[00:01] <TheMuso> Ouch.
[00:39] <TheMuso> maco: Thanks for that, I'll probably set things up to rebuild the files instead, and only have a text diff for that change, as it will likely be cleaner.
[00:40] <maco> ok. i wasnt sure about heavily modifying debian/rules just in ubuntu...seemed like merge hell
[00:40] <maco> but you have debian access so you can avoid that i guess :P
[00:40] <TheMuso> Yeah I don't mind doing that.
[03:03] <TheMuso> ./c
[04:34] <TheMuso> maco: Thanks for your work on espeak. I merged it into the git vcs branch for Ubuntu, as well as picking some other changes from Debian. I converted it to a patch, since Debian is using quilt v3 format, and I altered debian/rules to rebuild the english dictionary on package build.
[05:27] <maco> TheMuso: you rock
[06:17]  * AlanBell hugs maco and TheMuso 
[09:49] <Fudge> what were you compiling espeak for guys
[09:53] <AlanBell> Fudge: to add pronunciation hints for "oneiric" and "ocelot"
[09:58] <Fudge> nice
[10:01] <Fudge> AlanBell  is it usable yet, oneiric?
[10:03] <AlanBell> it is getting there
[10:03] <AlanBell> there are significant improvements in the ubiquity installer about to arrive (not sure they made todays build)
[10:04] <AlanBell> there is a problem with unity and it reading out "button" for every app rather than the app name, but I think that will be fixed soon
[10:16] <Fudge> gets me why ubuntu has gone down this unity path
[10:17] <Fudge> think ill be happy with xfce is more accessible 
[14:54] <AlanBell> what other burning issues are there for a11y in oneiric?
[14:55] <AlanBell> the installer is becoming reasonable
[14:55] <AlanBell> unity2d and orca are not exactly friends, but I think that might come together before release
[14:56] <AlanBell> onboard can type into unity 2d but not 3d
[14:57] <AlanBell> the release can pronounce it's own codename :)
[15:03] <AlanBell> Pendulum: any other bit issues you know about?
[15:08] <Pendulum> off the top of my head, no, but I haven't sorted through my bugmail recently ;-)
[16:47] <AlanBell> charlie-tca: hi
[16:47] <charlie-tca> Hello, AlanBell 
[16:47] <AlanBell> what are the showstopper a11y bugs from your point of view now?
[16:48] <AlanBell> the installer is getting better
[16:48] <charlie-tca> I have to look again. Onboard is looking good. We still have at-spi crashing upgrades
[16:48] <AlanBell> onboard works with unity 2d but not 3d (works for applications in 3d, just not the dash)
[16:49] <charlie-tca> We can release note 2d for a11y
[16:49] <AlanBell> unity 2d and the "everything is called button" bug might get fixed
[16:49] <charlie-tca> That would be nice.
[16:50] <charlie-tca> I will look the list over today and see, but I don't know of any show-stoppers yet.
[16:51] <AlanBell> against all expectations this might come together as a decent release
[16:51] <charlie-tca> That would be really good
[16:54] <AlanBell> hopefully the LTS will be testable sooner so we are dealing with small bugs not show stoppers
[16:55] <AlanBell> we should line up a blog article for release day
[17:00] <charlie-tca> A blog article would be great. Especially with the Ctrl+s working
[17:01] <charlie-tca> But I won't have time to write that one
[17:04] <Pendulum> AlanBell: do you want to do it or I can?
[17:04] <AlanBell> we can both do it
[17:04] <AlanBell> but I need to do chargeable stuff this week :)
[17:47] <joanie> is there a supersecret keystroke to get to the top panel to choose shutdown from the login screen?
[17:47] <joanie> and then to give focus to the resulting window to choose restart/shutdown?
[17:54] <charlie-tca> F10 should get you to and from the panel, arrow keys navigate across
[17:55] <charlie-tca> Oh, login screen...
[17:55] <charlie-tca> Maybe it will work, maybe we have to wait for TheMuso to tell us the real keys
[17:57] <joanie> charlie-tca: thanks lemme try that. Although once I clicked the resulting dialog was still inaccessible
[17:57] <joanie> f10 sweet
[17:57] <joanie> thanks charlie-tca 
[17:57] <charlie-tca> you are welcome
[17:57] <joanie> that just leaves the dialog (the "are you sure you want to close all programs bla bla" one)
[17:58] <joanie> oh nice, screen reader is in the Ubuntu/Unity accessibility menu :-)
[17:59] <charlie-tca> I have issues with those dialogs
[17:59] <charlie-tca> small gains, but important ones, too.
[17:59]  * joanie is setting up a dual-boot system with Unity and Fedora so that she can test everything
[18:00] <joanie> s/Unity/Ubuntu/ I need a nap it seems :-)
[21:59] <TheMuso> Unfortunately lightdm is still lacking some code to actually launch orca. A bug has been filed, but not much has happened with it yet...
