[01:42] tumbleweed: done. === jincreator1 is now known as jincreator === micahg_ is now known as micahg [03:11] jbicha: I saw your blog post, have you seen backportpackage? [03:15] micahg: no, so many tools to learn :) [03:16] micahg: so it works the same way, just with one command instead of 2 or more? [03:17] jbicha: yep === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan [07:10] good morning [07:16] dholbach: morning! [07:17] hi Q-FUNK [08:04] greetings [08:04] * tumbleweed waves [08:06] will hopefully find time to review the queue shortly [08:06] it's eempty [08:06] (yessssssssssssssssssssss) === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [10:44] who let me upload? [10:44] * Laney hopes the darcs fiasco is over === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach === Zic_ is now known as Zic === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away [12:16] tumbleweed: can I sync haskell-hashed-storage? === medberry is now known as med_out === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan [13:08] and upload darcs to disable that broken test to fix arm/ppc === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [14:03] Laney: You can. [14:07] thanks! [14:08] should appear in the queue shortly [14:11] Approved the sync. [14:25] ScottK: thanks [14:25] No problem. [14:42] bah, I finally got directory specific profiles working and now I'm forced to run update-maintainer again :P === al-maisan is now known as almaisan-away [15:32] ScottK: darcs in queue [15:32] I'll have a look in moment. [15:32] merci [15:33] now I can scrub my head of the knowledge of its testsuite internals [15:33] for all the good looking at it did [15:34] Is it going to hurt my eyes to look at the diff once it arrives? [15:34] no [15:34] you'll see why my studying was worthless :-) [15:35] OK. Good. [15:39] Laney: Accepted. [15:39] thank you [15:40] No problem. === micahg_ is now known as micahg [16:48] hi all [16:48] can anybody here give me some pointers on how to package an .xpi file? (containing themeing info) [16:49] I have general packaging experience [16:50] but it seems xpi files are both in /usr/lib/firefox-7.0.1/extensions/ and /usr/lib/firefox-addons/extensions/ [17:30] pmjdebruijn: use mozilla-devscripts, there's an install-xpi binary [17:31] pmjdebruijn: BTW, we're not accepting new extensions in Ubuntu, but Debian does take them [18:40] What if everyone working on the ARB process instead worked on reviewing packages and backports for the main archive? [18:41] Laney, ubuntu would suck less? *duck* ;) [18:42] I think "let's throw man hours at bypassing the distribution" is absurd [18:42] Laney: I don't think that would be good [18:43] because these packages are so bad that we'd never want them in? [18:43] * micahg thinks he needs to catch up on mail [18:43] Laney: considering that we have two published ARB apps, I'm not quite worried yet :) [18:43] I've been worried since Brussels [18:44] Laney: no, because backports being properly staffed could possibly help a lot of people keep popular apps updated [18:45] ? [18:45] although I see 15 review requests [18:45] I don't understand how that is a disagreement with my position :-) [18:48] arguably, if we can't staff our current processes, something is broken, and new processes may help. Then again, just "doing something" isn't the cure [18:48] well the new process in this case is basically just a combined archive + backports queue [18:49] for some reason people want to review these packages but not those rotting in revu [18:50] because it's new and shiny? :) [18:50] and they get to sit on a board [18:51] clearly we aren't making MOTU sexy enough. (or maybe we are just whining) [18:52] poor old sad motu :( [18:53] * Laney curls up on it [18:53] poor Laney :) [18:54] * Laney gets in between ajmitch's legs [18:54] uh [18:54] * Elbrus bets it is way too late to have any change in getting bug 871332 fixed (is not a high-impact bug, just very annoying that I will get the bug reports) [18:54] hahahaha [18:54] Launchpad bug 871332 in winff (Ubuntu) "[oneiric] presets shipped with winff should be updated to match ffmpeg in oneiric" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/871332 [18:55] i didn't mean that to sound sexy [18:55] * ajmitch goes back into hiding [18:55] i wanted to be a cat :( [18:55] oh god right that is it i am never speakig again BYE [18:55] Laney: actually probably far simpler than that. ARB is trying to recruit. MOTU is twiddling its thumbs [18:55] should I still file the debdiff to fix it? (Nearly done). [18:57] that is true [18:58] Elbrus: we can get it in if you're quick with the debdiff [19:00] uploading now [19:00] attached [19:01] Laney, that would be great. [19:01] * Elbrus is glad he is asking ;) [19:01] Laney: I suspect that Debian will be gaining some new users soon. The ones that like the idea of an actual release. [19:03] at least that is one thing I can be thankful for MOTU for. Making me appreciate the release, and Debian even more. [19:03] geser: dmb? [19:05] Elbrus: where did you get the