[00:06]  * wrst_ peeks in at himself
[00:07] <wrst_> Unit193: so I have this little machine and I don't know what it is but I'm trying to get linux to run on it
[00:07] <Unit193> How'd I get this? ;)
[00:07] <Unit193> Linux == arch?
[00:07] <wrst_> ha ha well thought you might know what I need to do
[00:08] <wrst_> Unit193: no i started trying to get ubuntu server on it, it has a VIA chip
[00:08] <wrst_> it didn't like ubuntu server, i'm trying to install arch right now, and it doesn't seem to like it either but i'm going through with it
[00:09] <wrst_> but as you can tell Unit193  i have gotten to a point in the install i could ssh out so that is getting better :)
[00:14] <Unit193> This way you can check logs and see what's up :D
[00:15] <Unit193> 2 VMs. Yep, this'll die :P
[00:16] <wrst_> :)
[00:16] <wrst_> hmm this is a very very slow machine i am working on...
[00:17] <Unit193> CPU; RAM?
[00:17] <wrst_> i get lots of cryptic errors with lots of numbers :)
[00:20] <wrst_> i'm thinking possibly some bad memory or something
[00:20] <Unit193> Got a few days? Memtest it :P
[00:21] <wrst_> yeah i'm curious what memory it has in it probably quicker to just swap it out and see
[00:22] <wrst_> I don't know on the cpu and ram i know its via of some sort
[00:22] <wrst_> all these errors have ran arch's curses menu up to where I can't see it :|
[00:23] <wrst_> whew there it is :)
[00:25] <cyberanger> wrst_: cryptic errors with lots of numbers, when did you start working for the "No Such Agency"
[00:25] <wrst_> ha ha cyberanger
[00:25]  * wrst_ reboots!
[00:27] <wrst> ok so grub hates this ghing
[00:27] <wrst> *thing
[00:27] <wrst> grub, grub 2... i think i will try lilo never used it!
[00:35] <binarymutant> lilo is awesome
[00:35] <binarymutant> old school but still in development
[00:37] <wrst> binarymutant: have no clue how to use it, but tried ubuntu server, arhc, now have an ubuntu minimal cd in and the problem is always with grub
[00:37] <wrst> in grub 2 the rescue prompt didn't work correctly
[00:37] <binarymutant> what's the grub problem?
[00:38] <binarymutant> directx + wine is making me angry
[00:39] <wrst> i don't really know binarymutant :)
[00:40] <wrst> hmm direct x why oh why... how i hate you direct x
[00:40] <binarymutant> wrst: how do you know there's a problem?
[00:42] <binarymutant> wrst: try a different kernel version
[00:44] <binarymutant> although if it doesn't boot any kernel that won't help...
[00:45] <binarymutant> if it kernel panics it's the kernel not the bootloader, if it doesn't even get to try and load the kernel that it's grub
[00:46] <binarymutant> :/
[00:50] <binarymutant> anyone try MS games in virtualbox?
[01:08] <wrst> binarymutant: yeah it doesn't get to the kernel and tried everything from ubuntu 8.04 to  arch running kernel 3.0
[01:09] <wrst> binarymutant: i'm not much of a gamer never tried it?
[01:13] <binarymutant> meh I gave up on AoE, I don't have the space for a Windows image, and can't get directx and wine to play well
[01:14] <binarymutant> wrst: that's strange, is grub on your mbr/
[01:15] <wrst> yes supposed to be :)
[01:15] <wrst> i'm thinking its some hardware weirdness of some sort this is an odd little thing i bought from linuxman410 a year or so ago he couldn't get anything to run on it so thought I would try
[01:15] <Unit193> binarymutant: I had it working a while ago on 6.10 (I think it was)
[01:19] <binarymutant> that's really strange o_0
[02:24] <wrst> woot got it to working!
[02:34] <binarymutant> woot woot
[02:39] <wrst> hmm but kernel panics!!! woot woot :)
[02:59] <netritious> back
[03:00] <netritious> here's to twelve years of marriage !
[03:00]  * netritious raises glass
[03:00] <wrst> awesome netritious
[03:00] <wrst> congrats
[03:00]  * netritious takes a drink
[03:00] <netritious> thanks wrst
[03:00] <netritious> now back to debian :D
[03:01] <wrst> ha ha what are you doing with debian netritious?
[03:01] <netritious> wrst: experimenting
[03:01] <netritious> researching
[03:01] <netritious> trying to see just how diff it is to ubuntu
[03:02] <wrst> netritious: i'm betting for what you do it won't get in the way
[03:03] <netritious> so far it seems leaner and a bit less crazy about eclectic (some might say proprietary) dependencies
[03:03] <wrst> how so ?
[03:03] <netritious> like in ubuntu if you apt-get remove openoffice.org/* then it will remove ubuntu-desktop, which "supposedly" (according to documentation) screws up version upgrades
[03:04] <netritious> not openoffice.org, but evolutions
[03:04] <netritious> *evolution
[03:04] <wrst> why in the world does it remove ubuntu-desktop????
[03:04] <netritious> and now in 11.10 gwibber will cause the same effect
[03:04] <wrst> because the calendar depends on it?
[03:05] <netritious> maybe, but I am alsmot certain it has something to do with couchdb
[03:05] <wrst> ok i have to ask what is couchdb?
[03:05] <netritious> just the met package is removed though (ubuntu-desktop) not it's dependencies
[03:05] <netritious> *meta
[03:06] <netritious> used for ubuntu-one apparently
[03:06] <Unit193> It's fine to remove that package, it's just for getting what you need on initial install
[03:07] <wrst> ahh gotcha
[03:07] <Unit193> I have also done an upgrade without it, but it's NOT recommended (Also did it over SSH, another thing not recommended :P )
[03:07] <wrst> netritious: tried a minimal install of ubuntu?
[03:07] <netritious> which package Unit193?
[03:07] <Unit193> metapackage
[03:07] <netritious> wrst: I can install ubuntu probably 50 diff ways now :)
[03:08] <wrst> ha ha gotcha but if you install the stock desktop...
[03:08] <netritious> minimal and minimal virtual are my favs for ubuntu
[03:08] <netritious> min-virt gives me a 410-450mb install
[03:08] <wrst> that's a very minimal install :)
[03:08] <netritious> min comes in around 800mb
[03:09] <wrst> i think arch installs at 5-600
[03:09] <netritious> ah but there are caveats
[03:09] <Unit193> wrst: Try mini+lubuntu-core
[03:09] <netritious> to min-virt
[03:09] <wrst> Unit193: i'm happy where i am at on the destkop don't have to worry about junk
[03:12] <netritious> Unit193: about the unbuntu-desktop meta-package...according to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CommonQuestions ...
