[00:11] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Slick.
[02:19] <pmp6nl> Hey everyone, I recently moved to St. Paul and just wanted to give a shout out
[02:21] <tonyyarusso> Welcome pmp6nl.
[02:22] <tonyyarusso> Where'd you move from?
[02:23] <pmp6nl> Thanks tony.  I moved from Iowa
[02:24] <BushyToast> Hello there!  :-D
[02:24] <pmp6nl> Hi BushyToast
[02:25] <pmp6nl> It looks like you guys have a few people in irc, are you all pretty active?
[02:25] <BushyToast> I wish there was an active LUG in the area.  :-(  I haven't yet found any.
[02:26] <tonyyarusso> Iowa, eh?  Moving up in the world then.  ;)
[02:26] <BushyToast> Minnesota > Iowa
[02:26] <tonyyarusso> Well, "pretty active" is relative.  We do okay, but we're a far cry from where we should be still.
[02:27] <pmp6nl> Hehe.  I lived in ND for a while also.
[02:28] <tonyyarusso> Oh, so Iowa was exciting for you then.
[02:28] <pmp6nl> Are most of you in the metro or greater Minnesota?  (I am trying out the lingo I have been hearing)
[02:28] <pmp6nl> Fargo isnt bad
[02:28] <BushyToast> I refuse to believe that ND actually exists.  I think it's a story that parents tell their children, like Santa.
[02:28] <tonyyarusso> Metro here.
[02:28] <BushyToast> Metro.
[02:28] <pmp6nl> Well shoot, why dont we have an active LUG?
[02:29] <BushyToast> I wish we did.
[02:29] <pmp6nl> You would think there would be a significant number of Ubuntu users in the metro
[02:29] <BushyToast> I moved here from FL and we had a couple pretty active LUGs there.  There's a whole lot more tech here.  It confuses me.
[02:29] <tonyyarusso> h00k is our Wisconsin liason, near Rhinelander; ripps is Duluth; Takyoji is Faribault; sparklehistory is Metro; rlaager is Thief River Falls; not sure of the rest offhand.
[02:31] <pmp6nl> Oh ok. cool.  I noticed even the MN forums are pretty dead
[02:31] <tonyyarusso> There actually is a metro LUG group that we partner with.  The mailing list portion operates under the "TCLUG" name, and the in-person events portion operates under "Penguins Unbound".  The latter meets once a month on Saturday mornings in St. Paul, with a presentation on varying topics most months, and Ubuntu-focused (but not exclusive) installfests following Ubuntu releases in April and October.
[02:31] <tonyyarusso> The forum is probably our least-used resource.  More happens here and our mailing list.
[02:31] <BushyToast> Really?
[02:32] <pmp6nl> Sweet, thanks for the info on the metro Lug.  I will look for the mailing list
[02:32] <tonyyarusso> http://penguinsunbound.com/Meetings
[02:32] <BushyToast> Are the meetings well attended?
[02:32] <tonyyarusso> The topics didn't get filled in on there for most of them, but Brian always sends an announcement to the ML.
[02:33] <pmp6nl> Cool.  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TCLUG/
[02:33] <tonyyarusso> Probably two dozen normal months, more like four or five dozen for installfests.
[02:34] <BushyToast> It's been years since I've been to an installfest.  :-D
[02:34] <pmp6nl> Should be one coming up
[02:34] <tonyyarusso> Yep - the 29th.
[02:35] <tonyyarusso> All day affair, 9-5.
[02:35] <tonyyarusso> Kind of open-house-ish, come and go as you please.
[02:35] <pmp6nl> Shoot, thats a long time to wait
[02:35] <pmp6nl> (to install)
[02:36] <pmp6nl> Im ready to move beyond 10.04, I have been testing 11.10 and it works well on my laptop.  More than I can say for 10.10 and 11.04
[02:38] <BushyToast> I will certainly try to make it for the installfest.
[02:39] <pmp6nl> I think I will try also.  It would be cool to meet other linux people, beyond those I have converted
[02:41] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, I'm using 10.04 on everything now, but plan to upgrade one or two to 11.10.
[02:42] <pmp6nl> How many computers do you run?
[02:42] <tonyyarusso> Too many :P
[02:42] <BushyToast> My living room is filled with computers.  :-)  It's pretty sad.
[02:42] <tonyyarusso> Mine are worse - they live in my bedroom.
[02:44] <BushyToast> I have two in there.
[02:44] <pmp6nl> hehe, nice.  people think I am crazy and I only have 3 operational computers
[02:47] <tonyyarusso> Two routers (with Linux firmware - DD-WRT and Linksys stock), one Linux minitablet (Maemo), two virtual private servers (Ubuntu), and thirteen local machines (Ubuntu).
[02:48] <BushyToast> I love DD-WRT.
[02:48] <BushyToast> I don't have 13 machines in my house.  :-)  Maybe OSs, but not physical computers.
