[00:12] jbicha: ah [00:12] jbicha: just b/c of the packaging? [00:13] cyphermox: well, GDM is very Fedora-centric so it probably needs patching too [00:14] ok [00:14] GDM packaging scares me ;) [00:15] jbicha: hehe. not sure I want to jump into that either, I kinda like lightdm [00:16] but it would be nice to have the option (that works) in a PPA at least [00:47] jasoncwarner_, heh they say "this is the most important release in Ubuntu's history" every LTS ;-) [00:48] Well, it's true every LTS, really :) [00:48] bryceh: but this time we mean it ;) those other times? all marketing ! [00:48] Just like each new iPhone is ?the best iPhone yet? :) [00:49] RAOF: true :) best. release. ever. [00:49] at OSDL, "This is the most important quarter ever!" was an on-going joke [00:54] jasoncwarner_: Nice email nonetheless. [00:54] thanks, TheMuso [00:55] bryceh: usually they are...for the ceo ;) [00:55] having a too many bad quarters in a row isn't good for CEO and VP of Sales types ;) [00:55] turned out wasn't too good for OSDL either ;-) [00:56] bryceh: so it was the most important quarter ever ! [01:26] * desrt waits for the "this iphone isn't quite as good as the one before it, but we still think you should buy it" announcement [01:26] i'd settle for "it's about the same, really -- but we rather enjoy continuing to receive your cash" [01:26] Woah. Who did the minimise animation on the launcher? [01:27] Or: when did that minimise animation land? This is the first that I've noticed it! [01:32] RAOF: early last cycle [01:33] smspillaz: In Natty? Really? And it's taken me this long to notice it? [01:34] yep [01:34] RAOF: i havent noticed either if it makes you feel better [01:34] I clearly don't mimimise many windows :) [01:50] why do some bug reporters make it so hard to help them? [01:51] I'm guessing: because they have no idea how hard they make it to help them. [01:53] yep could be [04:55] Good morning === eeejay is now known as eeejay_is_afk [05:03] pitti, mom, is that you? *opens one eye* [05:03] :> [05:03] hey BigWhale [05:07] How's it going? [05:10] pretty ok, except for the cold I'm having [05:10] looking forward to the release :) [05:14] cold? yeah same here... and laryngitis... I sound like Darth Vader :> [05:15] * pitti hands BigWhale another cup of camomile tea [05:15] thanks :) [05:16] Are we all suffering from release stress, or something? [05:16] * RAOF nurses his tired, sore throat. [05:17] RAOF: I at least blame the autumn weather to some degree [05:17] over the weekend I often went out with a T-shirt, as it was some 25 degrees over the day; but in the morning/evening it was rather chilly [05:17] Weather here was awesome. We had an indian summer until today basically. Yesterday it was 27 C, today temperatures will plummet... 9 C :/ [05:18] True, mornings were a bit colder [05:20] Morning pitti. [05:20] Yeah Sydney has had its first remotely warm day for a while, and in good time too, being mid spring and all... [05:20] And we've had our week of low-grade drizzle. [05:24] good morning all [05:26] hey rickspencer3 [05:26] hey pitti, so just need new lang packs for the CDs today, right? [05:26] rickspencer3: right; I'm polling https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+language-packs [05:26] woohoo [05:26] oh, it landed [05:26] * pitti goes to build the packs [05:27] !!!! [05:28] RAOF, hey, I assigned what looks like an xorg bug to the desktop team last night [05:28] sg is having it [05:28] so I thought you might want to see the bug since there's someone with hardware who will help you debug and all [05:29] Ah, sweet. A debugging partner? Awesome. [05:30] rickspencer3: What was the bug? It doesn't seem to have filtered into my bugmail. [05:30] RAOF, hmm, I assigned it to canonical-desktop-team [05:30] I [05:30] can get the bug # a bit later [05:30] but I'm not at that particular 'puter atm [05:30] sorry [05:30] I'd guess it's bug #861426 [05:30] Launchpad bug 861426 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[Oneiric] [Regression] When disabling onboard LVDS display and just using external VGA screen corruption occurs" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861426 [05:32] Oh, cool. I've got a GM45 laptop, too. Potentially bugs in hardware *I