[05:19] <NRWlion> morning
[05:47] <YoBoY> bonjour
[10:51] <akgraner> hi all - sorry I haven't been around much these last few days
[10:51] <akgraner> kids schedules are nuts at the moment
[10:52] <knome> schedules made of nuts? tasty!
[12:37] <Cheesehead> kome: +1
[13:05] <akgraner> :-)
[13:05] <akgraner> CC elections are under way - Just updated my WIki page :-)
[13:06] <akgraner> this is kinda exciting
[13:22] <YoBoY> I already voted :)
[13:35] <akgraner> YoBoY, yay!  Thanks for taking the time to do so :-)
[13:36] <akgraner> I forgot to update my wiki so I just did that then voted :-)
[13:45] <Cheesehead> charlie-tca: When you have time, are you now able to log into Brainstorm?
[13:46] <Cheesehead> I have that checked off my list as done, but not confirmed
[13:47] <charlie-tca> I haven't tried. I got a message from Nicolas asking if I am using brainstorm to login, which seemed ridiculous, since your message said I could not even log in to brainstorm.
[13:48] <charlie-tca> I haven't answered him yet
[13:48] <Cheesehead> I defer to nand on technical issues. If there was a discrepancy, he was probably correct.
[13:50] <Cheesehead> During the final days before release, I certainly understand why this would be a quite low-priority issue for you!
[14:05] <akgraner> Cheesehead, it's nice to see the TB is still reviewing the top Brainstorm ideas for each month
[14:06] <akgraner> and that developers are looking at those ideas :-)
[14:06] <akgraner> cprofitt, good luck!
[14:06] <cprofitt> thanks
[14:06] <cprofitt> you as well
[14:06] <akgraner> thanks :-)
[14:08] <Cheesehead> akgraner: Well, I did need to poke them...and only five of the ten got responded to...and they missed one whole cycle back in June. But (laughs) I doubt I could do any bettere, so *yes, I am happy about it*
[14:08] <akgraner> we pull the top 1-5 each week just to highlight those ideas
[14:08] <akgraner> we=UWN
[14:09] <Cheesehead> I was so happy the week there were none to pull. We changed the moderation to weed out a bunch of stuff specifically to make the TBs job easier and get better-quality ideas through to them.
[14:10] <Cheesehead> (Success)
[14:10] <Cheesehead> That's why I'm still happy with 5/10. They are *good* ideas for the most part
[14:10] <Cheesehead> Instead of bugs
[16:22] <NRWlion> hey there
[16:22] <NRWlion> Cheesehead: ping
[16:23] <akgraner> Cheesehead, yay!
[16:23] <NRWlion> akgraner: afternoon from rainy germany
[16:23] <NRWlion> :D
[16:24] <NRWlion> had any chance working my article (which isnt acceptable i know already ;) )
[16:25] <akgraner> NRWlion, I'm sorry I should have gotten back to you  sooner
[16:25] <akgraner> I like your article
[16:25] <akgraner> Are you submitting it in German or English?
[16:26] <akgraner> I think you have some great points
[16:26] <akgraner> I'll add some comments for you...
[16:26] <akgraner> working on an Ada Lovelace post right this second though
[16:26] <Cheesehead> NRWlion: pong. One moment, let me PM you here...
[16:26] <akgraner> today is Ada Lovelace Day   - http://findingada.com/
[16:27] <NRWlion> Cheesehead: feel free
[16:27] <NRWlion> a see ^^
[16:28] <NRWlion> akgraner: i just wrote down my thoughts as my "experience" reaches back for 2 - 4 years now
[16:29] <NRWlion> have had a read about many academic literatures and thought it might be a good way to point it out =(
[16:30] <akgraner> NRWlion, your thoughts are really good
[16:31] <NRWlion> akgraner: tell it to cheese and Darkwing ;)
[16:31] <NRWlion> cprofitt: hey there
[16:31] <NRWlion> cprofitt: could you spare a moment for pm?
