[00:14] <chilts> hmmm ... not sure this is true yet : https://twitter.com/#!/packetslave/status/124270413927809024
[00:14] <chilts> but sad if it is
[00:15] <ojwb> steve jobs has died?
[00:15] <ojwb> too soon?
[00:17] <ojwb> ah, yes - sad indeed
[00:17] <ojwb> that took forever to load
[00:17] <ajmitch> it's twitter, it's usually slow to load
[00:17]  * ojwb wonders how much data twitter pushes at you to send you 140 characters of "useful" info
[00:18] <chilts> yeah, load a skeleton page, then a tonne of JavaScript, then the real page
[00:18] <chilts> I assume
[00:19] <ojwb> and the pointless use of #! doesn't help
[00:21] <chilts> one of your bugbears in life :)
[00:21] <ojwb> yep
[01:12] <chilts> yeah, it's real - https://plus.google.com/101960720994009339267/posts
[01:15] <ajmitch> but I guess that it won't make the news quite as much as steve jobs did
[01:15] <ojwb> slick presentation beats useful content
[01:15] <chilts> yeah, that's sad ... he changed far more lives (for the better) than Jobs did, yet he'll get very little news
[01:16] <chilts> one helped create somethig really useful, the other used much of it for his own gain ... yet it's the latter that'll get more good press
[01:17] <ajmitch> of course, he was far more visible
[01:18] <ojwb> dennis ritchie used an ipod for his own gain?
[01:19] <chilts> because he made far more money I assume
[01:19] <chilts> ojwb: volumne gain maybe :)
[01:19] <chilts> s/volumne/volume/
[01:38] <ajmitch> elky: I don't know why I go in that channel every 6 months...
[01:39] <elky> ajmitch, it's called masochism.
[01:39] <ajmitch> must be
[01:40] <ajmitch> like watching a car crash in slow motion
[01:40] <elky> One does need to remember that having that channel there keeps the majority of flaming turd out of the main channels.
[01:40] <ajmitch> true
[01:40] <ajmitch> I also avoid #ubuntu though
[01:40] <elky> Which, really, is it's primary purpose.
[01:41] <elky> Yeah, the channels are not what they used to be.
[01:41] <ajmitch> that's sort of expected, ubuntu's not what it was 4 or 5 years ago
[01:41] <elky> I'm still waiting for the day I snap and swear off the entire internet based on the ubuntu irc namespace.
[01:42] <ajmitch> it's not so bad if you don't deal with users :)
[01:42] <elky> In theory.
[01:44]  * ajmitch shall probably be asleep at the time that 11.10 is released, and won't really care either way
[01:50] <mwhudson> ajmitch: #u-r-p?
[01:50] <ajmitch> yeah
[01:51] <ojwb> #ubuntu-release-patiently?
[01:52] <ajmitch> -party
[01:53] <mwhudson> i loiter, but try not to read :-)
[01:53] <ojwb> presumably more like -impatiently
[01:53] <ajmitch> ojwb: the most common question being "is it out yet?"
[01:53] <ojwb> oo err
[01:53] <ajmitch> & then various people ranting on about politics
[01:54] <ojwb> this is the only ubuntu channel i spend more than the minimum time required in
[01:55] <ajmitch> #debian-devel is so much more fun? :)
[01:55] <chilts> I saw the Ubuntu Monospace font on Google Web Fonts the other day .. I thought it was only for certain people who had registered their interest :)
[01:55] <chilts> I guess someone leaked it
[01:55] <ajmitch> chilts: no, released rather than leaked
[01:55] <chilts> ah, ok, that's good news
[01:55] <chilts> I'll go and get it :)
[01:57] <ajmitch> font.ubuntu.com looks to be the place for it
[01:57] <ajmitch> & it's in oneiric from the look of things
[02:01] <hads> I think I'm actually intersted in grabbing the image this time. Someone gave me a laptop two days ago to install Ubuntu on. Was going to use Natty but I guess I'll use Oneiric now.
