[00:24] ScottK: ping [00:33] DarkwingDuck: pong [00:33] ScottK: Do we do any user metrics with downloads or, have the ability to do that with Kubuntu? [00:34] No. Popcon is the only data I know about. [00:35] And you have to be very careful not to assume it means more than it does. [00:35] Popcon? [00:36] Like Debian Popularity Contest? [00:36] * DarkwingDuck goes back to his thinking. [00:37] popcon.ubuntu.com I found it... But, nothing for distro... [00:37] DarkwingDuck: do you mean ISOs or packages? [00:37] Look at popcon for kubuntu-defaults [00:38] err [00:38] kubuntu-desktop [00:38] Yes, for the ISOs [00:38] Daskreech: ^^ [00:38] cdimages should have some stats but I'd suspect that is highly skewed by torrent downloads [00:39] Yeah, I was worried about that. [00:39] Since a lot of it's done through the mirrors, we don't have anything like complete data. [00:39] * DarkwingDuck ponders [00:39] pull the torrentfor kubuntu and at any point there are something like 300 seeds so the number of downloads are likely quite high from that source [00:40] Yeah, I'm trying to figure out another way to track the information. [00:40] What are you trying to get to? [00:40] Regional demographics. [00:40] If it's accuracy then that's probably not going to happen [00:40] It's a math thing that I'm going for. [00:40] the closest things I could think of are updates [00:41] I'm just trying to gather more accuate data then "best guess" === rickspencer3__ is now known as rickspencer3 [09:59] http://i.imgur.com/vW6WM.png as first start screen? [09:59] bulldog98_: shadeslayer: what do ye think? [09:59] mhhh my plasma exploded [09:59] awesome [10:00] or maybe just until initial disk cache has been obtained [10:00] which would get rid of the ugly start button [10:46] ScottK: Sysadmins agreed to flip the switch around release date. [10:46] ScottK: To be specific, they said "Hi, I'll set the ticket to remind us to update on release." [10:52] http://i.imgur.com/xGFkq.png [10:52] :D [10:52] http://i.imgur.com/TflUK.png [10:58] sweet [10:59] i used to like that look [11:00] http://i.imgur.com/vt6Y9.png [11:00] it is like well sexy [11:01] mh, gwenview, not so much [11:02] the splitter handles had been quite ugly. now i recall that. [11:03] * yofel_ likes the login screen though === yofel_ is now known as yofel [11:28] KDE 3 was ugly anyway [11:34] KRF: it least it didn't take 30000 years to start [11:34] actually this might all be nepomuk's fault to begin with [11:37] apachelogger: yeh, that's what i still miss somewhat nowadays :( [11:40] apachelogger says: back to the roots [11:46] hey all. I've just noticed that libqalculate has got some translations in the imports queue, and it seems to be because the package is not building a translation template. However, I've noticed that there are only very few translations, so I thought before filing a bug I'd ask. Is libqalculate a package that is being maintained and we want translations for? [12:05] apachelogger: uh, why should i press start if i already launched the app [12:08] my point exactly [12:15] supremacy is my name [12:20] apachelogger: what could be done is, show that page ( without the start button ) for half a second and then flip it [12:20] i.e. using the flip animation thingy [12:20] and show the schedule [12:21] in that 0.5 secounds you could start fetching data and everything [12:21] *seconds [12:22] fun fact, i got a 10 year US visa [12:22] shadeslayer: nah, what is the point of showing it for half a second [12:22] I got an all better concept [12:23] apachelogger: alright [12:23] apachelogger: sort of a 'Loading' screen [12:23] yeah, but there is no loading once we have a cache [12:23] sec [12:23] hmm [12:27] dpm: I do not think libqalculate is maintained by us [12:28] though it is used for some calculator stuff in KDE, not sure if that requires translations though [12:29] apachelogger, there are a few translations, though, but the fact that there were only 4 or 5 made me think it was suspicious. If it's not maintained by you guys, I'll just ignore the translations in the imports queue [12:29] well.... [12:29] seems someone broke pot creation [12:30] you mean in general? [12:30] up until maverick there was the following in the rules [12:30] $(RM) intltool-extract intltool-merge intltool-update \ [12:30] po-defs/.intltool-merge-cache [12:30] then it got synced from debian despite that, which probably is the reason there is no template [12:31] oh, I see, that makes sense re: why the translations end up in needs review. What would you suggest to do on this one? [12:32] not