[00:00] brandini: Yes. Multiple trees. http://kernel.ubuntu.com [00:01] phew, why couldn't I find that [00:07] GrueMaster: I'm still looking for the assembly code you guys wrote to initialized the panda :) [00:09] I believe TI keeps it in the mach-omap2 stuff under arch/arm. Not sure. [00:09] Or plat-omap. [00:10] they release source for that? [00:13] If you clone the ubuntu/ubuntu-oneiric.git tree, there should be a branch in it for ti-omap4 (iirc). [00:13] thank you :) [00:14] It is a separate branch though, not the main trunk. [00:16] Looks like ubuntu-3.0.0-1205.10 (according to git web). [03:39] lilstevie: ping [03:39] lilstevie: nag re send me known-good u-boot.bin [08:21] lilstevie: poke poke [08:21] whats a good hardware to test ubuntu-arm on ? preferrably a SMP one [08:22] Tegra part of the supported list? [08:22] CodeWar: efikamx should be good, they seem to actually be contributing to debian [08:23] tegra is more like "if the moon is waxing and you're standing on one leg, it works OK...ish" [08:24] We don't have installers for efika systems right now (and they're not SMP). [08:24] If you want SMP, a Toshiba AC100 netbook  or a TI PandaBoard are your best bets. [08:24] infinity: oh, sorry [08:24] AC100s are about the same as TF101s, aren't they? i.e. sucky? [08:24] Mine works great. [08:25] OK [08:25] Outperforms the Panda by no small margin, if it had a US keyboard layout, I'd actually use it as my primary netbook. [08:25] But the Uk keyboard makes me want to kick puppies. :P [08:25] stupid enter key? [08:26] Stupid everything. Keyboard layouts are a religious thing. :) [08:26] AC101 dual core A9 .. decent enough let me look it up [08:26] Well you can remap it if it's just the caps [08:26] CodeWar: It's a Tegra2. [08:27] twb: Yeah, remapping it fails a bit because you end up with a teeny-tiny \| key, due to the enter key eating most of its neighbours. [08:27] yeah OK [08:27] Om now now. [08:27] nom nom too. [08:27] That's one of my biggest hates on keyboards, that big enter key [08:27] Asus Transformer 2 .. is that expected to work :-) [08:28] I mean half the time I type ^M anyway [08:28] would be best [08:28] CodeWar: There have been some people fiddling with the TF2. It has no official support, but I know you can make it work with enough effort. [08:28] CodeWar: I have a TF101 (Eee Pad Transformer 32G); currently it only works with crappy old 2.6.36 [08:28] CodeWar: Panda or AC100 work out of the box, which is appealing if you just want to get to hacking. [08:28] When lilstevie comes back from the pub or his girlfriend's or whatever and helps me, I might make some more progress :P [08:29] thanks guys .. still trying to wrap my head around these various models .. [08:29] infinity, I was a little surprised when I read the release notes, AC100 and IMX.53 (I think?) was listed, but not the Pandaboard. [08:30] (And most devices that ship with Android can just be abused to boot Ubuntu with an Android kernel, but the user experience there will vary, depending) [08:30] That's cheating [08:30] it doesn't count [08:30] diwic: AC100 and i.MX53 were listed as new, omap3 and omap4 were already supported. [08:30] infinity, ok, that explains it, thanks [08:31] You know what would be awesome? If someone sold a complete get-started-on-hacking-Ubuntu-on-ARM kits at UDS. Pandaboard, power supply, SD card with Ubuntu pre-installed, USB-serial dongle, whatever else one might need. [08:31] sheevaplug used to ship with ubuntu pre-installed [08:32] soren: To be fair, that's more or less what you get if you order a Freescale i.MX53. They ship with an SD with Ubuntu. Though, I need to find someone at Freescale to talk to about refreshing their image to use a saner kernel. [08:32] But IMO the goal should be a pure blend [08:32] It would be nice if TI did the same thing with the Panda package, though. [08:32] Not that it's rocket science to download an image and make it go, but the user experince is fairly shiny when it "just works" without having to read. [08:34] infinity: Looking at the i.MX53 now. Glancing at the specs, it looks somewhat less beefy. [08:34] soren: Well, it's a single-core A8, which is less cool than a Panda or AC100, but for people doing a lot of building, the on-baord SATA more than makes up for it. [08:35] infinity: Oh, shiny. I didn't notice that. [08:35] soren: Building most things on A8/A9 systems is almost entirely I/O bound, not CPU. [08:35] infinity: what, you don't use iSCSI pointing at the SAN for everything ? ;-) [08:35] infinity: Ok. Well, let me rephrase then.. [08:35] You know what would be awesome? If someone sold a complete get-started-on-hacking-Ubuntu-on-ARM kits at UDS. Freescale i.MX53, power supply, SD card with Ubuntu pre-installed, USB-serial dongle, whatever else one might need. [08:36] twb: It doesn't matter how cool my networking tech is, you can't get past the part where Pandas have a 100bit ethernet adapter hanging off a USB 2.0 bus. :P [08:36] 100bit? Holy crap. [08:36] Mbit. [08:36] Typing is hard. [08:36] Oh. Those. [08:36] It feels like 100bit. [08:36] that's the uart :P [08:37] (To be clear, I have no issues with the Panda's architecture, it's a dev board meant to be a giant cell phone, and it works great for what it's meant to do... It's just a lousy desktop or build server due to USB being your limiting factor for any storage) [08:38] At least for me, having to buy unknown hardware and bits and pieces just to even get started has put me off for a looong time. Now I've actually bought a pandaboard, but still haven't gotten it to work. [08:38] soren: Flash oneiric image to SD, insert, boot. [08:38] Done that. [08:38] soren: It's pretty straightforward these days. [08:38] Doesn't work. It just lights up very briefly, then turns off. [08:38] No clue why. [08:38] That sounds unpleasant. [08:38] The turning off bit. [08:38] They don't do that. [08:39] I RMA'ed the board (not just for this reason), but the new one does the same. [08:39] Oh, actually, it might do that if it fails to find anything interesting on the SD, I don't recall. [08:39] What the heck. I'll give it another go. [08:39] Wiggle the card, rewrite it moar bettar, use a different one? [08:40] Where' the current "Idiot's guide to Ubuntu on Pandaboard"? [08:40] I've tried two different card. [08:40] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP [08:40] Same micro-SD-regular-SD converter, though. [08:41] Oh, I've had serious issues with micro->regular->Panda, though I'd always assumed it was just my own cards and adapters being shit. [08:41] (Which it probably is) [08:41] Maybe I should see if I could find a regular SD card somewhere. [08:41] ...or just try a different adapter. [08:41] But yeah. SD/MMC is about the worst choice for installatoin media ever, but we have no options. [08:41] HAdn't thought of that. [08:42] infinity: ferrite core [08:42] If I recall, the Panda will just appear to "do notihng" if you light it up and it sees nothing of interest in the SD slot. [08:42] infinity: Well, if no SD card is in, it stays on. [08:42] When my SD card is in, it shuts off. [08:42] Well, nothing of interest, after looking. [08:42] It's a bit fiddly in those first few miliseconds. :P [08:42] After that, it's great! [08:44] I guess it could be the power supply. [08:45] It says it goes up to 2.5A. [08:47] Or dirty power that is pissing it off because it's a switching-mode PSU and thus sensitive to problems in the wave [08:47] We went through three soekris net5501 PSUs here before we gave up [08:49] infinity: The for the PAndaboard I want to use the OMAP4 image, right? [08:50] soren: Yup. [08:51] * soren downloads [08:54] Oops, accidentally grabbed the natty image. Will that work ok? [08:54] It will, but why start out-of-date? [08:54] Especially if you're using SD. Upgrading is SLOW. :P [08:56] I just want to see that damn thing work. [08:56] Also, the oneiric image seems to be more than 3 times bigger. Writing out the natty image takes long enough. [09:03] Holy crap! It stayed on! [09:03] Magic. [09:04] * soren headdesks [09:04] It's been that adapter all along, then! [09:06] And the one I'm using now is identical. *sigh* [09:12] lool, poke [09:17] hmm [09:17] infinity, do you happen to know where the new flash-kernel lives in debian atm ? did it migrate to unstable or is it still in experimental ? [09:18] (i would like to file a sync request ahead of time so we have it immediately after opening) [09:18] ogra_: Not sure. I'd assume either experimental, in some VCS somewhere, or on lool's hard drive. [09:18] i suspect we will run into a pile of issues [09:18] so the sooner we get it the better [09:18] ogra_: I'm not positive that lool thinks it's