[03:12] <netritious> It is technically just fine to remove a meta-package, if required, and this shouldn't necessarily cause any problems. However, it is strongly recommended that you reinstall that package if you decide to manually upgrade to another version of Ubuntu. The package manager requires those packages to be installed for it to successfully perform the upgrade.
[03:12] <netritious> who is going to remember that
[03:13] <Unit193> Well, it worked for me, but I am not sure I would have a second go with it :P
[03:15] <netritious> I am just saying I would rather avoid the issue altogether by using a distro that doesn't have that issue with that particular meta-package
[03:15] <netritious> I have only bothered upgrading a desktop version maybe twice and it was a horrible experience
[03:16] <netritious> reminded me of upgrading windows
[03:16] <netritious> *server* though I have upgraded a few times without issue
[03:17] <wrst> netritious: i have never had an issue with the server, and the desktop goes ok for me when I have, but I don't tweak much
[03:17] <cyberanger> netritious: unfortunately for the ubuntu desktop, that is an accurate comparison of the headaches
[03:17] <cyberanger> and it's only getting worse
[03:17] <netritious> wrst: I need to fit a working OS on a 4GB flash drive...using debian :D
[03:18] <netritious> *compact flash drive
[03:18] <cyberanger> netritious: that's not an issue
[03:18] <cyberanger> live or can it be installed
[03:18] <cyberanger> to the flash drive
[03:19] <netritious> cyberanger: yep...you remember exodus_ms when he upgraded from intrepid to karmic? the upgrade from grub to grub2 *and* removal of hal *and* from ext3 to ext4? crazy stuff happened
[03:19] <netritious> cyberanger: I got it covered
[03:19] <netritious> working atm just fine
[03:19] <netritious> 1.4GB with fully funtional desktop
[03:20] <cyberanger> netritious: that was actually minor in some ways too, just the dependencies were too crazy
[03:20] <cyberanger> and 1.4GB for a bare system, that's heavy
[03:21] <netritious> cyberanger: instead of digging into the guts of it all I just scraped the top
[03:21] <netritious> with debians default "Graphical Desktop" and "System Utilities" I was coming in at 2.5GB
[03:22] <cyberanger> netritious: I just start small & build up, 500MB is the low record (and I could technically go lower, but I'd be missing stuff I like too much, like vlc & conky)
[03:22] <netritious> so I've shaved a gig, and it is only a 5 step ordeal post install
[03:22] <netritious> easy enough to remember
[03:22] <netritious> cyberanger: same here
[03:22] <binarymutant> ? /me reads up
[03:24] <binarymutant> saved a gig with debian, I believe it
[03:26] <netritious> one thing that tripped me up with gnome on debian at first was the use of gksu vs gksudo
[03:26] <cyberanger> netritious: thing is, with ubuntu as a base, really didn't save any
[03:26] <netritious> after searching for hours I finally found gksu-properties and solved that issue
[03:26] <cyberanger> it's packages ubuntu has debian leaves out (including whois even) that I reinstall
[03:26] <binarymutant> netritious: still using gnome?
[03:26] <binarymutant> shave another gig by ditching it
[03:27] <cyberanger> save 200MB somewhere, but after installing tons of stuff over time, I get the same 1GB in the end (including fatter config files, photos, some music)
[03:27] <netritious> binarymutant: I don't run a desktop by default, meaning, when the system boots it's CLI
[03:27] <binarymutant> ah
[03:27] <netritious> I have to sudo start gdm
[03:27] <binarymutant> gdm is big too
[03:27] <binarymutant> gdm + deps
[03:27] <netritious> and now on 11.10 it's sudo start lightdm
[03:27] <netritious> yeah it is
[03:28] <binarymutant> anyone try cdm yet? I couldn't get it to work
[03:28] <netritious> I just change the upstart script to start gdm in runlevel 3
[03:28] <binarymutant> <- xdm right now
[03:29] <netritious> I use gnome or nothing atm...i mean, if I use a desktop it's gnome, otherwise it's CLI for me
[03:30] <binarymutant> if you like floating windows, *box is much smaller than gnome
[03:30] <binarymutant> and tiling window managers are even smaller :D
[03:30] <netritious> I've tried lxde and fluxbox...they were ok
[03:30] <binarymutant> fluxbox ya
[03:30] <binarymutant> and lxde uses openbox
[03:31] <binarymutant> and binarymutant uses awesomewm
[03:31] <netritious> :)
[03:32]  * wrst likes to have plenty of things to pointy pointy, clicky clicky
[03:32] <binarymutant> keyboard is where it's at, laptop mice hurt
[03:32] <binarymutant> crampy
[03:34] <netritious> I like computers that run something and that I can interact with...i am not tooo picky about cli vs windows or linux vs unix or gnome vs *...i use mouse at CLI to
[03:34] <netritious> trying to remember the package name
[03:34] <binarymutant> ah ya
[03:34] <netritious> but MAN did that come in handy
[03:34] <binarymutant> thinkstrain
[03:34] <netritious> having a mouse at console I mean
[03:34] <binarymutant> ya
[03:35] <binarymutant> uh uh...
[03:35] <netritious> I still can't remember...it's something weird too
[03:35] <binarymutant> GPM!
[03:35] <binarymutant> <- had to google it
[03:36] <binarymutant> gpm with aptitude | mc | whatever is awwesome
[03:37] <netritious> yep that's it!
[03:38] <netritious> was googling too :D
[03:40] <binarymutant> lol
[03:41] <binarymutant> the google generation
[03:41] <cyberanger> netritious: tried slim yet?
[03:42] <cyberanger> I use openbox raw (no lxde) but rarely do I fireup xorg to use it
[03:43] <netritious> cyberanger: sure haven't
[03:44] <cyberanger> netritious: simple login manager is about as slim as it gets
[03:44] <cyberanger> short of starting out in a cli and running xorg via startx
[03:45] <binarymutant> cdm
[03:45] <binarymutant> http://cdm.ghost1227.com/
[03:49] <netritious> binarymutant: neato
[03:50] <netritious> js is cool
[03:51] <binarymutant> ya the site is nice
[03:51] <binarymutant> the dm looks nice too
[03:58] <netritious> trying to decide what browser to install...chromium or iceweasel..isn't iceweasel ff in disguise?
