broderhmm...this run is much better, but disk utilization is still really high after ureadahead finishes00:05
slangasekif I look at broder's bootchart, will my X server crash again00:46
RAOFslangasek: Mine didn't, so I don't think yours will :)00:48
broderdid...one of my other bootcharts crash your X server?00:48
RAOFFirefox loves itself some huge X pixmaps.00:48
slangasekbroder: you have non-trivial I/O from fsck and update-motd-updates-available; is this reproducible across boots, or did you just get lucky with this bootchart that everything needed to be done at boot?00:49
slangasekbroder: no, someone else's bootchart did00:49
slangasekit's an X server bug00:49
slangasek(not a firefox bug at all)00:49
broderslangasek: that was my second reboot after installation, so it may have just been an immediately-post-install thing00:49
slangasekI wouldn't expect a fsck on the second reboot after install00:50
slangasekdo you have the matching /var/log/boot.log?00:50
broderi rebooted the machine one more time after the chart i sent to ubuntu-desktop. let me see what i can get off the disk00:51
broder(i will also have one more bootchart so we can see if the i/o was spurious)00:51
broderslangasek: http://paste.ubuntu.com/702524/ is the boot.log that's there, but i assume that's from boot #3, not #200:57
broderslangasek: the round 3 bootcharts are also in http://web.mit.edu/broder/Public/livecd-bootchart/ - they seem to have very similar disk i/o from fsck and update-motd00:58
=== Shadows` is now known as SoulShadow
jbichasmspillaz: I managed to get my launcher hiding behind my desktop again03:14
jbichaAlt-F1 or the Meta key still makes it pop out, but the edge reveal doesn't work, nor does it show when I alt-tab to the Desktop03:15
jbichaCtrl-Alt-arrow keys to a blank desktop works and if I unmaximize my windows I'm ok too, but I like maximized windows on a relatively small screen03:19
slangasekbroder: which one of those is the round-three boot chart?04:06
broderslangasek: bah, round 3 is the middle one04:07
broder(it ends in -3, not that you can see that)04:07
slangasekbroder: hrm, how is that comparable disk i/o?04:08
broderslangasek: i'm comparing http://web.mit.edu/broder/Public/livecd-bootchart/postinstall-oneiric-20111004-2.png and http://web.mit.edu/broder/Public/livecd-bootchart/postinstall-oneiric-20111004-3.png04:08
broderwhich is 2nd boot after installing and 3rd boot, respectively04:09
slangasekwell now I'm confused04:09
slangasekbecause I swear this isn't the boot chart I looked at earlier :)04:09
broderyeah, the...filename ordering was not ideal04:09
brodererr, right. sorry04:09
broderthe first bootchart i sent to the channel was one that was broken, because way too much I/O was happening after ureadahead04:10
broderbut i had already purged the drive i was using when i realized that04:10
slangasekhah, ok04:10
broderand started over04:10
slangasekI thought that's still what we were debugging :)04:10
broderyeah, sorry04:10
broderi wish i still had it, because it was kind of strange04:11
broderbut i'm assuming something just went horribly wrong with ureadahead's collection mode04:11
slangasekureadahead isn't going to collect on behalf of fsck :)04:11
broderwell, it should for the minimum amount of reading fsck does on every boot04:11
brodersince mountall always does an fsck, it just usually doesn't do much04:11
slangaseknor update-motd-updates-available, which a) doesn't happen every boot, b) does writing more than reading04:12
slangasekright, but that boot chart showed a *non*-minimal fsck04:12
broderare you sure it wasn't just a slow minimal fsck that was slow enough that bootchart caught the child in the act?04:13
slangasekyes, because unless you're turning your disk by hand, there's no reason a fsck of a clean disk would take > 1s04:14
brodernot even bad i/o scheduling?04:14
slangasekbad i/o scheduling wouldn't have shown up as solid red attributed to fsck on the bootchart :)04:15
slangasek(bootchart knows *which* process is actively engaged in i/o and colors the process appropriately - if it's just waiting its turn, it wouldn't have been red)04:15
broderi think that's light red - there's a modprobe further down that's dark red you can compare it against04:16
slangasekright, when I said "red" I mean "red that I can meaningfully distinguish from the background" :)04:17
* broder shrugs04:17
broderi'll take your word for it - my bootchart reading ability is pretty minimal04:18
slangasekhttp://web.mit.edu/broder/Public/postinstall-oneiric-20111004-2.png - red fsck, not a no-op04:18
robert_ancellbryceh, RAOF, is rootless X back in scope for 12.04?04:20
RAOFrobert_ancell: As in - not running X as root?  Probably not.04:20
robert_ancellRAOF, what's blocking it?04:20
RAOFIt's the continuing saga of input routing.04:21
robert_ancellRAOF, i.e. udev?04:21
RAOFNo - the problem is that when user switching you have no way of knowing that the old X server *actually* gave up it's read access to the tty, and isn't sitting pretty, nabbing all your passwords.04:22
RAOFBah.  Apostropheing.04:22
robert_ancellRAOF, this is where the central wayland compositor fits in?04:23
RAOFIt's the trusted input router.04:23
didrocksgood morning05:46
RAOFHey, ho, didrocks!05:47
didrocksHo, hey, RAOF ;)05:49
didrocksRAOF: we should track bug #830949 at UDS to have a session on those configurations with dx05:55
ubot2Launchpad bug 830949 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[Intel N10 Graphics] Plugging in external monitor to VGA port makes both displays corrupted with thick slanted lines " [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83094905:55
didrocksRAOF: (hint hint, blueprint, blueprint ;))05:55
RAOFdidrocks: I don't think there's a whole lot to discuss - they know what they need to implement, it just needs to be implemented.05:56
didrocksRAOF: yeah, but there was already a "we should do that" last cycle, if we don't mark it down somewhere, it won't be done next cycle either. Maybe not a session, but being part of one (multi-monitor enhancement, maybe?)05:57
RAOFI guess it could be useful for workitem tracking.05:57
didrocksright, the discussion itself won't, just tracking and not forgetting :)05:57
dupondjemmmm telepathy-mission-control 5.9.3 is out today06:14
pittiGood morning06:25
pittirobert_ancell: still here?06:25
didrocksguten morgen pitti06:25
robert_ancellpitti, yes, on phone, will talk when off06:25
pittibonjour didrocks06:26
pittirobert_ancell: great, thanks06:26
jbichapitti: we're not disabling the login sound for oneiric, right?06:27
pittijbicha: too late now, I think (unfortunately)06:27
RAOFMorning pitti06:27
pittihey RAOF06:28
jbichapitti: this is one guide for users to disable it: http://maketecheasier.com/disable-login-sound-in-ubuntu-oneiric-quick-tips/2011/09/1506:28
pittijbicha: it's quite easy to do in the audio control panel06:28
jbichawe could make it simpler by removing the NoDisplay line but seb128 didn't like that by default Startup Applications would have one choice06:28
jbichawell that affects all sound effects, I like the other ones :)06:29
jbichawe did have a login preferences window in 11.04 with a 1-click login sound on/off button06:30
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
jbichatoo bad this wasn't proposed sooner, I've not been a fan of the login noise for a few releases now06:31
pittijbicha: oh, right, gnome-session-properties06:31
didrocksjbicha: you like the other one? waow, we found one! :-)06:31
pittijbicha: but it doesn't seem to be there06:31
jbichapitti: we dropped Login Preferences when we switched to GDM 3 as we didn't feel like rewriting it06:32
pittijbicha: ah, that one (gdmsetup); I thought the autostart one06:32
didrocksthe gdmsetup one was only the login sound only for gdm06:33
didrocksthe "tadada"06:33
robert_ancellpitti, hey, about the LANG thing?06:37
rickspencer3didrocks, I just closed mumble and it caused my workspace to get visually garbled06:39
rickspencer3would this be at all a useful bug for me to log?06:39
robert_ancellpitti, better get in quick before I log off...06:40
rickspencer3it seems to be that my desktop image is now mapped to my browser window06:40
didrocksrickspencer3: yeah, this bug is known and fixed for compiz06:43
rickspencer3thanks didrocks06:43
didrocksrickspencer3: I didn't want to push it yesterday, because it's risky06:43
didrocksand we know what happens when there is a change in the stacking code :)06:43
rickspencer3didrocks, np06:43
didrocksrickspencer3: so basically first SRU, with a day of staging06:43
didrocksa week*06:43
pittirobert_ancell: whoops, notify fail06:43
pittirobert_ancell: I just followed up to the MP and to the bug06:43
pittirobert_ancell: so, the updated MP is rather bad IMHO (aside from the fact that it has a security vulnerability)06:44
pittirobert_ancell: I still don't understand why lightdm has to set $LANG in the first place, and second, why setting $LANGUAGE instead wouldn't be enough06:44
pittirobert_ancell: I thought the original idea was "control center and gdm only set a language, not a complete locale; if you want to have full control over locales you need langauge-selector"06:44
robert_ancellpitti, so the case is "systems that don't only use .dmrc and don't have a language changer need to set the language".  They have a Language defined in ~/.dmrc, and LightDM maps that to a locale (by scanning locale -a) and sets LANG overriding the system default set in PAM.  If you do use accountsservice then it is overriden by the values set in ~/.profile06:46
pittirobert_ancell: but that doesn't seem to be cjwatson's bug06:47
pittirobert_ancell: cjwatson's .dmrc had complete locales06:47
robert_ancellpitti, the case that cjwatson was getting, is he had both en_GB and en_GB.utf8 as valid locales, and lightdm picked the former meaning he was using the wrong locale.  1.0.0 changed this to pick a locale with a codeset over one without06:47
pitticjwatson's bug is that lightdm assigns $LANG to the "Language" property in accountsservic3e06:47
pittirobert_ancell: right, which made it just differently wrong06:48
pittirobert_ancell: but the Language property is not a locale06:48
robert_ancellpitti, I didn't touch base with him, but he must have had "en_GB" in the output of locale -a (I don't)06:48
pittirobert_ancell: yes, he did06:48
robert_ancellso in his case, en_GB was a valid locale06:48
pittiyes, but nowhere did it say that it was his selected locale06:48
pitti.dmrc said en_GB.UTF-806:48
pittiand accountsservice doesn't have a locale06:49
pittirobert_ancell: I think the part of .dmrc is okay06:49
pittiwhich is for the "derivatives" case, AFAIUI06:49
robert_ancellpitti, now that is weird.  It should have contacted accountsservice and that should have returned "en_GB"06:49
pittirobert_ancell: right, it did06:49
pittirobert_ancell: but that is *not* a locale06:50
pittiit's a language name06:50
pittiGerman would have said "de"06:50
robert_ancellpitti, correct, and lightdm uses set_language to map that to a locale name06:50
robert_ancellpitti, not de_DE?06:50
pittiyes, and that's the very bug :)06:50
pittirobert_ancell: no, because it is not a locale :)06:50
pittirobert_ancell: English and Spanish are special because the country specific dialects are so far apart06:51
pittiso for English, Spanish, and Portugese we also need the country dialect06:51
pittibut all other languages are similar enough to only have one name06:51
