=== API is now known as Guest66753 === Guest66753 is now known as apinheiro [11:24] ev is going to sort out the ubiquity breakage, which will mean the text of the installer will all change [11:24] Cheri703: maco: is the revised text all in place? [11:26] the patch is in trunk to un-break it already [11:27] so the live CD installer should be different tomorrow [11:27] TheMuso: did you find out where to patch the orca pronunciation dictionary? [14:37] Not yet. I have cheri's changes so I'll apply them [14:38] Are we past translation freeze already though? [14:38] Alanbell ^ [14:40] will check [14:44] Because the accessible strings will need to be translated too [14:45] Probably should check the strings with themuso too === API is now known as Guest69001 === Guest69001 is now known as apinheiro [15:03] maco: some of them are so bad they are bugs rather than translations [15:03] like referencing 11.04 in the partitioning options [15:04] or the option to replace windows [15:54] bug 817416 [15:54] Launchpad bug 817416 in unity-2d "[launcher] contextual menus are not spoken by the Orca screen reader" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/817416 [18:22] o/ charlie-tca [18:22] yeah, here [18:22] there has been some stuff happening that looks suspiciously like progress :) [18:23] bug 781385 [18:23] Launchpad bug 781385 in ubiquity "Ubiquity GTK should have useful accessible names set in the Glade .ui files instead of using the variable names" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781385 [18:23] fix committed :) [18:23] Great! [18:23] Guess pushing helped then [18:23] Once in a while, I get one right? [18:24] yeah, I had a word with ev [18:24] Thank you [18:24] basically a reminder [18:24] I never knew how hard it can be to determine which bugs are going to be the most important. [18:24] yeah, that one is going to uncover some more ones [18:25] and right now is a good time to get a11y bugs worked on [18:25] which it shouldn't be [18:25] but at least things are getting testable now [18:26] Yeah, We really should not have to wait until the final week to get things fixed [18:27] which reminds me. I am going to send a response to the uds-p discussion about a11y [18:27] I wonder if that's a suggestion for something to get discussed at UDS "making a11y part of the process"? [18:27] haha [18:27] Maybe we can get more people involved [18:27] I was just thinking about that [18:27] yeah, somehting along those lines [18:28] there have been quite a few discussions now about onboard and unity [18:28] that is a significant architectural and standards fail [18:28] Yes, but about a few discussions about actually being allowed to make accessibility work for P ? [18:29] the windowing system just doesn't have a signal for a window to say it really needs to stay on top, because nobody spotted it as an issue at the right time [18:30] but that one I think should be referred to as a touchscreen issue, or a soft keyboard issue, not an a11y specific problem [18:31] Pendulum: will you be at uds? [18:31] If it is not a11y problem, it will get pushed aside, almost to wishlist [18:32] charlie-tca: i think AlanBell's suspicion is that they care more about tablets than about a11y [18:32] Maybe right, too [18:32] maco: nope. wasn't sure if I'd be healthy enough when sponsorship was open and now can't afford it [18:32] Okay, I will go along with that idea, then [18:33] OTOH, didn't Mark say on that thread specifically that Unity wasn't aimed at tablets? [18:33] * charlie-tca will be there, trying to push a11y again... :) [18:33] * Pendulum will be pushing a11y on remote participation [18:33] Pendulum: I am pretty sure they are getting tired of hearing from me now [18:34] maco: not quite, I know it is going to be a PITA to fix, I would rather they thought they were doing something that inconvenient for tablets than a11y [18:39] i might sneak into uds for a11y sessions [18:39] turns out the train is within my budget, so i figure couchsurfing is doable [18:40] :) [20:46] AlanBell: i'm going to commit cheri's a11y updates now. it involves removing the label-setting code from the partitioner page but the stuff in her patch *should* obsolete that anyway. i guess we'll find out with tomorrow's build how that works [20:47] cool [20:47] is that in lp:unity or lp:ubuntu/unity? [20:48] ubiquity [20:48] lp:ubiquity [20:48] oh hm right yes that may not do anything to the build [20:48] unless....hm no its too late to bug cjwatson to package the branch :-/ [20:48] ok fine i guess we'll find out the day after tomorrow [20:51] (by pestering cjwatson tomorrow) [20:51] Cheri703: your patch is committed [20:51] cool! :) I hope I did it right >.