own*! [05:35] RAOF, that's the one [05:35] RAOF, it seems that we are having a lot of issues with xorg and with unity for people who use external monitors a lot [05:36] let's get some testing in place for these situations really soon [05:36] catch these issues early and often [05:36] RAOF, and yeah, that's the bug ;) [05:37] I think part of the problem is that unity was plain broken on multiple monitors for so long. [05:37] I have that (external monitor, internal one xrandr'ed off0 [05:37] the only problem that I see is that on resume the screen is broken, I have to switch to VT1 and back to get it fixed [05:38] not sure if that is related to the bug; if it is, I'm a happy victim of logs/tests/etc. [05:38] broken> mostly black, just a short vertical bar of blinking pixels in the top left corner [05:39] OOooh, yeah. [05:48] rickspencer3: aha! there you are! [05:48] hi smspillaz [05:48] rickspencer3: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/869316 [05:48] Launchpad bug 869316 in unity "reproducible stacking bug in compiz" [High,Triaged] [05:48] that [05:48] yes? [05:48] I looked into it all morning, can't reproduce it [05:48] though, it's a little ambiguous [05:49] ambiguous? [05:49] yeah, so it says [05:49] "view the presentation" [05:49] then [05:49] "stop the recording" [05:49] do you close the presentation in between ? [05:50] or like, does the presentation view go away in between that [05:50] or do you have to switch to another window to make the panels appear on top and then stop the presentation [05:50] Bwah. Ok, it's another manifestation of "gnome-desktop does RANDR changes just differently enough from the xrandr tool that it breaks". Joy! [05:51] (I tried tons of combinations btw, but couldn't find anything to reproduce it :( even using the package version [05:51] rickspencer3: what other stuff do you have open while you get this bug? is it *just* LO impress and gtk-rmd or do you have other stuff open too ? [05:51] smspillaz, I wrote the repro steps out [05:52] I know [05:52] followed them step by step, cant reproduce it [05:52] I may have other apps opened [05:52] so there's something else that you've got [05:52] ok [05:52] what other apps ? [05:52] I dunni [05:52] xchat-gnome [05:52] smspillaz, maybe you can ask other people to try to repro it? [05:52] ... can you try and reproduce it again and then tell me what stuff you have open when it happens ? [05:52] rickspencer3: so far only you can jane can get it [05:53] someone else repros it? [05:53] are you saying Jane gets it too? [05:53] and remote debugging especially for these kinds of things (which are insanely complicated) is pretty much impossible. So I need a way to rreproduce it myself [05:53] rickspencer3: neil told me that jane did [05:53] great [05:53] rickspencer3: anyways, try and reproduce it again [05:53] she's presenting today at a huge conference [05:53] and tell me what stuff I have open [05:53] :/ [05:53] and please don't tell me things to raise my blood pressure :) [05:54] RAOF, can you help sg with a workaround? [05:54] Yeah, I'm following up on the bug. [05:54] sweetness [05:54] RAOF, is there an SRUable fix? [05:55] Not as of this moment, no. [05:55] shucks [05:55] rickspencer3: these bugs are insanely complicated and usually a result of applications misbehaving (libreoffice is a serial offender in this category), so please have patience :) [05:55] anyways [05:55] next time you reproduce it, please let me know what stuff you have open [05:55] (or try and reproduce it right now) [05:56] rickspencer3: But! Given that it looks like a gnome-desktop problem, it's much more likely to be SRUable than, say, a kernel problem :) [05:58] we can SRU kernels! [05:58] smspillaz, I have this crazy "Director" job that keeps interfering with my "debug unity" job ;) [05:59] I'll try to get to that later today [05:59] But SRUing a kernel is a significantly more involved undertaking with significantly higher risks than twiddling gnome-desktop code :) [06:01] why is it that only people who are directors can reproduce unity bugs :( [06:01] RAOF: can you reproduce this bug ? [06:01] RAOF: it's basically something like [06:02] open a presentation, open gtk-r-m-d, view presentation, alt-tab to gtk-r-m-d, exit presentation, stop