[05:19] morning [05:47] bonjour [10:51] hi all - sorry I haven't been around much these last few days [10:51] kids schedules are nuts at the moment [10:52] schedules made of nuts? tasty! [12:37] kome: +1 [13:05] :-) [13:05] CC elections are under way - Just updated my WIki page :-) [13:06] this is kinda exciting [13:22] I already voted :) [13:35] YoBoY, yay! Thanks for taking the time to do so :-) [13:36] I forgot to update my wiki so I just did that then voted :-) [13:45] charlie-tca: When you have time, are you now able to log into Brainstorm? [13:46] I have that checked off my list as done, but not confirmed [13:47] I haven't tried. I got a message from Nicolas asking if I am using brainstorm to login, which seemed ridiculous, since your message said I could not even log in to brainstorm. [13:48] I haven't answered him yet [13:48] I defer to nand on technical issues. If there was a discrepancy, he was probably correct. [13:50] During the final days before release, I certainly understand why this would be a quite low-priority issue for you! [14:05] Cheesehead, it's nice to see the TB is still reviewing the top Brainstorm ideas for each month [14:06] and that developers are looking at those ideas :-) [14:06] cprofitt, good luck! [14:06] thanks [14:06] you as well [14:06] thanks :-) [14:08] akgraner: Well, I did need to poke them...and only five of the ten got responded to...and they missed one whole cycle back in June. But (laughs) I doubt I could do any bettere, so *yes, I am happy about it* [14:08] we pull the top 1-5 each week just to highlight those ideas [14:08] we=UWN [14:09] I was so happy the week there were none to pull. We changed the moderation to weed out a bunch of stuff specifically to make the TBs job easier and get better-quality ideas through to them. [14:10] (Success) [14:10] That's why I'm still happy with 5/10. They are *good* ideas for the most part [14:10] Instead of bugs [16:22] hey there [16:22] Cheesehead: ping [16:23] Cheesehead, yay! [16:23] akgraner: afternoon from rainy germany [16:23] :D [16:24] had any chance working my article (which isnt acceptable i know already ;) ) [16:25] NRWlion, I'm sorry I should have gotten back to you sooner [16:25] I like your article [16:25] Are you submitting it in German or English? [16:26] I think you have some great points [16:26] I'll add some comments for you... [16:26] working on an Ada Lovelace post right this second though [16:26] NRWlion: pong. One moment, let me PM you here... [16:26] today is Ada Lovelace Day - http://findingada.com/ [16:27] Cheesehead: feel free [16:27] a see ^^ [16:28] akgraner: i just wrote down my thoughts as my "experience" reaches back for 2 - 4 years now [16:29] have had a read about many academic literatures and thought it might be a good way to point it out =( [16:30] NRWlion, your thoughts are really good [16:31] akgraner: tell it to cheese and Darkwing ;) [16:31] cprofitt: hey there [16:31] cprofitt: could you spare a moment for pm? [16:32] sure [16:32] NRWlion: I agree with akgraner. Your thoughts are really good. I normally question assumptions and pick around the edges...from me, that's the sign of a sound idea. I kick it a little to se how it wobbles. [16:33] * Cheesehead steps out a moment to help eldest daughter paint a halloween costume [16:33] Cheesehead: see you in a bit. going for a championship game tonight [16:37] akgraner: btw i have no place where to submit it ... =( [16:38] akgraner: you ensured me a testimonial the day before yesterday ... havent seen it yet on my list [17:20] Guys, would you please help me to settle a date for Ubuntu Community Appreciation Day!: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UCADay [17:20] ? [17:21] what you think should it be once or twice a year or free at any time? [17:24] once a year... [17:24] there are so many other ubuntu days weeks etc [17:25] yeah, i prefer this too [17:25] We have more than enough things that happen every 6 months, tied to the release cycles [17:25] but what about the date? [17:25] 17 sept, 20 oct ? [17:25] one sec [17:25] November is pretty open after the first week [17:25] charlie-tca: that's a new nomination then :) [17:26] October is full of Ubuntu User Week, Ubuntu DeveloperWeek, Ubuntu apps developer week, etc [17:26] also getting ready for UDS, and planning stuff for the next release [17:27] when will be the uds? [17:27] What do we do in November besides a week for UDS? [17:27] aha [17:27] First week of November [17:28] we need to set a date just to avoid that ppl will get confused [17:28] we want them to wait for it every year [17:28] like a feast [17:29] ...or tax filings. [17:29] * Cheesehead is embarrassed he said that out loud. He meant to stay quiet. Apologies [17:29] :D oh i forgot about that [17:30] Cheesehead: is welcome anytime anywhere :) [17:30] I would hope we look at the busiest months and avoid them for anything else