[01:10] <hamitron> how does 10.04 run with 1Gb RAM?
[01:20] <ali1234> poorly
[01:31] <hamitron> reckon just X and firefox will run ok?
[01:31] <hamitron> no Gnome and stuff
[01:35] <ali1234> X will run in 32mb
[01:35] <ali1234> i recommend you use 32 bit and compile a kernel with highmem disabled
[01:35] <hamitron> but how much does firefox really need?
[01:36] <ali1234> firefox will adapt it's memory use to slightly more memory than you have
[01:36] <hamitron> haha
[01:36] <hamitron> great
[01:36] <hamitron> :)
[01:37] <ali1234> i stopped noticing memory issues after i upgraded from 4gb to 16gb
[01:38] <hamitron> this is only for testing anyway
[01:38] <ali1234> firefox actually has a piece of code in it that looks like "switch(system_memory) case 128: use x amount for cache; case 256: use y amount;
[01:39] <hamitron> it will be moved to a system with 16Gb later this year
[01:39] <ali1234> luckily they didn't expect anyone to have 16gb, it stops are 4gb i think
[01:39] <hamitron> hha
[01:39] <hamitron> "until next time" ;/
[01:39] <ali1234> yeah
[01:39] <ali1234> kde has a nice crash dumper
[01:40] <ali1234> it installs debug packages for you
[01:40] <ali1234> with apport it won't do it unless you run some obscure command line
[01:40] <ali1234> of course i'd rather not see it at all
[01:41] <ali1234> i wonder if this thing is going to send the report to launchpad or to kde
[01:44] <hamitron> hmmm
[01:44] <hamitron> may try editing browser.cache.disk.capacity too
[02:11] <hamitron> ty for your input ali1234
[02:11] <hamitron> laters o/
[02:11] <ali1234> wow kde just gets sillier
[02:11] <ali1234> now you can move any window to a tab in any other window
[02:12] <hamitron> :|
[02:12] <ali1234> so you can move control panel into a tab in your konsole window
[02:12] <ali1234> of course you can only open ONE control panel so if you actually do this, you'll just lose it forever
[02:12] <ali1234> completely stupid feature
[02:12] <hamitron> doesn't firefox do that?
[02:12] <ali1234> firefox?
[02:12] <ali1234> no
[02:12] <ali1234> you can't put gnome control panel in a firefox tab
[02:13] <hamitron> oh no
[02:13] <hamitron> true
[02:13] <hamitron> :)
[02:13] <hamitron> but can move tabs around groups
[02:13] <ali1234> yes, firefox tabs
[02:14] <ali1234> in kde, every single application is tabbed, and you can move any application into a tab in any other applications window
[02:14] <hamitron> I guess KDE has always been there to "do everything"
[02:14] <hamitron> ;)
[02:14] <ali1234> the thing is kde does not do everything
[02:14] <ali1234> it does a lot of pointless stuff like thi
[02:14] <ali1234> but it doesn't do everything
[02:15] <hamitron> it sure feels like it, when looking through everything to find 1 thing
[02:15] <hamitron> :D
[02:16] <hamitron> but yeh
[02:16] <hamitron> laters o/
[04:14] <ali1234> http://imagebin.org/176517
[04:14] <ali1234> not bad
[04:15] <ali1234> it's a shame that plasma widgets don't fit in with the rest of the system
[04:15] <ali1234> and that they are all so buggy
[06:14] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Video On Dealing With Burnout - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/09/28/video-on-dealing-with-burnout/
[06:55] <AlanBell> good morning, cheer up with a coffee \o/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15059266
[06:56] <MooDoo> yay
[06:56] <AlanBell> if you are an american female nurse /o\
[07:03]  * AlanBell encounters rule 34 when searching for ocelot pictures
[07:21] <daubers> Morning
[07:21] <MooDoo> morning matey
[07:38] <diplo> Morning all
[08:01] <hoover> good morning all
[08:02] <Hippychick> morning
[08:02] <hoover> is there a way to configure vsftpd to produce a short listing by default?
[08:02] <hoover> apparently there's an inbuilt ls command
[08:02] <MartijnVdS> haha ftp :P
[08:02] <hoover> don't laugh... ancient system.
[08:03] <hoover> 8-P
[08:09] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:10] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski
[08:10] <czajkowski> MooDoo: so hows the new edition
[08:10] <MooDoo> czajkowski: still on oz time at the moment :)
[08:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ooh - what did you get MooDoo ?
[08:12] <dogmatic69> o/
[08:12] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: he had a baby
[08:12] <czajkowski> where have you been
[08:12] <MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: girl :)
[08:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: I know that!
[08:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> Duh
[08:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: Congrats.
[08:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> Name?
[08:13] <MooDoo> Rosie Victoria
[08:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh :-)
[08:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> IRC Handle yet?
[08:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> MiniMooDoo
[08:13] <MooDoo> lol
[08:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> CuteMooDoo
[08:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Parenthood is [ahem] interesting.
[08:14] <MooDoo> yeah very :) #1 son is 3 now
[08:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ah OK you are expererienced
[08:15] <Hippychick> hmm, loads of people i know are having babies
[08:15]  * Hippychick gets broody
[08:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> Mine are 7 & 11 now.
[08:15] <MartijnVdS> 7/11
[08:15] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Have you taken them to a 7-eleven? :)
[08:16] <dogmatic69> lol
[08:17] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: got that vinyl cutting working, ditched tux plot and added some plot extension to inkscape, works way better. thanks for the help last night
[08:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> 11 yr old behaves like Kevin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLuEY6jN6gY
[08:17] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: cool
[08:18] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: http://i.imgur.com/zbWPq.jpg
[08:18] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: already pirating trademarked logos I see :P
[08:18] <dogmatic69> well im making a sbk clone :D
[08:19] <dogmatic69> bike will look like this shortly http://s2.visordown.com/uploads/images/large/25351.jpg
[08:19] <dogmatic69> they should be paying me for advertising ;)
[08:19] <MartijnVdS> aww, with training wheels :P
[08:20] <dogmatic69> lol
[08:20] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:20] <dogmatic69> o/ bigcalm
[08:20] <MartijnVdS> \o bc
[08:21] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[08:21] <Myrtti> hello
[08:22] <bigcalm> I'm not actually as awake as my greeting would suggest
[08:22]  * bigcalm hugs Myrtti
[08:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> hello Myrtti - looks like you need coffee ;-) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15059266
[08:22] <Myrtti> I'd rather have tea atm, but there isn't proper tea anywhere in sight
[08:23] <MartijnVdS> "Proper tea management", sounds like an awesome job
[08:23] <Myrtti> spending money on things I have no personal use of in this life is depressing
[08:23] <dogmatic69> Myrtti: what is your idea of 'proper tea'
[08:23] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: :D
[08:23] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: not decaf
[08:24] <Myrtti> there is no decaf tea in Finland
[08:24] <dogmatic69> ah, what is the point of decaf...
[08:24]  * TheOpenSourcerer hates tea.
[08:24] <Myrtti> apart from tisanes
[08:24]  * MartijnVdS has some fresh Darjeeling
[08:24] <dogmatic69> TheOpenSourcerer: what you doing in ubuntu-*uk* then :)
[08:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> I live on coffee.#
[08:24] <bigcalm> You've all put me in the mood for some lapsang souchong. Back in a bit :)
[08:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> moar coffee.
[08:25] <Myrtti> Earl Gray is nice and some fruity teas too, but when I wan't proper tea, I mean proper English proper plain tea. Which doesn't include Earl Gray, tisanes, fruity teas, decaf, rooibos, and especially and specifically NOT Lipton Yellow Label
[08:25] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: with milk?
[08:25] <Myrtti> MartijnVdS: of course.
[08:26] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: Well, I've seen holy wars about that..
[08:27] <dogmatic69> been reading some not so good things about 11.10 and 3.0 kernel. apparently battery life is not important :/
[08:27] <dogmatic69> anyone tried it out on a laptop?
[08:28] <bigcalm> When visiting France, we always take a box of Yorkshire Hard Water tea bags with us
[08:28] <BigRedS> it doesn't seem markedly worse than 2.6.38 to me on mine
[08:29]  * AlanBell has coffee
[08:29] <Myrtti> bigcalm: I should have brought Yorkshire soft with me, in UK it's the hard we use
[08:30] <czajkowski> MORNING LOVELY PEOPLE
[08:30] <BigRedS> argh. she's typing in SQL again
[08:30] <MooDoo> czajkowski: wow your happy today
[08:31]  * Myrtti goes to make some damned coffee
[08:31] <bigcalm> Myrtti: hard water in Shropshire and most places we visit in France. Good to have both just in case though :)
[08:31] <czajkowski> MooDoo: I am you know
[08:31] <czajkowski> today is a great day
[08:31] <bigcalm> \o/
[08:31] <MooDoo> czajkowski: you rock!
