[00:08] <infinity> Stupid queue timeouts.  Didn't notice that my ubiquity accept failed.
[00:16] <stgraber> ubiquity ftbfs on arm, reason is "gcc not found", interesting...
[00:17] <stgraber> any known issue on the armel builders? :)
[00:17] <infinity> Hrm?
[00:17]  * infinity looks.
[00:18] <stgraber> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/81861398/buildlog_ubuntu-oneiric-armel.ubiquity_2.8.2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[00:18] <infinity> I see nothing about GCC not found...
[00:18] <infinity> The following packages have unmet dependencies: gnome-icon-theme : Depends: libgtk-3-bin but it is not going to be installed
[00:18] <infinity> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
[00:18] <infinity> ^--- Archive skew.
[00:18] <infinity> Read the bottom of logs, not the top? :)
[00:19] <infinity> "sh: gcc: not found" is dpkg-architecture running in the base system, where there shouldn't be gcc.
[00:19] <stgraber> yeah, I guess I'm too used to skip the bottom because of the 10 pages of package removal :)
[00:19] <infinity> Every build log shows that.  We should just shut it up. :P
[00:20] <infinity> When GTK+3.0 finally finished building, I'll retry ubiquity.
[00:20] <infinity> finishes*
[01:32] <slangasek> infinity: shut it up> yes please :)
[04:15] <pitti> Good morning
[04:15] <pitti> slangasek: 854622> I thought mvo reproduced it with a natty install and oneiric upgrade
[04:15] <pitti> slangasek: anyway, seems you found the reason at last? I saw mvo's upload
[04:20] <slangasek> pitti: we never pinned down the exact source of the bug, but that's immaterial; we still need the oneiric package to fix up the wrong symlink, whenever it is that it broke
[05:05] <pitti> infinity: I just released a new media-player-info with lots of new devices; this has a standing SRU exception as well, and is rather harmless
[05:05] <pitti> infinity: do you mind if I upload it for oneiric now?
[05:05] <pitti> or do you prefer an SRU at this point?
[05:06] <pitti> infinity: it contains textual info about mp3 usb sticks to tell music players about their name, format, directory for music, etc.
[05:07] <ScottK> pitti: I'd say upload it.
[05:07] <pitti> done
[05:08] <infinity> pitti: Yeah, just upload it.
[05:11] <pitti> the bash-completion upload got a debian-changes-1:1.3-1ubuntu5 which reverts one of the patches
[05:11] <pitti> I'll reject and tell bryce
[05:11] <infinity> Yep.
[05:11] <infinity> I was just about to. :P
[05:13]  * pitti looks at libvirt, finds that it's way over his head, and leaves review to Daviey
[05:13] <infinity> Hahaha.
[05:13] <infinity> Why do you think it's still in the queue? :)
[05:13] <infinity> I was too tired to do it justice.
[05:14] <infinity> pitti: Oh, want to stage an apport upload to go with that kerneloops one?
[05:14] <infinity> pitti: Or planning to just do it on RC day?
[05:15] <pitti> infinity: it's in the release process documentation for final; I was planning to upload it on Friday right after RC
[05:15] <pitti> together with the final langpacks, etc.
[05:15] <infinity> Mmkay.
[05:15] <infinity> Maybe we should add kerneloops to that same documentation.
[05:15] <pitti> it is
[05:15] <infinity> Heh.
[05:15] <infinity> So someone just got excited? :)
[05:16] <pitti> or do you prefer an SRU at this point?https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseProcess , minus 7 days
[05:16] <pitti> infinity: apparently so :)
[05:17] <infinity> "Top up the CDs with language packs" <--- I like how that assumes we even have room anymore.
[05:18] <pitti> infinity: we can still fit another Xhosa
[05:18] <pitti> infinity: oh, there totally is space for Klingon!
[05:18] <infinity> *smirk*
[05:18] <pitti> Ubuntu for Human^Wwarrior beings
[05:18] <pitti> erk, put a "Linux" there
[05:20] <ScottK> No media-player-info diff yet and I'm off to bed, so I'll look at it in the morning if infinity didn't mash the "I believe" button already.
[05:20] <ScottK> Good night.
[05:32] <pitti> infinity: apt looks ok, but please reupload with a reference to bug 865828 in the changelog
[05:32] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 865828 in apt (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "Backport apt-ftparchive Packages/Translations split code to lucid (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/865828
[05:33] <infinity> pitti: Err, doesn't it have one?
[05:33] <pitti> nope
[05:33] <infinity> Oh, bah.  I uploaded the wrong copy after I updated the changelog.
[05:33] <infinity> Reject away.
[05:34] <pitti> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/81876688/apt_0.7.25.3ubuntu9.8_source.changes
[05:35] <infinity> pitti: Reuploaded.