we can. We have two or three months a year right now that are super busy. [17:31] you mean, sept, oct & nov, right? [17:32] avoid september, october, november, march, april and may [17:32] Thank you, YoBoY [17:33] ashams: releases cycles happen two times a year, thus so does almost everything else. [17:34] august is our b/c of vacations etc [17:34] out [17:34] two months of setting up the new release, two months of final release, two times for each week of sessions in classroom [17:35] I like November - 3rd or 4th week [17:35] Me too [17:35] but shouldn't be somehow related to something in Ubuntu history? [17:35] We need a week after UDS to rest, and then everyone is around again hitting the new release. [17:36] I help moderate all these weeks in as part of backstage - so does pleia2 and nigelb and cjohnston etc [17:36] and Pendulum and others [17:36] yup [17:36] and the more that gets piled into those few weeks/months of activity, the less response you get [17:36] charlie-tca, +1 a week to deal with UDS "hangovers" and get some rest [17:38] ashams: the very first release was 4.10, which released in October, so the next release started in November. That is a tie in [17:39] i exclude november beacause of the after uds break and the thanlsgiving preparation and the release parties in progress everywhere [17:39] 5.04 was considered the first "everyone can use this" release, wasn't it? [17:40] charlie-tca: nice, warty was released on oct 20th, can we just take a month after? [17:41] If I have this all screwed up, feel free to say so, but I think the more that gets piled into the same times, the less response you will see. [17:41] ashams: sounds like a good plan to me [17:41] +1 from me [17:42] and, yes, it might catch some flak because of the American Thanksgiving holiday that will fall close to that some years. [17:43] great, i love that [17:43] so, can someone help me by entering it into the fridge [17:43] sure...I can do that [17:43] akgraner: what does it need to be announced on UWN [17:43] thanks [17:44] Just blog about it and point me to the link [17:45] great, will do it very soon, thanks [17:45] Once you blog about the details - I'll add it to the fridge and link your post and wiki page in the event details sections [17:46] Would have been nice if they planned everything from the start, but it really happened kind of by guessing a lot until now [17:47] charlie-tca: there's not much to plan again, in fact the date was the most important point [17:48] Great! Glad you got one, then [17:48] charlie-tca, which "they" and what "everything" You confused me? (which is easy to do - heck I confuse me some days) [17:49] haha :) [17:50] "they" who started way back in 2004 who never actually planned much until they got together at a date determined a month prior to plan the next release [17:51] Now clear [17:51] All of us who started after that first release knew UDS would be two times a year, but never knew when until about a month before it happened [17:51] We used to plan things as "between 4 and 7 months after the last one" [17:54] Thank you all, akgraner charlie-tca YoBoY Cheesehead and ashams, that's the UCADay soul :) [17:54] You're welcome [17:54] yw :) [17:55] I really thank akgraner for the much more definite scheduling now. You can pretty much plan things these days. [18:08] charlie-tca, I just become a pain about the calendar :-) [18:08] speaking of events [18:09] does anyone here want to give a session for open week? [18:13] not me, sorry [18:32] I never know what session to do, I always waver between "They won't want to know that" and "Everybody already knows that". [18:33] So I stick to small-group discussions, mostinly in the LoCo. [18:34] * Cheesehead has decided to create the word "mostinly" and adds a dictionary entry [18:34] hahaha [18:35] hey akgraner when is a good time to go over the spreadsheet with you? [18:37] um good question [18:37] Can we shoot for Tuesday [18:38] I'll be at a Band Competition most of the day tomorrow, Sunday I'll be out and Monday my kids are out of school so it will be limited time on my computer [18:40] alright. I need to find a good day off school. I get off work Tuesday at 5. Band. Nice. I remember when I was a few years younger my parents would spend all day or some Saturdays going to school events to watch me and my brother. [18:40] I was a band geek myself - so now I am a crazy band parent [18:41] who is of course in charge of our band boosters [18:43] * Cheesehead gets out his clipboard [18:43] nice! i play the drums. thats about it. what interments do they play? [18:45] My daughter is in colorguard - but plays guitar and sings [18:45] my son plays trombone.. [18:47] Hmmz, This isn't good. [18:48] whats wrong Darkwing [18:49] I changed my primary email two days ago and it finally stopped sending to old email address this morning... But it totally stopped. It's not sending