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| NCommander | #startmeeting | 14:59 |
|---|---|---|
| meetingology | Meeting started Thu Oct 6 14:59:20 2011 UTC. The chair is NCommander. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. | 14:59 |
| meetingology | Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired | 14:59 |
| NCommander | [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Meeting/2011/20111006 | 15:00 |
| janimo | hi | 15:00 |
| NCommander | [link] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/oneiric/ubuntu-arm.html | 15:01 |
| * davidm waves | 15:02 | |
| ogra_ | i dont think we need to look at specs for O | 15:02 |
| * NCommander waves back | 15:02 | |
| NCommander | Yeah | 15:02 |
| ogra_ | lets use the time at the end to look at ÜP specs instead | 15:02 |
| NCommander | [topic] ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey) | 15:02 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Server Status (NCommander, Daviey) | ||
| * davidm is upset that the HTC Flyer pricing was a mistake | 15:03 | |
| NCommander | ogra_: I have nothing drafted for a meeting on it. We can do that next week | 15:03 |
| NCommander | server side, I have nothing new to report | 15:04 |
| ogra_ | NCommander, we need to have the drafts registered by next week | 15:04 |
| NCommander | ogra_: I'm aware. | 15:04 |
| ogra_ | so we need to discuss them today | 15:04 |
| ogra_ | at least who adds which | 15:05 |
| NCommander | ogra_: then I'd appericate it if you had asked me to bring it up before the meeting or even put it on the agenda. | 15:05 |
| ogra_ | (and i doubt we have anything beyond banshee to discuss at all anyway) | 15:05 |
| ogra_ | NCommander, will do next time, but that doesnt change the deadline now :) | 15:05 |
| ogra_ | and you just said you are aware | 15:06 |
| NCommander | ogra_: we have the P Blueprints page, and we've gone over it in this meeting before. | 15:06 |
| ogra_ | right | 15:07 |
| ogra_ | who registers and drafts which one then ? | 15:07 |
| ogra_ | i assume david will not do all he has assigned | 15:07 |
| NCommander | I'm drafting all the ARM server ones and will assign them after UDS after discussions with the team | 15:08 |
| GrueMaster | sigh. Can we stick to the agenda? I have added Blueprints to the meeting wiki. | 15:08 |
| ppisati | NCommander: anything kernel related? | 15:08 |
| ogra_ | GrueMaster, thanks ! | 15:08 |
| NCommander | [topic] Kernel status | 15:08 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kernel status | ||
| NCommander | ppisati: not to my knowledge, anything to report? | 15:08 |
| ogra_ | yes, lets stick to the agenda, i didnt mean to start a discussion (since i thought it was clear we have to do it today) | 15:09 |
| ppisati | nothing new to report this week | 15:09 |
| janimo | no new ac100 either, I was kind of hoping upstream fixes speaker sound - ongoing | 15:09 |
| ppisati | NCommander: nope, that's why i was asking | 15:09 |
| ogra_ | janimo, its fixed :) | 15:09 |
| ogra_ | janimo, see #ac100 | 15:09 |
| ogra_ | janimo, time for a zero day SRU i'd say ;) | 15:09 |
| ogra_ | (after some testing) | 15:10 |
| janimo | ogra_, well, marvin says one more patch is pening | 15:10 |
| janimo | pending | 15:10 |
| ogra_ | k | 15:10 |
| infinity | If the patchset is small, I'd accept it today. :P | 15:10 |
| infinity | But 0-day works too. | 15:10 |
| ogra_ | ppisati, xranby reported stability issues on omap4 | 15:10 |
| ogra_ | i assume GrueMaster doesnt do many heavy load tests so that went unnoticed it seems | 15:11 |
| janimo | indeed, would be nice to have it for release | 15:11 |
| ogra_ | janimo, ++ | 15:11 |
| ppisati | ogra_: i'll ping him | 15:11 |
| ogra_ | great, there should also be a bug open already | 15:11 |
| GrueMaster | ogra_: I haven't been able to get past the installer on dailys. | 15:11 |
| ogra_ | GrueMaster, yeah, thats what i mean :) | 15:11 |
| ppisati | omap4? | 15:11 |
| ogra_ | yep | 15:11 |
| ogra_ | panda | 15:12 |
| ppisati | uhm | 15:12 |
| ppisati | on cdimage i don't see any daily for omap (that is not a preinstalled one) | 15:12 |
| infinity | ppisati: All our images are preinstalled. | 15:13 |
| NCommander | except netboot | 15:13 |
| ppisati | btw, today i reinstalled an omap4 preinstalled and it was ok | 15:13 |
| GrueMaster | ppisati:The installer I am referring to is oem-config. It is part of Ubiquity. | 15:13 |
| ogra_ | great to hear ! | 15:13 |
| ppisati | but yes, couldn;'t get ubiquity to start | 15:13 |
| GrueMaster | And is part of every preinstalled image. | 15:13 |
| infinity | ppisati: Couldn't get it to start? | 15:13 |
| ppisati | nope | 15:14 |
| ppisati | crash | 15:14 |
| infinity | ppisati: Was there a bug filed? | 15:14 |