quite sure, we could re-add pot creation I suppose [12:33] * apachelogger is not quite sure why it got synced from debian [12:33] there was no sync request filed apparently [12:34] seem Riddell conducted the upload [12:34] Riddell: pingping [12:34] what what? [12:35] Riddell: libqalculate was synced from debian in natty, however that broke pot creation [12:35] now we have translations lingering in the import queue without template [12:36] so I should just add back the template creation? [12:38] would be best I suppose [12:38] unless you think it is not worthwhile having [12:38] if it makes sense to have those translations in Ubuntu, I think it would be best, too [12:38] there are only like 3 languages [12:38] yeah, that's the part that made me suspicious [12:42] there's nothing in maverick to make translation templates [12:46] ryanakca: Cool. [12:50] shadeslayer: http://people.ubuntu.com/~apachelogger/screencasts/uds-qml4.mp4 [12:50] shadeslayer: for initial caching there is the startup screen, after that it is instant as we have a local cache ready to go [12:51] ah cool [12:51] apacheloggther: that spinny thing is a gif? or something else? [12:52] dunno [12:52] part of the nokia components [12:52] probably a qml animation [12:53] ah ok [12:53] http://paste.ubuntu.com/702219/ [12:53] apachelogger: don't assume i understand QML :P [12:54] lol [12:54] it is a set of images loading into an image element animated using a numberanimation :P [12:54] frankly, i find QML weird [12:54] can't explain why, but i really find it weird to work with [12:55] probably you are not thinking declarative enough [12:55] probably [12:58] apachelogger: remember when people used to use this : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Nokia_3310_blue.jpg [12:58] life was so much easier :P [12:58] why yes [12:59] infact, i quite distinctly remember my first game of snake on that phone [12:59] why? did you score 202004055682? [13:00] nope, just a measly 30 [13:00] 30, ha! [13:00] I hope you are ashamed [13:00] i remember it because it was something really cool at that time :P [13:00] apachelogger: i got better at it! [13:01] are you saying snake is no cool nomore? [13:01] apachelogger: noth with all the fancy graphics coming out [13:01] interesting fact... phones have regressed so far you cannot even play a game as simple as snake anymore [13:01] hah, true [13:05] * apachelogger actually has a 3310 lying around here somewhere [13:07] i still have my first 1100 [13:07] can it run Qt? [13:07] nope [13:07] why not? [13:07] nokia didn't add support for Qt [13:08] * apachelogger waves fist [13:08] Qml debugging is enabled. Only use this in a safe environment! [13:08] zomg [13:10] apachelogger: kgetsource doesn't show the progress when its downloading the tar [13:12] apachelogger: also, we should use rsync now since ftpmaster supports rsync [13:13] why is that? [13:14] because it's better, mainly because it's useful for people on slow connections like me :P [13:14] why is it better? [13:15] because i've yet to see scp resuming copying of files [13:15] and something is eating my xevents [13:15] i can't click on anything anymore [13:15] qev to the rescue \o/ [13:16] keyboard works, i can move my mouse, no clicking [13:17] * apachelogger blames driver [13:17] * shadeslayer blames X [13:18] * apachelogger blames kde4 [13:18] kubuntu 5.04 is way more usable really [13:18] also faster [13:18] also sexier [13:18] hrrrr [13:18] agreed [13:18] http://i.imgur.com/TflUK.png [13:18] try getting such a well balanced appearnce with plasma [13:18] IMPOSSIBLE [13:19] and how simple theming used to be [13:19] * apachelogger sighs [13:19] trolllooll [13:19] i can move the sidebars in quassel [13:20] bbiab [13:20] I blame quassel then [13:22] yay, everything works after restarting quassel [13:22] not [13:22] Sput: quassel is eating my xevents :O [13:23] when i click the lineedit to chat in a IRC channel [13:24] http://www.developer.nokia.com/gen/videos_all.xhtml?id=19fe7953-cb03-4b95-abbd-585fdae1cb8b/Interview_LiveJournal_app [13:24] those finger nails are not touch enabled [13:25] send in the UX designers [13:31] [ 5300.596010] chrome[2084]: segfault at ffffffff95784d68 ip 00007f7b8ffa0c08 sp 00007fff508cecb0 error 4 in libX11.so.6.3.0[7f7b8ff6b000+133000] [13:31] thats ... no words for that [13:35] Quintasan_: I tried to call ProLine today, but they aren't answering [13:36] Quintasan_: I'll try email [13:42] wendar, Quintasan_: FWIW... if all else fails I can bring it from UDS to austria and ship it off to poland [13:48] apachelogger: i