[13:50] <highvoltage> wow I forgot just how slow optical media is
[13:53] <highvoltage> and there crashes ubiquity :/
[14:12] <stgraber> highvoltage: how did it crash?
[14:27] <highvoltage> it just closed after the wifi step, I'm going to run that again and see if I can get some debugging information to include in a bug report. it worked when I ran ubiquity again immediately after.
[14:29] <highvoltage> stgraber: ah, it seems like mgariepy gave me a dodgy DVD, it crashed while copying files too saying it had trouble reading the disc :)
[14:31] <stgraber> highvoltage: you really shouldn't trust mgariepy with iso images ;) his image was already corrupted on Friday...
[14:32] <highvoltage> stgraber: yes! That's why I thought he'd learn his lesson!
[14:32] <highvoltage> learned. whatever :)
[14:35] <stgraber> highvoltage: learnt? :)
[14:38] <mgariepy> hehe
[14:38] <mgariepy> it was installing fine from a usb disk yesterday,
[14:38] <mgariepy> not my fault if the blank dvd highvoltage gave me was a crappy one.
[14:39] <highvoltage> hehe
[14:39] <mgariepy> and if highvoltage had a real laptop (with a dvd-writer) he could have done it himself :P
[14:39] <mgariepy> haha
[14:39] <highvoltage> stgraber: not my fault if quebec is breaking my engrish!
[14:39] <highvoltage> dvd's are so last decade.
[14:39] <stgraber> heh ;)
[17:48] <Braj> hi
[17:49] <Braj> any 1 is there...
[18:01] <jbicha> hmm, using the desktop image as starter, I got a 21% headstart on zsyncing Edubuntu
[19:11] <highvoltage> brunolambert: hi
[19:11] <highvoltage> oops, actually meant "Braj". but good to see you here too brunolambert :)
[19:11] <brunolambert> highvoltage: hi
[19:11] <highvoltage> jbicha: nice
[19:12] <brunolambert> highvoltage: you "tab" didn't get Braj, as Braj is not here anymore
[19:12] <highvoltage> yup
[19:12] <brunolambert> stayed for a good 2 minutes.
[19:12] <highvoltage> people are too impatient.
[20:34] <nubae> greets LaserJock its been a long long time
[20:34] <nubae> how are things going for you
[20:34] <nubae> u know work and all that
[20:34] <LaserJock> hi nubae
[20:34] <LaserJock> not bad
[20:34] <LaserJock> got a real job :-)
[20:35] <nubae> yeah so late nights
[20:35] <LaserJock> quite a few yes
[20:35] <nubae> litle pay
[20:35] <nubae> bad food
[20:35] <LaserJock> but I'm actually using moodle on a daily basis now :-)
[20:35] <nubae> well u should probably get pretty good pay
[20:35] <LaserJock> so I guess I got to actually use something I shipped
[20:35] <LaserJock> well, so-so pay anyway
[20:35] <nubae> haha!
[20:36] <LaserJock> nubae: how are you?
[20:36] <nubae> u see its a good product?
[20:36] <LaserJock> it's been pretty helpful
[20:36] <nubae> worthy of being a teachers primary tool
[20:36] <LaserJock> I don't use it for everything, but the grading and organization has been helpful
[20:36] <nubae> ]yeah problem is one needs time to learn how to use it
[20:37] <nubae> like all these things
[20:37] <LaserJock> yeah
[20:37] <nubae> well, strangely enough, I just happen to be setting up an Ubuntu LTSP system for a school down here
[20:38] <nubae> fighting the windozen idiots
[20:38] <LaserJock> unfortunately most of my time is now spent on Windows
[20:38] <LaserJock> I'm hoping to set up a small research lab though, and will use Linux for that
[20:39] <nubae> I walked into the place and they had some systems running ubuntu (off old ltsp), windows machines (win 7) running on 512mb ram and celeron processors
[20:39] <LaserJock> yikes
[20:39] <nubae> couple folks had macs
[20:40] <LaserJock> I'm sorta tied to MS Office unfortunately
[20:40] <nubae> and they managed to really fuck the network by putting wireless routers all over the school with their own dhcp servers
[20:40] <LaserJock> hmm, that doesn't sound good
[20:40] <nubae> u can imagine the mess
[20:41] <nubae> yeah the first question was, why doesnt the internet or printers work (windows users, who had been dissing and blaming the ubuntu system from the start)
[20:42] <LaserJock> hah
[20:43] <nubae> So, not being able to holdback, I explained that perhaps a quick basic lesson in IT would benefit everyone, the IT teacher included
[20:43] <nubae> actually, I sat him at the front
[20:43] <LaserJock> yeah?
[20:43] <nubae> Sooooo.... first, I explained the concept of thin terminals.....
