[00:34] <itnet7> AlanBell: ping
[02:04] <sammm> OH NO two of my university modules clash. :(
[02:04] <sammm> HazRPG: What shall I do? I can't go to both lectures if they're at the same time
[02:04] <Azelphur> Step 1) Record one of them, Step 2) Record the other one too, Step 3) Sit at home with your feet up and watch them while munching popcorn, Step 4) Congratulations you have now beaten university
[02:05] <sammm> Azelphur: I have a feeling you aren't taking this seriously.
[02:05]  * Azelphur never takes anything seriously
[02:06] <Azelphur> still, I don't see why you can't just record one and watch it later \o/
[02:06] <HazRPG> indeed
[02:07] <HazRPG> sammm: you could just check to see if there's an alt. day for the same lecturer/class... that's what I use to do :P
[02:07] <sammm> HazRPG: Neither lecture is double taught. :(
[02:07]  * Azelphur has the best approach
[02:07] <Azelphur> high school dropout \o/
[02:07] <sammm> Azelphur: Shhhhh troll
[02:08] <Azelphur> my life isn't a troll :(
[02:08] <sammm> HazRPG: I guess I should just drop one of the modules and pick up one which doesn't clash?
[02:08] <HazRPG> sammm: Azelphur isn't a troll :/
[02:08] <Azelphur> HazRPG: he called my life a troll :(
[02:08] <Azelphur> lol
[02:08] <HazRPG> Azelphur: I saws :(
[02:08] <sammm> HazRPG: I don't care, he's not helpful
[02:08] <Azelphur> I can live with that ^
[02:09] <sammm> HazRPG: What do students normally do when they have a timetable clash?
[02:09] <HazRPG> sammm: err... look for the alt?
[02:09] <ali1234> i only went to about 20% of my lectures in university
[02:09] <sammm> HazRPG: Alt lecture? I'm not sure there is one.
[02:09] <HazRPG> same class will be repeated several times in a week for different groups :/
[02:09] <ali1234> that's probably why i got a third though
[02:09] <sammm> HazRPG: But I can ask my tutor or something if there is.
[02:10] <HazRPG> sammm: indeed, or ask them for advise as to what you could do
[02:10] <sammm> HazRPG: Okay, I've emailed my tutor and hopefully he'll get back to me later today and give me some solutions.
[02:10] <sammm> HazRPG: Yeah, but I can't do that for at least 6 hours
[02:10] <Azelphur> ali1234: you have higher attendance than me :P
[02:10] <ali1234> what are the two modules?
[02:10] <ali1234> they probably assumed nobody want to do both of them
[02:11] <sammm> ali1234: Issues in Macroeconomic Policy and Decision Making in Business
[02:11] <ali1234> hmm
[02:11] <ali1234> are they elective modules?
[02:11] <ali1234> cos decision making in business sounds like a joke module to me
[02:12] <sammm> ali1234: I chose it based on the module code
[02:12] <HazRPG> ali1234: at UCLan, none of the lecturers clashed, it was mainly the practicals/lessons that would clash, but had several different ones of the same thing because there would be about 5-6 different courses with similar modules - tutors don't mind you sitting in on those, as long as you have those modules on your course
[02:12] <sammm> EBR223
[02:12] <sammm> Reminds me of Battlefield
[02:12] <sammm> ali1234: And also, it sounds like an easy 10 credits. :)
[02:12] <ali1234> at manchester, there were probably clashing lectures, but it wasn't ever possible to pick both clashing modules because you couldn't ever have the prerequisite modules for both
[02:12] <HazRPG> sammm: alt. you could just ask your classmates for notes ^_^
[02:13] <HazRPG> or ask them to video it for you ^_^
[02:13] <sammm> HazRPG: My friend/soon-to-be-fuck-buddy has notes. :)
[02:13] <Azelphur> HazRPG: ninjaing my ideas :p
[02:14] <HazRPG> Azelphur: don't you know, there's like 134 ninjas in here, 127 of them are failing ;D
[02:14] <Azelphur> lol
[02:14] <Azelphur> http://demotivationalblog.com/demotivational/2008/09/ninjas-there-are-four-of-them-in-this-picture.jpg \o/
[02:14] <HazRPG> CTRL+C or ALT+F4 is the easiest way to be a ninja (quick tip for everyone \o/)
[02:15] <HazRPG> Azelphur: haha, exactly like that xD
[02:15] <Azelphur> :)
[02:15] <sammm> Pressing the power reset button is even easier
[02:15] <sammm> And faster
[02:15] <sammm> USB takes 8 ms to react
[02:15] <sammm> Plus operating system latency
[02:16] <HazRPG> wall switch is even easier xD
[02:16] <HazRPG> insta-all off!
[02:16] <sammm> I can ninja faster than you because my USB is overclocked :)
[02:16] <sammm> 500hz
[02:17] <HazRPG> sammm: I use USB3 ;D
[02:17] <Azelphur> I can ninja in more ways than you, I have 102 extra keys ontop of my keyboard
[02:17] <Azelphur> :D
[02:17] <sammm> HazRPG: Exploding the sun is even easier because it destroys your computer, the internet, and anyone on the internet
[02:17] <sammm> Azelphur: But they take 8ms to do anything
[02:17] <HazRPG> dude you both fail, easiest way is dividing by zero
[02:17] <HazRPG> its like mega fuuuuuuuu power right there!
[02:17] <sammm> HazRPG: What's the polling rate of USB3?
[02:18] <HazRPG> err
[02:18] <Azelphur> http://gamesweb.sk/editor/images/pages/2/13357/logitech-gseries.jpg
[02:18] <Azelphur> when in doubt, add more buttons
[02:18] <HazRPG> 5Gb/s transmission speeds?
[02:18] <sammm> More buttons !=better keyboard
[02:18] <Azelphur> I have the Keyboard (G19) and the Gamepad (G19) and the wireless version of the headset (G930), I use a different mouse though :p
[02:18] <sammm> HazRPG: Bandwidth and latency are two different things
[02:18] <sammm> HazRPG: Gawd, I thought you knew more about this stuff than me
[02:19] <daftykins> XD
[02:19] <HazRPG> sammm: I code...
[02:19] <HazRPG> sammm: hardware isn't my forte ^_^
[02:19] <sammm> HazRPG: Yay I probably know more about hardware than you :)
[02:19] <Azelphur> ^ this also applies to me
[02:20] <HazRPG> I know the hardware I need, and want... bout it :P
[02:20] <sammm> Azelphur: Wireless keyboards, headsets and mice suck
[02:20] <HazRPG> if it works, then score \o/
[02:20] <Azelphur> sammm: the keyboard, mouse and gamepad arn't wireless
[02:20] <HazRPG> sammm: I'm sure Azelphur will agree - if it works, then score \o/
[02:21] <Azelphur> I opted for a wireless headset because I keep snagging and breaking the cables :)
[02:21] <sammm> Azelphur: Added latency and compaction
[02:21] <sammm> s/compaction/something/
[02:21] <Azelphur> yea, I don't use wireless for input, the only wireless device is the headset
[02:21] <sammm> Azelphur: But it's compressed
[02:21] <sammm> s/compaction/compression/
[02:21] <Azelphur> yep
[02:21] <Azelphur> so's any music you ever listen to on a computer anyway
[02:21] <HazRPG> sammm: doesn't matter what latency you get from your hardware... it'll all not matter cos your speed between HDD->RAM->CPU will also have slowdowns
[02:21] <ali1234> that doesn't matter when you only use it for micspamming on TF2 :)
[02:22] <HazRPG> ali1234: good point ^_^
[02:22] <Azelphur> also I believe the codec used is lossless anyway
[02:22] <Azelphur> so in summary... nope it's great :D
[02:23] <sammm> HazRPG: Yes, which is why I turn down graphics
[02:23] <sammm> HazRPG: Less load on hardware=higher framerate=less latency
[02:23] <sammm> 100+ FPS FTW
[02:23] <sammm> 60 FPS is for scrubs
[02:23] <sammm> HazRPG: I'm really going to struggle with my maths this year :(
[02:24] <Azelphur> I'm happy with 60, my monitors refresh rate is 60 and I have vsync turned on in most things
[02:24] <ali1234> i don't like watching HDTV cos it;s all 30FPS and it looks really juddery
[02:24] <Azelphur> and I don't need to turn down my graphics, WoW is quite happy running at 3840x1200 via wine :D
[02:24] <Azelphur> ali1234: lil
[02:24] <Azelphur> lol*
[02:24] <sammm> Azelphur: Scrub
[02:24] <Azelphur> sammm: what games you play?
[02:24] <ali1234> would much prefer blurry, but 50fps SDTV any day
[02:25] <HazRPG> ali1234: heh, indeed
[02:25] <ali1234> the picture on TV shows was much better back in the day
[02:25] <ali1234> back when live meant live
[02:25] <ali1234> not stuffed through a mpeg encoder
[02:26] <sammm> Azelphur: Counter Strike, Dota, CoD4
[02:26] <sammm> L4D
[02:26] <Azelphur> sammm: used to do CS:S now I'm a TF2 person :)
[02:26] <HazRPG> Azelphur: my monitor only does 72Hz, or so... so anything more than that is a waste really
[02:26] <sammm> Azelphur: TF2 can be fun
[02:26] <Azelphur> I play WoW and Minecraft too, fun fun
[02:26] <daftykins> HazRPG: C...R...T D: ?
[02:26] <sammm> Azelphur: Lame games
[02:26] <Azelphur> nou
[02:27] <sammm> Azelphur: Guild Wars>WoW and anything>Minecraft
[02:27] <Azelphur> I played guild wars and didn't much like it tbh
[02:27] <Azelphur> I played all the way up to max level and got bored and left it
[02:27] <sammm> Azelphur: Why not?
[02:27] <sammm> Azelphur: The game takes more skill
[02:27] <sammm> Azelphur: It's not an MMORPG
[02:27] <Azelphur> I didn't find anything to do at max level
[02:28] <sammm> Azelphur: It's a competitive third-person action fighting game
[02:28] <sammm> Azelphur: Compete in tournaments
[02:28] <Azelphur> *shrug* You can do that in WoW anyway?