pittie. g. German in Austria or French in Belgium are so close that they don't warrant a separate set of translations06:51
pittirobert_ancell: and you cannot select a country in control-center, i. e. you can never pick a locale there06:51
pittii. e. I can't say "I'm in Austria"06:52
pittiI can just say "I speak German"06:52
pittiand that concept is $LANGUAGE, while "I'm in Austria" is a locale06:52
robert_ancellpitti, so is accountsservice different to dmrc?06:52
pittirobert_ancell: I'm not entirely sure how different login managers handled .dmrc; it was a giant pile of underdefined mess06:53
pittirobert_ancell: but from what cjwatson had, it had a complete locale, i. e. for $LANG06:53
pittiand _also_ a language list in a different key06:53
pittihang on, looking for his pastebin06:53
pittirobert_ancell: but at least accountsservice is defined to only be a language name, i. e. for $LANGUAGE (not for $LANG)06:53
pittiit would have helped immensely if $LANG was called $LOCALE, FWIW06:54
robert_ancellpitti, hang on, lets set up etherpad and write this out in a table06:54
pittirobert_ancell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/702159/ <- cjwatson's .dmrc06:54
pittiwhich maps to $LANG, $LANGUAGE, and $LC_MESSAGES in that order06:55
pittirobert_ancell: sure, want to create one, or want me to?06:55
robert_ancellpitti, but that's wrong isn't it - shouldn't Language be "en_GB"06:55
robert_ancellpitti, you create one, I'm still trying to find the link to it06:55
pittirobert_ancell: http://pad.ubuntu.com/locale-handling06:56
jbichapitti: could you merge https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/ubuntu/oneiric/jockey/update-help-link/+merge/7778206:59
pittirobert_ancell: I'm not sure what kind of language configuration tool derivatives use07:09
pittirobert_ancell: we didn't use to have one before hardy either, we just had the installer, and then people edited .profile07:09
robert_ancellpitti, they used to rely on the greeter, but if the DM doesn't set LANG, then nothing does07:09
pittirobert_ancell: sure, /etc/default/locale does07:09
robert_ancellpitti, yes, nothing per user07:09
robert_ancellpitti, so it sounds like the concept of the MP is right - we should set LANG="Language" from .dmrc if dmrc is used, and do nothing if accountsservice is used?07:11
pittirobert_ancell: yes07:14
pittirobert_ancell: setting the language from .dmrc is kind of deprecated now, at least from teh GNOME side, right?07:15
robert_ancellpitti, and the current behaviour is safe I *think* in that it will at worst set LANG to the value in .profile anyway07:16
pittirobert_ancell: no, it's not safe, as it sets $LANG from accountsservice's Language property07:16
robert_ancellpitti, yes, the LANG stuff in lightdm is a compromise for legacy system07:16
pittii. e. it derives a locale from a language name, which can't work07:16
pittirobert_ancell: the bug we must fix is setting $LANG from Language; presumably the ~/.dmrc stuff is alright (haven't tested it, though)07:17
pittithose are two orthogonal issues07:17
robert_ancellpitti, is there an example that it will break.  If a-s Language=de, lightdm will run locale -a, look for de.* and then de, if it exists, set LANG to that otherwise do nothing07:17
pittirobert_ancell: nonono07:17
pittidon't do all that locale -a stuff07:18
pittiit can't work07:18
pittithat is the very bug07:18
robert_ancellpitti, I'm just running through what it does right now07:18
robert_ancellpitti, if you've never set a language it will do nothing as "Language" from a-s will be blank07:18
robert_ancellif you have set a language with the GUI, then .profile will be updated anyway and will override whatever lightdm set07:18
pittirobert_ancell: that case needs to be checked, of course; i. e. dont set $LANGUAGE to that empty field, just leave it alone07:19
robert_ancellpitti, I think we're safe as is for release though?07:19
pittirobert_ancell: I think the only thing that we need to fix for the release is bug 86461807:20
ubot2Launchpad bug 864618 in lightdm "UTF-8 locale no longer set" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/86461807:20
pittithe .dmrc stuff is probably alright07:20
pittirobert_ancell: i. e. we need to drop all that `locale -a` parsing and setting $LANG from accountsservice07:20
pittiright now that's a rather grave bug07:21
robert_ancellpitti, cjwatson should have LANG=en_GB.UTF-8 in lightdm 1.0.1 right?  He had LANG=en_GB in 1.0.007:21
pittiI'm not sure why https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/gnome-control-center/non-utf8-confusion/+merge/78140 exists and why we need it07:21
pittirobert_ancell: no, he doesn't07:21
pittirobert_ancell: you don't look for .UTF-807:22
pittirobert_ancell: it'll find en_GB.iso88591 first07:23
robert_ancellpitti, but I do in 1.0.1!07:23
pittirobert_ancell: but even then, you only look at the locale name, which can be anything07:23
pittireally, we need to drop that code07:23
pittilooking for .UTF-8 is just equally wrong07:23
robert_ancellwell, I'm ok to drop it, and SRU the proper fix in later07:23
pittimany locales are UTF-8 and don't have such a suffix, and then have another encoding with a suffix07:24
pittihy_AM UTF-807:24
pittihy_AM.ARMSCII-8 ARMSCII-807:24
pittifor example07:24
robert_ancellpitti, you just need to comment out set_language()07:24
pittirobert_ancell: right, that was the original MP, AFAIUI07:24
pittirobert_ancell: what does that do exactly?07:25
robert_ancellpitti, but it will break it for derivatives07:25
pittirobert_ancell: set $LANG from accountsservice? or also handle .dmrc?07:25
pittiwe need to drop the first, and keep the second07:25
* pitti RTFS07:25
robert_ancellpitti, a-s and dmrc are the same inside lightdm, so both fields are being treated as a language code07:25
robert_ancellthe proper fix is to have a locale property and a language property on the user object, the former set if using dmrc and the latter if using a-s.  If user.locale != null then set LANG07:26
pittiand if user.language != null, then set LANGUAGE (but that's optional as long as we write ~/.profile, but should be done later on)07:27
robert_ancellpitti, I think we just need to match the old GDM behaviour of setting LANG only.  If you want proper language support then use ~/.profile or ~/.pam_environment07:27
robert_ancellthis is just a sticking plaster for desktops that haven't sorted out their language configuration07:28
pittirobert_ancell: that's easier indeed07:28
pittiso the long-term simple design is that lightdm/gdm don't set anything, and just make sure to source in .profile and .pam_environment07:28
robert_ancellpitti, can you make the change?  (do we still have time)07:28
pittirobert_ancell: yes, this is a critical bug milestoned for final, we make time for these :)07:28
pittirobert_ancell: NB that if I upload it, I need to wait some time for someone else to review it, and then have the same conversation all over again07:29
pittibut Gunnar's original MP was correct, I think I can just sponsor that without the second /tmp/foo stamp stuff07:29
pittirobert_ancell: so yes, can do that ^07:29
robert_ancellok.  thanks pitti!07:29
robert_ancellpitti, I have to go, is there anything else you need me to do?07:30
robert_ancellpitti, also you probably want to disable user_set_language in greeter.c as that will set the language wrong07:31
robert_ancell(only occurs if you've enabled the legacy language selector (in the gtk greeter))07:32
SweetsharkMoin Desktoppers!07:32
pittirobert_ancell: checking07:32
pittirobert_ancell: hm, that's an unrelated bug, though?07:33
pittihey Sweetshark07:33
robert_ancellpitti, yeah, it's just the opposite of the other bug though07:33
pittirobert_ancell: so user_set_language gets passed a locale instead of a langauge name?07:33
Sweetsharkpitti: 3.4.3-3ubuntu1~natty1 would fix postgres for natty, but needs pg 9.1 it seems. what should we do?07:34
robert_ancellpitti, I can't remember off hand, but it passes the same value to a-d and .dmrc so it will be wrong in one07:34
pittiSweetshark: uh, how so? does it have server-side extensions, or does it actually use new API from libpq 9.1?07:34
robert_ancellto a-s rather07:34
pittirobert_ancell: right07:34
Sweetsharkpitti: it uses the new api07:35
pittirobert_ancell: I think that's SRUable, though, as it only breaks when writing, not already when starting the session?07:35
robert_ancellpitti, yes07:35
pittiSweetshark: so, I guess we can leave it broken then07:35
robert_ancellpitti, anything else?07:36
Sweetsharkpitti: ok07:37
robert_ancellpitti, I have to go, email me and I'll check tonight if it's urgent07:38
pittirobert_ancell: good to go now, I think07:38
pittijasoncwarner_: nothing on my list for 1-1 today, just a ton of stuff to sort out for oneiric, so I wouldn't mind dropping it07:39
jasoncwarner_pitti: done07:39
didrockshey rodrigo_07:53
rodrigo_hi didrocks07:53
micahggood morning seb12808:05
didrockssalut seb12808:06
seb128lut didrocks08:06
seb128hey micahg08:06
micahgseb128: I was wondering, can we switch the Ubuntu Desktop team owner to the DMB so that the DMB doesn't have to be a member and therefore does not get extra upload rights?08:06
seb128micahg, what is the dbm? what does that mean? why the dmb needs to own the team?08:07
micahgseb128: the DMB is the Developer Membership Board which delegates to the desktop team the right to confer upload rights08:07
seb128hum, I though we were entitled to decide who join our team?08:08
pittihey seb12808:08
micahgseb128: yes, you are, that's the delegation :)08:08
seb128micahg, there is probably a reason but I don't understand what issue you try to solve08:08
seb128hey pitti ;-)08:08
micahgseb128: right now the DMB members who are not core-dev can upload from the desktop packageset, I'm trying to prevent that08:09
seb128micahg, why does the DMB need to have rights on the desktop set?08:09
pittimicahg: as long as some of the team members are admins, that makes sense indeed08:09
micahgseb128: the most probably case would be for removals08:09
micahgseb128: otherwise, I don't see us touching it, we're already admins on the team though, so no increase in permissions for us08:10
micahgin fact, this reduces our permissions08:10
micahgseb128: pitti and you would remain admins to manage as usual08:11
seb128I've no strong opinion, it feels a bit weird to have the ownership moved to a team which has nothing to do with desktop but if pitti is ok feel free to do it08:12
pittiseb128: core-dev is owned by DMB as well08:12
seb128i.e I don't understand why DMB needs to have rights in a team well administrated but there is probably a reason ;-)08:12
pittiseb128: that's the point -- we want to _remove_ right :)08:12
seb128pitti, well they can ping any admin for that as long as we have active admins ;-)08:13
micahgowner = modify membership w/out being a member08:13
pittiseb128: no, the thing micah wants to remove is DMB members being able to upload desktop packages08:13
seb128well I don't see DMB has "owning" desktop08:13
seb128pitti, well, just unsubscribe DMB from the team?08:14
pittiseb128: they need to be able to add/remove members to it, as per delegation policy08:14
micahgseb128: should we make a separate team just for the upload rights?08:14
seb128but if that's the standard way it's done for other team just do it for desktop08:14
seb128it just feels weird ;-)08:14
pittimicahg: ubuntu-desktop is the team for the upload rights, by and large08:14
