[00:20] <allnickstaken> I'm having an issue with my deluge and i'm not sure why. I'm using it on my laptop as normal and my server with deluged. On my laptop EVERY tracker works np. On the server there is one tracker which is reporting Error: Invalid port. Any ideas what causes this please? Deluge 1.3.3 (current ports set are 55000-64000)
[00:46] <daftykins> allnickstaken: you're not using UPnP ?
[05:47] <Girly-Girl> hi
[06:56] <czajkowski> aloha
[07:55] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski
[07:55] <czajkowski> hi
[07:56] <czajkowski> join #RWCants
[07:56] <czajkowski> not able to talk in here without swearing right now
[09:01] <brobostigon> morning everyone.
[09:01] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[09:01] <brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
[09:02] <nymwar> hello all
[09:02] <brobostigon> morning nymwar
[09:05] <AlanBell> morning all
[09:10] <czajkowski> AlanBell: aloha
[09:20]  * AlanBell thinks czajkowski will be a bit smiley right now
[09:20] <czajkowski> just a bit
[09:20] <czajkowski> :D
[09:58] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:59] <brobostigon> morning AlanBell, czajkowski and bigcalm :)
[10:00] <bigcalm> o/
[10:02] <bigcalm> czajkowski: I think the RWC is bad for your health
[10:03] <bigcalm> czajkowski: you appear to be quite stressed in your tweets :)
[10:10] <gord> raid problems are ruining my nice sunday morning :( stupid thing got stuck
[10:44] <allnickstaken> daftykins, i'm rebooting whole server after activating uPnP
[10:44] <allnickstaken> will keep you posted
[11:03] <czajkowski> bigcalm: fantastic game, shame italians were cheating feckers
[11:03] <bigcalm> czajkowski: I quite agree :(
[11:04] <bigcalm> Has any one team sailed through all of their games?
[11:19] <czajkowski> NZ
[11:24] <bigcalm> Clear win for them then...
[11:24] <bigcalm> Time for sushi!
[11:32] <Girly-Girl> bigcalm: Requesting permission to hack your computer
[11:51] <kirrus> Girly-Girl: you really want to hack a computer?
[11:51] <Girly-Girl> kirrus: Yup
[11:52] <mgdm> try 127.0.0.1
[12:12] <AlanBell> hey, thats my IP address!
[12:12] <kirrus> ...
[12:21] <Girly-Girl> mgdm: Works, but all I can get is my own stuff
[12:25] <kirrus> Girly-Girl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Localhost
[12:26] <Girly-Girl> kirrus: I was joking about that I know
[12:28] <kirrus> Girly-Girl: Kinda hard to tell your technical ability over the internet :)
[12:50] <zprood> Hi
[12:51] <kirrus> hello
[12:53] <zprood> It's nice be here, i am a freshman.
[12:57] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1277/detail/  <- pub \o/
[12:58] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1283/detail/ <- release party in a pub \o/
[12:58] <zprood> great.
[12:58] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1293/detail/ <- other release party in a different pub \o/
[12:59] <kirrus> zprood: welcome, then :)
[13:00] <kirrus> zprood: it's pretty quiet today, but it's normally busier
[13:01] <kirrus> Did I scare him off or somint? :(
[13:23] <czajkowski> cannot wait
[13:23] <czajkowski> http://www.hispaniola.co.uk/FaultyTowers.php?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=fawlty&gclid=CKLjzoyMyqsCFQUNfAodAWOh3w  tickets booked for here on the 18th
[13:27] <AlanBell> nice :)
[13:30] <Monsterwizard> when is it wabbit season?
[13:33] <AlanBell> I think that opens just after the haggis season starts
[15:04] <SuprEngr> hmm... trying to get Ubuntu to recognise a disk [any disk] disk in USB floppy drive [USB floppy drive recognised ok]
[15:04] <directhex> SuprEngr, have you  mounted the floppy?
[15:05] <directhex> /dev/fd0 at a guess
[15:06] <SuprEngr> I try - oh how I have tried! all it will let me do is format the floppy drive itself [even if no disk in it] - cries
[15:07] <SuprEngr> ...tried 32 different floppy drives - both oh under *that  other* OS
[15:07] <SuprEngr> oops please eread 2 for 32
[15:08] <SuprEngr> damn numb finger!