[02:28] <ali1234> WoW does suck
[02:28] <HazRPG> daftykins: nope... TFT (possibly LCD?)
[02:28] <sammm> Azelphur: Not really, WoW is just about who has the highest numbers on their axe
[02:28] <ali1234> but then so does guild wars
[02:28] <sammm> Azelphur: And who is highest level and has best gear
[02:28] <ali1234> and all FPS games
[02:28] <daftykins> HazRPG: ah. not really refresh rates then
[02:28] <Azelphur> sammm: that's actually really wrong lol
[02:29] <sammm> Azelphur: And who has the most unbalanced setups
[02:29] <daftykins> 72 is odd though 0o
[02:29] <sammm> Azelphur: Shhhhh troll
[02:29] <Azelphur> I actually play the game, unlike you guys clearly :p
[02:29] <Azelphur> but the fact is is that in PvE someone that knows the tactics, and knows how to play their class, is far better/more useful than someone who is geared
[02:29] <Azelphur> and the two often don't come hand in hand
[02:30] <sammm> Azelphur: PvE scrub
[02:30] <ali1234> the problem with WoW is the whole world is so locked down you can't do anything interesting
[02:30] <HazRPG> daftykins: ah, my old monitor was 72Hz, seems these ones are 60.02Hz according to NVIDIA X Server Settings...
[02:30] <Azelphur> nah, I'm a PvP scrub too, I beat a level 60 guy when I was level 40 once :p
[02:31] <Azelphur> and I used to take out people that was better geared than me all the time, although now I actually have gear so it's a faceroll most of the time :P
[02:31] <daftykins> :>
[02:31] <Azelphur> but yea, gear is a factor, but gear is as much of a factor as knowing your class, and having decent reaction times is too
[02:31] <Azelphur> any one is useless without the others.
[02:32] <HazRPG> Azelphur: much agreed!
[02:32] <Azelphur> :)
[02:33] <HazRPG> I currently play SC2... and well, I hate it when people say "such and such race is so OP!" when its not really true...
[02:33] <Azelphur> hehe
[02:33] <ali1234> of course it's not true
[02:33] <ali1234> people never say that when it is actually true
[02:33] <HazRPG> when said player has an APM of around 15 average :/
[02:34] <daftykins> OP?
[02:34] <ali1234> over powered
[02:34] <HazRPG> trying to beat someone who has APM of 70-80 odd APM
[02:34] <HazRPG> ali1234: beat me to it :P
[02:34] <Azelphur> I'm quite good at WoW, Currently I'm the ranked the 38th mage on my server :p
[02:34] <ali1234> if they really think that race is over powered, why don't they just play it?
[02:34] <ali1234> but here's the thing
[02:35] <ali1234> having every team exactly equal makes a boring game
[02:35] <HazRPG> ali1234: that's what I always tell them, and their excuse "don't like that race..." lol
[02:35] <Azelphur> ^ this too
[02:35] <HazRPG> true!
[02:35] <ali1234> it;s like when you're playing street fighter
[02:35] <ali1234> everyone complains ryu is over powered
[02:35] <ali1234> then you thrash them with e honda
[02:36] <ali1234> and then they have nothing to say
[02:36]  * Azelphur is an akuma pro
[02:36] <HazRPG> however, in things like SC2, each race is /roughly/ equal... however, the order in which things are built, or the order of when you can get the same type of units vary considerably
[02:36] <ali1234> lol, akuma is deliberately over powered, he's a boss damnit :)
[02:36] <Azelphur> haha
[02:36] <ali1234> you need characters like that too
[02:36] <Azelphur> some days I'll go into 2v2's and have my ass handed to me, other days I'll go in and we'll kill them, laugh, resurrect them and kill them again
[02:36] <Azelphur> (Actually did that once, so funny)
[02:37] <ali1234> apparently street fighter has changed a lot since i last played it
[02:37] <Azelphur> ali1234: yea, it's going the way of sonic
[02:37] <Azelphur> the latest street fighter is seriously like playing in slow mo
[02:37] <Azelphur> and they jump less distance than my grandma can.
[02:38] <ali1234> so like tekken then?
[02:38] <HazRPG> sf4 isn't fun imho... bought it, wished I didn't... tried to sell it on... but would have gotten much less than I paid for it (even though I only had it about a month)... so I kept it regardless, but its collecting dust :/
[02:38] <Azelphur> ali1234: yea pretty much
[02:38] <Azelphur> sf4 is collecting dust in my steam account, doesn't even work in Linux :(
[02:38] <Azelphur> installed vista on my laptop just to try it, it made me a sad panda.
[02:38] <ali1234> marvel vs capcom is the best street fighter game
[02:39] <ali1234> on dreamcast ofc
[02:39] <Azelphur> hehe
[02:39] <HazRPG> ali1234: ofc! I still own both those \o/
[02:39] <ali1234> my dreamcast broke :(
[02:40] <Azelphur> mine did too
[02:40] <Azelphur> it keeps rebooting itself
[02:40]  * HazRPG stares at his DC to the left of me connected to my old CRT TV :)
[02:40] <ali1234> you can connect them to VGA you know
[02:40] <Azelphur> I'm going the way of emulation with everything console now anyway
[02:40] <Azelphur> got rid of most of my old consoles
[02:40] <HazRPG> ali1234: I know... this is just more old-school for me
[02:40] <ali1234> DC emulators don't work :(
[02:40] <ali1234> even gamecube emulators work better
[02:41] <Azelphur> :(
[02:41] <ali1234> even wii emulators...
[02:41] <HazRPG> ali1234: if your talking about linux emulators... yeah, sadly ;(
[02:41] <Azelphur> dolphin works quite well from what I've heard
[02:41] <Azelphur> dolphin sounds pretty awesome
[02:41] <ali1234> yeah it works well
[02:41] <ali1234> can't run at full speed on my system though
[02:41] <HazRPG> ali1234: there's a few windows DC emulators that work well - but not for all games :(
[02:41] <Azelphur> hehe
[02:42] <ali1234> it keeps improving though
[02:42] <HazRPG> I looked into DC emu's for linux... and so far I haven't gotten any of them to do anything but boot the BIOS
[02:42] <ali1234> i got powerstone working, just, with slightly messed up graphics
[02:43] <ali1234> and messed up sound
[02:43] <ali1234> and bad framerate
[02:43] <ali1234> but it was just about playable
[02:43] <HazRPG> :(
[02:44] <HazRPG> I never understood why the DC died so abruptly like that... I mean so much work into the emu's went well... until like early to mid 2000... and then just halted :/
[02:45] <daftykins> perhaps crow syndrome took over
[02:45] <daftykins> "oh look, new shiny thing!"
[02:45] <daftykins> i remember seeing that DC-on-a-PCI-card
[02:48] <HazRPG> daftykins: oh?
[02:52] <daftykins> yeah, i'd have guessed it was for devs but i think it came years after
[03:16] <sammm> HazRPG: Are you any good at maths?
[03:17] <HazRPG> sammm: erm... use to be at school/college, why?
[03:18] <ball> HazRPN <- calculator joke ;-)
[03:18] <sammm> HazRPG: Just wondering
[03:18] <daftykins> nn all o/
[03:18] <sammm> HazRPG: You're my friend :)
[03:18] <daftykins> don't stay up too... much earlier 0o
[03:18] <HazRPG> daftykins: night dude \o
[03:19] <HazRPG> ball: ^_^
[05:51] <AlanBell> itnet7: hi
[06:55] <brobostigon> morning everyone.
[07:01] <imexil> Morning.
[07:01] <imexil> Anyone already on 11.10 beta? I'm struggeling to find the font and colour settings to modify the theme
[07:08] <MartijnVdS> you can't?
[07:11] <imexil> well the buttons for modifying a theme are gone
[07:12] <imexil> You can only choose from a list of predefined settings but no change of the fonts or colours. I guess the settings are still there somewhere but now hidden from the user :(
[07:20]  * popey sighs at sammm last night
[07:23] <imexil> Perhaps somebody know what the actually app is called that normally takes care of changing theme fonts etc. That way I could directly launch that instead of relying on the new settings interface which doesn't give me the options I'm looking for.
[07:25] <popey> i dont think such an app exists in the default install
[07:25] <popey> it maybe you have to (for now) fiddle with xml files
[07:26] <imexil> mmh,
[07:26] <imexil> And I thought Unity was getting better ;)
[07:26] <imexil> +
[07:28] <popey> "patches welcome" as they say
[07:28] <imexil> Well I'm on the user side so it's hard to provide a patch.
[07:29] <imexil> On the other hand, some one must have removed that funcionality on purpose without an alternative ... :( that way users get stuck in their workings
[07:30] <imexil> OK enough complains, I just hoped someone might know how to access the settings even in the new Unity
[07:31] <AlanBell> imexil: I suspect that is a gnome thing rather than a unity thing
[07:32] <imexil> Right. But that doesn't help me either ;)
[07:32] <gordonjcp> imexil: the real answer is to switch to XFCE4 until either gnome or unity are usable
[07:32] <AlanBell> true enough
[07:33] <imexil> Well that was the option for 11.04 but I thought should no longer be necessary for 11.10
[07:33] <popey> ho ho ho
[07:33] <popey> s/11.10/12.04/
[07:33] <popey> etc
[07:34] <imexil> So why do they "force" all users to Unitiy already in 11.10 again? :)
[07:34] <MartijnVdS> Nobody is forced.
[07:34] <gordonjcp> every so often I try unity but I just can't work with it
[07:34] <popey> indeed, hence the scare quotes
[07:36] <imexil> The thing is, I like dog fooding. So when I migrated my wife to Unity in 11.04 I also like to stay on that one even though I might be more comfortable with XFCE etc. This is purely for support reasons (she likes the interface).
[07:36] <AlanBell> my kids seem to cope with the interface just fine
[07:37] <imexil> But I also need to be able to do some customisations which I can no longer do in 11.10
[07:37] <imexil> AlanBell: which one Unity of XFCE?
