:31
TheMusoOh and plesae don't screw with the ubuntu words as they are pronounced correctly IMO.22:31
macoit sounds odd to me for the glide to be there. like kyu instead of ku22:32
macobut i wont touch unless im told to22:33
AlanBellthe ubuntu part of kubuntu sounds very different to the hinted plain ubuntu22:35
TheMusofair enough22:36
AlanBellmaco: are you using espeakedit?22:39
macono? 22:39
AlanBell!info espeakedit22:40
maco!find espeakedit22:40
* maco glares at the bots22:40
AlanBellit is a phoneme editor thing22:40
AlanBelland it doesn't work22:41
AlanBellWrong version of espeak-data at:22:42
AlanBell/home/alan/espeak-data22:42
AlanBellVersion 0x14404 (expects 0x14300)22:42
AlanBelldidn't mean to paste that here, but anyhow, that is the error message I am filing a bug about22:43
TheMusoespeakedit is an older version22:47
AlanBellyeah, doesn't match the data file22:47
TheMusoRight22:50
AlanBellhttp://espeak.sourceforge.net/test/latest.html there is a new upstream version22:55
AlanBellbug 86011823:03
ubot2Launchpad bug 860118 in espeakedit "Wrong version of espeak-data at: ~/espeak-data Version 0x14404 (expects 0x14300)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/86011823:03
macoAlanBell, TheMuso: http://people.ubuntu.com/~maco.m/oneiric_ocelot.mp323:04
TheMusomaco: eeeeeeeeviiiil23:05
maco:((23:05
macowhy evil?23:05
AlanBellpretty good I think23:05
TheMusoOslot does not sound correct to me....23:05
AlanBellbit oscilot rather than oscelot23:05
macommk lemme mess with that one some more23:06
AlanBell*masses* better than one irick oh slot as it was before :)23:08
macoso do you mean it sounds like theres a i instead of a e?23:09
AlanBellyes, a bit I think23:09
macohmrph i told it to use the e as in tech23:09
AlanBellhmm, listening a few more times it sounds better23:09
AlanBellI can't decide quite how it should sound23:12
macoheh23:13
macofor my accent, rhyme with lancelot23:13
macolike an "uh" sound23:13
AlanBellsomething like that23:13
macoit doesnt sound much different to me when i give it the character for a schwa either23:13
macolets see whats available in the u section....23:14
AlanBellcould be more of a sort "o" or possibly "er" sound23:15
AlanBellocolot or ocerlot23:15
AlanBellor ocalot23:15
macothe er would be distinctly british, to my ear23:15
macoi notice r sounds in a lot of places in brits' words where there's not an r written :P23:16
* AlanBell speaks the Queen's English23:19
AlanBellanyhow I am off to bed now, thanks maco23:20
macogood night23:20
macoshould i make a patch of this version or keep poking?23:20
TheMusoI'll let you guys decide, because I am happy to live with whatever espeak says now, but I can understand the thought that it shoudl be different.23:27
* AlanBell says patch it maco (and goes to bed for real this time)23:29
macoi think i got it to do something a bit closer to correct now23:30
macobut my phone's voice recorder doesnt seem able to pick up the difference23:30
maco-_- the debian/rules file doesnt include the command to rebuild the voices. 23:36
macoTheMuso: should i be manually compiling the voice then committing the changed voice?23:36
TheMusomaco: If you need to rebuild the voices, rebuild them.23:37
macook23:37
macojust surprised that the build didnt do that23:37
TheMusoRight.23:38
TheMusomaco: And thanks for your work on ubiquity as well. I'm about to build packages from the bzr branch to test.23:38
macooh thanks23:39
macoi still dont know how to do that myself23:39
macothere are still more accessible names to fill in in the ui files, but at least now they wont be stomped over23:39
TheMusoRight.23:40
macohm this is odd23:42
macoif i put the recompiled voice into espeak-data/ (because it insists on always recompiling in /usr/share....) bzr doesnt pick up that the file has changed at all23:42
TheMusoYou can tell espeak that the datadir is elsewhere, check the manpage/23:44
macook23:45
TheMusomaco: You might also want to back up the files that get rebuilt, and restore them on package clean.23:45
TheMusoThe clean target shoudl always get the package back to the state it is in when its unpacked.23:45
macothe bzr branch contains the **_dict compiled voices, so i guess they're there when the package is unpacked too23:46
TheMusoI don't work with the bzr branch.23:46
TheMusoI maintain this with the pkg-a11y team in debian using git.23:46
TheMusoBut whatever works.23:46
macoi just did an apt-get source and they're in there when i unpack too. so yeah, those binary-ish dictionaries are shipped precompiled23:47
macowhich seems a little odd to me23:47
macoi can just do it as a debdiff if you prefer23:48
macoeither way itll be funny lookin with the binaryish thing being modified23:48
TheMusodebdiff works.23:48
TheMusothose pre-compiled files came in the upstrea zip file.23:48
macoi need to learn not to take ibuprofen on an empty stomach. heartburn is not pleasant23:55

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