[02:01] <elky> ajmitch, heh
[02:01] <ajmitch> elky: hm? :)
[02:01] <elky> flee
[02:02] <ajmitch> yeah I gave up
[02:03] <ojwb> ajmitch: well, sometimes that's kind of depressing too, but in different ways
[02:04] <ajmitch> usually the smaller team channels are more fun, when you get to know the people
[02:14] <elky> Depends which team.
[02:15] <chilts> Ubuntu Monospace in Emacs compared to what I've had for years (new one at top) : http://f.dollyfish.net.nz/ac5e3b
[02:15] <chilts> looks quite nice, though I'll have to turn it on by default to get used to it
[02:15] <ajmitch> chilts: you've been using a nasty looking font for awhile :)
[02:16] <chilts> yeah
[02:16] <ajmitch> :family "Bitstream Vera Sans Mono"
[02:16] <chilts> though I've been so used to it, I've never switched
[02:16] <ajmitch> looks like that's what I have set up
[02:16] <chilts> nah, I'll just use this Ubuntu Mono one :)
[02:18] <chilts> now I need to get it into my terminal!
[02:18]  * ajmitch uses gnome-terminal, probably too used to the default font to switch
[02:18] <chilts> I use (u)rxvt, so I'm sure I can switch it
[02:19] <ajmitch> I just have to discover where to change the default font in oneiric :)
[02:19] <chilts> I don't use Gnome (as you can see from the screenshot) :)
[02:20] <ajmitch> I'm using a pretty default setup with unity
[02:20] <chilts> so I need to figure it out for X I think ... I've tried .Xdefaults but not sure that's the right place
[02:21] <ajmitch> font configuration looks to have been hidden away in oneiric, probably too complicated for people to handle
[02:22] <ojwb> chilts: is the lower on GNU unifont?
[02:22] <ojwb> lower one
[02:22] <chilts> dunno, let me check : this is from my .emacs -> (set-default-font "-misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--13-100-100-100-c-70-iso8859-1")
[02:22] <chilts> so who knows
[02:23] <chilts> now reads : (set-default-font "-misc-Ubuntu Mono-medium-r-normal--13-100-100-100-c-70-iso8859-1")
[02:23] <chilts> so the chars are the same size and therefore so my windows are the same width for 80 or 120 char columns :D
[02:25] <ojwb> it's not unifont (the bottom of the y curls up on yours) but it's very similar in look
[02:25] <ojwb> http://unifoundry.com/bmp-ref/uni00.bmp
[17:48] <Atamira> Morning all
[18:31] <ajmitch> morning
[18:47] <chilts> morning
[18:58] <ibeardslee> morning
[19:03] <ibeardslee> sigh
[19:24] <ajmitch> so everyone's upgraded to 11.10 by now?
[19:38] <ibeardslee> well not the final release
[19:38] <ibeardslee> unless there have been no changes since the last update a couple of days ago
[19:42] <ajmitch> the majority of the changes are going into oneiric-proposed, the others that went into the release look to mostly be installer-related
[19:42] <mwhudson> morning
[19:42] <mwhudson> i guess i should upgrade then...
[19:44] <ibeardslee> dooo eeet
[19:44] <ajmitch> mwhudson: I thought you'd have upgraded at beta
[19:45] <mwhudson> ajmitch: the policy of 'canonical people upgrade at beta' seems to have softened of late
[19:45] <mwhudson> and i somehow never got around to it...
[19:46] <ibeardslee> I had some fun yesterday before leaving late from work
[19:46] <ajmitch> mwhudson: oh well, something to do over the weekend when you're not needing your laptop for work :)
[19:46] <ibeardslee> tried to get rid of the need to click and drag rather than click and click
[19:59] <chilts> so are people working in Canonical expected to upgrade with each release?