[07:37] <AlanBell> unity
[07:37] <popey> imexil: you can do
[07:37] <popey> imexil: you just do it in a different way
[07:38] <imexil> hence my original question... where can I find it now :)
[07:38] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: right, but presumably they haven't been using Unix desktops for 20 years
[07:39] <popey> imexil: well, you didnt actually tell us what setting you wanted to change
[07:39] <imexil> I need to change the background colour of text boxes since some qt apps don't work properly
[07:39] <popey> isnt that a qt theme setting?
[07:40] <imexil> well in the past it was simply via "rightclick on desktop --> change background --> modify theme etc"
[07:40] <imexil> and that helped
[07:41] <popey> that probably fiddles something in gconf / gsettings
[07:41] <imexil> I'm not saying that it is not the fault of the qt app but at least changing the background colour helped in the past
[07:42] <popey> hey ikonia you know that thing that you said I 'liked' on facebook. i see you 'like' it.
[07:42] <popey> marked as spam
[07:43] <imexil> And you think the tool to do this without knowing html colour codes is gone?
[07:44] <popey> pass. i am not at an ubuntu machine so cant look
[07:46] <imexil> ok. Well I try to copy the colour code of "text_color" to "tooltip_fg_colo" (this is the actually setting I needed to change) and just hope I don't have to explain to a Windows/mac user what I had to do to get my tool tips back ;)
[07:57] <hoover> good morning
[08:09] <czajkowski> Good morning all
[08:15] <selinuxium> morning czajkowski   o/
[08:15] <bigcalm> Good morning czajkowski and other awake peeps
[08:15] <selinuxium> Morning all    o/
[08:21] <DJones> Off topic windows question, does anybody know if its possible to install IE8 alongside IE9 on windows 7
[08:23] <bigcalm> DJones: add 'standalone' to your search terms
[08:25] <DJones> Thanks, looking now, from what else I've read though, IE9 seems to replace IE8 regardless
[08:27] <bigcalm> Pretty much, yes
[08:28] <DJones> *%$**&$£ system, browser based database/finance/etc system, only works in IE6/7/8
[08:29]  * DJones looks for firefox & user agent switcher
[08:30] <bigcalm> Eugh
[08:31] <DJones> bigcalm: No need to be so polite about it, I'm not happy with it
[08:32] <JamesTait> Morning all!
[08:33] <oimon> has a question about IRL...
[08:33] <oimon> if you friends parent dies and you are sending a sympathy card to him and his remaining parent, how would you address it?
[08:34] <oimon> to fred + mrs bloggs? to fred?
[08:34] <popey> i would send to fred
[08:34] <popey> and mention we're thinking of him and his family
[08:35] <oimon> he also lives with his mum. don't know if that changes stuff
[08:35] <popey> do you know her at all?
[08:35] <oimon> sounds sensible
[08:35] <oimon> not really
[08:35] <bigcalm> Send to Fred then
[08:35] <oimon> cheers guys
[08:36] <bigcalm> I hope his name is Fred
[08:36] <oimon> goig to the funeral aswell i think :-\ time to learn this etiquette thing
[08:36] <popey> ugh
[08:36] <popey> luckily I haven't been to a funeral for years
[08:37] <oimon> i've only ever been to 2 , one each for granparents
[08:37] <popey> guess we all go to more as we get older
[08:38] <oimon> sorry for depressing everyone!
[08:38] <oimon> new subject
[08:38] <bigcalm> Kittens please
[08:38] <oimon> next best thing:
[08:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.greatcurryrecipes.net/2011/10/04/rack-of-lamb-with-cashew-and-coriander-sauce/
[08:38] <bigcalm> Something for web devs: http://placekitten.com/
[08:38]  * popey has a migrane
[08:39] <oimon> a doggy that watches TV http://ubuntuone.com/4lPPF5NDswRaneNKEHtqZc
[08:39] <oimon> Mr Benn to be exact
[08:39]  * popey sings the mr benn theme to himself
[08:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hope it clears soon popey - I have never had one myself but those I know who get them make it sound really nasty.
[08:39] <oimon> it was the pirate episode
[08:40] <popey> is that an hp touchpad?
[08:40] <oimon> popey: yes
[08:40] <oimon> my son loves it
[08:40] <popey> :D
[08:40] <oimon> its a great childrens entertainment device
[08:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thought this was quite funny: http://news.techeye.net/mobile/apples-iphone-4s-a-lemon Apple fanboys need not read it.
[08:42] <popey> haha, trolololo
[08:42] <popey> "antenna which dropped a phone call when you touched it,
[08:42] <popey> "
[08:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> "you get locked into Steve Jobs' Walled Garden of Delights which is like  being jailed for life in Disneyland in a Kafkaesque nightmare.
[08:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Read more:  http://news.techeye.net/mobile/apples-iphone-4s-a-lemon#ixzz1ZtYCc78D"
[08:42] <popey> only people who _dont_ have an iphone4 repeat that line over and over
[08:43] <popey> i have one, my wife has one, about 5 people in my office have one, none of us suffer from dropped calls the way anti-apple people claim
[08:43] <oimon> phone calls? wow i remember those
[08:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> (09:41:25) TheOpenSourcerer: ... Apple fanboys need not read it.
[08:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> ;-)
[08:44]  * popey sighs
[08:44] <oimon> some swine nicked my choc milkshake from the office fridge :(
[08:44] <popey> get tired of being called an apple fanboy
[08:46] <Myrtti> I cant believe people still care what phone others have
[08:46] <DJones> If it works and does what you want, its the ideal phone for you
[08:46] <AlanBell> my blackberry is not working http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAG39jKi0lI
[08:47] <oimon> has anyone else noticed a reduction in facebook traffic since their changes last fortnight ago? either less of my "friends" using it or i'm seeing less updates
[08:48] <shauno> I've noticed that I miss the vast majority of updates unless I pull people's pages up one by one.  which is a bit of a pain, since my family use it for most their communications now :/
[08:48] <DJones> My mother-in-law has the cheapest, simplest mobile phone going, big buttons, she makes & receives calls, sends & receives texts. Thats all she wants
[08:48] <oimon> shauno: since the changes?
[08:48] <shauno> oimon: yeah.  since they decided it's up to them to decide what's news-worthy and what isn't
[08:48] <oimon> i thought i saw an option to subscribe to all of a person's updates, but you could only do that on a one-by-one basis
[08:50] <popey> \o/ Jabber
[08:50] <MattJ> Jabber \o/
[08:50]  * MattJ is back from an IRC holiday
[08:51] <popey> Did you go anywhere nice?
[08:51] <MattJ> New York
[08:51] <oimon> icqland?
[08:51] <popey> haha
[08:51] <MattJ> Though I'm not convinced about the "nice", I'm glad to be back :P
[08:51] <popey> icq
[08:51] <popey> 11317622
[08:51]  * MattJ adds popey
 (I stopped using ICQ years ago)
[08:52] <oimon> tbh i'm surprised that irc still works ;)
[08:52] <MartijnVdS> 6968589
[08:52] <DJones> oimon: I only see facebook updates via gwibber at home
[08:52] <oimon> 08001111
[08:54] <Seeker`> Jabber \o/
[08:54] <MattJ> Jabber \o/
[08:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ouch - http://piana.eu/
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> That page offends me. Now it has to go offline.
[09:04] <oimon> tl;dr
[09:04] <MartijnVdS> oimon: new (proposed?) italian law that demands that stuff gets taken down if it's offensive, even if it's true
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> i.e. censor ALL THE THINGS
[09:05] <popey> you're offending me
[09:05]  * popey shuts down freenode
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> :'(
[09:05] <oimon> "offensive" is subjective
[09:05] <MartijnVdS> oimon: Exactly
[09:05]  * gord crosses fingers and hopes pulse will play nice after an upgrade
[09:06] <gord> why is pulse still so crap :(
[09:06] <oimon> i wonder if the vatican comes under italian juridisction
[09:07] <AlanBell> no, it doesn't
[09:07] <AlanBell> mostly
[09:07] <shauno> isn't the sensible answer to simply not host it.wp in italy?
[09:08] <AlanBell> oimon: it has italian law forked as of 1929
[09:09] <MartijnVdS> Before fiddling with young boys was illegal?
[09:09] <AlanBell> funnily enough, the age of consent in the Vatican is 12
[09:09] <oimon> there's lots of bribes and stuff to pass around in the italian parliament before any law is made anyway
[09:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> You are joking? AlanBell
[09:10] <oimon> "As a result, the age of consent is 14, the same as Italy's."
[09:11] <oimon> [wikipedia]
[09:13] <AlanBell> http://www.qi.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=768701
[09:13]  * AlanBell blames Stephen Fry
[09:13] <shauno> seems that's relatively recent; as of 1st jan 2009
[09:50] <davmor2> morning all
[09:52] <bigcalm> Morning davmor2
[09:53] <davmor2> bigcalm: so we'll all met up in the coffee shop I think will be the easiest
[09:54] <davmor2> bigcalm: in through the main door up into the main area and then it's on the right
[09:55] <bigcalm> davmor2: perfect
[09:55] <gord> are you guys having a secret meeting without me? because that is mean
[09:56] <davmor2> gord: if you lived closer you'd be expected to turn up
[09:56] <gord> you should always be expecting gord, to do otherwise would be a fatal mistake
[09:57] <gordonjcp> no-one expects the... oh.
[09:58] <davmor2> gord: the lighthouse where LRL was for a couple of years has a basically disused works space area we thought we'd start using it once a month-ish and then they can publicise it etc we'll see how it goes
[09:59] <bigcalm> I'm relying upon a lift from my lovely lady in the morning to get to the train station. If she is awake in time, I can get the 08:08 train and be in for 08:36. If not, then it'll be the 08:51 and be in for 09:08 :S
[09:59] <bigcalm> Considering that she doesn't usually leave the house until 08:10, I will have to be extra nice to her tonight
[10:00] <davmor2> bigcalm: nice
[10:01] <bigcalm> I'd rather be on time for the 1st meeting
[10:01] <bigcalm> If this works out, are we looking for it to be a monthly thing?