[02:50] <tonyyarusso> Those are just mine...my other family members account for five more, and then there are two work laptops.
[02:51] <pmp6nl> Holy cow, 13+.  I have 3, an android phone, a boxee box, and i think that is all of my linux devices.  Unless something runs linux that I dont know
[02:51] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, it's a bit ridiculous.
[02:51] <pmp6nl> I assume most are not used?
[02:52] <tonyyarusso> Well, they have varying degrees of use frequency.  Many are used for something semi-regularly.
[02:52] <tonyyarusso> Let's see....
[02:52] <pmp6nl> Tinkering with?  Servers? Distributed computing?
[02:52] <tonyyarusso> fort-frances is the primary router & access point - always on.  (DD-WRT)
[02:53] <tonyyarusso> thunder-bay is the secondary router & AP - currently on (and connected to it)  (Linksys)
[02:53] <tonyyarusso> moosonee is my personal VPS - always on, and what I'm running my IRC client from right now.
[02:54] <tonyyarusso> kashechewan is John Marty's campaign VPS - always on, running web sites and e-mail for him
[02:54] <tonyyarusso> geraldton is my old laptop - currently off needing a new hard drive, but what I have used to run development releases on recently
[02:54] <tonyyarusso> timmins is the new laptop - used daily, and what I'm no right now
[02:55] <tonyyarusso> nipigon is the Eee PC - used for class, meetings, travel, and other times when I need small form factor and long battery life
[02:55] <tonyyarusso> hearst is the Nokia minitablet - used occasionally when travelling sans-laptop, functioning largely as a PDA
[02:56] <tonyyarusso> thornloe is an ancient PII Compaq - usually off, used rarely only for networking experimentation
[02:56] <tonyyarusso> latchford is a second Compaq matching thornloe
[02:57] <tonyyarusso> killarney is a new 1U rackmount unit, currently in a long and slow process of being deployed for things like web & DNS caching, so will eventually be always-on but isn't yet
[02:58] <tonyyarusso> mattawa is an MSI nettop - always on, also serves as the audio switch for all of my devices (any of these computers can play through a set of speakers around my room)
[02:59] <tonyyarusso> dryden is normally an always-on system, but currently still in a bag from the last time I took it somewhere - it serves as my local APT repository cache, and often tags along to the installfests for that purpose as well.  I need to remember to plug it back in and get updated before the 29th.  ;)
[02:59] <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: Have enough computers there?  At this rate you're going to run out of Canadian towns . . . :P
[02:59] <tonyyarusso> atikokan is a file server, so always on and accessed all the time
[03:00] <tonyyarusso> powassan is another travelling system, so normally and currently off, although I'm thinking it will get deployed in a monitoring role at least partially as well.
[03:00] <tonyyarusso> kapuskasing is an old desktop that is currently for sale if you're interested - IBM NetVista M42
[03:01] <tonyyarusso> keewatin is another oldish desktop that doesn't have a well-defined purpose yet, but likely will soon when I get around to some reorganizing.
[03:01] <tonyyarusso> sudbury is my main desktop, so while not always on frequently so, and also runs virtual machines as necessary
[03:01] <tonyyarusso> sparklehistory: Nah, I have lots more names to use :P
[03:02] <Takyoji> egad, discussion.
[03:02] <tonyyarusso> I have names pre-provisioned to all of this for virtual machines, extra NICs, and likely future acquisitions as appropriate.
[03:02] <BushyToast> I'd hate to see your electric bill.
[03:03] <pmp6nl> Wow, thats crazy.  Thats why I was thinking Bushy
[03:03] <pmp6nl> I have yet to name my computers.
[03:03] <BushyToast> Used to have a huge Compaq server running Netware back in the day in a rack in the basement.  It was amazing the difference in the bill when it was turned off.
[03:03] <Takyoji> heh, the 29th is a bit late for an installfest. xP
[03:04] <pmp6nl> tonyyarusso, who is you ISP?  Takyoji: Thats what I was thinking
[03:04] <tonyyarusso> Reserved names currently are sault-sainte-marie, fort-severn, attawapiskat, peawanuck, greenstone, iroquois-falls, marathon, charlton, englehart, kirkland-lake, cobalt, temagami, temiskaming-shores, rankin, sioux-lookout, rainy-river, red-lake, sioux-narrows, nestor-falls, whitefish-bay, nipissing, cochrane, smooth-rock-falls, north-bay, espanola, markstay, thessalon, warren, elliot-lake, saint-charles, french-river, ...
[03:04] <Takyoji> Any IPv6? :P
[03:04] <tonyyarusso> ... sturgeon-falls, blind-river, algoma-mills, bruce-mines, and hilton-beach.
[03:04] <Takyoji> Also, registered on Linux Counter at all? :P
[03:05] <Takyoji> I'm contemplating on registering that whole school some time. :P
[03:05] <tonyyarusso> Additionally, I have 8 names provisioned for wireless SSIDs.  :P
[03:05] <tonyyarusso> pmp6nl: Qwest.