[05:35] <pitti> cheers
[05:37] <infinity> pitti: If you kept the old one, you can verify that this only changes the changelog (and the PO timestamps...)
[05:38] <infinity> Silly build system.
[05:38] <pitti> yeah, merging po files on clean is kinda evil, and rather pointless
[05:38] <infinity> It also rebuilds configure.
[05:39] <infinity> But at least that doesn't introduce changes if your autotools don't change.
[05:39] <infinity> (But you can tell if someone uploaded apt from another release)
[05:41] <infinity> pitti: And in the queue again.
[05:41] <pitti> thanks, will get to it as soon as the diff arrives
[05:41]  * pitti pokes some other SRUs in the meantime
[05:51] <pitti> infinity: accepted, thanks!
[05:51] <infinity> pitti: Danke.
[09:51]  * tumbleweed has been using ubuntu mono in gnome-terminal for a day, and it's not growing on me yet. bug 866058 is the most annoying problem
[09:51] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 866058 in ubuntu-font-family-sources (Ubuntu) "Mono: 'm' too wide at 11pt (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/866058
[09:54] <Laney> does "Ubuntu Mono 13" mean 13pt?
[09:56] <tumbleweed> probably ppem (pixels per em), but I'm not a font person :)
[09:58] <Laney> dunno, and anyway it's been sabdfled so no matter :-)
[10:19] <Daviey> Hmm, Are we having a RC this time?  I thought we were not, but it seems to be on the schedule.
[10:20] <pitti> Daviey: it's for testing/QA, but we won't put it on releases.u.c./announce it
[10:21] <Daviey> ok, thanks
[10:43] <cjwatson> anyone have opinions on bug 862920, especially bug 861206?
[10:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 862920 in ubuntu "[FFe] Multiple input method related updates (affects: 1) (heat: 10)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/862920
[10:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 861206 in fcitx (Ubuntu) "Please sync fcitx (1:4.1.1) from Sid to universe (affects: 1) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861206
[10:44] <cjwatson> I've found a problem with bug 861204 that needs to be fixed, but am wondering about the rest of it
[10:44] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 861204 in sunpinyin (Ubuntu) "Please sync sunpinyin (2.0.3-4) from Sid to universe (affects: 1) (heat: 12)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861204
[10:45] <cjwatson> I'm inclined to say that it's OK as long as the new input methods aren't used by default in Oneiric
[10:45] <pitti> the sunpinyin syncs seem appropriate to me (impact wise, modulo the debian/rules bug you uncovered); I'm less enthusiastic about the others, though
[10:46] <pitti> googlepinyin sounds interesting for the future, as it's a lot smaller
[10:46] <cjwatson> it seems like a moderate amount of work to cram in at this point ...
[10:47] <cjwatson> I really can't say e.g. whether Chinese users are better served by having this but potentially having it be buggy, or having just the older methods
[10:47] <pitti> seems we don't pull in fcitx for any language right now
[10:47] <pitti> so it's low-risk; but just like you I have zero ideas whether it's an improvement/stable :(
[10:52] <cjwatson> the new packages aren't especially risky if not used by default
[10:52] <cjwatson> well, I'll wait a while to see if anyone else has thoughts
[10:53] <pitti> right, we don't; I'm just not sure how much they actually got tested under oneiric (as opposed to under sid)
[10:59] <cjwatson> yeah
[11:11] <jamespage> please could nova  2011.3-0ubuntu5 be accepted - closes bug 865169 and completes bug 832507 (incorrect patch uploaded with -0ubuntu4)
[11:11] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 865169 in nova (Ubuntu) "nova-common postinst fails to complete for new installations (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/865169
[11:11] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 832507 in nova (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "console.log grows indefinitely (affects: 3) (heat: 262)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/832507
[11:15] <cjwatson> Laney: new comments on bug 831402, and it came up on -devel-discuss as well
[11:15] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 831402 in dlr-languages (Ubuntu Oneiric) (and 1 other project) "dlr-languages version 20090805+git.e6b28d27+dfsg-3 failed to build in oneiric (affects: 2) (heat: 16)" [High,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/831402
[11:21] <pitti> eek, langpack spam from cronjob
[11:21] <pitti> we'll get fresh ones on Friday, but dpm asked for another set of update packages for translators
[11:21]  * pitti accepts
[11:31] <pitti> Daviey: can you please have a look at the libvirt upload in unapproved?
[11:42] <Daviey> pitti: wilco
[11:48] <Daviey> pitti: I need to speak with hallyn when he is online, i knew something was coming; but it's much larger than i hoped.  Will comment later.
[12:07] <Laney> cjwatson: yeah, we know that git head works, the problem is DFSGing it suitably
[12:09] <cjwatson> Laney: patches aren't extractable?