[10:02] <gordonjcp> what's it a meeting about?
[10:02] <gordonjcp> alt-wolves-lug?
[10:02] <davmor2> bigcalm: yeap I think that was the general plan meet up once a month probably always a on Thursday
[10:02] <davmor2> gordonjcp: nope just meet up and do you're normal day job but from there instead of at home
[10:02] <bigcalm> Seems resonable
[10:03] <gordonjcp> davmor2: oh, instead of working from home
[10:03] <gordonjcp> yeah, that's a really neat idea
[10:03] <bigcalm> Told my boss about it and he thinks it's a great idea. I wonder if I can get him to pay the train fair ;)
[10:03] <gordonjcp> I bet mine won't
[10:03] <davmor2> gordonjcp, bigcalm: hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
[10:04] <bigcalm> o.O
[10:05] <bigcalm> 7.10 for a return fair. Think I can afford that
[10:05] <bigcalm> Bah, Synergy doesn't transmit shift + 3
[10:05] <bigcalm> Or shift + `
[10:20] <selinuxium> Hmmm linux.com has been down for days...
[10:31] <AlanBell> anyone want to go to a potentially interesting interactive workshop with the Cabinet Office transparency team on Monday in Whitehall?
[10:31] <AlanBell> it relates to this in some way -> http://data.gov.uk/opendataconsultation
[10:32] <AlanBell> monday afternoon, 1pm-4pm
[10:35] <czajkowski> AlanBell: tempting but I'd likely throttle people
[10:35] <AlanBell> ooh please go!
[10:36] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[10:36] <davmor2> czajkowski: you throttle mp's you need to go :)
[10:37] <AlanBell> this will just be civil servants to throttle
[10:37] <czajkowski> AlanBell: not what I had in mind
[10:37] <czajkowski> :)
[10:37] <czajkowski> davmor2: do not poke me I'm liable to kill
[10:37] <czajkowski> windows ate all my pencil work
[10:37] <czajkowski> Most flipping annoying
[10:38] <davmor2> Yeah but you used windows that was your first mistake :P
[10:39] <bigcalm> davmor2: I need you to stay alive until at least Friday. Please be careful :P
[10:39] <AlanBell> davmor2: are you coming down for the replease?
[10:39] <davmor2> czajkowski: here have a biscuit and remember to save every change you make as you make it
[10:39] <davmor2> AlanBell: I'm hoping too just depends on funds currently
[10:40] <davmor2> AlanBell: besides someone needs to be there to rag on czajkowski :D
[10:40]  * AlanBell looks up the verb to rag
[10:41] <AlanBell> 6. break into lumps before sorting
[10:42] <davmor2> AlanBell: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rag%20on
[10:43] <bigcalm> The urban dictionary does amuse me, but the language used in some of the meanings is less than pleasant when it doesn't need to be
[10:43] <bigcalm> O
[10:43] <bigcalm> M
[10:43] <bigcalm> G
[10:44] <bigcalm> The Imperial is in Wolverhampton. How will I resist tomorrow?
[10:44] <kirrus> bigcalm: you're doomed.
[10:44] <bigcalm> kirrus: my wallet and weight are, yes
[10:45] <czajkowski> davmor2: you must be due a millbank invasion soon
[10:45] <czajkowski> I will remember
[10:45] <czajkowski> and I will throttle you
[10:46] <bigcalm> Happy families :)
[10:52] <czajkowski> bigcalm: look when we're nice to one another it freaks people out
[10:52] <czajkowski> it's best to be consistent if nothing else
[10:53] <bigcalm> :D
[11:21] <GirlyGirl> Hi
[11:22] <brobostigon> afternoonings GirlyGirl
[11:48] <DJones> Arghhhh. Comment from new system developers, the reason its not working well is because your computers aren't up to required standards.......OK, that would explain why the 6 year old P4, 512Mb ram runs the system perfectly, but the 6 month old i5, 4Gb ram machines take 5 minutes to connect to the system.....
[11:50] <davmor2> czajkowski: indeed there is also a testing meeting on the 13th too that might be interesting
[11:50] <davmor2> czajkowski: MooDoo is the one you need down Soufff anyway being as he still owes you a drink
[11:55] <gord> i don't quite get why there are so many people that suggest you use mint whenever anyone suggests ubuntu
[11:59] <oimon> gord: mainly kids i guess :)
[11:59] <oimon> is there something you can suggest in return thats "cooler" or better than mint?
[12:00] <gord> maybe i should make a derivative of mint that just changes the background to blue, call it "cool mint"
[12:01] <oimon> mint ice :P
[12:01] <GirlyGirl> gord: I've seen those a lot ... mainly directed at people who like the Gnome 2x look
[12:01] <GirlyGirl> over unity and shell that is
[12:01] <GirlyGirl> I think mint does not have unity
[12:02] <oimon> there's really only one showstopper for me using unity :(
[12:03] <GirlyGirl> oimon: What would that be?
[12:05] <oimon> GirlyGirl: quicklist support for showing open terminal windows like docky does. i usually have 30-50 open and the expose view just isn't useful for that many. tabbed terminal and terminator don't cut it either
[12:05] <GirlyGirl> oimon: So what DE do you use then?
[12:05] <oimon> gnome2 right now
[12:06] <GirlyGirl> oimon: What is this docky thing?
[12:06]  * GirlyGirl has no idea how docky works being a long time kde user
[12:06] <oimon> it's a launcher/dock a bit like the unity one.
[12:07] <oimon> most other docks have the same functionality.
[12:08] <oimon> i need a dock because the window chooser on the gnome panel becomes . . . . . instead of descriptions when you have a lot
[12:09] <GirlyGirl> oimon: What about windows 7 style icon only indicators
[12:09] <oimon> GirlyGirl: not sure what they are
[12:09] <popey> why do you have so many open?
[12:12] <GirlyGirl> oimon: Like this http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/291/snapshothd.png/ (see the kde bar)
[12:13] <oimon> http://ubuntuone.com/1RCVf5KISvIGSg2IhfsU3g
[12:13] <oimon> popey: getting things done, multitasking etc
[12:14] <popey> you have at least 4 there on the same box
[12:14] <GirlyGirl> oimon: Can't you use tabs
[12:14] <popey> surely screen is more efficient?
[12:14] <popey> in fact there's about 10 on one box
[12:15] <oimon> that's my own box
[12:15] <oimon> the rest are servers and user's boxes
[12:15] <oimon> this is a typical use case for many sysadmins
[12:15] <popey> sysadmins who don't know screen ☺
[12:15] <oimon> screen has its uses
[12:15] <gord> i think having eight billion items in a quicklist is the optimal solution here :)
[12:16] <gord> is not *
[12:16] <gord> english sucks :(
[12:16] <oimon> gord: it's dynamic though
[12:16] <Seeker`> it looks like oimon is doing it....oh....whats the word
[12:16] <gord> a tab completable screen instance sounds like a better idea
[12:16] <Seeker`> ah, thats it, "wrong"
[12:16] <popey> i was learning english at school yesterday
[12:17] <popey> SSSSSS AAAAAAA TTTTTTT
[12:17] <popey> jolly phonics
[12:17] <gord> so say you wanted to get to foo@rawr:/home/bar you'd just do <somekeyboarcombination>:fo<tab>/ho<tab> and get there
[12:17] <oimon> this quicklist shows me all the terminal windows i have open on my box currently
[12:18] <oimon> they aren't shortcuts for getting to boxes, they are windows
[12:18] <gord> yup, you are very used to the way you do things now, i get that
[12:18] <popey> i still fail to see why you need 10 local terminals
[12:18] <popey> one and the CTRL+A, C.
[12:18] <popey> *bam* new window
[12:18] <oimon> tailing logs, running pings, copying files,
[12:18] <oimon> copy pasting
[12:19] <GirlyGirl> oimon: Tabs??
[12:19] <Seeker`> popey: or terminator (if that still exists)
[12:19] <popey> ok I will rephrase
[12:19] <popey> i still fail to see why you have 10 shells in completely separate windows
[12:19] <gord> but say you had a screen instance, which has all your ssh sessions you setup, going everywhere, then got around them using tab completion, it sounds like a much easier way of handing the same problem without changing your ui
[12:19] <Seeker`> screen also means that if you accidentally close the window, you can still get your windows back
[12:19] <gord> this would be why people for example, get around irssi with numbers, instead of having one window open per channel they go to, because that would be a pain for all infolved
[12:19] <oimon> i can see why some people do that, but having multiple windows open is easier
[12:20] <oimon> especially for comparing data and copy pasting
[12:20] <Seeker`> oimon: terminator
[12:20] <popey> \o/ split screen
[12:20] <oimon> doesn't work for 30 windows
[12:20] <oimon> i've tried
[12:20]  * oimon wonders where all the sysadmins are to back me up
[12:20]  * popey notes that he is a sysadmin
[12:21] <popey> dont think that just because you do this and you're a sysadmin, and I don't, that I'm not one
[12:21] <popey> we have ~200 boxes I ssh to
[12:21] <popey> having 200 windows open is nuts
[12:22] <popey> oooo, it's time for the watch wallpaper!
[12:22] <GirlyGirl> oimon: popey: The IE6 way lol
[12:22] <gord> watch wallpaper?
[12:22]  * BigRedS is a sysadmin using terminator + screen
[12:23] <BigRedS> I tend to have a few xterms knocking around, but only from when I'm imatiently wanting to host or dig something
[12:23] <popey> gord: the new wallpapers in 11.10
[12:23] <popey> the watch one is lovely
[12:24] <popey> https://plus.google.com/108611501090787019364/posts
[12:24] <popey> dunno if that will work
[12:25] <popey> bah, no
[12:25] <popey> https://plus.google.com/108611501090787019364/posts/T7HtHKsdxkj
[12:25] <popey> that!