had a krazy idea, try out Kubuntu 5.04 on a tablety arm device ( or whatever was the first release to have ARM packages ) :P [14:11] shadeslayer: I do not think we ever had KDE 3 on arm [14:12] apachelogger: like i said, whatever was the first ARM release with KDE packages [14:12] but what would the point be? [14:13] for the lulz [14:13] fffffuuuuuuuuu [14:13] i thought i was in a screen and did c-a c-c [14:13] my kdepim build got terminated :/ [14:18] awwww [14:20] shadeslayer: did you get anywhere with ios stuff? [14:21] apachelogger: not yet, was looking at moc and stuff today and it'll take some time figuring out [14:22] apachelogger: it'll take some time before figuring it out correctly [14:22] huh? [14:22] why is that? [14:23] from what I understood there is not much to figure [14:23] because i have no idea how xcode works [14:23] just to moc ^^ [14:23] yeah, have to generate that too [14:24] If thats it, i can do that at college tomorrow, didn't get any time today, but tomorrow's schedule is completely empty [14:33] uhm [14:33] ryanakca: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/ARM looks weird [14:34] shadeslayer: ARM demand will go up a bit when windows 8 comes out [14:34] huh? [14:35] I thought it was already very high seeing the number of devices coming out [14:35] it can go up further? :O [14:35] ^^ [14:35] Windows 8 will have a arm build as well that's wy [14:37] so does windows phone 7 and yet it does not have considerable share of the produced units [14:58] [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kdepim] Rohan Garg * 178 * debian/ (changelog control) New upstream release [14:59] i pity the builder which has to build kdepim [15:04] why, shadeslayer? [15:04] is it a problematic build, or just inordinately huge? [15:04] BarkingFish: latter [15:04] my i7 core peaked at 86 oC and shut down X [15:05] holy [censored for the good of mankind]ing hell. My poor P4 Xeon would catch fire then. [15:05] hahah :D [15:06] * BarkingFish has the temptation to pull the lp source and have a go... [15:06] i find it weird that the i7 has a very low threshhold [15:07] my core2duo has a threshold of 100oC [15:07] https://gist.github.com/1261894 :P [15:08] the i7 shouldn't go to thermal shutdown until 100°C either, shadeslayer, according to google [15:08] Core 0: +51.0°C (high = +86.0°C, crit = +100.0°C) [15:08] BarkingFish: it definitely goes into shutdown at 100 [15:09] only some models have a critical thres of 110 [15:09] IIRC that is :P [15:09] yup, it clocks down everything at 86oC [15:09] shadeslayer: why would that shutdown X though? [15:09] Core 0: +82.0°C (high = +105.0°C, crit = +105.0°C) [15:09] thats on my core2duo ^^ [15:10] apachelogger: cores couldn't handle X at 500 MHz probably :P [15:10] shadeslayer: last time i tried one of those giant kde builds, my system ran out of disk space and killed the build [15:10] haha :D [15:10] shadeslayer: that is weird, X should cause almost no CPU load [15:10] apachelogger: huh, well, it's either X or kded [15:11] more likely latter :P [15:11] oh [15:11] my [15:11] good [15:11] socks [15:11] * apachelogger has a threading issue [15:11] because my X restarts and i land up in kdm [15:11] * apachelogger never has threading issues [15:11] * apachelogger doesn't like this one bit [15:11] hum [15:12] my secondary eventloop does not want to terminate [15:12] oddness [15:12] kill it with fire and semaphores ? :P [15:12] or starve it to death [15:12] ah [15:12] I think it is being smart [15:14] I never quite figured out the use of a 'Hyper Terminal' on a windows machine till today [15:14] what is that? [15:14] interfacing serially via RS232 :P [15:15] we interfaced with a 8051 microcontroller today [15:15] why would you do that on windows? [15:15] because thats what the computers in the lab run [15:15] * apachelogger begins to think that threading a qnetworkmanager is a bad idea [15:16] apachelogger: trying to optimize downloads are we now ? :P [15:16] no [15:16] that is one of the first things the uds app had [15:17] oh, so why do you thread qnm? [15:17] so that we do not block the UI [15:17] ah ok [15:17] it would probably not make much difference to hold the qnam in the main event loop and just do parsing et al in the thread [15:18] maco: i usually run out of space when i build stuff in tmpfs, but that's happened only once or twice with kde4libs or some giant package [15:19] and even thats going to change after i get myself some moar RAM [15:19] what is interesting though is that apparenlty I do not get a signal when the QNAM gets destroyed or