[00:28] <smspillaz> jdstrand: that works is done
[00:29] <smspillaz> jdstrand: http://smspillaz.wordpress.com/2011/07/17/moving-the-screenlocker-into-compiz/
[02:45] <jdstrand> smspillaz: oh, that is awesome. is this working today in 11.10 or is this for precise?
[04:13] <pitti> Good morning
[04:18] <jbicha> pitti: you're not in London this week, are you?
[04:19] <pitti> jbicha: I'm not
[04:29] <BigWhale> Good Mornin
[04:29] <BigWhale> g
[04:33] <pitti> hey BigWhale
[04:34] <BigWhale> Happy release day! :>
[05:35] <smspillaz> jdstrand: I have not targeted it for precise, but the groundwork is there if someone wants to run with it
[05:35] <smspillaz> (the compiz list for precise is really tiny, we're only focusing on performance and stability)
[05:39] <RAOF> And splitting rendering across GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE chunks, I trust!
[05:39] <RAOF> :)
[05:39] <smspillaz> yeah maybe
[05:39] <smspillaz> I'd prefer not to have an enormous work item queue again this cycle
[06:12] <didrocks> good morning
[06:12] <pitti> bonjour didrocks, ca va?
[06:13] <didrocks> pitti: Guten Morgen. ça va! et toi?
[06:13] <pitti> je suis bien, merci!
[06:25] <smspillaz> morning didrocks  :)
[06:25] <didrocks> hey smspillaz, how are you?
[06:25] <smspillaz> good good
[06:25] <smspillaz> didrocks: I am upstreaming as many distro patches as possible
[06:25] <didrocks> smspillaz: nice
[06:25] <didrocks> smspillaz: are you on unity trunk?
[06:25] <smspillaz> today I'm merging gtk-w-d and u-w-d :)
[06:25] <smspillaz> didrocks: yeah
[06:26] <didrocks> smspillaz: I guess constant segfaults of the unity-panel-service there from the latest tarball
[06:26] <smspillaz> well, not running it right now, but I will be soon
[06:26] <smspillaz> didrocks: backtrace ?
[06:26] <didrocks> smspillaz: I'm rebuilding unity with dbgsym
[06:26]  * smspillaz doesn't know much about u-p-s, best to ask njpatel
[06:26] <smspillaz> ok
[06:26] <didrocks> smspillaz: yeah, was just to know if you reproduce :)
[06:26] <smspillaz> haven't really seen anything lately
[06:31] <didrocks> well, you are not running it right now as you said, so maybe it's only since yesterday, still building…
[07:18] <pitti> dentist appointment, bbl
[07:24] <didrocks> see you pitti
[07:24] <ogra_> and good luck :)
[07:25] <didrocks> hey ogra_
[07:25] <ogra_> hey didrocks, happy release day :D
[07:27] <didrocks> happy release day ogra_!
[07:27] <pitti> ah, no, it's in an your
[07:27] <pitti> "hour"
[07:28] <didrocks> pitti: is it a normal visit or you are suffering?
[07:30] <pitti> didrocks: not really suffering, but my dentist recommended to have my wisdom teeth out
[07:30] <pitti> (wont' happen today, just first visit)
[07:32] <ogra_> ouch, wisdom teeth are nasty
[07:32] <rodrigo__> morning
[07:32] <didrocks> ogra_: don't afraid him! :)
[07:33] <ogra_> didrocks, i didnt mean to, its good to have them pulled before they squeeze your front row :)
[07:33]  * didrocks has an horrible story about his wisdom teeth, two weeks of continuous suffering after the extraction… and even final fantasy 8 didn't help at the time! :)
[07:33] <didrocks> ogra_: indeed ;)
[07:33] <didrocks> hey rodrigo_
[07:38] <rodrigo_> hi didrocks
[07:41] <pitti> hey rodrigo_, good morning
[07:44] <rodrigo__> hi pitti
[07:45] <rodrigo__> pitti, had fun at the dentist?
[07:48] <pitti> rodrigo_: weren't there yet, it's at 11
[07:48] <rodrigo_> ah, good luck then :(
[07:48] <pitti> rodrigo_: no pain today just yet, just examination :)
[07:48] <rodrigo_> oh good
[07:58] <didrocks> grrr, xorg again crashed on toomanywrites
[08:16] <seb128> hey
[08:16] <ogra_> seb128, happy release day !
[08:16] <seb128> ogra_, thanks, to you as well ;-)
[08:16] <seb128> today is going to be Oneiric :p
[08:16] <ogra_> yeah !
[08:16] <pitti> hey seb128
[08:17]  * ogra_ hopes rick is wearing the eye patch :)
[08:17] <seb128> hey pitti, how are you?
[08:17] <rodrigo_> morning seb128
[08:17] <rodrigo_> and ogra :)
[08:17] <pitti> seb128: pretty well, thanks!
[08:17] <seb128> hey rodrigo_, wb
[08:18] <didrocks> salut seb128
[08:18] <seb128> hey didrocks
[08:21] <pitti> dentist for real now, back in ~ 2 h
[08:22] <didrocks> pitti: good luck!
[08:24] <jasoncwarner_> Hi everyone! Happy Oneiric Release Day!
[08:25] <seb128> pitti, good luck!
[08:25] <seb128> hey jasoncwarner_, happy oneiric day!
[08:27] <didrocks> hey jasoncwarner_
[08:28] <jasoncwarner_> hey didrocks !
[08:30] <jasoncwarner_> hey didrocks , how is compiz in proposed looking? I saw two things this morning and was wondering if they were compiz related
[08:30] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: the spread is working better for me, for sure.
[08:30] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: yeah, the 2: compiz and compiz-plugins-main should fix your jumpy windows
[08:30] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: let me know how it goes!
[08:31] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: still having issues with last unity tarball: unity-panel-service is continously segfaulting there, getting a backtrace for njpatel to look at it before pushing that to -proposed
[08:31] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: ok, the two things I saw this morning (after updating) were this: 1. randomly when I throw my mouse to either left or right side of screen, I'll get the amber resize window (I'm not trying to resize an application). it was weird
[08:31] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: hum, on an empty workspace?
[08:32] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: do you have a maximized window in the workspace next to the one you are seeing this?
[08:32] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: oh! the unity-panel-services might be the #2. the indicators sometimes won't draw....like, the box shadow shoes up for the indicator menu, but htere is no actual menu.
[08:32] <jasoncwarner_> nothing is rendered?
[08:33] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: for #1, yes, I am in a workspace with a maximized chrome window. both robbie and pgraner saw this same thing.
