[11:24] <AlanBell> ev is going to sort out the ubiquity breakage, which will mean the text of the installer will all change
[11:24] <AlanBell> Cheri703: maco: is the revised text all in place?
[11:26] <AlanBell> the patch is in trunk to un-break it already
[11:27] <AlanBell> so the live CD installer should be different tomorrow
[11:27] <AlanBell> TheMuso: did you find out where to patch the orca pronunciation dictionary?
[14:37] <maco> Not yet. I have cheri's changes so I'll apply them
[14:38] <maco> Are we past translation freeze already though?
[14:38] <maco> Alanbell ^
[14:40] <AlanBell> will check
[14:44] <maco> Because the accessible strings will need to be translated too
[14:45] <maco> Probably should check the strings with themuso too
[15:03] <AlanBell> maco: some of them are so bad they are bugs rather than translations
[15:03] <AlanBell> like referencing 11.04 in the partitioning options
[15:04] <AlanBell> or the option to replace windows
[15:54] <AlanBell> bug 817416
[15:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 817416 in unity-2d "[launcher] contextual menus are not spoken by the Orca screen reader" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/817416
[18:22] <AlanBell> o/ charlie-tca 
[18:22] <charlie-tca> yeah, here
[18:22] <AlanBell> there has been some stuff happening that looks suspiciously like progress :)
[18:23] <AlanBell>  bug 781385
[18:23] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 781385 in ubiquity "Ubiquity GTK should have useful accessible names set in the Glade .ui files instead of using the variable names" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781385
[18:23] <AlanBell> fix committed :)
[18:23] <charlie-tca> Great!
[18:23] <charlie-tca> Guess pushing helped then
[18:23] <charlie-tca> Once in a while, I get one right?
[18:24] <AlanBell> yeah, I had a word with ev
[18:24] <charlie-tca> Thank you
[18:24] <AlanBell> basically a reminder
[18:24] <charlie-tca> I never knew how hard it can be to determine which bugs are going to be the most important.
[18:24] <AlanBell> yeah, that one is going to uncover some more ones
[18:25] <AlanBell> and right now is a good time to get a11y bugs worked on
[18:25] <AlanBell> which it shouldn't be
[18:25] <AlanBell> but at least things are getting testable now
[18:26] <charlie-tca> Yeah, We really should not have to wait until the final week to get things fixed
[18:27] <charlie-tca> which reminds me. I am going to send a response to the uds-p discussion about a11y
[18:27] <Pendulum> I wonder if that's a suggestion for something to get discussed at UDS "making a11y part of the process"?
[18:27] <Pendulum> haha
[18:27] <charlie-tca> Maybe we can get more people involved
[18:27] <Pendulum> I was just thinking about that
[18:27] <charlie-tca> yeah, somehting along those lines
[18:28] <AlanBell> there have been quite a few discussions now about onboard and unity
[18:28] <AlanBell> that is a significant architectural and standards fail
[18:28] <charlie-tca> Yes, but about a few discussions about actually being allowed to make accessibility work for P ?
[18:29] <AlanBell> the windowing system just doesn't have a signal for a window to say it really needs to stay on top, because nobody spotted it as an issue at the right time
[18:30] <AlanBell> but that one I think should be referred to as a touchscreen issue, or a soft keyboard issue, not an a11y specific problem
[18:31] <maco> Pendulum: will you be at uds?
[18:31] <charlie-tca> If it is not a11y problem, it will get pushed aside, almost to wishlist
[18:32] <maco> charlie-tca: i think AlanBell's suspicion is that they care more about tablets than about a11y
[18:32] <charlie-tca> Maybe right, too
[18:32] <Pendulum> maco: nope. wasn't sure if I'd be healthy enough when sponsorship was open and now can't afford it
[18:32] <charlie-tca> Okay, I will go along with that idea, then
[18:33] <Pendulum> OTOH, didn't Mark say on that thread specifically that Unity wasn't aimed at tablets?
[18:33]  * charlie-tca will be there, trying to push a11y again... :)
[18:33]  * Pendulum will be pushing a11y on remote participation
[18:33] <charlie-tca> Pendulum: I am pretty sure they are getting tired of hearing from me now
[18:34] <AlanBell> maco: not quite, I know it is going to be a PITA to fix, I would rather they thought they were doing something that inconvenient for tablets than a11y
[18:39] <maco> i might sneak into uds for a11y sessions
[18:39] <maco> turns out the train is within my budget, so i figure couchsurfing is doable
[18:40] <Pendulum> :)
[20:46] <maco> AlanBell: i'm going to commit cheri's a11y updates now. it involves removing the label-setting code from the partitioner page but the stuff in her patch *should* obsolete that anyway. i guess we'll find out with tomorrow's build how that works
[20:47] <AlanBell> cool
[20:47] <AlanBell> is that in lp:unity or lp:ubuntu/unity?