seb128micahg, that's what the team is about already, uploads08:14
seb128we have desktop-bugs for bug triagers, and gnome3-team for new crack08:15
pittiseb128: i. e. drop DMB as a member, but make it an owner; that's the standard way other teams are set up these days08:15
seb128pitti, micahg: ok, please do it then ;-)08:15
micahgyeah, I'm just doing some cleanup that should've been done a while ago08:15
pittiseb128: can't, you are the owner08:15
seb128oh, I see,  you are trying to kick me out :p08:15
seb128micahg, pitti: ok, I will change the owner08:16
micahgseb128: heh, you're still a full admin for the team08:16
seb128no worry, I think the misunderstanding comes from my lack of understand of what is the "owner" role exactly for a team08:17
seb128but I will trust you guys ;-)08:17
micahgyeah, the role names can be confusing08:18
jbichaare we going to use a brand new PPA for the GNOME 3.2 extra backport stuff?08:21
rodrigo_pitti, seb128: so, what do we do with the rejected Recommends: mesa-utils in control-center?08:21
pittirodrigo_: I think just keep what we have at this point08:21
seb128rodrigo_, yeah, I blame it on bryceh and RAOF that glxinfo is in universe08:22
rodrigo_pitti, ok, I'll remove that part and re-upload08:22
seb128jbicha, I would recommend using gnome3-team?08:22
ricotzjbicha, just use the oneiric pocket of the current ppa?08:22
seb128rodrigo_, can you get Gunnar's fix as well?08:22
seb128rodrigo_, https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/gnome-control-center/non-utf8-confusion/+merge/7814008:23
ricotzhi everyone08:23
seb128hey ricotz08:23
rodrigo_seb128, sure08:23
ricotzhey seb12808:23
seb128rodrigo_, though I'm not sure the patch is right08:23
jbichawell there's 161 packages in the PPA, for Oneiric we might not use more than 10% of that number!08:23
rodrigo_seb128, hmm, doesn't look good to me neither08:24
jbichaI was thinking a new PPA would be simpler, without needing to filter by series08:24
ricotzjbicha, that is the purpose of filtering ;)08:25
ricotzi dont see a need for a new one here08:25
jbicharicotz: yes but it's clutter that was just for Natty and we don't need that baggage08:25
seb128jbicha, well nobody will see the ppa content, user just add one serie to their source08:26
jbichabut I see it! ;-)08:26
ricotzfilter it! ;)08:27
seb128well, we can clean the natty packages once oneiric is out08:27
jbichaoh ok, I like that solution :)08:28
ricotzseb128, mhh, i would wait for that a few months08:28
rodrigo_seb128, pitti: with Gunnar's patch in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/864618 there's no need for the "fix" in g-c-c, right?08:28
ubot2Launchpad bug 864618 in gnome-control-center "sets $LANG to a language name" [Low,In progress]08:28
rodrigo_the fix in g-c-c is https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/gnome-control-center/non-utf8-confusion/+merge/7814008:29
jbicharicotz: well we want to discourage users from attempting to do GNOME 3 in Natty though08:29
rodrigo_which looks wrong to me08:29
seb128rodrigo_, there is still I think08:29
seb128rodrigo_, but it's very low importance, let's not bother for oneiric08:29
rodrigo_seb128, ok, so I upload without this?08:29
seb128rodrigo_, it seems that the user account can pick an iso8859 encoding when the locale doesn't reflect that08:29
seb128rodrigo_, right08:29
pittirodrigo_, seb128: hang on, on the phone08:30
ricotzjbicha, ok, but some people doesnt upgrade instantly here, and i would wait for some later revisions of 3.2.x to land before cleaning it08:30
pittirodrigo_: I'm not sure what that "confusion" MP is all about08:31
pittirodrigo_: probably better to ask Gunnar directly (in the MP or on IRC)08:31
jbicharicotz: I just think that GNOME 3 in Oneiric is far better than it was in Natty though08:31
seb128pitti, it's what cjwatson mentioned on #ubuntu-devl yesterday, he had "english (iso-8859-1)" in the user admin combo where his locale is not an iso one08:32
pittirodrigo_, seb128: FYI, that's where much of this confusion came from: accountsservice and control-center do NOT select a locale, or encoding, or anything; just a language08:32
rodrigo_seems the lightdm part is ok now, right?08:32
seb128ricotz, jbicha: well, cleaning the natty ppa will not uninstall GNOME3 from natty boxes which installed it from the ppa, just prevent new users to installit08:32
pittithe concept of encodings, iso, locales all don't apply to control-center08:32
pittirodrigo_: it's not ok yet, but at least that part is08:32
pittirodrigo_: lightdm stopped setting $LANG from accountsservice's Language property08:33
pittiwhich was the main bug08:33
* pitti bbl08:34
ricotzseb128, i know, still leaving it some weeks active doesnt hurt here08:34
seb128ricotz, right, it's not useful but doesn't hurt a lot, out of the fact that I start having enough getting gnome-icon-theme bugs from people who try the ppa and try to roll back using ppa-purge :p08:35
ricotzseb128, i am still relying on this ppa as build-dep for mine08:35
jbichait hurts me!! :)08:35
jbicharicotz: that is the purpose of copy packages :)08:36
micahgjbicha: no, not really, that just wastes space on the servers08:36
ricotzseb128, jbicha, please leave it too me to clean the natty pocket08:38
jbichaok with me too08:38
ricotzalright, i will wait some weeks then, to see if the download counts are dropping08:40
dupondjeany idea when kenvandine comes in? :) he still needs to patch mission-control08:41
seb128dupondje, he's u.s based, it's like 3am for him08:43
seb128dupondje, so in a few hours08:43
dupondjeheh ok :)08:43
seb128ricotz, there are still lot of users installing it? just curious ;-)08:44
ricotzseb128, yes, at least updating from it08:44
jbichawhat are the numbers? I don't think I've seen them08:45
ricotzjbicha, it might not be that accurate but it is like 800 downloads per day08:51
didrockspitti: we don't use the desktop cache anymore? Seems /usr/share/applications/desktop.fr_FR.utf8.cache is out of date for me09:36
pittididrocks: right, we didn't get it ported to the new gnome-menus, and didn't find it to be important any more for boot speed09:37
pittididrocks: as we don't actually use gnome-panel any more, etc.09:38
didrockspitti: ok, thanks or confirming :)09:38
seb128didrocks, pitti: we should perhaps make gnome-menus clean those on upgrade?09:48
pittiseb128: yes, right09:48
pittiseb128: btw, thanks for getting the pad restored09:49
pittiseb128: I'll upload a gnome-menus with that cleanup09:49
didrockspitti: seb128: there was no use of it for unity-place-applications?09:50
didrockskamstrup: ^09:50
pittididrocks: there probably was, but we just didn't get around to porting the patch09:50
pittignome-menus 3.2 got changed pretty thoroughly09:50
kamstruppitti, didrocks: yes, u-l-a uses libgmenu09:51
kamstrupbutit is started lazily by unity09:52
pittididrocks, seb128: filed as bug 86821909:53
ubot2Launchpad bug 868219 in gnome-menus "Needs to remove old menu caches" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/86821909:54
chrisccoulsonhi everyone09:54
pittihey chrisccoulson09:54
chrisccoulsonseb128, did you know that we can't switch users from the lock dialog?09:54
chrisccoulsonhey pitti, how are you?09:54
jasoncwarner_pitti seb128 just got done talking to mark about some stuff and he mentioned that he was having suspend/resume problems...is there a general thing happening (I'm not seeing it)09:54
chrisccoulsonseb128, i just noticed that here when jo logged in to my laptop09:54
pittijasoncwarner_: hm, works fine here09:55
chrisccoulsoni can't switch back to my own account after suspending ;)09:55
pittiI have suspended my oneiric laptop maybe 20 times over the long weekend09:55
jasoncwarner_pitti: he also mentioned intel wifi locking up his system, which should never happen.09:55
seb128pitti, thanks09:55
pittinot generally known, I think09:55
seb128pitti, want to clean the buggy conffile as well? ;-)09:56
jasoncwarner_chrisccoulson: say what now? you can't what after resuming from suspend?09:56
seb128chrisccoulson, hey09:56
chrisccoulsonjasoncwarner_, i can't switch users after resuming from suspend, as the lock dialog has no switch-user button09:56
chrisccoulsoni guess that depends on gdm?09:56
seb128chrisccoulson, no, I didn't know, seems like a lightdm issue :-(09:56
jasoncwarner_oh, but you can resume and log in to the suspended account...the issue is you can't switch accounts...09:57
seb128jasoncwarner_, suspend resume is not known to be broken no09:57
jasoncwarner_I think mark's issue is that it generally doesn't suspend or resume09:57
chrisccoulsonjasoncwarner_, yeah, which makes it difficult if jo resumes after i was the last person to use it09:57
chrisccoulsonas she can't access her session again09:57
jasoncwarner_chrisccoulson: we should fix that09:57
seb128chrisccoulson, the lock dialog has a switch user button there09:57
seb128but the dbus interfaces it tries to use seems to not work09:57
chrisccoulsonhmmm, i wonder why i don't have that here09:58
chrisccoulsonseb128, do you have gdm installed?10:00
pittiseb128: I don't have a "switch user" button10:00
chrisccoulsonit depends on gdm10:01
seb128chrisccoulson, yes, gdm is installed10:01
chrisccoulsonseb128, that's why ;)10:01
seb128why does it depends on gdm?10:01
seb128we got a /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm/gdmflexiserver10:01
chrisccoulsonseb128, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-screensaver/tree/src/gs-lock-plug.c#n102010:01
seb128lightdm adds /usr/lib/lightdm/lightdm to the path as well10:01
chrisccoulsonit checks if it is in the path10:01
chrisccoulsonthat doesn't work here then, as it's not in my path10:02
chrisccoulsonanyway, need to disappear again now10:04
jasoncwarner_didrocks: another issue mark mentioned was he was starting up and unity failed to start (no details). Any ideas?10:05
seb128chrisccoulson, thanks for pointing it10:05
chrisccoulsonno problem :)10:05
seb128jasoncwarner_, get us his .xsession-errors10:05
seb128chrisccoulson, mterry did an hack to add the path to PATH but it seems to not work10:05
didrocksjasoncwarner_: yeah, I heard about this one :-) I asked for checking if lightdm is the latest one, if there is a crash file as well10:05
didrocksjasoncwarner_: nothing worrying in the french forum (no crash at startup since the fixed lightdm with root .xsessione-errors)10:06
jasoncwarner_didrocks: care to ping him and see?10:06
didrocksjasoncwarner_: yeah, apparently he's away for now, isn't it?10:07
jibeldidrocks, I still get bug 851345 even with latest lightdm and .xsession-errors is not owned by root anymore.10:12
ubot2Launchpad bug 851345 in lightdm "compiz crashes on i915 graphic module with GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap is missing" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/85134510:12
jibelin that case, only nautilus starts and no unity10:12
didrocksjibel: oh, I didn't get it anymore after 10 reboots there. Better to ping RAOF about it10:12
pittiseb128: I did some more cleanup in the gnome-menus bzr, but not necessary to upload that into oneiric, FYI10:12
seb128pitti, ok10:12
didrocksjibel: ok, maybe that's what sabdfl is experiencing, thanks for the notice10:13
didrocksRAOF: when you will be around tomorrow ^^10:13
seb128didrocks, jibel: it's rather a robert_ancell issue10:13
seb128it seems the ck session is not correct10:13
