[01:00] <valorie> yes, RIP Steve Jobs
[01:00]  * valorie leaves for PFLAG
[06:42] <ScottK> Anyone else's fonts change today?
[07:06] <GirlyGirl> 4.7.2 on oneric ... self compiled going well here
[07:30] <ulysses> they have a time machine! http://kde.org/announcements/announce-4.7.2.php
[07:30] <ulysses> "September 7, 2011. Today KDE released updates for its Workspaces, Applications, and Development Platform."
[07:35] <GirlyGirl> ulysses: How does OpenSuse get packages for KDE so quickly! Arch is pretty fast too
[07:35] <GirlyGirl> Though Suse breaks regularly with kde updates
[07:36] <ulysses> the tarballs were created about a week ago, as always, but the release is announced alway later
[10:53] <Quintasan_> wendar: Hiho, they called me and asked about where should they put the US Tax Payer ID since their system wont accept that in the NIP field which we use in Poland. I was told there are two possible fields where they can put it: next to Company name or in the Comments field
[12:33] <wendar> Quintasan: That's reasonable. I can't imagine they'll have much use for the US Tax ID, but needed the equivalent of NIP in their records.
[13:17] <apachelogger> wendar: so, you dont have any preferences on where to put the ID?
[14:05] <wendar> apachelogger: as long as it doesn't get printed on a shipping label, I can't see that it matters much
[14:06] <wendar> apachelogger: it's not relevant on the company side, purchasing hardware in Poland has no relevant tax consequences in the US
[14:11] <apachelogger> wendar: ok, I sent Quintasan an SMS, he apparently is without internet right now
[14:11]  * apachelogger wonders if someone removed the internetz from the top of big ben again ^^
[14:12] <wendar> apachelogger: thanks :)
[15:14] <debfx> apachelogger: for some reason kwin doesn't pick up the kubuntu-low-fat settings
[15:17] <debfx> aha, k-d-s overrides the window decoration style
[15:19] <ximion> hi! does someone here know why kpackagekit has been removed from Oneiric without a trace?
[15:20] <ximion> users were asking for it...
[15:25] <GirlyGirl> ximion: Doesn't muon replace it
[15:25] <ximion> GirlyGirl: No, theyre two completely different project, with different goals and different audience and different technology
[15:26] <ximion> uon replaces KPK as _default_ but users should still be able to switch to KPK if they want
[15:26] <GirlyGirl> ximion: Ah I see the issue is that it is not present in the repos?
[15:27] <debfx> ximion: the package doesn't build anymore and it depended on an old packagekit library that has been removed
[15:27] <ScottK> ximion: It's in Universe.  It didn't go away
[15:27] <ScottK> Oh.
[15:27] <ScottK> ximion: All it takes is someone who's interested to make sure it works.  If there are fixes available, it's not too late to get them in.
[15:28] <ximion> debfx: okay, that's a valid reason (and I guess it's also my fault :P)
[15:29] <ximion> ScottK: the new version of KPK, targeting the new pk-qt2-lib is called Apper - I would have to package Apper to fix this.
[15:29] <ximion> this task is already on my todo anyway, but I don't think a new version (and a new package) can make it into Oneiric now ^^
[15:30] <dantti> ximion: or you can put pk-qt1?
[15:30] <Quintasan> apachelogger: Ah, thanks once again
[15:31] <ximion> dantti: possible
[15:31] <ximion> ScottK: If I provide a patch against the packagekit package to produce a package containing the missing lib, would this be okay?
[15:34] <ScottK> ximion: As long as it doesn't affect the existing packagekit functions, yes.
[15:34] <ScottK> Also, if you can find someone to upload apper, I'll approve the exception and do the archive admin new package review.
[15:35] <ScottK> So if you can do it in the next day or two apper can still get in.
[15:35] <ximion> ScottK: Wow, that would be super-cool! But then dantti needs to say yes to it :)
[15:37] <dantti> ScottK, ximion: I'm super hell busy but I'll find time today to finish the last issue, as I don't want a release without it :P (as my clients are also used to it...)
[15:38] <ScottK> ximion: You will need to find someone to upload it.  I can't do both the new review and be uploader.
[15:38] <dantti> I'm fight right now to make a Cacti installationg work well, but I'll do that..
[15:39] <ximion> dantti: Okay... Hmm, this will become difficult, because I don't have too much time.