[20:45] <nubae> ie.... u spend money only on the server, and it, magial that it is, fixes alll computer problems, as long as certain rules are applied
[20:47] <nubae> I wrote a list of things I knew they'd been doing: ripping out cables, plugging in dhcp routers randomley around the school, trying to install win7 or vista on systems not far off from 486s.... they blamed ubuntu for that one too
[20:47] <nubae> anwyay long story short
[20:47] <nubae> because this is surely boring u now
[20:48] <LaserJock> don't worry about me, I'm just grading
[20:48] <LaserJock> so I'm just bouncing back and forth
[20:48] <LaserJock> :-)
[20:48] <nubae> we started slow, recabling/grimping, got upgradeed LTS ltsp server feeding most terminals other  than die hard macos and win 7 ysers
[20:51] <nubae> installed a much improved vmware 8 (very good product indeed) within a fat partition on server so kids could use office if they really needed too ( The IT teacher, who is actually a science teacher and never taught IT 'likes' it more... so I delicately came to a cimpromise where he could teach them 50% vmware based office... curiousn to see how the fat clients hold up
[20:52] <nubae> next I want to show hiim moodle... but leaving that till last
[20:53] <nubae> any suggestions on where to start?
[20:55] <LaserJock> I'm not sure
[20:56] <LaserJock> I like using it for grading and for a place to dump videos/power point slides, etc.
[20:56] <LaserJock> I try not to over-use it
[20:56] <LaserJock> there are a lot of nice things like forums and such
[20:57] <LaserJock> but for now I'm keeping it simple with assignments, resources, and grades
[20:57] <nubae> well the dude is a bit of a powerpoit junky... that was his main qualm between presenter and it
[20:58] <nubae> so incorporating some powerpoint showing the power of moodle might be the ticket
[20:58] <LaserJock> I use powerpoint for one of my classes and just put up the slides after class
[20:58] <LaserJock> so students can access them anytime
[20:58] <nubae> and ill show him grading.... as all teachers need that
[20:59] <nubae> u mean acccess from outside the school?
[20:59] <LaserJock> yeah, grading can be a little complicated, but once you get it it's really nice
[20:59] <LaserJock> I suppose they could yeah
[21:00] <LaserJock> most students are on-campus so I'm not sure if it's just within the campus network or if they can access them outside
[21:00] <LaserJock> I think they can
[21:00] <nubae> ohnI know... i used moodle for almost too many things... u know... it was like an old school intranet giving pointers to absolutely eveyrhing
[21:00] <LaserJock> but in any case, they can get at them and download the .ppt
[21:00] <nubae> ]think i was the only one who read it
[21:01] <LaserJock> and then I link to useful Youtube videos, etc.
[21:02] <nubae> yep... unfortunately, got to get with twitter, identica, etc... oh... if u are in windows and need a fully featured comms agent check digsby
[21:02] <LaserJock> yeah? I've heard of it but haven't looked at it at all
[21:02] <nubae> it connect to basicaly all apis
[21:03] <nubae> its pretty neat
[21:03] <nubae> I've now stuck to using win 7 on the right. linux on the left in fullscreen vmware
[21:03] <nubae> works ok
[21:04] <nubae> best of both worlds.... jsut want some 24 inch monitos
[21:05] <LaserJock> right now I've got Win 7 on the left and Ubuntu 11.10 in virtualbox on the right  ;-)
[21:06] <nubae> worst problem is moving files from one system to the other which should NOT be an issue... but samba refuses to play nice
[21:06] <nubae> ah.. I've got pinguyOS
[21:06] <LaserJock> ah, I use dropbox for that kind of thing
[21:06] <nubae> check it out if u get a chance
[21:06] <nubae> its an awsome OS
[21:07] <LaserJock> yeah, what's it based on?
[21:07] <nubae> well, I'm using google tools for it
[21:07] <nubae> a variety, but mostly ubuntu
[21:08] <nubae> but its the original touches they gave it
[21:08] <nubae> self coded system monitor that really kicks ass
[21:08] <nubae> a properly working conky, on as many sides or top and bottom as u like
[21:09] <LaserJock> interesting
[21:09] <nubae> its really ahead of its time
[21:10] <nubae> ull see when u check it out... the channel is really friendly too and the guys are waty modest... some of them have been involved in major projects
[21:10] <nubae> waty = way
[21:11] <LaserJock> I've been looking at Linux Mint Debian Edition, I quite like it
[21:11] <nubae> ok... I get back to my server... have to install an online ubuntu upgrade from lucid to maverick
[21:11] <nubae> i can see it giving me probs alkready
[21:12] <nubae> yeah mint is really cool... but check pinguyos.... that on another level my friend
[21:12] <LaserJock> k
[21:34] <highvoltage> omg it's LaserJock
[21:34] <highvoltage> LaserJock: hi, how are you?