jibelI pinged them last night but I got it this morning again after upgrading to the latest lightdm10:13
* didrocks reopens the bug again10:13
seb128didrocks, don't10:13
pittididrocks: meh, unity-lens-applications diff is basically unreadable due to v3 source10:14
pittididrocks: can we also switch this back to v1 in P, similar to unity?10:14
didrocksyeah, ck10:14
didrocksseb128: reopens to read :)10:14
seb128didrocks, oh ok ;-)10:14
didrockspitti: yeah, I'll do that for every bzr merge-upstream package10:14
didrockspitti: u-l-a change is one line10:14
didrockspitti: unity one is +1/-110:15
jasoncwarner_jibel and didrocks :( thanks...robert_ancell and RAOF  will need to take a look tomorrow!10:15
pitti++    DesktopAppInfo.set_desktop_env ("Unity");10:15
pittididrocks: ^ is it that one?10:15
didrockspitti: yeah10:16
pittididrocks: thanks10:16
didrockspitti: replaces GNOME by Unity10:16
didrockspitti: for the unity upload, it's http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/trunk/revision/169310:17
pittididrocks: thanks10:18
seb128pitti, can we still get a glib upload today?10:35
pittiseb128: I guess we can, but that sounds risky; what does it fix?10:36
seb128pitti, the postrm has10:36
seb128if [ -d /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas ]; then10:36
seb128    # Purge the compiled schemas10:36
seb128    rm -f /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/gschemas.compiled10:36
seb128    rmdir -p --ignore-fail-on-non-empty /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas10:36
seb128pitti, that basically leads to a time where there is no gsettings cache10:37
seb128which leads to applications randomly segfaulting10:37
seb128we should probably just do that only on purge10:37
pittiseb128: on upgrade, are the schemas updated in the postinst?10:37
seb128pitti, yes10:38
seb128and with a trigger10:38
pittiseb128: doesn't seem to be an install issue to me, is it? i. e. would be no worse off with an SRU?10:38
seb128pitti, we can sru yes10:38
pittiseb128: but anyway, if you want to work on this today, there's still time10:39
seb128pitti, right, it's a "during glib upgrade there is a small timeframe where the schemas mmap is missing and it leads to weird bugs"10:39
seb128pitti, I'm fine doing a SRU if you prefer10:39
pittibut seems to be "medium" priority to me10:39
seb128let's SRU it10:40
pittiseb128: yeah, let's; takes the pressure out, and we don't gain anything there by rushing IMHO10:40
Sweetsharkpitti: shouldnt https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:3.3.4-0ubuntu1 be long through proposed by now? see also http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/10/05/the-document-foundation-publishes-details-of-libreoffice-3-4-3-security-fixes/10:45
pittiSweetshark: nobody followed up to the bug yet with testing results10:45
GunnarHjpitti: Hi Martin, seems like bug 864618 was decently resolved.10:47
ubot2Launchpad bug 864618 in gnome-control-center "sets $LANG to a language name" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/86461810:47
GunnarHjI noticed another similar lightdm problem, and wrote a new MP that would fix it in Oneiric:10:47
pittihey GunnarHj10:47
pittiGunnarHj: dropping the set_language() call was indeed a bit blunt, but Robert said that fixing it properly is more intrusive and SRU material; I filed a new bug about the .dmrc issue10:48
pittiGunnarHj: had an 1.5 h discussion with him this morning and we created that pad to collect info10:48
pittiGunnarHj: ugh, locales are hard :)10:48
GunnarHjpitti: Ok. Yes it's hard because of all the different ideas about it that's floating around. :)10:49
pittiGunnarHj: why do we need to turn a language into a locale?10:50
pitti(and calling a perl script during login is also a bit sad)10:50
GunnarHjpitti: Because of the way it's matched against locale -a items.10:50
pittiwell, not any more10:50
pittithat stuff got disabled10:51
Sweetsharkpitti: shall I? It would be quite stupid and nonsense since I created to package in the first place, though.10:51
pittiSweetshark: as long as you use the actual proposed .debs and give them some exercise in a natty environment, that's fine10:51
GunnarHjpitti: No, no, that was another set_language() function.10:51
GunnarHjpitti: The solution in the MP is definately not optimal, but it was the thing I was able to come up with at this point.10:52
pittiGunnarHj: I thought this part of the bug is solved for good now10:52
pittiGunnarHj: what's missing is to read .dmrc and set $LANG from it, for backwards compat/derivatives?10:53
GunnarHjpitti: And it's not the Perl script, but a shell script.10:53
GunnarHjpitti: No, they are separate things.10:53
Sweetsharkpitti: do you have any good idea for javahelper wrt porting 3.4.3 back to natty? it seems to break on symlinks pre-0.37 and we dont have that in natty. Can we backport javahelper too? It prolly easier and safer that finding/fixing all the stuff it does wrong ...10:58
pittiSweetshark: that's for the PPA? sure, you can just put the new helper into that PPA, too10:59
pittiplease make sure that the build-dep on it is strict enough10:59
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
Sweetsharkpitti: you mean pre-depends11:05
pittiwhereever it is used, yes11:05
Sweetsharkbuild-deps is even earlier that pre-depends, so what exactly do you mean?11:06
pittiSweetshark: both then11:07
pittiSweetshark: if the package doesn't build with earier javahelper, bump the b-dep to >= 0.3711:07
pittiif the package doesn't install with an earlier one, bump the (pre-)depends11:07
Sweetsharkpitti: javahelper <0.37 creates wrong deps on build, I am not aware of any bugs on installing.11:08
pittiSweetshark: ah, then build-depends >= 0.37 seems fine11:08
Sweetsharkpitti: tagged SRU as verification-done.11:13
pittiSweetshark: oh, that was quick :)11:13
Sweetsharkpitti: 3.3 has no sensible test suite :(11:14
GunnarHjpitti: Did I succeed in convincing you that https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/lightdm/lang-chooser/+merge/78226 deals with a separate issue?11:25
pittiGunnarHj: oh, right, you did; I just got confused initially because I was discussing bug 864618 all morning :)11:27
ubot2Launchpad bug 864618 in gnome-control-center "sets $LANG to a language name" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/86461811:27
GunnarHjpitti: Ok, good. :)11:27
pittiGunnarHj: this should be a nice SRU, IMHO not critical for final11:27
GunnarHjpitti: Ok, as long as you'll accept is as an SRU, it's ok with me to wait.11:28
pittiso it can go through the usual "review by robert/land upstream" cycle first11:28
GunnarHjpitti: And it may give us time to find a better solution, too.11:29
pittiGunnarHj: btw, that pad wasn't really meant to be a long-term documentation place (wiki would be better for that)11:36
pittiGunnarHj: robert and I mostly used it to co-edit the current questions and resolve misunderstandings11:36
Sweetsharkany gnome guru around? I need to know if there is a way to find out if gnome-session is currently shutting down the session (for bug 562027)11:36
ubot2Launchpad bug 562027 in libreoffice "[Upstream] [ooo-build] QuickStarter: unable to shutdown / reboot / logout when quickstarter is active" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56202711:36
seb128Sweetshark, not sure to understand the question11:38
seb128Sweetshark, gnome-session has 2 interfaces for session handling, a dbus one and the old xsmp protocol from xorg11:40
seb128Sweetshark, seems like the xsmp code in lo is broken11:41
kancermanI'm getting several BAD SIG error lines ... is there a way to reacquire all the signing keys files ... ??11:54
seb128mvo, there?11:57
seb128mvo, unping11:59
mvoseb128: pong12:01
mvoseb128: unpong12:01
seb128mvo, I had a weird software-properties-gtk source edition, I added ppa:ubuntu-desktop/ppa and got a source file with the deb line commented and the second line starting with "src" rather than "deb-src"12:02
seb128mvo, but that seems to work no, I wonder if that was a leftover file on disk that it didn't like or something12:02
mvoseb128: *weeh*12:02
seb128mvo, I will ping again if I get the issue again ;-)12:03
* rodrigo_ lunch12:05
GunnarHjpitti: Thanks for the clarification as regards the pad. Then I'll concentrate on putting down some stuff on a wiki page.12:10
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
Sweetsharkseb128: thx, getting closer to it now.12:13
seb128mterry, hey12:22
seb128mterry, do you have time for a lightdm bug today? ;-)12:22
mterryseb128, sure12:22
seb128mterry, the gdmflexiserver path hack still doesn't work...12:23
seb128mterry, that breaks user switching on the lock screen12:23
mterryseb128, guh12:24
mterryseb128, bug number?12:24
seb128I knew you were going to love that :p12:24
seb128mterry, it was IRC reported but I can file a bug if you want12:24
seb128let me check if there is one12:24
mterryseb128, so to reproduce, I lock my screen and try to switch users?12:25
seb128mterry, well basically you uninstall gdm or move its gdmflexiserver away, (restart gnome-screensaver?), then try to lock your screen12:26
seb128mterry, you should get no "switch user" button12:26
seb128mterry, the code is basically looking if gdmflexiserver is in the path, but it's not12:27
mterryseb128, this is without lightdm?12:27
seb128mterry, no, that's with lightdm12:28
* mterry wonders why gdmflexiserver isn't in the path12:28
seb128mterry, because lightdm install it in /usr/lib/lightdm and your path hack seems to not work (my guess)12:28
seb128mterry, remember you added code to add /usr/lib/lightdm to the PATH12:28
seb128which is somewhat hackish ;-)12:28
mterryseb128, I remember.  But it was working...12:29
seb128well doing a "strings /proc/$(pidof gnome-session)/environ | grep PATH" shows it's not in the path12:29
seb128mterry, yeah, I blame it on robert_ancell he probably broke it :p12:29
seb128mterry, well robert_ancell already had a few other lightdm blockers on his light and is flying to the GNOME summit in the next days so I assume he will not have time to look at it12:30
seb128mterry, if you can that would be nice, otherwise we will SRU it later12:30
mterryseb128, will look12:31
seb128mterry, thanks12:31
=== m_conley_away is now known as m_conley
kenvandinejasoncwarner_, still awake?13:03
seb128kenvandine, not likely, he said he was going to bed a few hours ago13:06
kenvandinei figured as much, i wanted him to run a debugging script for me... oh well :)13:07
kenvandineemail it is!13:07
kenvandinegood morning seb128!13:07
seb128hey kenvandine, how are you?13:07
kenvandinetired... i need more coffee :)13:07
kenvandineand you?13:07
mterryseb128, gdmflexiserver fix uploaded.  I blame robert-ancell13:09
mterry(since he's not here :))13:09
seb128mterry, thanks ;-)13:10
* kenvandine goes to make more coffee, bbiab13:10
dupondjekenvandine: your still checking mission-control?13:23
kenvandinedupondje, i decided against it, but i will try to backport the patches for an SRU13:25
kenvandinethe diff of the new release was more than i felt comfortable uploading in hard freeze13:25
dupondjeheh ok :)13:26
dupondjenew version is out also btw since today13:26
dupondjebut thats TO much diff prolly :)13:26
kenvandineyeah, which includes the second fix you pointed out13:26
kenvandinethat wasn't in the previous release yet13:26
kenvandinei am going to try to back port both of those fixes for SRU13:26
dupondjeand it has nice integration with NetworkManager also now13:27