patch from? why does a soname bump imply these changes? [19:07] I made the patch (as part of my help to upstream) [19:07] have they applied it there? [19:07] the soname changed the interface to ffmpeg [19:07] it is in the download section (will find the url) [19:08] http://code.google.com/p/winff/downloads/detail?name=presets-libavcodec53-v1.xml.gz&can=2&q= [19:08] that is where I base the debian and ubuntu presets on in the package [19:08] I don't use it as is because libaac is not supported by default in ubuntu and debian [19:09] and the diff between ubuntu and debian was because long time debian didn't have the libavcodec-extra-xx package (but now they do [19:09] ) [19:10] next debian package will have one preset file for both debian and ubuntu, exactly containing the presets as they are now in the debdiff [19:11] nice [19:11] but if it was slightly possible I wanted to have these changes in Oneiric [19:11] so decided to do that first now [19:11] * Elbrus will probably create the new debian package tonight or on wednesday. [19:12] Laney: do you want me to add the above expaination to the bug report? [19:12] no that's fine [19:12] i am in a meeting now, maybe someone else can upload it [19:15] ScottK: you don't agree with the recent suggestions then? :) [19:15] ajmitch: No, but I don't find them suprising. [19:17] I'm surprised that there'd be this push to use extras.u.c instead of universe for far more applications [19:19] It's completely the opposite thing from making sense. [19:20] "Oh, there's not enough people to review new packages and many of the existing packages are crap" [19:20] it also won't scale at all with the current processes for the ARB [19:21] "Hey, we can fix that by creating an entirely new process to allow more crap in after more detailed review." [19:21] it's more like moving the piles of crap from one heap to another [19:21] No, the rules are relaxed, so it's actually inviting increasing levels of crap. [19:22] at a cost of more review time, and more pain on the part of packagers & reviewers [19:22] * ajmitch really wishes he could log in to his work desktop sometime today [19:22] Like I said: It does the opposite of solving any actual problems. [19:22] this laptop keyboard is annoying [19:25] one mitigating factor to cut down on the crap levels is that packages in extras.ubuntu.com don't get carried over from one release to another [19:25] that's also something that increases reviewing time when it comes to the next version [19:26] ajmitch: not everything needs an update every 6 months [19:26] the extras repository never made much sense to me, I don't see how it really helps Ubuntu or the developers [19:26] ajmitch: whats wrong with your work machine ? [19:26] lifeless: thrashing [19:26] jbicha: it was pitched as something for apps that didn't have a lifespan beyond a few months [19:27] ajmitch: \o/ [19:27] lifeless: I can get as far as connecting & getting the host key, but ssh is hanging after that [19:27] * ajmitch needs more than 8GB of RAM :) [19:27] ScottK: well, volunteer motivation isn't man-hours that can be moved around by managers. People feel more or less motivated to work on projects. And providing an interesting project can draw people. [19:28] ajmitch: thats tricky to get w/out server hardware [19:28] ajmitch: I *just* managed 16GB for my dev workstation [19:28] tumbleweed: True, which is another reason moving stuff to extras doesn't make sense. [19:28] lifeless: nah, you can get laptops with 16GB of RAM now, it's becoming more common in workstations [19:28] :) [19:29] ajmitch: laptops w/16? I haven't seen that (in the x201 space that is :P) [19:29] micahg: not having a package carry over from one release to the next because of lack of reviewer time, even if the package doesn't change, doesn't feel good [19:29] lifeless: system76 :) [19:29] micahg: I think it was pitched by people who think 22 crap versions of solitaire is why Android is successful. [19:29] ajmitch: the latest from intel will do 32GB tops in the desktop range [19:29] lifeless: it was either zareason or system76 that had one like that [19:29] or by photobomb's rapid release cycle where the dev doesn't want to support old versions [19:30] ajmitch: and to do that you need some crazy arse hard to get dimms [19:30] ajmitch: some stuff just works, I like Debian's policy of at least one upload per cycle (2 yrs), some stuff doesn't really need more than that [19:31] I really like submitting to Debian first, it was confusing and frightening at first to figure out who to talk to, to get my app reviewed [19:31] but it seems a better process than revu or especially the extras idea [19:31] yeah, debian-mentors is *way* more active than revu [19:32] micahg: at the moment each arb submission needs a code review & then a majority vote from arb members [19:36] * ajmitch has to note that the requirement for /opt/extras.ubuntu.com is a bit of a pain to get right [19:36] yeah I don't really get the point of that [19:37] I suppose it makes reviewing easier, though [19:37] hrm, how does one get a wiki