[12:26] <oimon> tabs kind of solves the problem because you can click tabs and see a list of open sessions. but you get an ugly row of tabs
[12:29] <GirlyGirl> oimon: Your way you get an ugly list on the dock
[12:29] <gord> oooh right yeah
[12:29] <gord> i'v only really checked out the new wallpapers fleetingly to check my colour matching code worked with them
[12:29] <BigRedS> I have that row at the bottom of screen with all my screens on it, terminator split so it's mostly that screen session, with a box for irc and a box for a local shell, and sometimes tabs, too, if I'm feeling particularly perverse
[12:30] <Seeker`> gord: colour matching code?
[12:32] <popey> Seeker`: the launcher and dash background changes colour based on the desktop
[12:32] <popey> its quite nice
[12:34] <GirlyGirl> Scared to go on #ubuntu now, yesterday this guy sends me the danger command by pm when I never asked him anything and then goes and complains to ops that I sent him the command
[12:34] <popey> pffft
[12:34] <BigRedS> the danger command?
[12:34] <popey> dont make a big deal out of it, and go in and help people
[12:34] <GirlyGirl> yup
[12:34] <popey> or get helped
[12:35] <popey> BigRedS: rm with /
[12:35] <BigRedS> oh
[12:35] <Seeker`> I think there are a few things that prompt a !danger response
[12:35] <Seeker`> I think triggering it for rm with / is superfluous now, isn't it?
[12:36] <BigRedS> yeah, it doesn't let you
[12:36] <popey> aaaanyway
[12:36] <GirlyGirl> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/04/%23ubuntu-ops.html
[12:36] <popey> GirlyGirl: as I said, move on, go in and help or dont, dont make a big deal out of it
[12:36] <GirlyGirl> popey: I will
[12:36] <BigRedS> I always read that as 'I R clogs'...
[12:36]  * popey puts his wood shoes on
[12:40] <shauno> getting a good chuckle out of popey being a fanboi ;)
[12:41] <Seeker`> anyone that doesn't hate apple is a fanboi?
[12:41] <popey> apparently
[12:41] <Seeker`> Or are you talking about his love for clogs?
[12:41] <popey> mmmm clogs
[12:42] <oimon> infra red clogs
[12:42] <shauno> I gotta say you're not very good at it.  we need to sort that podcast out for a start.  nowhere near enough apple there
[12:42] <Seeker`> the people that are complaining that they should have done a "5" instead of a "4s" are only annoyed because it has the same case so people can't see they have the latest/greatest from a mile off
[12:43] <popey> once ios5 comes out I'll probably slap ubuntu on the kitchen computer
[12:43] <popey> maybe :D
[12:43] <shauno> I'm kinda glad they only went with the S.  for once, I don't feel so oddly compelled to run out and throw my money at them
[12:43] <Seeker`> and the people that are saying "zomg galaxy s ii" don't get the point that an iphone works well for me, does everything I need/want it to, at a price I am willing to pay
[12:44] <popey> but you're directly funding terrorism!
[12:44] <popey> I mean, Apple
[12:44] <popey> No, wait.
[12:44] <bigcalm> Haha
[12:44] <popey> never mind.
[12:44] <Seeker`> shauno: it's kinda obvious they are doing an intel-esque tick-tock routine atm. Given that phone contracts are at least 18 months long atm, they don't really expect people will be buying a new phone every year
[12:44] <popey> some do
[12:44] <shauno> mostly just getting kicks out of it because I sit in more than one mac-orientated channel.  so popey is *tame* compared to what I'm used to
[12:45] <brobostigon> out of curiosity, how much does a recent iphone cost, network free, and unlocked?
[12:45] <Seeker`> popey: some do, but they are the people that will buy them whatever they produce
[12:45] <shauno> contract/simlock free, I think around the 750 euro mark
[12:45] <brobostigon> shauno: nothing at all, so i can use my current sim in it?
[12:45] <popey> Seeker`: see, i disagree with that
[12:46] <oimon> didn't apple ban giveaways of their products in case it damaged the "reassuringly expensive" element of their brand?
[12:46] <Seeker`> they just need to do an appearance refresh one year and a hardware refresh the next. That way people that upgrade every other model when their contract expires
[12:46] <shauno> brobostigon, yup, as required by law in a small handful of european countries
[12:46] <brobostigon> shauno: so with both those conditions being true, handset alone, £750~ ?
[12:47] <shauno> I believe so.  haven't looked for over a year
[12:47] <popey> uhm
[12:47] <brobostigon> that is pretty expensive.
[12:47] <popey> iphone 3gs is 320 quid
[12:47] <popey> unlocked
[12:47] <brobostigon> oh, i see.
[12:47] <popey> iphone 4 is 429 unlocked
[12:47] <popey> brobostigon: he said 750 EUR, not GBP
[12:47] <brobostigon> ah, thats alot of difference.
[12:48] <brobostigon> popey: ah, i misunderstood.
[12:48] <oimon> htc desire S sim free £309
[12:48] <brobostigon> sorry shauno .
[12:48] <davmor2> popey: Iphone 5 then is 520-ish quid then yes?
[12:48] <popey> 500
[12:48] <Seeker`> popey: There are people that will upgrade every year regardless. There are also people that will upgrade every time if they change their appearance, and there are people (probably companies) that don't "care" about the cost of buying out contracts / spend enough to be able to upgrade their contracts nearly
[12:48] <popey> 4S, not 5
[12:48] <Seeker`> *yearly
[12:48] <shauno> I was looking around 700-750 when the 4 was new.  and I was specifically looking for factory unlocked instead of aftermarket.  just offering it as the only pricepoint I found (for those conditions)
[12:49] <davmor2> popey: I was going by the number and the general change to the first digit :)
[12:49] <popey> yeah, i got my iphone4 unlocked direct from apple
[12:49] <popey> ah
[12:49] <oimon> because you're a known fanboi :)
[12:49] <popey> because I already had a contract
[12:49] <popey> but lets not let facts get in the way
[12:49] <popey> silly facts
[12:50] <shauno> I think at the time I could only find orange.fr and one other .. I think belgian or dutch?
[12:50] <Myrtti> ladida.
[12:50] <Seeker`> hey miss Myrtti
[12:51] <davmor2> popey: The Samsung Galaxy II isn't that much nor the Moto Atrix, nor some of the tablets you can get infact
[12:51] <popey> thinking about it, I am due for a free upgrade soon
[12:51]  * popey phones orange
[12:52] <gord> geez iphones are damn expensive for what they are
[12:52] <gord> wonder how much it costs them to produce
[12:52] <gord> wonder if the packaging costs more ;)
[12:52] <davmor2> gord: £20 and a whip
[12:52] <DJones> popey: Up/down-grade to an Xperia Play to give you minecraft pocket edition :)
[12:52] <popey> hah
[12:53] <Myrtti> Seeker`: ohai
[12:53] <oimon> if you open a packet of crisps and find they are stale, do you carry eating?
[12:54] <popey> i tend not to
[12:54] <popey> just because i dont like soft crisps
[12:54] <oimon> i nearly always do, but then eat another packet to erase the memory
[12:54] <oimon> stale niknaks are actually OK if a little polystyreney
[12:55] <popey> heh
[12:55] <popey> i want crisps now
[12:56]  * popey goes to the cupboard and will return with crisps
[12:56] <popey> and a candle, some chalk and a chicken to sacrifice to damn oimon
[12:56] <gord> man... why don't i keep crisps in my cupboards
[12:56] <popey> http://i.imgur.com/DteY4.png
[12:56] <oimon> i have another unopened 10 pack of nik naks
[12:56] <davmor2> gord: you do it's just you eat them
[12:57] <gord> davmor2, those don't even make it to the cupboard :P
[12:59]  * oimon also has harbio
[12:59] <shauno> hm, unlocked from apple is 500eur for the 8GB model here.  that probably explains my 200eur gap; I went for the 32
[13:02] <popey> \o/ pringles & dips
[13:03] <popey> him and his crazy eur currency
[13:04] <shauno> lol
[13:04] <shauno> it was like that when I got here :/
[13:04] <oimon> indian $35 tablet news: http://www.ndtv.com/article/technology/basics-of-worlds-cheapest-tablet-aakash-138843
[13:04] <brobostigon> very weird, my phone reports acceleration, when it is stationary on my lap.
[13:04] <shauno> altho I dare say if they were still using the irish pound, it'd make the conversation even more confusing
[13:05] <oimon> brobostigon: gravity is acceleration towards the centre of the earth
[13:05] <Seeker`> brobostigon: is it reporting 1g downwards?
[13:05] <brobostigon> Seeker`: .18 g
[13:06] <brobostigon> oimon: yes, that i knew, but if it is standing still, then why is it reporting such.
[13:07] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: because it can't know the difference
[13:07] <MartijnVdS> "We" (humans) don't know of a way to distinguish between "acceleration" and "gravity"
[13:07] <popey> http://www.theonion.com/audio/new-angerpowered-cars-may-revolutionize-the-way-we,26244/
[13:08] <popey> brilliant
[13:08] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/198982/how-to-do-gesture-recognition-using-accelerometers
[13:08] <brobostigon> so it is reporting acceleration, even if it stationary. because it cant tell the difference, between being in acceleration and being staionary?
[13:09] <oimon> maybe your house is in freefall right now
[13:09] <MartijnVdS> or that ;)
[13:09] <Seeker`> brobostigon: there is a downwards force acting on it, is there not?
[13:09] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: check the stackoverflow link
[13:09] <brobostigon> Seeker`: correct, yes,
[13:09] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am doing so. :
[13:09] <brobostigon> :)
[13:09] <Seeker`> and force = mass x acceleration?
[13:09] <MartijnVdS> you can deduce orientation from the gravity vector :)
[13:10] <brobostigon> hmm,
[13:10] <MartijnVdS> (because you _know_ gravity)
[13:10] <MartijnVdS> (unless you plan on moving between planets/moons often)\
[13:10] <MartijnVdS> (and even then, you could detect the change from the local GPS environment, and update the "g" constant)
[13:10] <MartijnVdS> ("Moon-GPS", "Mars-GPS" etc)
[13:11] <popey> MartijnVdS: we considered moving to mars. the moving costs were fine but the atmosphere stinks
[13:11] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: minute, i am reading that link.