[03:59] <binarymutant> yes
[03:59] <binarymutant> ff without trademarks
[03:59] <netritious> right..debian seems to be pretty serious about that
[04:00] <binarymutant> yeah
[04:00] <binarymutant> dfsg, free all the way
[04:01] <netritious> I can dig that
[04:02] <cyberanger> netritious: iceweasel
[04:11] <binarymutant> luakit :D
[04:11] <binarymutant> -- crashes all the time with flash --
[04:56] <cyberanger> binarymutant: that's flash for ya
[04:56] <Unit193> I'm still thinking of doing a server and it sounds like I'm going with Stable :P
[04:58] <netritious> cya guys..was fun
[04:59]  * Unit193 wonders if he would get shot for posting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp6uEIAEy9g
[04:59] <binarymutant> ya i wish I had a cd now
[04:59] <binarymutant> lol Unit193
[05:00] <binarymutant> I stopped it, knowing exactly how long it would go on
[14:12] <vychune> johnhaitas: How the frak did you find me on FB? lol
[14:12] <vychune> oh good morning everyone
[14:22] <vychune> o/
[14:22] <average_guy> Good morning gentleman
[14:22] <vychune> how ya doing
[14:23] <average_guy> Hi vychune, I am doing great.  How are you?
[14:23] <average_guy> anything exciting going on?
[14:24] <vychune> im good, despite my dialup dilemmea.
[14:25] <average_guy> I was just noticing that you are on dial-up
[14:25] <average_guy> that's gotta suk
[14:26] <vychune> just finished watching Gordon Ramasy's F word. and speaking of F words.....
[14:26] <vychune> yes it F'n SUCKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
[14:26] <vychune> but it's free
[14:26] <vychune> no ads
[14:26] <average_guy> Thats pretty cool I guess.  I still don't think I could do it
[14:27] <average_guy> I didn't even kno ppl still offer it
[14:27] <vychune> i'm desparate
[14:27]  * vychune is unemployed and living with Mom
[14:27] <vychune> Netzero
[14:28] <vychune> people PC
[14:28] <vychune> AOL
[14:28] <average_guy> Oh, I feel ya there. I've been unemployed more then a year
[14:28] <vychune> DAMN
[14:29] <average_guy> I go to McDonalds or Starbucks with the laptop in times of desperation
[14:29] <vychune> that bites
[14:29] <vychune> or bytes lol
[14:29] <average_guy> nice
[14:29] <average_guy> luckly the wife still works
[14:29] <vychune> what part of TN are in from?
[14:29] <vychune> good good
[14:29] <average_guy> I'm in knoxville
[14:30] <average_guy> yu?
[14:30] <vychune> Memphis empathsis
[14:30] <average_guy> Everyone here seems to be out that wayt
[14:31] <vychune> which just got voted one of the poorest and most dangerous cities in the US
[14:31] <vychune> hmm yeah kinda
[14:31] <average_guy> Idk, I feel like while everyone has been whining, the economy has been slowly turning the corner
[14:32] <vychune> define turning the corner
[14:32] <average_guy> I got 2 call for $21hr+ yesterday alone
[14:32] <vychune> cool
[14:32] <average_guy> the phone is starting to ring again
[14:33] <average_guy> I have a felony so most good jobs don't work out
[14:33] <vychune> Oh yeah
[14:33] <average_guy> but it is good that ppl are at least hiring
[14:34] <vychune> right
[14:34] <vychune> Felony? ouch
[14:34] <vychune> Hack the gov't? lol
[14:34] <vychune> sorry bad joke
[14:35] <average_guy> it's coo
[14:36] <vychune> I started going back to my chruch and a family business i used to work for is really needing me back in the fold so i'll be back in the workforce soon
[14:36] <average_guy> Awesome!  I wish you luck
[14:38] <vychune> thank you
[14:40] <vychune> cosmicpizza? nice nick
[14:40] <cosmicpizza> hi there
[14:41] <vychune> o/
[14:41] <cosmicpizza> thx
[14:42] <vychune> average_guy: i'm really hating my dialup right now, because the top of this picture i want to see really look cool lol
[14:43] <average_guy> Yeah, I get frustrated just thinking about dial-up
[14:43] <average_guy> you can't do graphics
[14:44] <vychune> then there's the iorc lag
[14:45] <vychune> *irc
[14:46] <average_guy> sooo.. no wireless capability?
[14:48] <vychune> nope
[14:49] <average_guy> I can't live without
[14:50] <vychune> its nerveracking
[14:51] <average_guy> I bet.  An exersize in patience
[14:53] <vychune> good thing i stockpile that lol
[14:54] <average_guy> Ahh, no kids I take it..
[14:54] <average_guy> Thats where all mine goes
[14:57]  * vychune just turned twenty
[14:57] <vychune> i miss my teen years
[14:58] <average_guy> ?
[14:58] <average_guy> they not THAT far gone
[14:58] <vychune> tell that to my Mother
[14:59] <average_guy> Haha
[14:59] <vychune> Ms. "my job is done....You're Eighteen"
[14:59] <average_guy> Hey you're stayin there.. at least you have a roof
[15:00] <vychune> WHO SAID YOU CAN RETIRE FROM BEING A PARENT?!?!?!?!?!
[15:00] <average_guy> My Mom would never let me move back
[15:00] <vychune> well yeah
[15:01] <vychune> mine wouldnt eiether
[15:01] <vychune> i just havent gotten out yet
[15:01] <average_guy> Ahh..
[15:01] <vychune> speaking of getting out............
[15:01] <average_guy> I had to join the Army at 18  I was NOT allowed to stay at home
[15:02] <vychune> i'm gonna walk to the library now i cant take much more of this
[15:02] <average_guy> don't blame ya
[15:02] <vychune> they tried to get mer to do that
[15:03] <vychune> brb
[15:54] <wrst> cyberanger: got a very basic arch install just under 400MB
[16:01] <wrst> ha but it failed
[16:47] <vychune> i'm backkkk
[16:47] <vychune> ahhh broadband lol
[16:56] <vychune> average_guy: still here?
[16:59] <cyberanger> wrst: failed and did it have all the tools you wanted, or were you about to add 100MB
[17:00] <cyberanger> and not sure failed should count
[17:03] <average_guy> Hey vychune, better now?
