[00:00] <rww> freenode has always been run by trolls, kthx.
[00:00] <IdleOne> not according to the whois output I have
[00:00] <IdleOne> I keep reaching for my empty cup :(
[00:00] <IdleOne> maybe I need to fill it
[00:45] <IdleOne> !away > Wilcon_afk
[01:15] <ldunn> ugh. Let me go fix that.
[04:38] <PerfM> Last time I'll be in here today, PROMISE
[04:40] <PerfM> Omg!
[04:40] <PerfM> I was typing!
[04:41] <IdleOne> PerfM: this is getting boring. what are you going to pretend to need now?
[04:41] <PerfM> I agree, this is getting tiring.
[04:41] <PerfM> rww is dealing so hang ten, and we'll see if he can get the job one
[04:41] <PerfM> done*
[04:41] <rww> IdleOne: Given that PerfM recently PMed me the entirely-reasonable question "am I supposed to be banned from #ubuntu-offtopic?", I suggest that autokicking her is a bit premature.
[04:42] <PerfM> ^
[04:42] <PerfM> HAHA
[04:42] <PerfM> PerfM-1 IdleOne-0
[04:42] <IdleOne> next time I suggest you come in with " Hi, I'm here at rww's request"
[04:42] <PerfM> IdleOne, next time you should kick me ;)
[04:42] <rww> IdleOne: she isn't here at my request. I suggest you catalyze better. Or at all.
[04:42] <PerfM> shouldn't**
[04:43] <rww> PerfM: yes, you're banned by PerfieM!*@*. I'll add your current nick to the list so you don't accidentally join.
[04:43] <PerfM> ^
[04:43] <PerfM> cool bean, you might wanna do the same to the women's channel too
[04:43] <PerfM> beans*, it's to late to spell
[04:43] <IdleOne> my apologies for having removed you but after the 3-4 time today.
[04:44] <PerfM> or infact all the #ubuntu channels.
[04:44] <PerfM> IdleOne, we all make mistakes
[04:44] <PerfM> thanks rww!
[04:44] <PerfM> night team!
[04:44] <rww> PerfM: done. I think #ubuntu already had both.
[04:44] <PerfM> lol okaaay
[04:45] <rww> IdleOne: If she shouldn't be in here, ban her. If she should, at least pretend to be professional :P

[04:50] <elky> Did she just ask for a namespace ban?
[04:51] <IdleOne> She did.
[07:19] <elky> ubuntu.com does indeed appear down.
[07:20] <ikonia> nice to know it's a drupal site
[07:20] <elky> i already knew that bit
[07:20] <ikonia> I don't actually care really
[07:20] <Myrtti> yeah old news
[07:20] <ikonia> just surprised, it's a bit of a sloppy thing to do, not change the maintenance page
[07:20] <Flannel> Apparently Ubuntu is switching to Kubuntu, just look at the blue!
[07:21] <ikonia> Flannel: well done on starting a rumour
[07:21] <ikonia> give it 5 minutes and vibhav will be announcing it as fact
[07:21] <Myrtti> or 39 minutes
[07:21] <Flannel> ikonia: Gotta wait for the logs to tick over first
[07:21] <Myrtti> +1
[07:22] <rww> obviously my irritating complaining about its front page took effect and they've taken it down to appease me
[07:22] <rww> OBVIOUSLY
[07:22] <elky> looks like the database fell over
[07:22] <Flannel> rww: I'm happy for you.
[07:23] <Flannel> rww: Now, what shall we make you complain about next?
[07:23] <rww> Flannel: everything else
[07:23] <elky> rww, the fact that it's down, perhaps?
[07:24] <rww> quick, find a way in which drupal is non-free so i can complain it's not using wordpress
[07:24] <Flannel> rww: lefthand close buttons? dselect being gone? no more CLI tools by default? the potential list is endless!
[07:24] <rww> or maybe they're moving the pages around again so i can complain about broken links again
[07:24] <rww> Flannel: dselect was awful
[07:24] <Flannel> rww: This time they broke *all* the links!