[13:11] <MartijnVdS> popey: 8-)
[13:12] <oimon> the bandwidth  is probably a bit ropey too
[13:12] <shauno> I'd imagine their latency would be on par with ntl's :/
[13:13] <MartijnVdS> j.p.c
[13:17] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Dave Morris] Ubuntu and Android for whole house audio - http://davemorris.wordpress.com/2011/10/05/ubuntu-and-android-for-whole-house-audio/
[13:32] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: that was a good read. it makes sense now.
[14:05]  * AlanBell is heading into london soonish
[14:05] <czajkowski> why the invasion
[14:05] <AlanBell> OpenERP partner community meetup
[14:05] <AlanBell> Waxy O Connors
[14:07] <czajkowski> http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/291839_10150405785320348_685550347_10173048_2056945624_n.jpg
[14:07] <czajkowski> AlanBell: TAYTOS!!!!!
[14:07] <AlanBell> yeah, and water at £5.50 a bottle
[14:08] <czajkowski> AlanBell: dont have water
[14:08] <AlanBell> don't worry, I will stick to the black stuff
[14:09] <czajkowski> http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/it-business/3308648/samsung-greets-news-of-iphone-4s-with-new-lawsuit/
[14:10] <AlanBell> good, and I hope Apple retaliate
[14:11] <AlanBell> injunctions are good for making people realise that the patent system is broken and not working in the interest of society
[14:11] <czajkowski> hmm how do I get a p60 when the company will not send me one I want to claim my tax back
[14:12] <AlanBell> wait for the tax return, it will all come out in the wash
[14:12] <czajkowski> the what ?
[14:13] <AlanBell> self assessment tax return, you fill out everything on that, takes ages and you get a refund
[14:14] <AlanBell> I think you can ask for one of them if you don't get sent one
[14:15] <DJones> AlanBell: Don't always get a tax return if you only have salaried employment though
[14:15] <AlanBell> you can ask for one though
[14:16] <oimon> p60 only contains a summary of information that has been supplied on your payslips though?
[14:16] <czajkowski> oimon: which I need to send to HRM or a letter of earnings on headed notepaper to claim my tax back
[14:16] <czajkowski> me giving my payslips doesnt count for sugar
[14:16] <oimon> ah :-(
[14:16] <DJones> czajkowski: Just realised, a P60 is only issued at the end of the tax year
[14:17] <oimon> my employer has gone electronic with payslips and p60 in their wisdon
[14:17] <czajkowski> DJones: aye last May
[14:17] <bigcalm> Indeed
[14:17] <oimon> they should send a p45 when you left tho
[14:17] <DJones> Info should be on the P45
[14:18] <czajkowski> which I never got a copy of
[14:18] <czajkowski> poh I could g on
[14:18] <czajkowski> but I cant drink atm as not at work
[14:18] <DJones> Are you able to request a duplicate of the P45? I'm guessing not
[14:18] <czajkowski> done
[14:19] <czajkowski> then I went on job seekers so got a P45 from them for here so am ok in that regard
[14:19] <czajkowski> just got a letter from them saying they want to give me tax back but need my p60
[14:19] <czajkowski> and around in circles I go
[14:20] <DJones> Must admit, I've never seen a company send out a P60 for an employee thats previously had a P45
[14:20] <czajkowski> DJones: you still get one and technically I was thre when a P60 should ahve been issued before i left by about a week
[14:21] <DJones> Right, so this is tax for a prior year before the P45 was issued
[14:22] <czajkowski> DJones: mind if I pm
[14:22] <DJones> Go for it
[14:36] <oimon> you can tell a CEO of a company by the way they type entire emails on the subject line , with no body.
[14:37] <brobostigon> lol
[14:40] <DJones> oimon: The directors here do the opposite, no subject & a one line email in the body
[14:40] <bigcalm> DJones: is it 'UNSUBSCRIBE' ?
[14:40] <oimon> just as bad, especially when sorting mail by subject
[14:40] <oimon> bigcalm: lol
[14:41] <oimon> i love it when people reply to list with personal stuff "hey barry how's the rash?"
[14:41] <DJones> bigcalm: Thankfully not
[14:42] <oimon> remind me not to upgrade stuff unless there's a compelling feature
[14:42] <oimon> thunderbird 6 is laggy compared to the smooth v3
[14:47] <shauno> oimon: you mean you don't want firefox 10 yet?
[14:49]  * Myrtti has had a day full of frustration and anger
[14:49] <gord> so overcast that i have to turn on the big light in the middle of the day, this is the uk autumn i'm used to
[14:49] <Myrtti> topped up with a headache, I feel altogether miserable
[14:51] <DJones> I wish you hadn't mentioned headaches
[14:52] <czajkowski> DJones: *hugs*
[14:52] <DJones> Did that idea work
[14:54] <oimon> SAD lamp FTW
[14:55] <Azelphur> Is there an archive manager for XFCE that doesn't suck? After things like drag/drop and updating files inside an archive
[14:57] <czajkowski> DJones: rang em, plan B send job center letter stating they want to give me tax back but missing p60 to liverpool so I can get new tax code for employer
[14:58] <DJones> Right, sounds like progress anyway
[14:58] <brobostigon> interesting, cameron claiming supporting gay marriage, is the conservative thing to do.
[14:59] <directhex> covering table legs because legs are sexually provocative is the conservative thing to do
[14:59] <gord> Azelphur, can't you just use file-roller like everyone else?
[14:59] <directhex> saying "yeah, sure, whatevs" is liberal
[14:59] <Azelphur> gord When you try and drag and drop with file roller, it glitches out, and then totally locks down the mouse pointer rendering the entire system unusable
[15:00] <Azelphur> have to drop to a tty and kill it to get your pointer back
[15:00] <brobostigon> directhex: it was simply somewhat unexpected, really.
[15:00] <gord> sounds like a bug to me
[15:00] <Azelphur> probably
[15:00] <czajkowski> DJones: 600 quid is a lot to walk away on
[15:01] <DJones> czajkowski: Certainly is, I don't think anybody would be happy doing that
[15:02] <czajkowski> DJones: indeed
[15:02] <czajkowski> there was a why didnt you get it
[15:02] <czajkowski> have you tried to get it
[15:08] <DJones> Sounds typical
[15:12] <oimon> analysis of most vulnerable windows programs. top 3 are also linux ones too. thankfully we have ability to update from repos. http://net-security.org/malware_news.php?id=1863
[15:26] <Azelphur> how would I create an alias so that gtk-update-icon-cache always runs with the -t param?
[15:26] <Azelphur> ugly workaround for a package not installing, will undo it once the package is installed
[15:28] <Laney> can't you edit the package's maintainer script which is running the program to add it?
[15:28] <Laney> alternatively, dpkg-divert.
[15:28] <Azelphur> Laney: doesn't seem easy :/
[15:28] <Azelphur> what's dpkg-divert?
[15:29] <Laney> lets you move the original file out of the way so you can install a script which calls it with the modified options
[15:33] <mag123> Hello, does anyone know how to make ath5k in buntu 8.10 work? I used this tutorial first time few years ago, and it worked(usinf madwifi and ath pci) : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/Atheros but this time i cant make it work, any ideas?
[15:33] <brobostigon> !8.10
[15:33] <brobostigon> it is EOL, unsupported.
[15:34] <mag123> yeah but i ve really bad equipment and it sucks with newer versions ;/ thats y i decided to go back to 8.10
[15:36] <brobostigon> have you installed, the reuired packages for that kernel module, and then insmod'ed it?
[15:37] <brobostigon> required*
[15:38] <mag123> u mean  linux-backports-modules-intrepid ?
[15:39] <brobostigon> i canot remember, probebly best to do a search on packages.ubuntu.com
[15:39] <mag123> thats wht they recommend but most of it cant be found ;/
[15:40] <DJones> If its EOL, the packages will have been removed from packages.ubuntu.com
[15:40] <brobostigon> ah, good point, isnt there the eol package repo?
[15:41] <DJones> There is http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/ butI'm not sure what the format is to amend your sources.list to use that
[15:41] <brobostigon> good question.
[15:42] <mag123> ;/ how about 9.04 is it still supported?
[15:42] <DJones> Ah, may help (different version, but should be same format) http://soniahamilton.wordpress.com/2009/05/02/apt-sourceslist-for-old-versions-of-ubuntu/
[15:42] <brobostigon> !9.04
[15:43] <bigcalm> !9.10
[15:43] <bigcalm> !10.04
[15:44] <mag123> ok guys, thx for ur help, will give it a try and bother u again if dont succed ;)
[15:44] <brobostigon> we didnt give a complete solution?
[15:44] <DJones> 10.04 is probably the oldest version still supoported
[15:44] <bigcalm> It is
[15:45] <bigcalm> And it's the last version that my viglen mpc-l will support
[15:45] <bigcalm> Or the other way around :)
[15:45] <brobostigon> if it is a old hw as he suggested, i would have used debian insted pf ubuntu, as it is lighter.
[15:46] <DJones> I'd be tempted to try xubuntu or lubuntu
[15:46] <brobostigon> and he could use the most recent version.
[15:47] <oimon> bigcalm: what doesn't work on newer versions with your viglen?