[17:04] <vychune> YESSSSSSSSSSSSS
[17:04] <vychune> broadband baby
[17:05] <wrst> cyberanger: well installed but grub failed, on this machine that i got from linuxman410
[17:05] <wrst> i had ubuntu booting and running but kernel panics, i had to put a jumper on the hard drive, i think grub2 works better so trying ubuntu again then going to try debian
[17:06] <vychune> how is my old buddy linuxman410?
[17:08] <wrst> vychune: haven't heard from him in a while i'm looking forward to telling him i finally got that box atleast to booting
[17:09] <vychune> i think the one he gave me will be going to #midsouthmakers
[17:09] <wrst> cool vychune
[17:10] <vychune> not cool
[17:10] <vychune> it's going to the scarp room
[17:10] <vychune> *scrap
[17:11] <vychune> the hard from it is burning up
[17:11] <vychune> literally
[17:18] <vychune> ok i got three minutes till i have to got off so gotta go
[17:45] <vychune> binarymutant: sup dude?
[18:02] <binarymutant> asup homie
[18:03] <wrst> binarymutant: you know that machine i was messing with last night, a second install seemed to get it going i didn't install the server kernel
[18:04] <binarymutant> that's good news
[18:04] <binarymutant> so it was the kernel?
[18:05] <wrst> i don't know binarymutant, arch didn't work at all on it, which is weird
[18:06] <wrst> i had to put a jumper on the hard drive to get grub to work, its IDE so i'm not for sure but right now it seems good
[18:06] <wrst> now to figure out what I'm going to do with it!
[18:06] <binarymutant> ah it was the jumper
[18:06] <binarymutant> master|slave|cable select
[18:06] <wrst> yes that was the grub issue i'm not for sure what the kernel panic issue was
[18:07] <binarymutant> probably the jumper too, who knows
[18:07] <binarymutant> that would have tripped me up forever
[18:07] <vychune> bad ISO?
[18:07] <wrst> well got that after the jumper, but installed before the jumper
[18:07] <wrst> binarymutant: it was a shot in the dark for me :)
[18:07] <wrst> vychune: net install trying to keep it as small as possible, only have a 10GB hard drive
[18:08] <vychune> oh ok
[18:08] <wrst> i like having music out in the garage and have the wifes old G3 macbook out there now, thinking of hooking it up to speakers and see if i can get some type of control to remote play music
[18:08] <wrst> and of course wireless of some type
[18:09] <binarymutant> mpd
[18:09] <binarymutant> mpd+lirc=greatness
[18:09] <wrst> hmm binarymutant, i shall google that :)
[18:10] <wrst> oh wow binarymutant cool i may give that a try
[18:10] <binarymutant> gtg into town bbl
[18:10] <wrst> gotta get a usb wireless that works and all that setup i think cyberanger uses wicd-curses for that
[18:10] <wrst> thanks for the hint binarymutant!
[18:10] <binarymutant> np
[18:11] <wrst> uh oh spoke too soon, we have panic and I think its the kernel screaming
[18:12] <wrst> i think the little via processor just can't handle much and by much i mean apt
[18:15] <vychune> rolling out guys
[18:54] <cyberanger> wrst: yep, wicd instead of network-manager
[18:56] <cyberanger> wrst: Belkin Components F5D7050 Wireless G Adapter v4000 [Zydas ZD1211B]
[18:57] <cyberanger> wrst: that card has mutiple chipsets, I can vouch for this and another I forget what that was
[18:57] <cyberanger> never heard of that card with an annoying non-linux chipset
[19:47] <wrst> cool cyberanger if i get this thing stable i may get that
[19:48]  * wrst thinks he may have a heating issue
[19:48] <cyberanger> wrst: that card has only gotten cheaper, gotten slightly harder to find
[19:49] <cyberanger> there are better cards, but you know me, I go overboard on that
[19:49] <cyberanger> stuff that's got multimile range
[19:49] <wrst> well i just want one that works really
[19:49] <wrst> and easily
[19:50] <cyberanger> this card does, minimal issues, and easy
[19:50] <wrst> ok cyberanger i'm wondering how to cool a fanless machine :)
[19:50] <wrst> with no hope of a fan!
[19:51] <cyberanger> (it's not too sensitive, that's it's main issue, if your on fringe of your signal, this card is one of the first to fail to get it)
[19:51] <cyberanger> wrst: check the airflow, look for dust & debris
[19:51] <wrst> cyberanger: this is completely enclosed device, there is no airflow
[19:51] <cyberanger> it's still got airflow, just not fan assisted
[19:51] <cyberanger> I doubt that, your saying it's airtight
[19:51] <wrst> no air flow it has aluminun case that is supposed to disperse the heat
[19:52] <wrst> cyberanger: yep air tight, well not air tight but for practical purposes air tight
[19:52] <wrst> air tight like a metal box bolted together is air tight
[19:52] <cyberanger> can you open it and check for any debris
[19:52] <wrst> yes I have its clean
[19:53] <cyberanger> nothing out of place
[19:54] <wrst> not that I can tell i may have to fabricate something with a fan
[19:54] <wrst> nope not heat it locked up as quick as i started it :)
[19:54] <cyberanger> overclocked any?
[19:54] <cyberanger> ha, oh boy
[19:54] <wrst> cyberanger: its got a via chip any ideas on that beast?
[19:55] <cyberanger> which via chip, there are a few
[19:56] <cyberanger> oh, you mean processer
[19:56] <wrst> yes
[19:56] <wrst> processor.
[19:56] <wrst> let me hard reboot this baby again :)
[19:57] <cyberanger> lilo and arch currently?
[19:58] <wrst> no grub and ubuntu :)
[19:58] <wrst> how i wanted it to start with actually
[20:02] <wrst> cyberanger: this is the cpuinfo: http://pastebin.com/AQpamuNi
[20:02] <wrst> and lspci: http://pastebin.com/2fRAqxLN
[20:02] <cyberanger> wrst: when you say ubuntu, you mean  normal ubuntu desktop, what release
[20:03] <wrst> i used the 11.10 minimal install cyberanger
[20:03]  * cyberanger pulls up pastebin links with curl, take that gui
[20:03] <cyberanger> wrst: but for a desktop install, or did you tell it to do something different
[20:03] <cyberanger> like I do for crunchbang like results
[20:04] <wrst> ok cyberanger i see a debian install that looks like using 486 worked and 686 kernel may not have
[20:04] <wrst> cyberanger: no just bare bones all i wanted was cli
[20:05] <wrst> cyberanger: about to try debian on it
[20:06] <cyberanger> wrst: was thinking kernel arch would help, but was trying to verify
[20:06] <cyberanger> try it, it was the same route I was thinking too
[20:07] <cyberanger> also, that could explain bootloader issues a little
[20:09] <wrst> what debian should i use cyberanger?