[15:09]  * SuprEngr starts auction for dead digit - priceb - a working one pretty please
[15:16] <SuprEngr> and p.s. -  "mount: can't find /dev/fd0 in /etc/fstab or /etc/mtab" [or any other dev/xxx I've tried]
[15:20] <directhex> you can't just do "mount /dev/foo" if there's no fstab entry for /dev/foo. you need to do "mount /dev/fd0 /media/floppy
[15:27] <duvelhedz> SuprEngr: Sudo blkid to list what the drive is coming up as, then mount /dev/xxx /media/xxx as directhex says
[15:38] <SuprEngr> duvelhedz, sorry for late reply [cooking as well as begging]...
[15:38] <SuprEngr> [doing it ow]
[15:40] <SuprEngr> directhex, soz - meant to say fd0 - problem lies between keyboard and pooter - [numb finger probs atm]
[15:40] <SuprEngr> [[doing it now]
[15:43] <duvelhedz>  SuprEngr: how did you get on
[15:48] <SuprEngr> duvelhedz,   /dev/sdg: SEC_TYPE="msdos" UUID="5C51-1AE0" TYPE="vfat" [did I forget to mention that what I was hoping to do was put a copy of msdos - then win for workgroups - into virtual;box ;)
[15:48] <SuprEngr> no mount -no go
[15:49] <SuprEngr> [damn history -all I wanted was to preserve an old OS
[15:50] <duvelhedz> Sudo mkdir /media/floppy && Sudo mount /dev/sdg -t vfat /media/floppy
[15:50] <duvelhedz> Without the capitals though
[15:51] <SuprEngr> duvelhedz, love the way yours keeps coming up as Sdo - thanks, had just seen that
[15:52] <SuprEngr> *Sudo
[15:55] <SuprEngr> wow -that's an improvement - mount: block device /dev/sdg is write-protected, mounting read-only  ... that'll do for me!!
[15:55] <SuprEngr> duvelhedz, cheers a mil... & then a mil more
[15:56] <duvelhedz> No worries. You got sorted right?
[15:58] <SuprEngr> duvelhedz, well nautilus has just read disk contents 100% ok - now it's down to sorting out vbox
[15:58] <duvelhedz> Happy days!
[15:58] <SuprEngr> weeeeeeeeee!
[15:59]  * SuprEngr copies and saves log for future reference ;D
[16:06] <duvelhedz> To back up and avoid using the floppy use "dd if=/dev/sdg of=~/filename.dd" then sudo mount ~/filename.dd -t vfat /media/floppy when you need to use it. Big difference in the speed of a floppy v a hard drive
[16:23] <gordonjcp> afternoon
[16:23] <gordonjcp> is there a way to get rid of the massive sidebar with the icons in unity?
[16:24] <gordonjcp> or make it about half the size, and ideally lie along the bottom of the screen?
[16:25] <SuprEngr> gordonjcp, have you installed Compiz manager - if not, do that & look for the Unity add-on. It's in that.
[16:26] <gordonjcp> SuprEngr: I'm still in the installer
[16:26] <gordonjcp> I don't want to use compiz
[16:27] <gordonjcp> SuprEngr: at the moment I'm just trying it out off a USB stick
[16:31] <SuprEngr> but it uses compiz already
[16:40] <brobostigon> for an update-alternatives to apply, i need to logout, and then back in again. ?
[17:10] <YaManicKill> the answer is "harder than you'd expect"
[17:10] <YaManicKill> ooops
[17:11] <YaManicKill> wrong line...
[17:11] <YaManicKill> oh for crying out loud, how hard can it be to get an editable live distro to boot up, show a webpage, and shut down again at a certain time...
[17:11] <YaManicKill> there...that one first :-P
[17:11] <YaManicKill> then the first..
[17:11] <^aDaM> lo all
[18:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> quiet in here. Nothing happening? Or is everyone driving home from the beach?
[18:06] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: boo
[18:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> ah hello czajkowski
[18:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> good result this morning?
[18:06] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: enjoy the games over the weekend
[18:06] <czajkowski> yes great game
[18:07] <czajkowski> 1st half a bit dull
[18:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> I really enjoyed the Eng Sco game.
[18:07] <czajkowski> 2nd half was brilliant
[18:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> That's the only one I saw.
[18:07] <czajkowski> not the england game
[18:07] <gord> since asda.com has crap password security stuff (no special characters, more than x letters, less than x and so on) i'v just been using the "forgotten your password" form to reset it every time i visit there, its actually really good security now i think about it
[18:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> Read about Ire and Wales this morning on phone.
[18:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> Was at Hockey with thing2
[18:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> Am might glad it's France next w/e.
[18:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> *mighty
[18:09]  * TheOpenSourcerer is moving a 50GB VM image between hosts.
[18:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> yawn
[18:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> Sleeping on a dodgy sofa bed at a Travelodge on Friday (I lost the coin toss with AlanBell) has done something nasty to my right shoulder area. twinges galore.