ready for prime-time, but I haven't talked to him about it for a couple of months. [09:19] i know its ready for the arches we support but might handle things different than we do for these [09:19] ogra_: Given that this is an LTS coming up, I'm not sure I'm inclined to switch. [09:19] i know its not ready for "old" arches [09:19] ogra_: Dealing with the bugs we know seems saner. [09:19] which we dont care about [09:19] and i know its used by default in armhf in debian [09:20] but thats not in any official repo [09:20] Almost. [09:20] But is it? They don't have installation media. [09:20] infinity, well, you had a spec to actually use its database for HW stuff iirc [09:20] and i would like to get rid of the crap ahead of the LTS [09:21] else we need to carry the hackish version for 5 years [09:21] http://ports.debian.net/debian/pool-armhf/main/f/flash-kernel/ [09:21] What does "hf" stand for, btw? [09:21] right, i dont think we can sync from there [09:21] hard float [09:21] soren, hard float [09:21] Ah. [09:22] ogra_, does the official oneiric image for AC100 have working sound? [09:22] ogra_: Eh. I don't mind carrying it for 5 years. Once it's set up, it works. It's not like it's a maintenance burden. [09:22] diwic, btw, doi you remember who waas chiming in when we talked about 5.1 recievers ? i owe him a beer :) [09:22] diwic: It does if you use headphones. [09:22] diwic, only with a kernel update thats not in an SRU yet and with some alsamixer adjustments [09:23] and it breaks after resume from suspend [09:23] but all these issues should be fixable and will make it into SRUs [09:23] ogra_: The problem with that spec is that it assumes some debian-cd violence and other things. Which I'm happy to do, but I feel like it would be a waste of timein a cycle where we should be focussing on stabilising existing software, not introducing new stuff. [09:23] ogra_, sorry, don't remember the 5.1 receiver stuff? [09:24] infinity, well, for me thats not so much introducing new stuff but getting rid of the horrid hacks [09:24] ogra_: I really do want to implement that spec and get the new hw DB idea working right, but this just feels like the wrong time. I dunno. We'll argue about it in Orlando. ;) [09:24] diwic, yeah, its started with me asking you about spectrum analyzer software [09:24] right [09:24] he chimed in and recommended me to rather get a denon ... [09:25] after 3 weeks of bitter ear pain with the new yamaha i returned it on monday ... now i have a denon, no more earpain, waaaay better sound :) [09:25] * soren pats his Denon receiver in his desk [09:26] and i got it reaaaaly cheap because they felt pity for giving me something that produces ear pain :) [09:26] (like a 500€ discount *g*) [09:26] Wow. [09:27] soren, for the SACD player i bought i got a 1000€ discout because the box was missing ....500 isnt that much ;) [09:28] If you can get a €1000 it must have been rather pricey to begin with. [09:28] ogra_: is there anything major different between the AC100 image and the omap builds? [09:28] I think mine cost €1000 total. [09:28] 11 years ago. [09:29] lilstevie, look at ac100-tarball-installer source, that has all the specialities ... beyond that indeed it has its own kernel and bootloader setup [09:29] ok :) [09:30] soren, yeah, my old system costed me 600, including cup sized speakers etc ... i thought its time for an upgrade and invested 5000 [09:30] ogra_: was mainly wondering for basing my transformer stuff from one of them [09:30] lilstevie, feel free, but you might need some adjustments [09:31] well I do have a different bootloader setup [09:31] right, and a different kernel [09:31] yeah [09:54] ogra_, infinity: New f-k is in experimental and in git [09:54] there are more changes to be done, but I guess it's already better than what we have [09:54] lool, do you think its suitable for an LTS ? [09:54] yeah, thats what i think too [09:54] it doesn't support SD card right now [09:55] and i dont want to sit on what we have for 5 years [09:55] argh, seriously ? [09:55] well, it doesn't have any OMAP mechanism; you could point it at /boot though [09:55] I don't think much OMAP support made it to Debian [09:56] does it have omap4 ? [09:56] shouldnt be to hard to derive from there [09:56] that included lack of OMAP4 [09:56] bah, k [10:29] morning all [10:31] is com0 at 