[20:48] <maco> ubiquity
[20:48] <maco> lp:ubiquity
[20:48] <maco> oh hm right yes that may not do anything to the build
[20:48] <maco> unless....hm no its too late to bug cjwatson to package the branch :-/
[20:48] <maco> ok fine i guess we'll find out the day after tomorrow
[20:51] <maco> (by pestering cjwatson tomorrow)
[20:51] <maco> Cheri703: your patch is committed
[20:51] <Cheri703> cool! :) I hope I did it right >.>
[20:51] <maco> it looked reasonable to me
[20:52] <maco> and you used glade, so syntax bugs are not a worry. i need to update the other .ui files by hand since glade falls over on them. in that case, syntax bugs are a possible eek
[20:56] <maco> AlanBell: what is it that says 11.04 incorrectly?
[21:00] <maco> AlanBell: nevermind. i see your bug comment
[21:02] <maco> AlanBell: ok that's fixed now too
[21:02] <AlanBell> yay, thanks
[21:03] <AlanBell> what do you think about the replace windows one?
[21:06] <AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/gui/gtk/stepPartAsk.ui#L327
[21:07] <AlanBell> it asked me if I would like to replace windows with ubuntu and I didn't have windows at all
[21:07] <maco> doh
[21:07] <maco> i'd file a bug on that
[21:07] <AlanBell> Replace the current operating system with Ubuntu would be more accurate
[21:07] <maco> because that sounds like some OS-prober stuff should make tha label change
[21:07] <maco> hmm that would also work
[21:07] <maco> i was just going "wait does it ask Mac users that too??"
[21:08] <AlanBell> it would do I expect
[21:11] <AlanBell> bug 860051
[21:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 860051 in ubiquity "radio buttons in partitioning page of installer mentions windows" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/860051
[21:19] <Cheri703> for the record, if anyone else has easy "type things into boxes" things that need to be done for patches and whatnot, I may be able to help :) (other types of stuff not as much)
[21:35] <maco> AlanBell: the .desktop for "Universal Access".... can you run dpkg -S    on it?
[21:36] <AlanBell> if I could boot my oneiric VM I would
[21:37] <AlanBell> ah, if firefox gives me back a couple of gigs of memory maybe a VM will start
[21:38] <maco> it shouldnt have changed since natty...i think
[21:38] <maco> its just that im on kde
[21:38] <maco> so i dont have it installed
[21:44] <AlanBell> gnome-universal-access-panel.desktop is in gnome-control-center
[21:44] <maco> thank ye kindly
[21:44] <AlanBell> and that isn't in natty
[21:44] <maco> oh boo
[21:44] <maco> oh right. gnome did a lot of kersplat to gnome-control-center
[21:45] <AlanBell> gersplat
[21:45] <AlanBell> you need to get out of that K way of thinking :)
[21:45] <maco> haha
[21:47] <AlanBell> so unity isn't searching the keywords is it
[21:48] <maco> i dont think there are keywords
[21:49] <AlanBell> there are squillions of them
[21:49] <maco> but a keywords extension to the desktop spec would be nice given gnome kde unity all have searchy launchers
[21:49] <maco> hmm?
[21:49] <maco> h/o im looking at a bug for skaet right now
[21:51] <AlanBell> X-GNOME-Keywords=Keyboard;Mouse;a11y;Accessibility;Contrast;Zoom;Screen Reader;text;font;size;AccessX;Sticky Keys;Slow Keys;Bounce Keys;Mouse Keys
[21:51] <AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/gnome-control-center/oneiric/view/head:/panels/universal-access/gnome-universal-access-panel.desktop.in.in#L17
[21:52] <maco> go figure
[21:52] <maco> i wonder if caps counts...
[21:52] <AlanBell> which bug?
