[07:23] <dpm> kelemengabor, good morning. I've fixed evolution-data-server and evolution-exchange by moving the templates out of the way (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTranslationsCoordinators/Actions/LpTemplateAdministration#Moving_templates_out_of_the_way) - they were affected by the same bug as the main evo package. We should watch the queue in the next few hours to see if that causes the PO files to get imported. I've checked out the list of templates and I
[07:23] <dpm>  think were the only ones left to fix due to this bug
[07:23] <kelemengabor> dpm: thanks!
[07:32] <kelemengabor> dpm: looks like one round of templates was approved, about 80 and 70 of the 250 total, so far so good
[07:33] <dpm> kelemengabor, ah, awesome, evolution-exchange seems to be done with approvals as well (the remaining po files there are for languages we either don't have in LP or that we don't have a mapping for)
[07:57] <dpm> and now all files have been approved
[08:12] <kelemengabor> dpm: can we have a new report on the unknown domains? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTranslationsCoordinators/OngoingProjects/UnknownDomains
[08:12] <kelemengabor> I just found that alacarte was moved to universe:
[08:12] <kelemengabor> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/alacarte
[08:12] <kelemengabor> and its template is not disabled yet
[08:13] <kelemengabor> and my gut feeling says there is surely a few more templates like this
[08:18] <dpm> kelemengabor, yeah, good point. I'll see if the langpacks from yesterday generated the log, otherwise, I'm not sure we'll be able to fix this before Thursday
[08:18] <dpm> generally this kind of log is best generated with full langpack exports
[08:19] <dpm> but the one on Thursday will be too late already, as the last export will have happened already, and even if we fix the templates, the changes won't appear until the first post-release langpack
[08:19] <dpm> give me 5 mins, I'm cleaning up the imports queue right now
[08:22] <kelemengabor> gotta run, bye
[11:33] <artnay> dpm: nice work with stats! what's the update interval?
[11:34] <dpm> artnay, thanks :-) they're updated every day at 12:00 UTC, so the next update will be in ~30 minutes
[11:35] <artnay> dpm: ok, you might want to mention that on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Stats#UbuntuTranslationStatistics
[11:42] <sagaci> why aren't libreoffice, firefox and thunderbird available to translate?
[11:45] <dpm> sagaci, because we don't have the infrastructure to translate them in Launchpad unfortunately. They all use their own translations format, not compatible with gettext, which is what Launchpad fully supports
[11:46] <sagaci> ah ok so is it possible to somehow just translate them upstream and have that work included in ubuntu?
[11:51] <artnay> sagaci: by participating to upstream work, yes.
[11:52] <artnay> libreoffice uses pootle and welcomes new contributors
[11:52] <sagaci> :)
[11:53] <artnay> firefox and thunderbird might already have an established translator base so you should ask them
[11:54] <artnay> sagaci: https://translations.documentfoundation.org/ and http://www.libreoffice.org/get-involved/localizers/
[11:54] <dpm> artnay, wiki updated with the info, thanks for the heads up
[11:55] <sagaci> thanks
[11:55] <artnay> dpm: great, less dupe questions for you :-)
[11:55] <dpm> :-)
[12:15] <dpm> hi kelemengabor, quick question, as you handled the gnome docs templates and all. So is ubuntu-help basically a patched version of the gnome docs?
[12:15] <kelemengabor> yes
[12:15] <kelemengabor> I have uploaded the full gnome-help into ubuntu-docs
[12:15] <kelemengabor> and about 860 untranslated remained
[12:16] <kelemengabor> and a lot of these is turning up as fuzzy in Lokalize
[12:16] <dpm> kelemengabor, oh, I see. So you uploaded the hu file, as the docs team don't import upstream translations, right?
