[00:00] freenode has always been run by trolls, kthx. [00:00] not according to the whois output I have [00:00] I keep reaching for my empty cup :( [00:00] maybe I need to fill it [00:45] !away > Wilcon_afk [01:15] ugh. Let me go fix that. [04:38] Last time I'll be in here today, PROMISE [04:40] Omg! [04:40] I was typing! [04:41] PerfM: this is getting boring. what are you going to pretend to need now? [04:41] I agree, this is getting tiring. [04:41] rww is dealing so hang ten, and we'll see if he can get the job one [04:41] done* [04:41] IdleOne: Given that PerfM recently PMed me the entirely-reasonable question "am I supposed to be banned from #ubuntu-offtopic?", I suggest that autokicking her is a bit premature. [04:42] ^ [04:42] HAHA [04:42] PerfM-1 IdleOne-0 [04:42] next time I suggest you come in with " Hi, I'm here at rww's request" [04:42] IdleOne, next time you should kick me ;) [04:42] IdleOne: she isn't here at my request. I suggest you catalyze better. Or at all. [04:42] shouldn't** [04:43] PerfM: yes, you're banned by PerfieM!*@*. I'll add your current nick to the list so you don't accidentally join. [04:43] ^ [04:43] cool bean, you might wanna do the same to the women's channel too [04:43] beans*, it's to late to spell [04:43] my apologies for having removed you but after the 3-4 time today. [04:44] or infact all the #ubuntu channels. [04:44] IdleOne, we all make mistakes [04:44] thanks rww! [04:44] night team! [04:44] PerfM: done. I think #ubuntu already had both. [04:44] lol okaaay [04:45] IdleOne: If she shouldn't be in here, ban her. If she should, at least pretend to be professional :P [04:45] [04:50] Did she just ask for a namespace ban? [04:51] She did. [07:19] ubuntu.com does indeed appear down. [07:20] nice to know it's a drupal site [07:20] i already knew that bit [07:20] I don't actually care really [07:20] yeah old news [07:20] just surprised, it's a bit of a sloppy thing to do, not change the maintenance page [07:20] Apparently Ubuntu is switching to Kubuntu, just look at the blue! [07:21] Flannel: well done on starting a rumour [07:21] give it 5 minutes and vibhav will be announcing it as fact [07:21] or 39 minutes [07:21] ikonia: Gotta wait for the logs to tick over first [07:21] +1 [07:22] obviously my irritating complaining about its front page took effect and they've taken it down to appease me [07:22] OBVIOUSLY [07:22] looks like the database fell over [07:22] rww: I'm happy for you. [07:23] rww: Now, what shall we make you complain about next? [07:23] Flannel: everything else [07:23] rww, the fact that it's down, perhaps? [07:24] quick, find a way in which drupal is non-free so i can complain it's not using wordpress [07:24] rww: lefthand close buttons? dselect being gone? no more CLI tools by default? the potential list is endless! [07:24] or maybe they're moving the pages around again so i can complain about broken links again [07:24] Flannel: dselect was awful [07:24] rww: This time they broke *all* the links! [07:25] ubuntu.com has been rerouted to a random other domain, good luck findin it! [07:27] Microsoft bought Canonical and are shutting Ubuntu down, obviously [07:27] oh goody. At least hyperthreading will work now. [07:27] uh hey, I thought you were talking about ubottu.com, not ubuntu.com ... [07:28] Flannel: hyperthreading doesn't work? [07:29] rww: No, I haven't been able to get it to work since Breezy. [07:29] Every time I upgrade I spend a few hours with it before giving up again. [07:30] what [07:30] HT works fine on Linux, what are you talking about ;( [07:32] It works on Linux, it doesn't work on my machine, for whatever reason. -smp kernel or non (well, obviously I stopped trying -smp kernels once we stopped making them) [07:32] Flannel: what cpu? [07:34] Pentium 4... something. It lists ht in its flags, I'd have to go find the paperwork. Unless there's some way to tell from cpuinfo (I didn't think family/model/etc were that unique) [07:35] some vibhav returns to quoting wikipedia at people as if it's his own [07:35] why will this kid not stop it [07:40] Flannel: model name is unique for me [07:40] though I'm on Core 2, not P4 [07:41] Flannel: odd. [07:42] popey: after spending a few days on it, I just gave up. It's a server anyway. [07:42] heh [07:47] ubuntu.com's back up. [07:47] my personal cloud is still got bigger. [07:52] is still "got bigger" ? [08:59] i'm going to guess that he doesn't like the phrasing of the statement [09:25] lolhelp [09:25] unity in kde? [09:26] bastard child of two unwanted desktops ;) [09:26] word === gryAway is now known as gry [20:02] hey guys [20:02] hey [20:02] qq about asking users to "google" stuff [20:02] ok [20:02] earlier, A user was asking about updating video drivers on Lucid and I said there was the xorg edgers update ppa [20:03] so the user requested a link, but i was doing a billion other things, so I advised they