[08:32] <czajkowski> I do
[08:32] <czajkowski> I have to admit
[08:32] <bigcalm> Heh
[08:32] <czajkowski> but so do you all
[08:32] <czajkowski> #
[08:32] <bigcalm> Oh my
[08:32] <AlanBell> czajkowski: your briliance is only exceeded by your modesty
[08:33] <MooDoo> if i had a rose, i'd give it to czajkowski , one form of beauty to another :D
[08:33] <bigcalm> Bucket!
[08:33] <bigcalm> I need a bucket!
[08:33] <AlanBell> czajkowski: refuse the rose, until it is out of nappies
[08:34] <MooDoo> hehe we're currently in the "oooo it's rosie and jim" phase with people at the moment, although my son is called Jimmy
[08:34] <Myrtti> bigcalm: Cambridgeshire
[08:35] <bigcalm> :D
[08:36] <gord> rosie and jim were *terrifying*
[08:36] <czajkowski> whats rosie and jim
[08:37] <scoundrel50a> I come across something in 11.10 called Personal File Sharing, I open it up and it says it shares file over the network, but underneath it says 'This feature cannot be enabled because the required packaged are not installed on your system' but it does tell you what packages need to install anyb ody know?
[08:37] <AlanBell> all together now!
[08:37] <gord> czajkowski, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwYP6eesX9E
[08:38] <gord> let their cold dead eyes infest your mind
[08:38] <MooDoo> :)
[08:39] <AlanBell> czajkowski: they are like Tilly Tom and Tiny from tots TV
[08:39]  * AlanBell suspects that won't help much
[08:40] <scoundrel50a> sorry lost connection and didnt realise, does anybody have any ideas?
[08:42] <daubers> scoundrel50a: I think that uses webdav, but don't quote me on that
[08:42] <scoundrel50a> oh, I have no clue about that, ok thank you, will leave that I think
[08:43] <scoundrel50a> 11.10 is getting better, not so buggy,
[08:44] <scoundrel50a> only thing is, in system setting system info, it tells you there under  graphics that Experience says fallback, how do i get around that, it should allow as updates are occuring to change that, my chip should be able to cope with it
[08:45] <AlanBell> scoundrel50a: normally there is a button to install them, it is samba stuff I think
[08:45] <scoundrel50a> no button
[08:46] <daubers> AlanBell: That's something else :)
[08:46] <daubers> AlanBell: You're thinking of when you right click on a folder and goto "sharing options"
[08:47] <AlanBell> yeah, I was
[08:47] <daubers> If you do that, that will use samba and offer to install the relevant packages
[08:47] <scoundrel50a> yeh, I have been doing that, with my files to chare
[08:47] <scoundrel50a> but this something else
[08:47] <scoundrel50a> jpw can I take a picture and add it here
[08:47] <AlanBell> please do, it sounds interesting
[08:47] <scoundrel50a> how
[08:47] <scoundrel50a> do I add the picture here
[08:48] <bigcalm> Myrtti: yay :)
[08:48] <daubers> !pastebin
[08:48] <bigcalm> scoundrel50a: a link to the image is fine in here
[08:48] <bigcalm> scoundrel50a: for multi-line, use a paste bin :)
[08:48] <scoundrel50a> is there an image storage thing I can use, to create a link
[08:49] <oimon> imgur.com or publish a picture via ubuntu one
[08:49] <scoundrel50a> ah, thank you
[08:49] <Myrtti> bigcalm: ♥
[08:49] <scoundrel50a> am taking pic now will get the link up in a couple of secs when I can
[08:50] <bigcalm> Myrtti: congrats to you both :)
[08:51] <Myrtti> and now, with this positive attitude, I think I'm ready to spend money on a headstone.
[08:51] <Myrtti> I've been putting it off for a week.
[08:52] <scoundrel50a> http://imgur.com/gfetB
[08:54] <bigcalm> scoundrel50a: looks like you should file a bug :)
[08:55] <scoundrel50a> ok, will do
[08:56] <scoundrel50a> what about the other problem with system info and my graphics, where it says the Experience is on Fallback, how do I change that
[08:57] <bigcalm> What's your graphics card?
[08:57] <bigcalm> If it's ATI or nVidia, then you can install a 3rd party driver and get wizz bang effects :)
[08:58] <scoundrel50a> I got my laptop from linux emporium with 11.04 and 11.10 oreinstalled, no windows, the card is Mobile Intel® GM45 Express Chipset x86/MMX/SSE2
[08:58] <bigcalm> Right, that's passed my limit of knowledge :)
[08:58] <scoundrel50a> so you dont know that graphics card?
[09:00] <scoundrel50a> would you know how to get out of it being in fallback?
[09:01] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[09:01] <bigcalm> I know about Intel, but I don't know anything more about graphics I'm afraid. I tend to use non-wizzy-bang desktops
[09:01] <Myrtti> that was probably the most painful bill I've ever paid
[09:01] <bigcalm> Myrtti: well done for doing it though
[09:02] <bigcalm> Myrtti: now you can order some tea from the interwebs
[09:02] <Myrtti> I wouldn't mind if I hadn't been saving the money for four years to pay driving school
[09:02] <Myrtti> oh well.
[09:02] <bigcalm> Was there no money left to cater for such things?
[09:03] <scoundrel50a> http://imgur.com/jEsMD
[09:03] <scoundrel50a> ok, thanks anyway
[09:03] <Myrtti> no cash, only assets that we either don't want to or can't easily turn into money
[09:03] <bigcalm> Ah
[09:06] <JamesTait> Good morning all!
[09:11] <HippyChick> hmm, google has detected some unusual traffic from my computer....
[09:12] <gord> i get that every time i use the search function in the online gtk documentation
[09:24] <oimon> can any parents suggest a good device to stop children opening some sliding wardrobe doors?
[09:25] <HippyChick> oimon, what about somthing you normally put on a reptile cage to stop them from opening doors?
[09:25] <HippyChick> not sure if you can get them for wardrobes though...
[09:25] <bigcalm> Place a latch high enough out of reach
[09:26] <drussell> bear trap infront of the doors?
[09:26] <oimon> there's no handles on the doors. they are big floor to ceiling doors on runners
[09:26] <oimon> this is the only thing i've seen so far
[09:26] <oimon> http://www.amazon.co.uk/BabyDan-Sliding-Door-Clip-LARGE/dp/B001DSUVIO
[09:26] <oimon> but would prefer something you can clip onto the runners
[09:27] <bigcalm> oimon: http://static.topclasscarpentry.com/images/thumbnails/category/gold-cabin-hook_300.jpg
[09:27] <bigcalm> Screw it into the doors
[09:27] <oimon> glass doors
[09:29] <oimon> something like this but nicer http://www.yourstyledoors.co.uk/siteimages/10/1/9/101934/531063.jpg
[09:29] <daubers> http://www.imgftw.net/img//504283520.jpg <- Looks like fun
[09:30] <bigcalm> daubers: let us know how you get on
[09:31] <daubers> bigcalm: Unfortunatley my passport is not currently accessible for the last part of the form :(
[09:32] <oimon> you need a passport?
[09:32] <daubers> Some form of government based ID
[09:32]  * oimon doesn't have a passport
[09:33] <HippyChick> hmm, tempted to do that when i get home, need to dig out my passport  anyway
[09:33] <Daviey> daubers: surely you can expect to pay £10?
[09:34] <daubers> Daviey: Thought that was for FOI requests
[09:34] <daubers> (didn't think this was FoI)
[09:35] <Daviey> Nah
[09:36] <Daviey> I assume it's a Subject Access Request
[09:37] <daubers> Daviey: TBH it'd be worth it for this part of the info "knowledge of the logic involved in any automatic processing of data concerning him at least in the case of the automated decisions referred to in Article 15(1);"
[09:37] <daubers> http://www.dataprotection.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=93
[09:37] <gord> who are you really annoying with that though? "facebook" or the poor people that have to sit and do it
[09:37] <Daviey> daubers: .ie ?
[09:39] <daubers> Daviey: They're part of the EU too.....
[09:40] <Daviey> daubers: Hmm, rather than £10 is claims it requires a pot of gold?
[09:40] <daubers> Daviey: To the end of the rainbow!!
[09:41] <popey> Morning all
[09:41] <MooDoo> moring popey
[09:41] <daubers> o/
[09:42] <danfish> morning
[09:42] <selinuxium> MooDoo, Why are you tying popey up to the waters edge?
[09:42] <danfish> oimon: these are good general purpoise locks http://www.amazon.co.uk/BabyDan-8247-98-75-Child-Safety-Multi-Lock/dp/B000MLMGE0/ref=sr_1_5?s=baby&ie=UTF8&qid=1317202874&sr=1-5
[09:42] <selinuxium> Morning popey
[09:42] <MooDoo> selinuxium: badum tish....lol
[09:43] <bigcalm> Hi popey, and what time do you call this?
[09:43] <selinuxium> MooDoo, :) I have to get my humour started.. need more coffee... :)
[09:43] <selinuxium> AlanBell, hey there
[09:44] <HippyChick> good morning popey, selinuxium
[09:44] <selinuxium> Hey  HippyChick, long time no see. :) You good?