[03:05] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Not at home, but both VPS systems have native IPv6.
[03:05] <Takyoji> and lemme guess, the new folks aren't anywhere south of the general metro area as usual? :P
[03:06] <Takyoji> Because you have Linode, yes. :P
[03:06] <Takyoji> As do I
[03:06] <tonyyarusso> I'll set up a tunnel for home soonish.
[03:06] <Takyoji> I've got a 6rd tunnel through Charter Communication
[03:06] <tonyyarusso> Some are on Linux counter, but my account is way out of date there.
[03:06] <pmp6nl> You got the 40/20meg they are offering now?  Nope, im Saint Paul
[03:06] <tonyyarusso> No - 7/.7
[03:07] <pmp6nl> Even for the servers hosting the websites?
[03:07] <Takyoji> but yea, as of the multi-purpose printer I mentioned earlier: HP PSC 2175 ( http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/product?cc=us&lc=en&dlc=en&product=90809 )
[03:07] <tonyyarusso> Those are Linodes, hosted in a real datacentre in Newark, New Jersey.
[03:07] <Takyoji> same datacenter as mine are. :P
[03:07] <Takyoji> With one exception of one in Atlanta
[03:08] <Takyoji> and we srsly need to start working on the group in general and all; or at least the website or similar. :P
[03:09] <pmp6nl> Ah gottcha, I thought you were running them from home.  Takyoji: I could provide limited help
[03:09] <Takyoji> I'm speaking from myself as being a web developer. :P
[03:10] <pmp6nl> ah ok
[03:10] <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: Yes, I know.  I believe I've even seen your spreadsheet of them all.  That doesn't make it less crazy ;)
[03:12] <Takyoji> We still have the traditional theme yet
[03:13] <tonyyarusso> yeah...
[03:13] <tonyyarusso> But I like that theme :P
[03:13] <Takyoji> but it's not about what you specifically like. :P
[03:13] <tonyyarusso> I suppose now that Unity is no longer terrible I could be talked into updating.
[03:13] <tonyyarusso> IT'S NOT?
[03:13] <Takyoji> The theme didn't really even have any relation to Unity in the first place. :P
[03:13] <Takyoji> There is no black or cold colors at all
[03:15] <Takyoji> and my god theming for Wordpress is so much more straightforward than theming for Drupal since each module in Drupal pretty much has it's own separate stylesheet (embedded /after/ the core theme's stylesheet, or at least in the implementation of the LoCo theme)
[03:16] <Takyoji> if not Wordpress, there's always the option of something Django based. :P
[03:17] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, because we totally have time to write our own CMS software.
[03:19] <Takyoji> because it only takes a few lines of code to do it in Django? :P
[03:21] <Takyoji> or of using the several options available made with Django
[03:31] <tonyyarusso> What do you have against Drupal anyway?
[03:34] <Takyoji> the nature of the API, the internals such a the database structure, annoyance with theming and overriding module's themes and so on
[03:35] <tonyyarusso> What do you dislike about them though?  I actually think it's really nice...
[03:35] <tonyyarusso> Modules SHOULD be able to change things - that's sort of the point.
[03:36] <Takyoji> If you're a person that wants a CMS and wants to be able to add on additional functionality without any technical knowledge, Drupal is nice. But if you're moreso perfectionist and need specific tweaking, it doesn't feel comfortable.
[03:37] <Takyoji> and I don't see why a module should dictate images for each level of navigation, and color, and several other fine details
[03:37] <Takyoji> and that's the core navigation system
[03:38] <Takyoji> that's not semantic, that's visual; the theme is supposed to deal with visual details, the module should only deal with semantics.
[03:40] <Takyoji> I had to set '!important' to explicitly override any other rules dictating the bullet image for the navigation
[03:41] <Takyoji> which is a bad practice of having to resort to
[03:42] <Takyoji> ul.menu{list-style:none;border:none;text-align:left;}ul.menu li{margin:0 0 0 0.5em;}li.expanded{list-style-type:circle;list-style-image:url(/misc/menu-expanded.png);padding:0.2em 0.5em 0 0;margin:0;}li.collapsed{list-style-type:disc;list-style-image:url(/misc/menu-collapsed.png);padding:0.2em 0.5em 0 0;margin:0;}li.leaf{list-style-type:square;list-style-image:url(/misc/menu-leaf.png);padding:0.2em 0.5em 0 0;margin:0;}li a.active{
[03:42] <Takyoji> I believe this is actually pretty much all the module CSS: http://ubuntu-minnesota.org/sites/ubuntu-minnesota.org/files/css/css_5aa29846dc4f6ebca23b6439a131642e.css
[03:46] <Takyoji> and here's the theme itself: http://ubuntu-minnesota.org/sites/ubuntu-minnesota.org/themes/ubuntu-drupal-theme/css/dust.css
[05:59] <pmp6nl> See you all later