| ppisati | infinity: didn't check, i thought there was something wrong on my side | 15:15 |
| infinity | Possibly. | 15:15 |
| ppisati | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity | 15:15 |
| ppisati | but it seems there are quite a bit open | 15:16 |
| ppisati | bugs | 15:16 |
| NCommander | [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo) | 15:17 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo) | ||
| ogra_ | banshee ! :) | 15:17 |
| ogra_ | so lets make a decision ... since RC doesnt happen today we have a bit wiggle room | 15:18 |
| NCommander | GrueMaster: and I did some work on finding the root of the crash and some workaround attempts Allailed | 15:18 |
| === fader_ is now known as fader | ||
| GrueMaster | Sadly, it builds. It even installs. | 15:18 |
| ogra_ | NCommander, GrueMaster do you see any chance for a fix (even an SRU) in time ? | 15:18 |
| NCommander | ogra_: I say we ship withe banshee despite the breakge. Changing el seeds is el suidice IMHO at this point | 15:18 |
| ogra_ | if not i'll change the seeds right after meeting | 15:18 |
| ogra_ | NCommander, i have approval and RB was tested | 15:19 |
| NCommander | ogra_: I think the odds are on par with you quitting smoking:-/ | 15:19 |
| davidm | what is the status on banshee | 15:19 |
| davidm | I don't want to ship broken as it could be months for an SRU | 15:19 |
| ogra_ | i only want to ship banshee if there are realistic chances that we can get a fix | 15:19 |
| GrueMaster | RB doesn't support ubuntuone from what I could tell. | 15:19 |
| NCommander | GrueMaster: it should | 15:19 |
| ogra_ | davidcalle, i'll happily ship it broken if i can get a word from NCommander that there is a chance for a zero day SRU or some such | 15:20 |
| NCommander | RB support predated bansheesupport | 15:20 |
| GrueMaster | The banshee issue feels like a missing package or setting issue. | 15:20 |
| davidm | It does not but I don't care working player beats broken player with unknown repair | 15:20 |
| ogra_ | if thats clearly impossible lets drop it | 15:20 |
| NCommander | the less dependence on a framework known to be dodgy on ARM, the happiler I am | 15:20 |
| ogra_ | so its all based on michaels judgement | 15:20 |
| NCommander | ogra_: you gotapproval to ship RB. Make it happen | 15:21 |
| davidm | NCommander, what is the likely hood of a fix by next Thursday? | 15:21 |
| ogra_ | and since he said that i would stop smoking before it gets fixyed ... | 15:21 |
| * ogra_ lights a cigarette and opens a terminal in the seeds dir :) | 15:21 | |
| NCommander | davidm: Unlikely. Its crashing in pure mono code, and I've yet to get mdb to work properly under ARM | 15:22 |
| NCommander | davidm: nor has GrueMaster managed to getone going throguh MonoDevelop | 15:22 |
| ogra_ | yeah, lets keep banshee for P :) | 15:22 |
| ogra_ | how about ftbfs beyond banshee ? | 15:22 |
| GrueMaster | davidm: The fix could happen as early as today or as late as it takes. In my opinion, it is not an easy nut to crack, even with debugging symbols. | 15:22 |
| davidm | OK then lets pursue RB for release, and fix banshee later if at all possible | 15:23 |
| ogra_ | yep | 15:23 |
| ogra_ | or concentrate on having a rock solid banshee in P | 15:23 |
| ogra_ | and dont waste time on O | 15:23 |
| NCommander | [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander) | 15:23 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander) | ||
| ogra_ | they build and work | 15:23 |
| ogra_ | for everyone bug GrueMaster | 15:23 |
| GrueMaster | For most people. | 15:24 |
| ogra_ | s/bug/but even | 15:24 |
| janimo | mx5 is very slow though | 15:24 |
| ogra_ | janimo, how is mx5 ? | 15:24 |
| ogra_ | heh, snap | 15:24 |
| GrueMaster | I have yet to get through oem-config without it respawning several times. | 15:25 |
| janimo | everyone who tested it says the same | 15:25 |
| ogra_ | well, it installs and its a "tech preview" | 15:25 |
| GrueMaster | on omap4. | 15:25 |
| janimo | GrueMaster, for me once it respanwed was the sign the system was installed | 15:25 |
| janimo | but hmm, maybe not ocnsistently | 15:25 |
| ogra_ | janimo, that doesnt help | 15:25 |
| janimo | I know | 15:25 |
| GrueMaster | I believe the mx5 issues are swap related. I seemed to get a bit better performance once I had a working swapfile. | 15:25 |
| ogra_ | since you still have jasper and ubiquity installed then | 15:25 |
| GrueMaster | And no user account some of the time. | 15:26 |
| janimo | GrueMaster, but it has ~800Mb of RAM no? The beagle was snappier with less RAM | 15:26 |
| ogra_ | GrueMaster, oh, intresting | 15:26 |
| ogra_ | that indicates that it breaks reaqlly really early | 15:26 |
| GrueMaster | janimo: I thought it only had 512 | 15:26 |