[12:10] <Laney> I'm sure they are, given enough effort, but I'd be inclined to package a snapshot (maybe not for O though)
[12:11] <Laney> but I personally don't know too much about iron*; cmn was the guy in the team who worked on this package most recently but has ran out of time/motivation sadly
[12:13] <Laney> (our current snapshot is pretty old)
[12:17] <doko> Laney, is this dlr-languages? the get-orig-source target does have the dfsg cleaning stuff
[12:18] <Laney> yes, but it's not entirely up-to-date
[12:18] <Laney> I am confident that it's possible to get a new snapshot packaged, the problem is that nobody has volunteered to do it.
[12:22] <Laney> commented
[12:23] <doko> so much for my plan to have an upload-free week ...
[12:35] <doko> please review openjdk-6 (ARM/JamVM specific fix)
[12:43] <pitti> doko: will do, just waiting for the debdiff to appear
[12:43]  * pitti removes eclipse-plugin-cvs to clean up NBS, eclipse-jdt just suggests it
[12:44] <cjwatson> openssl could use a second pair of eyes
[13:13] <pitti> cjwatson: looks fine, accepting
[13:15] <cjwatson> thanks
[13:25] <doko> Daviey, cobbler-enlist needs seeding
[13:26]  * sladen grumps at the steam-rollers
[13:59] <mdeslaur> ^ openssl upload there is to correct a slight issue with previous upload, as discussed with cjwatson
[14:14] <ScottK> Laney: Technically I don't think ubuntu-mono was SABDFL'ed.  He said please and pitti said OK.
[14:15] <ogra_> real SABDFL'ing means to be unpolite ?
[14:15] <ogra_> :)
[14:16] <ScottK> No, it means to direct.
[14:20] <pitti> well, I said the patch was ok under the conditions
[14:21] <pitti> if we need to swallow this thing, then let's at least not break all derivatives
[14:27] <cjwatson> bug 848916 - er, doesn't this require an FFE?
[14:27] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 848916 in webkitkde (Ubuntu) "Sync webkitkde 1.1.0git80efcf77-1 (universe) from Debian experimental (main) (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/848916
[14:28] <utlemming> skaet: could you add http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/oneiric/20111004/ to the tracker for the Ubuntu Cloud Images?
[14:28] <cjwatson> bit early for iso tracker stuff isn't it?
[14:28] <utlemming> cjwatson: isn't the RC on Thursday?
[14:30] <cjwatson> no images are being released on Thursday; that's when we prepare a candidate for the release next Thursday
[14:30] <skaet> utlemming, we'll be doing a release candidate like we did on Natty, rather than the full production.
[14:31] <utlemming> okay, thanks for the clarification. This is my first time through a release cycle. :)
[14:33] <skaet> utlemming,  np.  Glad you have them ready.   We'll start posting on Thurs/Friday depending when the langpacks land.
[14:34] <highvoltage> Yay, my french lesson for friday got cancelled so I can actually make a release meeting.
[14:35] <ogra_> highvoltage, i bet we'll skip this week then :P
[14:36] <highvoltage> hmm, that's what happened the last time I had a Friday open :-/
[14:38] <skaet> highvoltage, ogra_ - release meeting is still planned for this friday.  ;)
[14:38]  * skaet figures it will be the last until after UDS.  :)
[14:39] <skaet> ev,  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/740903,  I'm seeing it milestoned for 11.10, but also marked as Won't Fix for oneiric - what's the plan with this one?
[14:39] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 740903 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Oneiric) (and 2 other projects) "return_to_partitioning fails when the replace option fails (affects: 6) (heat: 28)" [High,Won't fix]
[14:39] <cjwatson> looks like unhelpful LP semantics
[14:40] <skaet> very unhelpful semantics. :P
[14:40] <ev> skaet: it's quite the edge case
[14:40] <ev> if you even saw that bug in the first place, you'd have another bug :)
[14:40] <cjwatson> what I mean is that when you mark a release task won't fix it doesn't clear the milestone when reinstating the default-series task
[14:41] <Laney> ScottK: maybe technically not, but it seemed to be effectively so.
[14:41] <ev> skaet: I've kept it open to keep an eye on return_to_partitioning which has sometimes not worked exactly as designed
[14:41] <Laney> but never mind.
[14:41] <ev> skaet: it's a problem solved by test coverage, really.
[14:42] <skaet> ev,  ok, if I target it to "P" so it keeps open, and remove the milestone so it stops showing up on the release critical bug list?
[14:42] <ev> absolutely
[14:43] <skaet> ev, done.
[14:44] <ev> fanx!
[14:45] <cjwatson> I've removed the 11.04 milestone too, which is obviously nonsensical at this point
[15:09] <skaet> ScottK,  are you still trying to get bug 793679 fixed this week?  or is it going to be release noted?
