| _mup_ | Bug #865163 was filed: default-series option has surprising behaviour <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/865163 > | 09:16 |
|---|---|---|
| niemeyer | Good mornings! | 12:46 |
| rogpeppe | niemeyer: hiya! | 12:56 |
| fwereade | heya niemeyer | 13:00 |
| niemeyer | Hey folks! | 13:02 |
| * niemeyer grabs coffee before engaging into juju awesomeness | 13:03 | |
| hazmat | g'morning | 13:17 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: Yo | 13:23 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, greeting | 13:32 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: Alan seemed pleasantly surprised with juju | 13:33 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, awesome! | 13:34 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, they've been setting up a saas system with plone.. ploud.. i'm glad you guys had a chance to talk | 13:34 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: Spent good part of Saturday's afternoon hacking a django "platform" charm with Sidnei.. very cool stuff | 13:35 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, sweet! | 13:35 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: and he was around for part of it | 13:35 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, did you guys use bash? or python? | 13:35 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: Bash for the low level charm integration.. but it's a surprisingly small amount of code | 13:36 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: Checks the branch out from Launchpad, and puts it live | 13:36 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, indeed, checking out revision control is the only main thing i used python for | 13:36 |
| hazmat | on a wsgi charm | 13:36 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, virtualenv for requirements.. but figuring out the db dependency from config was a little odd | 13:37 |
| hazmat | made me want runtime dependency declarations | 13:37 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: Ah, interesting.. we didn't go so far | 13:37 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: We were thinking about a python-level or app-level hook for installing dependencies | 13:38 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, yeah.. as it is right now i've got optional relations for lots of things, and i just populate a conf file with the properties for the app | 13:38 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: Ah, sweet! | 13:38 |
| hazmat | using gunicorn for serving up the app ( easy multi-process using a pre-fork model) | 13:38 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: We were going in the direction of an nginx server | 13:38 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, nginx is a good front end, but i still expect that to be a separate unit.. within a unit the socket bind, fork, saves an extra hop | 13:40 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: Hadn't heard of gunicorn before | 13:40 |
| hazmat | which is needed for the frontend anyways | 13:40 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, its a nice front end to wsgi apps supports several options.. gevent, pre-fork workers, etc. | 13:41 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: Nice, we should talk to sidnei about this | 13:41 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, sounds good | 13:44 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, just a heads up... i'm going to be working on solving transient zk disconnect issues and upstartifying things this week | 14:22 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: Good timing.. on a call with fwereade and we were just talking about that :-) | 14:23 |
| hazmat | fwereade, niemeyer, cool, how's the remote repo working coming? | 14:23 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: Wanna join? | 14:24 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, definitely | 14:24 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: sent | 14:24 |
| robbiew | niemeyer: fyi, I updated the call to use my conference number | 14:58 |
| robbiew | 1075684916 | 14:58 |
| niemeyer | robbiew: Joining | 15:01 |
| niemeyer | Lunch time! | 16:05 |
| niemeyer | brb | 16:05 |
| robbiew | FYI -> https://juju.ubuntu.com/Testing | 16:07 |
| robbiew | :) | 16:07 |
| SpamapS | cool | 16:11 |
| SpamapS | http://summit.openstack.org/sessions/view/103 | 16:32 |
| SpamapS | lol.. look at the example they use for server templates. ;) | 16:32 |
| SpamapS | "A server template could be used, for example, to build a server containing a pre-installed WordPress system and database" | 16:32 |
| niemeyer | robbiew: Wow! | 16:50 |
| niemeyer | robbiew: Integrates very neatly | 16:50 |
| * robbiew is so happy IS added the rawhtml option to our wiki ;) | 16:51 | |
| niemeyer | robbiew: +1 :) | 16:53 |
| m_3 | robbiew: rawhtml... yay | 16:53 |
| * rogpeppe is off. see ya tomorrow. | 17:00 | |
| robbiew | rogpeppe: cya | 17:09 |
| niemeyer | rogpeppe: Cheers! On a call now, but will review your branches before you're back :) | 17:16 |
| _mup_ | Bug #865550 was filed: Provide automation for including apparmor profiles in charms <juju:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/865550 > | 17:35 |
| niemeyer | Four hours of meetings should be good enough for a Monday | 18:02 |
| * niemeyer tries to actually review some code now | 18:02 | |
| _mup_ | juju/unit-info-cli r423 committed by kapil.thangavelu@canonical.com | 19:15 |
| _mup_ | copy host resolv.conf to container before attempting any resolutions, in the customize chroot, this was being masked by the local package cache | 19:15 |
| * hazmat heads out to doctor appt, bbiab | 19:18 | |
| niemeyer | hazmat: Good luck there! :) | 19:26 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: When you're back, would like to ping you on a minor | 19:26 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: ping | 19:32 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: Yo | 19:32 |