[15:39] <ximion> but I already started the packaging
[15:40] <dantti> ximion: afaik I'll only fix the check for updates issue, so if you package the current git code it shouldn't get broken :P
[15:40] <ximion> ScottK: okay :) Btw, which role do I need in the Ubuntu project to be able to upload some packages like packagekit, projectm etc.?
[15:40] <ScottK> MOTU
[15:44] <ximion> ScottK: hmm... Then I think I'll try to apply for MOTU - it is a pain to always go the Debian -> Sync with Ubuntu way to fix some small bugs which are only available in Ubuntu (because of never glib, for example)
[15:44] <ScottK> ximion: Are you a DD?
[15:45] <ximion> dantti: which version-number will the new apper release have?
[15:45] <ximion> ScottK: DM very soon :)
[15:45] <ximion> it took some time to get my GPG-key signed by a DD
[15:45] <ScottK> OK.  Once you have DM status, it should be relatively easy to get per-package uploader rights for the packages you maintain in Debian.
[15:45] <ximion> (fortunately there were some at Desktopsummit)
[15:46] <dantti> ximion: 0.7.0
[15:46] <ximion> that would be cool!
[15:46] <ximion> dantti: ok
[15:46] <ScottK> If it's only certain packages, PPU is easier than MOTU to get.
[15:47] <ximion> ScottK: As long as I get sponsors for my packages, DM and PPU is enough, I guess.
[15:48] <ximion> can I set bug priorities on LP with PPU?
[15:48] <ximion> (I so much want to do this to organize the bug-flood on LP. for PK, I finally managed to get it down to less than 10 reports *yay*)
[15:50] <yofel> to set the importance you need to get direct or indirect membership to ubuntu bug-control. 
[15:50] <yofel> note that upstream developers or bug triagers can get that pretty easy
[15:50] <yofel> just poke in #ubuntu-bugs
[15:51] <yofel> ScottK: where are we going to put 4.7.2 for oneiric? PPA or oneiric-updates? 
[15:52] <yofel> ximion: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugControl
[15:52] <ximion> yofel: thanks - I didn't know that
[15:53] <ximion> heh, I'm doing stuff for Ubuntu for 3 years now and I'm still missing the basics
[15:53] <ximion> (focused on Debian the past two years)
[16:02] <ScottK> yofel: I think -proposed/updates
[16:02] <ScottK> yofel: pimlibs/pim/pim-runtime are already in.
[16:02] <yofel> k
[16:03] <ScottK> The rest should still go in the PPA first for testing.
[16:39] <ximion> is someone here interested in uploading Apper to Ubuntu for me?
[16:39] <ximion> --> http://dantti.wordpress.com/2011/08/01/apper-kpackagekit-reworked-part-i/
[16:40] <Darkwing> Anyone else having issues with launchpad?
[16:40] <ScottK> Quintasan: Can you upload Apper?
[17:01] <Quintasan> ScottK: I can
[17:03] <Quintasan> ScottK: Uhh, can we get something like FFE now?
[17:14] <ximion> Quintasan: I'll have the package ready tomorrow, when dantti is ready.
[17:14] <ximion> (there are some issues to be resolved now...)
[17:15] <Quintasan> ximion: Unfortunately, tomorrow I will be in Kraków to attend a meeting with consul to get my visa. You'd want to ask someone else then
[17:15] <ximion> ScottK: how long do I have time with this?
[17:16] <ximion> eh blabla... how long can we wait with uploading Apper?
[17:16] <Quintasan> Not too long I presume
[17:16] <Quintasan> Since the Final Freeze is in effect
[17:32]  * Sput thinks it'll be weird to be calling the next release "Precise"
[17:34] <ximion> Quintasan: I guess you won't be back so early...
[17:42] <Darkwing> I do like the Pangolin though...
[17:43] <apachelogger> debfx: I am not quite sure why it does not work though
[17:44] <Darkwing> Have we started doing any blueprints for precise yet?
[17:45] <bambee> evening
[17:49] <debfx> apachelogger: in startkde we set export KDEDIRS=/usr/share/kubuntu-netbook-default-settings/:/usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kde4-profile/default/
[17:49] <debfx> maybe we need to do the same in lowfat if KDEDIRS is empty
[17:49] <apachelogger> no, the solution is to not have that in startkde :P
[17:49] <apachelogger> anywho...