to the new email address. [18:49] Darkwing, what's wrong [18:49] oh [18:49] rut roh [18:53] * Cheesehead gets out his clipboard again [18:53] Time for me to get serious about recriting trainers and assistants for the IRC workshops. [18:54] If anyone has a suggestion for a skill not on the list at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuLeadership/Projects#Skill_and_Trainer_List, please let me know. This is just the beginning (one hopes). [18:54] Skill: Understanding the three languages people use to communicate: Feeling/Power/Meaning [18:54] Valorie: Interested perhaps in facilitating ^ ? [18:54] Or can anyone recommend a good facilitator for the topic? [18:54] If you're generally interested in the topic and willing to help (a good shill is a treasure!), sign up as a Volunteer. [18:54] Er, Assistant [18:55] If my email isn't turned back on in a couple hours... I'm not goign to be happy. [18:56] Darkwing: let the Duck loose to cause mayhem again! [18:58] * Cheesehead plans to ask DarwinSurvivor to facilitate the Project Management tools session [18:59] There we go. I'll work a couple today, a couple tomorrow. See if I can get a plan and scheule in place well ahead of target. [18:59] * Cheesehead puts the clipboard away [19:00] remember openweek starts in less than 10 days...can you talk to some folks about giving sessions there too - just have them ping me or jcastro [19:00] I'll be back in about an hour - kid time... [19:00] I'm a taxi for few [19:02] have fun! :) [19:11] * YoBoY have volunteers to recruit for November [19:22] Huh. The Open Week schedule does still seem a bit sprse. I will happily fill some of the void if needed. A topic, however, eludes me at the moment. [19:26] And that's kind of important! [19:31] Everybody Loves Simutrans? No, that's silly. Not everybody does. [20:13] re [20:13] Cheesehead, what about brainstorm [20:13] we haven't had a brainstorm session on the agenda in a while [20:13] I am sure some new users have never even been to the site and don't know how it can benefit them [20:14] a) what agenda , b) what time and c) am i needed for that? [20:15] NRWlion, I think they discussing Cheesehead leaderhip training stuff - but I'm trying to talk Cheesehead into giving a Brainstorm session for Open Week [20:17] kk [20:20] akgraner: maybe you and Cheesehead should have a talk about what Cheesehead and i developed earlier [20:21] well you and Cheesehead could - NRWlion since it was what you all worked on..:-) [20:21] I usually don't give sessions during those weeks b/c I help behind the scenes [20:21] I'll look at the dates and my calendar [20:21] right now, plate is full [20:22] valorie, thank you - I am sure you have a dozen things you could talk about [20:22] check out openweek - time slipped away from so we'll be scrambling last minute to get some session leaders in [20:22] valorie, I understand that - you are a busy lady! [20:23] indeed, but I'm headed to the Googleplex for Doc Camp and the Mentor Summit [20:23] Yeah - I joked with a couple google people about teaching a trolling session [20:23] how to spot nice trolls [20:23] won't be at UDS, so not quite so busy that week -- although staying current via IRC and streaming is rather .... [20:23] and how to troll a troll etc [20:24] my favorite topic so far is the session I did on the Zen of Conflict [20:24] you know stuff from my "Country fried trolling" talk [20:24] everyone is so afraid of it [20:24] conflict handled correctly brings about amazing things [20:25] but yeah I know - "conflict" is not generally thought of as something postitive [20:27] akgraner: do you have a mail adress for me? then i could send you the stuff if Cheesehead agrees? [20:28] sure...akgraner@ubuntu.com [20:30] Cheesehead: are you fine with that? [20:36] once people realize that it's energy, I think it gets a bit less scary [20:37] * Cheesehead sees his name and scrolls back... [20:38] Cheesehead: i just asked if you give permission for me to send akgraner a mail with our conversation [20:40] akgraner: I can do Brainstorm for Open Week....As long as it's known in advance that the old expectaions of Brainstorm bringing world peace through community voting are a daydream...and I'm the wake-up call. [20:41] :-) [20:41] I just wanted you to let people know the ends and outs and encourage them to use it :-) [20:41] Certainly. [20:41] I've seen people putting in ideas that should be bugs and bugs that should be brainstorm ideas recently [20:41] and a little of both on Ask Ubuntu [20:42] NRWlion: Feel free to share our conversation. Nothing private there. [20:42] so I thought it might be a good opportunity to go over brainstorm and set some expectations etc [20:42] and encourage more people to get involved [20:42] Cheesehead: copy that ... akgraner will let you have a read on the logs of the brainstorm session between cheese and me [20:43] akgraner: It always