[01:42] <ScottK> tumbleweed: done.
[03:11] <micahg> jbicha: I saw your blog post, have you seen backportpackage?
[03:15] <jbicha> micahg: no, so many tools to learn :)
[03:16] <jbicha> micahg: so it works the same way, just with one command instead of 2 or more?
[03:17] <micahg> jbicha: yep
[07:10] <dholbach> good morning
[07:16] <Q-FUNK> dholbach: morning!
[07:17] <dholbach> hi Q-FUNK
[08:04] <Laney> greetings
[08:04]  * tumbleweed waves
[08:06] <Laney> will hopefully find time to review the queue shortly
[08:06] <tumbleweed> it's eempty
[08:06] <Laney> (yessssssssssssssssssssss)
[10:44] <Laney> who let me upload?
[10:44]  * Laney hopes the darcs fiasco is over
[12:16] <Laney> tumbleweed: can I sync haskell-hashed-storage?
[13:08] <Laney> and upload darcs to disable that broken test to fix arm/ppc
[14:03] <ScottK> Laney: You can.
[14:07] <Laney> thanks!
[14:08] <Laney> should appear in the queue shortly
[14:11] <ScottK> Approved the sync.
[14:25] <tumbleweed> ScottK: thanks
[14:25] <ScottK> No problem.
[14:42] <Laney> bah, I finally got directory specific profiles working and now I'm forced to run update-maintainer again :P
[15:32] <Laney> ScottK: darcs in queue
[15:32] <ScottK> I'll have a look in  moment.
[15:32] <Laney> merci
[15:33] <Laney> now I can scrub my head of the knowledge of its testsuite internals
[15:33] <Laney> for all the good looking at it did
[15:34] <ScottK> Is it going to hurt my eyes to look at the diff once it arrives?
[15:34] <Laney> no
[15:34] <Laney> you'll see why my studying was worthless :-)
[15:35] <ScottK> OK.  Good.
[15:39] <ScottK> Laney: Accepted.
[15:39] <Laney> thank you
[15:40] <ScottK> No problem.
[16:48] <pmjdebruijn> hi all
[16:48] <pmjdebruijn> can anybody here give me some pointers on how to package an .xpi file? (containing themeing info)
[16:49] <pmjdebruijn> I have general packaging experience
[16:50] <pmjdebruijn> but it seems xpi files are both in /usr/lib/firefox-7.0.1/extensions/ and /usr/lib/firefox-addons/extensions/
[17:30] <micahg> pmjdebruijn: use mozilla-devscripts, there's an install-xpi binary
[17:31] <micahg> pmjdebruijn: BTW, we're not accepting new extensions in Ubuntu, but Debian does take them
[18:40] <Laney> What if everyone working on the ARB process instead worked on reviewing packages and backports for the main archive?
[18:41] <Zhenech> Laney, ubuntu would suck less? *duck* ;)
[18:42] <Laney> I think "let's throw man hours at bypassing the distribution" is absurd
[18:42] <micahg> Laney: I don't think that would be good
[18:43] <Laney> because these packages are so bad that we'd never want them in?
[18:43]  * micahg thinks he needs to catch up on mail
[18:43] <tumbleweed> Laney: considering that we have two published ARB apps, I'm not quite worried yet :)
[18:43] <Laney> I've been worried since Brussels
[18:44] <micahg> Laney: no, because backports being properly staffed could possibly help a lot of people keep popular apps updated
[18:45] <Laney> ?
[18:45] <tumbleweed> although I see 15 review requests
[18:45] <Laney> I don't understand how that is a disagreement with my position :-)
[18:48] <tumbleweed> arguably, if we can't staff our current processes, something is broken, and new processes may help. Then again, just "doing something" isn't the cure
[18:48] <Laney> well the new process in this case is basically just a combined archive + backports queue
[18:49] <Laney> for some reason people want to review these packages but not those rotting in revu
[18:50] <tumbleweed> because it's new and shiny? :)
[18:50] <tumbleweed> and they get to sit on a board
[18:51] <tumbleweed> clearly we aren't making MOTU sexy enough. (or maybe we are just whining)
[18:52] <Laney> poor old sad motu :(
[18:53]  * Laney curls up on it
[18:53] <ajmitch> poor Laney :)
[18:54]  * Laney gets in between ajmitch's legs
[18:54] <ajmitch> uh
[18:54]  * Elbrus bets it is way too late to have any change in getting bug 871332 fixed (is not a high-impact bug, just very annoying that I will get the bug reports)
[18:54] <Laney> hahahaha
[18:55] <Laney> i didn't mean that to sound sexy
[18:55]  * ajmitch goes back into hiding
[18:55] <Laney> i wanted to be a cat :(
[18:55] <Laney> oh god right that is it i am never speakig again BYE
[18:55] <tumbleweed> Laney: actually probably far simpler than that. ARB is trying to recruit. MOTU is twiddling its thumbs
[18:55] <Elbrus> should I still file the debdiff to fix it? (Nearly done).