[12:17] <kelemengabor> yes
[12:17] <kelemengabor> but I guess it would be safe to set up upstream sync from gnome-help to ubuntu-docs, if it is possible
[12:17] <kelemengabor> if this is where you want to go :)
[12:19] <dpm> I'm just thinking what would make things easier, as the current approach is far from optimal. Unfortunately, I don't think upstream sync would work, as they are different branches and different templates
[12:29] <dpm> kelemengabor, looking at the imports queue, do you know if yelp-xsl has changed its path where the template is created? I'm tempted to just approve the template there: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/yelp-xsl/+imports?field.filter_status=NEEDS_REVIEW&field.filter_extension=pot
[12:30] <kelemengabor> dpm: no idea. last time I committed a translation into upstream, it went to po/
[12:31] <kelemengabor> btw, all translations in yelp-ysl are going to be merged into an xml file at build time, so there is no much point in exposing it for translation in LP
[12:32] <kelemengabor> also no point in exporting the mo file
[12:33] <kelemengabor> hm, now this is interesting: http://git.gnome.org/browse/yelp-xsl/tree/po/POTFILES.in
[12:34] <dpm> err... that must be a mistake, right?
[12:35] <kelemengabor> nope
[12:35] <kelemengabor> http://git.gnome.org/browse/yelp-xsl/tree/xslt/gettext/domains/Makefile.am
[12:36] <kelemengabor> the pot is generated using itstool, this is why we have two pot files
[12:39] <kelemengabor> but still, the translations go into an xml file at build time, so there is no much point to make it translatable, right?
[12:48] <dpm> kelemengabor, I'm thinking about it. If they are very visible translations, it might make sense to ensure developers export it, altough it's too late for this release
[12:51] <kelemengabor> dpm: these are the localizable parts of the yelp stylesheets
[12:51] <kelemengabor> I wouldn't call it essential
[12:54] <kelemengabor> we don't have resources to ensure the proper translations of more visible strings, like, um, LO .desktop files ;)
[12:54] <kelemengabor> in the sense of bug #512395
[12:54] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 512395 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Libreoffices .desktop files do not contain translation domain info (affects: 4) (dups: 1) (heat: 32)" [Wishlist,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512395
[15:29] <kelemengabor> dpm: if you don't mind, I'll deactivate a few templates: alacarte because it's in universe, quassel becasue of the things written in https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+question/170093 and lo-build and lo-desktop because of the last comment in bug 512395
[15:29] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 512395 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Libreoffices .desktop files do not contain translation domain info (affects: 5) (dups: 1) (heat: 38)" [Wishlist,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/512395
[15:31] <dpm> kelemengabor, yeap, all good thanks. Would you mind leaving the quassel one for now, though? I set it up a while ago for the quassel guys to pick up translations from LP (I know they should have used an upstream project instead), and I'd like to check with them if they're still using it before disabling it
[15:32] <kelemengabor> sure
[15:32] <kelemengabor> but I'll kill its mo export, that's surely unused
[15:33] <dpm> yes, go for it
[15:37] <kelemengabor> all done
[15:39] <kelemengabor> hm, this quassel upstream is strange: https://translations.launchpad.net/quassel/trunk
[16:25] <dpm> kelemengabor, yeah, I don't know what they did there
[16:38] <dpm> kelemengabor, do you happen to know where the keyboard layout strings that appear in the keyboard indicator come from? I've noticed the "Catalan (Spain, with middle-dot L)" string I got translated in my indicator on Natty is now untranslated in Oneiric, and I'm not sure if it's the indicator not translating it or the string having become fuzzy and thus not translated
[16:39] <kelemengabor> hm, keyboard indicator? perhaps xkeyboard-config?
[16:43] <kelemengabor> hm, strange, I can add Catalan (Spain, with middle-dot L), and I have only a translated "Spanish (Catalan variant with middle-dot L)" in LP
[16:44] <kelemengabor> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/xkeyboard-config/oneiric
[16:44] <dpm> yeah, the latter is what appeared translated in Natty
[16:44] <kelemengabor>  * No need to build the pot file anymore, upstream version is used.
