Cheeseheadvalorie: Thank you for that quite unexpected +1 on my rant02:09
valorieyou are most welcome -- honest speech is always welcome02:16
akgranerHey all - hope your morning is going well...I am going to re-send invitations to all the leadership councils in the community the invitation to join this team...I think it's important that we are all working together in this effort09:59
head_victimakgraner: there were some interesting things brought up in the CC meeting earlier about leadership as well you might want to read10:00
akgranerhead_victim, I know10:01
akgranerI read it all and have already send emails to some folks and working on a blog post now :-)10:01
head_victimakgraner: cool, just checking, figured it might be useful/relevant :)10:01
akgranercompletely :-)10:02
* head_victim has a habit of reading scrollbacks a bit too much10:02
akgranersorry didn't mean to be short - need to find my coffee cup...10:02
head_victimCoffee is always high on my priority list as well so don't stress, as long as it's found10:02
akgranertotally :-)10:02
* bkerensa works on Ubuntu Oregon's Ocelot T-shirt designs16:01
bkerensaindeed fun :(16:04
bkerensaso much backlog of stuff to do16:05
akgraneralways :-)16:21
YoBoYbkerensa: doing a tshirt for each release ?17:33
bkerensaYeah thats the plan17:34
bkerensaand every global jam17:34
* bkerensa also will try and have catering provided for every release party and global jam17:34
YoBoYyes, it's expense to make one time tshirts :]17:37
YoBoYc'est cher quoi :D17:37
bkerensaYoBoY: $200-$300 each time17:40
YoBoYpaid by the team or the participants ?17:42
YoBoYcool :)17:43
YoBoYwe don't have sponsors in France :] perhaps we are doing something wrong ^^"17:45
Cheeseheadbkerensa: Sponsors pay for the shirts directly, or donate funds to the group?18:04
Cheeseheadbkerensa: (Where in Oregon? I grew up in Portland)18:05
YoBoYbkerensa: how many tshirts do you make each time ?18:18
bkerensa10 to 15 depends on the design (because cost varies by design)18:21
bkerensaCheesehead: They pay directly.... We do not accept any funds :)18:22
bkerensaCheesehead: Our release party will be in Portland at Backspace or Ground Kontrol18:22
bkerensaCheesehead: However I'm encouraging various other users in rural areas to kickstart Ubuntu Hours18:23
Cheeseheadbkerensa: We're trying to grow Ubuntu Hours across Wisconsin, too.18:25
YoBoYok easier to sponsor a small quantity I suppose :)18:25
CheeseheadYoBoY: Direct payment from sponsor to vendor has a tax advantage in the US, especially if the sponsored group is not regiesteered with those tax authorities!18:27
CheeseheadFor example, my store sponsored 40 T-shirts for a school class. Direct payment to vendor makes it an "Advertising & Promotion" expense on the tax form. Donation to the school would make it a "Charitable Contribution", for which the audit requirements are quite strict.18:28
Cheesehead(US only)18:29
YoBoYclearly, but I need to find sponsors to make around 150 tshirts, it's a just more difficult :D18:31
CheeseheadDepends on the advertising budget of the sponsor.18:31
CheeseheadMost places I'm familiar with have setup-cost + cost-per-shirt. 150 is doable in my budget every two years or so, and my store is *tiny*.18:33
charlie-tcaInstead of asking one sponsor for 150, ask 15 for 10 tshirts each18:33
CheeseheadI'm usually more concerned about the shirt quality - lousy thin shirt reflects poorly on us.18:33
YoBoYcharlie-tca: and my time machine? where is this awesome time machine to let me do that ? :D18:34
CheeseheadWhat does the sponsor get? Logo on the back?18:34
charlie-tcaI have them put their logo on the backs, myself. It gives them free advertising for a long time.18:35
CheeseheadProblem with backside is then you pay double the setup cost. That adds up fast on small orders.18:37
YoBoY150 tshirts, every 6 month, for the volunteers (and with a model for women ;) ) with no other logo than Ubuntu  (and just a small ubuntu-fr.org, new team guidelines, the product first)18:37
charlie-tcathis is true, too18:37
charlie-tcaYoBoY: that seems like a lot to ask for18:38
CheeseheadYoBoY: What about blank shirts, and a button or badge instead of silkscreening?18:38
bkerensaCheesehead: American Apparel Shirts for the win18:38
YoBoYCheesehead: blank shirts ? no fun :]18:39
CheeseheadJust thinking options.18:39
CheeseheadAmerican Apparel shirts can be good. My preferred embroiderer/silkscreener uses them.18:40
YoBoYour last tshirt http://www.flickr.com/photos/rock-n-pol/5916332733/in/photostream/lightbox/ B&C 150g18:41
bkerensaYoBoY: It is surprisingly cheaper to have shirts made ourself then buy from Canonical18:43
CheeseheadYoBoY: I totally agree that your group is big enough and organized enough to need printed shirts.18:43
CheeseheadIf you want a sponsor to mass-buy all 150, what should they get out of it?18:44
YoBoYbkerensa: yes18:44
CheeseheadI like the photo. Great shirt design!18:44
YoBoYCheesehead: don't know...18:45
YoBoYthe design is really simple, if you want it, i can give you ^^18:45
YoBoYwe have also this black model http://enventelibre.org/t-shirt-ubuntu-noir-special-101018:45