page on help.ubuntu.com renamed? [19:37] I haven't seen one submission get it right first try [19:38] it's meant so that there won't be a conflict with anything shipped by the distribution [19:38] but what it means is that there's some hackery to work in [19:38] SpamapS: log in [19:39] * tumbleweed thinks I got quite close on the first try, but I cheated by being an ubuntu developer :P [19:39] & yours was dead simple [19:40] that too, although I had to bundle a library [19:40] :O [19:40] * ajmitch watches Laney wince [19:40] With enough automated QA testing we could have automated removals and allow anyone to upload and eliminate the requirement for distro developers completely. [19:41] sounds great, then we could all just relax [19:41] bwaha [19:41] ScottK: stop scaring us [19:42] lifeless: am logged in, Rename is greyed out [19:42] tumbleweed: Please plan for this at the next UDS. Sorry I won't be there to help. [19:42] SpamapS: odd [19:42] in Soviet Russia, Ubuntu packages you! [19:42] ScottK: plan an ARB discussion? [19:42] SpamapS: did you logout and in again ? (per the moin openid fail) ? [19:42] UDS can happen without ScottK? [19:42] tumbleweed: No, the automatic one. [19:43] aah, automated removals sounds useful. Right now, our QA lags behind debian, badly [19:43] SpamapS: h.u.c is a separate wiki from w.u.c, so you may have limited permissions. I think you need to docs team person like jbicha. [19:43] I don't even have permissions for the wiki yet, maybe I should ask though... [19:43] jbicha: If you don't, you know people who do ... [19:43] SpamapS: you might be able to just create a new page and change the old one into just a redirect [19:43] Ok, that makes sense [19:44] Need to rename https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Orchestra/JuJu to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Orchestra/Juju [19:44] Ok yeah I'll try that instead [19:49] ok, done w/ a redirect === yofel_ is now known as yofel [20:02] is there a documentation about the changes between debhelper 7 and 8 ? [20:04] c_korn: man debhelper? [20:06] yeah, I know this. but maybe changes regarding the new fance options in debian/rules for example? [20:21] Elbrus: your debdiff looks reasonable, I'll sponsor it [20:27] tumbleweed: great [20:28] there we go, got my meeting duties out of the way in record time [20:34] * Elbrus is going to bed with a good feeling [20:40] dang, I wanted to ask him if he was a climber [20:42] ScottK: talking of automated removals. I did something about monitoring merge age: http://corelli.tumbleweed.org.za/ubuntu-qa/oldmerges/ [20:43] (hacked up ages ago, but never got around to running it. It also hammers lp rather hard :/ ) [20:43] sorting by the superseded column is an interesting read [20:43] yeah, that's the main aim [20:44] * Laney nmued hp-ppd recently [20:45] * ajmitch looks at gallary2 in debian & sees 4 RC bugs [20:45] poor poor webapps [20:45] not that it's in unstable any more [20:45] s/unstable/stable/ [20:45] I thought it was just removed from testing [20:45] & testing [20:46] since we get all the cruft from unstable, we get these wonderful packages [20:46] ScottK: what kind of koolaid have you been drinking today? ;-) [20:47] micahg: thanks [20:48] Laney: well, next time, we'll do a precise sync from testing [20:48] which also means we should look at what debian has currently removed from testing [20:49] yep [20:49] i imagine the normal process-removals script can/will be tweaked [20:51] maybe s/imagine/hope/ :-) [20:52] which means parsing all the debian release team's hint files... [20:52] milli: It's more likely I was being sarcastic. [20:53] ScottK: ;-) [20:54] tumbleweed: It would have been nice to have this before now ... Definitely something to attend to for precise QA. [20:55] reasons aren't readily available indeed, but we can do it on a best-effort basis [20:55] why is jython in main? oO [20:55] ScottK: sorry, had it a month ago :( [20:55] please get that on some kind of QA index [20:55] * tumbleweed gets the feeling he needs to get into an ubuntuwire team [20:56] tumbleweed: should it be easier now as LP has proper published state for Debian? [20:56] tumbleweed: what do you need & where? [20:56] * ScottK points tumbleweed at #ubuntuwire .... [20:56] also the FTBFS graphs that you've got [20:58] * tumbleweed moved the conversation to #ubuntuwire [20:59] * Laney entrusts [21:21] can we have a report for "packages in universe not in debian with bugs with severity >= high"? [21:23] Laney: patches welcome ;) [21:23] it shouldn't be too hard, actually [21:28] quite [21:30] if lp bugs were in UDD, that'd be so easy... === jpds_ is now known as jpds === kentb is now known as kentb-afk [23:11] Guys, I added a patch to python-distutils-extra for auto detection of gobject-introspection modules. Anyone interested in testing?? [23:12] You should probably talk to pitti when he's around. [23:13] He can usually be found on #ubuntu-devel. [23:14] Thanks ScottK, actually I looked for him but he was not around :) Anyways, need to sleep. Good Night all!