> [20:51] it looked reasonable to me [20:52] and you used glade, so syntax bugs are not a worry. i need to update the other .ui files by hand since glade falls over on them. in that case, syntax bugs are a possible eek [20:56] AlanBell: what is it that says 11.04 incorrectly? [21:00] AlanBell: nevermind. i see your bug comment [21:02] AlanBell: ok that's fixed now too [21:02] yay, thanks [21:03] what do you think about the replace windows one? [21:06] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/gui/gtk/stepPartAsk.ui#L327 [21:07] it asked me if I would like to replace windows with ubuntu and I didn't have windows at all [21:07] doh [21:07] i'd file a bug on that [21:07] Replace the current operating system with Ubuntu would be more accurate [21:07] because that sounds like some OS-prober stuff should make tha label change [21:07] hmm that would also work [21:07] i was just going "wait does it ask Mac users that too??" [21:08] it would do I expect [21:11] bug 860051 [21:11] Launchpad bug 860051 in ubiquity "radio buttons in partitioning page of installer mentions windows" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/860051 [21:19] for the record, if anyone else has easy "type things into boxes" things that need to be done for patches and whatnot, I may be able to help :) (other types of stuff not as much) [21:35] AlanBell: the .desktop for "Universal Access".... can you run dpkg -S on it? [21:36] if I could boot my oneiric VM I would [21:37] ah, if firefox gives me back a couple of gigs of memory maybe a VM will start [21:38] it shouldnt have changed since natty...i think [21:38] its just that im on kde [21:38] so i dont have it installed [21:44] gnome-universal-access-panel.desktop is in gnome-control-center [21:44] thank ye kindly [21:44] and that isn't in natty [21:44] oh boo [21:44] oh right. gnome did a lot of kersplat to gnome-control-center [21:45] gersplat [21:45] you need to get out of that K way of thinking :) [21:45] haha [21:47] so unity isn't searching the keywords is it [21:48] i dont think there are keywords [21:49] there are squillions of them [21:49] but a keywords extension to the desktop spec would be nice given gnome kde unity all have searchy launchers [21:49] hmm? [21:49] h/o im looking at a bug for skaet right now [21:51] X-GNOME-Keywords=Keyboard;Mouse;a11y;Accessibility;Contrast;Zoom;Screen Reader;text;font;size;AccessX;Sticky Keys;Slow Keys;Bounce Keys;Mouse Keys [21:51] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/gnome-control-center/oneiric/view/head:/panels/universal-access/gnome-universal-access-panel.desktop.in.in#L17 [21:52] go figure [21:52] i wonder if caps counts... [21:52] which bug? [21:53] bu 852583 [21:53] bug 852583 [21:53] Launchpad bug 852583 in gnome-orca "Orca does not pronounce "Oneiric Ocelot" very well" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/852583 [21:53] :) [21:59] so for the keywords, Name and Comment are being searched but not X-GNOME-Keywords, it seems [22:00] https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/828356 [22:00] Ubuntu bug 828356 in unity "Support X-GNOME-Keywords" [Undecided,New] [22:01] that should be pretty easy to fix [22:03] * maco fetches a unity branch [22:06] it would be in the apps lens [22:09] at the point the names all get flung into the search engine thing the keywords need to go in too [22:13] AlanBell: skaet marked that one as high [22:16] yay [22:17] and it is a "fix the a11y reported bug and *lots* of other bits get better" type of bug [22:18] maco: did you mean to remove the rls-mgr-o-tracking tag? [22:19] no? [22:19] there wasnt one there when i clicked the edit [22:19] I think you and skaet argued over the edit :) [22:19] * skaet goes and puts tag back ;) [22:23] * maco does a test build on espeak [22:23] maco: are you fixing it in espeak? [22:23] AlanBell: yes [22:23] is that not the right way? [22:23] great, better place to do it than in orca [22:23] oh ok [22:24] yeah espeak has dictionaries for each language [22:24] perfect, you can override stuff in orca, but yes, espeak is the right place if you can do that :) [22:24] if you look in espeak's source package, there is a dictsources/ [22:25] in there theres a **_rules and **_list for each language [22:25] if you dont want to make for evil merges, you add things by making a **_extra [22:25] spd-say kubuntu [22:25] spd-say coobuntu [22:25] Ubuntu's in the _list file [22:26] kubuntu sounds like queuebuntu [22:26] it does [22:26] spd-say cuh-buntu [22:26] the syntax you're using in spd-say isnt anything like what goes in the files unfortunately [22:27] here's what im attempting for oneiric ocelot [22:27] oneiric oUn'i@3@k [22:27] ocelot 0sEl0t [22:27] doh [22:27] gosh [22:27] that shouldve been oUn'i:r@k [22:28] @ is for a schwa sound [22:28] maco: Error: "is" is not a valid command. [22:28] haha [22:30] AlanBell: Yeah I started digging into the code yesterday to do that, and I found it, however I found another bug that I needed to work with upstrea to fix. Now that is addressed, I