[15:09] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 793679 in kdeadmin (Ubuntu Oneiric) (and 1 other project) "systemsettings crashed with ImportError in /usr/share/kde4/apps/system-config-printer-kde/options.py: No module named ppdippstr (affects: 7) (dups: 6) (heat: 53)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/793679
[15:12]  * ScottK looks.
[15:27]  * doko rejects python2.7, patching a generated file
[15:41] <bdmurray> Is kerneloops still held in the queue?
[15:46] <skaet> bdmurray,  yes
[15:47] <bdmurray> okay could it be approved / let through?
[15:51] <ScottK> skaet: I think I can fix it.
[15:51] <skaet> ScottK, goodness.
[15:54] <skaet> bdmurray, there was some discussion on the timing of it applying, but I'll need to look up details, unless someone else remembers?
[15:54] <skaet> cjwatson, infinity, ScottK, ^
[15:54] <ScottK> I thought it wasn't until we started doing RC images (i.e. Friday or later)
[15:55] <ScottK> I may misremember though
[15:55] <cjwatson> I suspect it's probably OK around nowish
[15:55]  * ScottK doesn't have a real opinion on it.
[15:55] <cjwatson> I think we'll be starting with RC images around Thursday?
[15:55] <skaet> yes,  as soon as the langpacks land.
[16:00] <Daviey> doko: Yeah, i really only cared for the -udeb to be in main.. but we are supporting it anyway, so i'll add it.
[16:00] <doko> Daviey, thanks
[16:12] <doko> skaet, is there a reason to open a task for the p-series in bug 853688?
[16:12] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 853688 in eglibc (Ubuntu P-series) (and 5 other projects) "Natty to Oneiric - failed to calculate the upgrade with gcj-4.4-jre installed (affects: 19) (dups: 8) (heat: 104)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/853688
[16:14] <skaet> doko,  did it since command-not-found isn't likely to get fixed until updates.   eglibc part should have been marked with same status as Oneiric.
[16:15] <doko> skaet, ok, did set it to invalid
[16:15] <skaet> thanks doko.
[16:24] <slangasek> cjwatson, bdmurray: do we need an apport upload that matches the kerneloops one?
[16:24] <slangasek> or is it still early for that?
[16:40] <Daviey> Please can libvirt be accepted, it resolves an LXC race.  Whilst the patch could have been smaller, we favoured upstream cherrypicking over distro patches.  It's received testing, and passed the platform qa regression testsuite.  It really only impacts LXC, and seems good.  Thanks.
[16:41] <doko> seb128, pitti: do you intend to address the libgnomeprintui ftbfs? please either fix it directly, or find another gnome/gtk lib which did move libs to private libs after the FF
[16:50] <jdstrand> re libvirt> fyi, the qrt tests don't have lxc tests in it, but the build tests do. if it passes qrt, then it should not break non-lxc badly
[16:59] <Daviey> jdstrand: thanks
[17:02] <micahg> Daviey: libvirt affects a lot more than lxc, but I would go with whatever jdstrand says about it :)
[17:03] <jdstrand> note, I did not test the LXC bits. I am just vouching for qrt and the in-build tests being thorough
[17:04] <ScottK> skaet: Uploaded.
[17:05] <Laney> singularity can be accepted
[17:05] <skaet> thanks Laney,  doing
[17:16] <seb128> doko, pitti: I've not special interest to fix GNOME lib deprecated for years in Universe, that comes after issues in the default installation my list, but I can have a look if I run out of other things to do
[17:16] <seb128> re. libgnomeprintui
[17:21] <skaet> seb128,  could I ask you to review the latest unity upload?   I think that pitti's off for the night, and would like to get it into the builds.
[17:21] <skaet> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/81934511/unity_4.20.0-0ubuntu2_4.22.0-0ubuntu1.diff.gz
[17:21] <seb128> skaet, ok, I can do that ;-)
[17:21] <seb128> looking
[17:23] <skaet> thanks! :)
[17:30] <seb128> ups
[17:30] <seb128> sorry flacky wifi
[17:30] <seb128> skaet, seems fine to me, we got a pre-version in the ubuntu-desktop ppa yesterday which got testing by a few people
[17:31] <skaet> thanks seb128,  accepting it then.
[17:31] <seb128> that's a small update over what we tested with small fixed and I know didrocks tested before uploading
[17:31] <seb128> skaet, thanks
[17:32] <seb128> skaet, if you could ack the few GNOME updates as well that would be welcome
[17:32] <seb128> they should be easier to review than unity ;-)
[17:33] <skaet> seb128,  will take a pass, and ack the ones I feel I understand. ;)
[17:34] <seb128> skaet, thanks
[17:36]  * skaet seems to be getting timeout errors from launchpad :P
[17:37] <skaet> hmmph,   seems to be an issue accepting unity.
