rwwfreenode has always been run by trolls, kthx.00:00
IdleOnenot according to the whois output I have00:00
IdleOneI keep reaching for my empty cup :(00:00
IdleOnemaybe I need to fill it00:00
IdleOne!away > Wilcon_afk00:45
ldunnugh. Let me go fix that.01:15
PerfMLast time I'll be in here today, PROMISE04:38
PerfMI was typing!04:40
IdleOnePerfM: this is getting boring. what are you going to pretend to need now?04:41
PerfMI agree, this is getting tiring.04:41
PerfMrww is dealing so hang ten, and we'll see if he can get the job one04:41
rwwIdleOne: Given that PerfM recently PMed me the entirely-reasonable question "am I supposed to be banned from #ubuntu-offtopic?", I suggest that autokicking her is a bit premature.04:41
PerfMPerfM-1 IdleOne-004:42
IdleOnenext time I suggest you come in with " Hi, I'm here at rww's request"04:42
PerfMIdleOne, next time you should kick me ;)04:42
rwwIdleOne: she isn't here at my request. I suggest you catalyze better. Or at all.04:42
rwwPerfM: yes, you're banned by PerfieM!*@*. I'll add your current nick to the list so you don't accidentally join.04:43
PerfMcool bean, you might wanna do the same to the women's channel too04:43
PerfMbeans*, it's to late to spell04:43
IdleOnemy apologies for having removed you but after the 3-4 time today.04:43
PerfMor infact all the #ubuntu channels.04:44
PerfMIdleOne, we all make mistakes04:44
PerfMthanks rww!04:44
PerfMnight team!04:44
rwwPerfM: done. I think #ubuntu already had both.04:44
PerfMlol okaaay04:44
rwwIdleOne: If she shouldn't be in here, ban her. If she should, at least pretend to be professional :P04:45
elkyDid she just ask for a namespace ban?04:50
IdleOneShe did.04:51
elkyubuntu.com does indeed appear down.07:19
ikonianice to know it's a drupal site07:20
elkyi already knew that bit07:20
ikoniaI don't actually care really07:20
Myrttiyeah old news07:20
ikoniajust surprised, it's a bit of a sloppy thing to do, not change the maintenance page07:20
FlannelApparently Ubuntu is switching to Kubuntu, just look at the blue!07:20
ikoniaFlannel: well done on starting a rumour07:21
ikoniagive it 5 minutes and vibhav will be announcing it as fact07:21
Myrttior 39 minutes07:21
Flannelikonia: Gotta wait for the logs to tick over first07:21
rwwobviously my irritating complaining about its front page took effect and they've taken it down to appease me07:22
elkylooks like the database fell over07:22
Flannelrww: I'm happy for you.07:22
Flannelrww: Now, what shall we make you complain about next?07:23
rwwFlannel: everything else07:23
elkyrww, the fact that it's down, perhaps?07:23
rwwquick, find a way in which drupal is non-free so i can complain it's not using wordpress07:24
Flannelrww: lefthand close buttons? dselect being gone? no more CLI tools by default? the potential list is endless!07:24
rwwor maybe they're moving the pages around again so i can complain about broken links again07:24
rwwFlannel: dselect was awful07:24
Flannelrww: This time they broke *all* the links!07:24
Flannelubuntu.com has been rerouted to a random other domain, good luck findin it!07:25
rwwMicrosoft bought Canonical and are shutting Ubuntu down, obviously07:27
Flanneloh goody.  At least hyperthreading will work now.07:27
Tm_Tuh hey, I thought you were talking about ubottu.com, not ubuntu.com ...07:27
rwwFlannel: hyperthreading doesn't work?07:28
Flannelrww: No, I haven't been able to get it to work since Breezy.07:29
FlannelEvery time I upgrade I spend a few hours with it before giving up again.07:29
rwwHT works fine on Linux, what are you talking about ;(07:30
FlannelIt works on Linux, it doesn't work on my machine, for whatever reason.  -smp kernel or non (well, obviously I stopped trying -smp kernels once we stopped making them)07:32
popeyFlannel: what cpu?07:32
FlannelPentium 4... something.  It lists ht in its flags, I'd have to go find the paperwork.  Unless there's some way to tell from cpuinfo (I didn't think family/model/etc were that unique)07:34
ikoniasome vibhav returns to quoting wikipedia at people as if it's his own07:35
ikoniawhy will this kid not stop it07:35
rwwFlannel: model name is unique for me07:40
rwwthough I'm on Core 2, not P407:40
popeyFlannel: odd.07:41
Flannelpopey: after spending a few days on it, I just gave up.  It's a server anyway.07:42
rwwubuntu.com's back up.07:47
rwwmy personal cloud is still got bigger.07:47
Tm_Tis still "got bigger" ?07:52
elkyi'm going to guess that he doesn't like the phrasing of the statement08:59
Myrttiunity in kde?09:25
popeybastard child of two unwanted desktops ;)09:26
=== gryAway is now known as gry
ActionParsniphey guys20:02
ActionParsnipqq about asking users to "google" stuff20:02
ActionParsnipearlier, A user was asking about updating video drivers on Lucid and I said there was the xorg edgers update ppa20:02
ActionParsnipso the user requested a link, but i was doing a billion other things, so I advised they websearch it and they would find it20:03
ikonia(I've been out of the channel for about 15 minutes, thanks to my isp - so I may need context)20:03