[22:00] <TheMuso> Bug 850554
[22:00] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 850554 in unity-greeter "Enabling screen reader and on-screen keyboard options from the a11y indicator do not start the application in question." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850554
[22:02] <charlie-tca> well, that is not the best thing going then :(
[22:03] <maco> crap
[22:03] <maco> TheMuso: lightdm is in what language?
[22:03] <TheMuso> maco: GObject C.
[22:03] <TheMuso> Sorry, the greeter is in vala.
[22:03] <TheMuso> So still GObject based.
[22:04] <maco> hmm ive never done vala, but ive used gobject before...
[22:04] <maco> i can attempt a look tonight
[22:04] <TheMuso> Ok thanks. Bare in mind what I said in that bug.
[22:09] <charlie-tca> And that brings me to a couple of other bugs, that I don't know how important it is to try and get fixed:
[22:09] <charlie-tca> bug 856782
[22:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 856782 in ubiquity "Prepare: Unable to read system requirements with a screen reader" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856782
[22:09] <charlie-tca> bug 856773
[22:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 856773 in ubiquity "Welcome Screen: Cannot reach 'release notes' link with keyboard only." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856773
[22:09] <charlie-tca> I think we can work around the second one by telling users to read the release notes before starting the install
[22:11] <charlie-tca> TheMuso: Can you push bug 781385 through tonight?
[22:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 781385 in ubiquity "Ubiquity GTK should have useful accessible names set in the Glade .ui files instead of using the variable names" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781385
[22:11] <charlie-tca> It will be a lot better if we can get it through the queue
[22:11] <TheMuso> charlie-tca: Its in ubiquity already afaik, i.e in the source tree. It just requires Colin or Evan to upload it.
[22:12] <charlie-tca> Okay, I will ask them tomorrow to do that, then. It could sit through final if we don't insist on it, sometimes.
[22:37] <AlanBell> charlie-tca: I don't consider 856782 or 856773 to be show stoppers
[22:38] <AlanBell> 850554 is more so I think
[22:38] <charlie-tca> Oh, okay. I don't think we have any more besides 850554 that are, then
[22:41] <AlanBell> and for the lightdm bug, launching onboard is probably more critical than orca
[22:41] <AlanBell> assuming a single user system
[22:43] <TheMuso> AlanBell: I don't agree.
[22:43] <TheMuso> We have had accessible login for a while no, it is a regression if we don't have it.
[22:43] <charlie-tca> except if it doesn't autologin, in which case lightdm needs to kick orca
[22:44] <charlie-tca> I think with unity 2d/3d/xfce/gnome, users need to be able to use orca anywhere
[22:45] <TheMuso> charlie-tca: I feel that accessibility should be better next cycle, that is as long as DX/unity 2d devs don't go breaking things on us again.
[22:46] <charlie-tca> I have hopes, too
[22:46] <TheMuso> I will be doing more work to polish accessibility, both in the installer, and on the desktop in general.
[22:46] <AlanBell> TheMuso: yes, I want both orca and onboard to be startable at lightdm and it would be a regression
[22:46] <charlie-tca> If they don't break it completely, we should do well
[22:46] <TheMuso> Agreed.
[22:46] <TheMuso> My focus next cycle will be making things more accessible. I already have many a work item drafted for this.
[22:47] <AlanBell> my point was if you don't have a hard keyboard you are totally stuffed when typing your password
[22:47] <charlie-tca> My goal for accessibility should probably bringing the wiki up to date again
[22:48] <AlanBell> I am hoping that next cycle we spend longer finding and fixing smaller bugs
[22:48] <AlanBell> this time the huge issues have been getting in the way of finding the smaller ones
[22:49] <charlie-tca> Yup, Hopefully, we have accessibility working from at least alpha1, which would give us more time to find and fix things
[22:52] <AlanBell> I think the drums at the start of ubiquity are coming a bit early
[22:52] <AlanBell> if you hit ctrl+s when you hear the drums orca doesn't start
[22:53] <AlanBell> need to wait a few seconds before it is ready to listen to ctrl+s I think
[22:53] <charlie-tca> Something we note if it doesn't get fixed?
[22:54] <AlanBell> could be my machine being slow
[22:55] <TheMuso> AlanBell: Ok, something to experiment with in the P cycle, its just a matter of moving the call to play the sound.
[22:55] <TheMuso> AlanBell: Were you running from USB or CD?
[22:55] <AlanBell> cd that time
[22:55] <TheMuso> Right.
[22:55] <TheMuso> I must admit I have only tested with USB recently.
[22:55] <TheMuso> Hate wasting CD-Rs.
[22:55] <charlie-tca> Might be good to file a bug for it, so we don't lose it
[22:56] <TheMuso> I'll add it to my work items list
[22:56] <AlanBell> I have about a thousand CDRWs
[22:56] <TheMuso> As I am preparing a blueprint.
[22:56] <charlie-tca> Okay
[22:57] <AlanBell> I will try it again a few times, I have only observed it once
[22:57] <charlie-tca> I will too, but not today
[22:58] <AlanBell> maybe twice, I thought I had the wrong keystroke before but maybe it was a timing issue