[15:47] <bigcalm> oimon: I think the CPU isn't supported past 10.04
[15:47]  * bigcalm shrugs
[15:48] <bigcalm> It's acting as a file server for my parents. No need to upgrade it really
[15:50] <oimon> bigcalm: http://appleby.is-a-geek.net/mpcl/index.html
[15:50] <oimon> this guy reckons it works
[15:52] <oimon> might just need some kernel params  "pnpbios=off pci=noacpi"
[15:52] <bigcalm> It's always needed noacpi, otherwise it doesn't boot
[15:53] <bigcalm> Down side to that is that if the power button is knocked some how, the machine turns off instantly
[15:53] <oimon> heh
[15:54] <oimon> i'm about to hide a acer aspire revo into a wall cavity
[15:54] <gord> careful it doesn't overheat
[15:54] <oimon> hope that it is stable since i don't fancy unscrewing the wall panel to reboot manually
[15:54] <gord> revo's like to produce a loot of heat
[15:54] <oimon> hmm
[15:54] <bigcalm> They do
[15:55] <oimon> it's next to an air vent
[15:55] <bigcalm> But then I'm maxing out mine most of the time. It's my web dev server
[15:55] <oimon> my will show a firefox page in kiosk mode
[15:55] <gord> try not to hit the gpu
[15:55] <gord> ie: don't use compositing
[15:56] <gord> force the cpu to underclock
[15:56] <czajkowski> gord: one for you http://twitpic.com/6vi131
[15:56] <oimon> had it running on my desk for 6 months and seemed ok for heat, although my room is bigger than the ceiling cavity at work
[15:57] <gord> why do you torment me so =\
[15:57] <DJones> I don't know why, but I was expecting that to be a picture of a cat
[15:58] <czajkowski> gord: because I've no davmor2 to torment and Moodoo we've been through this
[16:01] <gord> czajkowski, my rebuttal http://ubuntuone.com/0iIVefCBJtSIqslsJxcrUi
[16:03] <czajkowski> :)
[16:09] <davmor2> czajkowski: Stop picking on gord or so help me I'll tickle you
[16:09]  * czajkowski peers at davmor2 you_wouldn't_dare
[16:10] <davmor2> gord: see I'll stick up for you bud :)
[16:10]  * gord hides behind davmor2 
[16:10] <czajkowski> gord: think that'll save you do you
[16:10] <davmor2> czajkowski: You're daring me to tickle you that's like waving a red flag at a bull :P
[16:11] <gord> czajkowski, i think it will put davmor2 between you and me, the perfect distraction
[16:12] <davmor2> czajkowski: no but it'll slow you down greatly so he can run away :P
[16:14] <gord> don't need to be faster than the polar bear, just faster than the davmor2 and all that
[16:15] <davmor2> gord: hahaha
[16:15] <davmor2> just need to be further away to start with oh wait you are
[16:15] <czajkowski> gord: so I'm a polar bear eh
[16:15] <czajkowski> really......
[16:16]  * czajkowski peers at gord 
[16:16] <gord> was being nice, typed grizzly bear at first :P thought polar was the nicer of the two
[16:17] <davmor2> gord: hahaha wise man say when in hole stop digging :)
[16:20]  * czajkowski pushes gord into the hole he has dug with davmor2 and throws grit down! now shrup ye pups 
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: depends on where you want to go ;)
[16:21] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: To hell obviously :D
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: not Australia? :)
[16:22] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: you'd need to hit the core of the earth at some point to do that and burn in hell for the privilege
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: minor inconveniences
[16:36] <czajkowski> why is it the last 20 mins DRAG!
[16:38] <bigcalm> They only drag if you aren't enjoying the work
[16:39] <czajkowski> I#'m writing a document on how to lay out a testing plan for future reference for all platforms
[16:39] <davmor2> czajkowski: they only drag if you're not dong work :P
[16:39]  * czajkowski kicks davmor2 oi 
[16:39] <czajkowski> behave you
[16:40] <ali1234> i think i need some tool to reap out of control flash processes http://paste.ubuntu.com/702846/
[16:42] <davmor2> czajkowski: Really who do you think you just said that too ;)
[16:43]  * bigcalm spends the last 20ish mins getting things ready for tomorrow
[16:43] <bigcalm> Would be a pita if I forgot a power cable
[16:46] <davmor2> bigcalm: too right :D
[16:48] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[17:45] <GirlyGirl> Hi
[18:56]  * jacobw is unimpressed with young voter's question time
[18:56] <jacobw> 'we are totally live from salford'
[18:56] <jacobw> 'send questions in and i'll read out absolutely as many as i can'
[18:57] <jacobw> also, the banner is similar to nevermind the buzzcocks
[18:57] <Azelphur> I've never bothered to vote because none of them actually talk about anything that ever interested me
[18:57] <Azelphur> The only politician I've ever seen that'd get my vote if I could actually vote for him would probably be Obama xD
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> \o/ ##politics-uk
[19:13] <DJones> ok, so this is the 12.04 animal :) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Pangolin_borneo.jpg/413px-Pangolin_borneo.jpg
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> has it been announced?
[19:14] <DJones> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/784
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> and, as I said
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> every time someone suggests a name, it's struck from the list of potential names, not added to it :)
[19:33] <shauno> that doesn't look much like a penguin to me :/
[19:41] <xr1> anyone know where firefox 7 stores temp files.. youtube videos
[19:56] <Guest31818> Hello all - quick question, is there any way of telling how fast my usb wi-fi dongle is connecting to my wireless router?
[20:06] <Guest31818> hi anyone?  is there a quick command to test your wifi adapter's connection speed?
[20:06] <Azelphur> !patience | Guest31818
[20:08] <Guest31818> sorry - was only asking :)  im on the ubuntu pages as we speak
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> Guest31818: you can check with the "iw" command, I think
[20:10] <MartijnVdS> you'll have to look up which option yourself :)
[20:21] <shauno> xr1: youtube videos are really awkward.  flash creates a file in /tmp, opens it, and then deletes it immediately.  so you end up chasing dangling filehandles, rather than copying temp files
[20:22] <shauno> much easier to just find any of the 7 million tools that have been invented to handle just that
[20:22] <Azelphur> if GetActionBarPage() == 2 then is valid LUA right? they don't use a strange symbol for comparison? o.O
[20:23] <ali1234> you can get those dangling file handles from /proc/<pid>/fd
[20:23] <ali1234> for example
[20:23] <ali1234> tail -f -c +0 /proc/<pid>/fd/<filedes> > whatever.flv
[20:24] <ali1234> also helpful if you accidentally delete a file while it is still downloading
[20:32] <gord> i thought flash stopped making files in /tmp?
[21:13] <Azelphur> what else besides cheese can I use to record webcam?
[21:13] <Azelphur> cheese is bugging out for me :(
[21:22] <MattJ> Azelphur, let me know if you find something that works well
[21:22] <MattJ> I had similar issues with Cheese for long videos
[21:22] <MattJ> I Googled and found other solutions like VLC, but none of them worked well enough
[21:23] <Azelphur> I found guvcview but it just segfaults when I hit record
[21:23] <Azelphur> \o/
[21:24] <popey> Azelphur: guvcview
[21:24] <popey> oh, heh
[21:24] <Azelphur> lol
[21:24] <popey> you want stills or video?
[21:24] <Azelphur> video
[21:24] <popey> ffmpeg
[21:25] <popey> :D
[21:25] <Azelphur> I can't see what I'm doing if I use ffmpeg
[21:25] <popey> sure you can, mplayer it too
[21:27] <popey> heh, that works too
[21:27] <popey> I'm playing a video with a delay
[21:27] <Azelphur> I'll just cheat and use my phone \o/
[21:27] <popey> ffmpeg -an -f video4linux2 -s 1280x720  -r 15 -i /dev/video0 -vcodec mpeg4 -vtag DIVX /tmp/out.avi
[21:28] <popey> that worked for me
[21:28] <popey> change resolution accordingly
[21:28] <popey> then mplayer /tmp/out.avi
[21:30] <Azelphur> popey: worked sort of but no sound and mplayer exited because it got to the end of the file
[21:30] <Azelphur> so yea, phone job at least until cheese or uvcview is fixed :P
[21:30] <popey> heh
[21:30] <popey> you filed bugs in both?
[21:33] <Azelphur> I should do :)
[21:37] <AlanBell> evening all
[21:42] <daveycakes> just installed ubuntu on my HP laptop. even when i disable the track pad the mouse jumps around, cant seem to fix it. any ideas?
[22:11] <szymon_g> hi
[22:11] <szymon_g> could anyone tell me how can i change the fr*cking font in ubuntu11.10? "appearance" doesn't adjust fonts
[22:13] <dogmatic69_> szymon_g: http://tinyurl.com/3rv23sp
[22:14] <szymon_g> thanx dogmatic69, really helpfull. now explain me, please, why the duck i'm supposed to install gnome-shell (it's one of gnome-tweak-tool), ok?
[22:16] <szymon_g> oh, 39 packages to install- just to change a font. yeah, great
[22:17] <dogmatic69_> ...
[22:17] <shauno> I didn't think gnome-shell was in the repo.  have you added a third-party repo that it's trying to pull tweak-tool from instead?
[22:17] <szymon_g> nope
[22:17] <dogmatic69_> if you spent 15 seconds looking at the system menu you would have seen "appearance"
[22:18] <dogmatic69_> since you are trying to change the appearance that would be a good start
[22:18] <szymon_g> yeah. and can you see a font settings there?
[22:19] <dogmatic69_> yes
[22:20] <dogmatic69_> the first link in google also has a step by step (about 2 steps in total) guide
[22:21] <szymon_g> where http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/screenshotat20111005231.png/ ?
[22:21] <szymon_g> the first link tells me to install gnome-tweak-tool, which pools as dep gnome-shell
[22:22] <szymon_g> the almighty appearance program do not mention any fonts at all, i'm afraid. its ubuntu 11.10 if that matters
[22:28] <popey> dogmatic69_: i see no option to change the font in the appearance dialog
[22:29] <dogmatic69_> its called advanced now http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-v9PXJAtN2d0/TnkI4aqJaAI/AAAAAAAAAhU/EjiuP5FKBjI/s400/Screenshot%2Bat%2B2011-09-21%2B04%253A41%253A13.png
[22:30] <popey> i see nothing when searching for advanced
[22:31] <popey> and if you look at the package name...
[22:31] <popey> gnome-tweak-tool
[22:31] <popey> and there's no way I'm installing that, it pulls in gnome shell
[22:36] <szymon_g> dogmatic69, the link you provided, is a screenshot of gnome-tweak-tool
[22:40] <shauno> why does this sidebar jazz scroll past it's extents :/  that seems a bit … off
[22:58] <shauno> I forgot how bad this had actually gotten on the desktop
[23:02] <shauno> it's using my " key for the ¨diacritic, so I can't quote things in a terminal?