[18:57] <Laney> that is true
[18:58] <Laney> Elbrus: we can get it in if you're quick with the debdiff
[19:00] <Elbrus> uploading now
[19:00] <Elbrus> attached
[19:01] <Elbrus> Laney, that would be great.
[19:01]  * Elbrus is glad he is asking ;)
[19:01] <ScottK> Laney: I suspect that Debian will be gaining some new users soon.  The ones that like the idea of an actual release.
[19:03] <Laney> at least that is one thing I can be thankful for MOTU for. Making me appreciate the release, and Debian even more.
[19:03] <Laney> geser: dmb?
[19:05] <Laney> Elbrus: where did you get the patch from? why does a soname bump imply these changes?
[19:07] <Elbrus> I made the patch (as part of my help to upstream)
[19:07] <Laney> have they applied it there?
[19:07] <Elbrus> the soname changed the interface to ffmpeg
[19:07] <Elbrus> it is in the download section (will find the url)
[19:08] <Elbrus> http://code.google.com/p/winff/downloads/detail?name=presets-libavcodec53-v1.xml.gz&can=2&q=
[19:08] <Elbrus> that is where I base the debian and ubuntu presets on in the package
[19:08] <Elbrus> I don't use it as is because libaac is not supported by default in ubuntu and debian
[19:09] <Elbrus> and the diff between ubuntu and debian was because long time debian didn't have the libavcodec-extra-xx package (but now they do
[19:09] <Elbrus> )
[19:10] <Elbrus> next debian package will have one preset file for both debian and ubuntu, exactly containing the presets as they are now in the debdiff
[19:11] <Laney> nice
[19:11] <Elbrus> but if it was slightly possible I wanted to have these changes in Oneiric
[19:11] <Elbrus> so decided to do that first now
[19:11]  * Elbrus will probably create the new debian package tonight or on wednesday.
[19:12] <Elbrus> Laney: do you want me to add the above expaination to the bug report?
[19:12] <Laney> no that's fine
[19:12] <Laney> i am in a meeting now, maybe someone else can upload it
[19:15] <ajmitch> ScottK: you don't agree with the recent suggestions then? :)
[19:15] <ScottK> ajmitch: No, but I don't find them suprising.
[19:17] <ajmitch> I'm surprised that there'd be this push to use extras.u.c instead of universe for far more applications
[19:19] <ScottK> It's completely the opposite thing from making sense.
[19:20] <ScottK> "Oh, there's not enough people to review new packages and many of the existing packages are crap"
[19:20] <ajmitch> it also won't scale at all with the current processes for the ARB
[19:21] <ScottK> "Hey, we can fix that by creating an entirely new process to allow more crap in after more detailed review."
[19:21] <ajmitch> it's more like moving the piles of crap from one heap to another
[19:21] <ScottK> No, the rules are relaxed, so it's actually inviting increasing levels of crap.
[19:22] <ajmitch> at a cost of more review time, and more pain on the part of packagers & reviewers
[19:22]  * ajmitch really wishes he could log in to his work desktop sometime today
[19:22] <ScottK> Like I said: It does the opposite of solving any actual problems.
[19:22] <ajmitch> this laptop keyboard is annoying
[19:25] <ajmitch> one mitigating factor to cut down on the crap levels is that packages in extras.ubuntu.com don't get carried over from one release to another
[19:25] <ajmitch> that's also something that increases reviewing time when it comes to the next version
[19:26] <micahg> ajmitch: not everything needs an update every 6 months
[19:26] <jbicha> the extras repository never made much sense to me, I don't see how it really helps Ubuntu or the developers
[19:26] <lifeless> ajmitch: whats wrong with your work machine ?