[17:38] <skaet> slangasek, could you see if launchpad will cooperate for you with accepting unity?
[17:39] <slangasek> skaet: it's reviewed and just needs an accept?
[17:39] <skaet> slangasek,  seb128 ok'd it,  and launchpad just keeps timing out on me.
[17:40]  * slangasek goes behind the web interface's back
[17:44] <ScottK> pitti: Could you review kdeadmin.  I uploaded it, so I can't ...
[17:45] <skaet> seb128, am a bit concerned about the gnome-control-center one,  since it seems to be impacting user interface a bit - bug 862027,  would rather pitti ok it.
[17:45] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 862027 in ubuntu-mono (Ubuntu Oneiric) (and 1 other project) "System Settings Keyboard icon indistinct with Ambiance (affects: 2) (heat: 22)" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/862027
[17:46] <skaet> s/ok/comment on/
[17:46] <doko> please review eglibc, just makes all the packages depending on libgcj10 and libgnat installable again
[17:47] <doko> please review python2.7, linking the _curses extension against libncursesw
[17:49] <seb128> skaet, ok, works for me, that one doesn't need lot of testing and isn't that important, let's see what pitti says about it
[18:11] <jdstrand> skaet: I would like to do an apparmor upload that only fixes a test suite problem. this will help with SRUs, etc in the future. ok to upload?
[18:11] <ScottK> jdstrand: Sounds good.
[18:11] <jdstrand> cool
[18:12] <jdstrand> it'll be a bit, but I'll get it in soon
[18:35] <skaet> jdstrand, +1 from me as well.
[18:36] <seb128> the ubuntuone-client-gnome update fixes the broken version that landed yesterday and makes nautilus segfault for a lot of users
[18:36] <seb128> review would be appreciated for it ;-)
[18:38] <jdstrand> skaet: cool, thanks
[18:49] <seb128> thanks
[18:51]  * skaet --> lunch
[19:11] <infinity> doko: I'm thinking that stray patch in eglibc was unintentional.
[19:11] <infinity> doko: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/81935897/eglibc_2.13-20ubuntu4_2.13-20ubuntu5.diff.gz
[19:11] <infinity> doko: Everything past debian/control is suspect, really. :P
[19:15] <ScottK> infinity: Would you please look at kdeadmin?
[19:25] <doko> infinity, ahh, the diff of the previous upload that I committed. will remove. the other changes are ok
[19:25] <doko> at least, intended
[19:27] <doko> rejected and re-uploaded
[19:31] <infinity> ScottK: As a minor nitpick, you might want to remove that stray trailing newline from kdeadmin-4.7.1/debian/system-config-printer-kde.links in your VCS. ;)
[19:31] <infinity> ScottK: (Obviously not a bug, accepting)
[19:31] <ScottK> OK.
[19:32] <jdstrand> skaet, ScottK: apparmor uploaded
[19:32] <jdstrand> thanks again
[19:33] <ScottK> infinity: Done.  Thanks.
[19:37] <infinity> seb128: Regarding bug#865957, what's the point in recommending a universe package?  It won't get pulled in on a fresh install.
[19:38] <ScottK> apparmor accepted.
[19:38] <infinity> Well, except on the images that build with universe on by default. :P
[19:38] <jdstrand> \o/
[19:38] <ScottK> Recommending Universe from Main isn't allowed though.
[19:39] <infinity> ScottK: Actually flat-out not allowed?  When was that decree passed?
[19:39] <infinity> (Just to avoid the above confusion in behaviour, I assume?)
[19:39] <ScottK> Same time we started installing recommends by default.
[19:40] <ScottK> Main has to be transitively closed.  With installing recommends by default that means Main can't Recommend Universe.
[19:40] <infinity> Well, missing recommends are still ignored with install-by-default, surely.
[19:41] <infinity> But I agree that from a consistency standpoint it's bad to recommend across components like that.
[19:41] <ScottK> Yes.  It will work.
[19:41] <ScottK> So there won't be an earth shattering kaboom, but it's not in line with how it's supposed to work.
[19:42] <ScottK> It'll show up in component mismatches and doko will come get you.
[19:42] <infinity> Policy or not, it's wrong to me anyway.
[19:45] <seb128> infinity, it's a binary of a source in main so I guess it will be promoted once it's on component-mismatch? ;-)
[19:46] <infinity> seb128: See #distro.
[19:46] <seb128> infinity, it's a a few kb binary and pitti acked to get it on the CD today
[19:46] <infinity> seb128: Oh, someone could have mentioned this conversation. :P
[19:47] <infinity> seb128: (Which I don't see...)
[19:47] <seb128> infinity, it was on #ubuntu-desktop this afternoon
[19:47] <seb128> infinity,
[19:47] <seb128> [13:47] <seb128> or any reason to not install it?