rains bugs in Brainstorm. We have lots of new-user input, we need more old hands to point out that foo was already tried. [20:43] NRWlion, great - thank you... [20:43] gotcha... [20:43] I suck at being an idea reviewer for technical ideas [20:44] but I can look up duplicate and stuff [20:44] duplicates and stuff or get developer input on something etc [20:44] * akgraner can hunt some people down now when I need too [20:45] We have some great dupe hunters already. Vahan and Darwin are fabulous. [20:45] More are welcome, but it may not be the most effective use of akgraner's time. [20:45] They are awesome [20:46] you have a great crew there...just let me know if there is something besides promote it's use and report stats each week [20:46] its even [20:46] dang it - apostrophe abuse :-) [20:47] another myth busted - i thought girls never typoed [20:47] ;) [20:47] knome: you just hang around me too much, and I'm perfect [20:47] ah, that must be it [20:47] haha [20:47] pleia2, is like Mary Poppins - "practically perfect in every way" [20:48] ah, if only :) [20:49] What Brainstorm *really* needs are liasons from the other projects and teams. Somebody from, say, Unity. Not neccesarily a developer, just somebody who keeps up with the meetings and can say 'That's already roadmapped' or 'We rejected that already' or 'Cool, send us a patch' [20:49] Cheesehead: teams certainly look at brainstorm, but I think they fail at that feedback portion [20:50] and yeah, without feedback it just feels ignored [20:50] I don't know if it's fail. I want to get the word out on how they can do feedback more effectively. [20:50] akgraner: how would you describe me? [20:50] Brainstorm has some cool tools for ffeedback, and the moderators will happily use them...if there's someone to use them with. [20:51] The existing Brainstorm mods can handle 90% of the submissions already. It's that last 10% that are tough. [20:51] NRWlion, I dunno yet - gotta be around you some more before I give you a disney character name :-) [20:52] * akgraner looks at Darkwing and runs [20:52] NRWlion, hmm, "his nick starts and ends with an N" [20:52] * knome runs [20:53] valorie: Is there a link to the Zen of Conflict session? I am intrigued. [20:55] pleia2: Feeling ignored is the main reason we began referring submitters directly to the appropriate team of project, and encouraging them to become more involved. [20:55] That's the other thing Brainstorm prodices - a stream of new users who want to be involved, but don't know where else to go. [20:56] * pleia2 nods [20:56] * Cheesehead just invented yet another new word: prodices [20:58] One of my goals here is to find beter ways of getting them involved...instead of turning them into complainers. [21:03] akgraner: mail is out. have fun to read ;) its much ;) but Cheesehead and I had a very very productive session last night and earlier today [21:03] Cheesehead: thx again for your thoughts! really like developing things with you because in my opinion we share the same thoughts about the topic [21:07] hmmm, there should be, on the cls blog [21:07] however, I never got MY notes in there [21:08] it ended up with too many people, too many ideas, too little time [21:08] but LOTS of energy [21:08] and really, I only wanted people to start thinking of conflict in a new way, as a positive [21:08] so it felt very successful [21:09] * Darkwing snickers [21:09] I can still feel the bubbles [21:09] :-) [21:09] re sorry internet probs :( [21:10] Still no email... This is not good to happen on a friday. [21:10] Any bets on how long RT@ubuntu.com will take to respond? [21:11] :( [21:11] {{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}} to the Darkwing [21:11] :D [21:12] akgraner: did my mail come through with the attachments? [21:12] i miss the duck [21:12] Darkwing: may I pm? [21:12] Yeah... But, Darkwing is more versitile [21:12] valorie: Sure [21:12] Darkwing: if you say so :) [21:13] NRWlion: Happy to help anytime. [21:23] I think 'Darkwing' is a much better name for effective crimefighting. [21:24] Cheesehead: if you think i could be up service. pls do not hesitate to let me know, ok? [21:25] NRWlion1: Of course. [21:28] akgraner: are you alife? [22:03] Cheesehead: ping, akgraner: ping [22:07] * Cheesehead looks up groggily [22:08] Cheesehead: http://pastebin.com/mNmA8LRh [22:12] Point 1 should not count against a candidate. Lack of experience of the specific position should be irrelevant; else we could never elect anybody unless they already held the position... [22:13] Overall, it's a political manifesto. Interesting, but mostly opinion. [22:13] (some I agree with, some not) [22:13] that was from phillw (a mentor of mine) [22:16] This was clearly a draft, not the final product. [22:18] * NRWlion1 nods [22:18] but i gotta go sleeping now ... having a double shift 2morrow [22:18] cu after shift 2morrow [22:18] Have a good sleep.