[20:19] <cyberanger> wrst: testing
[20:20] <wrst> ok meant which architecture :)
[20:20] <wrst> i386?
[20:21] <cyberanger> 486
[20:21] <cyberanger> so yeah
[20:22] <wrst> ok i'm installing, but hey i can isntall and boot on this that's more than me and linuxman410 could do for a couple years :)
[20:24] <cyberanger> dunno if he was trying debian though
[20:25] <wrst> never could get it to boot hard drive had to have a jumper
[20:27] <binarymutant> via ? wowza
[20:29] <binarymutant> I don't think I've ever seen Via architecture before
[20:30] <cyberanger> binarymutant: they're usually x86, but they're rare now
[20:30] <cyberanger> just not optimized for anything beyond 486
[20:31] <binarymutant> ah
[20:32] <cyberanger> ubuntu seems to be all 686-pae now
[20:32] <binarymutant> pae?
[20:32] <binarymutant> plug and enjoy?
[20:33] <cyberanger> physical address exteensions
[20:33] <binarymutant> never heard :/
[20:33] <cyberanger> some mobos don't support pae
[20:33] <binarymutant> wiki-ing it now
[20:34] <binarymutant> ack OS101 stuff :/
[20:34] <wrst> lets you get memory above 4GB i think is the big thing right?
[20:35] <binarymutant> in 1995? no ways
[20:36] <cyberanger> wrst: eh, probally the most known feature at least
[20:36] <binarymutant> ick I can't read that wiki page, operating systems 101 (page tables, chips, hardware, blah) is rough to me
[20:36] <wrst> yeah
[20:38] <binarymutant> too low level. Let's just call it "x86"
[20:40] <binarymutant> ubuntu-desktop is probably for i686 but ubuntu-standard can handle i486 still
[20:41] <cyberanger> binarymutant: i686 or i686-pae depending on what the installer detects
[20:41] <cyberanger> and the i486 seems broken, unstable or something
[20:43] <wrst> cyberanger: debian feels a lot better as I'm installing I went with debian stable figured the older the better in this case actually
[20:44] <cyberanger> wrst: no reason testing isn't an issue
[20:44] <cyberanger> and stable isn't too old yet
[20:44] <cyberanger> on par with natty or thereabouts
[20:49] <binarymutant> stable is old old
[20:49] <binarymutant> like maverick old
[20:49] <cyberanger> binarymutant: that's not too old though
[20:49] <binarymutant> too old for me :D
[20:49] <cyberanger> considering lucid is older as an lts
[20:50] <cyberanger> binarymutant: same here, i'm on debian testing
[20:50] <binarymutant> testing is old too :D
[20:50] <binarymutant> unstable is where it's at
[20:50] <cyberanger> sid?
[20:50] <cyberanger> yes
[20:50] <binarymutant> it=party
[20:50] <cyberanger> but for my router, I run testing
[20:50] <wrst> yea binarymutant its old but for this purpose I just want something that works :)
[20:50] <binarymutant> that makes sense, you don't want to update a router too often
[20:51] <wrst> well this isn't a router i don't know what it will be I just want it to run :)
[20:51] <binarymutant> lol
[20:51] <binarymutant> music server sounded good
[20:52] <wrst> yeah that's what i would like not really a server as much as a networked player
[20:52] <cyberanger> wrst: i'm with binarymutant on that, pianobar & vlc
[20:52] <cyberanger> that'd work
[20:52] <wrst> cyberanger: that's what I'm thinking
[20:53] <wrst> that's assuming the soundcard works :)
[20:53] <cyberanger> byobu, install a backup quassel-core on it too, jIC
[20:53] <cyberanger> wrst: what are the odds it doesn''t
[20:53] <wrst> oh with this machine pretty good but I can get a usb card for that also
[20:54] <cyberanger> (note, you may need to install alsa-utils & add yourself to the audio group via "sudo adduser wrst audio", logout & in, run alsamixer and unmute some items)
[20:57] <wrst> oh yes
[20:57] <wrst> cyberanger: i got heavily acquanted with that with arch
[20:57] <wrst> but now that gnome 3 uses pulse it all takes care of that but i kinda like setting it all up :)
[20:59] <cyberanger> and I don't like pulse for general use
[20:59]  * cyberanger really needs to get another hdd
[21:04] <wrst_debian> cyberanger: nice :)
[21:04] <binarymutant> run mpd on your file server and mpc on the old computer :D
[21:05] <wrst_debian> this has been by far the best running anything yet
[21:05] <binarymutant> debian ftw
[21:05]  * wrst_debian misses sudo
[21:05] <binarymutant> su
[21:05] <wrst_debian> binarymutant: i will probably install sudo old habits are hard to break
[21:05] <binarymutant> root is much cooler
[21:05] <wrst_debian> if this runs longer than 10 minutes
[21:06] <wrst_debian> binarymutant: i mess things up too easily!
[21:06] <binarymutant> sudo works too
[21:06] <binarymutant> I just like seeing the username root in my shell :D
[21:06] <cyberanger> binarymutant: sudo -i
[21:06] <wrst_debian> ha ha binarymutant, well the pc speaker works
[21:06] <wrst_debian> there you go cyberanger  :)
[21:06] <binarymutant> root:~
[21:07] <binarymutant> root:~$
[21:07] <wrst_debian> ok this is working smoother than anything else, actually darn smoothe I think this could work
[21:07]  * wrst_debian wonders what he could isntall/run to test things out?
[21:07] <cyberanger> wrst_debian: and no reason you could get it on testing with much difference
[21:08] <cyberanger> wrst_debian: pianobar
[21:08] <wrst_debian> ok cyberanger here goes...
[21:08] <wrst_debian> cyberanger: i'm guessing alsa and alsa-utils would be good also?
[21:09] <cyberanger> alsa-utils yep
[21:09] <cyberanger> wicd-curses too
[21:09] <wrst_debian> cyberanger: gotta get a card first I wish i could cram this pci card in it!