[19:47] <seb128> [13:47] <pitti> seb128: nothing depends on it
[19:47] <seb128> [13:47] <seb128> pitti, would it be fine to make g-c-c recommends it?
[19:47] <seb128> [13:47] <pitti> no other particular reason from what I can see
[19:47] <seb128> [13:47] <pitti> it's 30 kB
[19:48] <seb128> [13:47] <pitti> seb128: sure
[19:48] <seb128> infinity, basically
[19:56] <stgraber> ScottK: can you accept librecad? apparently queuebot didn't see it (probably because it's a sync?)
[19:56]  * ScottK looks
[19:56] <slangasek> see, this is why #ubuntu-desktop should just be #ubuntu-devel :)
[19:57] <seb128> slangasek, you wouldn't like #ubuntu-desktop to be on #ubuntu-devel
[19:57] <ScottK> stgraber: Done.
[19:57] <stgraber> ScottK: thanks
[19:57] <kenvandine> queuebot would have missed intltool too then
[19:57] <ScottK> It did.
[19:57] <seb128> slangasek, I think #ubuntu-desktop is quite chatty and noisy
[19:57] <slangasek> seb128: yes I would :)
[19:58] <seb128> slangasek, well maybe you would but others probably wouldn't ;-)
[19:58] <infinity> I wouldn't mind.
[19:58] <slangasek> oh well, who cares about them ;)
[19:58] <seb128> lol
[19:58] <stgraber> quite a lot of us are in both anyway, might as well merge them :)
[19:58] <seb128> well, sometime #ubuntu-desktop is too chatty for desktopers, i.e the number of cross conversations are hard to follow
[19:58] <infinity> desktop bugs affect most developers, being able to jump in on those discussions without being in Yet Another Channel wouldn't hurt my feelings. :P
[19:59] <seb128> not sure we could have one channel and still keep it usable
[19:59]  * infinity joins desktop anyway.
[19:59] <kenvandine> desktop is fun!
[19:59] <kenvandine> :)
[20:00] <infinity> siretart's going to hate me.
[20:00] <infinity> Two rejects in a row for the same package.
[20:00] <slangasek> honestly, my concern is that the development discussions are off in a separate channel which just ends up with duplicated / uncoordinated effort (like above)
[20:00] <doko> one more person, does it make a difference ;-)
[20:01] <doko> yes, same for -server
[20:01] <slangasek> yep
[20:01] <seb128> slangasek, realistically there is too much happening in Ubuntu to channel it on one channel and keep it usable
[20:01] <slangasek> I am unconvinced :)
[20:02] <infinity> Maybe.  But desktop stuff is so core to what everyone does.
[20:02] <seb128> there is also a part of those teams which have interest in the specific part the channel is about and probably wouldn't join discussion on #ubuntu-devel
[20:02] <infinity> It's not quite like -installer, where 99% of the developers don't understand or care.
[20:02] <seb128> like we are quite friendly chatty there
[20:02] <doko> realistically, I don't want to first chase down the channel, and the person
[20:02] <seb128> not sure I would feel right having those random jokes and chats on #ubuntu-devel
[20:02] <doko> just address it one one channel
[20:02] <infinity> seb128: We joke randomly on -devel too.  You should visit sometime. :)
[20:02] <seb128> lol
[20:04] <seb128> doko, nobody ask you to chase desktop people down ;-)
[20:05] <slangasek> yes, you should set traps and wait for them to come to you
[20:05] <slangasek> just, say, delete libnss - you'll catch them easily
[20:06] <infinity> I like the way you think.
[20:06] <doko> slangasek, that did prove to work ;-P
[20:06] <slangasek> :-)
[20:07] <infinity> doko: After doing such thing, though, you need to go hide in #ubuntu-undiscoverable, chat with yourself, and wait for them to show up.
[20:07] <infinity> s/thing/things/
[20:07] <doko> infinity, that's called #ubuntu-toolchain
[20:07] <infinity> Oh, fair point.  I don't think I rejoined that after coming back.
[20:07] <infinity> Nor #ubuntu-server.
[20:07] <seb128> see, it's not only -desktop :p
[20:07] <infinity> I haven't really missed either.
[20:08] <doko> there is no #ubuntu-foundations
[20:08] <infinity> seb128: I don't know his it is today, maybe people actually use it, but back in The Day, #ubuntu-toolchain saw about one discussion a month.  :P
[20:09] <seb128> doko, right, that's #ubuntu-devel ;-)
[20:09] <slangasek> heh
[20:10]  * infinity registers a consolidating-irc-channels spec.
[20:10] <doko> seb128, no, it's not that funny if there is not one channel that anybody in distro joins
[20:11] <seb128> doko, distro people who are on #ubuntu-desktop are usually on #ubuntu-devel
[20:11] <infinity> But I have a much better idea than just forcing some people to move to -devel, and others to do whatever.  I think we need to have two channels, #ubuntu-a-m and #ubuntu-n-z, and whatever letter your line starts with, that's the channel you send it to.