[16:32] <cprofitt> sure
[16:32] <Cheesehead> NRWlion: I agree with akgraner. Your thoughts are really good. I normally question assumptions and pick around the edges...from me, that's the sign of a sound idea. I kick it a little to se how it wobbles.
[16:33]  * Cheesehead steps out a moment to help eldest daughter paint a halloween costume
[16:33] <NRWlion> Cheesehead: see you in a bit. going for a championship game tonight
[16:37] <NRWlion> akgraner: btw i have no place where to submit it ... =(
[16:38] <NRWlion> akgraner: you ensured me a testimonial the day before yesterday ... havent seen it yet on my list
[17:20] <ashams> Guys, would you please help me to settle a date for Ubuntu Community Appreciation Day!: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UCADay
[17:20] <ashams> ?
[17:21] <ashams> what you think should it be once or twice a year or free at any time?
[17:24] <akgraner> once a year...
[17:24] <akgraner> there are so many other ubuntu days weeks etc
[17:25] <ashams> yeah, i prefer this too
[17:25] <charlie-tca> We have more than enough things that happen every 6 months, tied to the release cycles
[17:25] <ashams> but what about the date?
[17:25] <ashams> 17 sept, 20 oct ?
[17:25] <akgraner> one sec
[17:25] <charlie-tca> November is pretty open after the first week
[17:25] <ashams> charlie-tca: that's a new nomination then :)
[17:26] <charlie-tca> October is full of Ubuntu User Week, Ubuntu DeveloperWeek, Ubuntu apps developer week, etc
[17:26] <charlie-tca> also getting ready for UDS, and planning stuff for the next release
[17:27] <ashams> when will be the uds?
[17:27] <charlie-tca> What do we do in November besides a week for UDS?
[17:27] <ashams> aha
[17:27] <charlie-tca> First week of November
[17:28] <ashams> we need to set a date just to avoid that ppl will get confused
[17:28] <ashams> we want them to wait for it every year
[17:28] <ashams> like a feast
[17:29] <Cheesehead> ...or tax filings.
[17:29]  * Cheesehead is embarrassed he said that out loud. He meant to stay quiet. Apologies
[17:29] <ashams> :D oh i forgot about that
[17:30] <ashams> Cheesehead: is welcome anytime anywhere :)
[17:30] <charlie-tca> I would hope we look at the busiest months and avoid them for anything else we can. We have two or three months a year right now that are super busy.
[17:31] <ashams> you mean, sept, oct & nov, right?
[17:32] <YoBoY> avoid september, october, november, march, april and may
[17:32] <charlie-tca> Thank you, YoBoY
[17:33] <charlie-tca> ashams: releases cycles happen two times a year, thus so does almost everything else.
[17:34] <akgraner> august is our b/c of vacations etc
[17:34] <akgraner> out
[17:34] <charlie-tca> two months of setting up the new release, two months of final release, two times for each week of sessions in classroom
[17:35] <akgraner> I like November - 3rd or 4th week
[17:35] <charlie-tca> Me too
[17:35] <ashams> but shouldn't be somehow related to something in Ubuntu history?
[17:35] <charlie-tca> We need a week after UDS to rest, and then everyone is around again hitting the new release.
[17:36] <akgraner> I help moderate all these weeks in as part of backstage - so does pleia2 and nigelb and cjohnston etc
[17:36] <akgraner> and Pendulum and others
[17:36] <charlie-tca> yup
[17:36] <charlie-tca> and the more that gets piled into those few weeks/months of activity, the less response you get
[17:36] <akgraner> charlie-tca, +1 a week to deal with UDS "hangovers" and get some rest
[17:38] <charlie-tca> ashams: the very first release was 4.10, which released in October, so the next release started in November. That is a tie in
[17:39] <YoBoY> i exclude november beacause of the after uds break and the thanlsgiving preparation and the release parties in progress everywhere
[17:39] <charlie-tca> 5.04 was considered the first "everyone can use this" release, wasn't it?