dupondjewich is even cooler ;)13:27
kenvandinethat will be for 12.04 then :)13:27
dupondjewhen does 12.04 pre-alpha come out ? :p13:27
dupondjeand its not possible to only backport the fixes for the crashes ?13:30
kenvandinedupondje, that is what i plan to do13:31
dupondjebut after release ?13:31
kenvandinedupondje, yeah, after release13:39
ogra_well, you can upload SRUs to the queue before release13:41
ogra_so they roll in as zero day updates13:41
kenvandineogra_, yeah, i want to test it a bit though13:42
ogra_true :)13:42
ogra_mpt, seeing that you discuss the window crash dialogs, would it be possible to make them not steal the users focus ? its really annoying if something dies in the backrgound and pops into the middle of your sentence13:55
ogra_s/and pops/and the error pops/13:55
mptogra_, sure13:56
* ogra_ runs into that quite often 13:56
ogra_probably because i use arm and have more crashes than others :)13:56
seb128the wm focus stealing prevention should avoid that13:59
seb128but yeah, "bug"13:59
didrocksseb128: a lot of people seems to have nautilus-open-terminal making nautilus crashing14:08
didrocks(there is no new release from what I see)14:09
seb128didrocks, there was a fix uploaded yesterday14:09
seb128didrocks, does it still happen or are those on lagging mirrors?14:09
didrocksseb128: maybe lagging mirrors, the upload yesterday was not only ubuntuone-nautilus?14:09
seb128didrocks, there was an ubuntuone-client-gnome issue as well, different bug, different upload ;-)14:09
didrocksseb128: ok, I would say lagging mirrors then, let's see if there are still complains tomorrow14:10
seb128didrocks, right14:10
seb128didrocks, it got uploaded a 9pm yesterday14:10
seb128usually it takes a day or two for reports to settle14:10
didrocksok, I'll keep it under the radar14:11
dobeywe think people are still having issues with the g_value_unref issue, and Our patch will 'fix' their crashes14:11
seb128dobey, we being?14:13
seb128dobey, didn't you add the schemas? that should fix the issue14:13
seb128nautilus works fine with u1 for me since the update14:14
* dobey is we14:18
kenvandineno crashes for me14:19
seb128it's a bit annoying that opening a guest session trigger keyring dialogs14:22
dobeyseb128: we added the schemas, yes; but schemas being there is irrelevant if the cache gets corrupted or gsettings doesn't load them or whatever14:27
ogra_seb128, mpt  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-October/252272.html ... /me thinks thats a good question, do we intend to have syslog selected by default ?14:28
ogra_now that the world only uses a single file for logging it probably makes sense to have tehh GUI point to it by default14:29
mptogra_, I didn't know that either System Log Viewer or syslog existed :-)14:30
ogra_heh, we install it by default14:30
ogra_or rather gnome does, we inherit14:30
mptWhy does one of its menu titles end with a colon?14:31
seb128ogra_, seems a bug, not sure what you say about syslog, it should have a left pane and a collection of logs14:31
ogra_a bug ... perhaps ?14:31
seb128ogra_, bug #84108514:31
ubot2Launchpad bug 841085 in gnome-utils "Log File Viewer empty" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/84108514:31
seb128ogra_, I will look at it14:31
ogra_oh, cool, there is always already a bug :=14:31
* ogra_ sighs about his typing, why are german keyboards designed in a way that i always end up with hitler smileys when i typo 14:32
kenvandineogra_, and seb128 always finds it14:32
ogra_kenvandine, yeah :)14:32
* kenvandine sucks at searching launchpad for bugs14:32
* ogra_ too14:32
seb128dobey, "if the cache gets corrupted or gsettings doesn't load them or whatever" is not a normal day to day situation though14:33
seb128dobey, yes, if the install is corrupted you will get bugs14:33
seb128it's the same if some lib get corrupted on disk14:33
walterssorry for the user-ish question but i'm curious -  so i have a Lucid VM and I'm getting a bunch of packages prominently listed as NOT AUTHENTICATED in update-manager14:33
seb128walters, seems like you don't have the gpg key that sign the repository for those14:34
dobeyseb128: yes, but it still shouldn't crash. and Our glib patch makes it not crash.14:34
waltersseb128, is the gpg key not installed by default?14:34
seb128walters, what does "apt-key list" say?14:34
seb128walters, it should14:35
seb128walters, is that the normal archive or a ppa? how did you add it?14:35
waltersseb128, http://pastebin.mozilla.org/134711914:35
waltersi haven't installed any PPAs14:35
waltersi could probably revert to my zygote to double check this is reproducible14:35
walters(zygote = immediately after installing a VM i clone it and leave the original untouched)14:36
seb128mvo, ^14:36
waltersit's a pretty scary dialog so14:36
seb128walters, well, try to redo a sudo apt-get update or refresh in update-manager14:37
waltersincidentally i wrote (with a friend) one the original apt-get/gpg integration, so it's interesting to see it today =)14:37
seb128walters, could you copy the error you get or screenshot the dialog?14:37
waltershttp://pastebin.mozilla.org/1347125 has a bit more info, i'm looking for logs14:42
seb128walters, what about sudo apt-get update?14:45
waltersoh man14:45
walterssorry, i totally forgot about the difference14:45
waltersindeed, apt-get upgrade is now happy - maybe update-manager is just working on stale data?14:46
waltersanyways thanks, and sorry for the irc noise14:47
seb128walters, no worry14:47
seb128walters, well sometimes that happens here when I undo an index update14:47
seb128walters, could also happen if the mirror you use is having some issues or you get some connection issue14:47
seb128walters, mvo would know better14:48
xclaesseseb128, is there an easy way to import a debian package into a ppa ?14:48
xclaessecan it be automated, or does it need changes in the packaging?14:48
seb128walters, update-manager should be happy again if the command line, usually the index refresh fixes those transient bugs14:48
seb128xclaesse, you can dget the .dsc, sign it and upload to the ppa14:49
seb128xclaesse, i.e dget the_dsc_url; do a no change source build and upload14:49
chrisccoulsonpitti - g'ah, bug 858683 exists for natty upgraders still, now that natty has the same firefox version as oneiric :/14:50
ubot2Launchpad bug 858683 in firefox "Lost Search engines on upgrade" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/85868314:50
xclaesseseb128, ok let's try. thanx14:50
seb128xclaesse, yw14:50
dobeychrisccoulson: oh yay, another upgrade/migration bug :)14:53
pittiseb128: is there a successor for gnome-open (for URLs), or should programs just call xdg-open?14:55
seb128pitti, gvfs-open, but better to use xdg-open since it's cross desktop14:55
pittiseb128: thanks14:55
seb128pitti, xdg-open will call gvfs-open on GNOME14:55
flacostesince my last oneiric update, i've got a very weird problem with skype14:59
chrisccoulsonpitti - did you see my earlier comment? not sure what i should do, and i have to dash in a couple of minutes ;)14:59
seb128hey flacoste14:59
flacosteand i'm not really sure where to start looking14:59
seb128flacoste, define "very weird problem" to start? ;-)14:59
flacostesure :-)14:59
flacostesounds work with for me14:59
flacostei'm hearing other people14:59
pittichrisccoulson: sorry, I'm not familiar with that bug; why can't the oneiric fix be applied to the natty version as well?14:59
flacostebut they hear me like if i sounded as "max headroom"15:00
flacosteor a remix of electronic music15:00
rickspencer3chrisccoulson,  hey man15:00
flacostemumble and empathy works fine15:00
rickspencer3oops, sorry to interupt15:00
chrisccoulsonpitti - this is the "search engines lost on upgrade" issue due to a change i made in oneiric last week, but it's broken currently for natty -> oneiric upgraders still15:00
* rickspencer3 waits for flacoste to finish15:00
flacosterickspencer3: roger15:01
chrisccoulsoni'm just asking your opinion on what i should do, seeing as i'm still on vacation and about to disappear again in a couple of minutes :)15:01
pittichrisccoulson: could you prepare an SRU next week?15:01
rickspencer3chrisccoulson, who else has the knowledge to fix it?15:01
rickspencer3pitti, sru?15:01
pittichrisccoulson: or are you still on vacation then?15:01
rickspencer3I think we should fix that before ship, surely15:02
rickspencer3that's seems like a glaring issue15:02
pittirickspencer3: well, I suppose it needs to be fixed in oneiric, we can't retroactively fix it in natty15:02
pittirickspencer3: but it's not an install problem, but an upgrade problem15:02
pittirickspencer3: so a 0-day SRU will work just as well15:02
rickspencer3so, natty users are not hitting, it right?15:02
chrisccoulsonrickspencer3, i fixed it right now, i just need to upload it - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/firefox/firefox.head/revision/87615:02
rickspencer3only oneiric users15:02
rickspencer3pitti, it just seems like such a glaring issue15:03
rickspencer3I think it would be a really bad wart to ship15:03
seb128flacoste, not sure somebody will be able to help you there, seems like a skype issue, not something we have control on15:03
pittirickspencer3: it doesn't affect the install images15:03
flacosteseb128: well, it was broken by a new update15:03
flacosteseb128: skype wasn't updated15:03
flacostei'd suspect pulseaudio or kernel15:03
pittirickspencer3, chrisccoulson: but anyway, as you have a fix right now, fine for me to fix it for release; I just wanted to take the pressure out for fixing it15:03
flacosteor something else like that15:03
seb128flacoste, try booting an older kernel? if it's pulse check with TheMuso when he's online15:04
chrisccoulsonpitti - yeah, although the fix is untested, and i don't really have time to test it right this moment15:04
flacosteseb128: ok, thanks for the pointer, i'll try that15:04
pittichrisccoulson: so, let's do a 0-day SRU next week15:04
pittiupgraders won't notice if it's -updates or final15:05
rickspencer3pitti, so when users upgrade, on upgrade, they will only have Ask for a search engine?15:05
rickspencer3oh, I see15:05
pittirickspencer3: no, they'll upgrade straight to the oneiric-updates version15:05
rickspencer3this is why I should never talk15:05
pittithe trick is to have it in -proposed next week, test it, and move it to -updates at the same time as release15:05
pittithat's the standard recipe for fixing upgrade-only bugs without jeopardizing the image builds15:06
chrisccoulsonpitti - ok, that sounds fine15:06
chrisccoulsoni'm annoyed with myself that i didn't think about the natty -> oneiric upgrade path ;)15:06
rickspencer3kenvandine, hey, I thought that the "Nautilus crashes when there is a U1 widget" bug was fixed15:06
kenvandinejames_w, what is the best way to fix an outdated source package branch?15:06
chrisccoulsonand even more annoyed that i discovered it whilst on vacation ;)15:06
rickspencer3hmmm, maybe I need to restart my session15:06
kenvandinerickspencer3, it is...15:06
kenvandineyou do need to restart, but you also might not have gotten the update yet15:07
james_wkenvandine, depends on why it is outdated15:07
james_wkenvandine, which package is of interest here?15:07
kenvandinemirrors might not be caught up15:07
kenvandinejames_w, telepathy-mission-control-515:07
kenvandineit is way out dated, and i hate working on packages without bzr :-D15:07