[20:12] <seb128> infinity, you can't put g and k in the same channel....
[20:12] <infinity> You can learn to get along.
[20:12] <seb128> I will start to cry :p
[20:13] <kenvandine> lol
[20:13] <doko> g catches up with k
[20:13] <seb128> well nowadays we are on u, but still ;-)
[20:13] <slangasek> pff, it's the same point of articulation, merely a difference of voicing
[20:13] <slangasek> (we were talking about linguistics, weren't we?)
[20:14] <kenvandine> seb128, now it is g and q
[20:16] <ScottK> re consolidating ubuntu-desktop and -devel: Are you going to conslidate ubuntu-server, kubuntu-devel, etc in there too?
[20:16] <ScottK> There are lots of developers that really don't care about Ubuntu the desktop.
[20:24] <slangasek> ScottK: if I had my druthers
[20:26] <ScottK> How about #ubuntu-motu?
[20:27] <ScottK> I guess if it's all of them, I think it's OK.
[20:27] <slangasek> sure
[20:27] <slangasek> (not that I can ever keep straight the current rationale for #ubuntu-motu being a separate channel, either)
[20:28]  * micahg sees it as an opportunity for training w/out bothering in progress discussions
[20:29] <ScottK> One could argue that could be done in #ubuntu-packaging.
[20:29] <jbicha> let's create a new IRC channel to discuss this issue!
[20:29] <ScottK> In the current paradigm there's no particularly special role for MOTU in training new devs
[20:30] <slangasek> which is why I'm not sure why it's a distinct channel :)
[20:30] <ScottK> I think the channel and the ML can go away.
[20:31] <ScottK> Both are not very active anymore anyway.
[20:32] <micahg> the channel seems pretty active to me and the ML has been seeing more activity lately as well, but folding it in would be fine with me
[20:33] <micahg> it would stop the main/universe where do I go questions
[20:37] <Laney> I quite like having a community around universe.
[20:43]  * micahg likes that too
[20:44] <ScottK> It's far less active than it used to be before $DECISION_MAKER decided try and kill of MOTU.
[20:47] <Laney> indeed it is, and we have a disturbing lack of new people coming through, but I hope we can repair the damage over time
[20:48] <highvoltage> Could it perhaps also be that there is greater awareness now that new packages and bug fixes should rather be done in debian first?
[20:49] <ScottK> I think it's a feeling that there's less room for development contribution if you're !Canonical.
[20:49] <ScottK> Also I think the user base has shifted over time.
[20:50] <ScottK> We get a lot fewer breathless "Oh, must have latest $CRACK" FFes than we used to.
[20:50] <highvoltage> ScottK: well, for some ubuntu-specific stuff that is true. but I don't think it applies at all to universe.
[20:50] <ScottK> highvoltage: How well do people understand that from the outside?
[20:50]  * micahg has tempered his "latest $CRACK" filings over time
[20:51] <highvoltage> ScottK: good question.
[20:52] <highvoltage> ScottK: I guess blogging about it would help to some degree. I'd be happy to do that if you could proof-read it to make sure it's all sane.
[20:54] <highvoltage> I also wish there were more information/communication about the archive re-org.
[20:57] <slangasek> I've switched from crack to ecstasy, personally
[21:00] <infinity> slangasek: But "I want the latest $X" can be a confusing statement.
[21:01] <slangasek> heh
[21:01] <infinity> I wonder if the mythbuntu folks would get angry about me co-opting their brand to make an always-broken flavour called methbuntu.
[21:03] <infinity> Basically, it would just be an installer that shows you things that make you really, really happy for 30 minutes, and then convinces you to plug in all your removable media, so it can randomly delete stuff you like.
[21:03] <stgraber> infinity: also make sure to daily sync from experimental and add the DX/desktop daily build PPA in there, that should be all you need for it
[21:25] <Laney> are AAs still doing the sync queue?
[21:26] <ScottK> Yes.
[21:26] <ScottK> cjwatson did it as recently as today or yesterday.
[21:27] <Laney> sounds good. Didn't know whether to ping or not; I'll leave it then.
[22:11] <ScottK> I'm going to push one more round of kdepim related changes.  It's mostly turning our git snapshots into 4.7.2 and one good bugfix.
[22:14] <cjwatson> I did most of it, not quite all
[22:14] <cjwatson> I think there were two I needed to check on - anyone want to comment on webkitkde?