| infinity | 868432 | 15:27 |
| ogra_ | bug 868432 | 15:27 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 868432 in SchoolTool Gradebook "• one of Worksheets view or Worksheet's title edit view show unstranslated value " [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868432 | 15:27 |
| infinity | ogra_: No, that was the amount of RAM on an mx53loco. :P | 15:27 |
| ogra_ | hmm | 15:27 |
| ogra_ | lol | 15:27 |
| ogra_ | NCommander, move ? | 15:28 |
| GrueMaster | On my system, last time I tried an image it failed to load the panel and several other issues until I had a working swapfile. | 15:28 |
| infinity | Well, swap is back on again. | 15:28 |
| ogra_ | well, swap should be back | 15:28 |
| GrueMaster | I'll test today's image in a bit. | 15:29 |
| NCommander | [tpic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander) | 15:30 |
| NCommander | we | 15:30 |
| NCommander | [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh) | 15:30 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: QA Status (GrueMaster, mahmoh) | ||
| GrueMaster | I have spent most of the week tracking down the banshee issue. I have ruled out possible SMP issues and for the most part, mono core and addons work from what I can tell by running other apps. | 15:32 |
| NCommander | GrueMaster: anything tobring up | 15:32 |
| GrueMaster | I have also been trying to get some feedback from banshee developers on the #banshee channel on irc.gnome.org. | 15:33 |
| GrueMaster | Will continue on those tracks today. | 15:33 |
| NCommander | k anything else? | 15:33 |
| GrueMaster | Daily image for today just booted through oem-config for me (and there was much rejoicing). | 15:33 |
| GrueMaster | Although there is a crash report I'll need to look at. | 15:34 |
| === zz_bigbash is now known as bigbash | ||
| GrueMaster | Is unity-2d supposed to use the same settings as Unity for hiding the panel? If so - fail. | 15:35 |
| GrueMaster | crash appears to be oem-config. Maybe I'll have something useful to report on it.finally. | 15:35 |
| ogra_ | i think the default is "2" in dconf-editor | 15:35 |
| ogra_ | not sure which hide behavior that sets :P | 15:36 |
| ogra_ | but there should be a description in the editor | 15:36 |
| GrueMaster | Ugh. Can't report crash on oem-config because libgtk2.0-0 is out of date. | 15:37 |
| GrueMaster | There was no description in gconf-editor for that key. | 15:37 |
| ogra_ | dconf... | 15:37 |
| ogra_ | gconf is dead | 15:37 |
| GrueMaster | At least none that I saw. | 15:37 |
| GrueMaster | ok | 15:37 |
| GrueMaster | Will look later. | 15:37 |
| ogra_ | if you still have gconf settings anywhere thats a bug | 15:38 |
| GrueMaster | Nothing else here. | 15:38 |
| infinity | Once this new apt builds, I might spin a new set of images. | 15:38 |
| infinity | Installer performance will seem a bit snappier. | 15:38 |
| infinity | For a 6 minute period or so that update-apt-xapian-index isn't killing your SD in the background. :P | 15:39 |
| GrueMaster | I would ask that everyone on the team with a working panda please try to do some testing with the daily desktop image. I am seeing too many crashes for a good release. | 15:40 |
| * ogra_ didnt see any in the last image he tested | 15:41 | |
| ogra_ | that was a few days after beta | 15:41 |
| GrueMaster | Hence why I said "daily". Beta was 2 weeks ago. | 15:42 |
| infinity | Oh, we need to get on ndec's case about the ti-omap-extras stuff actually existing for oneiric. | 15:42 |
| ogra_ | GrueMaster, yes, i tested a dail | 15:43 |
| ogra_ | y | 15:43 |
| ogra_ | as i said | 15:43 |
| ogra_ | a few days after ... | 15:43 |
| GrueMaster | today's daily. A lot of packages have changed in the last two weeks. | 15:43 |
| ogra_ | sure | 15:43 |
| === bigbash is now known as zz_bigbash | ||
| ppisati | 6th Oct daily + morning dist-upgrade = ubiquity crash (at least here) | 15:44 |
| NCommander | [topic] Linaro Updates (rsalveti) | 15:44 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Linaro Updates (rsalveti) | ||
| GrueMaster | Just filed bug 869284. | 15:44 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 869284 in geoclue (Ubuntu) "geoclue-master crashed with signal 5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/869284 | 15:44 |
| * rsalveti waves | 15:44 | |
| ogra_ | i think i saw evan talk about that issue today | 15:44 |
| rsalveti | not much to report from the Linaro side this week, besides the planning for the 11.10 cycle | 15:44 |
| rsalveti | https://launchpad.net/linaro-ubuntu/+milestone/11.10 | 15:44 |
| === beuno is now known as beuno-lunch | ||