[18:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yipee - Only 10GB to go.
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: bed bugs? :)
[18:19] <popey> lo TheOpenSourcerer
[18:19] <popey> oneiric is getting on my nerves. suspending when i dont want it to
[18:20] <czajkowski> ph you too
[18:20] <czajkowski> I leave my machine alone for 15 mins and it's gone
[18:20] <czajkowski> really anoying since latest upgrade
[18:20] <gord> the gnome 3 power manager won't listen to a single word i tell it
[18:21] <czajkowski> also my default setting to watching movies changed from vlc
[18:21] <czajkowski> and my desktop change
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> gord: that's by design
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> gord: you shouldn't want to change anything
[18:24] <gord> i think its just a bug ;)
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> gord: try convincing the gnome devs
[18:35] <Azelphur> woo, shortened my water cooling pipe and put 2x1TB hdds in my pc...didn't break anything :D
[18:35] <Azelphur> now to install 11.10 \o/
[18:36] <Azelphur> well, actually that sata hdd dock doesn't seem to be working with my old HDD :(
[18:37] <ali1234> the bug where the monitor turns off instantly if you set it to "never" is still around too
[18:37] <Azelphur> haha
[19:08] <Azelphur> Hmm, Installed 11.10 and it seems to just hang at "Checking battery state... [ OK ]"
[19:11] <gord> Azelphur, sudo start gdm
[19:12] <Azelphur> gord, unknown job gdm
[19:12] <Azelphur> didn't they change the dm in 11.10?
[19:12]  * bigcalm returns and wonders what he missed
[19:13] <popey> bigcalm: bbq :D
[19:13] <bigcalm> Damn
[19:13] <bigcalm> popey: oh well, had sushi instead
[19:14] <Azelphur> ah, I see why it's dead
[19:14] <Azelphur> none of the open drivers support my gpu at all :D
[19:15] <Azelphur> is there a command line way to install the nvidia drivers?
[19:15] <Azelphur> hmm actually, I wonder how that's possible baring in mind the livecd worked :S
[19:15] <Azelphur> in my Xorg.0.log I can see it saying "The NVIDIA GPU at PCI:3:0:0 is not suuported by the 173.14.30 NVIDIA driver"
[19:16] <Azelphur> whys it installed a ancient version of a proprietary driver on a fresh install?
[19:20] <Azelphur> yea...it really has installed nvidia proprietary 173 ootb
[19:20] <Azelphur> wtf is up with that?
[19:21] <ali1234> oneiric?
[19:21] <Azelphur> yea
[19:21] <ali1234> it offered me a choice of two different nvidia drivers
[19:21] <ali1234> i just went with the default
[19:22] <Azelphur> it didn't here, it just went ahead and installed 173 which obviously don't work with my gtx 570
[19:22] <ali1234> "obviously"
[19:23] <Azelphur> 173 is like 134132423 years old :p
[19:23] <Azelphur> I think it happened because I ticked the install proprietary drivers / updates in the installer
[19:24] <Azelphur> I'mma test that and file a bug, assuming I'm right :)
[19:24] <ali1234> there is no such button
[19:24] <ali1234> "download updates" only downloads updates
[19:24] <ali1234> and the other one only installs fluendo afaik
[19:25] <ali1234> did you install the nvidia driver while using the livecd?
[19:25] <ali1234> because if you do that it is transfered to the installed system as well
[19:25] <ali1234> which can turn out bad if you later use the same liveusb to install on a machine without nvidia
[19:25] <popey> nope
[19:25] <ali1234> nope?
[19:26] <popey> the other button installs proprietary nvidia too
[19:26] <ali1234> oh, ok
[19:26] <popey> surprised me when I first did it
[19:26] <jpds> technology.in.2011++
[19:26] <popey> dialling.up.the.non-free.to.11
[19:26] <Azelphur> ali1234, no I didn't
[19:26] <ali1234> does it also install flash?
[19:26] <popey> i dont recall
[19:27] <ali1234> because installing flash in oneiric is pretty difficult
[19:27] <popey> i looked at the source for ubiquity, I'm not entirely clear what the current situation is
[19:27] <Azelphur> so yea, that's probably a bug then
[19:27] <ali1234> you have a 50/50 chance of it working
[19:27] <Azelphur> it's picked the wrong version of the driver for my GTX 570 :)
[19:27] <jpds> Azelphur: jocket-text is what you seek.