recording, yay your stacking is stuffed! [06:02] except that the last part doesn''t happen for me [06:02] good morning [06:03] didrocks: ^ and good morning (can you reproduce that ?) [06:03] smspillaz: wait, I'm first backporting fixes to unity :) [06:03] heh, ok [06:04] That's gtk record-my-desktop, right? [06:13] RAOF, yes [06:13] smspillaz: please, think to change upstream bug status when merging [06:13] RAOF, thanks for working on sg's but [06:14] RAOF, could you please make your directions just a bit more explicit for him? [06:14] like, should he run that command before disconnecting, etc... [06:15] Before disconnecting? There's no disconnecting anywhere in the process, is there? Anyway, I'll try to reword that to be more obvious. [06:15] didrocks: sure [06:15] smspillaz: well, please ensure about "sure", it's the 3rd time of the week I'm asking you that :) [06:15] right, I usually do them all at once [06:16] just haven't gotten around to updating all the bugs yet as not all merges are complete [06:16] RAOF, sorry, I thought that was his issue [06:16] smspillaz: as the merge is manual, please just do it in the merge as I've asked in the numerous emails and pings on IRC :) [06:17] you can do it in the merge ? [06:17] as in, there is a way to automatically update the bug status whenever a merge happens ? [06:18] smspillaz: no, do it *when* you merge, you have the bug linked on your merge page, just click on it [06:18] ah, right [06:18] smspillaz: isn't what you asked me already… yesterday… and where I told you "no"? :p [06:18] smspillaz: Yes. When you commit, add --fixes=lp:BUGNUMBER. [06:18] RAOF: doesn't work, no matter what people tell me :( [06:18] Bah, yes, you're right. [06:18] :( [06:18] It does generate bugmail, though. [06:19] * smspillaz wonders if its possible to make a launchpad hook to do that [06:19] RAOF, never mind [06:19] I'm a dope [06:20] * didrocks just spent 5 minutes to change 10 bugs status from dx for the latest fixes [06:20] retarget to right components [06:23] didrocks: isn't there a script that retargets the upstream projects to the downstream ones ? [06:24] well, I guess unify only works for milestone releases [06:26] smspillaz: no, it works for everything, but if you open a wrong component [06:26] like nux [06:26] my script can't know that the bug is in unity [06:26] it will affect unity and nux [06:26] so ensuring I don't have to dig and run after you guys, please, take this small 30s to make things rigorously ok [06:30] ok[A [06:31] didrocks: rickspencer3: I need to run out for a bit, let me know if you can reproduce that stacking bug and when you do, please give the me the output of xwininfo -root -tree and also a list of what applications you've got open [06:31] smspillaz, I updated my repro bug with more specific steps [06:31] it happens with only impress and gtk-rmd open [06:31] ok, thanks [06:32] didrocks, I guess you are preparing a Unity zero day SRU? [06:32] rickspencer3: I'm preparing an upload right now rather [06:32] rickspencer3: so to clarify, if you *only* had gtk-rmd and impress open, you'd get the bug ? [06:32] rickspencer3: still time as langpacks are still building [06:33] smspillaz, yes [06:33] didrocks, wait, I'm confused [06:33] rickspencer3: thanks [06:33] I thought we were done updating the CD [06:33] except for the lang packs [06:33] and everything else was for SRUing/updates [06:33] rickspencer3: I'm waiting for pitti, there is a huge crasher fix there [06:33] ahh you're switching to another workspace! [06:33] critical part [06:33] rickspencer3: yesterday, we still had some nice fixes [06:33] pitti, ??? ^ [06:33] ok, lets try that [06:34] didrocks: what? [06:34] didrocks, but every upload brings a risk of regressions [06:34] rickspencer3: right, that's why I'm dogfooding it [06:34] didrocks: sorry, I'm not aware of a question from you [06:34] pitti, question is from me [06:34] I thought we were done changing the CD [06:34] and I think didrocks is saying that he's about to upload changes [06:35] well, as you say, any upload that we do now must be 100% regression safe [06:35] pitti: there can be a nice unity upload coming, I'm currently testing it there, it fixes a bunch of stuff, and 3 starred crashes [06:35] that's why I'm testing