kenvandinerickspencer3, make sure you have ubuntuone-client-gnome 2.0.115:08
james_wkenvandine, hmm, not sure why that one is out of date15:08
seb128rodrigo_, the calendar bug, one other issue is that gedit is listed as a calendar application, when it's not ;-)15:09
kenvandinea merge-upstream blows up horribly15:09
rodrigo_seb128, yes, just saw it15:09
rodrigo_seb128, seems to be a bug in g_app_info, since it just has text/plain in its .desktop file15:09
james_wkenvandine, oneiric?15:10
kenvandinemerge conflicts all over the place15:10
james_wI don't see it as out of date: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/telepathy-mission-control-5/oneiric/changes/24?start_revid=2415:10
kenvandineoh... wtf15:11
kenvandinemaybe the alias is broken?15:11
pittidobey: seems bug 817656 has reports that it's still happening even with the cherrypicked fix?15:11
ubot2Launchpad bug 817656 in couchdb "[FFE] Please merge couchdb 1.1.0-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81765615:11
kenvandinejames_w, well nm then...15:12
kenvandineit is fine... on tuesday it checked out a 5.8 version15:12
james_wkenvandine, ah, that's possible15:13
kenvandineactually 5.6, it was revision 815:13
kenvandineha... and a bzr pull now updates15:13
kenvandineanyway... i am happy now :)15:14
rodrigo_seb128, it seems to be a bug in gtk_app_chooser_button15:15
* rodrigo_ looks15:15
seb128rodrigo_, or the calendar type is a subtype of text and it consider subtypes?15:16
GunnarHjrodrigo_: Hello Rodrigo, I understand that the purpose of https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/gnome-control-center/non-utf8-confusion/+merge/78140 wasn't all that clearly explained. :(  I added a comment; let me know if you need further clarification.15:18
rodrigo_GunnarHj, ok, looking15:19
rodrigo_GunnarHj, I still don't think that fix is needed, given the fixes in lightdm, right?15:20
GunnarHjrodrigo_: No, they are completely unrelated.15:21
rodrigo_hmm, I misunderstood then, pitti?15:21
pittirodrigo_: right, seems I originally misunderstood it as well15:21
GunnarHjrodrigo_: If you want to see it for yourself, you can do e.g. 'sudo locale-gen en_GB' and open User Accounts.15:22
rodrigo_so, we don't want to show the codeset if it's not UTF-8?15:24
rodrigo_if so, why not remove the check, rather than commenting out the call to get the values and then checking for values we never change?15:25
GunnarHjrodrigo_: It's my understanding that we shouldn't deal with non-utf8 locales from the UI at all.15:26
rodrigo_the check is: if (!is_utf8 && codeset_code) {15:26
rodrigo_GunnarHj, ok, then we need a different fix, which is to ignore non-utf8 locales when loading them, right?15:26
rodrigo_in fact, we already do -> add_locale (names[cnt].name, TRUE);15:28
GunnarHjrodrigo_: Well, in Ubuntu that's what we are doing already. I haven't checked out g-c-c that carefully, but yes, if you load non-utf8 locale names, it should be fixed. At least if I have understood it correctly - you'd better confirm this with somebody before going on.15:28
rodrigo_that TRUE means to only load utf8 locales15:29
GunnarHjrodrigo_: No, that's just an initial value of the variable. Then it checks if the locale name represents a non-utf8 locale, and if it does, changes it to FALSE. The problem exists if your 'locale -a' includes non-utf8 locales.15:31
GunnarHjrodrigo_: Why not install that British latin1 locale? ;-)15:32
rodrigo_GunnarHj, yes, we load non-UTF8 locales from /usr/share/gdm/locale.alias , although that's empty for me15:32
rodrigo_is that the case for the bug?15:32
GunnarHjrodrigo_: Now I don't quite follow you ... Exactly what do you mean by loading?15:33
rodrigo_we add them to the list15:33
rodrigo_to show to the user15:34
GunnarHjrodrigo_: Ok.15:34
rodrigo_oh, but:15:34
rodrigo_#ifdef WITH_INCOMPLETE_LOCALES15:34
rodrigo_        if (utf8_only) {15:34
rodrigo_                if (locale->territory_code == NULL || locale->modifier) {15:34
rodrigo_                        g_debug ("Ignoring '%s' as a locale, since it lacks territory code or modifier", name);15:34
rodrigo_                        gdm_locale_free (locale);15:34
rodrigo_                        return FALSE;15:34
rodrigo_                }15:34
rodrigo_        }15:34
rodrigo_I guess that's a type, and should be #ifndef WITH...15:34
GunnarHjrodrigo_: I'm not enough of a C programmer to have an opinion, I'm afraid.15:35
GunnarHjrodrigo_: For language-selector and the Ubuntu UI of AccountsService we don't load any non-utf8 locales.15:38
GunnarHjrodrigo_: Are you otherwise using gdm-languages.c to look for available locales?15:39
rodrigo_yes, that's what g-c-c does15:39
GunnarHjI see.15:40
GunnarHjrodrigo_: When calling add_locale(), collect_locales_from_archive() sets 'utf8_only' in add_locale() to TRUE. Doesn't that mean that possible non-utf8 locale names are skipped?15:45
GunnarHjrodrigo_: So then you don't need to worry about that side of it, do you?15:46
GunnarHjrodrigo_: The reason why the proposed fix is needed for Ubuntu is that it's not complete locale names that are passed to gdm_get_language_from_name(), but it is language denotations such as 'en_GB' or 'de'.15:49
pittigood night everyone!15:51
GunnarHjrodrigo_: So if there happens to be a locale with an alias that equals the language that is passed to it, it results in the wrong label.15:51
GunnarHjpitti: Good night!15:51
rodrigo_GunnarHj, so, we don't want to show the codeset for any locale at all?15:52
GunnarHjrodrigo_: Correct.15:52
GunnarHjrodrigo_: Since we don't even bother to load the non-utf8 locale names, showing codeset should never be applicable.15:53
=== KenEdwards is now known as KenEdwards-lunch
GunnarHjrodrigo_: So commenting out that function call (or something else to the same effect) should be completely harmless.15:56
dobeypitti: the "book opening" error isn't in couchdb. it's an issue with newer e-d-s. i thought rodrigo_ fixed it though16:04
rodrigo_dobey, what? the same problem again?16:05
rodrigo_GunnarHj, I'm looking, will answer in a bit :)16:05
dobeyrodrigo_: the weird "book already opening" was fixed in couchdb-glib right?16:05
GunnarHjrodrigo_: No hurry.16:06
rodrigo_GunnarHj, you're using en_GB?16:07
rodrigo_dobey, yes16:08
GunnarHjrodrigo_: Not really. I just downloaded it to understand myself what Colin was talking about. :)16:08
dobeyrodrigo_: seems some people still say they get it. though it also seems like some of them may be in other backends16:08
rodrigo_ok, so the problem seems to be really the en_GB locale (and maybe others), which uses ISO-8859-1 codeset instead of UTF-816:09
rodrigo_there is a en_GB.UTF-8 locale also, which is the one that should be used, right?16:09
rodrigo_so, why do we have en_GB and not en_GB.UTF-8?16:10
GunnarHjpls define "we have"16:10
rodrigo_with your patch, we'll show no codeset, but the locale will be en_GB when selected16:10
rodrigo_and that's wrong, isn't it?16:11
GunnarHjWell, no. en_GB will be passed to AccountsService's SetLanguage, which does the right thing.16:11
rodrigo_it sets it to *.UTF-8?16:12
GunnarHjAlways UTF-8.16:12
rodrigo_but we need a better patch anyway, you are just commenting the call, but then doing 2 checks for the variables16:13
rodrigo_so all that should be removed, from the language_name_get_codeset_details call, to the out: line16:13
rodrigo_GunnarHj, I'll do it, don't worry16:13
mdeslaurseb128: Is bug 863038 being targeted to get fixed?16:14
ubot2Launchpad bug 863038 in gnome-screensaver "If turnoff the screen setting set to 'never' screen turns off instantly" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/86303816:14
GunnarHjrodrigo_: Sure, I have no problem if you delete a few lines instead, if you prefer that. Just thought that that kind of cleanup may be a separate exercise.16:14
mterrytedg, heyo.  indicator-appmenu question for you.  I'm trying to find where "entry->label" every get inserted into a container.  (for the IndicatorObjectEntry objects appmenu creates)16:17
tedgmterry, I believe that it's in unity-panel-service16:20
mterrytedg, I looked, but all I could see was it hiding/showing the object.  I didn't see a container add16:21
tedgmterry, Hmm, it might not...16:22
tedgmterry, indicator-applet does.16:22
rodrigo_GunnarHj, ok, so it's the other part of debian/patches/52_ubuntu_language_list_mods.patch that makes it show the codeset16:25
rodrigo_GunnarHj, the upstream version doesn't16:25
rodrigo_also, upstream version only shows languages for the language selection, not locales16:25
rodrigo_GunnarHj, can you please build the g-c-c package with that patch disabled and see what do we need from the patch please?16:26
GunnarHjrodrigo_: With patch 52 disabled?? What do you expect to learn from that?16:28
rodrigo_GunnarHj, that the patch makes the upstream code behave differently :) ?16:28
rodrigo_differently = not deal correctly with the non-utf8 case16:28
rodrigo_GunnarHj, so, given we did several changes in upstream, I'm asking you to test without that patch to see if we're missing something16:30
rodrigo_to remove the patch, if possible16:30
rodrigo_the list of langs I see with or without the patch are the same, so not sure it's needed at all16:31
rodrigo_also, upstream just shows generic language names, and only English (country) when adding new ones16:32
GunnarHjrodrigo_: Hmm... The patch was essential to make it work consistently with language-selector. But sure, I can build without it and take a look, if you like.16:33
rodrigo_yes, please16:34
GunnarHjBut doing such changes now, one day before the release candidate, does not appeal to me. (But I'll check.)16:35
rodrigo_well, we can do it as a SRU16:35
rodrigo_it looks to me like we're trying to patch what we broke with the patch16:35
GunnarHjWith my Ubuntu eyes we didn't break anything with the patch - we prevented it from breaking. :)16:37
rodrigo_GunnarHj, I'm running the vanilla upstream, and nothing is broken AFAICS16:38
rodrigo_and the list of languages is smaller on the initial choice16:38
GunnarHjOk. Disconnecting now to build and check it out.16:39
didrocksok, time for dancing!16:45
didrockssee you guys16:45
seb128mdeslaur, rodrigo_ is supposed to work on it17:16
seb128not sure how much progress he did17:16
seb128rodrigo_, how is the gnome-screensaver diming immediatly on "never" going?17:16
jbichaseb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/ubuntu/oneiric/jockey/update-help-link/+merge/7778217:19
seb128jbicha, thanks!17:19
seb128pitti, ^17:20
seb128jbicha, (pitti is upstream)17:20
jbichaI asked him earlier today about it but I probably didn't speak up loud enough :)17:20
seb128jbicha, days tend to be busy with pings for pitti :p17:21
seb128jbicha, I will make sure with him it's getting merged tomorrow morning17:21
ogra_it works if you wear a pink shirt17:21
pulbhi,  I've found a bug in oneiric which is pretty critical for me but fixing should take minutes (I attached a fix). could someone responsible please have a look and predict if a fix will make it into oneiric? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gconf2/+bug/86461517:56
ubot2Launchpad bug 864615 in gconf2 "Thumbnailers are missing in gconf" [Undecided,New]17:56
dobeypulb: i don't see any reason for that to go into oneiric. it isn't a fix17:59
seb128pulb, it's wrong17:59
seb128oneiric doesn't use gconf17:59
seb128nautilus uses gsettings17:59
dobeyright, libgnome-desktop uses gsettings17:59