[07:25] <Flannel> ubuntu.com has been rerouted to a random other domain, good luck findin it!
[07:27] <rww> Microsoft bought Canonical and are shutting Ubuntu down, obviously
[07:27] <Flannel> oh goody.  At least hyperthreading will work now.
[07:27] <Tm_T> uh hey, I thought you were talking about ubottu.com, not ubuntu.com ...
[07:28] <rww> Flannel: hyperthreading doesn't work?
[07:29] <Flannel> rww: No, I haven't been able to get it to work since Breezy.
[07:29] <Flannel> Every time I upgrade I spend a few hours with it before giving up again.
[07:30] <rww> what
[07:30] <rww> HT works fine on Linux, what are you talking about ;(
[07:32] <Flannel> It works on Linux, it doesn't work on my machine, for whatever reason.  -smp kernel or non (well, obviously I stopped trying -smp kernels once we stopped making them)
[07:32] <popey> Flannel: what cpu?
[07:34] <Flannel> Pentium 4... something.  It lists ht in its flags, I'd have to go find the paperwork.  Unless there's some way to tell from cpuinfo (I didn't think family/model/etc were that unique)
[07:35] <ikonia> some vibhav returns to quoting wikipedia at people as if it's his own
[07:35] <ikonia> why will this kid not stop it
[07:40] <rww> Flannel: model name is unique for me
[07:40] <rww> though I'm on Core 2, not P4
[07:41] <popey> Flannel: odd.
[07:42] <Flannel> popey: after spending a few days on it, I just gave up.  It's a server anyway.
[07:42] <popey> heh
[07:47] <rww> ubuntu.com's back up.
[07:47] <rww> my personal cloud is still got bigger.
[07:52] <Tm_T> is still "got bigger" ?
[08:59] <elky> i'm going to guess that he doesn't like the phrasing of the statement
[09:25] <Myrtti> lolhelp
[09:25] <Myrtti> unity in kde?
[09:26] <popey> bastard child of two unwanted desktops ;)
[09:26] <Myrtti> word
[20:02] <ActionParsnip> hey guys
[20:02] <ikonia> hey
[20:02] <ActionParsnip> qq about asking users to "google" stuff
[20:02] <ikonia> ok
[20:02] <ActionParsnip> earlier, A user was asking about updating video drivers on Lucid and I said there was the xorg edgers update ppa
[20:03] <ActionParsnip> so the user requested a link, but i was doing a billion other things, so I advised they websearch it and they would find it
[20:03] <ikonia> (I've been out of the channel for about 15 minutes, thanks to my isp - so I may need context)
[20:03] <ActionParsnip> oCean however thought this was bad and that tyelling users to try and help themselves a little was not to happen
[20:03] <ActionParsnip> despite me pretty much giving them the direction they needed
[20:04] <ActionParsnip> user also managed to find the ppa and add it ok
[20:04] <ikonia> this comes up a fair bit, for me it's two parts
[20:04] <ikonia> 1.) what they are asking and what their limitations are
[20:04] <ikonia> 2.) how you tell them to google it
[20:04] <ActionParsnip> was it bad I told the user to try and use his own initiative - seeing how I had pretty much nailed the answer
[20:04] <ikonia> I have no idea abou the specific example you're talking about, so just apply common sense
[20:05] <ikonia> pushing the user in the right area for google if they obviously know what they are doing but are not quite there seems ok
[20:05] <ActionParsnip> limitations I can accept but I had given the thing they needed so they could find what I was on about and free me up to help others
[20:05] <ActionParsnip> teach a guy to fish etc
[20:05] <ikonia> telling a user you've not got time to search for the page yourself but if they try the phrase Blah it normally comes up is "ok"
[20:05] <ActionParsnip> ocean was very blunt and said I was not to do it
[20:06] <ikonia> but saying "just google it" doesn't
[20:06] <ikonia> the fish tales a bit annoying to be honest
[20:06] <ActionParsnip> i never say that :) I like to give direction so users learn, rather than just handing out URLs
[20:06] <ikonia> I think as long as you apply common sense to give help to suit that user, I don't see an issue
[20:07] <IdleOne> IMO it all depends on the ability of the user, if you can tell the user knows what they are doing and just needed a push in the right direction then yeah I think it is ok.