[09:45] <AlanBell> o/ selinuxium
[09:45] <HippyChick> yeah, on a train to selby at the moment
[09:45] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:45] <selinuxium> Who is going to the release party then?
[09:46] <selinuxium> HippyChick, I suppose someone has to... :)
[09:46] <HippyChick> yeah, i lost the argument, quite literally
[09:48] <HippyChick> doesnt look like i can go to the release party either :( about time i get home and get a train to london it will be time to go home again
[09:48] <selinuxium> HippyChick, I think there is a Leeds party, might be easier to get to?
[09:49] <HippyChick> if its tonight then yeah, im going back home tonight though, which is maidstone
[09:50] <danfish> A quick question if I may and apologies if the answer is obvious, but a project that claims to be open source but doesn't state what licence and offers no download links on it's website isn't really open source, is it?
[09:51] <danfish> http://openeyes.org.uk <-- this one
[09:51] <gord> can you get a copy of the source code?
[09:52] <shauno> you don't need to have download links to be open source.  you just have to make the source available to people who receive the binaries from you
[09:52] <danfish> gord: by looking through one the pdf's under documentation I found on one page a git repo, but still no licence
[09:53] <gord> shauno, actually no thats gpl
[09:53] <danfish> https://github.com/openeyes/OpenEyes.git
[09:54] <hoover> any vsftpd experts availabler?
[09:54] <gord> "open source" really just means that the source code is open, its viewable
[09:54] <hoover> abler... hehe
[09:54] <hoover> ;-)
[09:54] <davmor2> morning all
[09:54] <daubers> Nice
[09:54]  * davmor2 runs up and hugs czajkowski 
[09:54] <daubers> sat listening to spotify and my laptop suspends
[09:55]  * davmor2 slap MooDoo a high five
[09:55] <davmor2> daubers: running oneiric?
[09:55] <daubers> davmor2: Yup
[09:55] <gord> i'v found that the gnome power control thingy doesn't listen to a word i say recently
[09:55] <davmor2> daubers: yeap gnome's new aggressive suspend system
[09:56] <davmor2> gord: agreed
[09:57]  * daubers sets it to _not_ suspend when on mains
[09:58] <kirrus> Does anyone know of a good book to learn PHP5/MySQL for web-coding? Preferably one that won't cost a bomb? :)
[09:59] <MooDoo> sitepoint ones are ok
[09:59] <MooDoo> not sure about cost as i got given them
[09:59] <bigcalm> kirrus: o'rly do good books on the subject
[10:05] <bigcalm> WordPress debugging can be a chore. A server has been upgraded from php 5.2 to 5.3. This has broken a theme or plugin for one WordPress site on the server (others work). Buggered if I can get it to tell me what's broken
[10:06] <davmor2> kirrus: there was a very good html/php/db book that was on planet ubuntu a why ago I'll see if I can track it down for you
[10:07] <kirrus> Cool! :) I learnt using Larry Ullman's books, but he's got a weird mix of techs in his versions (php5/mysql4, php6/mysql5), and I don't want to subject my friend to that :)
[10:08] <kirrus> bigcalm: turn on debug mode, in wordpress?
[10:08] <bigcalm> kirrus: yep, didn't help :)
[10:09] <bigcalm> I think I've tracked down the plugin at fault
[10:12] <selinuxium> bigcalm, I am putting together my first wordpress site..
[10:12] <bigcalm> selinuxium: creating a theme from scratch?
[10:13] <selinuxium> bigcalm, nah I have one from Graph Paper Press.
[10:16] <selinuxium> bigcalm, this one http://demo.graphpaperpress.com/widescreen/
[10:17] <bigcalm> AlanBell: the venue I suggested for the ubuntu happy hour has closed
[10:18] <bigcalm> Which also means that the Shopshire LUG have to find somewhere else to meet
[10:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> selinuxium: You should use mine ;-) http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/open-sourcerer
[10:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> I must do a new one when I get a mo...
[10:52] <daubers> Question: Does whoever is operating pad.ubuntu-uk.org mind if I use it for non ubuntu-uk related stuffs? (i.e. organising with reading hackspace)
[10:53] <popey> daubers: that would be daviey
[10:53] <popey> daubers: you should install etherpad lite, it's super awesome
[10:53] <popey> it does struggle sometimes
[10:54] <daubers> is it? Has it been ported to 10.04?
[10:55] <diplo> http://mclear.co.uk/2011/08/01/install-etherpad-lite-on-ubuntu/
[10:56] <diplo> I've always used this guys instructions, seems to work well
[10:57] <daubers> Not sure my VPS would cope particularly well with all the other stuff it does too
[10:57]  * daubers ponders cloudy stuffs
[10:58] <oimon> etherpad seems handy
[10:59] <directhex> etherpad lite is featureless
[10:59] <directhex> regular etherpad is INSANE and runs three copies of OOo in the background
[11:00] <AlanBell> or none, if you don't let it
[11:00] <AlanBell> still insane though
[11:00] <directhex> Enterprise(tm) Java
[11:00] <oimon> insane good or insane bad?
[11:00] <AlanBell> oimon: java
[11:00] <directhex> oimon, see above
[11:01] <directhex> oimon, the system requirements cite a gig of ram
[11:01]  * AlanBell gets back to poking at Alfresco
[11:01] <AlanBell> some muppet installed Alfresco, on Windows, with MSSQL
[11:03] <oimon> ah.. "Etherpad Lite is an almost complete rewrite of the original Etherpad software, based on different technical foundations and written by different authors. While the original EtherPad is written in Scala and has quite bigsystem requirements, Etherpad Lite is written in server-side JavaScript using node.js."
[11:03] <daubers> Daviey: ping
[11:04] <popey> daubers: etherpad lite is very lite
[11:04] <oimon> is the pad.ubuntu-uk.org an etherpad or etherpad lite?
[11:04] <popey> i ran it on my microserver
[11:04] <popey> etherpad
[11:04] <AlanBell> as is pad.ubuntu.com
[11:04]  * oimon has resources to burn
[11:05] <AlanBell> but that has been interfered with
[11:05] <oimon> i need to investigate plan B when my new overlords enforce sharepoint
[11:05] <daubers> popey: Will be more of a "Can I use it for such as an interim arrangement until I get back of hols in a few weeks and have time to sort something else" :)
[11:07] <popey> well...
[11:07] <popey> 11:18:18 < pitti> moved our etherpad to pad.ubuntu.com, which is hopefully  more stable
[11:08] <daubers> popey: Which channel was that?
[11:08]  * AlanBell gets a parcel from Hong Kong
[11:10] <popey> #ubuntu-release
[11:10] <daubers> ok
[11:11] <oimon> so if i have spare resources, is etherpad fat preferred over lite?
[11:12] <popey> depends what you want to do with i
[11:12] <popey> *it
[11:13] <popey> if you just want it as a place to edit docus together and then copy/paste out to a real doc then either
[11:13] <dogmatic69> hey popey o/
[11:14] <popey> lo
[11:14]  * dogmatic69 got the vinyl cutter working on ubuntu :)
[11:14] <popey> yay
[11:15] <dogmatic69> had some help from MartijnVdS, but after ubuntu was detecting it and i ditched tuxplot it pretty much works out the box
[11:21] <sagaci> AlanBell, so is pad.ubuntu.com available for general team usage or only via a UDS session?
[11:34] <Laney> w
[11:36] <jpds> OK.
[11:40] <AlanBell> sagaci: as long as you don't get in the way of the UDS pads I don't think anyone cares
[11:41] <sagaci> yeah, thought so
[11:43] <AlanBell> czajkowski: you can learn about the internet! http://www.siliconrepublic.com/new-media/item/23771-1-8m-scheme-to-help-40-000/
[11:53] <czajkowski> heh
[11:54] <dogmatic69> train 40k people at £47 each. sounds like there will be 40k new sys admins soon
[12:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> dogmatic69: nah, 23,000 will be silver surfers (or your mum & dad). Arrrgggghhhh!
[12:00] <dogmatic69> :D
[12:01] <dogmatic69> seems like its the same as putting 1.8m in a hole, adding some petrol and lighting it.
[12:03] <kirrus> Could be worse. You could give it to the banks.
[12:47] <Daviey> daubers: o/
[12:49] <daubers> Daviey: \o/ Mind if I use the pad.ubuntu-uk.org etherpad for some reading hackspace stuff until I can get something else set up?
[12:50] <Daviey> daubers: sure.. it's been a little poorly at times, but i don't mind.
[12:50] <dogmatic69> is that google wave stuff?
[12:50] <daubers> Daviey: Poorly how? Running out of capacity? Or just etherpad crazyness creaking at it's hinges?
[12:51] <Daviey> daubers: I think it just needs some housekeeping, tweaking
[12:52] <daubers> Ah, okies :)
[12:58] <ali1234> hmmmmmmmm smeone nicked one of my customer's domain names :(
[12:59] <Azelphur> :(
[12:59] <MooDoo> boooo  was it expired?