will be doing the work today. [22:30] TheMuso: maco is doing it now in espeak [22:31] Actually espeak would be a better location, yes. [22:31] my new version of espeak is building now [22:31] maco: Ok cool., [22:31] Oh and plesae don't screw with the ubuntu words as they are pronounced correctly IMO. [22:32] it sounds odd to me for the glide to be there. like kyu instead of ku [22:33] but i wont touch unless im told to [22:35] the ubuntu part of kubuntu sounds very different to the hinted plain ubuntu [22:36] fair enough [22:39] maco: are you using espeakedit? [22:39] no? [22:40] !info espeakedit [22:40] !find espeakedit [22:40] * maco glares at the bots [22:40] it is a phoneme editor thing [22:41] and it doesn't work [22:42] Wrong version of espeak-data at: [22:42] /home/alan/espeak-data [22:42] Version 0x14404 (expects 0x14300) [22:43] didn't mean to paste that here, but anyhow, that is the error message I am filing a bug about [22:47] espeakedit is an older version [22:47] yeah, doesn't match the data file [22:50] Right [22:55] http://espeak.sourceforge.net/test/latest.html there is a new upstream version [23:03] bug 860118 [23:03] Launchpad bug 860118 in espeakedit "Wrong version of espeak-data at: ~/espeak-data Version 0x14404 (expects 0x14300)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/860118 [23:04] AlanBell, TheMuso: http://people.ubuntu.com/~maco.m/oneiric_ocelot.mp3 [23:05] maco: eeeeeeeeviiiil [23:05] :(( [23:05] why evil? [23:05] pretty good I think [23:05] Oslot does not sound correct to me.... [23:05] bit oscilot rather than oscelot [23:06] mmk lemme mess with that one some more [23:08] *masses* better than one irick oh slot as it was before :) [23:09] so do you mean it sounds like theres a i instead of a e? [23:09] yes, a bit I think [23:09] hmrph i told it to use the e as in tech [23:09] hmm, listening a few more times it sounds better [23:12] I can't decide quite how it should sound [23:13] heh [23:13] for my accent, rhyme with lancelot [23:13] like an "uh" sound [23:13] something like that [23:13] it doesnt sound much different to me when i give it the character for a schwa either [23:14] lets see whats available in the u section.... [23:15] could be more of a sort "o" or possibly "er" sound [23:15] ocolot or ocerlot [23:15] or ocalot [23:15] the er would be distinctly british, to my ear [23:16] i notice r sounds in a lot of places in brits' words where there's not an r written :P [23:19] * AlanBell speaks the Queen's English [23:20] anyhow I am off to bed now, thanks maco [23:20] good night [23:20] should i make a patch of this version or keep poking? [23:27] I'll let you guys decide, because I am happy to live with whatever espeak says now, but I can understand the thought that it shoudl be different. [23:29] * AlanBell says patch it maco (and goes to bed for real this time) [23:30] i think i got it to do something a bit closer to correct now [23:30] but my phone's voice recorder doesnt seem able to pick up the difference [23:36] -_- the debian/rules file doesnt include the command to rebuild the voices. [23:36] TheMuso: should i be manually compiling the voice then committing the changed voice? [23:37] maco: If you need to rebuild the voices, rebuild them. [23:37] ok [23:37] just surprised that the build didnt do that [23:38] Right. [23:38] maco: And thanks for your work on ubiquity as well. I'm about to build packages from the bzr branch to test. [23:39] oh thanks [23:39] i still dont know how to do that myself [23:39] there are still more accessible names to fill in in the ui files, but at least now they wont be stomped over [23:40] Right. [23:42] hm this is odd [23:42] if i put the recompiled voice into espeak-data/ (because it insists on always recompiling in /usr/share....) bzr doesnt pick up that the file has changed at all [23:44] You can tell espeak that the datadir is elsewhere, check the manpage/ [23:45] ok [23:45] maco: You might also want to back up the files that get rebuilt, and restore them on package clean. [23:45] The clean target shoudl always get the package back to the state it is in when its unpacked. [23:46] the bzr branch contains the **_dict compiled voices, so i guess they're there when the package is unpacked too [23:46] I don't work with the bzr branch. [23:46] I maintain this with the pkg-a11y team in debian using git. [23:46] But whatever works. [23:47] i just did an apt-get source and they're in there when i unpack too. so yeah, those binary-ish dictionaries are shipped precompiled [23:47] which seems a little odd to me [23:48] i can just do it as a debdiff if you prefer [23:48] either way itll be funny lookin with the binaryish thing being modified [23:48] debdiff works. [23:48] those pre-compiled files came in the upstrea zip file. [23:55] i need to learn not to take ibuprofen on an empty stomach. heartburn is not pleasant