[19:27] <popey> there's ubuntu-restricted-extras and ubuntu-restricted-addons
[19:27] <popey> lies
[19:27] <popey> jockey-text
[19:27] <Azelphur> jpds, awesome
[19:27] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-lens-applications/+bug/863745
[19:28] <popey> Recommends: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly, flashplugin-installer, gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad, gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg, icedtea6-plugin, gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3
[19:28] <popey> thats what -addons installs
[19:28] <ali1234> but not nvidia?
[19:28] <popey> Depends: ubuntu-restricted-addons
[19:28] <popey> Recommends: ttf-mscorefonts-installer, unrar, gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse, libavcodec-extra-53
[19:28] <popey> no, thats separate logic
[19:28] <popey> ^^^ thats -extras
[19:29] <ali1234> so does that mean it installs flash?
[19:29] <popey> so extras is addons plus fonts, unrar, more codecs
[19:29] <popey> no
[19:29] <popey> oh, yes
[19:29] <popey> flashplugin-installer is flash of course
[19:29] <ali1234> see the bug i just posted
[19:29]  * popey clicks
[19:29] <ali1234> there's two packages for flash, one on 32 bit one on 64 bit
[19:29] <ali1234> but you are able to install either one on either arch
[19:29] <ali1234> and if you pick the wrong one... it doesn't work
[19:29] <Azelphur> yup, straight up after using jockey to install the current nvidia driver
[19:30] <Azelphur> yay for breaking things, I'll file a bug later today \o/
[19:30] <Azelphur> like the new login screen though, quite fancy looking
[19:30] <popey> bah, my unity just crapped out
[19:30] <Azelphur> and I like the grid switcher on the new unity
[19:30] <AlanBell> 
[19:31] <AlanBell> oops
[19:32] <Azelphur> is post-release updates newer than version current?
[19:32] <ali1234> no idea
[19:32] <Azelphur> indeed, it's confusing, post release updates would indicate that you get updates after the release, but version current would indicate the current verseion...the two terms seem to mean the same thing :S
[19:32] <popey> ok, so one is flashplugin-installer, the other is adobe-flashplugin
[19:33] <ali1234> ok?
[19:33] <ali1234> so the first one presumably is flashplugin-installer
[19:33] <popey> yes
[19:33] <ali1234> and installing it would work on 32 or 64 bit
[19:33] <ali1234> with the only side effect being unneccessary nspluginwrapper installation?
[19:34] <ali1234> or would it actually mess up if installed on 32 bit?
[19:34] <popey> not sure, i dont have any 32-bit boxen to test
[19:34] <ali1234> i do
[19:35] <ali1234> anyway if that is the case, the second one should never show up
[19:36] <AlanBell> adobe-flashplugin is from the partner repo isn't it
[19:36] <ali1234> the two packages actually conflict
[19:36] <ali1234> if you click one, the other one is makred for removal
[19:38] <popey> thats a mess
[19:38] <ali1234> seems to work
[19:39] <ali1234> that is, they both work on 32 bit
[19:39] <ali1234> only one works on 64 bit
[19:43] <Azelphur> haha, 11.10 is pulling a KDE on multi X screen support
[19:43] <Azelphur> "None at all, go away"
[19:56] <Azelphur> Gnome 2 and 3 are both broken in similar ways as the previous release
[19:57] <Azelphur> but adding some extra brokenness to the equation, apparently I can't have a wallpaper any more.