[12:59] <ali1234> no
[12:59] <Azelphur> how'd they nick it?
[12:59] <MooDoo> com/net/orf?
[12:59] <ali1234> they must have rang up 1and1, done a bit of identity theft, and just asked them to transfer it
[12:59] <ali1234> co.uk
[12:59] <Azelphur> nice
[12:59] <MooDoo> contact nominet, they can get it back
[13:00] <ali1234> the perp has ut his hotmail.co.uk address on the squatting page he's put up
[13:00] <MooDoo> nominet should be able to get it back for them no probs
[13:00] <ali1234> the registrar is still 1and1
[13:00] <ali1234> they've just updated the dns to point to another provider
[13:00] <ali1234> so looks like we're still in control and can just cahnge it back
[13:00] <ali1234> exept 1and1 control panel is giving 500 error
[13:01] <MooDoo> lol ah good old 1and1
[13:01] <dogmatic69> is there a way to disable the numberpad moving the mouse? i keep turning it off and it keep turning back on some how
[13:01] <Azelphur> xD
[13:01] <dogmatic69> ali1234: set up a box on aws and DDos him till he gives it back
[13:02] <MooDoo> dogmatic69: he's not actually got it, just made 1and1 change the nameservers
[13:02] <dogmatic69> lol
[13:02] <dogmatic69> that is lame
[13:02] <MooDoo> i keep getting letters from the domain registrar of america telling me my domains are about to expire :)
[13:03] <dogmatic69> MooDoo: quick, send your details so they dont
[13:03] <MooDoo> dogmatic69: they are on my todo list, i'm just sending people from nigeria my bank details at the moment
[13:04] <dogmatic69> ah, nice. i sent mine off last week. waiting to hear back now
[13:04] <kirrus> We get customers calling up all confused about those DRoA letters :9
[13:04] <kirrus> *:(
[13:04] <diplo> So do we
[13:04] <diplo> Annyoing isn't it
[13:05] <MooDoo> letter ---> bin :)
[13:05] <kirrus> Quite. I got one in the post yesterday as well. Letter -> shredder ;)
[13:06] <daubers> Meh, it's cheaper than loo paper
[13:07]  * hamitron 's arse has standards
[13:07] <hamitron> ;/
[13:08] <ali1234> well nwow i'm confused
[13:08] <bigcalm> :|
[13:08] <ali1234> according to one and one the dns records can only be changed by logging into the control panel
[13:09] <ali1234> nobody knows the control panel password but me
[13:09] <ali1234> it's a string of random letters and numbers
[13:10] <oimon> does anyone have a "magic trackpad"?
[13:11] <kirrus> ali1234: do they log logins? can they tell when the last 5 logins were, and what IPs were they from?
[13:11] <popey> oimon: i do
[13:11] <ali1234> dunno, didn't ask, not gonna help
[13:11] <oimon> popey: replaces your mouse for your desktop pc right?
[13:11] <popey> thats the idea
[13:11] <oimon> how's it work for you?
[13:11] <popey> s/desktop//g
[13:12] <popey> i dont use it that often, it's not on my pc
[13:12] <oimon> not really a game changer then
[13:13] <popey> dunno how you make the leap from "I dont use it" to "not a game changer"
[13:15] <BigRedS> well, if it was a game changer, presumably you'd use it?
[13:15] <BigRedS> presuming it changed it for something good
[13:16] <popey> its not on my pc
[13:16] <popey> if it was my pc I would us eit
[13:16] <popey> *use it
[13:17] <oimon> i was thinking of treating my team to some small IT purchase, thuoght maybe magic trackpads might be nice
[13:19]  * popey sighs at ubuntu-users
[13:19]  * bigcalm now has a blue dragon that eyes you up as you climb the stairs
[13:23] <oimon> mailing lists seem to have more persistent trolls camping under the bridge than most forms of communication
[13:24] <oimon> but they are easy to spot because of their sigs :)
[13:25] <czajkowski> I have to say
[13:26] <czajkowski> I rock
[13:26] <czajkowski> :D
[13:26]  * czajkowski does a little dance and offers sweets all around 
[13:26] <czajkowski> ps you have to come here for the sweets
[13:26]  * MooDoo holds up a banner "we love czajkowski!"
[13:27] <popey> chrisccoulson: you planning on building firefox 7 for 11.10 in the mozilla ppa?
[13:27] <popey> er
[13:27] <popey> 11.04
[13:27] <ali1234> the irony is that the squatting/holding page is actually better than the real one
[13:28] <czajkowski> MooDoo: aww wuv you too
[13:28] <dogmatic69> ali1234: whats the domain?
[13:28] <ali1234> don't want to say :)
[13:28] <dogmatic69> k
[13:28] <popey> goat-lovers.co.uk
[13:28] <ali1234> specially after i just slated it
[13:28]  * BigRedS apologises to popey 
[13:29] <popey> no need
[13:29]  * dogmatic69 does not believe popey 
[13:29] <popey> hmm?
[13:29] <ali1234> well, dns is reset now anyway
[13:29] <dogmatic69> 24h wait
[13:29] <ali1234> i don't understand how these guys got the control panel password though
[13:29] <ali1234> yeah 24h
[13:30] <popey> dogmatic69: what you on about?
[13:30] <ali1234> either they must have compromised my gmail, or my desktop machine
[13:30] <dogmatic69> ali1234: hack email server, add mail forwarder, wait
[13:30] <popey> or there is a hole in the panel?
[13:30] <ali1234> 1and1's panel you mean
[13:31] <popey> yeah
[13:31] <dogmatic69> ali1234: ive read about gmail. some js that steals a session, adds the forwarder and done
[13:31] <ali1234> maybe
[13:31] <ali1234> the person who did it had to ring up 1and1 to get instructions on how to do it
[13:31] <dogmatic69> popey: i asked ali1234 what the site was and you said goat-lovers.co.uk :D
[13:31] <popey> ah
[13:31] <popey> sorry
[13:31] <ali1234> so they're not master hackers
[13:32] <dogmatic69> ali1234: it is bad that 1and1 did that, social engineering and all
[13:32] <ali1234> well this is the problem
[13:32] <ali1234> i dunno if it is a social engineering hack, or theyve hacked my email or desktop machine
[13:32] <ali1234> i find it unlikely that they have hacked my desktop
[13:32] <dogmatic69> if it was social engineering, they are 1) quite good or 2) 1and1 is quite lame
[13:33] <ali1234> well we tested them, rang up and tried to get the password
[13:33] <ali1234> they rfused, and sent it by email to me
[13:33] <ali1234> which leaves email or desktop hacking
[13:33] <dogmatic69> after you told them about this?
[13:33] <dogmatic69> maybe more on the lookout
[13:33] <ali1234> after, but it was a different call
[13:33] <ali1234> perhaps
[13:34] <ali1234> one other thing
[13:34] <ali1234> iknow 1and1 can read your password for control panel
[13:34] <dogmatic69> could have been an internal email 'dont fing do that again'
[13:34] <hamitron> or maybe just a member of staff not following procedure
[13:34] <ali1234> actually maybe not
[13:34] <ali1234> maybe they just log in to the control panel as you to test it :)
[13:34] <dogmatic69> hmmm, if they can read it its not hashed and could be hacked
[13:34] <hamitron> :/
[13:34] <ali1234> yeah maybe this guy is a real thicko and has no idea, and just bugged and bugged them until they told him exactly what to do
[13:34] <dogmatic69> something like a sql injection and everything is toast
[13:34] <ali1234> maybe it's accidental and he didn't even realise he used the wrong domain
[13:35] <ali1234> don't think they can read it
[13:35] <ali1234> the sometimes ask for control panel login for security
[13:35] <ali1234> but they could test that without knowing it
[13:35] <dogmatic69> that sounds legit, some client that does not know what a mouse is calls and asks to move a domain, they click the wrong one
[13:35] <hamitron> I better get some work done
[13:35] <hamitron> gl ali1234
[13:35] <hamitron> :)
[13:35] <ali1234> 1and1 control panel was down today when i tried to log in
[13:36] <ali1234> maybe 1and1 were hacked properly andlost all the customer stuff
[13:36] <ali1234> and just haven't said anything yet
[13:37] <ali1234> lol
[13:37] <ali1234> this guy has the same domain but with an extra "s"
[13:38] <oimon> ilikesheep.com and ilikesheeps.com ...easy mistake to make
[13:38] <ali1234> yeah
[13:39] <diplo> ali1234, I read earlier that 1and1 had a huge failure ( hardware ) yesterday/day before
[13:39] <ali1234> yesterday/day before is when it happened
[13:39] <diplo> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/26/1and1_server_outage/
[13:39] <oimon> Registrant:   I Like Sheep Enterprises
[13:39] <ali1234> hardware failure = "we set fire to the servers to destroy the evidence of the massive security intrusion"?