pulbseb128: i'm not talking about nautilus17:59
seb128gnome-vfs is also deprecated for years17:59
seb128well, gconf is deprecated18:00
seb128nautilus and other GNOME component use gsettings18:00
dobeyas is static python bindings18:00
pulbseb128: so all gtk2 that make use of that api are deprecated as well=18:00
pulbdobey: thats just a python example18:01
pulbseb128: sure..18:01
seb128you should port your code18:01
dobeypulb: and it is using deprecated code18:01
pulbguys, gtk3 bindings arent available for all languages yet..18:01
kenvandineit isn't just about gtk2 vs gtk318:02
pulband if this is your opinion, why do you ship gconf in the first place?18:02
dobeypulb: what do you mean by all languages?18:03
dobeypulb: there aren't going to be static python bindings18:03
dobeyuse gobject-introspection18:03
pulbdobey: i'm actually not using python18:04
kenvandinegtk2 apps can't use deprecated APIs forever18:04
seb128pulb, gconf still works as it used to work18:04
jbichapulb: for one thing, you haven't pointed us to an app in the repositories that's broken, we can't take full responsibility for third party apps using deprecated code18:04
kenvandineeven gtk2 apps need to be ported if they use the deprecated apis18:04
seb128pulb, it's just that thumbnailers migrated to gtk3 and gsettings18:04
dobeykenvandine: yes they can, otherwise they won't be gtk2 apps any more :)18:04
flacostehow can i change the application used to open PDF application?18:05
flacostei changed it to okular, but that association was lost by a recent upgrade18:05
dobeyflacoste: right-click on a pdf in nautilus and choose "open with" and select your app18:05
kenvandinedobey, i am not ready to say gtk2 is deprecated :)18:05
flacostedobey: how can i change the default18:05
pulbbut the only thumbnail api available in gtk2(-sharp) is broken now: http://developer.gnome.org/gnome-desktop/stable/GnomeDesktopThumbnailFactory.html18:05
flacostei remember a "default application" settings, but can't find it anymore18:06
dobeyflacoste: in the dialog that pops up doing what i said. choose "other"18:06
pulbthere are now gtk3 bindings for c# by now for example18:06
kenvandinethat is from libgnomeui though...18:06
dobeyflacoste: that hasn't been around since gnome 1.x18:06
dobeyerr, well, not one that set a pdf viewer anyway18:06
flacostedobey: well, i remember being able to change that in gnome 2 at least18:06
dobeypulb: the API isn't broken18:07
dobeypulb: there are just no thumbnailers available18:07
pulbdobey: and thats what the bugreport is about18:08
dobeyflacoste: afaik, the only way to set the default handler for pdf files has been through nautilus, or by hand18:08
pulball apps that make use of that api are broken in oneiric18:08
dobeypulb: it's not a bug18:08
kenvandinepulb, what apps use it?18:08
dobeyat least, it's not a bug in ubuntu afaict18:08
flacostedobey: ah, thanks, i found a "Set as default" in nautilus18:08
dobeyit is a bug in some app that apparently requires some other specific version of an app to be installed18:09
flacostethat was the pointer i needed18:09
dobeyflacoste: no problem18:09
pulbkenvandine: e.g. https://launchpad.net/basenji18:09
jbichapulb: oh, it's your app18:10
kenvandinethat isn't oneiric though18:10
kenvandinenot that it means it should be broken :)18:10
kenvandinewe just have no way of knowing it is using the api18:11
pulbkenvandine: thats the problem i'm packaging it for ubuntu/debian18:11
pulbthen i stumbled about that bug18:11
dobeyhow is that app broken?18:11
pulbpackages in the daily ppa won't work in oneiric properly18:12
dobeyspecifics please.18:12
pulbno more previews for indexed media anymore18:12
pulbas seen here: http://www.shockshit.net/basenji/screenshots/basenji05-mainwindow_2.png18:13
dobeypulb: do you have libgnome2-common installed?18:15
pulbdobey: hmm have to check that18:16
dobeywas your screenshot link a working, or non-working, example?18:17
pulbdobe libgnome2-common is installed18:20
pulbthat sreenshot shows a  working example :-)18:21
pulbdobey: but pictures are actually still working, but movies, documents etc arent18:22
dobeyright, because images are done inside gtk+ directly18:23
dobeywel, most images are18:23
dobeysome aren't18:23
dobeyhowever, it seems your problem is a blind reliance on functionality from specific versions of external applications18:24
pulbits a reliance of GtkThumbnailFactory18:24
dobeyno, because that works fine18:24
pulbthe responsible apps are actually installed18:24
pulb(e.g totem-thumbnailer)18:25
pulbdobey: not in gtk218:25
dobeyyes it does18:25
dobeyworks, and gives you the results you think you should get, are not necessarily the same18:25
dobeyif you think totem 3.x should install settings for old gconf still, perhaps you should file upstream bug reports18:26
dobeyas it seems that is where your problem lies18:26
dobeybut i suspect the answer will be "port your app to the new stuff"18:27
dobeygranted, the upstream fix is trivial18:27
pulbdobey: there are no gtk3 bindings yet18:27
pulbthats why even banshee still uses gtk218:28
dobeynot entirely true18:28
pulbok, but its wip18:28
pulbnot packaged18:28
dobeythere is a gtk3 port of banshee18:28
pulbdobey: yes but the dependencies (gtk3-sharp) are not packaged yet18:29
dobeyyes, but your bug against gconf2 isn't an issue with gconf, and your hack that makes it work for you, isn't a fix18:30
dobeythe api you are using works fine. it just does not give the same results you got running on a gnome2 system because gnome3 changed things18:31
pulbdobey: it's not a hack, those are proper keys comming with natty18:31
dobeyit's a hack. all you did was dump your gconf tree18:31
pulbits not gnome3 related, its a incomplete gnom2 stack install18:31
pulbthe proper gconf tree18:32
dobeyoneiric doesn't use gnome 218:32
dobeyyour problem is you have totem 3.x instead of totem 2.x18:32
pulbit shippes the gnome2 api, side by side to gnome318:32
pulbno, its working with totem 318:33
pulbits just the missing mapping in gconf18:33
dobeyno, totem 3 doesn't use gconf18:34
dobeybecause it is deprecated18:34
seb128dobey, well it doesn't need to use gconf18:35
pulbtrue, it doesnt, but GtkThumbnailFactory uses gconf to get the mapping from mimetype to totem 318:35
seb128the api just look to gconf keys and call the commands in there18:35
dobeyseb128: it could probably install the schema for the thumbnailers still though18:35
seb128pulb, well in any case it's not a bug in gconf18:35
dobeyseb128: and it doesn't becuase gconf is dead as far as gnome is concerned18:35
seb128pulb, it's a request for each thumbnailer which switched to gsettings to ship back a gconf schemas with those keys18:36
pulbdobey: you cant say its dead yet18:36
pulbthere are a lot apps relying on it, even gtk3 apps18:36
dobeypulb: upstream gnome does not use gconf any more.18:36
seb128pulb, well they stopped using gconf so they will not add back gconf schemas18:37
seb128we need a gconf-thumbnailer-schemas-compat source18:37
pulbok, but that does not appy to all other apps out there18:37
dobeyand totem doesn't have to provide those. mplayer could install a thumbnailer just as well as totem could18:37
seb128pulb, well it's an issue but we are in hard freeze and it's late now to fix it18:38
pulbi'm just saying that those thumbnailers should still be available to the gtk2 apu18:38
kenvandinewhich is why seb128's solution would work18:39
pulbbecause currently the gtk2 GThumbnailFactory is broken without the mapping18:39
kenvandinebut we are in hard freeze now18:39
dobeypulb: it is NOT broken.18:39
kenvandinedobey, choice of words, it doesn't find any thumbnailers18:39
pulbkenvandine, seb128: ok, do you think there will be a fix after release?18:39
dobeykenvandine: well, it finds the ones that are registered with it18:40
seb128pulb, we need to think to what the proper way to fix that is18:40
kenvandinedobey, yes... agreed18:40
dobeykenvandine: the fact that nothing is registering with it, doesn't mean it is broken18:40
dobeykenvandine: it works the same as it did in lucid, if you didn't have any of those apps installed.18:40
kenvandinedobey, you and pulb are just looking at the same coin from opposite sides :)18:40
seb128dobey, right, well what he's saying is that i.e totem should still register in gconf for all applications using the deprecated thumbnailer api18:40
pulbdobey: let's call it... useless18:40
seb128not sure how to solve that best18:43
seb128but I don't want to add gconf schemas back to application that stop using gconf18:43
seb128especially if we try to drop gconf from the default installation next cycle18:43
dobeyseb128: SRU partial schema back in for thumbnailer bits only as a vendor patch?18:44
seb128dobey, still that would add a depends on gconf to those binaries since they need to register the schemas18:45
pulbseb128: oneirci+1 shouldn't be affected, because up 2 date langbindings should be available by then. its up to the developers to fix their apps then18:45
dobeyseb128: do they need a Depends? just having the file should trigger the gconf on postinst right?18:45
pulbwhat about a gnome-2-legacy package that fixes those issues?18:45
dobeybecause it won't fix those issues18:46
dobeyit really has to be done in each app that provides a thumbnailer18:46
mptIf Nautilus has a "Segmentation fault (core dumped)", where can I find that core?18:46
dobeympt: in the .crash file for it in /var/crash ?18:47
flacosteany reason why the 'Spelling menu' now be disabled in thunderbird?18:55
seb128flacoste, what spelling menu?19:02
flacosteseb128: in the compose window, thre is a spelling icon allowing to select language19:14
flacosteit's now disabled19:14
flacostebut this was working before my last update19:14
seb128flacoste, could be an issue with the translations updates, not sure19:32
seb128chrisccoulson is out this week19:32
seb128tb didn't change but we got new langpacks yesterday19:32
kenvandinenow i need to google pangolin19:32
micahgflacoste: wfm, there needs to be some text in teh context you're in19:34
jbichakenvandine: but at least I didn't need a dictionary for the adjective like I did for Natty & Oneiric19:36
flacostemicahg, seb128: PEBKAC, it's just disabled when the cursor is in the subject, the menu works fine when i click in the body19:41
flacosteso i guess thunderbird doesn't allow you to customize the dictionary for the message subject19:41
flacosteactually, right-clicking allows me to change the language in the subject19:41
flacosteso a minor ui bug i guess19:41
micahgflacoste: sure, feel free to file it19:43
GunnarHjrodrigo_: Still there?20:08
flacostehow does one access the boot menu?20:36
flacosteesc doesn't seem to work anymore20:36
flacostealso, 'Restart' not actually working is a known bug right?20:36
kenvandinerestart works for me20:37
kenvandineflacoste, you hold down the shift key20:37
kenvandinefor grub20:37
flacosteok thanks20:37
flacostei'll give this a try20:37
flacosteis it possible to see what packages were updated in my recent upgrade?20:50
flacosteTheMuso: around?20:50
TheMusoflacoste: Yes.20:51
flacosteTheMuso: seb128 suggested you might be able to help me, I've got a sound issue in skype after i upgraded a bunch of packages yesterday20:53
flacosteTheMuso: it was working fine before, and sounds work fine in empathy and mumble after the update20:53
flacosteTheMuso: for more amusement, Skype Test Call works fine for me, but everyone else hear me like i'm Max Headroom20:54