* Cheesehead ducks out for a couple hours18:47
YoBoYbkerensa: I asked a discount to buy 150 official lanyard in May, and they responded me they don't do that, it's the store price or nothing ^^18:53
bkerensaYoBoY: Did you have to ask Canonical to sell shirts?18:54
YoBoYwe have an old agreement yes18:54
charlie-tcaand now... I present the Precise Pangolin, destined to become Xubuntu 12.04 LTS19:18
ashamsakgraner: Hi, is it planned to add further information to Chapter 6, ex. giving more info on each on communication means at it's end?20:37
akgranerashams, there is more information needed for all the chapters20:38
akgranerI was hoping to get chapters 1 and 2 done before UDS so I  that there are completed chapters to use to teach me to add stuff to NZR20:38
akgranerbzr even20:38
ashamswill take a look on both20:39
akgranerthen I can create a how to based on that - and then everyone will know how to do it20:39
akgranerashams, please free to add information20:40
akgraneror point to resources you think would be good to use for a chapter20:40
ashamscan I add a new chapter too? I'm thinking of something like case studies describing some problems a team leader may run through and suggested solutions, what you think?20:41
akgranerashams, proofing and feedback of course is needed too20:41
CheeseheadI suggest adding case studies to the existing chapters.20:41
akgranerashams, yep  I was think those would be good for appendix information20:41
Cheesehead(Since that's what I already did)20:42
ashamsgr8 :)20:42
akgranerso make it an appendix  - I think one or two in a chapter is fine - others should be in an appendix and in an online resource20:42
ashamsakgraner: yeah, I second this20:42
akgranerbut that's just the editor in me - :-)20:43
ashamscase studies on each chapter will take a lot of time, Cheesehead , what you think?20:43
akgraneryes  - a lot...20:43
akgranerbut that can be added over time20:44
akgranerremember this isn't something that needs to be done all at once20:44
ashamsyes but also keeping in mind that a lot of ppl in a need for this :)20:44
akgranergetting the core information in is important then we just add to it as people can...this way we don't add to much pressure onto those helping - feel free to create Appendix Foo Chapter Bar20:45
akgranerashams, totally20:45
Cheeseheadashams: I think akgraner has put together an excellent skeleton for us to flesh out. Whether examples go in a chapter or an appendix is really the editor's preference.20:45
CheeseheadSince the editor is akgraner, I defer.20:45
akgranerCheesehead, people can add stuff wherever and in the final stages we can flesh it out20:46
ashamsHey, I think there's some kind of misunderstanding20:46
ashamsI wasn't talking about examples20:46
akgranerI'm not picky - (yet) :-)  I am just excited and encouraged by everyones enthusiasm and willingness to help out20:47
ashamsbut, about a a problems that existed locos ran through and possible solutions20:47
ashamssome problems*20:47
akgranerashams, nods - but the problem is some haven't voiced these problems20:47
* Cheesehead is confused by the difference20:48
ashamsI mean when things go bad and leaders can't deal with it20:48
akgranerso I am going to ask the loco contacts/ loco council to help document those  - I'll cc you on the email if you'd like to help sorting that out20:48
akgranerCheesehead, some things are this has occurred20:48
ashamsakgraner: sure20:48
akgranerothers are this might happen here's how to prepare20:48
CheeseheadSo...examples of things that have gone wrong?20:49
ashamsCheesehead: yeah20:49
ashamsand how to fix it20:49
* Cheesehead seems to understand better now20:49
akgranerslight difference20:50
ashamsyes, but should we add it to each chapter on somewhere else?20:50
akgranerashams, I'll work on that over the next day or two20:50
akgranerlet's just add them separately then we can work them into the chapters20:51
CheeseheadCase studies of that sort are precisely what I hope to bring to the IRC workshops as well20:51
akgraner(as needed)20:51
akgranerCheesehead, I love the online workshop ideas20:51
CheeseheadAlways nice to be able to re-use good material20:51
DarkwingDuckakgraner: Quick publishing question for you.20:52
Cheeseheadakgraner: When I have time later this week, I plan to get more aggressive about recruiting some trainers.20:52
akgranerCheesehead, nice!  Let me know how I can help :-)  I am working on open getting through open week right now20:52
akgranerDarkwingDuck, shoot20:53
DarkwingDuckakgraner: when submitting an ad. Does Ubuntu User require the color and percision markers on the edges and corners?20:53
akgranerdepends on what it's for...but generally not20:54
akgranerwhat ad are you submitting  - print or online?20:54
DarkwingDuckOkay. It's a full page ad for SCALE. :) Want a sneek peek?20:54
DarkwingDuckPrint I believe.20:55
akgranerahhh - and of course...20:55
DarkwingDuckIt's still SVG but, I'm getting it ready for print once it's 100% approved. http://people.ubuntu.com/~david.wonderly/SCaLE10/Ads/UbuntuUser.svg20:56