[13:39] <diplo> :p
[13:40] <ali1234> maybe
[13:40] <ali1234> maybe while the systems were down, tech support was a bit confused, and more likely to fall for the social engineering/generally make stupid mistakes
[13:40] <ali1234> this whole thing looks a bit like a misunderstanding between similar domain names
[13:40] <ali1234> you also log into 1and1 with domain name as user name
[13:41] <ali1234> so this guy probably typod and then rang up customer support when his password didn't work
[13:41] <ali1234> and due to the major problems, they couldn't sort it out properly
[13:41] <oimon> using the premise that any good 1st line support people are usually promoted...
[13:41] <ali1234> so they were just like "hmm, ok here's you password reset"
[13:41] <oimon> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/09/28/1223250/Intel-Drops-MeeGo
[13:42] <ali1234> yes its all about the tizer now
[13:42] <oimon> you can tell it's tizen with your eyes shut
[13:43] <oimon> it's bad for chip makers to have an OS anyway
[13:44] <ali1234> all the jokes on that slashdot story were made in #meego yesterday :)
[13:44] <ali1234> mostly by me
[13:44] <oimon> i don't read comment on slashdot until the story is a day old...up.downvoting weeds out the crap
[13:46]  * oimon refills his pez dispenser
[13:50] <popey> \o/ pez
[13:51] <davmor2> popey: depends on the pez
[13:51] <oimon> davmor2: flavour or dispenser?
[13:51]  * oimon is eating strawberry from a wall-e dispenser
[13:51] <diplo> Don't even know what pez is :P
[13:51] <davmor2> oimon: dispenser
[13:51] <popey> plastic box with a head on it
[13:52] <oimon> i'd prefer a chewbacca dispenser
[13:52] <popey> pivot head, sweet pops out
[13:52] <diplo> ah kids thinhs ?
[13:52] <popey> no!
[13:52] <diplo> things*
[13:52] <popey> :D
[13:52] <oimon> diplo: no, adults things that kids may use if allowed :)
[13:52] <bigcalm> davmor2: when will you know if Thursday next week is going ahead or not?
[13:52] <diplo> heh I have a few of them hanging about from when the kids are round
[13:52] <bigcalm> I'll need to inform my boss of my travel plans
[13:52] <davmor2> bigcalm: any minute
[13:52] <bigcalm> Cool
[13:59] <davmor2> bigcalm: So I think it's safe to assume it's on unless told otherwise,  we need to double check everything will be in place other than that we are ready to rock and roll :)
[13:59] <bigcalm> Sweet
[13:59] <bigcalm> How many peeps are turning up?
[14:02] <bigcalm> And which bit of the place will I need to go to? You're welcome to inform me closer to the time :)
[14:03] <popey> details details
[14:03] <popey> you worry too much
[14:03] <bigcalm> Sometimes
[14:03] <popey> (c) Daviey
[14:04] <bigcalm> I worry less during my own time. But if I'm on company time, I need to plan
[14:04] <bigcalm> Due to the joys of skype numbers, it's quite likely that I'll be taking calls
[14:05] <popey> i need to test skype on my phone
[14:05] <bigcalm> (as long as the wifi works) :)
[14:05] <AlanBell> popey: android video skype?
[14:06] <popey> audio
[14:06] <popey> but iphone
[14:06] <popey> hahah
[14:06]  * popey clicks "decline"
[14:06] <popey> signed in on pc, need to sign in on phone
[14:07] <popey> doesnt seem to want to connect over the proxy here
[14:07] <popey> which is annoying
[14:07] <bigcalm> Surprised?
[14:08] <AlanBell> skype normally laughs in the face of proxys
[14:09]  * bigcalm watches the yummy mummies walk past the house having collected their little darlings from primary school. Hooray for fine weather :)
[14:10] <popey> skype works fine on my pc via the exact same proxy
[14:11] <popey> http://forum.skype.com/index.php?showtopic=341981&st=40
[14:11] <popey> seems its well known broken
[14:11] <popey> bum
[14:12] <AlanBell> turn off wifi and use the cell connection
[14:12] <dogmatic69> nothing new then, skypes always broken
[14:13] <popey> rubbish reception in this building
[14:13] <popey> will have to wander outside
[14:14] <Azelphur> popey: did you get my message the other day about GameQ? :)
[14:14] <popey> yes
[14:14]  * AlanBell gets ready to press "decline"
[14:14] <Azelphur> cool :p
[14:14] <popey> ooo it says online
[14:16]  * popey calls AlanBell 
[14:17]  * TheOpenSourcerer notes popey keeps "wandering outside" to make calls. Enjoying the fine weather then popey?
[14:17] <popey> pub lunch ☺
[14:17] <popey> crabbies is perfick in this weather
[14:17] <popey> "call failed"
[14:19] <davmor2> bigcalm: sorry all hell broke out at least 4 if I can get some more then extras
[14:20] <bigcalm> No worries :)
[14:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> sheesh: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsofts-samsung-android-patent-troll-win/9634
[14:32] <chrisccoulson> popey - it will be shipped in natty-security at some point
[14:34] <reaper4334> anyone know of a ubuntu-specific guide for making a custom boot splash for plymouth? I found a few pages but not a ubuntu specific one
[14:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> reaper4334: IIRC I think directhex did one of these...
[14:36] <directhex> nah, mine was for grub
[14:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> bah - sorry
[14:41] <reaper4334> shame :( lol
[15:14] <popey> thanks chrisccoulson
[15:34] <selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, Utterly dumbfounded by the Microsoft Patent trolling... Worst thing is the more companies that accept this, this more flaky Linux looks... :(
[15:43] <ali1234> linux already looks incredibly flaky
[15:43] <ali1234> thanks to intel and LF
[16:00] <DJones> The Kindle Fire looks to be an interesting price at £130, although I'd be a wary of how much its locked down to Amazon software
[16:01] <popey> yeah, i expect people will start hacking it quickly
[16:01] <popey> to get stock android on it
[16:02] <popey> probably come with an AUP that says you cant :D
[16:02] <DJones> Heh, if stock android can be installed, must admit I'll be tempted by one
[16:02] <ali1234> kindle fire?
[16:02] <ali1234> is that their new tablet?
[16:02] <DJones> or at least have access to the android market rather than just the amazon market place
[16:02] <DJones> ali1234: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15096655
[16:03] <ali1234> it's gonna suck you know that right?
[16:03] <popey> amazon.com
[16:03] <DJones> Halfway between an ebook reader & a tablet
[16:03] <popey> has the full line up
[16:03] <ali1234> how is it half way?
[16:03] <popey> smaller than an ipad
[16:03] <ali1234> in terms of size?
[16:03] <popey> yeah
[16:04] <popey> 8 hours battery (claimed)
[16:04] <popey> (wifi off)
[16:04] <ali1234> that's awful
[16:04] <popey> yeah, not great.
[16:04] <DJones> ali1234: A heavily customised version of android and probably more locked down to amazon apps
[16:04] <ali1234> i would much rather have a kindle
[16:04] <ali1234> DJones: yeah and it will have crap hardware specs, no more than you need to render an ebook
[16:05] <ali1234> and due to that it will probably be using some cheap and cheerful chinese soc
[16:05] <ali1234> that has no drivers
[16:05] <popey> the specs dont look bad
[16:05] <popey> it's a blackberry play AIUI
[16:05] <popey> qualcom used that as the base fror it
[16:05] <popey> *for
[16:05] <popey> not qualcom
[16:05] <popey> Quanta
[16:05] <ali1234> never heard of them...
[16:06] <popey> far eastern company that make most laptops
[16:06] <DJones> Dual core processor, TI OMAP4 (if that means anything)
[16:06] <ali1234> anyway i'd rather have a kindle even though they crash all the time
[16:06] <daubers> New kindle is now available on the uk site. Quite tempting at £89
[16:06] <DJones> New cheaper kindles seem good value
[16:06] <ali1234> OMAP4? that's actually not too bad
[16:06] <popey> Quanta made the OLPC
[16:06] <ali1234> bit slow but all open drivers except for the 3d stuff
[16:12] <HippyChick> trains take forever *groan*
[16:16] <Laney> forever, that's a long time
[16:18] <gord> almost as long as the week after next
[16:20] <HippyChick> well ive been sat here since about 4
[16:20] <HippyChick> train comes at 5.43
[16:24] <brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
[16:26] <HippyChick> hello brobostigon
[16:26] <brobostigon> helo HippyChick
[16:32] <HippyChick> hmm, ive jsut realised ive left my coat in the shop i was working at
[16:32] <HippyChick> bugger
[16:33] <popey> oops
[16:33] <MartijnVdS> Ooh.. wonder I got home
[16:33] <MartijnVdS> they found some WW2 bomb near the train station
[16:33] <gord> huh, the new amazon tablet thing is fairly cheep
[16:34] <hamitron> gord, how much?
[16:34] <MartijnVdS> £80ish?