[21:10] <cyberanger> oh, right (duh)
[21:10] <cyberanger> no wire either?
[21:10] <wrst_debian> no not one that long :)
[21:10] <wrst_debian> ok cyberanger how do i run pianobar?
[21:11] <wrst_debian> oh easy :)
[21:11] <cyberanger> "pianobar"
[21:11] <cyberanger> then login to pandora
[21:11]  * wrst_debian has to find pandora username/pass
[21:11] <cyberanger> yep, easy peasy
[21:11]  * Unit193 hasn't fully been watching, but go pianobar
[21:11] <wrst> :)
[21:11] <binarymutant> pandora doesn't have too many artists, it repeats for me
[21:12] <cyberanger> binarymutant: some of that is configuration
[21:12] <binarymutant> I'd like to see a client do pandora, last.fm, and all the other streamyz
[21:12] <wrst> got it
[21:12] <wrst> now to try
[21:13] <cyberanger> it's found bands that are small time for me, but took alot of use & tweaking (and adding some small bands I knew of, such as finding jimmy hoffa which is small time arkansas still)
[21:13] <Unit193> binarymutant: I just want one for Grooveshark :P
[21:13] <binarymutant> Unit193: neverheard
[21:13] <binarymutant> to the google!
[21:13] <wrst_debian> protocol too old i need to upgrade libpiano :\
[21:13] <wrst_debian> cyberanger: do i dare change to testing? :)
[21:13] <cyberanger> wrst_debian: carefully, yes
[21:14] <cyberanger> wrst_debian: lemme grab a link for you
[21:14] <wrst_debian> you mean i can't just change the sources list and everything work just perfect? :) how dare them!
[21:15] <cyberanger> wrst: you can, just with more risk
[21:15]  * wrst returns to his laptop :)
[21:15] <binarymutant> Unit193: https://github.com/danopia/remora
[21:15] <wrst> yeah cyberanger this has been well challenging enough
[21:15] <wrst> i'm wondering about just trying to update that one librayr but that will probably lead to mayhem
[21:15] <cyberanger> easier to swap sources, upgrade your kernel, apt & bootloader (if needed)
[21:15] <cyberanger> then grab the rest
[21:16] <cyberanger> wrst: you can just do that, pianobar & libpianoo0
[21:16] <cyberanger> wrst: you can just do that, pianobar & libpiano0
[21:16] <cyberanger> the two you need
[21:16] <wrst> hmm that's a more tempting offer right at the moment
[21:18] <cyberanger> worst case, it breaks an already broken pianobar, and tells you another lib you need to update
[21:18] <cyberanger> but that's what I did first on ubuntu, then again on debian stable (so I could jam during the upgrade)
[21:18] <cyberanger> no hiccup
[21:19] <binarymutant> meh don't change from stable to testing just for one app
[21:19] <binarymutant> just download and compile pianobar
[21:20] <cyberanger> binarymutant: didn't say it was for one app
[21:21] <binarymutant> Unit193: groovewalrus looks good too
[21:21] <cyberanger> just that I updated it first
[21:21] <cyberanger> ouch wifi
[21:22] <binarymutant> sheesh
[21:22] <Unit193> I just don't want something with "Air":P
[21:23] <binarymutant> aha
[21:23] <binarymutant> first one used mplayer
[21:23] <binarymutant> mplayer and a fifo and curl I think
[21:25] <cyberanger> binarymutant: wifi
[21:25] <cyberanger> ?
[21:25] <binarymutant> wifi/
[21:25] <binarymutant> ?
[21:26] <cyberanger> binarymutant: never said it was one app, just the one app I started with (it was many apps)
[21:26] <cyberanger> and I was askinng about your connection issue there, wifi snafu
[21:26] <binarymutant> I thought you were trying to talk wrst into switching to testing for pianobar srry :/
[21:27] <wrst> well binarymutant I may just for the joy of it I know stable works now so I have a working option
[21:28] <cyberanger> binarymutant: that is one app, and was suggesting pulling it from testing (two packages)
[21:28] <cyberanger> but that's just the start of a list
[21:30] <cyberanger> hate how my laptop is pratically all live disc atm
[21:31] <wrst> cyberanger: well i just wen the testing route just have to download 64MB's
[21:31] <cyberanger> how much of stable did you install
[21:35] <wrst> barely any
[21:35] <wrst> just enough to get a command prompt
[21:35] <wrst> ssh was the only additional package and cups
[21:36] <wrst> no desktop no webserver or anything else
[21:36] <Unit193> Just added http://ninthfloor.org/stats
[21:37] <wrst> nice Unit193
[21:37] <Unit193> (I didn't do it)
[21:37] <cyberanger> wrst: why cups
[21:37] <cyberanger> wrst: and that explains the amount about right
[21:37] <binarymutant> oo pretty graphs
[21:37] <wrst> cyberanger: may use it for a little print server
[21:38] <wrst> its actually smaller than a print server device i had once
[21:38] <binarymutant> Unit193: what'd you use for the graphs?
[21:38] <cyberanger> wrst: ah
[21:38] <wrst> and may not use it but if not i can delete
[21:38] <wrst> just felt like i needed to check more than one thing :)
[21:39] <cyberanger> cups is nice, but I suggest use the webpage to configure, best way to setup cups I've found
[21:39] <binarymutant> Unit193: sorry didn't see the "I didn't do it"
[21:40] <wrst> cyberanger: oh yes that's the best way on a mac also
[21:40] <Unit193> binarymutant: munin: http://munin-monitoring.org/
[21:43] <wrst> ok binarymutant, cyberanger i understand why people use debian way over ubuntu especially on the server
[21:47] <cyberanger> yep
[21:48] <wrst> cyberanger: you saw my specs and debian is running near as quick as my ubuntu server on an atom
[21:48] <wrst> not that either are powerhouses
[21:48] <binarymutant> Unit193: ty
[21:50] <wrst> cyberanger: wish me luck i reboot now
[21:51] <wrst> nice... i think i survived
[21:52] <Unit193> binarymutant: Looking to add it?
[21:52] <binarymutant> nope :P
[21:52] <Unit193> wrst: I haven't been following, this is testing on a server?