[21:53] <maco> bu 852583
[21:53] <maco> bug 852583
[21:53] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 852583 in gnome-orca "Orca does not pronounce "Oneiric Ocelot" very well" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/852583
[21:53] <AlanBell> :)
[21:59] <maco> so for the keywords, Name and Comment are being searched but not X-GNOME-Keywords, it seems
[22:00] <maco> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/828356
[22:00] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 828356 in unity "Support X-GNOME-Keywords" [Undecided,New]
[22:01] <AlanBell> that should be pretty easy to fix
[22:03]  * maco fetches a unity branch
[22:06] <AlanBell> it would be in the apps lens
[22:09] <AlanBell> at the point the names all get flung into the search engine thing the keywords need to go in too
[22:13] <maco> AlanBell: skaet marked that one as high
[22:16] <AlanBell> yay
[22:17] <AlanBell> and it is a "fix the a11y reported bug and *lots* of other bits get better" type of bug
[22:18] <AlanBell> maco: did you mean to remove the rls-mgr-o-tracking tag?
[22:19] <maco> no?
[22:19] <maco> there wasnt one there when i clicked the edit
[22:19] <AlanBell> I think you and skaet argued over the edit :)
[22:19]  * skaet goes and puts tag back ;)
[22:23]  * maco does a test build on espeak
[22:23] <AlanBell> maco: are you fixing it in espeak?
[22:23] <maco> AlanBell: yes
[22:23] <maco> is that not the right way?
[22:23] <AlanBell> great, better place to do it than in orca
[22:23] <maco> oh ok
[22:24] <maco> yeah espeak has dictionaries for each language
[22:24] <AlanBell> perfect, you can override stuff in orca, but yes, espeak is the right place if you can do that :)
[22:24] <maco> if you look in espeak's source package, there is a dictsources/ 
[22:25] <maco> in there theres a **_rules and **_list for each language
[22:25] <maco> if you dont want to make for evil merges, you add things by making a **_extra
[22:25] <AlanBell> spd-say kubuntu
[22:25] <AlanBell> spd-say coobuntu
[22:25] <maco> Ubuntu's in the _list file
[22:26] <maco> kubuntu sounds like queuebuntu
[22:26] <AlanBell> it does
[22:26] <AlanBell> spd-say cuh-buntu
[22:26] <maco> the syntax you're using in spd-say isnt anything like what goes in the files unfortunately
[22:27] <maco> here's what im attempting for oneiric ocelot
[22:27] <maco> oneiric     oUn'i@3@k
[22:27] <maco> ocelot      0sEl0t
[22:27] <maco> doh
[22:27] <AlanBell> gosh
[22:27] <maco> that shouldve been oUn'i:r@k
[22:28] <maco> @ is for a schwa sound
[22:28] <meetingology> maco: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
[22:28] <maco> haha
[22:30] <TheMuso> AlanBell: Yeah I started digging into the code yesterday to do that, and I found it, however I found another bug that I needed to work with upstrea to fix. Now that is addressed, I will be doing the work today.
[22:30] <AlanBell> TheMuso: maco is doing it now in espeak
[22:31] <TheMuso> Actually espeak would be a better location, yes.
[22:31] <maco> my new version of espeak is building now
[22:31] <TheMuso> maco: Ok cool.,
[22:31] <TheMuso> Oh and plesae don't screw with the ubuntu words as they are pronounced correctly IMO.
[22:32] <maco> it sounds odd to me for the glide to be there. like kyu instead of ku
[22:33] <maco> but i wont touch unless im told to
[22:35] <AlanBell> the ubuntu part of kubuntu sounds very different to the hinted plain ubuntu
[22:36] <TheMuso> fair enough
[22:39] <AlanBell> maco: are you using espeakedit?
[22:39] <maco> no? 
[22:40] <AlanBell> !info espeakedit
[22:40] <maco> !find espeakedit
[22:40]  * maco glares at the bots
[22:40] <AlanBell> it is a phoneme editor thing
[22:41] <AlanBell> and it doesn't work
[22:42] <AlanBell> Wrong version of espeak-data at:
[22:42] <AlanBell> /home/alan/espeak-data
[22:42] <AlanBell> Version 0x14404 (expects 0x14300)
[22:43] <AlanBell> didn't mean to paste that here, but anyhow, that is the error message I am filing a bug about
[22:47] <TheMuso> espeakedit is an older version
[22:47] <AlanBell> yeah, doesn't match the data file
[22:50] <TheMuso> Right
[22:55] <AlanBell> http://espeak.sourceforge.net/test/latest.html there is a new upstream version
[23:03] <AlanBell> bug 860118
[23:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 860118 in espeakedit "Wrong version of espeak-data at: ~/espeak-data Version 0x14404 (expects 0x14300)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/860118
[23:04] <maco> AlanBell, TheMuso: http://people.ubuntu.com/~maco.m/oneiric_ocelot.mp3
[23:05] <TheMuso> maco: eeeeeeeeviiiil
[23:05] <maco> :((
[23:05] <maco> why evil?