| rsalveti | jcrigby pushed the fix for bug 867670 and bug 867650 | 15:45 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 867670 in u-boot-linaro (Ubuntu) "OMAP 4460 based pandas run too hot at current operating point" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/867670 | 15:45 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 867650 in u-boot-linaro (Ubuntu) "OMAP4 eMMC support is missing" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/867650 | 15:45 |
| rsalveti | but as SRU | 15:45 |
| rsalveti | still in progress | 15:45 |
| ogra_ | rsalveti, how is the move to oneiric going ? | 15:45 |
| infinity | rsalveti: I need to talk to him about that. | 15:46 |
| infinity | rsalveti: But the fixes he pushed looked entirely suitable for release. | 15:46 |
| rsalveti | ogra_: we're still blocked with bugs at the linaro-image-tools | 15:46 |
| ogra_ | :( | 15:46 |
| rsalveti | infinity: is it critical enough for the releasE? | 15:46 |
| rsalveti | ogra_: but we expect to have working images next week | 15:46 |
| ogra_ | we too :) | 15:47 |
| infinity | rsalveti: Did we not want 4460 to work with oneiric images? | 15:47 |
| rsalveti | I'll also make sure the unity3d packages are in place, so we can demonstrate it with oneiric + latest sgx packages | 15:47 |
| infinity | rsalveti: It's not like we're respinning images post-release. | 15:47 |
| * ogra_ hugs rsalveti | 15:47 | |
| ogra_ | rsalveti, if you need me for PPA copying or anything, ping me | 15:47 |
| ogra_ | (for 3D) | 15:48 |
| rsalveti | infinity: yeah, there's one issue for 4460 that might be important for the release | 15:48 |
| rsalveti | ogra_: sure, I'll let you know when I get it all working | 15:48 |
| infinity | rsalveti: The overheating one, at least. But I thought I saw another. | 15:48 |
| rsalveti | but I should be able to have a PPA for that | 15:48 |
| infinity | rsalveti: Still, the installer setting your board on fire is bad enough. :P | 15:48 |
| rsalveti | infinity: yup :-) | 15:48 |
| rsalveti | infinity: let's talk about this at #ubuntu-arm then | 15:48 |
| ogra_ | rsalveti, well, they eventually need to end up in the ti ppa | 15:48 |
| GrueMaster | meh. Self-heating. | 15:49 |
| rsalveti | ogra_: oh, that's fine by me, thought we would like a separated ppa for that | 15:49 |
| ogra_ | well, winter is near in the northern hemisphere ... probably the pandas know that ;) | 15:49 |
| rsalveti | once I have the packages all working I'll let you know, then we can make sure it lands at the proper ppa | 15:49 |
| * GrueMaster looks outside. Near? | 15:49 | |
| ogra_ | rsalveti, well, whatever works, effectively panda is the only thing we can run it on atm | 15:49 |
| rsalveti | yeah | 15:50 |
| ogra_ | so it makes sense to put it in the TI one i think | 15:50 |
| rsalveti | sure, and it's already enabled by default once you installed the sgx drivers | 15:51 |
| rsalveti | :-) | 15:51 |
| ogra_ | right | 15:51 |
| rsalveti | that's all from my side | 15:51 |
| ogra_ | NCommander, move | 15:51 |
| rsalveti | next week I should have all the planning for connect/uds in place | 15:52 |
| rsalveti | at least from my side | 15:52 |
| ogra_ | NCommander, move ! | 15:52 |
| ogra_ | time is running out and we need to get the specs assigned | 15:53 |
| ogra_ | davidm, did you see the recent additions to the spec ideas page ? | 15:54 |
| * ogra_ gets the feeling he talks to an empty room | 15:54 | |
| * rsalveti is still around, but not important anymore | 15:55 | |
| davidm | ogra_, nope have not | 15:55 |
| davidm | I'll have a look | 15:55 |
| ogra_ | davidcalle, see the two smagoun buts at the bottom | 15:55 |
| ogra_ | that looks like linaro material | 15:55 |
| NCommander | [topic blueprints | 15:55 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: blueprints | ||
| ogra_ | so NCommander said he'd take all server specs and have them registered next week | 15:56 |
| NCommander | [chair] ogra_ | 15:56 |
| meetingology | Current chairs: NCommander ogra_ | 15:56 |
| ogra_ | infinity, are you taking the HF spec ? | 15:56 |
| * infinity looks. | 15:56 | |
| ogra_ | since you do the work i guess ... | 15:56 |
| infinity | But I imagine I am. Didn't know there was one. :P | 15:56 |
| ogra_ | it just says armhf _) | 15:56 |
| infinity | Ahh. Kay. | 15:57 |
| infinity | Yeah, I'll take that. | 15:57 |
| * ogra_ still doesnt know what "linaro arm boot " is supposed to mean | 15:57 | |
| ogra_ | davidm, can we skip that one until its clear what it means ? | 15:57 |
| ogra_ | then we have "ARM ISO install for non-mmc hardware" | 15:58 |
| infinity | Does smagoun realize that an emulated live-build is likely to be slower than the real thing? | 15:58 |
| ogra_ | who wants that ? i suspect its just d-i images | 15:58 |
| janimo | ogra_, I think that means 'arm boot speed' | 15:58 |