[19:59]  * chilts is still on LTS and will wait for the next LTS :)
[20:00] <mwhudson> chilts: yes, definitely
[20:01] <chilts> I guess it helps find bugs too
[20:01] <ajmitch> next LTS in 6 months, but I suspect that upgrade notification  from 10.04 might show up by 12.04.1
[20:04] <chilts> yeah
[20:04] <mwhudson> "about 4 days 19 hours remaining"
[20:04] <mwhudson> hmm
[20:04] <chilts> oh, and to those who chatted about the Ubuntu Mono font with me yesterday, Emacs and my Terminal are now using it ... I'm already used to it and my eyes are liking it very much
[20:04] <chilts> it's very clean and crisp
[20:05] <chilts> love it in fact
[20:05] <mwhudson> i guess i've never upgraded the day after release before
[20:05] <hads> Grabbed the ISO before I went to bed last night. Am about to do an install on a friends laptop.
[20:06] <ajmitch> from what I saw, nz2.archive.ubuntu.com no longer points to mirror.ihug.co.nz since it was too broken
[20:06]  * ajmitch did manage to track down the mirror admin & he said he'd look at it today though
[20:25] <lifeless> mwhudson: tsk ;)
[20:47] <mwhudson> hey maybe pulseaudio will stop segfaulting in oneiric
[21:33] <lifeless> hahhahahahahahahahahahahhaha
[21:34] <ajmitch> lifeless: you seem to have some doubts about that?
[21:35] <lifeless> ajmitch: pulseaudio is special
[21:35] <ajmitch> oh very special indeed
[21:35] <ajmitch> I've frequently had to kill it to get sound back
[21:36] <mwhudson> i wonder if i would be less uneasy about systemd if I didn't know the same guy started pulseaudio
[21:36] <ajmitch> but systemd is awesome & cool & bugfree
[21:37] <mwhudson> (it's a bit unfair i guess, it's not like the audio situation on linux before pulse was anything other than terrible)
[21:37] <lifeless> mwhudson: its totally fair, because he claims its perfect and Ubuntu broke it
[21:38] <ajmitch> the thing I don't like about systemd is how it's trying to do everything
[21:38] <mwhudson> i see
[21:41] <hads> That tour is pretty darn cool.
[21:42] <mwhudson> thenewubuntu.com is quite shiny too
[21:44] <chilts> ajmitch: I have no sound at the moment, so you recommend just killing pulseaudio and seeing if that 'solves' the problem?
[21:44] <chilts> (noting that this happens from bootup everytime)
[21:45] <ajmitch> chilts: worth a try, probably won't change anything if it happens everytime
[21:46] <chilts> yeah, that's what I figured, but I'll try anyway :)
[21:46] <chilts> thanks
[21:48] <chilts> nah, didn't work ... I'll keep trying different things when I get the energy
[21:48] <chilts> you'd think we could have audio by 2011 though :)
[21:50] <lifeless> chilts: check its not muted
[21:53] <ajmitch> including checking with alsamixer that it's not muted & that the right channels have volume set
[21:53] <ajmitch> too many volume controls gets confusing
[22:25] <lifeless> a well known bug in natty was that on bootup, pulse would be muted
[23:32] <hads> I've discovered that if the power goes out on a suspended box when you boot again networking is disabled.
[23:33] <hads> Not so convenient for HTPCs which have no keyboard/mouse.
[23:38] <ibeardslee> need to buy one of those little keyboard/remote things for it
[23:47] <G> hads: NetworkManager dying or something?
[23:48] <ajmitch> or suspending saves some state which isn't being reset on boot
[23:49] <G> I know on pretty much every Linux system that does NetworkManager by default, I ditch NM for wired interfaces and just use the old init scripts to manage it
[23:51]  * ajmitch has a manual wireless setup on his laptop as well, with wpa_supplicant & /etc/network/interfaces
[23:54] <G> I'm for the most part happy for NetworkManager to admin my Wireless, but yeah
[23:55] <hads> Yeah, likely NM doing silly things. It's only happened once in a blue moon so not looked at it.