[04:05] <mhall119> sad day :(
[04:20] <nigelb> yeah :(
[04:21]  * pleia2 nods
[07:03] <dholbach> good morning
[07:05] <popey> morning dholbach
[07:07] <dholbach> hey popey
[07:13] <dpm> good morning all!
[07:13] <dholbach> hola dpm
[07:14] <dpm> hey dholbach :)
[07:36] <nigelb> WOW
[07:36] <nigelb> Mark actually told me the adjective before it was announced.
[07:36] <nigelb> (I didn't realize what that reply meant until now :P)
[07:39] <nigelb> I think I asked him in -devel
[07:53] <kim0> Morning all
[09:17] <czajkowski> Aloha
[09:19] <kim0> o/
[09:21] <czajkowski> hows everyone
[10:07] <AlanBell> morning
[10:07]  * AlanBell ponders this survey thing that dholbach is working on
[10:07] <dholbach> hm?
[10:08] <AlanBell> so it is a survey of Ubuntu Members about how they feel about the community and Canonical roughly speaking?
[10:08] <AlanBell> can it also go to Canonical staff who are not members?
[10:09] <dholbach> no, not exclusively - the Ubuntu-Canonical relationship will be part of it
[10:09] <dholbach> but it will be more about what inspires, but also what demotivates active members
[10:09] <dholbach> and it's mostly Jono working on it
[10:09] <AlanBell> ok
[10:09] <dholbach> I had a look over the survey questions, but it's mostly Jono
[10:09] <czajkowski> I eamils 2 canonical staff and mark last week gtoing I don';t know who their managers are but these 2 people are clear examples of canonical staff fully interacting with the community and deserve to be Ubuntu members
[10:10] <AlanBell> would also be interesting to find out what Canonical staff think they get out of the community, including OEM team and professional services and design team etc
[10:10] <czajkowski> AlanBell: and why canonical people don't join their loco is one I'd love to know
[10:10] <AlanBell> yup
[10:10] <dholbach> yes, that'd be interesting, but should probably be a separate survey
[10:10] <czajkowski> don't join and interact is a massive Q
[10:10] <czajkowski> dholbach: no part of surely
[10:11] <czajkowski> I do consider canonical part  of the ubuntu community
[10:11] <AlanBell> why professional services don't look to the LoCo for lead generation etc
[10:11] <dholbach> I agree that Canonical is part of the Ubuntu community
[10:11] <czajkowski> but i's evident canocanl staff don't by their lack of attandance at stuff in near by areas
[10:11] <dholbach> but I think you get clearer results if you handle the two separately
[10:11] <AlanBell> czajkowski: I can see why the questions may need to be different, but as I don't know what they are I can't comment really
[10:11] <dholbach> in any case, that'd be something to discuss with Jono
[10:12] <czajkowski> yeah just trying to cut down on surveys
[10:12] <dholbach> sure, it doesn't help if people get tired of surveys they are supposed to fill out
[10:13] <dholbach> but on the other hand the topic of (de)motivation is quite vague and woolly because it's probably different for every single person and we're not at the point yet where we have clear directions in which we can investigate (at least that's how it feels to me right now)
[10:14] <AlanBell> it is a two way thing
[10:14] <czajkowski> dholbach: true, I do  wondering is there a lack of motivation from canonical staff to attend events in their area, why should they bother they work 9-5 kinda thing ?
[10:14] <AlanBell> argh!
[10:14] <czajkowski> that's also not to say, I know many canonical folkis who still come out and take part at events
[10:14] <czajkowski> but there are many others who don't so just wondering why ?
[10:14] <czajkowski> AlanBell: you ok over there
[10:15] <dholbach> sure, I'm not saying that it's not interesting to find out more about this :)
[10:15] <AlanBell> there is a frankly bizarre perception in Canonical that community peeps don't work 9-5
[10:15] <czajkowski> AlanBell: I knwo I work 9:3--6 and still do Ubuntu stuff at night time as well
[10:16] <AlanBell> yeah, I work odd hours too
[10:16] <popey> i had a canonical developer logged into my laptop at 1AM recently to fix a bug.