[22:14] <cjwatson> seemed rather FFE-worthy to me
[22:15] <cjwatson> highvoltage: quite honestly, I wish I'd never started with archive reorg and would rather forget about it than blog about it
[22:16] <cjwatson> it seemed to make sense, and then turned into a couple of intertwined ghastly messes
[22:17] <cjwatson> the whole "MOTU is being killed off" meme was never my intention and I think has been a clear net negative
[22:17] <cjwatson> whatever the technical pluses of consolidating the components might have been
[22:17]  * micahg hugs cjwatson
[22:26] <Daviey> micahg: I'm fully aware that libvirt affects more than lxc, but thanks for the pointer.
[22:26] <micahg> Daviey: I figured you were, which is why I was puzzled by your comment
[22:28] <Daviey> micahg: The patchset in the upload resolves an lxc race.
[22:29] <micahg> ah
[22:32] <jdstrand> skaet: security review added to bug #834442
[22:32] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 834442 in translate-toolkit (Ubuntu Oneiric) (and 1 other project) "[MIR] translate-toolkit (affects: 3) (heat: 20)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/834442
[22:33] <skaet> jdstrand,  ack.  thanks.
[22:34] <jdstrand> skaet: I'd like another member of the mir team to make the final decision
[22:35] <jdstrand> skaet: perhaps mterry since he did the initial packaging review and is familiar with it
[22:36] <skaet> jdstrand,  based on what you're seeing,  and the lateness,  it doesn't look good.   Yes, getting mterry's opinion on doing the split out would be good.
[22:37] <jdstrand> skaet: well, while I prefer the split, it wouldn't be the worst thing to get it in. I am new to the mir team and getting my feet wet wrt acceptance criteria
[22:37] <slangasek> stgraber: review requested for https://code.launchpad.net/~vorlon/ubiquity/lp.813065/+merge/78179, which fixes the bug for me
[22:38] <skaet> slangasek: can you have a look at bug 834442?
[22:38] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 834442 in translate-toolkit (Ubuntu Oneiric) (and 1 other project) "[MIR] translate-toolkit (affects: 3) (heat: 20)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/834442
[22:38] <jdstrand> skaet: I'm ending up wearing 2 hats-- the security hat, and then the mir hat. making sure I am wearing the right one is what I am trying to work out ;)
[22:38] <slangasek> ok
[22:38] <skaet> thanks.  :)
[22:41] <slangasek> skaet, jdstrand: wasn't this meant to become an MIR *only* if the recommends on python-aeidon needed to be kept?  translate-toolkit itself has been in main forever
[22:41] <slangasek> not that I object to you reviewing the security of the package, but it doesn't seem to be required by the MIR process :)
[22:43]  * jdstrand scratches head
[22:44] <jdstrand> oh, I see, libreoffice doesn't need translate-toolkit any more
[22:44] <jdstrand> so if we wanted to keep it on its own, we needed the mir
[22:44] <slangasek> "the b-d should be removed, or the [python-aeidon] component mismatch (including further dependencies) should be addressed, and this report converted to a MIR.
[22:44] <slangasek> "
[22:44] <slangasek> meaning an MIR *for python-aeidon*, not for translate-toolkit
[22:45] <slangasek> and per https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/translate-toolkit/+bug/834442/comments/1, it is still needed for LibO
[22:45] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 834442 in translate-toolkit (Ubuntu Oneiric) (and 1 other project) "[MIR] translate-toolkit (affects: 3) (heat: 20)" [High,Confirmed]
[22:46] <jdstrand> well, I guess this can be closed as the rdepends of translate-toolkit don't include python-aeidon
[22:46] <jdstrand> that was an unfortunate title for the bug :\
[22:47] <skaet> indeed.   thanks jdstrand, slangasek.   glad that's sorted.
[22:48] <slangasek> jdstrand: well, Sweetshark evidently misunderstood what doko was asking, perhaps someone should clarify with him
[22:48] <jdstrand> and by 'rdepends', I of course meant 'depends' :P
[22:48] <slangasek> ('MIR' wasn't in the original bug title)
[22:48] <jdstrand> no matter, it is all resolved now
[22:49] <jdstrand> I guess I can comment in the bug
[22:49] <jdstrand> slangasek: thanks for looking at it
[22:49] <slangasek> sure thing :)
[22:51] <highvoltage> cjwatson: how about putting archive reorg to rest softly and officially?
[22:51] <highvoltage> cjwatson: also, *hug*
[22:52] <micahg> highvoltage: personally, I'd rather see it driven to completion while trying to help MOTU recover
[22:53] <highvoltage> micahg: hmm, interesting
[22:59] <ScottK> Is the bot dead?
[23:03] <ScottK> slangasek, infinity, etc: Would one of you review akdonadi/kdepim/runtime/libs?  Should be minimal diffs.
[23:04] <infinity> ScottK: I will in a sec.
[23:05] <ScottK> Thanks.
[23:16] <infinity> ScottK: Accepted.