[08:33] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: oh, I don't think it's this one, do you see at the same time the menu getting back into the application and then disappearing?
[08:33] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: are you sure it's new? we had a long standing compiz bug where the app next to your current workspace is seen by compiz on both workspace
[08:34] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: sam has a fix for it IIRC, but it was after I pushed this version in -proposed. And every time we push a new package to -proposed we reset the timer for 7 days (so basically if we backport every fixes as they go, we will never have a new compiz in -updates)
[08:34] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: it def feels new
[08:35] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: let me reset to be sure..
[08:35] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: yes please, I'm pretty sure this one was already there
[08:35] <didrocks> smspillaz: any idea? ^
[08:37] <dpm> good morning everyone, happy release day! :)
[08:37] <didrocks> hey dpm, happy release day! :)
[08:37] <dpm> hey didrocks :)
[08:39] <dpm> pitti, quick question on jockey: I was trying to install and enable nouveau on a new oneiric install, but I could not get jockey to show it at all to choose it, even after having disabled the nvidia one. Has nouveau been blacklisted or something in oneiric?
[08:39] <smspillaz> didrocks: oh, yeah, that
[08:39] <smspillaz> didrocks: we'll fix it in the next sru, the bug was in the grid plugin doing something weird
[08:40] <smspillaz> don't worry about it though, its harmless
[08:40] <smspillaz> (dont want to reset the timer for another 7 days over that)
[08:42] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: ^^
[08:43] <jasoncwarner_> smspillaz: it may be harmless, but it these kind of bugs kind of freak people out (make them think they aren't controlling their computer ;))
[08:43] <smspillaz> jasoncwarner_: it isn't worth resetting the timer over. I have a fix for it though
[08:43] <jasoncwarner_> smspillaz: I'm fine iwth that (I.e. I trust didrocks on that)
[08:43] <jasoncwarner_> smspillaz: do you have a compiz bug list for SRUs?
[08:43] <smspillaz> jasoncwarner_: its also not reproducible except under rare circumstances (like, if you use the workspace switcher then drag a window and click while dragging to exit and then move to the right hand side of the screen
[08:44] <smspillaz> jasoncwarner_: bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+milestone/4.24.0 and 4.26.0
[08:44] <jasoncwarner_> smspillaz: thanks
[08:44] <smspillaz> note that they are all "Fix Committed" or have branches linked ?
[08:44] <smspillaz> yeahhhhhh
[08:44]  * smspillaz shuts up
[08:45] <smspillaz> (except the STACKING!!!!111onee!!!!1one! bug, I just keep that open so that in case a new edge case comes up I don't get a million people complaining to me)
[08:45] <smspillaz> (it is all just edge cases now, the big ones are gone)
[08:46] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: I'm more concerned about your second issue
[08:47] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: can you reproduce or have you heard anything about it yet?
[08:47] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: no, not on the french forum at least and not on IRC
[08:47] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: thanks
[08:48] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_:  do you see at the same time the menu getting back into the application and then disappearing?
[08:48] <didrocks> (trying to see if it's the panel service crashing)
[08:48] <didrocks> like then all indicators reloading… and such
[08:48] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: I didn't notice that explicitly
[08:48] <didrocks> so, you just click on an indicator, and nothing happens?
[08:51] <seb128> didrocks, jasoncwarner_: did you try to ps axu | grep unity-panel-service twice
[08:52] <seb128> just to see if it's running and if the pid is changing?
[08:52] <jasoncwarner_> seb128: let me look
[08:52] <jasoncwarner_> oh, seb128 I had to reboot to get rid of it...forgot (it was this morning)
[08:52] <jasoncwarner_> so, I don't have it now
[08:52] <seb128> jasoncwarner_, don't have what?
[08:52] <seb128> not sure I followed correctly the backlog so ignore me ;-)
[08:53] <jasoncwarner_> seb128: have the issue with the menu issue :)
[08:53] <seb128> didrocks, pitti, rodrigo_, other interested in GNOME: I just sent an email to the desktop list on my though for GNOME 3.2 against 3.4 for the LTS
[08:53] <didrocks> seb128: thanks, will read shortly :)
[08:53] <seb128> I would welcome people thinking about it before UDS, maybe discuss or share opinions on the list so we come prepared
[08:54] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, will get to it soon, when I get yesterday's mail all sorted out :)
[08:55] <seb128> jasoncwarner_, is 1- specific to chrome?
[08:55] <jasoncwarner_> seb128: not sure, but I only saw it over chrome window (doesn't replicate all the time)
[08:56] <didrocks> it can happens basically all maximized windows from the commits I saw
[08:58] <seb128> jasoncwarner_, can you videocast it? ;-)
[08:59] <czajkowski> morning all
[09:00] <didrocks> seb128: not sure if that's worse discussing any longer though, it's known, fixed upstream ;)
[09:00] <didrocks> for 1-
[09:00] <didrocks> and I would prefer getting this unity SRU out first
[09:01] <seb128> didrocks, ok, great
[09:01] <seb128> didrocks, do you need help testing sru candidates in a ppa btw? i.e the new unity which segfaults for you, do you want me to try it as well just to get a second round of testing? (or third or ... $(what you did)+1)
[09:02] <seb128> hey czajkowski
[09:02] <didrocks> seb128: sure, pushing
[09:02] <didrocks> seb128: anyway, it's segfaulting too much here that I can be confident pushing it :)
[09:02] <didrocks> but in the ppa, sure
[09:03] <didrocks> (every app focus change segfault it)
[09:03] <seb128> didrocks, ok, I will give it a round of testing, let's see how it behaves for me
[09:03] <seb128> didrocks, uninstall indicator-appmenu ;-)
[09:03] <seb128> you might get a working desktop until they fix it
[09:04] <didrocks> let's see if it's really indicator-appmenu
[09:04] <didrocks> but there is a fair chance it's the one!
[09:07] <didrocks> confirmed, without it, it works
[09:08] <seb128> didrocks, ok, let's put njpatel and ted in a room and see who comes out ;-)
[09:09] <didrocks> \o/
[09:10] <didrocks> ok, unity and nux pushed
[09:11] <didrocks> let's wait for them to build
[09:19] <jml> bryceh: ta. my previous comment timed out, apparently
[09:25] <geser> where I can find now the place to change the order of the min,max,close button? I changed it in the past and want to reset it to the default. It is still with gconf-editor or now dconf-editor or something else?
[09:25] <seb128> still gconf
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks. does unity-2d just use one branch for both packaging and upstream development?