[23:03] <dogmatic69_> ctrl + c -> ctrl + v :D
[23:04] <shauno> heh.  I haven't found those yet.  if I right-click a terminal window, it doesn't show me the accelerators for copy/paste.  Which usually means there aren't any
[23:04] <shauno> (I'm apparently not allowed to resize the terminal window either?  other than maximize)
[23:07] <shauno> hah, it's using tilde for the ñ diacritic too, so to type ~ I have to hit the key twice
[23:07] <dogmatic69_> :/
[23:12] <popey> shauno: is this ubuntu on a mac?
[23:13] <shauno> yeah
[23:13] <popey> i had this too
[23:13] <shauno> apparently UK-mac-international is the wrong keymap to pick if you have a UK-International layout on a mac
[23:13] <popey> yeah
[23:13] <popey> I have English (UK, Macintosh)
[23:13] <popey> and it works
[23:13] <popey> although still wrong
[23:14] <shauno> I'm used to wrong.  I just really need my quote key  lol
[23:14] <popey> ` that one? or " that one?
[23:14] <shauno> ideally, both.  " was the one I couldn't figure out how to type
[23:15] <popey> with mine the squiggle in the top left is ` and ~
[23:15] <shauno> hitting " twice gave me a standalone umlaut, which looked almost convincing (to me, but not to bash)
[23:15] <popey> and the ' and ~ key gives me < and >
[23:16] <shauno> looking thru my trashpile trying to see if I can find anything from the last 20 years that uses that as a UK keymap
[23:17] <shauno> oh, it is a regular PC keyboard.  forgot the spare I have is USian  (it doesn't have \/ positioned correctly for pinball games)
[23:17] <popey> if i file a bug will you confim it shauno ?
[23:18] <shauno> would I get my wrist slapped for doing so via a VM?
[23:18] <popey> no
[23:18] <popey> the behaviour is the same AIUI
[23:18] <popey> i just tried mac internatinoal
[23:18] <popey> I have to press " twice and I get special quotes
[23:19] <popey> if I press " then space I get normal ones
[23:19] <shauno> still waiting on #782389 before I can install 'for real'
[23:20] <shauno> oh, quote-space does give me the right character
[23:21] <popey> bug 782389
[23:21] <popey> nice
[23:23] <shauno> hm, shift-6 does it too  (defaults to a diacritic, have to use it twice to get the marked glyph out of it)
[23:26] <Monsterwizard> So Linux is based on Unix?
[23:26] <Monsterwizard> The linux kernal is based on the unix kernal? :S
[23:27] <directhex> Monsterwizard: no
[23:27] <Monsterwizard> hm
[23:27] <Azelphur> Monsterwizard: it's a "unix-like" OS, meaning that it took some of the concepts of Unix and made them into an entirely new OS
[23:27] <directhex> Monsterwizard: conceptually, linux is a UNIX-like kernel (and there are many unixes)
[23:28] <Monsterwizard> Well I need to learn UNIX
[23:28] <directhex> Monsterwizard: it's a kernel for the GNU operating system, which stands for GNU's Not UNIX
[23:28] <Azelphur> Monsterwizard: ...why?
[23:28] <Monsterwizard> so using ubuntu for bash scroting and command line would be a bad idea?
[23:28] <Azelphur> this isn't 1996
[23:28] <directhex> Monsterwizard: which unix? Solaris isn't AIX isn't IRIX isn't HP-UX isn't Mac OS X
[23:28] <directhex> but all of those are unix
[23:28] <Monsterwizard> Well my teacher hasn't said linux
[23:28] <Azelphur> the term "Unix" is too vague for you to actually learn
[23:28] <Monsterwizard> I should ask him
[23:29] <Azelphur> yes, you should :)
[23:29] <Azelphur> it also sounds like your teacher doesn't know very much, Unix isn't really used much now days
[23:29] <shauno> I was just typing that.  asking would be spot on there.  since there is no one 'unix' for a *long* time
[23:29] <directhex> "unix" on its own could refer to several dozen completely different operating systems
[23:29] <Pernig> Monsterwizard: at the time there were issues with the various unix flavours legally etc
[23:29] <Monsterwizard> We connect to a server running linux while logged into windows
[23:29] <Monsterwizard> unix*
[23:29] <Monsterwizard> he has never said linux
[23:29] <Monsterwizard> just unix
[23:30] <Azelphur> Monsterwizard: but yea, "Linux" and "Unix" are incredibly vague terms
[23:30] <Azelphur> both of them are just kernels
[23:30] <Monsterwizard> We've been learning the command line and bash scripting
[23:30] <Azelphur> A Linux kernel can power anything from a nokia brick phone, to a fully fledged PC like Ubuntu
[23:30] <Monsterwizard> is it generally universal
[23:30] <Monsterwizard> Not sure what we use in school
[23:30] <Azelphur> it's somewhat universal, not all commands exist in all distros
[23:30] <Monsterwizard> but at home I use ubuntu 10:04
[23:30] <directhex> AIX, HP-UX, Solaris (SunOS), UNICOS, Mac OS X, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, DragonflyBSD, Tru64, UNIXware
[23:30] <directhex> more entries, guys
[23:30] <Pernig> most command line tools that you will be learning will work on most distros
[23:31] <directhex> that's all i have right now
[23:31] <Azelphur> if you tried to use your bash knowledge on my Linux powered router for example, you'd get nowhere
[23:31] <Monsterwizard> in fact, there was a gnome terminal
[23:31] <Azelphur> because there is no bash on there :D
[23:31] <Azelphur> but you can probably share your knowledge between most Linux based pc-style distributions easily
[23:31] <shauno> unix is more of a 'grand design' than a kernel these days.  some things conform closer to that design, some things less.  and some have paid to be allowed to say they conform to it.  and others haven't.
[23:32] <Monsterwizard> I have a terminal on my andorid
[23:32] <Monsterwizard> I can't seem to do things like pwd
[23:32] <Monsterwizard> cd
[23:32] <Monsterwizard> or sudo apt-get install
[23:32] <Azelphur> Monsterwizard: yea that's pretty much what I was saying, just because it's linux powered, doesn't mean it's gonna be like anything else at all
[23:32] <directhex> Monsterwizard: what ties different UNIXes together is a standard called POSIX. any POSIX-compliant features can be assumed to be present on any POSIX-compliant system. for example, you can't assume that a given UNIX has bash installed, but you can assume that it has a POSIX-compliant shell (bash is a POSIX-compliant shell).
[23:32] <shauno> I don't believe android uses a posix userland
[23:32] <Azelphur> Monsterwizard: apt is installed on very few systems
[23:32] <directhex> Monsterwizard: android has a linux kernel, but no POSIX at all
[23:32] <Azelphur> apt isn't at all universal :)
[23:32] <shauno> curious, does apt-get work at school ?
[23:33] <Monsterwizard> yes!
[23:33] <Monsterwizard> but I wasn't allowed to go
[23:33] <Monsterwizard> I got a message saying
[23:33] <Pernig> Monsterwizard: i am surprised you can't use cd, but apt-get won't be there, although funnily enough you can get apt onto an iphone!
[23:33] <Monsterwizard> this is for sys admins only
[23:33] <Monsterwizard> I wanted Irssi
[23:33] <directhex> Pernig: the android security model is highly segmented. android is a crap choice if you want mobile linux
[23:33] <Monsterwizard> for android :P
[23:34] <Monsterwizard> :O
[23:34] <shauno> then unless he hates himself enough to use debian's kfreebsd or hurd variants, you're probably using linux at school.  try 'uname -a' at school (requires no rights) for some juicy specifics
[23:34] <Monsterwizard> I choose it for that reason directhex
[23:34] <directhex> oh, Minix, that's another one
[23:34] <directhex> Minix is UNIX isn't it?
[23:34] <directhex> or just UNIX-like...
[23:34] <shauno> it is & isn't as much as linux is & isn't
[23:34] <Monsterwizard> It's called Ming?
[23:34] <Monsterwizard> Xming?
[23:34] <Monsterwizard> they call the server milly
[23:34] <directhex> Monsterwizard: Linux isn't UNIX. but it's as close to UNIX as anyone in 2011 needs to care about.
[23:34] <Monsterwizard> I'll see if I can connect from here
[23:35] <shauno> xming is an X server for windows; usually used as a local terminal to something better running elsewhere
[23:35] <Monsterwizard> I see
[23:36] <shauno> that's just going to confuse things even more  lol
[23:36] <Monsterwizard> how come?
[23:36] <Monsterwizard> Got to tell you, it's terrible
[23:36] <Monsterwizard> it's putting people new to linux off
[23:36] <shauno> I would honestly just ask your teacher if ubuntu, or linux in general, would make for a suitable environment to follow along in
[23:37] <Monsterwizard> I'm like "Oh no honestly it is good
[23:37] <Monsterwizard> There's rooms with fedora
[23:37] <directhex> XMing is an Xorg for Windows isn't it?
[23:37] <shauno> pretty much
[23:38] <shauno> it's not what most people new to linux would see.  It's most likely a choice your teacher has had to make, rather than install linux on all the classroom terminals (which are probably used for plenty other than just linux/unix tutorials)
[23:38] <Monsterwizard> I' going to remote connect to a PC in the comp lab
[23:38] <Monsterwizard> only to connect to that linux server :P
[23:40] <shauno> (these days I'd be a lot more tempted to just burn a stack of livecds myself)
[23:40] <Monsterwizard> I've got bored of that
[23:40] <directhex> assuming the livecds are correct out-of-the-box e.g. UK keyboard by default
[23:41] <Monsterwizard> I always always carry around a flash drive with ubuntu.10.04 :P
[23:41] <shauno> I know this is wildly off-topic here, but appears Mr Jobs is finally out of your way - http://www.apple.com/stevejobs/
[23:41] <Monsterwizard> oh no
[23:41] <directhex> Associated Press reports the end of steve jobs
[23:42] <Monsterwizard> i feel terrible for his family
[23:59] <ali1234> unix is posix
[23:59] <ali1234> unix is C stdlib
[23:59] <ali1234> unix is shells and pipes