[21:41] <LaserJock> highvoltage: good, good
[21:41] <LaserJock> am finally a uni professor
[21:42] <LaserJock> which means I get to do what I set out to do, but also not a lot of times for fun things
[21:46] <jbicha> LaserJock: congratulations, that's good news!
[21:46] <LaserJock> I thought so ;-)
[21:46] <highvoltage> LaserJock: congratulations! you deserve it.
[21:46] <LaserJock> well, it took 12 years
[21:47] <LaserJock> I'm just glad I actually made it
[21:49] <highvoltage> stgraber: fwiw I can't reproduce my problems from this morning on the current image \o/
[21:51] <LaserJock> how's the release coming together?
[21:52] <highvoltage> there were some last-minute problems (aren't there always?) but it's coming together really well.
[21:52] <highvoltage> stgraber did some good planning so by tomorrow everything will be ready and we can just flip some switches
[21:53] <LaserJock> awesome
[21:53] <LaserJock> are many Edubuntu people going to be able to go to UDS?
[21:53] <highvoltage> we had to drop pessulus, nanny and sabayon because they don't work with all the new gnome stuff anymore
[21:53] <highvoltage> but other than that this has been an ok release.
[21:54] <LaserJock> it's too bad, but it makes sense
[21:54] <LaserJock> it was kind of hard to keep up with sabayon just with normal GNOME 2 releases
[21:55] <highvoltage> yeah, it's a pity, because I felt with the last release that we got to the point where edubuntu's administration stuff was kind of getting somewhere and we could start focussing on some bigger stuff, like actually work on making edubuntu a great education delivery tool
[21:55] <highvoltage> but now we have to go back to the drawing board a bit with the admin stuff
[21:56] <LaserJock> that is really a hard part of open-source in general and 6-month release cycles specifically
[21:56] <highvoltage> yes, the 6 month release cycle doesn't work.
[21:56] <highvoltage> at all.
[21:56] <LaserJock> so much can change underneath you that you end up chasing your tail all the time
[21:58] <alkisg> "where edubuntu's administration stuff was kind of getting somewhere" ==> the new italc-like tool that also allows for applying settings is getting in a good shape, and it's much more easy to maintain with newer gnome releases or even different DEs
[21:58] <alkisg> I wonder if we could put it to edubuntu for 12.04
[21:58] <alkisg> It's i18n (currently english, italian, greek) and it works both with ltsp and non-ltsp installations
[21:59] <alkisg> We'll publish it in a ppa in a week or so, and it'll be rapidly developed more until april
[21:59] <nubae> y'all I need a kind of life or death decision to make
[22:00] <highvoltage> alkisg: we're likely to be ultra-conservative for 12.04, but I'm open to it
[22:00] <nubae> sorry to but in
[22:00] <alkisg> Well, people are reporting that italc is crashing at more than 50% of the labs now
[22:00] <alkisg> I haven't heard epoptes crash yet
[22:00] <alkisg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~epoptes/epoptes/trunk/changes
[22:00] <highvoltage> nubae: no problem, go ahead
[22:00] <nubae> do continue talking
[22:01] <alkisg> Epoptes is the i18n version of the older sch-scripts app
[22:01] <nubae> well... I neeed to select a web amanagement systemn (ie, cpanel, plesk, ispconfig,etc)
[22:01] <alkisg> highvoltage: how would we put it to universe? if a couple of devs here think it's worth it, that's all?
[22:01] <nubae> u know these?
[22:02] <highvoltage> alkisg: yep, as long as the licensing is sound, it can go in. I'd be happy to review it and sponsor it if you'd like
[22:02] <highvoltage> nubae: I'm someone familiar with them
[22:02] <highvoltage> nubae: I don't really like any of them much, but if I had to choose I'd go with cpanel
[22:02] <alkisg> highvoltage: I'd love to. I'll display a quick demo to all of you at the BTS if you want, and if you think it's worthy, you can sponsor it
[22:02] <alkisg> (gpl3)
[22:03] <highvoltage> alkisg: yes, that would be awesome
[22:03] <nubae> I really dont know which would bea  good selection.... its avirtual dedicated server]
[22:03] <highvoltage> alkisg: well, I think it's a good idea to at least get it into the archive for 12.04, once a few users are using it, it makes a bigger case for its default inclusion
[22:04] <alkisg> highvoltage: of course, I wouldn't ask for default inclusion, users won't know it so it won't even be translated yet to many languages
[22:04] <alkisg> (using launchpad for translations, but still...)
[22:04] <highvoltage> nubae: I have shared hosting that I sell, and I use cpanel, it's easy to learn and a lot of people are used to it already.