[17:49] <apachelogger> it also doesnt work for the desktop
[17:49] <debfx> apachelogger: no, I mean appending the k-d-s path
[17:50] <apachelogger> hmmmm
[17:50] <apachelogger> not sure
[17:50] <apachelogger> also that would not help with the kwin problem 
[17:50] <debfx> assuming netbook-default-settings actually overrides k-d-s
[17:56] <ScottK> Quintasan: Yes.  FFe is granted (still file the bug to document it)
[17:56] <ScottK> Quintasan: Since it's Universe we need to have it in by the end of the weekend.  Sooner is better.
[17:58] <ScottK> Sput: I agree, but at least I can spell it.
[18:00] <debfx> apachelogger: appending the k-d-s path seems to work
[18:02]  * debfx uploads low-fat again
[18:11] <apachelogger> debfx: that is odd enough
[19:03] <Quintasan> wendar: Ok, done, you should get an invoice (or how else you called that) tomorrow :)
[19:03] <wendar> Quintasan: okay, great!
[19:04]  * Darkwing chuckles
[19:04] <Quintasan> wendar: I'll be going to Krakow tomorrow so if something very urgent pops out you can ask apachelogger for my phone number.
[19:05]  * Quintasan heads to bed
[19:05] <wendar> Quintasan: thanks
[19:05] <Quintasan> Gotta get up at 03:00 in the morning -_-
[19:05] <wendar> :(
[19:05]  * Quintasan == off
[19:05] <apachelogger> lord of the numbers
[19:05] <apachelogger> Quintasan: nini
[19:10] <apachelogger> bulldog98: pink pink
[19:14] <ScottK> debfx: Accepted too.
[19:31] <apachelogger> !find arm-linux-gnueabi-objdump
[19:32] <apachelogger> !find arm-linux-gnueabi-objdump oneiric
[19:41]  * yofel notes that bulldog98's error messages in khighestversion are supreme unhelpful
[19:42] <yofel> at least implement -h -.-
[20:05] <apachelogger> doomsday
[20:06] <apachelogger> error messages area always unhelpful
[20:06] <apachelogger> that is why the bat scripts had an entire framework :P
[20:06] <yofel> well, then at least of handling an error and being unhelpful the scripts should just crash
[20:06] <yofel> *instead of
[20:08] <apachelogger> is it written in python?
[20:10] <yofel> nope, ruby
[20:11] <apachelogger> no chance of crashing then
[20:17]  * Darkwing wishes there was a way to track updates to reigon.
[20:18] <yofel> to .. what?
[20:19] <Darkwing> Well, if we knew who was using our prodect we would better be able to know how to market our prodect.
[20:19] <Darkwing> I know that this walks a very fine line...
[20:20] <yofel> oh, you mean region?
[20:20] <Darkwing> Yeah, sorry... 
[20:21]  * Darkwing ponders
[20:21] <yofel> the only thing I can think of is getting some download stats from the PPA. IIRC the database stores the country the packages were downloaded from.
[20:21] <yofel> but I don't think there's something like that for the rest of the servers.
[20:23] <Darkwing> Yeah, I wanted to build some user statistics and be able to better "guess" the needs/uses of Kubuntu before they know it based on users, uses and region.
[20:24] <debfx> yay, flash 11 is in the partner archive. no more i386 on my system :D
[20:25] <Darkwing> debfx: I've just been going to adobe for it.
[20:25] <Darkwing> and copy the .so and place it where I need/want it.
[20:32] <apachelogger> flash? what is this then?
[20:32] <Darkwing> apachelogger: Who did you request for a roomie? :P:P
[20:33] <apachelogger> no one yet
[21:15]  * Darkwing facepalms
[21:15] <Darkwing> I wonder who does the CD artwork?
[21:15] <Darkwing> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DIYMarketing#A11.10_artwork
[21:16] <Darkwing> The sleeve isn't bad but... the CD disk itself is the Ubuntu logo blue.
[21:20] <yofel> wtf? Warning /!\ Kubuntu FRONT PDF is 80MB. All others are sensible sizes in the range 150 kB to 3.2 MB. 
[21:22] <yofel> Darkwing: true...
[21:22] <yofel> someone summon sheytan like yesterday
[21:45] <cyphermox> uh-oh, I'm noticing mobile broadband might be borked in oneiriic kubuntu; has anybody else had issues establishing 3g connections?