[19:26] <ajmitch> lifeless: thrashing
[19:26] <micahg> jbicha: it was pitched as something for apps that didn't have a lifespan beyond a few months
[19:27] <lifeless> ajmitch: \o/
[19:27] <ajmitch> lifeless: I can get as far as connecting & getting the host key, but ssh is hanging after that
[19:27]  * ajmitch needs more than 8GB of RAM :)
[19:27] <tumbleweed> ScottK: well, volunteer motivation isn't man-hours that can be moved around by managers. People feel more or less motivated to work on projects. And providing an interesting project can draw people.
[19:28] <lifeless> ajmitch: thats tricky to get w/out server hardware
[19:28] <lifeless> ajmitch: I *just* managed 16GB for my dev workstation
[19:28] <ScottK> tumbleweed: True, which is another reason moving stuff to extras doesn't make sense.
[19:28] <ajmitch> lifeless: nah, you can get laptops with 16GB of RAM now, it's becoming more common in workstations
[19:28] <tumbleweed> :)
[19:29] <lifeless> ajmitch: laptops w/16? I haven't seen that (in the x201 space that is :P)
[19:29] <ajmitch> micahg: not having a package carry over from one release to the next because of lack of reviewer time, even if the package doesn't change, doesn't feel good
[19:29] <micahg> lifeless: system76 :)
[19:29] <ScottK> micahg: I think it was pitched by people who think 22 crap versions of solitaire is why Android is successful.
[19:29] <lifeless> ajmitch: the latest <blah codename> from intel will do 32GB tops in the desktop range
[19:29] <ajmitch> lifeless: it was either zareason or system76 that had one like that
[19:29] <jbicha> or by photobomb's rapid release cycle where the dev doesn't want to support old versions
[19:30] <lifeless> ajmitch: and to do that you need some crazy arse hard to get dimms
[19:30] <micahg> ajmitch: some stuff just works, I like Debian's policy of at least one upload per cycle (2 yrs), some stuff doesn't really need more than that
[19:31] <jbicha> I really like submitting to Debian first, it was confusing and frightening at first to figure out who to talk to, to get my app reviewed
[19:31] <jbicha> but it seems a better process than revu or especially the extras idea
[19:31] <tumbleweed> yeah, debian-mentors is *way* more active than revu
[19:32] <ajmitch> micahg: at the moment each arb submission needs a code review & then a majority vote from arb members
[19:36]  * ajmitch has to note that the requirement for /opt/extras.ubuntu.com is a bit of a pain to get right
[19:36] <tumbleweed> yeah I don't really get the point of that
[19:37] <tumbleweed> I suppose it makes reviewing easier, though
[19:37] <SpamapS> hrm, how does one get a wiki page on help.ubuntu.com renamed?
[19:37] <ajmitch> I haven't seen one submission get it right first try
[19:38] <ajmitch> it's meant so that there won't be a conflict with anything shipped by the distribution
[19:38] <ajmitch> but what it means is that there's some hackery to work in
[19:38] <lifeless> SpamapS: log in
[19:39]  * tumbleweed thinks I got quite close on the first try, but I cheated by being an ubuntu developer :P
[19:39] <ajmitch> & yours was dead simple
[19:40] <tumbleweed> that too, although I had to bundle a library
[19:40] <Laney> :O
[19:40]  * ajmitch watches Laney wince
[19:40] <ScottK> With enough automated QA testing we could have automated removals and allow anyone to upload and eliminate the requirement for distro developers completely.
[19:41] <ajmitch> sounds great, then we could all just relax
[19:41] <lifeless> bwaha
[19:41] <tumbleweed> ScottK: stop scaring us
[19:42] <SpamapS> lifeless: am logged in, Rename is greyed out
[19:42] <ScottK> tumbleweed: Please plan for this at the next UDS.  Sorry I won't be there to help.
[19:42] <lifeless> SpamapS: odd
[19:42] <jbicha> in Soviet Russia, Ubuntu packages you!
[19:42] <tumbleweed> ScottK: plan an ARB discussion?
[19:42] <lifeless> SpamapS: did you logout and in again ? (per the moin openid fail) ?
[19:42] <Laney> UDS can happen without ScottK?
[19:42] <ScottK> tumbleweed: No, the automatic one.
[19:43] <tumbleweed> aah, automated removals sounds useful. Right now, our QA lags behind debian, badly
[19:43] <ScottK> SpamapS: h.u.c is a separate wiki from w.u.c, so you may have limited permissions.  I think you need to docs team person like jbicha.