[19:57] <popey> I didnt think we shipped gnome 2 in 11.10
[19:57] <ali1234> lololololol
[19:57] <ali1234> there's no gnome 2
[19:57] <Azelphur> popey, it's a package you can install, gnome-fallback
[19:57] <popey> no, it isnt
[19:57] <popey> thats gnome-3 fallback
[19:57] <Azelphur> oh, that explains why it doesn't work then \o/
[19:57] <popey> to look a bit like gnome 2
[19:57] <popey> but it isnt gnome 2
[19:58] <Azelphur> hehe
[19:58] <ali1234> gnome-shell and gnome-fallback are both gnome 3
[19:58] <popey> as is unity ;)
[19:58] <Azelphur> I'm assuming it's not working anyway, I seem to have pretty much no buttons
[19:58] <popey> i havent tried gnome-fallback
[19:58] <Azelphur> at the top of my screen I have the menu bar from nautilus
[19:58] <Azelphur> and nothing else
[19:58] <Azelphur> in both gnome 3 and gnome-fallback
[19:58] <ali1234> that means 3d acceleration isn't working and *whatever* failed to load because it needs it
[19:58] <ali1234> but it didn't detect this
[19:58] <ali1234> because it detects based on graphics card
[19:59] <Azelphur> hmm, my 3d should be working
[19:59] <ali1234> so if you have a graphics card that should work but doesn't, you just gte nothing
[19:59] <Azelphur> I thought it was the same panel bug that was in gnome 2 where the panel crashes if you have multi X
[19:59] <Azelphur> (the 8-9 year old one)
[20:00] <ali1234> well it could be that too
[20:00] <ali1234> i dunno
[20:00] <Azelphur> yea my 3d accel works fine in unity
[20:00] <Azelphur> just my second X screen is a white background with a "X" pointer
[20:00] <Azelphur> :(
[20:01] <ali1234> bug report it
[20:01] <ali1234> bug report all these things
[20:01] <Azelphur> I will do, I just don't intend on holding my breath for multi X support
[20:01] <Azelphur> had exactly the same issue with KDE and they basically told me to go away
[20:02] <ali1234> well
[20:02] <ali1234> the thing about kde
[20:02] <ali1234> they won't do anything unless you kick up a huge fuss
[20:02] <Azelphur> haha
[20:02] <ali1234> you just have to know what buttons to press
[20:02] <Azelphur> :p
[20:02] <Azelphur> still, temp workarounds first so I can get my system online...hmm
[20:03]  * Azelphur ponders
[20:04] <ali1234> KDE sucks anyway
[20:04] <Azelphur> indeed :p
[20:04] <Azelphur> I know, I'll go bug ubuntu-x for some ideas
[20:05]  * dutchie wonders how far AlanBell and ali1234 got with the ubuntu countdown code
[20:06] <ali1234> we figured it out
[20:06] <dutchie> oh?
[20:06] <AlanBell> all the way :)
[20:06] <gord> what is that thing about?
[20:06] <popey> :D
[20:07] <AlanBell> http://www.thisisthecountdown.com/
[20:07] <AlanBell> it isn't counting down to the release
[20:08] <popey> they've added attribution!
[20:08] <popey> that wasn't there before
[20:08] <jacobw> wow
[20:08] <AlanBell> they have :)
[20:08] <popey> "Created by the Ubuntu-Adverts team."
[20:08] <ali1234> popey: they did that yesterday
[20:08] <popey> ahh
[20:08] <ali1234> well i don't understand why they are promoting it on twitter if it's really not ready
[20:08] <ali1234> but i'm stumped for what to do next
[20:10] <AlanBell> something about friends
[20:10] <ali1234> where is that quote from?
[20:10] <ali1234> the one about squares?
[20:10] <popey> i believe the "game" starts when the countdown finishes
[20:10] <popey> its a teaser
[20:10] <ali1234> well that's silly
[20:15] <Azelphur> <I told you so> btw been saying since 8.04 that multi X screen support was getting worse and would eventually be non existent :p</I told you so>
[20:15] <ali1234> nobody ever disagreed
[20:16] <ali1234> X is dead anyway
[20:16] <ali1234> switch to wayland
[20:16] <AlanBell> does wayland have a good multi-screen story baked in from the start?
[20:16] <Azelphur> ^ this
[20:16] <ali1234> i doubt it
[20:16] <Azelphur> so what good would switching to wayland do me o.O
[20:16] <ali1234> none at all
[20:16] <Azelphur> fun
[20:17] <ali1234> it probably won't even work with nvidia driver for like 10 years anyway
[20:17] <ali1234> so you'll have to use nouceau
[20:17] <ali1234> so forget about gaming on that
[20:17] <Azelphur> \o/
[20:17] <ali1234> i turned on dual mead with nouveau and it crashed within 5 minutes
[20:17] <ali1234> i wasn't even doing anything
[20:17] <Azelphur> lol
[20:18] <Azelphur> I dunno quite why nautilus has stopped drawing the wallpaper on my second screen
[20:18] <Azelphur> it always used to work
[20:18] <ali1234> the real problem with X is 90% of the code is unused and nobody wants/dares to touch it
[20:20] <Azelphur> I know, I can turn nautilus off and get compiz to draw my wallpaper
[20:20] <Azelphur> amazingly compiz is actually the best wm for multi X support atm haha
[20:20] <ali1234> compiz is also an architectural nightmare
[20:20] <Azelphur> but it works well, and they are ontop of X screen bugs :)
[20:21] <ali1234> it crashes if i change the monitor settings
[20:22] <Azelphur> *shrug* it crashes sometimes
[20:22] <Azelphur> but nvidia driver is about as stable as a plate of jelly anyway
[20:23] <Azelphur> ali1234, they are quite good when it comes to fixing crashes too
[20:23] <Azelphur> if you file bugs with crash dumps they are usually fixed
[20:25] <ali1234> well i filed one today
[20:25] <ali1234> but it is private
[20:28] <Azelphur> ali1234, looks like everything gnome has switched to hard coded $DISPLAY
[20:28] <Azelphur> I think that's why :/
[20:28] <Azelphur> if I open nautilus on :0.1 it opens on :0
[20:29] <Azelphur> so yep, this is officially unusable now
[20:29] <Azelphur> :(
[20:48] <Azelphur> I think XFCE might be jumping in to save the day o.O
[20:48] <Azelphur> went wandering around asking in a few channels, a guy has the exact same setup and says XFCE wins at it
[20:48] <Azelphur> installed XFCE, and so far it seems to be...working :o
[20:50] <Azelphur> ali1234, XFCE kicks ass for this :o
[20:50] <Azelphur> It actually has support...proper support
[20:51] <Azelphur> individual screen settings!