[21:53] <Linkmaster> I had a kernel panic using both ubuntu and kubuntu 11.04amd64-bit on an x120e thinkpad machine. it froze, so I'm going to have to power it off, but I want to know if you can derive anything useful before I do so
[21:54] <apachelogger> Linkmaster: #ubuntu-kernel
[21:54] <Linkmaster> thanks
[21:57] <ScottK> cyphermox: I've tethered through my Android phone and that worked.  Does that count?
[22:07] <BarkingFish> evening guys :)  Do any of you ever go bug hunting in launchpad?
[22:08] <BarkingFish> I'm having extraordinary difficulty getting this thing to do a search, I just want all the bugs which have been reported in the last 24 hours, and i can't figure out how to do it.  I just get a list of recently reported bugs which spans back about 10 minutes :P
[22:08] <apachelogger> no idea
[22:08]  * apachelogger never had that use case
[22:10] <BarkingFish> aha, nvm, i think i've twigged on how to do it :)
[22:19] <cyphermox> ScottK: no, tethering shows up as an ethernet device :/
[22:19] <ScottK> This does.
[22:19] <ScottK> OK.
[22:19] <cyphermox> I'll try to get my hands on an other 3g device, in case it's just this one
[22:19] <cyphermox> but it works just fine with nm-applet
[22:19] <BarkingFish> One other thing, are we allowed to leave personal messages on the bug reports, as opposed to using boilerplate ones?  I just left a comment on a bug reported by some guy who turned the bug title into a rant...
[22:20] <cyphermox> (I'm using it right now, stuck in traffic :/
[22:20] <BarkingFish> I am not entirely sure now whether I should have done this.
[22:20] <ScottK> cyphermox: Upstream has suggested we update to a new snapshot for our NM.
[22:20] <ScottK> It would be worthwhile to pull from the upstream git and see it that's better.
[22:20] <ScottK> BarkingFish: Search in LP sucks.
[22:20] <BarkingFish> If someone could check what I put here, and make sure I've not crossed the line, i'd appreciate it - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/869470
[22:20] <BarkingFish> ScottK, tell me about it.
[22:21] <cyphermox> ok; I can give it a shot here, later when I don't have a download cap
[22:21] <BarkingFish> It sucks, blows, chokes and pukes at the same time, ScottK 
[22:21] <apachelogger> kubotu: order beer
[22:21]  * kubotu gives apachelogger a nice frosty mug of beer.
[22:21] <BarkingFish> I wish we had a bugzilla personally :P
[22:21] <apachelogger> BarkingFish: seems good enough, the comment that is
[22:22] <BarkingFish> k, thanks apachelogger 
[22:22] <apachelogger> besides, you cannot write more unfriendly comments than I :P
[22:22] <BarkingFish> I had to edit the title too - the statement you see at the top of the bug text is what he originally put as the title :)
[22:22] <cyphermox> ScottK: btw, thanks for all the hints and help this cycle; much appreciated (and I'll happily repay in beer)
[22:22] <BarkingFish> apachelogger, I wouldn't place a bet on that. 
[22:23] <ScottK> cyphermox: Unfortunately I won't be at UDS.
[22:23] <BarkingFish> I have a temper shorter than a mosquito's knob in winter, and I'm not afraid to use it :)
[22:23] <apachelogger> lol
[22:23] <apachelogger> BarkingFish: do bug triage for some years and then look back at this moment :P
[22:23] <cyphermox> ScottK: very unfortunate, yes
[22:24] <apachelogger> ubuntu bug reports can really make you go whoop whooooop
[22:24] <BarkingFish> apachelogger, trust me. If I was anymore cuckoo than I am now, I'd be moved to switzerland and employed in a clock somewhere
[22:37] <JontheEchidna> re bug 867737, maybe for the short term (11.10) we should bump up the polkit-kde-1 | policykit-1-gnome depenency to just polkit-kde-1 for our packages
[22:37] <JontheEchidna> I've posted what I think could be a longer-term solution in the bug
[22:38] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: TLDR
[22:38] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: basically, both the gnome and kde polkit frontends should work in $DE
[22:39] <JontheEchidna> but they're only autostarted in their respective DE with OnlyShowIn in their .desktop files
[22:39] <JontheEchidna> that could be dropped, and only one would register as the official uber polkit overlord
[22:39] <apachelogger> uhm
[22:39] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: why not have a service and have dbus launch it?
