[09:16] <_mup_> Bug #865163 was filed: default-series option has surprising behaviour < https://launchpad.net/bugs/865163 > [12:46] Good mornings! [12:56] niemeyer: hiya! [13:00] heya niemeyer [13:02] Hey folks! [13:03] * niemeyer grabs coffee before engaging into juju awesomeness [13:17] g'morning [13:23] hazmat: Yo [13:32] niemeyer, greeting [13:33] hazmat: Alan seemed pleasantly surprised with juju [13:34] niemeyer, awesome! [13:34] niemeyer, they've been setting up a saas system with plone.. ploud.. i'm glad you guys had a chance to talk [13:35] hazmat: Spent good part of Saturday's afternoon hacking a django "platform" charm with Sidnei.. very cool stuff [13:35] niemeyer, sweet! [13:35] hazmat: and he was around for part of it [13:35] niemeyer, did you guys use bash? or python? [13:36] hazmat: Bash for the low level charm integration.. but it's a surprisingly small amount of code [13:36] hazmat: Checks the branch out from Launchpad, and puts it live [13:36] niemeyer, indeed, checking out revision control is the only main thing i used python for [13:36] on a wsgi charm [13:37] niemeyer, virtualenv for requirements.. but figuring out the db dependency from config was a little odd [13:37] made me want runtime dependency declarations [13:37] hazmat: Ah, interesting.. we didn't go so far [13:38] hazmat: We were thinking about a python-level or app-level hook for installing dependencies [13:38] niemeyer, yeah.. as it is right now i've got optional relations for lots of things, and i just populate a conf file with the properties for the app [13:38] hazmat: Ah, sweet! [13:38] using gunicorn for serving up the app ( easy multi-process using a pre-fork model) [13:38] hazmat: We were going in the direction of an nginx server [13:40] niemeyer, nginx is a good front end, but i still expect that to be a separate unit.. within a unit the socket bind, fork, saves an extra hop [13:40] hazmat: Hadn't heard of gunicorn before [13:40] which is needed for the frontend anyways [13:41] niemeyer, its a nice front end to wsgi apps supports several options.. gevent, pre-fork workers, etc. [13:41] hazmat: Nice, we should talk to sidnei about this [13:44] niemeyer, sounds good [14:22] niemeyer, just a heads up... i'm going to be working on solving transient zk disconnect issues and upstartifying things this week [14:23] hazmat: Good timing.. on a call with fwereade and we were just talking about that :-) [14:23] fwereade, niemeyer, cool, how's the remote repo working coming? [14:24] hazmat: Wanna join? [14:24] niemeyer, definitely [14:24] hazmat: sent [14:58] niemeyer: fyi, I updated the call to use my conference number [14:58] 1075684916 [15:01] robbiew: Joining [16:05] Lunch time! [16:05] brb [16:07] FYI -> https://juju.ubuntu.com/Testing [16:07] :) [16:11] cool [16:32] http://summit.openstack.org/sessions/view/103 [16:32] lol.. look at the example they use for server templates. ;) [16:32] "A server template could be used, for example, to build a server containing a pre-installed WordPress system and database" [16:50] robbiew: Wow! [16:50] robbiew: Integrates very neatly [16:51] * robbiew is so happy IS added the rawhtml option to our wiki ;) [16:53] robbiew: +1 :) [16:53] robbiew: rawhtml... yay [17:00] * rogpeppe is off. see ya tomorrow. [17:09] rogpeppe: cya [17:16] rogpeppe: Cheers! On a call now, but will review your branches before you're back :) [17:35] <_mup_> Bug #865550 was filed: Provide automation for including apparmor profiles in charms < https://launchpad.net/bugs/865550 > [18:02] Four hours of meetings should be good enough for a Monday [18:02] * niemeyer tries to actually review some code now [19:15] <_mup_> juju/unit-info-cli r423 committed by kapil.thangavelu@canonical.com [19:15] <_mup_> copy host resolv.conf to container before attempting any resolutions, in the customize chroot, this was being masked by the local package cache [19:18] * hazmat heads out to doctor appt, bbiab [19:26] hazmat: Good luck there! :) [19:26] hazmat: When you're back, would like to ping you on a minor [19:32] niemeyer: ping [19:32] fwereade: Yo [19:32] thanks for the review [19:32] niemeyer: one I'm about to address and merge, one addressed in a followup, one I intend to address in a followup [19:33] fwereade: Cool [19:33] fwereade: Branches seem to be missing pre-reqs, btw [19:33] really? crap, let me check [19:33] fwereade: The require-default-series one is.. hmm.. interesting [19:33] fwereade: Yeah, it's fine as I can imagine what the stack is [19:34] fwereade: But it's good to have that in place in general [19:34] niemeyer: consider that one speculative, I wasn't sure you'd like it but itseemed better to implement while you were away than to moon around wondering [19:34] niemeyer: definitely [19:35] fwereade: It's good speculation.. it seemed wrong and I was tempted to ask for more information [19:35] niemeyer: yeah, looks like I've missed at least one :( sorry [19:35] fwereade: But pondering on the problem for a while, you have a point [19:35] niemeyer: it's clint's point really :) [19:36] fwereade: _Today_, detecting the revision will yield surprising results more often than it will be useful [19:36] fwereade: Well, SpamapS has a point then :-) [19:36] niemeyer: detecting the series, right? [19:37] fwereade: Yeah, sorry [19:37] fwereade: Detecting is really the long term solution [19:37] fwereade: But, there are two points that make it suboptimal: [19:37] 1) There's a single series that work today [19:38] 2) We do auto-updating of the environment config, which can yield surprising results [19:39] niemeyer: 3) we want people to be able to run juju from non-ubuntu systems [19:40] niemeyer: I do feel it would be nice to be smarter about it, but I think I've convinced myself at least that Least Surprise is the right principle to follow at this point [19:40] niemeyer: the fact that auto-updating can *still* break this solution is (I think) a point against auto-updating, rather than against the solution [19:41] fwereade: 3) is kind of irrelevant in this specific case [19:42] niemeyer: feels somewhat relevant to the long-term case, but I don't really feel that specific point is going to be a fruitful avenue of discussion right now ;) [19:42] fwereade: The fact someone wants to be able to work in environment B isn't good reasoning for not doing something in environment A which is actually more common right now [19:43] niemeyer: granted [19:43] fwereade: Yeah, least surprise is good too [19:43] fwereade: and it's actually exactly what we were going at with the original approach, though [19:44] fwereade: If you're siting on a machine running Natty, doing things remotely with Natty is expected [19:44] fwereade: The problem, and the reason why it has my sympathy, are points 1) and 2) above [19:44] fwereade: For 1), natty doesn't exist [19:44] (for juju) [19:44] niemeyer: well, indeed :) [19:45] fwereade: re. 2), auto-updating means we'd get different behavior on an _existing_ environment post-bootstrap [19:45] fwereade: Which is quite awkward [19:45] niemeyer: yep [19:47] fwereade: I'm happy to move forward with the simplistic way for now.. [19:47] fwereade: We'll have to change this once there are other releases, but we have some time to think [19:47] fwereade: I'll just check it up with hazmat [19:47] niemeyer: cool -- I agree it's not perfect, but it feels like a sensible short-term solution [19:48] fwereade: +1 [19:48] fwereade: Awesome.. just reviewing docs, but I think we're settled as far as our conversation goes [19:48] fwereade: We need the auto-revision bumping now, and the fake testing server [19:49] fwereade: Probably in that order, so that we can get things rolling into the Ubuntu front while we sort out the testing and all [19:49] fwereade: WDYT? [19:53] yep, sounds good to me [19:55] niemeyer, in case you didn't see, sounds good to me [19:55] fwereade: Cool! [19:55] fwereade: Thanks for checking out [19:56] fwereade: I'll finish reviewing the doc branch, but we're in sync I think [19:56] niemeyer: cool [19:56] niemeyer: there will be another doc tweak at some stage, to fix up the draft I mention [19:56] niemeyer: but, well, it is a draft :) [19:57] fwereade: Yeah, cool :-) [20:16] hello. [20:33] Aram: Hey! [20:50] hazmat: Can you please check out this when you have a moment: https://code.launchpad.net/~fwereade/juju/require-default-series/+merge/77878 [20:50] I'm going to step out for some exercising and be back later today [20:53] niemeyer: (I've assumed it was; the other place is the new-user