[17:40] <ashams> charlie-tca: nice, warty was released on oct 20th, can we just take a month after?
[17:41] <charlie-tca> If I have this all screwed up, feel free to say so, but I think the more that gets piled into the same times, the less response you will see.
[17:41] <charlie-tca> ashams: sounds like a good plan to me
[17:41] <akgraner> +1 from me
[17:42] <charlie-tca> and, yes, it might catch some flak because of the American Thanksgiving holiday that will fall close to that some years.
[17:43] <ashams> great, i love that
[17:43] <ashams> so, can someone help me by entering it into the fridge
[17:43] <akgraner> sure...I can do that
[17:43] <ashams> akgraner: what does it need to be announced on UWN
[17:43] <ashams> thanks
[17:44] <akgraner> Just blog about it and point me to the link
[17:45] <ashams> great, will do it very soon, thanks
[17:45] <akgraner> Once you blog about the details  - I'll add it to the fridge and link your post and wiki page in the event details sections
[17:46] <charlie-tca> Would have been nice if they planned everything from the start, but it really happened kind of by guessing a lot until now
[17:47] <ashams> charlie-tca: there's not much to plan again, in fact the date was the most important point
[17:48] <charlie-tca> Great! Glad you got one, then
[17:48] <akgraner> charlie-tca, which "they" and what "everything"  You confused me?  (which is easy to do - heck I confuse me some days)
[17:49] <ashams> haha :)
[17:50] <charlie-tca> "they" who started way back in 2004 who never actually planned much until they got together at a date determined a month prior to plan the next release
[17:51] <ashams> Now clear
[17:51] <charlie-tca> All of us who started after that first release knew UDS would be two times a year, but never knew when until about a month before it happened
[17:51] <charlie-tca> We used to plan things as "between 4 and 7 months after the last one"
[17:54] <ashams> Thank you all, akgraner charlie-tca YoBoY Cheesehead and ashams, that's the UCADay soul :)
[17:54] <charlie-tca> You're welcome
[17:54] <YoBoY> yw :)
[17:55] <charlie-tca> I really thank akgraner for the much more definite scheduling now. You can pretty much plan things these days.
[18:08] <akgraner> charlie-tca, I just become a pain about the calendar :-)
[18:08] <akgraner> speaking of events
[18:09] <akgraner> does anyone here want to give a session for open week?
[18:13] <YoBoY> not me, sorry
[18:32] <Cheesehead> I never know what session to do, I always waver between "They won't want to know that" and "Everybody already knows that".
[18:33] <Cheesehead> So I stick to small-group discussions, mostinly in the LoCo.
[18:34]  * Cheesehead has decided to create the word "mostinly" and adds a dictionary entry
[18:34] <akgraner> hahaha
[18:35] <philipballew> hey akgraner when is a good time to go over the spreadsheet with you?
[18:37] <akgraner> um good question
[18:37] <akgraner> Can we shoot for Tuesday
[18:38] <akgraner> I'll be at a Band Competition most of the day tomorrow, Sunday I'll be out and Monday my kids are out of school so it will be limited time on my computer
[18:40] <philipballew> alright. I need to find a good day off school. I get off work Tuesday at 5. Band. Nice. I remember when I was a few years younger my parents would spend all day or some Saturdays going to school events to watch me and my brother.
[18:40] <akgraner> I was a band geek myself - so now I am a crazy band parent
[18:41] <akgraner> who is of course in charge of our band boosters
[18:43]  * Cheesehead gets out his clipboard
[18:43] <philipballew> nice! i play the drums. thats about it. what interments do they play?
[18:45] <akgraner> My daughter is in colorguard - but plays guitar and sings
[18:45] <akgraner> my son plays trombone..
[18:47] <Darkwing> Hmmz, This isn't good.
[18:48] <philipballew> whats wrong Darkwing
[18:49] <Darkwing> I changed my primary email two days ago and it finally stopped sending to old email address this morning... But it totally stopped. It's not sending to the new email address.