| ogra_ | infinity, i think he doesnt want qemu, they used it in the past | 15:58 |
| ogra_ | janimo, linaro arm boot ? | 15:58 |
| infinity | ogra_: He has to have qemu. | 15:58 |
| ogra_ | janimo, do you want to take it ? | 15:58 |
| janimo | ogra_, yes. I think so | 15:58 |
| infinity | ogra_: His packages won't magically install on x86. | 15:59 |
| ogra_ | and find out if thats true ? | 15:59 |
| janimo | ogra_, well it is a postponed one from O so I guess I'll do something related still | 15:59 |
| ogra_ | infinity, well, qemu-arm-static ... | 15:59 |
| infinity | ogra_: Still qemu. | 15:59 |
| ogra_ | janimo, a postponed one ? | 15:59 |
| infinity | ogra_: Anyhow, I should probably take smagoun's specs, so I can shoot them down as crack. | 15:59 |
| ogra_ | oh, yours | 15:59 |
| ogra_ | indeed | 15:59 |
| janimo | ogra_, yes | 15:59 |
| ogra_ | infinity, well, one is clearly linaro | 15:59 |
| davidm | infinity, unless smagoun is going to do the work | 16:00 |
| ogra_ | the package cross build stuff was already discussed art ubuntu-devel | 16:00 |
| ogra_ | which he apparently doesnt read, else he could have participated :) | 16:00 |
| ogra_ | davidm, do we expect achiang to work on the spec he proposed ? | 16:01 |
| ogra_ | i think he is oem | 16:01 |
| ogra_ | else one of us has to take the firefox elfhack one | 16:01 |
| infinity | I think our time's up. | 16:02 |
| ogra_ | well, that doesnt go anywhere here, lets adjourn, i'll assign specs that have no owner | 16:02 |
| * ogra_ thinks him holding monologues to the team with only infinity participating is a waste of time | 16:02 | |
| ogra_ | #endmeeting | 16:02 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ||
| meetingology | Meeting ended Thu Oct 6 16:02:49 2011 UTC. | 16:02 |
| meetingology | Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-06-14.59.moin.txt | 16:02 |
| skaet | ogra_, is bug 803752 still going to land? | 16:03 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 803752 in jasper-initramfs (Ubuntu Oneiric) "jasper needs to support preseed files " [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/803752 | 16:03 |
| ogra_ | skaet, nope, i thought i had closed it | 16:03 |
| * ogra_ does so now ... preseeding is supported, just not preseed files | 16:03 | |
| davidm | ogra_, I hope achiang will step up if not likely the task will not get scheduled | 16:03 |
| ogra_ | k | 16:04 |
| skaet | ogra_ thanks. Also, what about ac100 tarball installer. | 16:04 |
| skaet | ? | 16:04 |
| davidm | just because there is an idea, no matter how good does not mean we do it. | 16:04 |
| skaet | bug 856278? | 16:04 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 856278 in ac100-tarball-installer (Ubuntu Oneiric) "installation mode from SD card to USB key fails" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856278 | 16:04 |
| ogra_ | skaet, ?? what about it ?? | 16:04 |
| ogra_ | skaet, ah, thats a special case | 16:05 |
| skaet | :) | 16:05 |
| ogra_ | (sorry lagging here) | 16:05 |
| ogra_ | i can release note it, the majority of people installs to internal | 16:05 |
| skaet | fair enough. thanks, just trying to get my lists pared down. ;) | 16:06 |
| === beuno-lunch is now known as beuno | ||
| kees | o/ | 17:58 |
| * stgraber waves | 17:58 | |
| * pitti says hello | 17:59 | |
| pitti | seems the "chair: sabdfl" is obsolete, Mark already sent his apologies and he isn't an official board member any more anyway | 18:01 |
| pitti | seems the brainstorm review is now done, thanks cjwatson | 18:02 |
| pitti | http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/ubuntu/2011-10-06-brainstorm-review.html | 18:02 |
| pitti | no community bugs either | 18:03 |
| pitti | I didn't see anything on the ML, did I miss something? | 18:03 |
| wendar | ARB | 18:04 |
| pitti | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-October/001100.html | 18:04 |
| pitti | is a new one | 18:04 |
| pitti | hey wendar | 18:04 |
| wendar | hi | 18:04 |
| pitti | #startmeeting | 18:04 |
| meetingology | Meeting started Thu Oct 6 18:04:34 2011 UTC. The chair is pitti. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. | 18:04 |
| meetingology | Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired | 18:04 |
| pitti | #topic recruiting new members for the ARB | 18:04 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: recruiting new members for the ARB | ||
| pitti | I admit I haven't read it yet, shall we allow some minutes to read/digest it? | 18:05 |
| pitti | (release crunch, sorry0 | 18:05 |
| ScottK | I've always found the lack of a requirement to be a developer troubling. | 18:06 |
| kees | ScottK: "evidence of activity" isn't really as strong as _being_ a developer | 18:07 |