tutorial, where every extra character counts, IMO) [20:59] niemeyer: (and now I've convinced myself I'm wrong: the full charm url will show up in status, and it'll be clearer that the two places reference the same thing if they look like the same thing) [22:13] * hazmat checks out branch [23:28] fwereade: I'm here, but you're probably not.. :p [23:33] niemeyer: so, how is the eureka push going? [23:33] I've been distracted with other Ubuntu stuff all day [23:34] SpamapS: Very well.. the only critical bit is the client-side store work [23:34] SpamapS: fwereade's branches are in pretty good shape, though.. we'll probably have everything in by tomorrow, or wednesday the latest [23:35] SpamapS: fwereade will then work on a fake server the rest of the week so we can be sure that the store support _actually_ works [23:35] SpamapS: and then finish the real store in the next couple of weeks [23:36] We can always release an updated client if the API has to change [23:37] SpamapS: That's cool, but at least the that work we're finishing tomorrow/wednesday should really be in [23:38] Aram: ping [23:39] niemeyer: pong. [23:39] Aram: Hey! [23:40] niemeyer: indeed, its a bit more of an abuse of the process to SRU a whole new feature in than it is to just SRU a new API version in. :) [23:40] SpamapS: Yeah, and also because my _hope_ is that we'll have zero incompatible changes in the 11.10=>12.04 time frame [23:41] +1 from me on that [23:41] SpamapS: So would really like to have the store work now, so that if we have to SRU changes they use the same user interface [23:42] would go a long way to building up user support if they're able to smoothly transition to the PPA and/or 12.04 without having to do anything to their charms/running envs/etc. [23:42] SpamapS: Exactly [23:42] SpamapS: That's my hope really [23:42] Seems like the last of the big structural local storage changes are in with juju-origin and the local charm repository organization. [23:43] SpamapS: juju-origin is kind of minor in that regard [23:43] I do think we'll have to see some backflips in code as the ZK topology changes.. [23:43] SpamapS: the charm url user interface is the big deal [23:43] hazmat: ping [23:44] SpamapS: another bit we have to sort out is being able to tag formulas as incompatible with a given revision in a nice way [23:45] SpamapS: But that seems fine for an SRU [23:45] yeah [23:45] thats another one where it fits nicely the SRU desire to make sure interoperability with remote services is maintained [23:46] Right [23:46] niemeyer, pong [23:47] hazmat: Yo! [23:48] hazmat: How're things going there? Still churning, or more like heading to a beer? :) [23:48] niemeyer, really hoping to have the unit get cli and addresses in relations by default in for oneiric [23:48] hazmat: Neat [23:48] niemeyer, both in the queue [23:48] hazmat: I'll check that out today still [23:48] hazmat: that would be *saweet* [23:48] hazmat: Awesome [23:49] niemeyer, i'm still running into occasional issues with the local provider stuff, think it might be because i switch local networks so often [23:49] hazmat: Hmm [23:49] not sure, still also seeing an occasional lxc problem when i try to ssh into a machine [23:49] i committed a fix for the network issue, it always manifests as xmlrpc.launchpad.net temp failure in resolution [23:49] I'll gladly do a mass bug file/fix in the charm repo once that is done, as that gives us much better reliability in non-ec2 environments [23:49] not sure if its a good fix though [23:50] works for me atm though [23:50] pty allocation error re lxc problem [23:50] only a reboot fixes it once it shows up [23:50] niemeyer, having a look over fwereade's branches atm, still churning [23:50] and that's not mutually exclusive to a beer ;-) [23:50] tdd ftw ;-) [23:51] saw the new db pkg for go [23:51] elmo was at the surge conference saw him the last day we chatted a bit [23:51] hazmat: :-) [23:52] hazmat: On that last branch, check-latest-formulas, I think we need something like [23:52] /charm-info?charms= [23:52] So that we can get metadata + bundle-sha256 at once [23:52] for all the charms [23:53] niemeyer, sounds good, as we learned rest purisms fails for efficiency [23:53] Yeah [23:53] It feels bad to do _3_ requests per charm download