[18:49] <akgraner> Darkwing, what's wrong
[18:49] <akgraner> oh
[18:49] <akgraner> rut roh
[18:53]  * Cheesehead gets out his clipboard again
[18:53] <Cheesehead> Time for me to get serious about recriting trainers and assistants for the IRC workshops.
[18:54] <Cheesehead> If anyone has a suggestion for a skill not on the list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLeadership/Projects#Skill_and_Trainer_List, please let me know. This is just the beginning (one hopes).
[18:54] <Cheesehead> Skill: Understanding the three languages people use to communicate: Feeling/Power/Meaning
[18:54] <Cheesehead> Valorie: Interested perhaps in facilitating ^ ?
[18:54] <Cheesehead> Or can anyone recommend a good facilitator for the topic?
[18:54] <Cheesehead> If you're generally interested in the topic and willing to help (a good shill is a treasure!), sign up as a Volunteer.
[18:54] <Cheesehead> Er, Assistant
[18:55] <Darkwing> If my email isn't turned back on in a couple hours... I'm not goign to be happy.
[18:56] <Cheesehead> Darkwing: let the Duck loose to cause mayhem again!
[18:58]  * Cheesehead plans to ask DarwinSurvivor to facilitate the Project Management tools session
[18:59] <Cheesehead> There we go. I'll work a couple today, a couple tomorrow. See if I can get a plan and scheule in place well ahead of target.
[18:59]  * Cheesehead puts the clipboard away
[19:00] <akgraner> remember openweek starts in less than 10 days...can you talk to some folks about giving sessions there too  - just have them ping me or jcastro
[19:00] <akgraner> I'll be back in about an hour - kid time...
[19:00] <akgraner> I'm a taxi for  few
[19:02] <philipballew> have fun! :)
[19:11]  * YoBoY have volunteers to recruit for November 
[19:22] <Cheesehead> Huh. The Open Week schedule does still seem a bit sprse. I will happily fill some of the void if needed. A topic, however, eludes me at the moment.
[19:26] <Cheesehead> And that's kind of important!
[19:31] <Cheesehead> Everybody Loves Simutrans? No, that's silly. Not everybody does.
[20:13] <NRWlion> re
[20:13] <akgraner> Cheesehead, what about brainstorm
[20:13] <akgraner> we haven't had a brainstorm session on the agenda in a while
[20:13] <akgraner> I am sure some new users have never even been to the site and don't know how it can benefit them
[20:14] <NRWlion> a) what agenda , b) what time and c) am i needed for that?
[20:15] <akgraner> NRWlion, I think they discussing Cheesehead leaderhip training stuff - but I'm trying to talk Cheesehead into giving a Brainstorm session for Open Week
[20:17] <NRWlion> kk
[20:20] <NRWlion> akgraner: maybe you and Cheesehead should have a talk about what Cheesehead and i developed earlier
[20:21] <akgraner> well you and Cheesehead could - NRWlion since it was what you all worked on..:-)
[20:21] <akgraner> I usually don't give sessions during those weeks b/c I help behind the scenes
[20:21] <valorie> I'll look at the dates and my calendar
[20:21] <valorie> right now, plate is full
[20:22] <akgraner> valorie, thank you - I am sure you have a dozen things you could talk about
[20:22] <akgraner> check out openweek - time slipped away from so we'll be scrambling last minute to get some session leaders in
[20:22] <akgraner> valorie, I understand that - you are a busy lady!
[20:23] <valorie> indeed, but I'm headed to the Googleplex for Doc Camp and the Mentor Summit
[20:23] <akgraner> Yeah - I joked with a couple google people about teaching a trolling session
[20:23] <akgraner> how to spot nice trolls
[20:23] <valorie> won't be at UDS, so not quite so busy that week -- although staying current via IRC and streaming is rather ....