it a lot before pushing [06:35] fixing two crashers with obvious two-liners is fine; 30 kB diffs are not any more [06:35] pitti: I can spunge to only have one fix then [06:36] pitti: it's one line [06:36] this one get 4 duplicates an hours [06:36] hour* [06:37] *sigh* [06:37] it was a bug that fix considered as "fixed", but it wasn't… [06:38] didrocks, so, in other words [06:38] an upload that caused a regression? [06:38] that's why we need to be hyper cautious now [06:38] throwing in more fixes to fix broken fixes just gets us on a crazy treadmill [06:38] rickspencer3: no [06:38] rickspencer3: in other word [06:39] "a bug that dx think to have fixed with some code, but they didn't" [06:39] so had to stop apport duplicating to a fix released bug to get a new stacktrace [06:39] didrocks: yeah, this kind of bug/fix is welcome at this point :) [06:39] didrocks: 4 dupes an hour? nobody wrote a bug pattern yet? [06:39] didrocks: want me to write one? [06:40] pitti: well, it's dispatched in 3 bugs, I didn't check since yesterday evening if we have a bup pattern, will do it in a few [06:41] rickspencer3: no need to tell me that every upload is a regression risk. I think I already demonstrated that I clearly know that :) [06:41] lol [06:42] didrocks, sorry man [06:42] I'm just not feeling like we have the same level of careful control about changes at this point that we usually do [06:42] maybe it's just because I'm not tacking it like I used to [06:42] sorry I'm maybe doing a bad job then… [06:42] but when I ask "are we done making changes?" I get different answers from different people [06:42] didrocks, no, it's not you, c'mon [06:42] rickspencer3: still can't reproduce it :( [06:42] don't be that way [06:43] I wouldn't be doing my job if I wasn't asking questions === jibel_ is now known as jibel [06:43] rickspencer3: we need longer cycles :) [06:43] smspillaz, I don't know what else to say [06:43] but anyways, I won't continue that discussion [06:43] rickspencer3: hmm ok. I'll try opening some other stuff up as well [06:43] smspillaz, please [06:45] rickspencer3: what stuff do you usually have open, xchat, chromium ? [06:46] smspillaz, firefox, thunderbird, xchat [06:46] but none of them were opened when I just reproed it [06:46] ok [06:46] * smspillaz compiles the package verison again just to check [06:47] kinda frustrating when I can't reproduce these bugs, heh [06:48] yay reproduced it [06:48] finally [06:49] rickspencer3: ok, I'm going to go down to the shops to get some mountain dew then kill this bug [06:51] Reproduced here, too. [06:51] Heh, just in time. [06:51] :/ [07:00] I use bzr-builddeb for almost all of my building, what am I supposed to do when upstream only ships .tar.xz? [07:01] rebuild as .tar.bz2? [07:02] since bzr-builddeb doesn't support xz, perhaps waiting on pristine-tar [07:02] jbicha: do it the old way? [07:03] Does bzr-builddeb not handle that? Does it require things to be pristine-tarrable? [07:04] jbicha: better question, what's Debian doing? [07:05] well, for GNOME, they still use svn and they've got a patch now for svn-buildpackage http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=637900 [07:05] Debian bug 637900 in svn-buildpackage "Does not support .xz tarballs." [Normal,Open] [07:06] micahg: I don't think I ever used the old way [07:07] UDD's been around for too long or I'm too young or something... :) [07:07] jbicha: well, is this something that we'll be maintaining a diff for? [07:07] s/diff/packaging branch/ [07:08] micahg: probably not, I was trying to package shared-color-targets to fix bug 643168 [07:08] Launchpad bug 643168 in gnome-color-manager "gcm-prefs tries to install nonexistent shared-color-targets" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/643168 [07:09] jbicha: unless you're trying to cram that into oneiric, maybe do that in svn w/Debian? [07:10] well it's a bit broken with out it and for some reason policy is we don't backport new packages, so I would like to cram it in [07:11] jbicha: define "backport new packages" [07:12] a source package not in Oneiric on the release date won't be allowed into oneiric-backports, right? [07:13] Yes, of course it will. [07:13] Well, could be. [07:13] jbicha: not true, that's one of the