[22:04] <nubae> so hgave complete control, am currenty upgradig from lucid to maverick
[22:05] <nubae> ok... not tooo many people on this channel, I always used ispconfig for selling hosting and packages
[22:05] <nubae> ]but indeeed, from what ive read cpanel looks quite fine
[22:05] <LaserJock> I've only used cpanel
[22:05] <LaserJock> I liked it fine
[22:06] <highvoltage> it's horrible for a typical linux guy who just wants a shell
[22:06] <highvoltage> but for 'normal' users who just want to click around it does a good job.
[22:06] <LaserJock> for sure
[22:06] <highvoltage> and for the type of stuff you used shared hosting for usually you wouldn't need much command line anyway
[22:07] <nubae> just want to make it ckllear thtat its not a conglomorate...thus server,,,, its just me and various freiends, family members, their family mmbers]
[22:07] <nubae> cpanel will fit is#?>
[22:07] <highvoltage> nubae: ah, then cpanel might be overkill
[22:07] <highvoltage> I think cpanel is quite expensive too
[22:07] <nubae> that was my fear
[22:07] <highvoltage> nubae: why not use something like lxc or vz and give everyone their own container?
[22:07] <nubae> no no... no vz
[22:08] <highvoltage> heh, ok
[22:08] <mgariepy> nubae, why no vz ?
[22:08] <mgariepy> out of curiosity
[22:08] <nubae> u know people these days want to more or less touch what they paid for
[22:09] <nubae> in terms of cpanel.... can I grijfd down the opions
[22:09] <highvoltage> nubae: I'm having a hard time understanding you :)
[22:10] <nubae> ok.... back to point 1....
[22:11] <nubae> need a user friendly control panel for my clients (man of whom are family related) but not all.... in fact, I want to move away from that
[22:11] <nubae> man +many
[22:11] <nubae> man = many
[22:12] <nubae> uk keyboard and havent set it in win 7
[22:12] <highvoltage> nubae: why not get something like a hostgatore reseller account? they're cheap and you can make many individual accounts for your friends and family
[22:12] <highvoltage> *hostgator
[22:13] <nubae> hostgater would that be a monhtly fee?
[22:13] <highvoltage> nubae: personally I think you're setting yourself up for pain and suffering if you're going to do something completely custom for family members and friends who are probably not paying you
[22:13] <highvoltage> nubae: sure, but it's something like $25 a month
[22:13] <nubae> no wait....
[22:15] <nubae> I wont do anything custom for family... they understand that these things arent cheap and just want to have a system they can use that wont break  on them
[22:15] <nubae> from my site, if i can teach it, im happy]
[22:16] <nubae> an if they can more oir less get their email, perhaps an ocassional user list, u k know
[22:17] <nubae> that would be success
[22:21] <alkisg> highvoltage: a packaging/policy question, if you will... epoptes uses reverse connections, i.e. the clients connect to the server and offer it a remote shell so that the server can execute commands on the clients.
[22:21] <alkisg> The server will publish itself with avahi, and non-ltsp clients will autodetect it during postinst and ask the user if he wants to trust the server permanately.
[22:21] <alkisg> The client will store the server public key, and on boot, it will ask the server to sign something to verify it's the same server that was selected during the installation.
[22:21] <alkisg> So, my question is, where do we store the server dns name (or ip) and its public key? In /var or in /etc?
[22:23] <highvoltage> alkisg: well, things that a user/administrator will want to set should be in /etc. stored data should go under /var
[22:23] <alkisg> So we'll just generate a non-conffile in /etc/epoptes/config, right?
[22:24] <highvoltage> alkisg: but I'm not sure where the public key should be stored, personally I've stored it under /var before, might be best to confirm with -motu before I give you some bad advice :)
[22:24] <alkisg> Will do, thanks :)
[22:29] <alkisg> Ah, and a last question, so if epoptes manages to get into universe, when will the last import be? At the same time as debianimportfreeze?
[22:31] <alkisg>  15     February 11th          LTSDebianImportFreeze  - that would give us time to get many (well tested) features in
[22:34] <LaserJock> alkisg: if it's not coming through Debian I think you would have more time
[22:34] <alkisg> Very nice, so we'll be able to put a lot of features there... http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/epoptes
[22:41] <jbicha> if you want epoptes on the DVD, then you'll need to be stabilizing by Feature Freeze
[22:42] <stgraber> alkisg: FeatureFreeze is the deadline
[22:42] <stgraber> alkisg: after that you need to have a bug report approved by the release team
[22:43] <alkisg> Thanks guys, featurefreeze does give us enough time to have plenty of stable features in
[22:43] <alkisg> We've already been using it for more than a year in 250 schools so stability is no concern
[23:00] <alkisg> Goodnight all
[23:57] <highvoltage> 'night al