| fwereade | thanks for the review | 19:32 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: one I'm about to address and merge, one addressed in a followup, one I intend to address in a followup | 19:32 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: Cool | 19:33 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: Branches seem to be missing pre-reqs, btw | 19:33 |
| fwereade | really? crap, let me check | 19:33 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: The require-default-series one is.. hmm.. interesting | 19:33 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: Yeah, it's fine as I can imagine what the stack is | 19:33 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: But it's good to have that in place in general | 19:34 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: consider that one speculative, I wasn't sure you'd like it but itseemed better to implement while you were away than to moon around wondering | 19:34 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: definitely | 19:34 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: It's good speculation.. it seemed wrong and I was tempted to ask for more information | 19:35 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: yeah, looks like I've missed at least one :( sorry | 19:35 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: But pondering on the problem for a while, you have a point | 19:35 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: it's clint's point really :) | 19:35 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: _Today_, detecting the revision will yield surprising results more often than it will be useful | 19:36 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: Well, SpamapS has a point then :-) | 19:36 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: detecting the series, right? | 19:36 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: Yeah, sorry | 19:37 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: Detecting is really the long term solution | 19:37 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: But, there are two points that make it suboptimal: | 19:37 |
| niemeyer | 1) There's a single series that work today | 19:37 |
| niemeyer | 2) We do auto-updating of the environment config, which can yield surprising results | 19:38 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: 3) we want people to be able to run juju from non-ubuntu systems | 19:39 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: I do feel it would be nice to be smarter about it, but I think I've convinced myself at least that Least Surprise is the right principle to follow at this point | 19:40 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: the fact that auto-updating can *still* break this solution is (I think) a point against auto-updating, rather than against the solution | 19:40 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: 3) is kind of irrelevant in this specific case | 19:41 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: feels somewhat relevant to the long-term case, but I don't really feel that specific point is going to be a fruitful avenue of discussion right now ;) | 19:42 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: The fact someone wants to be able to work in environment B isn't good reasoning for not doing something in environment A which is actually more common right now | 19:42 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: granted | 19:43 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: Yeah, least surprise is good too | 19:43 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: and it's actually exactly what we were going at with the original approach, though | 19:43 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: If you're siting on a machine running Natty, doing things remotely with Natty is expected | 19:44 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: The problem, and the reason why it has my sympathy, are points 1) and 2) above | 19:44 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: For 1), natty doesn't exist | 19:44 |
| niemeyer | (for juju) | 19:44 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: well, indeed :) | 19:44 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: re. 2), auto-updating means we'd get different behavior on an _existing_ environment post-bootstrap | 19:45 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: Which is quite awkward | 19:45 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: yep | 19:45 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: I'm happy to move forward with the simplistic way for now.. | 19:47 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: We'll have to change this once there are other releases, but we have some time to think | 19:47 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: I'll just check it up with hazmat | 19:47 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: cool -- I agree it's not perfect, but it feels like a sensible short-term solution | 19:47 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: +1 | 19:48 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: Awesome.. just reviewing docs, but I think we're settled as far as our conversation goes | 19:48 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: We need the auto-revision bumping now, and the fake testing server | 19:48 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: Probably in that order, so that we can get things rolling into the Ubuntu front while we sort out the testing and all | 19:49 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: WDYT? | 19:49 |
| fwereade | yep, sounds good to me | 19:53 |
| fwereade | niemeyer, in case you didn't see, sounds good to me | 19:55 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: Cool! | 19:55 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: Thanks for checking out | 19:55 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: I'll finish reviewing the doc branch, but we're in sync I think | 19:56 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: cool | 19:56 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: there will be another doc tweak at some stage, to fix up the draft I mention | 19:56 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: but, well, it is a draft :) | 19:56 |