[19:43] <jbicha> I don't even have permissions for the wiki yet, maybe I should ask though...
[19:43] <ScottK> jbicha: If you don't, you know people who do ...
[19:43] <jbicha> SpamapS: you might be able to just create a new page and change the old one into just a redirect
[19:43] <SpamapS> Ok, that makes sense
[19:44] <SpamapS> Need to rename https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Orchestra/JuJu to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Orchestra/Juju
[19:44] <SpamapS> Ok yeah I'll try that instead
[19:49] <SpamapS> ok, done w/ a redirect
[20:02] <c_korn> is there a documentation about the changes between debhelper 7 and 8 ?
[20:04] <jtaylor> c_korn: man debhelper?
[20:06] <c_korn> yeah, I know this. but maybe changes regarding the new fance options in debian/rules for example?
[20:21] <tumbleweed> Elbrus: your debdiff looks reasonable, I'll sponsor it
[20:27] <Elbrus> tumbleweed: great
[20:28] <Laney> there we go, got my meeting duties out of the way in record time
[20:34]  * Elbrus is going to bed with a good feeling
[20:40] <Laney> dang, I wanted to ask him if he was a climber
[20:42] <tumbleweed> ScottK: talking of automated removals. I did something about monitoring merge age: http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/ubuntu-qa/oldmerges/
[20:43] <tumbleweed> (hacked up ages ago, but never got around to running it. It also hammers lp rather hard :/ )
[20:43] <ajmitch> sorting by the superseded column is an interesting read
[20:43] <tumbleweed> yeah, that's the main aim
[20:44]  * Laney nmued hp-ppd recently
[20:45]  * ajmitch looks at gallary2 in debian & sees 4 RC bugs
[20:45] <Laney> poor poor webapps
[20:45] <Laney> not that it's in unstable any more
[20:45] <Laney> s/unstable/stable/
[20:45] <ajmitch> I thought it was just removed from testing
[20:45] <Laney> & testing
[20:46] <ajmitch> since we get all the cruft from unstable, we get these wonderful packages
[20:46] <milli> ScottK: what kind of koolaid have you been drinking today?  ;-)
[20:47] <pmjdebruijn> micahg: thanks
[20:48] <micahg> Laney: well, next time, we'll do a precise sync from testing
[20:48] <tumbleweed> which also means we should look at what debian has currently removed from testing
[20:49] <micahg> yep
[20:49] <Laney> i imagine the normal process-removals script can/will be tweaked
[20:51] <Laney> maybe s/imagine/hope/ :-)
[20:52] <tumbleweed> which means parsing all the debian release team's hint files...
[20:52] <ScottK> milli: It's more likely I was being sarcastic.
[20:53] <milli> ScottK: ;-)
[20:54] <ScottK> tumbleweed: It would have been nice to have this before now ...  Definitely something to attend to for precise QA.
[20:55] <Laney> reasons aren't readily available indeed, but we can do it on a best-effort basis
[20:55] <jtaylor> why is jython in main? oO
[20:55] <tumbleweed> ScottK: sorry, had it a month ago :(
[20:55] <Laney> please get that on some kind of QA index
[20:55]  * tumbleweed gets the feeling he needs to get into an ubuntuwire team
[20:56] <geser> tumbleweed: should it be easier now as LP has proper published state for Debian?
[20:56] <ajmitch> tumbleweed: what do you need & where?
[20:56]  * ScottK points tumbleweed at #ubuntuwire ....
[20:56] <Laney> also the FTBFS graphs that you've got
[20:58]  * tumbleweed moved the conversation to #ubuntuwire
[20:59]  * Laney entrusts
[21:21] <Laney> can we have a report for "packages in universe not in debian with bugs with severity >= high"?
[21:23] <ajmitch> Laney: patches welcome ;)
[21:23] <ajmitch> it shouldn't be too hard, actually
[21:28] <Laney> quite
[21:30] <tumbleweed> if lp bugs were in UDD, that'd be so easy...
[23:11] <OwaisL> Guys, I added a patch to python-distutils-extra for auto detection of gobject-introspection modules. Anyone interested in testing??
[23:12] <ScottK> You should probably talk to pitti when he's around.
[23:13] <ScottK> He can usually be found on #ubuntu-devel.
[23:14] <OwaisL> Thanks ScottK, actually I looked for him but he was not around :) Anyways, need to sleep. Good Night all!