[09:34] <chrisccoulson> i wanted to push https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/unity-2d/lp873027/+merge/79172 to proposed, but i'm not sure how the branches work :)
[09:35] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: yeah, it's just one branch, but current trunk isn't shippable
[09:35] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: they added feature
[09:36] <geser> seb128: what the key for it? apparently not apps/metacity/general/button_layout anymore (unity-2d if it matters)
[09:36] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: oh interesting, unity-2d was also affected by this one…
[09:36] <seb128> geser, don't ask me, I've no clue
[09:36] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: please talk to Kaleo, he maybe have other fixes we want
[09:36] <seb128> geser, I never changed the order
[09:36] <seb128> nor unity-2
[09:36] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: and yeah, seeing that, I'm not in favor of this workflow if upstream doesn't follow ubuntu processes…
[09:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson, stop working on 2d and fix 3d ;-)
[09:40] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey btw, how are you? ;-)
[09:43] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128 :)
[09:43] <chrisccoulson> i like 2d ;)
[09:43] <chrisccoulson> i'm good thanks, how are you?
[09:44] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, the process seems fairly broken. especially considering that the packaging is not native too
[09:44] <chrisccoulson> Kaleo, are there any other fixes you'd like for oneiric (that are appropriate for SRU)?
[09:44] <chrisccoulson> (in addition to https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/unity-2d/lp873027/+merge/79172)
[09:45] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm fine thanks
[09:46] <rye> may i draw some attention to the upgrade process - in case the upgrade from natty to oneiric is done via wifi, the whole process whill signal about the error since networkmanager disconnects wifi during upgrade (why?), and flashplugin fails to install due to missing network connection
[09:46] <rye> this was filed as bug #859373 but I experienced this yesterday while upgrading my netbook
[09:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 859373 in update-manager "flashplugin-installer upgrade failed during Oneiric upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/859373
[09:46] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: yeah, they wanted the packaging in the branch. The deal was that trunk was always shippable…
[09:46] <rye> whill - will
[09:47] <seb128> rye, hey, you should better use #ubuntu-devel, that doesn't seem desktop specific
[09:48] <rye> seb128, oops, again. This is the second time i am writing to this channel instead of -devel, sorry :(
[09:48] <seb128> rye, no worry ;-)
[09:48] <mvo> I remember that this happend in the past too and we did some sort of fix for it
[09:48] <seb128> session restart, brb
[09:49] <rye> I guess i like #ubuntu=desktop channel much more, shiny stuff is discussed here
[09:50] <didrocks> rye: that's where the cool guys are :p
[09:51] <geser> how do I add a custom launcher into the unity-2d panel?
[09:56] <dpm> hey desktoppers, quick question: how can I change my displayed user name in the indicator area in 11.10?
[09:57] <popey> dpm: edit /etc/passwd , logout/login :D
[09:57] <geser> isn't it the gecos field?
[09:58] <Laney> chfn?
[09:58] <dpm> popey, really? Is there no configuration option somewhere?
[09:59] <popey> dpm: oh, i suspect so yes, i am not on an ubuntu machine right now though
[09:59] <popey> dpm: thats the quick and dirty way
[10:01] <dpm> popey, I'd like to see if there is a quick and no log out way, too, but thanks anyway :)
[10:03] <Laney> I doubt it's read other than when logging in
[10:03] <pitti> re
[10:04] <Laney> hiya
[10:05] <seb128> pitti, wb
[10:05] <seb128> pitti, how did it go?
[10:06] <pitti> seb128: nothing exciting, just looking into my mouth, explaining the procedure, and making an appointment for Jan 17
[10:06] <pitti> after the rally
[10:06] <seb128> ok
[10:06] <seb128> <- doesn't like dentists (who does? ;-)
[10:09] <pitti> seb128: producers of dental tools? :-)
[10:09] <popey> dpm: i suspect you might be able to to it if you kill something and respawn it
[10:09] <popey> but i doubt there is a "nice" way to do it
[10:10] <seb128> pitti, indeed ;-)
[10:19] <rodrigo_> hmm, I've got a doubt about languages installation
[10:20] <rodrigo_> if I don't have thunderbird/libreoffice installed, for instance, and I install French language support
[10:20] <rodrigo_> if I install thunderbird/libreoffice, the corresponding libreoffice-help-fr libreoffice-l10n-fr packages are not installed, right?
[10:21] <rodrigo_> or are they installed when I install the French language pack even if I don't have libreoffice installed?
[10:24] <seb128> rodrigo_, it's a pitti's question, language-selector used to have different boxes to install translations, dictionnaries, input methods, etc
[10:24] <seb128> but that got dropped in Oneiric
[10:24] <rodrigo_> pitti, if you are recovered from the dentist's visit ^^ :-D
[10:25] <seb128> but I would say that if you install tb or lo, it should be s-c's job to bring the corresponding translations for you
[10:25] <seb128> not sure mvo agrees though ;-)
[10:25] <seb128> we don't have locale specific recommends which is basically what we would need there
[10:26] <seb128> but maybe s-c can be smart enough to solve those cases
[10:26] <pitti> rodrigo_: language-selector only installs translations for apps you have installed
[10:26] <pitti> seb128: right, it should
[10:26] <pitti> that's bug 396414
[10:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 396414 in language-selector "When KDE or gnome apps get installed, the corresponding language-packs should be pulled automatically" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/396414
[10:26] <pitti> I hope I can tackle it for precise
[10:26] <pitti> rodrigo_: ^
[10:26] <rodrigo_> oh cool
[10:26] <mvo> seb128: there is plugin support for that in aptdaemon actually, it should be relatively straightforward
[10:27] <rodrigo_> that would be much easier for the install-languages thing I'm working on on the region panel
[10:27] <pitti> it shoudln't be hard, we need to run check-language-support and turn the output into "virtual dependencies"
[10:58] <pitti> Mutt: =ubugs/ [Msgs:0]
[10:58] <pitti> *uff*!
[11:24] <seb128> mvo, hey, is it known that update-manager doesn't fit on x600 (vertical resolution)? the button are out of the screen on my 10v
[11:25] <mvo> seb128: the release upgrader?
[11:26] <seb128> mvo, no, update-manager on a fresh oneiric install
[11:26] <jasoncwarner_> hey guys...weird question. Does anyone know why I've had this library being held back for like the past week?
[11:26] <jasoncwarner_> ia32-libs-multiarch:i386
[11:26] <jasoncwarner_> it is just sitting there being held back for quite some time...
[11:26] <mvo> seb128: hm, hm, let me check
[11:30] <mvo> seb128: hm, the default height is set to 600px, do you see more than that?