[22:40] <JontheEchidna> dunno, ask polkit :P
[22:41] <JontheEchidna> but currently, packages depending on a polkit frontend assume either will work with an or dependency on the two frontends
[22:41] <apachelogger> I mean, if they use the same dbus interface you could just have any ui autostart in their desktops and if none was started dbus will start the service
[22:41] <apachelogger> that said kubuntu-desktop should drag in polkit-kde for integration reasons
[22:41] <Riddell> the release schedule says "Release Candidate" for today, is there actually one planned or is that just for confusion?
[22:42] <JontheEchidna> explicitly seeding it definitely wouldn't hurt, but people might install KDE softwares from Ubuntu, and wonder why they don't work
[22:42] <JontheEchidna> so we'll need a longer term fix eventually
[22:43] <apachelogger> Riddell: confusion I think
[22:44] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: why does it not simply use the gnome polkit ui?
[22:44] <JontheEchidna> the gnome auth daemon isn't starting at startup due to OnlyShowIn=Gnome in the .desktop file
[22:44] <JontheEchidna> and the KDE auth daemon won't start in gnome
[22:45] <JontheEchidna> they are not talking to each other and are getting a divorce :'(
[22:45] <apachelogger> I am confused
[22:45] <apachelogger> what is the scenario here?
[22:45] <apachelogger> user runs ubuntu or user runs kubuntu?
[22:46] <JontheEchidna> gnome user runs KDE app needing polkit in gnome, or KDE user runs gnome app in kde
[22:46] <apachelogger> confusing
[22:46] <apachelogger> SO
[22:46] <apachelogger> if you run gnome
[22:46] <apachelogger> won't the gnome polkit ui be installed and runnin?
[22:47] <JontheEchidna> yes
[22:47] <JontheEchidna> unless you also have KDE installed, and try to run a gnome app in thar
[22:47] <apachelogger> ok, I really do not get the problem
[22:48] <apachelogger> gnome session -> gnome polit ui -> kde app uses that ui
[22:48] <apachelogger> kde session -> kde polkit ui -> gnome app uses that ui
[22:48] <apachelogger> no?
[22:48] <JontheEchidna> if you install KDE after gnome the kde polkit ui won't be installed
[22:48] <apachelogger> right
[22:48] <apachelogger> BUG
[22:49] <apachelogger> righ there
[22:49] <JontheEchidna> and the gnome one you already have won't autostart in KDE
[22:49] <apachelogger> plasma-desktop needs to depend on polit-kde
[22:49] <apachelogger> or whatever thing provides the plasma kde session
[22:51] <JontheEchidna> either one could be made to work perfectly fine in the other DE, removing the need for an extra dependency, tho
[22:52] <JontheEchidna> (by removing the autostart restriction)
[22:53] <apachelogger> BUG
[22:53] <apachelogger> "in me gnome I have an alien dialog that asks me for auth, I am so not giving it auth"
[22:53] <JontheEchidna> with QGtkStyle it'll look native
[22:53] <JontheEchidna> with oxygen-gtk it'll look native
[22:53] <apachelogger> "canonical should fix their stuff !! or go back to sudo !!"
[22:54] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: except qgtkstyle is not used by default for kde apps
[22:54] <JontheEchidna> BUG
[22:54] <apachelogger> except oxygen-gtk does still look alien
[22:54] <apachelogger> except icons in kde apps are oxygen wherea s in gnome apps the are human
[22:55] <JontheEchidna> eh, doesn't look too bad to me: http://i.imgur.com/CFse3.png
[22:55] <JontheEchidna> if there was some way to control which registered first, that'd fix that too
[22:57] <apachelogger> on registers per DS
[22:57] <apachelogger> kde ui only registers in KDE
[22:57] <apachelogger> gnome ui only registers in gnome
[22:58] <apachelogger> s/on/one/
[22:58] <kubotu> apachelogger meant: "gnome ui onely registers in gnome"
[22:58] <apachelogger> oh, fail \p/
[22:58] <apachelogger> more fail
[22:58] <JontheEchidna> wow, the gnomie frontend actually stays in front of the window being auth'd
[22:59] <JontheEchidna> polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1++
[23:03] <JontheEchidna> calculus homework time, bbl