something [15:19] 8 GB's of moar RAM that is [15:19] meaning I cannot even abort the event loop [15:19] apachelogger: you could emit one after destroying it [15:20] shadeslayer: this is why i upgraded to a 500gb hdd :P [15:20] I am not destorying it [15:20] hehehe :) [15:20] 8 GB's of RAM might be just enought to run nepomuk and strigi [15:20] this all happens at app quit [15:20] sorry about that, shadeslayer [15:20] bloody wifi is about as much use as the last ham sandwich at a jewish buffet :P [15:20] so the main event loop is stuck waiting for the threadpool to finish, but it cannot because the eventloop inside is blocked until the qnam returns [15:20] skfin: it's actually more about how big a file is in your home dir [15:21] apachelogger: aah [15:21] BarkingFish: lol [15:21] * apachelogger emits ponders [15:21] oh [15:21] skfin: for eg. nepomuk crashed when trying to index a ubuntu ISO, and spawned new child processes while indexing the ISO [15:21] I cannot [15:21] * apachelogger has no ponders [15:21] good lawd [15:21] anyway, as I said to you before I got so rudely disconnected by my wifi stick being a sod, the i7 series don't usually go into Thermal shutdown until 100°c either - the 2600K has a thermal warning limit of 90°c [15:22] http://paste.ubuntu.com/702295/ [15:22] shadeslayer: y u not add ponders? [15:22] shadeslayer: actually, I pity the builder that builds workspace more [15:22] after all we build that twice [15:22] lol [15:22] shadeslayer: U MAD? [15:22] true that [15:22] skfin: hahaha :D ... it actually consumed all 8 cores before i noticed [15:23] and then i turned indexing off [15:23] nepomuk++ [15:23] strigi++ [15:23] shadeslayer: and you can add my poor server to that, for some reason I did the workspace build on it and it was hopelessly swapping at the end ... [15:23] Thats more like it, nepomuk! [15:23] there is nothing like good software [15:23] i might go again, i'm pulling kdepim's source to have a shot at seeing if I can destroy my PC! [15:23] shouldn't be too hard [15:24] ~karma nepomuk [15:24] karma for nepomuk: 1 [15:24] apachelogger: Yea, either the code is crap or the user experience is crap. In some cases both are crap [15:24] skfin: read trueg's blog lately? [15:24] I agree [15:25] if nepomuk had prn enablement it would be way better [15:25] shadeslayer: I red that they are fixing the most annoying issues [15:25] yus [15:26] But my coffee 'aint crap. User experience is great and I guess that the code can't be crap since there aren't any [15:26] skfin: so i guess we can hope for a better experience in 4.8 or KDE 5 [15:26] shadeslayer: Uhmm, yes. I really hope so :) [15:27] Nepomuk, strigi and akonadi would be awesome without those performance issues [15:27] skfin: have you see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d41bmTSogA4 [15:27] And with less memory hogging [15:27] And cpu time hogging [15:27] QThread: Destroyed while thread is still running [15:27] hrrhrr [15:27] And less cpu time hogging* [15:27] And less disk i/o hogging [15:28] shadeslayer: UHHH! That's AWEESOOOOOMEEEEEEEEEE [15:28] :D [15:28] skfin: now add that to dolphin's search or to krunner [15:28] BOOM [15:29] skfin: and you know what .... it's just indexing subtitles :D [15:29] Blah [15:29] just what I need [15:29] search your prn [15:29] Not so awsome :/ [15:29] hahaha [15:29] "uhh" "ahh" "ewwwww" [15:29] that will result in kinky prn [15:29] \o/ [15:29] apachelogger's prn day? [15:30] every day is prn day [15:30] Uploading kdepim_4.7.2-0ubuntu1~ppa1_source.changes: 5k/6k550 Changes file must be signed with a valid GPG signature: Verification failed 3 times: ['General error', 'General error', 'General error'] : Permission denied. [15:30] what [15:30] ah, that's why kubuntu has so much packaging issues? [15:30] * skfin hides. [15:31] they're not issues, they're features [15:31] Ah, yes [15:31] ;) [15:31] that error is actually a launchpad feature [15:32] One at #kubuntu-fi had some issues with oneiric installion, fresh installion + installing upgrades = libc disappeared somehow [15:32] That was strange [15:32] yofel: i guess thats the first feature i've seen in a while then :P [15:32] * yofel tries to remove libc6 [15:32] * shadeslayer hides [15:32] And neither apt or dpkg logs didnt help, only reference to libc was when dpkg removed it. There was no clear reason why [15:33] To continue type in the phrase 'Yes, do as I say!' [15:33] whoa [15:33] ScottK: after further checking, I can't see what I could change to help with ad-hoc on Kubuntu. everything seems in order, since you don't actual