[16:34] <hamitron> no way
[16:34] <popey> 199 USD
[16:34] <hamitron> ;/
[16:34] <MartijnVdS> oh wait that's the new cheapest Kindle
[16:34] <popey> yes
[16:34] <gord> its not really a kindle
[16:34] <gord> they are just using the name
[16:34] <gord> its an android tablet
[16:34] <HippyChick> MartijnVdS: where abouts is that
[16:34]  * HippyChick is waiting for train
[16:35] <popey> see amazon.com
[16:35] <popey> not .co.uk
[16:35] <MartijnVdS> HippyChick: Netherlands/Utrecht :)
[16:35] <popey> its on the front page
[16:35]  * brobostigon quantum teleports the train to HippyChick 
[16:35] <HippyChick> MartijnVdS: oh goodie wont effect me then :)
[16:36] <HippyChick> brobostigon: thanks, can you now teleport it home with me in it?
[16:36] <HippyChick> :P
[16:36] <gord> all i want is a colour e-ink device really
[16:36] <brobostigon> HippyChick: lets leave that to quantum mechanical uncertainty.
[16:38] <HazRPG> ooo new gingerbread update?
[16:38] <HippyChick> brobostigon: ho-hum guess i will have to be patient and wait
[16:38] <Laney> all i want is to not get screwed on every ebook purchase
[16:38] <AlanBell> you can get home at an unknown speed, or go at a speed you want to an unknown location
[16:38] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I got 2.3.6 on my N1 earlier this week
[16:38] <brobostigon> HippyChick: that us uncertainty, yes. sorry.
[16:38] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I only just got it last night it seems
[16:39] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :(
[16:39] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=557 ;)
[16:39] <brobostigon> AlanBell: you study quantum mechanics?
[16:39] <HippyChick> i've never been too sure about e-books and e-readers
[16:39]  * hamitron hates them
[16:40] <popey> mmmm fondleslabs
[16:40] <hamitron> I like trees, so buy books to have them closer to me
[16:40] <AlanBell> brobostigon: I dabble, but only popular science level
[16:40] <hamitron> ;)
[16:40] <popey> what about unpopular science?
[16:40] <HippyChick> hamitron: why not just buy trees? or are books the portable edition?
[16:41] <AlanBell> popey: that is what "boffins" do
[16:41] <brobostigon> AlanBell: ah, :). my specialism is time dilation, hobby only.
[16:41] <hamitron> HippyChick, I have a nice collection of alive tree too
[16:41] <hamitron> :)
[16:41] <gord> i mostly use my kindle for flights and monthly magazine subscriptions
[16:41] <HippyChick> wahoo \o/ train is delayed :(
[16:42]  * brobostigon gets HippyChick a gin and tonic to make it more pleasant.
[16:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> My son asked me yesterday - At absolute zero does time stop too?
[16:42] <brobostigon> lol
[16:42] <hamitron> to me, if I used ebooks, I wouldn't have bookshelves around the house.... which are a nice feature
[16:42]  * HippyChick is thinking she just needs the gin
[16:42] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.sixtysymbols.com/ -- ask a scientist :)
[16:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> My answer was probably.
[16:42] <popey> AlanBell: The key question. Do you have a lab-coat?
[16:42]  * AlanBell thinks 20,000,000 rows in a MSSQL table is a sign of something not quite right going on.
[16:43] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: good question!
[16:43] <popey> hah
[16:43]  * jacobw agrees with AlanBell 
[16:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> That's what I said popey
[16:43] <popey> nah
[16:43] <popey> thats "a start" in SAP terms
[16:43] <brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: psace-time only gets bent by speed and gravity, so, the answer is no.
[16:43] <hamitron> bbl, deliveries
[16:43] <brobostigon> space-time*
[16:43] <popey> brobostigon: do you know of any clocks that work at absolute zero?
[16:44] <AlanBell> popey: yeah, this is for a little Alfresco system running an intranet of maybe 1500 pages for 50 users
[16:44] <brobostigon> popey: good question.
[16:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yes, but *nothing* moves at absolute zero. That is what it means absence of any movement at all by anything.
[16:44] <popey> AlanBell: is it the table containing the list of people who hate the product?
[16:44] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4sOfGKEaxs
[16:44] <popey> much as this conversation is entertaining.. I'm going home :D
[16:45]  * MartijnVdS waves at popey 
[16:45] <brobostigon> time is theory stops, within infinate speed and gravity, endof;
[16:45] <brobostigon> in*
[16:45] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: black hole! ;)
[16:45] <HippyChick> popey: i'd love to be going home!
[16:45] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good example, yes, :)
[16:45] <popey> awww
[16:45] <popey> HippyChick: shall i wait at my desk till your train comes?
[16:46] <HippyChick> popey: no its fine, it should be here in a minute
[16:46]  * AlanBell would like to go to the restaurant at the end of the universe
[16:46] <HippyChick> im just having a bad day
[16:46] <brobostigon> brb ,need beer, anyone else want one?
[16:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> yes please brobostigon
[16:47] <brobostigon> one minute.
[16:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> Old Hookey if you have it
[16:48] <HippyChick> train \o/
[16:48] <MartijnVdS> *\o/*
[16:48] <popey> yay
[16:48] <popey> I can go home now!
[16:48] <HippyChick> lol
[16:48] <HippyChick> i wont get home until 9.30 though
[16:48] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgyp94TZdqQ&NR=1 as well (hm, I think I may be confusing Alans)
[16:52]  * brobostigon scp's TheOpenSourcerer some blacksheep.
[16:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> ty brobostigon
[16:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
[16:53] <brobostigon> TheOpenSourcerer: :)
[16:53] <MartijnVdS> Today in Geek History: Star Trek: The Next Generation 1st airs in 1987. Its 178 eps won 18 Emmys, 2 Hugos, 1 Peabody, & tea, Earl Grey, hot.
[16:53] <jacobw> hmm blacksheep
[16:54] <brobostigon> old perculier,
[16:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hah: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2042703/The-Show-Bar-Warringtons-2-Bob-Tuesday-revellers-pass-gutter.html
[16:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> I used to work for a firm in Warrington. Was a bit of a dump back then (mid - late 1980s).
[16:57]  * brobostigon makes agreeable noises.
[16:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> Mind you. 20p a pint is rather attractive. More than the local women. ;-)
[16:57] <RaycisCharles> Amstrad?
[16:57] <RaycisCharles> TheOpenSourcerer = Alan Sugar's beard
[16:57] <directhex> urgh i have a headache
[16:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm off to cook dinner. laterz all.
[16:58] <brobostigon> o/
[16:58] <HippyChick> mmmm food
[16:58]  * HippyChick is happy that 11.10 will fix her sd card
[16:58] <HippyChick> win \o/
[17:04] <jacobw> how do you know?
[17:05] <HippyChick> oly already updated to it and it fixed it on his
[17:05] <HippyChick> so unless they do somthing to break  it in the next couple of weeks....
[17:07] <gord> well, final freeze is tomorrow
[17:10] <Daviey> freeze smeaze.
[17:41] <AlanBell> does apport get turned off at final freeze?
[17:43] <davmor2> gord: I no longer believe the word freeze applies to any ubuntu project :P
[17:49] <Daviey> AlanBell: I don't believe anybody has done the upload yet.. but it will be done soon.  kerneloops has already been disabled.
[17:50] <Daviey> ah, the upload hasn't been accepted yet
[17:57] <jacobw> right, i have big question.
[17:57] <jacobw> i've never seen star trek before, i want to watch it
[17:57] <jacobw> where do i start?
[17:58] <AlanBell> jacobw: start with one of the films
[17:58] <brobostigon> definatly, some of the shakepearian episodes within The next generation, with patrick stewert.
[17:58] <jacobw> i have in fact seen the jj abrahams film
[17:58] <brobostigon> :'(
[17:59] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: heh yeah I do go on there from time to time :P
[17:59] <brobostigon> that is no star trek film.
[17:59] <brobostigon> ST 11, sucks balls,
[17:59] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: hm?
[17:59] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: xda site link you sent to N1 section ^_^
[18:00] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: sorry, was on an hour long phone call with my dad ^_^
[18:00] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ah :)
[18:00] <HippyChick> which one is 11?
[18:00] <MartijnVdS> HippyChick: Star Trek 11? The newest one :)
[18:00] <MartijnVdS> HippyChick: with all the hip young actors
[18:00] <MartijnVdS> and loads of lens flare :)
[18:00] <brobostigon> jacobw: a good started is, voyage home, and first contactm is we are talking about films as AlanBell suggested,
[18:01] <HazRPG> heh yeah was just about to say that :P, MartijnVdS beat me to :P
[18:01] <HippyChick> ooh withh the hot guy from heroes in?
[18:01] <AlanBell> first contact, then you can watch the Enterprise series
[18:01]  * HippyChick is currently watching enterprise
[18:01] <HazRPG> Enterprise \o/
[18:01] <brobostigon> continuity, :'(
[18:01] <HazRPG> recently watched Star Wars...
[18:01]  * brobostigon kicks enterprise up the bacside.
[18:01] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: HEATHEN!