ActionParsnipoCean however thought this was bad and that tyelling users to try and help themselves a little was not to happen20:03
ActionParsnipdespite me pretty much giving them the direction they needed20:03
ActionParsnipuser also managed to find the ppa and add it ok20:04
ikoniathis comes up a fair bit, for me it's two parts20:04
ikonia1.) what they are asking and what their limitations are20:04
ikonia2.) how you tell them to google it20:04
ActionParsnipwas it bad I told the user to try and use his own initiative - seeing how I had pretty much nailed the answer20:04
ikoniaI have no idea abou the specific example you're talking about, so just apply common sense20:04
ikoniapushing the user in the right area for google if they obviously know what they are doing but are not quite there seems ok20:05
ActionParsniplimitations I can accept but I had given the thing they needed so they could find what I was on about and free me up to help others20:05
ActionParsnipteach a guy to fish etc20:05
ikoniatelling a user you've not got time to search for the page yourself but if they try the phrase Blah it normally comes up is "ok"20:05
ActionParsnipocean was very blunt and said I was not to do it20:05
ikoniabut saying "just google it" doesn't20:06
ikoniathe fish tales a bit annoying to be honest20:06
ActionParsnipi never say that :) I like to give direction so users learn, rather than just handing out URLs20:06
ikoniaI think as long as you apply common sense to give help to suit that user, I don't see an issue20:06
IdleOneIMO it all depends on the ability of the user, if you can tell the user knows what they are doing and just needed a push in the right direction then yeah I think it is ok.20:07
ActionParsnipocean said I should join here to discuss it, so I just wanted clarification and such20:07
ikoniaif a user has no idea what's going on and wants to know how to enable time travel in ubuntu, saying "google it" isn't helpful20:07
ikoniagetting them %90 of the way and offering a phrase for the remaining %10 as you're a bit busy is also reasonable20:07
ActionParsnipthat's what I was getting at, but teh user immediately asked for a link, which I find pretty poor20:07
ikoniaI do feel your pain on that20:07
ActionParsnipi also informed the user the merit of finding ones own guides based on direction, rather than asking for handouts20:08
ikoniathat's not really useful20:08
ikoniathe user probably knew they can google, just couldn't be bothered20:09
ActionParsnipi'd have to agree20:09
ikoniaa lecture isn't going to help, if you think the users too lazy, don't help20:09
ActionParsnipbut ocean said it was strictly to not happen ever, which I'd disagree with, hence me being here20:09
ikoniamaybe a wording issue ? maybe worth discussing with him personally20:10
ikoniaI don't know the history20:10
ikoniabut for me, just common sense, if your help actually helps the user or acts in the users best interest, I don't see an issue20:10
ActionParsnipI am AndChat|   helping Benb20:13
ActionParsnipthere is stuff above asking about how to get newer stuff in Lucid as he wanted to keep LTS but get newer drivers to support his newer hardware20:14
ActionParsnipoh and add: [17:54] <oCean> AndChat|: let me explain it this way: don't do it again20:14
LjLActionParsnip, you came across as if you were snapping. you could've said "sorry i'm on my phone, have difficulty searching but it's easy to find on google" or something20:14
ActionParsnipI guess :(20:14
ikoniaI suggest you speak to ocean as I'm not getting involved in log quoting20:14
ActionParsniphectic and stuff, but yeah coutesy and stuff20:15
ActionParsnipok i'll see what I can do, but just wanted a second opinion20:15
ikoniaand that was the common sense bit I was suggesting earlier, just saying you didn't have time to google for them20:15
ActionParsnipikonia: agreed20:15
ActionParsnipthe 'don't do it agin' bit is not appropriate though20:16
ikoniawell, not if he's asking you to not do it again20:16
ikoniaagain, don't know the context, but you seem pretty comfotable with it now ?20:17
LjLActionParsnip: well i do suggest you discuss it with oCean, he's a reasonable guy20:17
ActionParsnipikonia: oh yeah, I hust hate the whole handout url thing.20:17
ActionParsnipLjL: sometimes, not this time imho20:18
ikoniaI don't like it either.20:18
ActionParsnipthanks for your attention guys :)20:18
LjLActionParsnip: best of both worlds, "the URL is http://blah/, by the way i found it by searching for 'foo bar' on google"20:18
ActionParsnipLjL: I guess but was on my phone which is dog slow on the web unless i'm on 3g :)20:18
LjLActionParsnip: yeah i realize that, in that case it's fine not giving the URL, but i was saying the way you worded made it sound more like "meh, don't bother me and search for it yourself!" than "sorry, on phone and can't provide atm"20:19
ActionParsnipLjL: gotcha, will use that in future20:19
=== IdleOne is now known as IknowNotUbuntu
=== IknowNotUbuntu is now known as IdleOne
IdleOneActionParsnip: if there is nothing else please /part21:18

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