[16:44] <dpm> I've just seen it too
[16:44] <kelemengabor> :(
[16:44] <kelemengabor> this explains it...
[16:47] <dpm> I'm still not sure I follow it, that would explain it if the POT file were not up to date, so let me check if the upstream POT file contains the string when built
[16:49] <kelemengabor> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/oneiric/xkeyboard-config/oneiric/view/head:/po/xkeyboard-config.pot#L560
[16:49] <kelemengabor> its there, this is even stranger
[16:50] <dpm> yeah, it seems that the latest POT file did not get imported into LP
[16:51] <kelemengabor>                     Path of the template in the source tree, including filename.:
[16:51] <kelemengabor> debian/xkeyboard-config.pot
[16:51] <kelemengabor> maybe this?
[16:52] <kelemengabor> it's in po/ now
[16:52] <kelemengabor> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/xkeyboard-config/+pots/xkeyboard-config/+edit
[16:52] <dpm> yeah :(
[16:52] <kelemengabor> I'll fix it
[16:52] <kelemengabor> can we ask for a no change upload?
[16:53] <dpm> It's not necessary, I'll try to manually upload the template, let's hope it makes it until tomorrow 9:00UTC
[16:53] <kelemengabor> and the translations?
[16:53] <kelemengabor> should wait for the next update?
[17:00] <dpm> ah, good point, I hadn't thought about this. However, I don't want to rush an upload now, as it would need to happen fairly soon, then hope it is built in time and that afterwards the translations are also imported by tomorrow. I think we should leave it for now and get this fixed properly: the package should generate an up-to-date POT file
[17:00] <dpm> as I've noticed the shipped upstream POT file is not up to date
[17:00] <dpm> a manually-generated one contains 1 string more
[17:01] <kelemengabor> I think we can use bug #827666 to track this
[17:01] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 827666 in xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu) "Please import the upstream French translation (affects: 1) (heat: 4)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/827666
[17:02] <dpm> hm, I think it's best if we file a new one with the exact description of what needs to be done in the package, and then point to this one
[17:04] <dpm> hm ubuntu-bug says xkeyboard-config does not exist?
[17:06] <kelemengabor> dpm: that's the source package name, the binary is xkb-data
[17:06] <dpm> aha, thanks kelemengabor :)
[17:10] <kelemengabor> and we have the xkb-data-i18n package, which contains the translated mo files, but it is not anymore on the installer CD
[17:10] <kelemengabor> looks like it has lost its relevance
[17:16] <dpm> kelemengabor, oh, so translations on the desktop are not loaded from langpacks?
[17:17] <dpm> in the meantime, here's bug 868554
[17:17] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 868554 in xkeyboard-config (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Need to create POT template on build (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868554
[17:18] <kelemengabor> they are on the installed system, but not on the live CD, which uses hard wired translations from d-i which are based on the po files
[17:18] <kelemengabor> formerly, the live CD used the xkb-data-i18n package, this seems to have changed
[17:19] <dpm> oh, I see, I'm not sure what the live CD uses now
[17:20] <kelemengabor> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/oneiric-desktop-i386.manifest
[17:20] <kelemengabor> well, no xkb-data-i18n here
[17:21] <kelemengabor> but we have http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/d-i/make-keyboard-names
[17:21] <dpm> yeah, I'm wondering how they are loaded, if they are at all. I haven't tested an oneiric iso in a while
[17:21] <kelemengabor> I did :)
[17:23] <dpm> I still don't quite get it. How are they loaded from the locale dir, if the language packs are not yet installed? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/d-i/make-keyboard-names#L80
[17:23] <kelemengabor> this runs at build time or so
[17:23] <kelemengabor> I'm looking for the exact file
[17:24] <kelemengabor> but I know I saw it
[17:25] <dpm> oh, cool, the new xkeyboard-config template has been imported. Let me try to manually upload translations for all languages...