[11:31] <seb128> mvo, no, but the screen is x600 and I've the unity panel and the wm decoration bar
[11:31] <seb128> which is just enough to get the 2 bottom buttons out of the screen
[11:34] <mvo> seb128: ohh, ok, indeed, let me fix that
[11:35] <seb128> it sucks that applications are not clever enough to pick a default geometry adapted to the screen
[11:36] <smspillaz> I wonder if it makes sense to ignore size hints if placement would be offscreen in compiz
[11:36] <smspillaz> we can do that, at the cost of making some applications exhibit funny behaviour
[12:00] <rodrigo_> do we have a SRU exception for gnome 3.2.1 packages? or do we need to file separate SRUs for each?
[12:04] <seb128> rodrigo_, those are not conflicting statements ;-)
[12:05] <seb128> rodrigo_, usually .1 are fine but we still need a bug because they need a week testing and fixes verification and no regression testing
[12:05] <seb128> rodrigo_, if they fix any bug open in launchpad you can just use those bugs, no need to open a specific SRU bug
[12:07] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, what about the other fixes that are not in LP?
[12:07] <seb128> rodrigo_, the paperwork is quite low, just make sure you have a bug reference in the changelog which can be used for the tracking, subscribe ubuntu-sru and add a testcase if possible
[12:07] <rodrigo_> well, not talking about that one, but others more important that are upstream
[12:07] <seb128> rodrigo_, that's fine, you need at least 1 bug for the tracking, if the upload fixes 0 known launchpad bug you need to open an "update to 3.2.1" one for tracking
[12:07] <rodrigo_> ok
[12:07] <seb128> rodrigo_, if the upload also fixes 10 other bugs it's fine
[12:08] <rodrigo_> ok cool
[12:08] <rodrigo_> because g-c-c has had a lot of fixes
[12:08] <seb128> I noticed ;-)
[12:21] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Hi Rodrigo, wondering if you saw https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-October/003308.html
[12:22] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, yes, I even replied to it, didn't I?
[12:22] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Did you? I didn't get that...
[12:23] <Kaleo> chrisccoulson: nope, nothing
[12:23] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: ... and it's not in the mail archive.
[12:23] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, ah sorry, I replied to the original message, not to yours
[12:24] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, btw, I've fixed a few of the issues we talked about in git, hopefully will have all solved for 3.2.1 next week
[12:25] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, out for lunch now, bbiab
[12:29] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Ok. I'm going to be off keyboard for a few hours now (back about 16.00 UTC). Wondering if you have any comments on using accountsservice in the way I outlined.
[12:47] <pedro_> hello folks, happy release day!
[12:47]  * pedro_ crossing fingers
[12:47] <pedro_> hope i don't jynx it
[12:48] <seb128> pedro_, hola senior ;-)
[12:48] <seb128> cyphermox, there?
[12:51] <mterry> What do people do with specs that are happening again this cycle?  Since they generally have -o- in the name, do ya'll prefer to rename the spec or to create a new one?  (i.e. prefer to break links or dup content)
[12:53] <seb128> mterry, I tend to dup content and cross reference
[12:53] <seb128> but I don't claim it's the right way ;-)
[12:53] <seb128> let's wait if pitti has a strong opinion either way
[12:54] <ogra_> hmm, did we drop the "text" cmdline option for lightdm ?
[12:54] <mterry> seb128, the librarian in me also leans towards duplicating content to retain archival record  :)
[12:54]  * ogra_ has several users complaining
[12:54] <ogra_> is that on purpose or a bug ?
[12:55] <mterry> ogra_, I don't know.  robert_ancell would know
[12:57] <seb128> ogra_, "text"?
[12:57] <seb128> mterry, I think duplicating is better to not break also charts, etc from previous cycles
[12:58]  * mterry duplicates
[12:58] <seb128> not sure they get updated but as you said it wrong invalidate the links
[12:58] <seb128> mterry, btw not sure if you read ubuntu-desktop@, I've posted about GNOME 3.2 and 3.4 today, I welcome comments ;-)
[12:58] <ogra_> seb128, yes, to suppress the graphical mode you could add "text" to your kernel cmdline in gdm, thats a massively used feature in non grub environments
[12:58] <seb128> mterry, or at least I would welcome if people think about it before UDS and come with an opinion ;-)
[12:59] <mterry> seb128, I wish they'd stop innovating in the platform layer (gtk, glib) so it makes our lives easier  :)
[12:59] <seb128> same here
[12:59] <seb128> ogra_, that has nothing to do with the dm, it's an init script thing no?
[12:59] <ogra_> seb128, and lightdm doesnt ship the lightdm upstart job script ?
[13:00] <seb128> ogra_, ?
[13:00] <seb128> ogra_, what else would ship it?
[13:00] <ogra_> its an init script thing, you are right ... a thing of the DM initscript :)
[13:00] <seb128> oh ok
[13:00] <ogra_> kdm and gdm have it
[13:00] <seb128> when you say "lightdm bug" I think "bug in the lightdm code"
[13:00] <ogra_> not sure about xdm
[13:00] <seb128> not init script bug
[13:00] <ogra_> ah
[13:01] <ogra_> nah, its a missing line (or two) in the upstart script
[13:01] <seb128> it's well possible that nobody use it and that we didn't notice
[13:01] <ogra_> iirc it was pretty trivially implemented in gdm
[13:01] <seb128> but patches are welcome ;-)
[13:01] <mterry> seb128, do you know how much churn there is planned for the UI parts of GNOME?  I haven't seen much noise about new Features in the GNOME mailing list.
[13:01] <ogra_> in my world everyone uses it (but nobody complained, they all use linaro images during developemnt)
[13:02] <seb128> mterry, https://live.gnome.org/ThreePointThree/Features
[13:02] <ogra_> it only showed up today ... sadly its TI who is complaining, i'll send a patch next week
[13:02] <seb128> mterry, so "not a lot" that impacts us
[13:02] <seb128> mterry, but I guess they will want to get the application menu thing done which will mean adding api to glib and make all application consume it
[13:03] <ogra_> seb128, bug 873334 in case you are intrested
[13:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 873334 in lightdm "missing support for 'text' command" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873334
[13:03] <seb128> mterry, which means depends on the new glib...
[13:03] <mterry> seb128, since I think we probably want to keep up with glib regardless, taking the (suspected) polish release of 3.4 is probably a win.  But I'm not certain on either side of that sentence
[13:03] <ogra_> (might have a patch too, i didnt check)
[13:03] <seb128> mterry, did you read my email?