websearch it and they would find it [20:03] (I've been out of the channel for about 15 minutes, thanks to my isp - so I may need context) [20:03] oCean however thought this was bad and that tyelling users to try and help themselves a little was not to happen [20:03] despite me pretty much giving them the direction they needed [20:04] user also managed to find the ppa and add it ok [20:04] this comes up a fair bit, for me it's two parts [20:04] 1.) what they are asking and what their limitations are [20:04] 2.) how you tell them to google it [20:04] was it bad I told the user to try and use his own initiative - seeing how I had pretty much nailed the answer [20:04] I have no idea abou the specific example you're talking about, so just apply common sense [20:05] pushing the user in the right area for google if they obviously know what they are doing but are not quite there seems ok [20:05] limitations I can accept but I had given the thing they needed so they could find what I was on about and free me up to help others [20:05] teach a guy to fish etc [20:05] telling a user you've not got time to search for the page yourself but if they try the phrase Blah it normally comes up is "ok" [20:05] ocean was very blunt and said I was not to do it [20:06] but saying "just google it" doesn't [20:06] the fish tales a bit annoying to be honest [20:06] i never say that :) I like to give direction so users learn, rather than just handing out URLs [20:06] I think as long as you apply common sense to give help to suit that user, I don't see an issue [20:07] IMO it all depends on the ability of the user, if you can tell the user knows what they are doing and just needed a push in the right direction then yeah I think it is ok. [20:07] ocean said I should join here to discuss it, so I just wanted clarification and such [20:07] if a user has no idea what's going on and wants to know how to enable time travel in ubuntu, saying "google it" isn't helpful [20:07] getting them %90 of the way and offering a phrase for the remaining %10 as you're a bit busy is also reasonable [20:07] that's what I was getting at, but teh user immediately asked for a link, which I find pretty poor [20:07] I do feel your pain on that [20:08] i also informed the user the merit of finding ones own guides based on direction, rather than asking for handouts [20:08] that's not really useful [20:09] the user probably knew they can google, just couldn't be bothered [20:09] i'd have to agree [20:09] a lecture isn't going to help, if you think the users too lazy, don't help [20:09] but ocean said it was strictly to not happen ever, which I'd disagree with, hence me being here [20:10] maybe a wording issue ? maybe worth discussing with him personally [20:10] I don't know the history [20:10] but for me, just common sense, if your help actually helps the user or acts in the users best interest, I don't see an issue [20:13] http://pastebin.com/F2V3piBj [20:13] I am AndChat| helping Benb [20:14] there is stuff above asking about how to get newer stuff in Lucid as he wanted to keep LTS but get newer drivers to support his newer hardware [20:14] oh and add: [17:54] AndChat|: let me explain it this way: don't do it again [20:14] ActionParsnip, you came across as if you were snapping. you could've said "sorry i'm on my phone, have difficulty searching but it's easy to find on google" or something [20:14] I guess :( [20:14] I suggest you speak to ocean as I'm not getting involved in log quoting [20:15] hectic and stuff, but yeah coutesy and stuff [20:15] ok i'll see what I can do, but just wanted a second opinion [20:15] and that was the common sense bit I was suggesting earlier, just saying you didn't have time to google for them [20:15] ikonia: agreed [20:16] the 'don't do it agin' bit is not appropriate though [20:16] well, not if he's asking you to not do it again [20:17] again, don't know the context, but you seem pretty comfotable with it now ? [20:17] ActionParsnip: well i do suggest you discuss it with oCean, he's a reasonable guy [20:17] ikonia: oh yeah, I hust hate the whole handout url thing. [20:18] LjL: sometimes, not this time imho [20:18] I don't like it either. [20:18] thanks for your attention guys :) [20:18] ActionParsnip: best of both worlds, "the URL is http://blah/, by the way i found it by searching for 'foo bar' on google" [20:18] LjL: I guess but was on my phone which is dog slow on the web unless i'm on 3g :) [20:19] ActionParsnip: yeah i realize that, in that case it's fine not giving the URL, but i was saying the way you worded made it sound more like "meh, don't bother me and search for it yourself!" than "sorry, on phone and can't provide atm" [20:19] LjL: gotcha, will use that in future === IdleOne is now known as IknowNotUbuntu === IknowNotUbuntu is now known as IdleOne [21:18] ActionParsnip: if there is nothing else please /part [21:18] sure