have a way to immediately defaut to the settings for ad-hoc/shared internet connection, one would just create a connection manually (and ipv6 already defaults to Disabled there) [15:33] skfin: considering aptitude marks 175 packages as broken if I remove libc6 - that should've been somewhat impossible... [15:33] cyphermox: OK. Thanks for investigating. [15:34] yofel: Yes, and it didnt really say that why it did remove it [15:34] same with apt, it wants me to explicitly confirm removing libc6 [15:34] funny [15:34] And it didnt remove any other packages, just libc6 [15:34] now I would like to know though why libc6 isn't 'essential' [15:34] np. afaik it's all good, I even tested on a livecd and successfully created a WPA ad-hoc network, which used to not work. [15:35] http://pastebin.com/RUdRJEz4 [15:35] hm, it's actually required [15:35] http://pastebin.com/sgQH4xST [15:35] http://pastebin.com/V5ydX4SP [15:36] ah [15:36] shadeslayer: uh... did you forget the launchapd feature that makes bzr-git behave differently on launchpad than it behaves on jelmer's PC? [15:36] yofel: hah, thats feature 0 then :P [15:36] ^^ [15:36] skfin: i *think* its because of multiarch [15:36] Remove: libc-bin:amd64 (2.13-20ubuntu2) [15:36] Yes? [15:37] Well it was amd64 installion [15:37] issue fixed \o/ [15:37] and in install : libc-bin:i386 [15:37] oh yeah, aptitude *does* want to remove libc6 if you have conflicts and multiarch enabled [15:37] ^^ [15:37] that should only be aptitude by now though [15:37] shadeslayer: the code just got loads more ugly [15:37] to the bug mobile [15:37] So that I don't waste bandwidth, is it worth updating to 4.7.1 or waiting for 4.7.2? [15:37] apachelogger: :S [15:38] yofel: There is no aptitude on that system though... [15:38] GirlyGirl: uh, kind of hard to answer that question, is there a particular bug that is annoying you right now and you know is fixed in 4.7.1 [15:38] skfin: what did he use actually? [15:38] *she* used apt-get as the logs say [15:38] sry [15:38] Logs dont say the command [15:38] shadeslayer: I don't know whether it is fixed but there is one [15:38] Commandline: apt-get install chromium-browser [15:39] ^^ looks like she tried to install chromium-browser [15:39] GirlyGirl: do you have the bug id? [15:39] ah wait, thats a different thing [15:39] shadeslayer: see that there is log close after installing chroimium-browser [15:40] skfin: yofel looks like she tried to upgrade imho [15:40] Yea. [15:40] shadeslayer: Never even reported it but plasma crashes every now and then and when it restarts the panel colours are messed up a bit [15:40] But why it did remove libc-bin:amd64 is a myster [15:40] y [15:40] for me [15:40] GirlyGirl: hmm ... can't really say without a bug id, you're on oneiric right? [15:41] shadeslayer: One one machine yes on others no [15:41] for me too, unless someone retries that exact situation with apt Debug::pkgProblemResolver set to yes [15:42] GirlyGirl: then for oneiric, i would say that you can wait till 4.7.2 gets packaged, 4.7.2 for natty is going to take some time [15:46] btw. just curious: as we seem to be notoriously bad at remembering to upload kubuntu-dev-tools. Does someone have an idea where we could put a daily build of that? [15:46] shadeslayer: https://projects.developer.nokia.com/uds/browser/src/RemoteManager.cpp#L105 [15:46] you know [15:47] I really thin someone should refactor my remotemanager [15:47] because even I get the feeling that it is somewhat unreadable [15:51] apachelogger: looks nice [15:51] [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kanagram] Rohan Garg * 12 * debian/ (changelog control) New upstream release === bulldog98_ is now known as bulldog98 [15:51] ok something that i've not understood till this date [15:51] apachelogger: whats the difference between : #include and #include [15:52] is it just a more verbose way of including headers? [15:52] nah [15:53] it allows compilation with restrictive include paths [15:53] thus speeding up building [15:53] i.e. one -I/usr/include/qt4 suffices to build everything [15:53] shadeslayer: http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Kdelibs_Coding_Style#Qt_Includes [15:54] apachelogger: eh, i wouldnt say this speeds up building [15:54] interesting [15:54] KRF: if yer compiler has to run through a bazillion include paths before getting to the one that contains QDebug it certainly does [15:55] not using it adds a minimum cost of searching the right include file through some subdirectories (which is cached anyway) [15:55] not sure you'll notice it at all :) [15:55]