[13:03] <mterry> seb128, yeah
[13:03] <seb128> mterry, I'm really nervous with glib, the g_thread changes seem to break gtkmm and who knows what else
[13:04] <mterry> seb128, it sounds like it's landing early at least
[13:04] <seb128> they are still refactoring but I don't like a shaking glib in a lts :p
[13:04] <seb128> but I guess I will need to talk with desrt about it
[13:04] <mterry> seb128, it was nice for us to stick with 2.x for natty though
[13:05] <mterry> seb128, but it would also mean we sit out new releases twice in three cycles  :)
[13:05] <ricotz> seb128, hi, indeed, glib git is pretty shaky ;)
[13:06] <seb128> mterry, well maybe we become better at staying out of crack and users will appreciate the stability win ;-)
[13:07] <ricotz> people like new stuff likewise too ;)
[13:07] <mterry> seb128, different kind of user, yeah.  :)  Cross-chasm users win.  you know, I've long felt that GNOME should keep platform dependencies one release back (i.e. no one in 3.4 should use this new glib) to keep down on churn.  Poor GNOME developers are always chasing breakages and such.  Would help us with this stuff too
[13:08] <seb128> mterry, I would love that
[13:08] <mterry> The transition to gtk 3.x was an obvious pain point that the gtk devs want to do again soon with 4.x last I heard
[13:08] <seb128> it's my feeling as well
[13:08] <seb128> only GNOME is crazy enough to require unstable platform versions to build their application layer
[13:09] <seb128> ricotz, well, most non-geeky users value a working system over "new stuff"
[13:09] <seb128> LTS is meant to be stable and usable by corporates as well
[13:10] <seb128> it's not a "let's run the latest crack which is shiny but hit a bug every 5 minutes and don't let me get work done" ;-)
[13:10] <ricotz> seb128, exactly, i know, just saying there are a lot people out there like to new stuff
[13:10] <ricotz> for a LTS release it is of course more important to keep it stable
[13:11] <seb128> ricotz, well, "lot", there is lot of people who like blue over green
[13:11] <seb128> ricotz, or lot of people who don't like computers
[13:11] <seb128> you can find "lot" of people to justify any decision :p
[13:11] <ricotz> alright, alright
[13:11] <ricotz> let#
[13:12] <seb128> I guess that if we stayed on 3.2 we would have a ppa for 3.4
[13:12] <ricotz> let's say "some" :P
[13:12] <kenvandine> mterry, on the flip side, at least the tool kit is progressing faster now
[13:12] <seb128> though I don't like the idea to have a crack glib in a ppa
[13:12] <mterry> kenvandine, yeah, I love innovation.  I just want it to reach developers after a stable release  ;)
[13:12] <kenvandine> indeed, it is just hard to balance that
[13:12] <mterry> seb128, meh.  The 3.0 PPA was full of crack already.  it was non-downgradable
[13:13] <seb128> well, I probably sound like pro-stay-on-3.2 right now in that discussion
[13:13] <seb128> which is not really true, I'm balanced
[13:13] <seb128> I think I really need desrt to do a round of convincing on me that the new glib is not that unstable :p
[13:14] <mterry> seb128, he's biased  ;)
[13:14] <ricotz> mterry, there were a lot of packaging changes, which made it a bit hard
[13:14] <mterry> ricotz, yeah, not blaming anything.  Just saying that we were willing to accept a crack PPA once, we could do it again
[13:14] <ricotz> currently glib seems to be quite unstable for me at least
[13:15] <seb128> mterry, right, but if he says "yeah, it's a bit of change and will need some testing" I will be decided on 3.2, if he says "it's well tested and almost all done already, you have plenty of time to make sure it works" I'm not sure ;-)
[13:15] <ricotz> mterry, yes, but it didnt include a minor version bump of glib/gtk
[13:15] <ricotz> which would be a case now
[13:15] <kenvandine> seb128, shhhh... now he knows how to answer that question :)
[13:16] <seb128> I guess part of it will be when we get "<ricotz> currently glib seems to be quite unstable for me at least" over
[13:16] <kenvandine> oh, he isn't online :)
[13:16] <kenvandine> we're safe
[13:16] <seb128> kenvandine, he is, just not on this channel
[13:16] <cyphermox> seb128: there now
[13:16] <seb128> cyphermox, hey, mvo was looking for you
[13:16] <mterry> seb128, even in the absence of a glib update, I think I'd still be leery.  You have more institutional memory than me.  Do you think past LTS releases benefitted from having latest GNOME?
[13:17] <seb128> cyphermox, but I see you ponged back
[13:17] <cyphermox> aye, probably about what was discussed in #u-d, I'll read the backlog
[13:17] <seb128> mterry, I've tried to summarize that in my email, I think we can't really apply that knowledge here
[13:17] <seb128> mterry, lucid was 2.30, .30 on a serie is not the same as .2
[13:18] <seb128> mterry, i.e g-c-c and g-s-d have still rough edges in .2 and I think we will want .4 for those
[13:19] <mterry> seb128, eh, .2 to .4 doesn't strike me as that different.  We're past the reason for the 3.x change.
[13:19] <mterry> seb128, we backported such goodies (g-c-c and g-s-d changes) for 11.04.  Was painful, but doable
[13:20] <seb128> mterry, right, I'm just nervous that things in 3.4 start using new glib apis and make that harder ;-)
[13:20] <mterry> seb128, for 11.04 we had a new gtk; I think same level of pain
[13:22] <rickspencer3> seb128, mterry, cyphermox, kenvandine looks like Ubuntu 11.10 is out ... sweeeet!
[13:22] <kenvandine> woot
[13:23] <kenvandine> i upgraded my wife yesterday and she didn't even notice, which is a very good thing
[13:23] <kenvandine> she hates upgrades :)
[13:23] <ricotz> seb128, i.e. clutter already needs glib git
[13:24] <mterry> rickspencer3, wooo!
[13:24] <didrocks> nice rickspencer3 :)
[13:24] <seb128> rickspencer3, \o/
[13:24] <seb128> ricotz, well if we don't update glib we obviously don't update clutter ;-)
[13:25]  * pitti ^5s the team
[13:26] <pitti> Ocelot! Ocelot! Ocelot! *meeeeeeow*
[13:26] <kenvandine> :-D
[13:26] <ricotz> seb128, right, i mean core libs already started to depend on it, so it is likely the usage grows way more soon
[13:26] <ricotz> pitti, hehe
[13:26] <jasoncwarner_> Hi everyone!
[13:26] <jasoncwarner_> congrats on the release!
[13:27] <seb128> ricotz, I've no doubt everything in 3.4 will depends on the current glib
[13:27] <jasoncwarner_> And, for those that didn't see this yet, check out the Ubuntu tour! http://www.ubuntu.com/tour/
[13:27] <didrocks> congrats to you jasoncwarner_ as well :)
[13:27] <seb128> like everything in 3.2 depends on 2.30
[13:27] <seb128> that's the GNOME way
[13:27] <kenvandine> hey jasoncwarner_
[13:27] <kenvandine> jasoncwarner_, and you too!