[18:01] <jacobw> i haven't seen star wars either
[18:02] <AlanBell> then some original series stuff with kirk and spock
[18:02] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: (I have the blurays ;))
[18:02] <HazRPG> people have hyped that film up to me for years... and well... I was totally unimpressed :/
[18:02] <HazRPG> not the graphics, or anything like that... just the general story... totally unimpressed
[18:02] <brobostigon> HazRPG: agreed, 11 was crap.
[18:02] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: If you like scifi, watch Moon
[18:02] <AlanBell> then you can read porny kirk/spock fanfiction :)
[18:02] <ali1234> star wars is not really sci fi
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: close enough
[18:03] <HazRPG> ali1234: heh
[18:03] <ali1234> not really
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's on one end of the spectrum of scifi :)
[18:03] <jacobw> ok, so i should go 1996 first contact then 2001-2005 enterprise?
[18:03] <ali1234> it just happens to be set in space
[18:03] <AlanBell> ali1234: it is stories, set in a sci fi world
[18:03] <ali1234> *story
[18:03] <HazRPG> people have nagged me to watch Star Wars for years... and well, I didn't find it that interesting :/
[18:03] <ali1234> it's basically a revenge western
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: you're confusing "scifi" with "hard scifi"
[18:03] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I shall have to check that out :)
[18:03] <brobostigon> jacobw: no, dont watch enterprise, continuitly, it isnt accurate.
[18:03] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Have you seen Eureka!? :o
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MohsScaleOfScienceFictionHardness
[18:04] <jacobw> i think i should watch everything in chronological order
[18:04] <HazRPG> jacobw: :o you've not seen startrek!?
[18:04] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: 4-5-6-1-2-3  you mean?
[18:04] <HazRPG> I use to watch it religiously as a kid
[18:04] <brobostigon> jacobw: start with the nimoy films, and then first contact,
[18:05] <brobostigon> jacobw: ie, 2/3/4.
[18:05] <jacobw> MartijnVdS: i mean the order in which they were made
[18:06] <brobostigon> tOS/TNG/DS9/VOY
[18:06] <ali1234> star trek is sci fi. but not the films
[18:06] <jacobw> brobostigon: ok, the motion picture, ii, iii, iv, v, vi, first contact?
[18:06]  * AlanBell likes the one with the whales
[18:06] <brobostigon> jacobw: forget the motion picture, it is faul.
[18:07] <brobostigon> AlanBell: voyage home, :)
[18:07] <AlanBell> transparent aluminium \o/
[18:07] <brobostigon> :)
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "Star Trek IV: Free Willy"?
[18:08] <ali1234> that whole "good/bad" thing is star trek movies is a lie. they're all bad
[18:08]  * brobostigon hangs out in #memory-alpha, and edits said wiki, so if very trek nerdy.
[18:08] <ali1234> brobostigon: have you tried 20q star trek edition? it's amazing :)
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> Oh don't forget to watch Galaxy Quest
[18:09] <brobostigon> ali1234: heard of, yes. tried, no.
[18:09] <AlanBell> ali1234: no, *this* is bad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICbc8DpcX3w
[18:10] <ali1234> shatner should just give it up and sing
[18:10] <AlanBell> so bad that firefox just committed suicide whilst playing it
[18:11] <ali1234> they could just autotune it
[18:12] <ali1234> also this is far worse http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKKpPFTTROU
[18:13]  * HippyChick dares not to click on links whilst on the train
[18:14] <ali1234> it gets really bad at about 3:30
[18:14] <jacobw> you shouldn't stream on train wifi
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: they should just improve train wifi then :P
[18:15] <HippyChick> im on dongle not train wifi
[18:16]  * jacobw upgrades to oneiric
[18:20] <HippyChick> im upgrading at the weekend when the internet is apparently classed as off peak and i can download as much as i want without repocussions
[18:23] <smittix> Does anyone have any idea what time AMD is supposed to release their 11.9 catalyst driver?
[18:24] <jacobw> when AMD release their 11.9 catalyst driver ;)
[18:24] <MartijnVdS> they have one more day.. :)
[18:25] <jacobw> ha
[18:25] <smittix> Was going off the anouncement that it would be here today. Windows version has been posted but not the linux version.
[18:25] <smittix> jacobw: Really? I should have known.
[18:52] <AlanBell> 22197100 rows transferred \o/
[18:54] <Danawar2> Hey does any one know a guide i can follow that will allow me to build a simple website that has a database sat in the background?
[18:55] <Azelphur> Danawar2: "sat in the background" ?
[18:56] <Azelphur> Do you want a LAMP setup? (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP)
[18:57] <Danawar2> Yee i could do a lamp set-up I forgot there are many guides for that
[18:58] <Danawar2> When i mean sat in background i just mean so i can query it.
[18:58] <Azelphur> sudo apt-get install tasksel && sudo tasksel install lamp-server
[18:58] <Azelphur> ^ Magical superguide that does it all for you
[18:58] <Danawar2> Never heard of tasksel
[18:59] <Danawar2> I shall have a look at it now thanks!
[18:59] <Azelphur> !tasksel | Danawar2
[18:59] <Azelphur> :)
[19:00] <Danawar2> :) Do you workl yet azelphur?
[19:00] <Azelphur> Yep
[19:00] <Azelphur> at least sort of, on and off \o/
[19:02] <ali1234> why tasksel? what's wrong with metapackages??
[19:02] <Azelphur> ali1234: ubuntu wiki says tasksel
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: namespace pollution -- tasks use their own namespace afaik
[19:15] <Hippychick> evening
[19:16]  * Hippychick is bored of being on train now :(
[19:19] <bigcalm> Ello Hippychick
[19:19] <bigcalm> Play minecraft?
[19:20] <Hippychick> hmm whats minecraft?
[19:21] <bigcalm> :O
[19:21] <bigcalm> !minecraft
[19:21] <bigcalm> Shame
[19:21] <Hippychick> lol
[19:21] <smittix> yeah, bigcalm. What is minecraft?
[19:22] <bigcalm> Minecraft is a wonderful game where allows you to do pretty much anything
[19:22] <smittix> Is it that thing that steals hours from the day and makes you want to smack your monitor when you lose 40 Diamonds in a stupid sized cavern?
[19:22] <bigcalm> 40?
[19:22] <bigcalm> Lucky bugger
[19:22] <smittix> Throughout the day I have lost over 200 Iron Ore and i dread to think how much Gold and Diamonds.
[19:23] <bigcalm> From wikipedia: Minecraft is a sandbox game which allows players to build constructions out of textured cubes in a 3D world.
[19:23] <smittix> Should of took a chest with me I suppose
[19:23] <gord> its basically multi-player 3d microsoft paint
[19:23] <bigcalm> Take logs with you
[19:23] <bigcalm> Hah
[19:23] <ali1234> cubes lol
[19:24] <bigcalm> Still one of the better reviews of minecraft: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2680-Minecraft
[19:24] <bigcalm> Sadly requires flash
[19:24] <smittix> Hmm. Someone just got flamed for mentioning a different os in #fedora.
[19:24] <smittix> How friendly.
[19:24] <ali1234>  #fedora is full of weenies
[19:25] <Hippychick> right, must go, need to conserve battery :/
[19:29] <vazir> odin__: hi
[19:29] <vazir> hi
[19:35]  * popey tickles AlanBell with http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/happyhour.pdf
[19:35] <popey> hoping it will get updated
[19:36] <AlanBell> really, OK
[19:36] <AlanBell> I only did that for the millbank fridge!
[19:36] <popey> oh, ok, nvm
[19:36]  * AlanBell fires up inkscape
[19:38] <Daviey> AlanBell: nice
[19:39] <bigcalm> AlanBell: you need to remove The Station from the happy hour list (it closed on Sunday)
[19:39] <AlanBell> bigcalm: yeah, will do
[19:39] <bigcalm> Ta
[19:40] <bigcalm> No idea what our LUG are going to do now
[19:40] <StevenR> bigcalm: drink another pub dry every so often?
[19:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: find another pub?
[19:40] <gord> build your own pub!
[19:41] <bigcalm> The LUG met at a back room at the pub for free. I think they like their privacy rather than being 'on show' to other pub gowers
[19:41] <bigcalm> goers
[19:41] <mgdm> with... oh wait, the Bender from Futurama reference would be inappropriate
[19:41] <bigcalm> Which is a shame
[19:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> So I see Firefox 7.0 will be rather short lived then. 7.01 tomorrow probably
[19:41] <mgdm> TheOpenSourcerer: security fault?
[19:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> mozilla Bug 680802
[19:41] <bigcalm> 7? Oh for flip
[19:41] <StevenR> bigcalm: I like that arrangement "We promise to come in and regularly drink alot, please can we have a room?" "Sure"
[19:42] <bigcalm> Yeah, you'd think that was a good ploy. Seems pubs are worried about insurance
[19:43] <AlanBell> popey: http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/happyhour.pdf
[19:43] <FunnyGuy> hi
[19:44] <StevenR> bigcalm: insurance?