| pitti | I find that a bit troublesome as well; being able to spot problems in these packages requires at least some packaging experience | 18:08 |
| wendar | we've talked about that, in the current group, and generally assume that we will make it a requirement in the future, so for this cycle we looked for applicants who are Ubuntu developers | 18:08 |
| pitti | hopefully this will be ensured by the voting/application process, but perhaps it could be made explicit? that an applicant should at least be a PPU? | 18:08 |
| ScottK | I find it particularly troubling given it's enabled in the default install. | 18:08 |
| stgraber | pitti: member of ~ubuntu-dev should match all PPU/MOTU/Core-dev (unless we forgot to add some members to that team) | 18:10 |
| wendar | the only reason we haven't already made it a requirement, is that we're unsure how to handle the fact that half the current ARB aren't Ubuntu Developers, and we're already hurting for bodies | 18:10 |
| pitti | aside from that the proposal seems straightforward and clear to me | 18:10 |
| wendar | but, we could make it a requirement now, with a transition plan | 18:10 |
| pitti | wendar: is that becuase these members aren't generally interested in Ubuntu packaging? do they want to become ubuntu devs? | 18:11 |
| wendar | I certainly do :) | 18:11 |
| wendar | I'm pretty sure the other ARB member does too | 18:11 |
| kees | how about making it policy now, but allow for existing members to be allowed with the stated intention that they are working towards dev? | 18:12 |
| ScottK | I'm fine with that. | 18:12 |
| wendar | sounds good | 18:12 |
| pitti | the requirements to these packages are quite a bit different to 'ordinary' packages, with /opt and all that, but one should at least be familiar with packagign basics | 18:12 |
| pitti | kees: that sounds good; I certainly don't intend to invalidate the current board | 18:13 |
| pitti | so the proposal is | 18:14 |
| pitti | - Ubuntu membership | 18:14 |
| pitti | + https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev membership | 18:14 |
| * kees nods | 18:14 | |
| ScottK | Is Ubuntu membership required for PPU? | 18:14 |
| pitti | stgraber: WDYT? | 18:14 |
| stgraber | pitti: +1 | 18:15 |
| ScottK | As long as Ubuntu membership is required for PPU, I think that's good. | 18:15 |
| pitti | ah, I'm fine with making that explicit and just have both requirements | 18:16 |
| pitti | ScottK: technically I think ubuntu membership is a consequence of being in ubuntu-dev | 18:16 |
| stgraber | also, all 3 current applicants we (as in ARB) have on our list are members of ~ubuntu-dev | 18:16 |
| Daviey | Hmm, i thought PPU was an avenue to get membership? | 18:16 |
| pitti | but I'm not entirely sure whether the DMB requires that as a prerequisite, or grants it together with PPU | 18:16 |
| Daviey | (via ~ubuntu-dev?) | 18:16 |
| stgraber | IIRC we (as in DMB this time) simply grant it by giving PPU | 18:17 |
| === noy_ is now known as noy | ||
| pitti | that was my impression, too | 18:17 |
| ScottK | Not a point worth spending a lot of time on then. | 18:17 |
| pitti | wendar: so, are you okay with adding ~ubuntu-dev membership as a requirement? | 18:17 |
| wendar | yup, reload the page | 18:17 |
| pitti | wendar: heh, says ~ubuntu-de | 18:17 |
| pitti | I'm afraid teaching everyone to speak German is a little too much effort | 18:18 |
| wendar | :) | 18:18 |
| wendar | edited again | 18:18 |
| pitti | thanks | 18:18 |
| pitti | #vote TB signoff of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Restaffing | 18:18 |
| meetingology | Please vote on: TB signoff of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Restaffing | 18:18 |
| meetingology | Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) | 18:18 |
| pitti | +1 | 18:18 |
| meetingology | +1 received from pitti | 18:18 |
| kees | +1 | 18:18 |
| meetingology | +1 received from kees | 18:18 |
| pitti | stgraber: ? | 18:19 |
| stgraber | +1 | 18:19 |
| meetingology | +1 received from stgraber | 18:19 |
| pitti | we only have bare minimum quorum today, but my feeling is that this is pretty unanimous | 18:20 |
| stgraber | (sorry, was looking through the list of ~ubuntumembers) | 18:20 |
| pitti | #endvote | 18:20 |
| meetingology | Voting ended on: TB signoff of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Restaffing | 18:20 |
| meetingology | Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 | 18:20 |
| meetingology | Motion carried | 18:20 |
| pitti | I'll reply on the TB list, and other TB members can then weigh in | 18:20 |
| pitti | wendar: thanks! | 18:20 |
| wendar | thanks all! | 18:21 |
| pitti | #topic next chair | 18:22 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: next chair | ||
| pitti | we usually follow alphabetically, which would be soren | 18:22 |