[13:27] <jasoncwarner_> hey kenvandine and didrocks congrats!
[13:27] <ricotz> seb128, yes, but not this ealier in the cycle ;)
[13:27] <didrocks> waow, the online tour looks cool :)
[13:28] <smspillaz> yeah, it's awesome
[13:28] <pedro_> the tour is awesome :-)
[13:28] <seb128> mterry, ricotz, kenvandine: ok, desrt is really confident that the glib update will not be an issue
[13:28] <kenvandine> i am more worried about a gtk4 update... with the clutter stuff moving i bet that will be real bumpy
[13:28] <cyphermox> rickspencer3: yup, very cool
[13:28] <seb128> mterry, ricotz, kenvandine: he said the work was aimed at be done previous week and is almost over and that their testsuit is quite solid and they didn't run into lot of issue and he's commited to fix bugs we find
[13:28] <kenvandine> great
[13:29] <ricotz> good :)
[13:29] <seb128> mterry, ricotz, kenvandine: so I guess I'm leaning toward the "let's update glib and gtk, and think about GNOME then", we might want to update only selected components or backport
[13:29] <didrocks> seb128: even with the new menu thing? in glib
[13:30] <kenvandine> wow, the online tour is very well done
[13:31] <ricotz> seb128, ok
[13:32] <pitti> yeah, just said the same in #release -- /tour is awesome
[13:32] <pitti> kudos to whomever did that
[13:32] <pitti> and it's 100 times faster than the actual thing! :)
[13:32] <didrocks> pitti: come on! :p
[13:32] <seb128> didrocks, new apis are never an issue since they are virtually not there until you use them
[13:32] <didrocks> pitti: do you infer we should switch to flash/html5? :)
[13:32] <kenvandine> holy crap, the browser in the online tour already has me signed to google :)
[13:32] <kenvandine> freaky!
[13:33] <pitti> even the shotwell buttons work
[13:33] <seb128> didrocks, so I don't mind much if glib get a new menu api we don't use (yet) ;-)
[13:33] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, I was wondering if any break was planned in the menu part of gnome-shell
[13:33] <didrocks> but the plan sounds cool
[13:33] <didrocks> update glib, gtk, see for the rest
[13:34] <seb128> didrocks, well the shell will follow what we do for the rest of GNOME, ie. stay on 3.2 if we decide to not update the desktop
[13:35] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, I meant, they won't break the way current shell menu is handled, it's only new API?
[13:35] <seb128> right
[13:36] <seb128> glib is api,abi stable
[13:36] <seb128> they will not break anything in use or change any behaviour
[13:36] <seb128> so no worry on that ;-)
[13:36] <desrt> ricotz: hey. you talking smack about my software? :)
[13:37] <seb128> lol
[13:37] <seb128> desrt, we are all, don't worry
[13:37]  * desrt feels so popular!
[13:37] <seb128> I can give names including mterry kenvandine didrocks
[13:37] <kenvandine> hehe
[13:37] <kenvandine> :)
[13:37] <ricotz> desrt, just saying it gives me headaches ;)
[13:37] <kenvandine> "smack" in a very loving way :-p
[13:38] <desrt> ricotz: i'd like to know what packaging changes were required
[13:38] <desrt> because i'm surprised by that
[13:38] <desrt> the only thing that changed about the installed stuff that i can think about was the deprecated/ headers directory
[13:38] <desrt> and depending on how you wrote the rules, that might require no changes at all
[13:38] <ricotz> desrt, there are no changes
[13:39] <desrt> ah.  okay
[13:39] <desrt> seb said there was a lot of packaging issues
[13:39] <seb128> ok, maybe misunderstanding then
[13:39] <desrt> ricotz: did that abstract unix socket business get sorted?
[13:39] <ricotz> just runtime issues
[13:40] <ricotz> desrt, unfortunatelly not
[13:40] <desrt> oh.  crap :(
[13:40] <seb128> ricotz, what was your "<ricotz> mterry, there were a lot of packaging changes, which made it a bit hard" about?
[13:40]  * desrt thought it was dealt with
[13:40] <ricotz> seb128, this was for the gnome3 ppa (natty)
[13:40] <seb128> ricotz, oh ok
[13:40] <seb128> desrt, sorry, crossed topics and I associated the remark to the wrong one it seems... ;-)
[13:41] <desrt> cool.  so ship glib 2.32 with gnome 3.2
[13:41]  * desrt sits back and watches the result
[13:41] <ricotz> desrt, i need to check with the latest snapshot if something changed
[13:41] <seb128> that's what I'm leaning toward
[13:42] <desrt> seb128: once you have the new glib, we can easily convince you to take the new gtk
[13:42] <desrt> and once you have those two, 100 people will run up to you and say "can you just ship gnome 3.4 version of X?"
[13:42] <desrt> and before you know it, you're on 3.4 :)
[13:46] <seb128> desrt, which indicates that I should push back a bit harder to get the middle-way negociation land on "ok, update gtk and glib and stay on GNOME 3.2" :p
[13:47] <desrt> see?  it's working already
[13:47] <desrt> a moment ago it was only glib
[13:47] <desrt> now your starting out point for negotiation is "okay.. just glib and gtk"
[13:47] <desrt> you have the bargaining skills of barack obama
[13:47] <seb128> lol
[13:48] <seb128> desrt, we kept GNOME3 out of natty, don't try me too hard :p
[13:48] <desrt> ya... but natty was the "we hate gnome" release
[13:48] <desrt> so it was understandable
[13:49] <desrt> consistency of message and all...
[13:49] <seb128> ;-)
[13:49] <seb128> maybe the april versions are "hate GNOME "ones ;-)
[13:49] <desrt> dobey: congrats.  you've managed to write a buggy hello world
[13:50] <desrt> actually, it won't even compile
[13:52] <dobey> desrt: no. <pre> broke
[13:52] <desrt> dobey: <pre> isn't "stop being XML for a while" mode
[13:52] <desrt> that's CDATA :)
[13:53] <desrt> dobey: but i was originally referring to the lack of \n
[13:54] <dobey> desrt: well \n isn't required
[13:55] <desrt> it's required if the intention is to print a message rather than prefix my PS1 :)
[13:56] <dobey> whatever, it has a million fewer bugs than glib/gio/gobject :)
[13:56] <dobey> and Python damages brain cells
[13:58] <didrocks> hum, on the Oneiric announcement, I doubt Victor Hugo wrote it in English :-)
[13:58] <ogra_> didrocks, but you write in english too !