[21:52] <wrst> yes Unit193
[21:52] <wrst> but libpiano is still too old and it was upgraded
[21:52] <binarymutant> Unit193: I used some graph stuff before for weblogs, but they didn't look that good, just seeing what they used
[21:53] <binarymutant> I think I was using graphiz
[21:53] <Unit193> wrst: I've been thinking of doing this, I should --mark-- this spot ;)
[21:54] <wrst> ok cool just installed it on ubuntu 11.10 that is cool stuff
[22:03] <Juzzy> what's new this releae?
[22:03] <Juzzy> se
[22:04] <binarymutant> what is new...
[22:04] <binarymutant> Juzzy: oneiric? or precise/
[22:04] <Juzzy> ??
[22:05] <binarymutant> oneiric just had version updates for me, nothing new new
[22:05] <Juzzy> ah
[22:05] <Juzzy> nothing super cool?
[22:05] <binarymutant> ya
[22:05] <Juzzy> from 10.04 to 11.10?
[22:05] <binarymutant> uhh..
[22:05] <Juzzy> or 10.10
[22:05] <binarymutant> idk :/
[22:05] <Juzzy> :/
[22:06] <binarymutant> 11.10
[22:07] <binarymutant> is what I'm on right now
[22:07] <binarymutant> 12.04 is next for me :D
[22:07] <Juzzy> heh
[22:07] <Juzzy> ubuntu desktops frustrate me to no end
[22:08] <binarymutant> why so?
[22:09] <binarymutant> err: how so?
[22:12] <binarymutant> ... :(
[22:20] <wrst_debian> still runnint... woot woot!
[22:22] <binarymutant> whoot
[22:22] <wrst_debian> yeah this is cool i need to decide what to do with this thing now !
[22:22] <wrst_debian> out here on my wife's old macbook in the garage
[22:22] <cyberanger> wrst_debian: too late to wish you luck
[22:23] <cyberanger> wrst_debian: and now you can see why I want openlp on debian
[22:23] <wrst_debian> cyberanger: working like a charm
[22:23]  * wrst_debian heads back inside
[22:24]  * Unit193 needs to get him on irssi...
[22:25]  * cyberanger needs to get Unit193 on  weechat
[22:25] <cyberanger> and get wrst off the quassel train
[22:25] <binarymutant> irssi4life
[22:25] <wrst> well cyberanger that will be hard to do :)
[22:26] <cyberanger> wrst: well, forgive me for trying anyhow
[22:27] <wrst> ha ha anytime cyberanger
[22:27] <wrst> i have a 686 kernel now inetersting to see how this works
[22:27] <cyberanger> binarymutant: that used to be my flavor of kool-aid too
[22:27] <binarymutant> cyberanger: what changed your mind about it?
[22:28] <Unit193> I would install quassel if it didn't have crazy depends
[22:28] <Unit193> (To attach to irssi proxy randomly, not to use fulltime)
[22:28] <cyberanger> wrst: can you see why I like the idea of openlp on debian now
[22:28] <wrst> yes it should work cyberanger?
[22:29] <cyberanger> wrst: I mean actually prefer it over ubuntu, and want it in debian's repo
[22:29] <cyberanger> which will actually get it in ubuntu's repo over time
[22:29] <wrst> cyberanger: yes that is the plan because if i'm not mistaken to make it into ubuntu you have to make it into debian correct?
[22:30] <binarymutant> package it, get a sponsor to upload it
[22:30] <wrst> i think they have all that in place not positive but think so
[22:31] <binarymutant> http://mentors.debian.net/
[22:31] <cyberanger> binarymutant: that's ongoing last I heard
[22:32] <binarymutant> it's easier to get it into Ubuntu, but sort of the same process
[22:32] <cyberanger> but good advice (as I intend to push it that way anyhow)
[22:32] <cyberanger> binarymutant: really, would have thought the other way around
[22:32] <cyberanger> and I'd just settle for an openlp repo by now
[22:32] <binarymutant> no, Ubuntu is really easy to get stuff into. Debian is much harder to appease
[22:32] <binarymutant> ppa it yet?
[22:33] <wrst> yes it has a ppa
[22:33] <binarymutant> cool
[22:33] <wrst> i think they were going for debian packaging i think but not positive
[22:33] <binarymutant> where's the ppa? I'll check over it
[22:34] <cyberanger> https://www.cgran.org/wiki/gr-air-modes I'm making a parts list for this, sick of staring and going "this is cool" for a month
[22:34] <binarymutant> plane tracker is pretty neat
[22:35] <cyberanger> binarymutant: not radar, but as close as one can get without building a passive radar
[22:36] <cyberanger> and an active radar wouldn't be allowed by the fcc in this area
[22:37] <cyberanger> (passive radar is some high end military stuff, imagine using celluar signals to "paint" every airplane, and just listen for that ping)
[22:37] <binarymutant> <-- not a hamradio guy, alls I know(from the brief scan) is it tracks planes
[22:37] <binarymutant> like satellites
[22:38] <cyberanger> this just listens for the Mode S signal transponders give now, and ADS-B is a next gen transponder, not just air to ground and ground to air, but air to air
[22:38] <binarymutant> ...
[22:38] <binarymutant> o_0
[22:38] <binarymutant> huh?