| niemeyer | fwereade: Yeah, cool :-) | 19:57 |
| Aram | hello. | 20:16 |
| niemeyer | Aram: Hey! | 20:33 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: Can you please check out this when you have a moment: https://code.launchpad.net/~fwereade/juju/require-default-series/+merge/77878 | 20:50 |
| niemeyer | I'm going to step out for some exercising and be back later today | 20:50 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: (I've assumed it was; the other place is the new-user tutorial, where every extra character counts, IMO) | 20:53 |
| fwereade | niemeyer: (and now I've convinced myself I'm wrong: the full charm url will show up in status, and it'll be clearer that the two places reference the same thing if they look like the same thing) | 20:59 |
| * hazmat checks out branch | 22:13 | |
| niemeyer | fwereade: I'm here, but you're probably not.. :p | 23:28 |
| SpamapS | niemeyer: so, how is the eureka push going? | 23:33 |
| SpamapS | I've been distracted with other Ubuntu stuff all day | 23:33 |
| niemeyer | SpamapS: Very well.. the only critical bit is the client-side store work | 23:34 |
| niemeyer | SpamapS: fwereade's branches are in pretty good shape, though.. we'll probably have everything in by tomorrow, or wednesday the latest | 23:34 |
| niemeyer | SpamapS: fwereade will then work on a fake server the rest of the week so we can be sure that the store support _actually_ works | 23:35 |
| niemeyer | SpamapS: and then finish the real store in the next couple of weeks | 23:35 |
| SpamapS | We can always release an updated client if the API has to change | 23:36 |
| niemeyer | SpamapS: That's cool, but at least the that work we're finishing tomorrow/wednesday should really be in | 23:37 |
| niemeyer | Aram: ping | 23:38 |
| Aram | niemeyer: pong. | 23:39 |
| niemeyer | Aram: Hey! | 23:39 |
| SpamapS | niemeyer: indeed, its a bit more of an abuse of the process to SRU a whole new feature in than it is to just SRU a new API version in. :) | 23:40 |
| niemeyer | SpamapS: Yeah, and also because my _hope_ is that we'll have zero incompatible changes in the 11.10=>12.04 time frame | 23:40 |
| SpamapS | +1 from me on that | 23:41 |
| niemeyer | SpamapS: So would really like to have the store work now, so that if we have to SRU changes they use the same user interface | 23:41 |
| SpamapS | would go a long way to building up user support if they're able to smoothly transition to the PPA and/or 12.04 without having to do anything to their charms/running envs/etc. | 23:42 |
| niemeyer | SpamapS: Exactly | 23:42 |
| niemeyer | SpamapS: That's my hope really | 23:42 |
| SpamapS | Seems like the last of the big structural local storage changes are in with juju-origin and the local charm repository organization. | 23:42 |
| niemeyer | SpamapS: juju-origin is kind of minor in that regard | 23:43 |
| SpamapS | I do think we'll have to see some backflips in code as the ZK topology changes.. | 23:43 |
| niemeyer | SpamapS: the charm url user interface is the big deal | 23:43 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: ping | 23:43 |
| niemeyer | SpamapS: another bit we have to sort out is being able to tag formulas as incompatible with a given revision in a nice way | 23:44 |
| niemeyer | SpamapS: But that seems fine for an SRU | 23:45 |
| SpamapS | yeah | 23:45 |
| SpamapS | thats another one where it fits nicely the SRU desire to make sure interoperability with remote services is maintained | 23:45 |
| niemeyer | Right | 23:46 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, pong | 23:46 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: Yo! | 23:47 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: How're things going there? Still churning, or more like heading to a beer? :) | 23:48 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, really hoping to have the unit get cli and addresses in relations by default in for oneiric | 23:48 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: Neat | 23:48 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, both in the queue | 23:48 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: I'll check that out today still | 23:48 |
| SpamapS | hazmat: that would be *saweet* | 23:48 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: Awesome | 23:48 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, i'm still running into occasional issues with the local provider stuff, think it might be because i switch local networks so often | 23:49 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: Hmm | 23:49 |
| hazmat | not sure, still also seeing an occasional lxc problem when i try to ssh into a machine | 23:49 |
| hazmat | i committed a fix for the network issue, it always manifests as xmlrpc.launchpad.net temp failure in resolution | 23:49 |
| SpamapS | I'll gladly do a mass bug file/fix in the charm repo once that is done, as that gives us much better reliability in non-ec2 environments | 23:49 |
| hazmat | not sure if its a good fix though | 23:49 |
| hazmat | works for me atm though | 23:50 |
| hazmat | pty allocation error re lxc problem | 23:50 |
| hazmat | only a reboot fixes it once it shows up | 23:50 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, having a look over fwereade's branches atm, still churning | 23:50 |
| hazmat | and that's not mutually exclusive to a beer ;-) | 23:50 |
| hazmat | tdd ftw ;-) | 23:50 |
| hazmat | saw the new db pkg for go | 23:51 |
| hazmat | elmo was at the surge conference saw him the last day we chatted a bit | 23:51 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: :-) | 23:51 |
| niemeyer | hazmat: On that last branch, check-latest-formulas, I think we need something like | 23:52 |
| niemeyer | /charm-info?charms=<urls> | 23:52 |
| niemeyer | So that we can get metadata + bundle-sha256 at once | 23:52 |
| niemeyer | for all the charms | 23:52 |
| hazmat | niemeyer, sounds good, as we learned rest purisms fails for efficiency | 23:53 |
| niemeyer | Yeah | 23:53 |
| niemeyer | It feels bad to do _3_ requests per charm download | 23:53 |
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