[13:58] <seb128> ;-)
[13:58] <seb128> pitti, hey
[13:59] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: around?
[13:59] <didrocks> ogra_: zomg, I'm confused! :-)
[13:59] <chrisccoulson> jasoncwarner_, yeah
[13:59] <seb128> pitti, on the "GNOME 3.2 against 3.4" or at least "new glib or not" discussion I would welcome your opinion on the gobject-introspection situation
[13:59] <dobey> ugh, gobject-introspection
[13:59] <seb128> pitti, i.e is what we have in Oneiric good for the LTS if we want to stay on it or is it still rough on the edge and we would benefit from updating it
[14:00] <ogra_> didrocks, you could start  a vendetta and just quote shakespeare in a blogpost in french !
[14:00] <didrocks> ogra_: totally agree, time to act! :-)
[14:00] <dobey> ogra_: or at least the original klingon
[14:00] <ogra_> :)
[14:01] <ogra_> dobey, shakespeare is originally written in klingon ?
[14:01] <ogra_> geez, i didnt know ... that explains a lot !
[14:02] <czajkowski> ogra_: are you in london ?
[14:02] <dobey> ogra_: http://www.kli.org/stuff/Hamlet.html
[14:03] <ogra_> cjwatson, nope, are you ?
[14:06] <Nafai> Thanks for the great work guys!
[14:35] <pitti> bryceh: I like your "libxrandr" plan; is that something that the upstream X.org guys would adopt?
[14:37] <seb128> pedro_, hey
[14:38] <pedro_> seb128, hello
[14:39]  * pitti -> supermarket, bbl
[14:40] <seb128> pedro_, I've been using your services and I'm disappointed, I want my money back!
[14:41] <pedro_> seb128, do you have the receipt?
[14:41] <seb128> pedro_, no, I lost it :-(
[14:41] <pedro_> sorry no receipt no money
[14:41] <seb128> :-(
[14:41] <seb128> pedro_, joke aside is http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-desktop/oneiric.html working as it should?
[14:41] <pedro_> you can talk with rodrigo_ who is in charge of customer service though
[14:41] <seb128> pedro_, the list seems small to me, I know I've been doing "target oneiric" on bugs regularly while triaging
[14:42] <rodrigo_> pedro_, you're hiring me?
[14:42] <pedro_> seb128, I did some modifications to it today, cause i was using the 'development' release
[14:42] <pedro_> seb128, I'll have a look
[14:42] <rodrigo_> yes, I've seen some bugs not showing on pedro_'s list neither, so I want my money back also
[14:42] <seb128> pedro_, thanks
[14:42] <seb128> pedro_, i.e https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/gnome-control-center/+bugs
[14:42] <seb128> pedro_, g-c-c by itself has almost as many items at your oneiric list
[14:43] <seb128> pedro_, second request, can we get a "source" column?
[14:43] <pedro_> yup that's easy to add
[14:43] <pedro_> should be there on the next update
[14:46] <seb128> pedro_, thank you ;-)
[14:46] <seb128> pedro_, can you make 2 lists btw, one oneiric and one precise?
[14:46] <seb128> pedro_, I think it would be good to have both, SRU and next cycle
[14:48] <pedro_> seb128, yeah i was planning to have a separate one for precise, otherwise there's no good way to track things
[14:48] <pedro_> seb128, so yeah it will appear there soon
[14:49] <pedro_> and btw the problem (not much tasks being listed) it was due to todays change, i'm fixing it now
[14:49]  * pedro_ kicks lp
[14:50] <seb128> pedro_, \o/
[15:03] <seb128> mterry, bug #863773
[15:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 863773 in gedit "gedit crashed with SIGSEGV in __memcpy_ssse3()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/863773
[15:03] <mterry> seb128, man, gedit's having a rough time of it
[15:03] <seb128> mterry, is that anything similar to the gtksourceview or gedit bugs you fixed recently?
[15:03] <seb128> mterry, I'm wondering if that's a dup of the gtksourceview ref issue
[15:04] <seb128> mterry, and yeah, though most fallouts seems to be due to the gobject-instropection transition
[15:05] <seb128> or third party code
[15:05] <mterry> seb128, even with my fixes for the other bugs, I can reproduce this crash
[15:06] <mterry> seb128, I can look into it
[15:06] <seb128> mterry, that would be great, thanks ;-)
[15:18] <ricotz> seb128, do you know if using a multiarched cairo on natty would break anything? (i havent tested it yet)
[15:19] <seb128> ricotz, I've not tried so not sure, maybe slangasek has an better clue about it ;-)
[15:20] <ricotz> as i understand, as long there are no fixed paths for plugins/modules or rpath links to libcairo, it should work
[15:21] <ricotz> and ldconfig should take care of finding it
[15:22] <ricotz> seb128, jfyi, xorg-edgers includes a cairo 1.11.3 snapshot with enabled gl/egl backend
[15:22] <seb128> ricotz, ok
[15:22] <seb128> ricotz, is there any schedule for 1.12?
[15:22] <ricotz> which seems to work fine with nvidia blob 285.05.09
[15:22] <seb128> oh?
[15:23] <seb128> well the issue was nvidia drivers, did they fix it?
[15:23] <seb128> ricotz, did you check the memory usage? the issue before was that each gl process was using extra memory, which means each gtk application when cairo brings in gl
[15:23] <seb128> i.e it worked fine before
[15:23] <ricotz> i am not sure about their schedule, but they wanted to release a new version
[15:24] <seb128> it just increases resources usage
[15:24] <ricotz> the annoying symptoms are gone, like freezing apps
[15:24] <seb128> well that's not why we reverted in natty
[15:24] <ricotz> i havent noticed the mem issue
[15:24] <seb128> we did it because of the memory usage
[15:24] <seb128> well you probably have enough ram that it doesn't matter
[15:24] <slangasek> seb128, ricotz: well, I have a cairo for natty in https://launchpad.net/~vorlon/+archive/multiarch/+packages, so I was running natty with it
[15:24] <seb128> try a session with it and without it and compare
[15:25] <seb128> slangasek, thanks
[15:25] <ricotz> slangasek, ok, thanks
[15:26] <ricotz> seb128, do you know which processes consumes more memory?
[15:27] <ricotz> i guess everything gtk related?