[17:30] <kelemengabor> hm, so the python file is not in the bzr branch, only in the binary package
[17:31] <kelemengabor> apt-get install ubiquity && less /usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/keyboard_names.py
[17:31] <kelemengabor> :)
[17:32] <kelemengabor> $ ls -lh /usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/keyboard_names.py
[17:32] <kelemengabor> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1,9M 2011-10-05 03:45 /usr/lib/ubiquity/ubiquity/keyboard_names.py
[17:32] <dpm> a bit of a big file, isn't it?
[17:32] <dpm> are translations in there?
[17:32] <kelemengabor> that's why its big
[17:33] <dpm> that's what I call a brute force approach
[17:33] <dpm> but it works, which is the main thing :)
[17:33] <kelemengabor> apt-cache show xkb-data-i18n says:
[17:33] <kelemengabor> Installed-Size: 2468
[17:33] <kelemengabor> is this smaller than 1,9 M?
[17:34] <kelemengabor> well, Synaptic lists it in human readable format: that's 2,5M
[17:34] <dpm> is that in kb or in bytes?
[17:34] <dpm> in kb, then
[17:36] <dpm> ok, translations uploaded: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/xkeyboard-config/+imports
[17:40] <kelemengabor> okay, I'm stupid, the make-keyboard-names script still takes the translations from the xkb-data-i18n package, it is still relevant
[17:45] <dpm> ah, ok, but it's only needed during the build, right?
[17:52] <kelemengabor> right
[19:16] <trijntje> kelemengabor: I recently tried uploading translations to quassel trunk, It got rejected for some strange reason
[19:16] <kelemengabor> trijntje: where exactly?
[19:18] <trijntje> https://translations.launchpad.net/quassel/i18n-master/+imports
[19:19] <trijntje> kelemengabor: ^
[19:19] <trijntje> thats the location that launchpad advertised as 'needing translations'
[19:20] <kelemengabor> well, the error message says:
[19:20] <kelemengabor> Outdated translation.  The last imported version of this file was dated 2011-09-07 09:08:00+08:00; the timestamp in the file you uploaded is 2010-12-16 06:22:00+00:00.
[19:20] <kelemengabor> this is your file?
[19:21] <trijntje> wait, thats not my file, hold on
[19:25] <trijntje> kelemengabor: I'm confused now, I'm sure that the import showed an error for my upload, but now I find this email from rosetta telling me the import was succesfull
[19:25] <trijntje> while at the same time, the template is still 100% untranslated
[19:28] <trijntje> I'm uploading the translations again now, to see what error I will get
[19:55] <kelemengabor> trijntje: I just downloaded the Hungarian quassel translation from Ubuntu, and it contained an incorrect plural form, is there nothing similar with yours? Does it pass msgfmt -c ?
[19:57] <trijntje> kelemengabor: yes, msgfmt -c prints nothing, which I assume means no errors
[20:08] <trijntje> kelemengabor: The new template got 'imported', as you can see here:https://translations.launchpad.net/quassel/i18n-master/+imports
[20:09] <trijntje> but I dont know where the strings have gone, because the template still is 100% untranslated for Dutch(nl):https://translations.launchpad.net/quassel/i18n-master/+pots/quassel/nl/+translate
[20:10] <kelemengabor> strange
[20:10] <kelemengabor> any error message?
[20:10] <trijntje> no, it says all translations have been imported
[20:11] <kelemengabor> hm... I'll ask tomorrow dpm to take a look, I have no idea
[20:13] <trijntje> strictly speaking its 'upstream', not ubuntu. Maybe I should just file a bug against upstream?
[20:14] <kelemengabor> that can't hurt :)
[20:24] <trijntje> ill try to speak to someone on irc, they have disabled bug tracking in lp. Thanks for looking into it, and have a nice evening
[20:43] <kelemengabor> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/10/ubuntu-12-04-named-precise-pangolin :D