[22:39]  * wrst is glad cyberanger knows what he is talking about
[22:39] <binarymutant> I always thought transponder was just a made up Doctor Who term :P
[22:39] <cyberanger> lets just say this is more avation than ham radio (actually it's not ham radio at all) and when done, once everybody uses ADS-B, it'l be as good as radar for anything short of a smuggler or military flight
[22:39] <binarymutant> ah ok
[22:40] <cyberanger> binarymutant: transmitter-responder, used in satellite communications, avation, and beyond
[22:41] <binarymutant> :D
[22:41] <binarymutant> <-- clueless looks
[22:43] <cyberanger> not made up
[22:43] <wrst> uh oh debian replaced grub-legacy with grub2 this may not be good
[22:43] <cyberanger> wrst: it'll be fine, considering it's debian, they delayed a huge bit, means they aimed to get it right
[22:44] <cyberanger> and didn't remove legacy either
[22:44] <binarymutant> cyberanger: I believe you. Oh wait no I get it now, transmitter-responder -> transponder; ty
[22:44] <wrst> yeah and it replaced my 486 with a 686 kernel i may go back to 486 if it doesn't work so well but i can boot either it appears
[22:45] <cyberanger> binarymutant: yeah
[22:45] <cyberanger> vs a transceiver, transmitter reciver
[22:45] <cyberanger> which is a bit different
[22:46] <cyberanger> transponder, transmits a response, automanter
[22:46] <binarymutant> that makes sense to me now
[22:46] <cyberanger> automated
[22:46]  * wrst crosses fingers and reboots
[22:47]  * cyberanger wishes wrst luck and hopes he isn't crossing fingers long
[22:48] <wrst> well just checked on the monitor it is booting
[22:48] <binarymutant> any vanilla kernel should work
[22:49] <cyberanger> and even some straberry kernels
[22:49]  * cyberanger mmmm
[22:50] <wrst> 3.0 kernel constantly rebooted
[22:50] <binarymutant> rocky road won't
[22:51] <cyberanger> yeah, rocky road is too much sticky choclate, gets into everything
[22:52] <binarymutant> wrst: prolly best to stick with 2.6 on that old hardware for now. 3.0 hasn't been around long enough
[22:52] <wrst> its 686/486 i think
[22:52] <wrst> it installed 686
[22:53] <cyberanger> yeah, tempting fate is like dumping petrol on the floor and wondering if the lighter works
[22:53] <wrst> isntalling 486 3.0 and seeing what happens
[22:53] <cyberanger> hoping it won't
[22:53] <wrst> i still have 2.6
[22:53] <wrst> and really nothing all that new about 3.0
[22:53] <binarymutant> it has new stuff, idk the details though
[22:54] <cyberanger> getting a byte of GRUB, bbl
[22:54] <wrst> yeah but every release has some new stuff its not like gnome 3 or kde 4
[22:54] <binarymutant> I'm not sure how they do versioning.
[22:54] <wrst> binarymutant: linus just decided it was time to call it 3.0 :)
[22:54] <binarymutant> 2.4 and 2.6 were being developed alongside of eachother for the longest time
[22:55] <binarymutant> so I assumed, there was a 2.4, 2.6, and 3.0 kernels
[22:55] <binarymutant> 2.4 being very modular, 2.6 being monolithic, and 3.0 being... "new" :D
[22:56] <wrst> cyberanger: correct me on that but I think 3.0 is nothing special other than a number
[22:56] <binarymutant> I should look it up
[22:56] <binarymutant> http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_3.0
[22:57] <wrst> yep 3.0 486 works!
[22:58] <binarymutant> thats cool
[22:59] <wrst> now to get grub to realize 3.0 686 is gone
[23:00] <wrst> i think i did it!
[23:00] <binarymutant> 2.4 eol is this year
[23:00] <wrst> so i guess they will keep 2.6 and 3.0?
[23:01] <binarymutant> ya
[23:01] <binarymutant> 2.6 is the stable-stable-stable branch, 3.0 accepts new changes
[23:02] <binarymutant> 2.6 only accepts bug fixes
[23:02] <wrst> and Unit193 i know have a working pianobar if i have sound :)
[23:03] <binarymutant> <- not a kernel guy OR a hardware guy
[23:03]  * Unit193 wonders about the lame announce channel and about wrst 
[23:03] <wrst> Unit193: i'm not right
[23:10] <wrst> i have no sound but i suspect this could be many things and I have windows to clean
[23:10] <binarymutant> wrst: add yourself to the audio group
[23:11] <wrst> binarymutant:  thank you :)
[23:12]  * wrst remembers cyberanger's reminders and he has to do that with arch also
[23:12] <binarymutant> <-- just went through the same thing
[23:13] <wrst> already a member
[23:13] <binarymutant> erk dunno then
[23:13] <wrst> can't be much gotta clean windows :)
[23:14] <binarymutant> there's a wiki page that has a checklist for audio problems, I'll find it while your out
[23:14] <binarymutant> wrst: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingSoundProblems https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Advanced_Linux_Sound_Architecture
[23:33] <wrst> ok binarymutant i'm a moron
[23:33] <wrst> i turned the channels up but didn't unmute :)
[23:35] <binarymutant> ah!
[23:36] <wrst> Unit193: pianobar have a web interface? :)
[23:37] <Unit193> wrst: If cyberanger made one ;)  It has the ability to
[23:37] <wrst> ahh cyberanger did
[23:40] <binarymutant> did I just get logged out again??
[23:40] <binarymutant> sheesh
[23:41] <wrst> yep you did binarymutant :)
[23:42] <binarymutant> terrible
[23:43] <wrst> binarymutant: but its fast :)
[23:43] <Unit193> Would it help to say I didn't?
[23:44] <binarymutant> not really
[23:44] <binarymutant> :/
[23:45] <wrst> binarymutant: what type of speed do you get with comcast?
[23:46] <binarymutant> speedtest says 7.76Mb Down, 2.73 Up
[23:47] <wrst> binarymutant: http://www.speedtest.net/result/1529753255.png
[23:47] <wrst> not much difference in you and my dsl
[23:47] <wrst> i love your upload
[23:47] <cyberanger> Unit193: wouldn't call it complete
[23:48] <cyberanger> in fact, it's nowhere near complete
[23:48] <wrst> cyberanger: i look forward to testing it :)
[23:48] <cyberanger> had an easier time tweaking lirp for it
[23:48] <Unit193> cyberanger: Didn't think I said it was, but I'll test too :D
[23:48] <binarymutant> wrst: whoa that's your dsl??
[23:49] <binarymutant> when I had dsl it couldn't get 3mb
[23:49] <cyberanger> well, you said I made one, just clarifing I've not made one, just making one
[23:50] <cyberanger> workin progress
[23:50] <cyberanger> binarymutant: how did you get comcast
[23:50] <binarymutant> cyberanger: dad's net
[23:50] <cyberanger> that's comcastic
[23:50] <cyberanger> ah
[23:51] <cyberanger> ah, that's comcastic
[23:51] <binarymutant> yes
[23:51] <binarymutant> I'm sure I'll be kicked off shortly for actually using it to the fullest
[23:51] <cyberanger> and yes, dsl has improved, aT&T has not
[23:51] <binarymutant> bellsouth should have never merged back with at&t /me hated that
[23:52] <cyberanger> well, dunno about that, I think I was GTE followed by verizon for all that
[23:53] <cyberanger> move happened after that mishap
[23:53] <cyberanger> my old cable co up there pulled an enron
[23:53] <cyberanger> if your gonna follow an idiot stepping on landmines, might be wise to do so from a distance
[23:54] <binarymutant> we need more competition in the south for ISPs
[23:54] <cyberanger> working on that, I hope
[23:56] <cyberanger> we really do need competition, gonna be a trick to make it happen the way we really want