[20:51] <ali1234> lolno
[20:51] <ali1234> i tried it
[20:51] <Azelphur> yes :o
[20:51] <ali1234> didn't work at all
[20:51] <Azelphur> I'm using it right now, working at all it is.
[21:57] <gordonjcp> comedy
[21:57] <gordonjcp> I've had about three goes at installing the most recent 11.10 daily
[21:57] <gordonjcp> every time it fails, because the computer goes to sleep before the install has completed
[21:58] <ali1234> lol
[21:58] <AlanBell> oops
[22:00] <AlanBell> oneiric computers dreamily drifting off to sleep
[22:00] <gordonjcp> heh
[22:06] <gordonjcp> right, I'm quite keen to give Ubuntu a shot, particularly since I've been asked to package some stuff I've written for it
[22:06] <mgdm> Do oneiric computers dream of electric ocelots?
[22:06] <ali1234> AlanBell: that is quite an odd coincidence
[22:06] <gordonjcp> which is the best one?
[22:07] <ali1234> 10.04
[22:07] <mgdm> gordonjcp: I imagine you'll get on better with the LXDE or similar versions
[22:07] <AlanBell> 12.04
[22:07] <mgdm> gordonjcp: I'm probably switching to one of them soonish
[22:07] <gordonjcp> ali1234: 10.04 isn't much good, since I'd have to replace every single package on the system
[22:08] <gordonjcp> basically I find gnome-shell totally unusable and I don't like compizzy desktops
[22:08] <ali1234> why?
[22:08] <gordonjcp> ali1234: because they're obsolete
[22:09] <ali1234> forget ubuntu, install arch instead
[22:09] <gordonjcp> ali1234: that's what I normally use
[22:09] <AlanBell> package for debian
[22:09] <gordonjcp> debian is worse
[22:10] <ali1234> tell your users ubuntu is too much trouble, and they should switch to arch too
[22:10] <hamitron> :|
[22:10] <gordonjcp> ali1234: that's... really helpful, thanks
[22:11] <ali1234> i try to please
[22:11] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: is it stuff that you want in the main archives, or in the software centre for ubuntu?
[22:11] <ali1234> btw canonical has a service where they package your app for you
[22:11] <ali1234> but only if you will sell it in the app store
[22:11] <ali1234> afaik
[22:11] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: I don't know
[22:11] <gordonjcp> what's the software centre?
[22:12] <ali1234> the ubuntu app store
[22:12] <AlanBell> app store, that you can sell stuff in, as well as get stuff from the archives, so I didn't phrase that very well
[22:12] <gordonjcp> if I install with apt-get in 10.04, stuff like osm-gps-map is about two years old
[22:13] <AlanBell> it would be, yes
[22:13] <gordonjcp> actually osm-gps-map is closer to four years old
[22:13] <AlanBell> "stable" means "doesn't change"
[22:13] <AlanBell> !info osm-gps-maps
[22:13] <AlanBell> !info osm-gps-map
[22:14] <gordonjcp> might not have hyphens in it
[22:14] <Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/osm-gps-map
[22:14] <AlanBell> !info python-osmgpsmap
[22:15] <gordonjcp> yeah, that's well out of date
[22:17] <AlanBell> http://nzjrs.github.com/osm-gps-map/ so 0.7.3 is out
[22:18] <Laney> debian has it.
[22:24] <AlanBell> I think it would need a merge not a sync as it has ubuntu3 in the version number (so we have messed with it)
[22:25] <gordonjcp> hm, is there a way to see what's been messed with?
[22:27] <Laney> patches.ubuntu.com
[22:29] <gordonjcp> right, attempt four at installing
[22:30] <AlanBell> Laney: so where on patches.ubuntu.com would it be?