[10:17] <popey> that was a developer though, old school debian one
[10:17] <czajkowski> aye some folks go beyond the call of duty
[10:17] <czajkowski> to go and help peoiple  they really do
[10:17] <AlanBell> they do indeed
[10:18] <czajkowski> kenvandine pitti gmb mandel  and many many more
[10:18] <AlanBell> I just got some really funny comments when organising after work drinks in London
[10:18] <czajkowski> I think it seems to depend on the team
[10:18] <czajkowski> AlanBell: I was impressed with the turn out
[10:18] <AlanBell> so was I, it was great
[10:18] <czajkowski> but it was very much Snr. Management who cam down
[10:19] <czajkowski> which was good to put the faces to the names
[10:19] <czajkowski> but also a lot of IS are in london and design team and they didn't
[10:19] <czajkowski> also I know folks have lives outside of work
[10:19] <czajkowski> so hard to find a happy medium
[10:20] <popey> I think it's an individual thing
[10:20] <popey> I've worked with people who don't go to any social events outside work hours
[10:20] <popey> work is just that, work, 9-5, a means to an end, the end being paying the bills
[10:20] <czajkowski> nods
[10:20] <popey> also working for canonical can be a pressurised environment. I can imagine people want to switch off at 6pm
[10:20] <AlanBell> yeah, and for some people Ubuntu is an at-work thing and some people it is a not-at-work thing
[10:21] <czajkowski> right
[10:22] <czajkowski> I guess for me, I find it very interesting when I see someone apply for Ubuntu membership if they are working for canonical, and don't involve themselves in their loco
[10:22] <czajkowski> or attend their loco events
[10:22] <AlanBell> for me it is not what I do for a living, but boosting awareness of open source in the UK is strategic to my business
[10:23] <czajkowski> people in locos love to meet canonical staff it does motivate them
[10:23] <czajkowski> AlanBell: makes sense, but sometimes I think people in communities can hinder a business side of things as well
[10:25] <AlanBell> depends on the community, last night we organised an OpenERP UK partner community meetup, it was fun, and we all do it for a living
[10:26] <popey> I worry that we place too much importance on canonical employees being involved in community stuff
[10:27] <czajkowski> AlanBell: yesh but corporate community I think is a bit of a difference
[10:27] <czajkowski> compare the likes of a FOSDEM community to say an apple community totally chalk and cheese
[10:27] <popey> how so?
[10:28] <popey> both are passionate about the products
[10:28] <popey> both are almost single-minded
[10:28] <AlanBell> both have long hair
[10:28] <popey> both have apple laptops :D
[11:19] <nigelb> popey++
[11:27] <Pendulum> czajkowski: I think there are a multitude of reasons why Canonical folks may not be involved in LoCos
[11:28] <Pendulum> ranging from lack of nearby LoCo to lack of time to loving Ubuntu, but spending so many hours working on it at work that they feel burned out if they try to put more than their "40 hours" into it
[11:30] <czajkowski> Pendulum: yup as I said multiple reasons, but it does get to the point where they can show their face but don't ever. hard one to pin down but am curious, less of an issue as far as I can see in USA teams tbh
[11:30] <czajkowski> and then you have dholbach and dpm who usaully attend their loco events
[11:30] <czajkowski> I know they do they blog it
[11:30] <czajkowski> it's easy to see
[11:30] <czajkowski> visable
[11:30] <Pendulum> they're also Community Team members which may make a difference there
[11:33] <czajkowski> true
[11:33] <czajkowski> but again doing it outside of their 9-5 as well. they do make an effort
[11:36] <AlanBell> bit curious about those who are active in LUGs
[11:42] <czajkowski> aye
[11:42] <czajkowski> an over lap I guess
[11:43] <czajkowski> but I guess my past expereinces of a lug are they are not Ubuntu and focus on all other aspects and if you try and bring Ubuntu into the mix it's either A) not welcomed b) not really an Ubuntu event or can ruin a loco
[11:43] <czajkowski> past experience
[11:48] <sense> Ubuntu Nederland is working together with a club of electronics enthusiasts and it is really a great help when organising events, because they are absolutely huge and we are small.
[11:48] <sense> But you do risk losing your identity, because they have a strong presence due to their size and experience.
[11:48] <sense> So when you can do it alone, you should.
[11:48] <czajkowski> sense: you're back
[11:49] <czajkowski> wellin ireland for the loco to take off we had to move our events to not be on the same day as a lugs
[11:49] <czajkowski> as we were losing what Ubuntu was to us
[11:49] <czajkowski> so they didnt get the CoC or loco teams or why they should bother
[11:50] <czajkowski> they just wanted to be a lug
[11:50] <sense> czajkowski: Apparently I am.