functions of backports [07:13] * ajmitch thought that backports would explicitly allow new packages [07:13] if there's policy that says otherwise it should be changed to reflect reality [07:13] jbicha: the only reason it wouldn't be allowed is if it would break other stuff [07:14] yes, correct [07:14] oh I misread the policy, it just needs to be in P first, which I knew [07:14] any application package in precise can be backported, provided it doesn't break anything else [07:14] which reminds me, oneiric-backports needs to be created in LP [07:14] * RAOF wonders why gnome-settings-daemon thinks setting mode=0x0 ot the output I *didn't* turn off will make me happy. [07:15] there was a proposal to open oneiric-backports for new source uploads that would be copied to precise upon the archive opening, I think [07:15] not sure if that went anywhere [07:15] RAOF: some people are happier about black screens? no confusing screen contents to worry about [07:15] any pointers on how to build stuff the old way then? [07:16] RAOF: would you be an appropriate assignee for bug 828623? [07:16] Launchpad bug 828623 in gnome-control-center "[Regression] gnome control centre does not allow you to disable the laptop screen while leaving an external DisplayPort connected screen working" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/828623 [07:16] jbicha: what is "the old way"? [07:16] pitti: the before time, pre-uDD [07:17] RAOF: your own fault -- you earned too many good credentials wrt. libgnome-desktop :) [07:17] jbicha: apt-get source, change stuff, debuild -S, run debdiff against the old and new .dsc to check? [07:17] pitti: Oh! I'm accidentally already working on that one ) [07:17] :) [07:18] jbicha: there are some extra tools available like "uupdate" and "uscan" which you should know about [07:18] RAOF: nice [07:18] While looking at bug 861426 [07:18] Launchpad bug 861426 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[Oneiric] [Regression] When disabling onboard LVDS display and just using external VGA screen corruption occurs" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861426 [07:18] RAOF: it seemed related, but quite the opposite of "my screen unexpectedly goes black" [07:19] but it's certainly the same code area, that's why I was thinking of you [07:20] ok, I guess I was just confused then [07:22] Say, are there any desktop people who either have ARM hardware or know how to run qemu who would like to take a hail mary pass at trying to figure out why banshee doesn't work on armel? [07:23] My experience with debugging under qemu is "don't", sadly. [07:23] gdb won't work (and, from memory, isn't expected to) [07:24] I would love to figure out what's happening, though. [07:24] It should work in a full qemu-system-arm, but I wouldn't expect it to work well in a qemu-user-static chroot, no. [07:24] didrocks: thanks for the unity fix, it's in now [07:24] There's no functional difference between a vexpress qemu-system-arm and real hardware, except that qemu's slower. :/ [07:24] pitti: \o/ thanks [07:25] vexpress? [07:25] But yeah. We'll be poking at banshee, but we've mostly given up for oneiric and already changed our seeds to use rhythmbox instead. I'd still love to switch back if someone found the bug. [07:25] RAOF: One of the system options. We build a vexpress kernel specifically for booting that qemu system. [07:26] (vexpress is an ARM reference platform) [07:26] How would one install such a VM? [07:26] That, I'm too tired to walk someone through. We must have wiki docs for it somewhere, though. One would hope. [07:27] pitti: do you fell better than yesterday or still have a cold? [07:27] didrocks: both :) [07:27] feel* [07:27] RAOF: perhaps something like https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/QemuNetInstall with some s/versatile/vexpress/ where it might make sense. [07:28] didrocks: it's usually okay in the mornings, but I tend to get a bit dizzy and heavy-headed in the evenings [07:28] RAOF: But it's bedtime here, so I can't really help much. I can in the morning, if you're keen on helping debug. [07:28] pitti: urgh, take care! do you take any medecine? [07:29] chicken soup and a decongestant during the nights, that's all I need :) [07:29] heh :) [07:29] infinity: That looks sufficiently easy. [07:29] I'm not a big fan of taking Aspirine, I'll let my immune system do what it thinks is right.. [07:31] RAOF: Assuming it works, yeah. Those instructions are rather old. ;) [07:31] RAOF: But poke me in /msg if you have troubles, I'll be around in ~7.5 hours again. :) === tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter [07:39] morning [07:39] hey rodrigo_ [07:39] bonjour didrocks [07:39] good morning rodrigo_ [07:39] hi pitti [07:40] ah, my fresh langpacks just finished building [07:40] anyone who wants to test some? [07:40] I usually locally build German and French, but can also do the Spanish ones (*hint* *hint*) [07:42] pitti, what needs to be done for testing? [07:43] rodrigo_: installing them, rebooting, checking that nothign looks strange [07:43] rodrigo_: in particular, we test whether update-manager and firefox work [07:43] opening evolution and checking that it's translated also can't hurt [07:43] ok, I can have a try [07:46] pitti, they will be available for upgrade in a bit, right? [07:46] rodrigo_: yes, but I usually test them before I upload themn [07:46] ah, so where can I get them? [07:46] ... in a second [07:48] rodrigo_: oh, and translated unity/gnome help [07:48] ok [07:49] pitti: can test French if you want :) [07:49] scp is squeezing them through my thin upstream :) [07:50] did the new ubuntu-docs make it into this langpack update? [07:50] looks like it [07:50] hey jbicha [07:51] didrocks: howdy [07:51] didrocks, rodrigo_: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/tmp/lp/ [07:52] people decided to send me sushi bugs for some reason ;-) [07:52] jbicha: hm, help isn't translated [07:52] jbicha: ahah, you touched it! too late :) [07:53] pitti: oneiric-changes says new ubuntu-docs landed at 04:57:17 UTC yesterday, too late then? [07:53] jbicha: hm, so the old ubuntu-docs stuff is gone [07:53] jbicha: but no new ubuntu-docs translations there [07:53] jbicha: maybe [07:54] * didrocks reboots [07:54] jbicha: I'll check, it shoudl be static translations, not gettext [07:54] rebooting as well, to cover the other bits [07:57] pitti, ok [07:57] jbicha, :) [08:00] the rest looks fine for German, I'll investigate ubuntu-docs [08:01] hey [08:01] hey pitti, didrocks [08:01] bonjour seb128 [08:01] salut seb128 [08:01] how are you? [08:02] seb128: I'm fine, thanks, you? [08:02] I think I'm fine, well confirm after some coffee ;-) [08:02] good morning desktop people [08:02] :-) [08:02] hey dpm [08:03] good morning dpm [08:03] hey didrocks, happy Friday :) [08:03] dpm: seems someone copied the lucid and natty PPA langpacks to -proposed then? [08:04] dpm: heh, happy friday too :) [08:04] dpm: I'm currently building oneiric langpacks, will accept the stable ones after that, to not block the buildds too much [08:04] hey dpm [08:04] brb [08:04] pitti, ah, hadn't noticed about the lucid + natty langpacks [08:04] hey seb128 :) [08:05] dpm: oh, who requested that then? [08:05] hi seb128, dpm [08:06] hey rodrigo_ [08:06] pitti, hmm, I don't have any langpack-* package installed on my system [08:06] pitti, perhaps TLE? He was helping with languagepack updates, but I would have thought he'd talk to you or me to request a copy to -proposed [08:06] rodrigo_: language-pack-* [08:06] right [08:06] pitti: all looks good here with popular apps, apart from the help guide not being translated [08:06] sorry :) [08:06] rodrigo_: great, thanks for testing [08:06] ok, rebooting to test them [08:08] Hm. So, in summary: (1) gnome-rr-config does a substantial amount of unnecessary work on modeswitch and (2) gets it wrong. [08:09] pitti, I'm glad to hear the oneiric langpacks were exported and built fine, I'm testing the Catalan ones right now, and one thing I've noticed is that some translations done before the export time don't seem to have made it into the langpacks. Can't say much about the docs, as this release we didn't have the chance to translate them [08:09] seb128: seems that even nautilus-open-terminal rebuild, nautilus still crashes [08:09] didrocks, ok, we should perhaps conflict on it? [08:09] dpm: ubuntu-docs is missing, investigating right now [08:09] didrocks, something seem to not like the mix of gsettings and gconf or something [08:10]