[15:27] <seb128> ricotz, what I said, each, they carry a copy of libgl in process or something
[15:27] <seb128> ricotz, each gtk one at least since gtk uses cairo which uses gl
[15:27] <ricotz> ah, alright
[15:27] <seb128> which when we open 15 applications can do a difference
[15:28] <ricotz> i see, with 8gb ram i wont get hurt so much here
[16:19] <pitti> good night everyone! enjoy your evening
[16:21] <didrocks> have a good evening pitti!
[16:24] <seb128> 'night pitti
[16:24] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: still there?
[16:24] <seb128> pitti, others: oh, I'm on holidays tomorrow btw
[16:24] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, yes
[16:24] <seb128> well I might be around in the morning
[16:24] <pitti> seb128: ah, enjoy!
[16:24] <rodrigo_> seb128, cool, have fun!
[16:25] <seb128> I start taking fridays off because I will not manage to empty my remaining holidays before end of year otherwise ;-)
[16:25] <seb128> thanks
[16:25] <rodrigo_> seb128, I can exchange some of your days off if you feel like :D
[16:25] <rodrigo_> seb128, I can give you beer for days off :D
[16:25] <seb128> rodrigo_, no, thanks :p
[16:25] <rodrigo_> :(
[16:26] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Do you have some time to talk about the accountsservice approach I mentioned?
[16:27] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, yes
[16:28] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Ok, remember what I wrote at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-October/003308.html ?
[16:29] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, yes
[16:29] <bryceh> pitti, that's the idea
[16:31] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, about accountsservice storing all the locale settings, we already discussed it with upstream some months ago
[16:31] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: The thought is to host code for 1. listing available languages and 2. setting a new language in accountsservice. Right now language-selector does not have own code for that, but relies on accountsservice. Patch 52 also uses that code.
[16:31] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, they didn't want to, but I guess I'll restart the discussion
[16:31] <rodrigo_> yes, the region panel sets the language via accountsservice
[16:32] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, about listing available languages
[16:32] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Yes, but SetLanguage in a-s differs between Ubuntu and GNOME right now.
[16:32] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, we are adding the install-language to PackageKit (and aptdaemon), so maybe it should be there?
[16:33] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, why does it differ?
[16:34] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Handling language packages is something else, isn't it?
[16:34] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, yes, but it's going to have to keep a list of installed languages, and it knows how
[16:34] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, although I'm pretty sure there is a simpler way to get the list of *all* languages
[16:35] <rodrigo_> and then, in the region panel, we'll show them differently if they are installed or not
[16:35] <rodrigo_> and allow the user to install non-installed ones
[16:37] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: It differs, I suppose, because Ubuntu and GNOME hasn't talked to each other in the past as much as they should. ;-)  It shouldn't be very difficult to find one model that everyone is comfortable with.
[16:37] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, I think it is because lightdm doesn't call accountsservice to know what lang the user has selected
[16:38] <rodrigo_> g-c-c uses the glibc locale stuff, so that should work also on ubuntu
[16:39] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: As regards the language list, there are more than one translation for certain languages, so when I say "language" in this context I mean "translation". It's important to handle that aspect in a smooth way, IMO, and the code that is currently hosted by a-s does just that.
[16:40] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, right
[16:40] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Well, lightdm doesn't query a-s when setting the environment because the whole picture isn't stored as a-s properties yet. Only ~/.profile holds it all.
[16:41] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, the language is
[16:41] <rodrigo_> I think that's what gdm does
[16:41] <rodrigo_> and yes, we need to have the regional settings in a-s also
[16:43] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, I'm still looking at what's the diff between how we retrieve the language list in ubuntu and in gnome, to fix it for both
[16:43] <rodrigo_> I'll let you know as soon as I have a fix for you to test
[16:43] <rodrigo_> till now, I've fixed the 'showing languages that are not available' in the main list
[16:44] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Ok. But please note that I'm trying to avoid duplication also. One advantage with keeping code for listing and setting languages in a-s is that it can then be used also by login managers that provide language choosers.
[16:44] <rodrigo_> yeah
[16:45] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Keep code for handling language/locale related pieces at one place, to avoid confusion and make maintenance easier.
[16:45] <GunnarHj> s/pieces/bits and pieces/
[16:47] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Please note that I'm not trying to say that everything in that a-s code is perfect - it's indeed work in progress. It's the coordination I think is desirable.
[16:49] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, yes, sure
[16:50] <chrisccoulson> who is the developer of http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/10/simple-lightdm-manager-lets-easily-tweak-ubuntu-11-10-login-screen/ ?
[16:50] <chrisccoulson> it should be in extras :)
[16:50] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Is it worth it for me to check out the current g-c-c now, or should I better wait?
[16:51] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, if you want to test what's in git, that'd be great
[16:52] <rodrigo_> GunnarHj, although still missing several of the fixes we talked about
[16:52] <jbicha> chrisccoulson: it looks like Claudio Novais
[16:53] <rodrigo_> have to get out now for a bit, bbl
[16:53] <GunnarHj> rodrigo_: Ok, see you then.
[17:17] <didrocks> ok, enough for today, have a good evening everyone and good week-end seb128 :)
[18:42] <pdtpatrick> Question .. is there a problem with ssh ? it randomly stops accepting your paraphrase or it would work for every host but then on one it would ask and fail
[19:16] <BigWhale> the me menu and other menus in the menu bar are now click-and-hold type of menus?!?
[19:17] <chrisccoulson> BigWhale, no
[19:17] <chrisccoulson> do you use 2 monitors?
[19:18] <Nafai> yeah, I noticed the same thing
[19:18] <Nafai> 2 monitors here
[19:18] <BigWhale> chrisccoulson, yes
[19:18] <chrisccoulson> BigWhale, bug 869196
[19:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 869196 in unity-2d "unity panel menus don't stay open when clicked on second monitor with different geometry" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/869196
[19:19]  * BigWhale bursts into tears. Always me and my crazy setups.
[19:22] <BigWhale> chrisccoulson, thanks for the info. :)
[19:26] <pedro_> any dbus expert in the room ? ;-)
[19:26] <pedro_> bug 811441
[19:26] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 811441 in dbus "Unable to connect to the system bus: Failed to connect to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: Connection refused (oneiric)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/811441
[19:26] <pedro_> i was pinged by a couple of friends that upgraded to Oneiric and are hitting that issue
[19:26] <chrisccoulson> cjwatson ^^
[19:26] <chrisccoulson> didn't you mention something about this yesterday?
[19:27] <pedro_> looks like the only way to resolve for them is to remove /var/run/dbus/*
[19:27] <pedro_> was that the race condition you guys were talking about it yesterday?
[19:28] <pedro_> seb128, FYI the Oneiric page is fixed and showing the package name
[19:30] <seb128> pedro_, thanks
[19:30] <pedro_> you're welcome