[20:23] <akgraner> and how to troll a troll etc
[20:24] <valorie> my favorite topic so far is the session I did on the Zen of Conflict
[20:24] <akgraner> you know stuff from my "Country fried trolling" talk
[20:24] <valorie> everyone is so afraid of it
[20:24] <akgraner> conflict handled correctly brings about amazing things
[20:25] <akgraner> but yeah I know - "conflict" is not generally thought of as something postitive
[20:27] <NRWlion> akgraner: do you have a mail adress for me? then i could send you the stuff if Cheesehead agrees?
[20:28] <akgraner> sure...akgraner@ubuntu.com
[20:30] <NRWlion> Cheesehead: are you fine with that?
[20:36] <valorie> once people realize that it's energy, I think it gets a bit less scary
[20:37]  * Cheesehead sees his name and scrolls back...
[20:38] <NRWlion> Cheesehead: i just asked if you give permission for me to send akgraner a mail with our conversation
[20:40] <Cheesehead> akgraner: I can do Brainstorm for Open Week....As long as it's known in advance that the old expectaions of Brainstorm bringing world peace through community voting are a daydream...and I'm the wake-up call.
[20:41] <akgraner> :-)
[20:41] <akgraner> I just wanted you to let people know the ends and outs and encourage them to use it :-)
[20:41] <Cheesehead> Certainly.
[20:41] <akgraner> I've seen people putting in ideas that should be bugs and bugs that should be brainstorm ideas recently
[20:41] <akgraner> and a little of both on Ask Ubuntu
[20:42] <Cheesehead> NRWlion: Feel free to share our conversation. Nothing private there.
[20:42] <akgraner> so I thought it might be a good opportunity to go over brainstorm and set some expectations etc
[20:42] <akgraner> and encourage more people to get involved
[20:42] <NRWlion> Cheesehead: copy that ... akgraner will let you have a read on the logs of the brainstorm session between cheese and me
[20:43] <Cheesehead> akgraner: It always rains bugs in Brainstorm. We have lots of new-user input, we need more old hands to point out that foo was already tried.
[20:43] <akgraner> NRWlion, great - thank you...
[20:43] <akgraner> gotcha...
[20:43] <akgraner> I suck at being an idea reviewer for technical ideas
[20:44] <akgraner> but I can look up duplicate and stuff
[20:44] <akgraner> duplicates and stuff or get developer input on something etc
[20:44]  * akgraner can hunt some people down now when I need too
[20:45] <Cheesehead> We have some great dupe hunters already. Vahan and Darwin are fabulous.
[20:45] <Cheesehead> More are welcome, but it may not be the most effective use of akgraner's time.
[20:45] <akgraner> They are awesome
[20:46] <akgraner> you have a great crew there...just let me know if there is something besides promote it's use and report stats each week
[20:46] <akgraner> its even
[20:46] <akgraner> dang it  - apostrophe abuse :-)
[20:47] <knome> another myth busted - i thought girls never typoed
[20:47] <knome> ;)
[20:47] <pleia2> knome: you just hang around me too much, and I'm perfect
[20:47] <knome> ah, that must be it
[20:47] <pleia2> haha
[20:47] <akgraner> pleia2, is like Mary Poppins - "practically perfect in every way"
[20:48] <pleia2> ah, if only :)
[20:49] <Cheesehead> What Brainstorm *really* needs are liasons from the other projects and teams. Somebody from, say, Unity. Not neccesarily a developer, just somebody who keeps up with the meetings and can say 'That's already roadmapped' or 'We rejected that already' or 'Cool, send us a patch'
[20:49] <pleia2> Cheesehead: teams certainly look at brainstorm, but I think they fail at that feedback portion
[20:50] <pleia2> and yeah, without feedback it just feels ignored
[20:50] <Cheesehead> I don't know if it's fail. I want to get the word out on how they can do feedback more effectively.
[20:50] <NRWlion> akgraner: how would you describe me?
[20:50] <Cheesehead> Brainstorm has some cool tools for ffeedback, and the moderators will happily use them...if there's someone to use them with.