| kees | alphabetically? yup. | 18:22 |
| pitti | but as he hasn't been in any meeting yet, I propose that we skip him this time | 18:22 |
| kees | stgraber: ready to chair the next one? :) | 18:22 |
| stgraber | sure | 18:23 |
| pitti | stgraber: do you want to chair the next one? I can guide you to what to do after the meeting | 18:23 |
| stgraber | pitti: that'd be great | 18:23 |
| kees | heh | 18:23 |
| pitti | oh, these hundreds of hours on the typewriter and pasting stamps | 18:23 |
| pitti | #topic AOB | 18:23 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB | ||
| pitti | nothing else from me; stgraber, kees, wendar, ScottK? | 18:24 |
| ScottK | Nope. | 18:24 |
| stgraber | nope | 18:24 |
| wendar | nope | 18:24 |
| ScottK | Not unless you want an off the cuff sru exception request | 18:24 |
| ScottK | I'd like to keep uploading postifx bug fixes post-release, but didn't have time to prepare anything. | 18:24 |
| kees | pitti: nothing from me | 18:25 |
| ScottK | This is the upstream that says, "We don't have a bug tracker because we don't leave known issues unfixed." and does it. | 18:25 |
| pitti | ScottK: is there usually something in them which goes beyond a mere aggregation of individual "we want these" fixes? | 18:25 |
| pitti | #topic postgres SRUs | 18:26 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: postgres SRUs | ||
| pitti | erk | 18:26 |
| pitti | #topic postfix SRUs | 18:26 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: postfix SRUs | ||
| pitti | silly autofingers :) | 18:26 |
| ScottK | Yes. There's two primary upstream developers who have a strong vision for the product. | 18:26 |
| ScottK | Most bug reports turn into "Where in the documentation does it promise it's supposed to work that way?" | 18:26 |
| pitti | one thing that we need to fix there first are the eternal debconf questions on upgrade which potentially destroy your config (haven't checked, I always just say "no config") | 18:27 |
| ScottK | So it's very strongly spec'ed. | 18:27 |
| Daviey | Shouldn't lamont be in this discussion? | 18:27 |
| ScottK | lamont and I have discussed it. | 18:27 |
| ScottK | pitti: I don't recall those being an issue in a long time (I don't get the questions) | 18:27 |
| pitti | ScottK: so do you think the problem is that there are changes which are debatable, or that the problem is on the validation side? | 18:27 |
| === noy_ is now known as noy | ||
| pitti | ScottK: oh, wow; maybe I should file a bug then, I get them everytime | 18:28 |
| ScottK | Users have an expectation of how an MTA should work and they are often wrong. | 18:28 |
| ScottK | Post-release, postfix sticks to not changing functionality based on it's extensive documentation. | 18:29 |
| ScottK | They are very, very picky about it. | 18:29 |
| pitti | i. e. you want to establish a permanent microrelease exception for postfix? | 18:29 |
| ScottK | Yes. | 18:30 |
| ScottK | If they are happy with it, it is very safe for us. | 18:30 |
| lamont | I would support that | 18:30 |
| pitti | so I assume this is for not verifying all changes individually, but have a way to regression-test the entire update | 18:30 |
| ScottK | Upstream regression tests the upstream code before releasing. | 18:30 |
| pitti | kees: how much coverage does the qa-regression-test bzr have for postfix? | 18:31 |
| ScottK | I think we need to mostly make sure the packaging works and there's nothing major wrong. | 18:31 |
| kees | pitti: it's fair, let me double check | 18:31 |
| pitti | we still need some amount of testing the actually installed package, to guard against misbuilds, packaging errors, etc. | 18:31 |
| lamont | pitti: every regression I have seen in a micro-release update of postfix has been introduced by the debian/ubuntu packaging | 18:31 |
| ScottK | I've been backporting postfix for a long time and I've never had an issue. | 18:31 |
| pitti | lamont: yes, that's what I'm concerned about :) | 18:31 |
| lamont | ScottK: I've never had an issue with Wietse's work. my own is the only concern | 18:31 |
| pitti | we had the weirdest things in SRUs, no-change uploads breakign completely, and the like | 18:32 |
| ScottK | That's generally obvious in the normal level of SRU testing we do. | 18:32 |
| lamont | pitti: fwiw, that has usually been me adding in my own other bugfixes and getting it wrong | 18:32 |
| lamont | when I just grab the latest upstream and stuff, it's always been beauty | 18:32 |
| kees | pitti: mostly it tests authentication mechanisms and basic delivery/forwarding | 18:32 |
| ScottK | My view is that if that works, it's 99.9% good. | 18:32 |
| pitti | kees: qa-regression bzr is integration testing on the actually installed .debs, right? | 18:32 |