[11:50] <czajkowski> where've you been ?
[11:51] <sense> extended leave? :) Social changes, starting study, long holiday with a small job. I was depleted.
[11:51] <czajkowski> cool
[11:51] <czajkowski> just had lotta mails re -nl team
[11:52] <sense> Yeah, that was a bit of a mess from my part.
[11:52] <sense> But it's going fine now.
[11:56] <Pendulum> sense: \o/ I was just wondering how you were doing the other day!
[11:57] <sense> Pendulum: Hi!
[11:57] <sense> I am doing fine. Can't help to go back to see how things are going here. :)
[11:57] <Pendulum> :)
[11:58] <Pendulum> sense: hopefully at some point you'll be able to be around more? ;-)
[11:58] <dpm> hey sense, good to see you around :)
[11:58] <Pendulum> How's Cambridge?
[11:58] <sense> Pendulum: Disappointing, I was rejected in the end because apparently you need chemistry and biology both at 9 (A*, roughly) for Computer Science. :(
[11:59] <sense> I failed the offer on those two subjects.
[11:59] <sense> Got rejected.
[11:59]  * Pendulum hugs sense 
[12:00] <Pendulum> what are you doing instead?
[12:00] <sense> Computer Science at the Imperial University of Groningen.
[12:00] <sense> A bit if a downer, compared to Cambridge, but the city of the hospital I was born in is a nice one. ;)
[12:00] <sense> Only 45 students in my year.
[12:01] <sense> Academic year started 4 September here. Am still a bit bored, hope things will get better.
[12:01] <sense> Pendulum: How are you doing?
[12:02] <Pendulum> I'm doing okay. Gearing up to job hunt after having had surgery in August. I'm expecting a long search
[12:03] <sense> Pendulum: I wish you all the best during your job search! It must be hard to get one in the States at this time.
[12:04] <sense> But at least you've continued being active for the community, that must count as some job experience. :)
[12:04] <sense> How's the accessibility team doing?
[12:05] <Pendulum> It's doing :) Oneiric a11y is leaps and bounds ahead of what Natty was like and we're making good progress on other things
[12:05] <sense> good!
[12:06] <Pendulum> I'm hoping that there won't be any massive changes in anything for Precise so that we can really use the next 6 months to fix existing problems, but no way to tell until UDS at the earliest ;-)
[12:07] <sense> Yeah, lets hope they will announce nothing new or exciting! :)
[12:07] <Pendulum> oh, and today I get to meet offline one of the Gnome a11y people who kicks butt so I'm looking forward to it! She's doing a talk at a local uni that I'll hopefully be allowed to attend, as well
[12:08] <sense> We've always used GNOME's a11y as a unique selling point for Ubuntu during LoCo events. It is so great to have that available for free!
[12:08] <sense> Great work!
[12:09] <Pendulum> Really I want to go to the talk because I know she's bringing "toys"
[12:11] <Pendulum> and I have no experience with using any of the a11y devices (external magnifiers, braille readers, etc.)
[12:14] <sense> ah!
[12:15] <Pendulum> oops, time to take the cat to the vet
[12:15] <Pendulum> back later
[12:15] <sense> bye
[15:09] <dholbach> hey erward
[15:09] <dholbach> how's life over there?
[15:09] <erward> goodmorning dholbach
[15:16] <dholbach> jussi, the IRC C mailing list is not on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil?
[16:37] <dholbach> hey jono
[16:37] <jono> howdy dholbach
[16:40] <czajkowski> Sladen rocks! !
[16:40] <czajkowski> and makes my life a lot easier!
[16:42] <nigelb> czajkowski: Totally! :-)
[16:42] <nigelb> He just randomly pounces in to help anyone in trouble :)
[16:53] <jono> dpm, ping?
[16:54] <czajkowski> dholbach: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-branding/+bug/869334
[16:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 869334 in ubuntu-branding "Please upload the CD cover images to wiki.u.c/DIYMarketing" [Undecided,New]
[16:54] <dholbach> thanks czajkowski
[16:54] <dpm> hi jono
[16:55] <czajkowski> dholbach: np benefits us and stops my  irc window being poked
[16:56] <dholbach> great
[17:01]  * AlanBell hugs czajkowski for thinking to ask that!