[20:51] <Cheesehead> The existing Brainstorm mods can handle 90% of the submissions already. It's that last 10% that are tough.
[20:51] <akgraner> NRWlion, I dunno yet - gotta be around you some more before I give you a disney character name :-)
[20:52]  * akgraner looks at Darkwing and runs
[20:52] <knome> NRWlion, hmm, "his nick starts and ends with an N"
[20:52]  * knome runs
[20:53] <Cheesehead> valorie: Is there a link to the Zen of Conflict session? I am intrigued.
[20:55] <Cheesehead> pleia2: Feeling ignored is the main reason we began referring submitters directly to the appropriate team of project, and encouraging them to become more involved.
[20:55] <Cheesehead> That's the other thing Brainstorm prodices - a stream of new users who want to be involved, but don't know where else to go.
[20:56]  * pleia2 nods
[20:56]  * Cheesehead just invented yet another new word: prodices
[20:58] <Cheesehead> One of my goals here is to find beter ways of getting them involved...instead of turning them into complainers.
[21:03] <NRWlion> akgraner: mail is out. have fun to read ;) its much ;) but Cheesehead and I had a very very productive session last night and earlier today
[21:03] <NRWlion> Cheesehead: thx again for your thoughts! really like developing things with you because in my opinion we share the same thoughts about the topic
[21:07] <valorie> hmmm, there should be, on the cls blog
[21:07] <valorie> however, I never got MY notes in there
[21:08] <valorie> it ended up with too many people, too many ideas, too little time
[21:08] <valorie> but LOTS of energy
[21:08] <valorie> and really, I only wanted people to start thinking of conflict in a new way, as a positive
[21:08] <valorie> so it felt very successful
[21:09]  * Darkwing snickers
[21:09] <valorie> I can still feel the bubbles
[21:09] <valorie> :-)
[21:09] <NRWlion1> re sorry internet probs :(
[21:10] <Darkwing> Still no email... This is not good to happen on a friday.
[21:10] <Darkwing> Any bets on how long RT@ubuntu.com will take to respond?
[21:11] <valorie> :(
[21:11] <valorie> {{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}} to the Darkwing
[21:11] <Darkwing> :D
[21:12] <NRWlion1> akgraner: did my mail come through with the attachments?
[21:12] <topyli> i miss the duck
[21:12] <valorie> Darkwing: may I pm?
[21:12] <Darkwing> Yeah... But, Darkwing is more versitile
[21:12] <Darkwing> valorie: Sure
[21:12] <topyli> Darkwing: if you say so :)
[21:13] <Cheesehead> NRWlion: Happy to help anytime.
[21:23] <Cheesehead> I think 'Darkwing' is a much better name for effective crimefighting.
[21:24] <NRWlion1> Cheesehead: if you think i could be up service. pls do not hesitate to let me know, ok?
[21:25] <Cheesehead> NRWlion1: Of course.
[21:28] <NRWlion1> akgraner: are you alife?
[22:03] <NRWlion1> Cheesehead: ping, akgraner: ping
[22:07]  * Cheesehead looks up groggily
[22:08] <NRWlion1> Cheesehead: http://pastebin.com/mNmA8LRh
[22:12] <Cheesehead> Point 1 should not count against a candidate. Lack of experience of the specific position should be irrelevant; else we could never elect anybody unless they already held the position...
[22:13] <Cheesehead> Overall, it's a political manifesto. Interesting, but mostly opinion.
[22:13] <Cheesehead> (some I agree with, some not)
[22:13] <NRWlion1> that was from phillw (a mentor of mine)
[22:16] <Cheesehead> This was clearly a draft, not the final product.
[22:18]  * NRWlion1 nods
[22:18] <NRWlion1> but i gotta go sleeping now ... having a double shift 2morrow
[22:18] <NRWlion1> cu after shift 2morrow
[22:18] <Cheesehead> Have a good sleep.