[20:07] <ActionParsnip> ocean said I should join here to discuss it, so I just wanted clarification and such
[20:07] <ikonia> if a user has no idea what's going on and wants to know how to enable time travel in ubuntu, saying "google it" isn't helpful
[20:07] <ikonia> getting them %90 of the way and offering a phrase for the remaining %10 as you're a bit busy is also reasonable
[20:07] <ActionParsnip> that's what I was getting at, but teh user immediately asked for a link, which I find pretty poor
[20:07] <ikonia> I do feel your pain on that
[20:08] <ActionParsnip> i also informed the user the merit of finding ones own guides based on direction, rather than asking for handouts
[20:08] <ikonia> that's not really useful
[20:09] <ikonia> the user probably knew they can google, just couldn't be bothered
[20:09] <ActionParsnip> i'd have to agree
[20:09] <ikonia> a lecture isn't going to help, if you think the users too lazy, don't help
[20:09] <ActionParsnip> but ocean said it was strictly to not happen ever, which I'd disagree with, hence me being here
[20:10] <ikonia> maybe a wording issue ? maybe worth discussing with him personally
[20:10] <ikonia> I don't know the history
[20:10] <ikonia> but for me, just common sense, if your help actually helps the user or acts in the users best interest, I don't see an issue
[20:13] <ActionParsnip> http://pastebin.com/F2V3piBj
[20:13] <ActionParsnip> I am AndChat|   helping Benb
[20:14] <ActionParsnip> there is stuff above asking about how to get newer stuff in Lucid as he wanted to keep LTS but get newer drivers to support his newer hardware
[20:14] <ActionParsnip> oh and add: [17:54] <oCean> AndChat|: let me explain it this way: don't do it again
[20:14] <LjL> ActionParsnip, you came across as if you were snapping. you could've said "sorry i'm on my phone, have difficulty searching but it's easy to find on google" or something
[20:14] <ActionParsnip> I guess :(
[20:14] <ikonia> I suggest you speak to ocean as I'm not getting involved in log quoting
[20:15] <ActionParsnip> hectic and stuff, but yeah coutesy and stuff
[20:15] <ActionParsnip> ok i'll see what I can do, but just wanted a second opinion
[20:15] <ikonia> and that was the common sense bit I was suggesting earlier, just saying you didn't have time to google for them
[20:15] <ActionParsnip> ikonia: agreed
[20:16] <ActionParsnip> the 'don't do it agin' bit is not appropriate though
[20:16] <ikonia> well, not if he's asking you to not do it again
[20:17] <ikonia> again, don't know the context, but you seem pretty comfotable with it now ?
[20:17] <LjL> ActionParsnip: well i do suggest you discuss it with oCean, he's a reasonable guy
[20:17] <ActionParsnip> ikonia: oh yeah, I hust hate the whole handout url thing.
[20:18] <ActionParsnip> LjL: sometimes, not this time imho
[20:18] <ikonia> I don't like it either.
[20:18] <ActionParsnip> thanks for your attention guys :)
[20:18] <LjL> ActionParsnip: best of both worlds, "the URL is http://blah/, by the way i found it by searching for 'foo bar' on google"
[20:18] <ActionParsnip> LjL: I guess but was on my phone which is dog slow on the web unless i'm on 3g :)
[20:19] <LjL> ActionParsnip: yeah i realize that, in that case it's fine not giving the URL, but i was saying the way you worded made it sound more like "meh, don't bother me and search for it yourself!" than "sorry, on phone and can't provide atm"
[20:19] <ActionParsnip> LjL: gotcha, will use that in future
[21:18] <IdleOne> ActionParsnip: if there is nothing else please /part
[21:18] <ActionParsnip> sure