[22:31] <Laney> http://patches.ubuntu.com/o/osm-gps-map/osm-gps-map_0.7.2-1ubuntu3.patch
[22:31] <AlanBell> ah, not by package name
[22:31] <Laney> source package name
[22:32] <AlanBell> right, ok
[22:32] <Laney> pretty sure it is syncable now though
[22:32] <gordonjcp> yeah, it just looks like it messes with the debian/ directory in some way
[22:32] <ali1234> apt-get source, then look in debian/patches
[22:32] <ali1234> gordonjcp: all debian specific changes have to go in debian/
[22:33] <ali1234> everything outside that is supposed to be untouched
[22:33] <Laney> sometimes.
[22:33] <ali1234> in the source package that is
[22:33] <ali1234> the patches are applied to the source
[22:33] <ali1234> most packages use quilt for that
[22:42] <gordonjcp> nope, it's fallen over again
[22:43] <gordonjcp> it sits at "Configuring target system" for about 20 minutes, then shuts down
[22:46] <gordonjcp> oh well, so much for that then
[22:49] <dogmatic69_> could anyone point me in the direction of allowing pings on my server?
[22:49] <dogmatic69_> if i ping now nothing happens
[22:49] <bigcalm> Open the port for imcp
[22:50] <dogmatic69_> any specific one?
[22:50] <ali1234> srsly?
[22:50] <ali1234> icmp operates below the level of ports
[22:51] <dogmatic69_> ?
[22:51] <dogmatic69_> never heard of icmp before :/
[22:52] <ali1234> you know when you get connection refused
[22:52] <ali1234> that implies that communication is done before connecting to a port, right?
[22:52] <ali1234> it has to send a message "may i connect to port X?"
[22:52] <ali1234> those messages are done on icmp
[22:53] <dogmatic69_> ah ok
[22:53] <dogmatic69_> but its still some port
[22:53] <ali1234> no
[22:53] <dogmatic69_> :O
[22:53] <kirrus> dogmatic69_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Control_Message_Protocol
[22:53]  * dogmatic69_ is on there
[22:54] <kirrus> :)
[22:55] <dogmatic69_> so ive added return echo to aws on icpm firewall rules
[22:55] <dogmatic69_> security thing
[22:55] <dogmatic69_> is there anything server specific to do?
[22:56] <ali1234> doubt it
[22:57] <dogmatic69_> 7 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 6031ms
[22:57] <dogmatic69_> :/
[22:58] <dogmatic69_> pinging the wrong one :D
[22:59] <dogmatic69_> all fixed now, thanks
[23:02] <gordonjcp> this is just weird, the install media says it's okay when you run the self-test thing, and it seems to work when I boot off it, but the installer just doesn't want to play
[23:02] <ali1234> try the alternate installer
[23:14] <gord> i would add way more people who add me to google plus if they had any information about who they are in their profile..
[23:19] <gordonjcp> ali1234: I'll wait until 11.10 comes out, I don't see an installer for the dailies
[23:19] <ali1234> dont use the dailies
[23:19] <gordonjcp> ali1234: no point in getting 11.04 when it's about to be replaced
[23:21] <gordonjcp> ali1234: in which case, I'll leave it until 11.10 comes out
[23:21] <gordonjcp> ali1234: I already tried 11.04, it's too hard to use
[23:21] <ali1234> compared to what?
[23:22] <gordonjcp> ali1234: gnome, xfce, icewm, basically any sane desktop ;-)
[23:23] <hamitron> gnome is sane?
[23:23] <hamitron> :|
[23:23] <gordonjcp> hamitron: gnome 2 was
[23:23] <gordonjcp> gnome 3 is just as bad as unity
[23:24] <hamitron> I prefered gnome 1 tbh
[23:24] <Laney> hahaha
[23:24] <ali1234> lol
[23:24] <ali1234> gnome 1
[23:24] <ali1234> try xfce then
[23:24] <gordonjcp> a desktop PC is not a single-task device, and I don't know why both unity and gnome-shell are trying to push the idea that it is
[23:24] <hamitron> xfce is turning fat too
[23:24] <ali1234> because the desktop pc is only really suitable for professionals
[23:25] <gordonjcp> I don't get the idea of having a massive great bar down the left side of the screen, taking up a ridiculous amount of screen real estate
[23:25] <hamitron> LXDE <3
[23:25] <ali1234> that's a weak argument
[23:25] <gordonjcp> and then having it disappear and reappear if it feels like it
[23:25] <hamitron> Unity will suck on a non-widescreen then?