flacostewell, a garbled version of Max Headroom20:54
flacostei'm running Ubuntu 64bits20:54
TheMusoflacoste: Ah, yes this is known. There is an issue with the way skype checks for the library version of pulse, and since switching to 1.0, upstream accidentally changed things such that it broke skype. There is a fix in upstrea git, its just a matter of pushing it through as an SRU, or if the release gods think it important, it could be pushed through prior to final release.20:54
flacosteTheMuso: thank you very much!20:54
* flacoste is very happy to know that skype will be fixed relatively soon20:55
flacosteTheMuso: is there a bug i can subscribe to?20:56
TheMusoflacoste: There has been a bug filed about this issue, give me a bit to dig up the bug number./20:56
TheMusoflacoste: bug 86582020:58
ubot2Launchpad bug 865820 in pulseaudio "Mic only works when pulseaudio sound settings open with skype" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/86582020:58
=== warp11 is now known as warp10
flacosteTheMuso: thanks21:02
flacostethere is even a work-around, even better!21:04
flacosteso my restart not working is bug 83879221:15
ubot2Launchpad bug 838792 in gnome-session ""Restart" logs out, even when there are no other people logged in" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83879221:15
TheMusoflacoste: Seems the patch I was referring to has already been uploaded. Please check that you have pulseaudio 1.0-0ubuntu2.21:40
flacoste  Installed: 1:1.0-0ubuntu221:41
TheMusohrm ok then.21:41
flacosteTheMuso: so it doesn't look like it fixes the issue :-/21:41
flacostethe same work-around works though21:41
flacosteif i open the sound settings, the other side hears me fine21:41
flacosteother it doesn't21:41
flacostewhich is why the Skype Test Call was working21:42
flacostei was always opening it to make sure that the input/output flags were fine :-)21:42
* bryceh runs into bug #86152722:30
ubot2Launchpad bug 861527 in gnome-icon-theme-symbolic "package gnome-icon-theme-symbolic 3.1.4-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/icons/gnome/scalable/status/keyboard-brightness-symbolic.svg', which is also in package gnome-power-manager 3.1.90-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/86152722:30
brycehlooks like it's trying to upgrade gnome-icon-theme-symbolic before gnome-power-manager.22:35
brycehguess it needs a Breaks22:38
RAOFI think you mean either a Replaces or a Conflicts, don't you?  Breaks won't prevent it from being unpacked before the upgrade?22:42
brycehRAOF, not sure, but from reading 7.3 at http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html it sounds like Breaks would do it, no?22:42
bryceh"When one binary package declares that it breaks another, dpkg will refuse to allow the package which declares Breaks to be unpacked unless the broken package is deconfigured first, and it will refuse to allow the broken package to be reconfigured. "22:43
RAOFdeconfigured doesn't mean its files have been removed from the system, though, right?22:45
brycehoh, you're right - "If the breaking package also overwrites some files from the older package, it should use Replaces to ensure this goes smoothly."22:46
=== m_conley is now known as m_conley_away
brycehhmm, actually http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-replaces suggests both Replaces and Breaks22:47
jasoncwarner_hey RAOF , did you see the notes about the bug mark was having last night (in the backscroll)?22:48
jasoncwarner_robert_ancell: when do you leave?22:48
robert_ancelljasoncwarner_, 11:30 tomorrow22:48
jasoncwarner_ah, nice.22:48
jasoncwarner_seb128 mentioned he needed something from you for lightdm. were you and he able to connect?22:49
robert_ancelljasoncwarner_, I haven't got any email about anything22:51
jasoncwarner_didrocks were you and mark able to connect about his problem with Unity starting?22:52
jasoncwarner_robert_ancell: let me find the backscroll...one sec22:52
RAOFjasoncwarner_: In the backscroll of #ubuntu-x?  Yeah.  I'll take over from tjaalton if need be (although we do not seem to have got the requested debugging info yet).22:53
jasoncwarner_robert_ancell: it was the consolekit not starting properly. seb128 , you still online?22:53
jasoncwarner_Thanks, RAOF22:54
TheMusojasoncwarner_: No he is not.22:55
brycehRAOF, this look sane?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/703047/22:56
RAOFbryceh: Looks sane.22:59
RAOFOh, urgh.  What's happened to my indicators?  They disappear on ButtonRelease.23:04
brycehmy wife had a good question... why is the trash icon on the dock bar?23:06
brycehyou can't seem to drag files onto it (we couldn't anyway)23:06
RAOFI guess so that you can access it, but failure to be a DND target is a bit weird.23:07
brycehyeah that's what we concluded.  But there's a trash icon in the nautilus window easily accessible (which does accept files dragged in), so seems superfluous23:08
brycehshe thought that it was how you deleted icons from the dock, which I guess would be kinda cool23:08
bryceh(but bad ui if you need to delete stuff so much that you need a trash can visible to clean it up!)23:08
jasoncwarner_robert_ancell: bug #851345 I think that was one seb128 was talking about.23:09
ubot2Launchpad bug 851345 in lightdm "compiz crashes on i915 graphic module with GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap is missing" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/85134523:09
RAOFAgain with the ConsoleKit?23:13
robert_ancellRAOF, I *think* what may be happening is lightdm has crashed for some reason, and CK automatically removes the CK sessions when that happens, so there is a flow on effect23:14
robert_ancelljibel has dmesg showing lightdm was killed by SIGABRT, but there's no indication why that is23:15
robert_ancellI pretty sure the ~/.xsession-errors is a red herring23:15
RAOFThis sounds like a job for gdb.23:16
robert_ancellI was playing around with killing X in strange ways to see if that caused lightdm to fail, but it seems pretty happy to handle that23:16
RAOFI wonder if my netbook can reproduce it.23:17
popeyanyone know what package a keyboard layout issue would go against, in GNOME ubuntu 11.10?23:18
brycehpopey, depends on the type of issue, but xkeyboard-config has the layout data23:19
popeyits a layout issue, none of the layouts actually match the one in front of me23:19
brycehpopey, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xkeyboard-config23:21
brycehpopey, see bug #750469 for some directions on getting a layout added23:21
popeyi tried ubuntu-bug xkeyboard-config and it says that doesnt exist23:21
ubot2Launchpad bug 750469 in xkeyboard-config "can't find my keyboard layout even in 11.04 !!" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/75046923:21
brycehpopey, yeah that's the source package name23:21
popeywell, here's the tricky thing23:22
popeythe layout _is_ there23:22
brycehtry ubuntu-bug xkb-data23:22
popeybut I have to press the key then space to get the character23:22
popeylike " or ~23:22
RAOFOh, you've got deadkeys enabled.23:23
brycehyeah sounds like it23:23
RAOF"e results in ?, right?23:23
popeyi get an accented e23:23
RAOFYeah, you've got a keyboard layout with deadkeys selected.23:24
brycehpopey, in Keyboard Preferences > Layouts > Options check Compose key position23:24
popeynone are ticked23:24
brycehok, then it's set in the layout itself23:25
brycehpopey, so far you've not mentioned what the layout in question actually is?23:25
RAOFWhat is the layout that ?Keyboard Layout? says you have?23:25
popeyUK Apple23:25
popeySo choosing English (UK, Macintosh International) gets me the right layout23:26
popeybut with this deadkeys thing23:26
popeychoosing English (UK, Macintosh) it gives me a wrong layout, but no deadkeys23:26
brycehyeah 'International' == 'with deadkeys'23:26
popeyis it possible to switch this deadkeys thing off for this layout?23:26
popeybecause itś kinda annoying23:26
brycehpopey, well, that's why I had you check the Layout Options23:27
popeysorry, should I have ticked something in there?23:27
brycehpopey, possibly it'll need another macintosh variant23:27
brycehpopey, no23:28
RAOFYeah, sounds like we need a (UK, Macintosh International no dead keys) to go along with all our other no-dead-keys variant.23:28
* bryceh nods23:28
popeyi cant see how any uk english person would want this deadkeys on23:28
popeyi can see a european (fr, de, se) person might for all the accents23:28
RAOFpopey: How else will you spell caf? correctly? :)23:29
RAOFOr, rather, this sounds like what we *actually* need is for deadkeys to be moved out of the layout and into a toggleable option.23:29
popeybah, just killed compiz ⍨23:29
popeyI'm guessing this wont happen for 11.10?23:30
RAOFThere's probably an SRU for your compiz crash :/23:30
popeyi kinda meant the keyboard of course ☺23:31
=== eeejay_is_afk is now known as eeejay
brycehpopey, I wouldn't say that... xkeyboard-config patches tend to be pretty straightforward and low risk, so no particular reason it shouldn't go into 11.1023:32
RAOFIt'd be pretty easy to do that patch.23:33
brycehwe might need you to do a bit of text file editing23:33
popeythats fine23:33
brycehthe layouts are in /usr/share/X11/xkb23:33
brycehtrying to find where the macintosh international one is23:33
brycehvery warm23:34
RAOF /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/us23:35
popeyfor uk?23:36
popeythat would be symbols/gb23:36
popeylots of dead_ stuff23:37
brycehyeah hack on that until you got something you're happy with, then post that file to  a bug report, and ping me or raof23:37
brycehwe probably ought to run it by upstream before sru'ing it, but that usually goes fairly smoothly23:38
popeycan i make a new layout? based on the existing one?23:38
popeycopy and paste the segment23:38
popeycool, thanks for the help chaps!23:38
brycehthat should be fine23:38
RAOFYou might want to check out ?English (international AltGr dead keys)? from us23:38
brycehlet's just doublecheck this work hasn't already been done upstream... one sec23:39
popeydoes xkb_symbols need to be unique?23:40
popeyor just the name[group]='foo' bit?23:40
brycehnot sure offhand23:40
popeyok, will fiddle23:41
popeyand does x need restarting to take effect?23:41
RAOFI don't _think_ so.23:41
brycehmaybe refresh the xkb cache?23:41
brycehmight need to restart gnome-settings-daemon or something for it to show up in the UI.  not sure23:41
brycehyep, looks like we're up to date with upstream on symbols/gb23:44
popeyhmm. logged out and back in23:47
popeydont see it in the selection list23:47
brycehyeah xkb cache probably23:48
brycehxkb cache files are /var/lib/xkb/*.xkm23:49
brycehRAOF, do we have a handy way to refresh the xkb cache, or just delete those files?23:50
RAOFHm.  X *should* regenerate them when the files they cache change, but that would be on server startup.23:51
dinghamDoes anyone here have much experience with pulseaudio & multicast? In particular, why it might affect the packets & routig on my local network whilst it's broadcasting...23:51
brycehpopey, oh btw 'xkbcomp symbols/gb' would be handy for testing your layout23:52
brycehmight be enough to refresh the cache too, not sure23:53
popeydeleted the xkm files, rebooted23:58
popeycant see the layout change in the UI23:59
brycehthis looks cool - http://simos.info/blog/archives/74723:59

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