[19:44] <AlanBell> hi
[19:45] <bigcalm> StevenR: against fires and disabled access and lots of other things that make handy unused back rooms unsuitable
[19:46] <StevenR> bigcalm: ah. sadness. :(
[19:46] <bigcalm> The Station had a room, upstairs with no fire exit and only one way in/out
[19:46] <bigcalm> Very lucky to get to use it
[19:49] <mgdm> There's a pub at home with a fully-fitted bar on the second floor as well as the ground floor one. They're not allowed to use it as there's only one entrance
[19:50] <StevenR> mgdm: how much would it cost to get a second door?
[19:50] <mgdm> StevenR: lots. Listed building, it'd need an external fire escape and there's nowhere really to put it, etc.
[19:51] <StevenR> :(
[19:51] <StevenR> the pub EdLUG used to use closed down too :(
[19:52] <zleap> hello
[19:55] <mgdm> StevenR: the Holyrood Tavern...?
[19:57] <StevenR> mgdm: yeah. At least I heard that it closed
[19:57] <mgdm> I heard similar
[19:57] <mgdm> I've not been since 2005, though :)
[19:58] <StevenR> not since 2006 me
[19:58] <mgdm> I might take a wander over (I'm in Glasgow myself)
[20:07] <bigcalm> Our LUG would be SLUG if it wasn't for Sydney
[20:07] <bigcalm> Who has GLUG?
[20:08] <mgdm> bigcalm: no, your lug would be SLUG if it wasn't for Sydney and Scotland :P
[20:08] <bigcalm> Heh
[20:08] <bigcalm> mgdm: and every other county beginning with S
[20:08] <jacobw> Surrey
[20:10] <AlanBell> bigcalm: Greater London LUG
[20:11] <zleap> or somerset
[20:11] <bigcalm> That would be Gllug
[20:11] <AlanBell> it is
[20:11] <AlanBell> close enough :)
[20:11] <bigcalm> I asked who had Glug :P
[20:12] <popey> bigcalm: i registered glug.org.uk
[20:12] <jacobw> Gloucester
[20:12] <zleap> yeah
[20:12] <popey> in anticipation of LUGs wanting to be GNU/Linux User Groups
[20:12] <zleap> sounds right for glug
[20:12] <popey> glug.org.uk isnt gloucester
[20:12] <jacobw> haha
[20:12] <zleap> mind you the devon and cornwall lug has the same letters as for the washington DC lug :)
[20:12] <popey> it goes to lug.org.uk
[20:13] <jacobw> when i saw stallman, somebody asked a question and forgot the GNU/
[20:13] <bigcalm> Apart from RMS, does anybody care that much to include GNU?
[20:15] <zleap> we ended up changing the dclug to dcglug to include gnu, that was matt lee's idea,  who now works for RMS,   he did bring a mac to a lug meet once,
[20:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> A site for your bookmarks - This chap has *every* curry recipe every on his site: http://www.greatcurryrecipes.net/ And it's updated regularly too.
[20:17] <bigcalm> popey: gave in and ordered both the leather strap and the terrorwatch :)
[20:17] <bigcalm> I'll have a watch for every day use and one for geek events :D
[20:18] <popey> yay
[20:18] <popey> zleap: matt lee tried to get all UK lugs to switch
[20:19] <popey> he failed massively
[20:19] <popey> most told him to get lost
[20:19] <zleap> hmm
[20:19] <popey> he wanted to set up a list of UK free software groups
[20:19] <zleap> he managed it with US
[20:19] <popey> the requirement was that you have to change your name
[20:19] <popey> to get on the list
[20:19] <zleap> ah
[20:19] <popey> surrey said "okay"
[20:19] <popey> matt pasted basically the gnu manifesto on their homepage (a wiki)
[20:20] <popey> which made the site look like arse
[20:20] <zleap> thing is we have try and er explain GNU which is not easy sometimes
[20:20] <popey> so someone moved the chunky bits to a second page
[20:20] <popey> this was enough for matt to get the hump and tell them they couldn't be listed
[20:20] <popey> this is one of the very many reasons I have very little time for the FSF
[20:20] <popey> stunts like that do them no favours
[20:20] <bigcalm> Well meaning but miss guided
[20:21] <zleap> yeah
[20:21] <mgdm> I was a member for a while, but got scunnered with some of their stunts
[20:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> who is miss guided?
[20:21] <zleap> so is he still working for the FSF
[20:22] <zleap> TheOpenSourcerer, misguided i guess
[20:22] <mgdm> I seem to remember the "everyone go and book up all the tech support slots at the Apple store" thing was the one which made me realise they live on a different planet to most of us
[20:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> That was a (supposedly) funny and rhetorical question zleap but clearly it failed on both counts.
[20:22] <zleap> oh sorry
[20:23] <popey> mgdm: http://popey.com/blog/2008/07/28/Demented_by_Design/
[20:23] <popey> :D
[20:23] <zleap> i remember him tryingto say thast if you can't do something using free software you should not do it at all,
[20:23] <mgdm> popey: Oh yes, you even link to my blog :)
[20:23] <ali1234> asking questions you already know the answer to is called rhetoric
[20:23] <zleap> rather than resorting to non free software
[20:24] <ali1234> what is currently bugging me is why so many people want free software to become popular
[20:25] <mgdm> popey: hah, I love the ethernet cable thing
[20:25] <ali1234> personally i don't give a damn if joe public uses free software or not, if they can't contribute anything
[20:25] <popey> that was matt lee too
[20:25] <mgdm> popey: reinforces my "different planet" thought
[20:25] <popey> in #lugradio
[20:25] <mgdm> Figured
[20:25] <popey> :D
[20:25] <ali1234> and, if you can't fix bugs or write documentation, then you cannot contribute, imo
[20:26] <zleap> i am not techie, however i try and contribute someting such as ideas, see the 12.04 thread
[20:26] <ali1234> not in the "your not allowed to contribute" sense, but simply because nothing else is actually useful
[20:26] <ali1234> ideas are cheap, everyone has ideas
[20:27] <ali1234> free software is supposed to compete on merit
[20:27] <ali1234> not on who has the most fanbois
[20:27]  * popey runs after ali1234 with an autograph book
[20:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> Wow! I have just been followed by a "Neon Hat Supplier" in Vancouver...
[20:28] <ali1234> and that just doesn't work when the relatively small pool of developers is trying to satisfy the demands of hundreds of thousands of non-technical users
[20:28] <jacobw> who wouldn't want a neon hat/
[20:29] <zleap> any idea if skype stores a password locally on the hard disk
[20:29] <ali1234> in the past i have heard the argument "well, if more people use linux, more companies will make drivers"
[20:29] <ali1234> but this clearly isn't working
[20:30] <jacobw> zleap: i doubt it would store in plaintext on local disk
[20:30] <mgdm> In other news, the clingfilm trick for poaching eggs is ace - someone needs a medal for that
[20:30] <ali1234> all we have is a bunch of buggy closed source drivers that cause even more problems than having no driver at all
[20:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> ali1234: But there are more drivers. Mostly stuff just works now.
[20:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> mgdm: Prey tell. My wife likes poached eggs...
[20:30] <zleap> ali1234, i guess the same idea is for games
[20:30] <ali1234> yeah, something else that isn't working
[20:31] <zleap> problem is when the do make games for LInxu then end up over priced so people don't buy em due to the price
[20:31] <mgdm> TheOpenSourcerer: put some clingfilm over the top of a cup, with a dip in it, crack the egg into it, carefully gather the ends, chuck in boiling water
[20:31] <mgdm> TheOpenSourcerer: considerably less faff than the other ways
[20:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm - Wifey has a twin cup thing that she sticks in the microwave. Seems to work OK.
[20:32] <jacobw> zleap: http://blog.reactive-software.com/skype-password-recovery/
[20:32] <mgdm> TheOpenSourcerer: Oh aye, those are handy. I don't have one though
[20:32] <zleap> thanks
[20:32] <zleap> it logs inon my netbook, but i wrote it down, just can't find it
[20:33] <bigcalm> Silicon egg pods from Lakeland are good for poaching :)
[20:33] <zleap> i need it to log in via my desktop too,
[20:34] <bigcalm> Oh look, a new UUPC to listen to :D \o/
[21:14] <diplo> evening all
[21:14] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S04E16  Fates Warning - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2011/09/28/s04e16-fates-warning/
[21:28] <bigcalm> Re backups - My parents' backup to my house and I backup to my parents' house. All with rdiff-backup
[21:28] <AlanBell> rdiff-backup ftw
[21:33]  * StevenR likes rsnapshot
[21:34] <bigcalm> popey: with your dropbox snafu, you could have restored the files via the web interface
[22:52] <czajkowski> aloha
[22:52] <AlanBell> o/
[22:53] <AlanBell> bigcalm: http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour/ station removed
[22:55] <daftykins> cor, power troubles in the channel islands
[22:55] <daftykins> power cut the other day, two more tonight :S
[23:15] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] US only? - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2011/09/us-only/