[23:25] <ali1234> they all have bars along the screen
[23:25] <gordonjcp> hamitron: yes
[23:25] <hamitron> :/
[23:25] <ali1234> hamitron: can you even buy none widescreens?
[23:25] <gordonjcp> I can see how it would work well on widescreen
[23:25] <gordonjcp> ali1234: most laptops
[23:25] <ali1234> no
[23:26] <hamitron> ali1234, who said I spent money? ;/
[23:26] <gordonjcp> most "proper" LCD monitors, ie. ones not derived from cheap TV LCDs
[23:26] <ali1234> lol no
[23:26] <ali1234> pro grade monitors are widescreen now
[23:26] <hamitron> if I was to buy one, I would get widescreen tbh
[23:27] <hamitron> nothing decent and new in std ratio
[23:27] <gordonjcp> ali1234: so unity is only suitable for running on the very newest hardware?
[23:27] <hamitron> ubuntu is for the latest hardware, yes
[23:27] <hamitron> ;)
[23:27] <ali1234> if you consider anything under 5 years old "the very newest hardware" then yes
[23:28] <ali1234> if you want to attack ubuntu on it's requirements, then the memory usage is the real problem
[23:28] <ali1234> 2GB isn't enough
[23:28] <hamitron> but rather than complaining about things, I've just dropped ubuntu from my problem machines.... then use ubuntu with an open mind on new spec machines
[23:29] <hamitron> 9-10 months and I will give it a go
[23:29] <hamitron> :)
[23:29] <ali1234> no one is making you use ubuntu
[23:29] <hamitron> exactly
[23:29] <hamitron> choice <3
[23:29] <ali1234> it's not like you can buy a computer and it is locked to only run ubuntu
[23:29] <gordonjcp> well anyway
[23:29] <hamitron> dig dig win8? ;)
[23:30] <gordonjcp> ali1234: it's got nothing to do with the requirements, and more to do with frankly daft design decisions
[23:30] <ali1234> i agree
[23:30] <gordonjcp> I see that 11.10 still has that thing where it puts the menu bar right at the top of the screen
[23:30] <ali1234> a lot of what is in unity and zeitgeist and the software centre is totally awful
[23:30] <gordonjcp> whoever thought that one up needs a hefty belt with the clue stick
[23:31] <ali1234> you mean the same place where it was in gnome 2?
[23:31] <gordonjcp> ali1234: uuhhhhhh
[23:31] <gordonjcp> no, I've only ever seen that in unity and Mac OS
[23:31] <ali1234> oh you mean global menus
[23:31] <ali1234> yeah that REALLY sucks
[23:32] <ali1234> it can be disabled though
[23:32] <gordonjcp> the only reason for that on Mac OS was the completely brain-damaged way that it handled multiprogramming in like System 6
[23:32] <gordonjcp> there's no excuse for it these days
[23:32] <ali1234> i can't use mac os because of it
[23:32] <ali1234> well that and the dock
[23:33] <hamitron> and the price? ;/
[23:33] <ali1234> no, i have a mac in the cupboard
[23:33] <ali1234> don't use it
[23:33] <hamitron> oh :)
[23:33] <gordonjcp> the dock is a stupid idea too
[23:33] <ali1234> operating system is garbage :(
[23:33] <gordonjcp> turning it on its side and sticking it down the left side of the screen doesn't help
[23:33] <ali1234> yeah
[23:34] <gordonjcp> at least in 11.10 if you mouseover the boxes you get a tooltip telling you what it is
[23:34] <gordonjcp> in 11.04 there's no way to tell what each of the boxes is
[23:34] <ali1234> you get that in 11.04 too
[23:34] <ali1234> but sometimes it stops working due to a bug
[23:34] <gordonjcp> it didn't when I tried it
[23:34] <ali1234> but the trick with the dock is to remove all the junk that is in it by default
[23:34] <ali1234> i only have firefox, nautilus, synaptic, terminal
[23:35] <gordonjcp> it's still hard to tell applications apart
[23:35] <gordonjcp> well, it is if you can't tell icons apart, which I can't
[23:36] <gordonjcp> can you install ubuntu without all the stuff like staroffice?
[23:36] <ali1234> with the alternate CD you can
[23:37] <hamitron> or mini.iso
[23:38] <hamitron> alt is better for non-ubuntu nutts
[23:38] <hamitron> ;)
[23:50] <shauno> I've only got one machine still running ubuntu.  and that's not likely to survive the next LTS :/
[23:54] <Azelphur> I'm nearly settled in XFCE now, This quite possibly could be the end of my multi monitor rants :o
[23:54] <Azelphur> It like...actually works and has multi monitor support...and doesn't just fall over and die