| kees | pitti: correct | 18:33 |
| pitti | kees: is there any existing wiki documentation how to run this? or do we need a special page for postfix? | 18:33 |
| kees | pitti: it expects packages to be installed, but does its own configuration manipulations to attempt various auth methods and delivery methods | 18:33 |
| pitti | if we could just link to it on the MRE page, that'd be good | 18:33 |
| kees | pitti: there is no general docs on running the tests, no, but there is a pretty common methodology to it, and each test is documented on how to run it in the header comments | 18:34 |
| ScottK | I've never had a problem figuring them out from the comments. | 18:34 |
| pitti | I'm using postfix both on server as well as on my workstations, and never really had a problem with it except those annoying debconf prompts, I'm fairly convinced of its quality | 18:34 |
| pitti | kees: right, I mostly mean where to get it, how to run it, etc. | 18:34 |
| pitti | as long as the proposer of the SRU (lamont/ScottK) know how to run it, it's fine for me | 18:34 |
| pitti | lamont, ScottK: ^ do you? | 18:35 |
| lamont | I know how to tell ScottK to run it. | 18:35 |
| kees | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bugcontrol/qa-regression-testing/master/view/head:/scripts/test-postfix.py | 18:35 |
| ScottK | I didn't run the postfix one before, but I run the clamav one all the time. | 18:35 |
| ScottK | I'm sure it's not an issue. | 18:35 |
| pitti | my gut feeling is that an MRE is fine, provided that validation entails running the upstream regression tests (which already is done by upstream), and the existing integration tests | 18:35 |
| pitti | lamont: delegation FTW! | 18:35 |
| lamont | pitti: to be fair, my normal approach to postfix is to take the latest upstream, build it, install it, send email, and upload. If I actually do any work, that's when I get all pedantic about testing it, ever since I broke it that one time | 18:36 |
| pitti | ScottK: is there a pending microrelease which we would SRU? | 18:36 |
| ScottK | yes. | 18:37 |
| ScottK | There's a backports request pending that we'd direct at -proposed instead. | 18:37 |
| pitti | so perhaps we could do this as a model case, see how much changes these carry, and how validation works, etc. | 18:37 |
| * kees nods | 18:37 | |
| stgraber | sounds good | 18:37 |
| pitti | but in general I'm fine with this proposal; upstream's stable policy and regression testing is certainly appropriate for our SRU criteria | 18:38 |
| ScottK | It would be -proposed for natty only. | 18:38 |
| ScottK | Lucid/Maverick released with 2.7, so those will still go to backports. | 18:38 |
| pitti | ah, no 2.7.x updates any more? | 18:38 |
| ScottK | There are some of those I'll need to go back and look at too. | 18:39 |
| pitti | then I'm even less concerned | 18:39 |
| pitti | most postfixes which really matter certainly run on LTSes | 18:39 |
| ScottK | No, we can do them too, just referring to the current backport request. | 18:39 |
| pitti | but doing this on natty now gives us a nice trial period for precise | 18:39 |
| ScottK | So we'd keep 2.7 up to date in -proposed for lucid and 2.8 in backports. | 18:39 |
| pitti | ScottK: can we try that SRU once, and when it's done, come back to TB and discuss the general MRE when we all have more experience how that worked? | 18:41 |
| ScottK | OK. | 18:41 |
| pitti | I'm sure it will be okay, but I'm a bit uncomfortable with saying "+1" before seeing it in action | 18:42 |
| pitti | might just be me being a wimp, of course | 18:42 |
| pitti | kees, stgraber: WDYT? | 18:42 |
| kees | right, I prefer SRU history, then MRE | 18:42 |
| pitti | I'm signing up for reviewing that SRU | 18:43 |
| kees | but this looks to be a good trajectory | 18:43 |
| ScottK | I'm fine with this. | 18:43 |
| pitti | nice | 18:43 |
| stgraber | trying with one SRU osunds good | 18:43 |
| stgraber | *sounds | 18:44 |
| pitti | #topic AOB | 18:44 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB | ||
| pitti | going once.. | 18:45 |
| pitti | going twice.. | 18:45 |
| pitti | sold! | 18:45 |
| pitti | thanks everyone, have a good night! | 18:45 |
| stgraber | thanks pitti! | 18:46 |
| pitti | will send notes / update report. etc. now | 18:46 |
| pitti | #endmeeting | 18:46 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ||
| meetingology | Meeting ended Thu Oct 6 18:46:12 2011 UTC. | 18:46 |
| meetingology | Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-06-18.04.moin.txt | 18:46 |
| pitti | wow, nice report | 18:46 |
| kees | thanks pitti! | 18:47 |
| === ayan_ is now known as ayan | ||
| === zz_bigbash is now known as bigbash | ||
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