[23:05] <AlanBell> pretty good I think
[23:05] <TheMuso> Oslot does not sound correct to me....
[23:05] <AlanBell> bit oscilot rather than oscelot
[23:06] <maco> mmk lemme mess with that one some more
[23:08] <AlanBell> *masses* better than one irick oh slot as it was before :)
[23:09] <maco> so do you mean it sounds like theres a i instead of a e?
[23:09] <AlanBell> yes, a bit I think
[23:09] <maco> hmrph i told it to use the e as in tech
[23:09] <AlanBell> hmm, listening a few more times it sounds better
[23:12] <AlanBell> I can't decide quite how it should sound
[23:13] <maco> heh
[23:13] <maco> for my accent, rhyme with lancelot
[23:13] <maco> like an "uh" sound
[23:13] <AlanBell> something like that
[23:13] <maco> it doesnt sound much different to me when i give it the character for a schwa either
[23:14] <maco> lets see whats available in the u section....
[23:15] <AlanBell> could be more of a sort "o" or possibly "er" sound
[23:15] <AlanBell> ocolot or ocerlot
[23:15] <AlanBell> or ocalot
[23:15] <maco> the er would be distinctly british, to my ear
[23:16] <maco> i notice r sounds in a lot of places in brits' words where there's not an r written :P
[23:19]  * AlanBell speaks the Queen's English
[23:20] <AlanBell> anyhow I am off to bed now, thanks maco
[23:20] <maco> good night
[23:20] <maco> should i make a patch of this version or keep poking?
[23:27] <TheMuso> I'll let you guys decide, because I am happy to live with whatever espeak says now, but I can understand the thought that it shoudl be different.
[23:29]  * AlanBell says patch it maco (and goes to bed for real this time)
[23:30] <maco> i think i got it to do something a bit closer to correct now
[23:30] <maco> but my phone's voice recorder doesnt seem able to pick up the difference
[23:36] <maco> -_- the debian/rules file doesnt include the command to rebuild the voices. 
[23:36] <maco> TheMuso: should i be manually compiling the voice then committing the changed voice?
[23:37] <TheMuso> maco: If you need to rebuild the voices, rebuild them.
[23:37] <maco> ok
[23:37] <maco> just surprised that the build didnt do that
[23:38] <TheMuso> Right.
[23:38] <TheMuso> maco: And thanks for your work on ubiquity as well. I'm about to build packages from the bzr branch to test.
[23:39] <maco> oh thanks
[23:39] <maco> i still dont know how to do that myself
[23:39] <maco> there are still more accessible names to fill in in the ui files, but at least now they wont be stomped over
[23:40] <TheMuso> Right.
[23:42] <maco> hm this is odd
[23:42] <maco> if i put the recompiled voice into espeak-data/ (because it insists on always recompiling in /usr/share....) bzr doesnt pick up that the file has changed at all
[23:44] <TheMuso> You can tell espeak that the datadir is elsewhere, check the manpage/
[23:45] <maco> ok
[23:45] <TheMuso> maco: You might also want to back up the files that get rebuilt, and restore them on package clean.
[23:45] <TheMuso> The clean target shoudl always get the package back to the state it is in when its unpacked.
[23:46] <maco> the bzr branch contains the **_dict compiled voices, so i guess they're there when the package is unpacked too
[23:46] <TheMuso> I don't work with the bzr branch.
[23:46] <TheMuso> I maintain this with the pkg-a11y team in debian using git.
[23:46] <TheMuso> But whatever works.
[23:47] <maco> i just did an apt-get source and they're in there when i unpack too. so yeah, those binary-ish dictionaries are shipped precompiled
[23:47] <maco> which seems a little odd to me
[23:48] <maco> i can just do it as a debdiff if you prefer
[23:48] <maco> either way itll be funny lookin with the binaryish thing being modified
[23:48] <TheMuso> debdiff works.
[23:48] <TheMuso> those pre-compiled files came in the upstrea zip file.
[23:55] <maco> i need to learn not to take ibuprofen on an empty stomach. heartburn is not pleasant