[17:02] <czajkowski> AlanBell: thinking... I've been pooked for the last 2 days then I went and found emails from ivanka and ian promosing me I could have them before the release parties
[17:02] <czajkowski> so time to go poke people
[17:02] <czajkowski> <----- cattle poker
[17:02] <czajkowski> <-------- HOME! sleep and not online for evening
[17:03]  * AlanBell hugs czajkowski for nothing in particular then :)
[17:03] <czajkowski> :)
[17:08] <dholbach> alright my friends - time to call it a day - see you all tomorrow!
[17:08] <nigelb> g'nite dholbach
[17:08] <dholbach> bye :)
[17:26] <jono> popey, pleia2 ok, survey sent out
[17:26] <jono> I added your input pleia2, many thanks
[17:26] <pleia2> jono: great, thank you
[17:27] <jono> thanks for your input
[17:27] <jono> I think this will help get some solid data to move forward with
[17:29] <popey> ncie one
[17:29] <popey> *nice
[17:32] <jono> biab
[17:43] <cjohnston> /14/14
[18:45] <maco> jono: your name is michelle?
[18:46] <Tm_T> maco: yes, didn't you know?
[18:49] <Tm_T> hmmm, I wonder why I got that mail in that box...
[18:51]  * andol wonders if the surverymonkey.com "Ubuntu Community Survey" he just got might be legit...
[18:52] <cjohnston> it is andol
[18:52] <jono> maco, heh, it must have sent it from her address
[18:53] <head_victim> Jono Michelle Bacon perhaps?
[18:53] <andol> (Yeah, wondered about the from/reply-to as well)
[18:53] <andol> Thanks
[18:56] <maco> O_o @ pg 16
[18:56] <maco> "packaging" is not a team
[18:58] <jono> head_victim, LOL
[18:58] <maco> neither is programming
[18:58] <maco> and accessibility's not on the list
[18:58] <jono> maco, there are packaging and programming teams
[18:59] <head_victim> jono: maybe your parent's were looking for a baby girl, who knows ;)
[18:59] <maco> jono: there's ~ubuntu-dev which encompasses both activities
[18:59] <jono> added accessability
[18:59] <jono> maco, ok
[18:59] <maco> head_victim: ow you hurt my head. i just read that as "jono michelle bachmann"
[19:00] <AlanBell> is that the one who makes Sarah Palin look like a good idea?
[19:01] <head_victim> maco: oh she's am American politician?
[19:01] <maco> AlanBell: yes
[19:02] <technoviking> jono: the survey that was just sent out seems broken, keep restarting the survey when I finish
[19:02] <head_victim> I just skimmed her wikipedia article, scary.
[19:03] <jono> technoviking, it should work, other people have responded
[19:03] <technoviking> must be my browser, Damn you Chrome!
[19:05] <jono> thanks for sticking with it technoviking
[19:07] <head_victim> Well I'll have a look at the survey tonight when I've been awake longer than half an hour. Cheerio, work calls.
[19:07] <popey> evening all
[19:07] <Tm_T> jono: as I'm not aware of the technical solutions how the said mail was sent, what dictates to what email addrees those mails are sent?
[19:08] <popey> jono's little black book Tm_T
[19:08] <jono> Tm_T, not sure, it is from SurveyMonkey
[19:08] <popey> Tm_T: extracted from launchpad by dholbach AIUI
[19:08] <Tm_T> hmmm, it didn't use my primary email selected there though
[19:08] <Tm_T> what makes me wonder
[19:08] <jono> oh yeah, in terms of which email addresses we sent it to, it is all members in Launchpad
[19:09] <czajkowski> technoviking: gah same issue I had also
[19:09] <jono> Tm_T, dholbach can let you know the details if you ping him
[19:09] <czajkowski> thought something was up
[19:09] <czajkowski> filled it in twice now
[19:09] <Tm_T> thanks
[19:09] <czajkowski> grrrrrr
[19:09] <czajkowski> don't have FF on this machinen
[19:09] <maco> it finished fine on chromium for me
[19:10] <maco> (13 on natty)
[19:11] <jono> back soon, if you have trouble with the survey, feel free to email your viewpoints
[19:51] <czajkowski> done
[19:51] <czajkowski> but dear gods a page number 1 of x would be great
[22:31]  * AlanBell waves goodbye to the community council https://launchpad.net/~communitycouncil/+members o/
[23:01] <pleia2> heh :)
[23:01] <pleia2> hopefully the poll will go out tomorrow
[23:58] <greg-g> oh geez, yeah, 2 minutes!