ashamsDarkwingDuck: it's nice :)20:57
DarkwingDuckI have not done any graphic design for almost 10 years. Feels good to get back into it.20:58
akgranerI love SCALE20:58
DarkwingDuckMe too.20:58
akgranerit's one of my favorite events to 1) speak at 2) attend 3) interview the planners20:58
akgranerwhich reminds me I need to submit my talk20:59
DarkwingDuck:) I'm doing most of the graphic planning this year.20:59
akgranerthat's great20:59
akgranerthose folks are an awesome group20:59
DarkwingDuckYes they are.20:59
DarkwingDuckYou coming in January Amber?20:59
akgranerashams, back to your question - just create either an appendix or New Chapter21:00
akgranerit's a quick fix no matter how we decide to incorporate and use them. :-)  thank you for being willing to work on this part21:00
akgranerDarkwingDuck, yep21:01
akgranerHoping my talk will get picked up21:02
DarkwingDuckakgraner: woot!21:02
akgranerI am submitting a few....21:02
ashamsakgraner: thanks, I'll create a list of cases on 2-3 next days then start working on them21:02
akgranertoo many ideas :-) I want to talk about21:02
akgranerashams, great!  thank you and I'll CC you on the email and tell people you are the POC but that they an drop in here or the mailing list etc  - but sometimes just having a POC makes people feel easier with submissions etc21:03
akgranersome people will want to talk about things but may not want their name associated with the problem21:04
akgranerso they will have to know if they ask for confidentially that it will be respected21:04
akgraner(not saying you wouldn't - just mentioning you may get/see some of that)21:04
ashamsnp at all, it will be fully respected and handled with care, would you please hint for this in the email?21:06
ashamsjust mention that they can reply privately whenever needed21:07
akgranerwill do :-)21:08
NRWlionhey there21:33
NRWlionakgraner: ping21:34
=== DarkwingDuck is now known as Darkwing
=== Darkwing is now known as DarkwingDuck
=== DarkwingDuck is now known as Darkwing
DarkwingDisney has formally requested that I stop using the trademarked name DarkwingDuck.23:00
akgranerha your first cease and desist go you!23:02
valoriedid they write you a letter or something?23:05
DarkwingThey called me.23:05
CheeseheadThe standard used to be consumer confusion (see Apple Records v. Apple Computer)23:06
CheeseheadIf you're simply using the name as an online alias, they are just bullying and have no real standing.23:07
Cheesehead(I am not licensed to practice law in Califonria)23:08
valorieindeed -- how are you making money from it?23:08
valorieyou aren't23:08
valoriethat said, you have a family and probably don't want to risk legal action23:09
DarkwingDarkwing isn't trademarked and so I'm using it.23:09
CheeseheadHave them mail you a letter, then forward it to your favorite TV stations.23:10
Cheesehead...purely for the entertainment value, of course.23:10
DarkwingNope.. I dont' want to be a pain.23:10
CheeseheadDrat. I was going to make you into *real* trademark-defying logo.23:12
* Cheesehead hits the delete key23:12
valorieagainst the unholy corporate DRM alliance?23:17
* Darkwing sighs23:18
DarkwingThis nick is everywhere.23:18
DarkwingGPG, SSH, Wow...23:18
* Cheesehead debates changing his nick to ScroogeMcDuck23:19
CheeseheadOr perhaps ScroogeMcDuck{$obscenity}23:20
* Cheesehead decides to stick to TheHamburglar23:20
CheeseheadWhat about DarkwingDuckNotTheDisneyOne ?23:32
CheeseheadOkay, I'm dropping it.23:33
DarkwingI wonder if I need to do something with darkwingduck.org....23:34
CheeseheadYes, offer to sell it.23:34
knomefor $10 billion.23:35
CheeseheadHonestly, you need change nothing. From your (limited) description, the trademark holders must prove they attempted to enforce it. But they are very unlikely to sue - you are making no money from the trademarked phrase, and there is no consumer confusion23:37
CheeseheadSo they did what they must.23:37
CheeseheadBut that doesn;t mean you must do what they want.23:38
CheeseheadSleep tonight unworried by this. It will make a great party story someday, and very likely no more.23:39
CheeseheadConversely, they have much to lose.23:40
DarkwingOr, I can just change and be a the nice guy :)23:41
DarkwingI've actually changed 99% of everything already.23:41
CheeseheadIf they hire you, it would be cheaper than suing you...23:41
* Cheesehead admits it's easy to be aggressive if your'e not the one staring at an open-ended lawsuit from a multi-billion-dollar corporation 23:44
* Cheesehead would probably do exactly what Darkwing is doing23:45
Darkwinghehehe. They didn't threaten me. They actually kinda requested that I change.23:45
DarkwingHopy crud!23:48
DarkwingSteve Jobs is dead.23:48
* Cheesehead offers a respectful moment of silence23:49
akgranerSteve Jobs Dies: Apple Chief Created Personal Computer, iPad, iPod - http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/steve-jobs-apple-ceo-dies/story?id=1438381323:49
DarkwingSay waht you want about methodoligy... He was a true visionary.23:50
akgranerthat he was!23:50

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