[00:01] Ouch. [00:39] maco: Thanks for that, I'll probably set things up to rebuild the files instead, and only have a text diff for that change, as it will likely be cleaner. [00:40] ok. i wasnt sure about heavily modifying debian/rules just in ubuntu...seemed like merge hell [00:40] but you have debian access so you can avoid that i guess :P [00:40] Yeah I don't mind doing that. [03:03] ./c [04:34] maco: Thanks for your work on espeak. I merged it into the git vcs branch for Ubuntu, as well as picking some other changes from Debian. I converted it to a patch, since Debian is using quilt v3 format, and I altered debian/rules to rebuild the english dictionary on package build. [05:27] TheMuso: you rock [06:17] * AlanBell hugs maco and TheMuso === API is now known as Guest14461 [09:49] what were you compiling espeak for guys [09:53] Fudge: to add pronunciation hints for "oneiric" and "ocelot" [09:58] nice [10:01] AlanBell is it usable yet, oneiric? [10:03] it is getting there [10:03] there are significant improvements in the ubiquity installer about to arrive (not sure they made todays build) [10:04] there is a problem with unity and it reading out "button" for every app rather than the app name, but I think that will be fixed soon [10:16] gets me why ubuntu has gone down this unity path [10:17] think ill be happy with xfce is more accessible === Guest14461 is now known as apinheiro === API is now known as Guest99583 === Guest99583 is now known as apinheiro [14:54] what other burning issues are there for a11y in oneiric? [14:55] the installer is becoming reasonable [14:55] unity2d and orca are not exactly friends, but I think that might come together before release [14:56] onboard can type into unity 2d but not 3d [14:57] the release can pronounce it's own codename :) [15:03] Pendulum: any other bit issues you know about? [15:08] off the top of my head, no, but I haven't sorted through my bugmail recently ;-) [16:47] charlie-tca: hi [16:47] Hello, AlanBell [16:47] what are the showstopper a11y bugs from your point of view now? [16:48] the installer is getting better [16:48] I have to look again. Onboard is looking good. We still have at-spi crashing upgrades [16:48] onboard works with unity 2d but not 3d (works for applications in 3d, just not the dash) [16:49] We can release note 2d for a11y [16:49] unity 2d and the "everything is called button" bug might get fixed [16:49] That would be nice. [16:50] I will look the list over today and see, but I don't know of any show-stoppers yet. [16:51] against all expectations this might come together as a decent release [16:51] That would be really good [16:54] hopefully the LTS will be testable sooner so we are dealing with small bugs not show stoppers [16:55] we should line up a blog article for release day [17:00] A blog article would be great. Especially with the Ctrl+s working [17:01] But I won't have time to write that one [17:04] AlanBell: do you want to do it or I can? [17:04] we can both do it [17:04] but I need to do chargeable stuff this week :) [17:47] is there a supersecret keystroke to get to the top panel to choose shutdown from the login screen? [17:47] and then to give focus to the resulting window to choose restart/shutdown? [17:54] F10 should get you to and from the panel, arrow keys navigate across [17:55] Oh, login screen... [17:55] Maybe it will work, maybe we have to wait for TheMuso to tell us the real keys [17:57] charlie-tca: thanks lemme try that. Although once I clicked the resulting dialog was still inaccessible [17:57] f10 sweet [17:57] thanks charlie-tca [17:57] you are welcome [17:57] that just leaves the dialog (the "are you sure you want to close all programs bla bla" one) [17:58] oh nice, screen reader is in the Ubuntu/Unity accessibility menu :-) [17:59] I have issues with those dialogs [17:59] small gains, but important ones, too. [17:59] * joanie is setting up a dual-boot system with Unity and Fedora so that she can test everything [18:00] s/Unity/Ubuntu/ I need a nap it seems :-) [21:59] Unfortunately lightdm is still lacking some code to actually launch orca. A bug has been filed, but not much has happened with it yet... [22:00] Bug 850554 [22:00] Launchpad bug 850554 in unity-greeter "Enabling screen reader and on-screen keyboard options from the a11y indicator do not start the application in question." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850554 [22:02] well, that is not the best thing going then :( [22:03] crap [22:03] TheMuso: lightdm is in what language? [22:03] maco: GObject C. [22:03] Sorry, the greeter is in vala. [22:03] So still GObject based. [22:04] hmm ive never done vala, but ive used gobject before... [22:04] i can attempt a look tonight [22:04] Ok thanks. Bare in mind what I said in that bug. [22:09] And that brings me to a couple of other bugs, that I don't know how important it is to try and get fixed: [22:09] bug 856782 [22:09] Launchpad bug 856782 in ubiquity "Prepare: Unable to read system requirements with a screen reader" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856782 [22:09] bug 856773 [22:09] Launchpad bug 856773 in ubiquity "Welcome Screen: Cannot reach 'release notes' link with keyboard only." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856773 [22:09] I think we can work around the second one by telling users to read the release notes before starting the install [22:11] TheMuso: Can you push bug 781385 through tonight? [22:11] Launchpad bug 781385 in ubiquity "Ubiquity GTK should have useful accessible names set in the Glade .ui files instead of using the variable names" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781385 [22:11] It will be a lot better if we can get it through the queue [22:11] charlie-tca: Its in ubiquity already afaik, i.e in the source tree. It just requires Colin or Evan to upload it. [22:12] Okay, I will ask them tomorrow to do that, then. It could sit through final if we don't insist on it, sometimes. [22:37] charlie-tca: I don't consider 856782 or 856773 to be show stoppers [22:38] 850554 is more so I think [22:38] Oh, okay. I don't think we have any more besides 850554 that are, then [22:41] and for the lightdm bug, launching onboard is probably more critical than orca [22:41] assuming a single user system [22:43] AlanBell: I don't agree. [22:43] We have had accessible login for a while no, it is a regression if we don't have it. [22:43] except if it doesn't autologin, in which case lightdm needs to kick orca [22:44] I think with unity 2d/3d/xfce/gnome, users need to be able to use orca anywhere [22:45] charlie-tca: I feel that accessibility should be better next cycle, that is as long as DX/unity 2d devs don't go breaking things on us again. [22:46] I have hopes, too [22:46] I will be doing more work to polish accessibility, both in the installer, and on the desktop in general. [22:46] TheMuso: yes, I want both orca and onboard to be startable at lightdm and it would be a regression [22:46] If they don't break it completely, we should do well [22:46] Agreed. [22:46] My focus next cycle will be making things more accessible. I already have many a work item drafted for this. [22:47] my point was if you don't have a hard keyboard you are totally stuffed when typing your password [22:47] My goal for accessibility should probably bringing the wiki up to date again [22:48] I am hoping that next cycle we spend longer finding and fixing smaller bugs [22:48] this time the huge issues have been getting in the way of finding the smaller ones [22:49] Yup, Hopefully, we have accessibility working from at least alpha1, which would give us more time to find and fix things [22:52] I think the drums at the start of ubiquity are coming a bit early [22:52] if you hit ctrl+s when you hear the drums orca doesn't start [22:53] need to wait a few seconds before it is ready to listen to ctrl+s I think [22:53] Something we note if it doesn't get fixed? [22:54] could be my machine being slow [22:55] AlanBell: Ok, something to experiment with in the P cycle, its just a matter of moving the call to play the sound. [22:55] AlanBell: Were you running from USB or CD? [22:55] cd that time [22:55] Right. [22:55] I must admit I have only tested with USB recently. [22:55] Hate wasting CD-Rs. [22:55] Might be good to file a bug for it, so we don't lose it [22:56] I'll add it to my work items list [22:56] I have about a thousand CDRWs [22:56] As I am preparing a blueprint. [22:56] Okay [22:57] I will try it again a few times, I have only observed it once [22:57] I will too, but not today [22:58] maybe twice, I thought I had the wrong keystroke before but maybe it was a timing issue