0x49020000 on the panda? [10:38] aloha, does ubuntu build from a single source or do you have a separate one for arm vs x86? [10:38] wondering if i look for a package in packages.ubuntu.com does that cover arm? [10:46] most of the time, yes [10:46] all packages use the same source, packages.u.c wont tell you if the binary exists though [10:47] http://qa.ubuntuwire.org/ftbfs/ has a list of all failed builds [10:48] ogra_: great, thanks [10:49] you can also look on launchpad.net/ubuntu/ [11:38] What's the rationale behind that /var/lib/preinstalled-pool thing in Oneiric? [11:41] What's worse is that the very first package I installed from there has a checksum mismatch :( [11:44] that shouldnt happen, infinity ^^^ [11:44] The python-setuptools package I have in there is all NULLs. [11:44] its what we ship as pool on the x86 server isos and should support installs without network [11:44] * soren checks the image [11:45] right, compare your md5 [11:46] Image checksum matches. [11:46] hmpf [11:46] Yeah, but does it match once you've written it to SD? [11:47] That's what I'm about to find out. [11:47] WEll... Sort of. [11:47] I can write an image out in a sec and have a look. [11:47] Where "in a sec" is "sometime this afternoon". [11:47] I'll mount the image on my laptop and see if the problem exists there, too. Otherwise, it probably got screwed up when I wrote it to the SD. [11:49] Nope, it's fine if I mount it on my laptop. [11:49] Weird. [11:49] No idea where it got scrwed up, then. [11:49] hmm, porobably a kernel issue then... mmc driver or filesystem driver issue [11:50] Most of the files in there seem fine. [11:51] on your laptop... [11:51] Just 9 of them have this problem. [11:51] No no, on the SD card. [11:51] if inserted in your laptop or in the panda ? [11:51] Panda [11:51] ah [11:51] hmm [11:52] bad SD ? [11:52] i.e. some borked blocks that shouldnt have been written to ? [11:52] No idea. It's brandh new. Just unwrapped it a couple of hours ago. [11:53] dmesg is silent. [11:53] (on this subject, I mean) [11:53] Plenty of other stuff in dmesg. [11:55] hmm [12:03] I could rant about SD/MMC quality again, but I seem to do that often enough. [12:04] While I think it's cool that we provide an SD grow-root installation method (and, indeeed, that's the simplest way for people to test their hardware and get started), I still think the goal should be to encourage people to get their system on reliable external storage ASAP. [12:05] And just use the SD for uBoot. [12:06] or support boards with nand booting only :P [12:06] we just need to convince vendors to put more money in :) [12:07] ogra_: I don't mind treating the SD slot as a hardwires flash/firmware area. At the end of the day, the behaviour is the same. [12:07] ogra_: And that's what we do when we netboot, for instance. [12:07] It's also how my i.MX53 and Panda both run when they're at home. [12:07] s/hardwires/hardwired/ [12:08] infinity, right, thats also what we did on babbage ... though there we had the prob that we had to install to the livefs media while running from it [12:21] wow... i got opengl-es to work on my pandaboard using oneiric and using the default package sources.. i simply installed every omap4 package and then it turned ON [12:22] i was expecting to get the packages from the ti ppa.. but they where already in main [12:22] *raise brow* [12:22] infinity: want a screenshot? [12:22] There's no way that's hardware accelerated if it involves nothing from TI. [12:26] infinity: http://openjdk.gudinna.com/lwjgl-es/pandaboard-LWJGL.png [12:26] running at 130fps [12:28] xranby: 130fps sounds like software rendering to me. [12:29] infinity: libEGL comes from the SGX omap 4 package [12:29] infinity: this are usning java -> opengl-es bindings [12:30] infinity, es2gears in SW rendering on the ac100 gets me 20-30 frames [12:31] i think its about 180 if accelerated [12:34] xranby: I can't find this package you're referring to. [12:34] infinity: let me try generate a list of installed packages [12:34] xranby: dpkg -S /path/to/file [12:34] are the some way to list the packages that got installed today? [12:34] Would that be the "benchmark" that has a --i-acknowledge-this-is-not-a-benchmark option? [12:39] infinity: http://paste.ubuntu.com/707964/ perhaps i got them from the ppa after all [12:40] twb, i think that was dropped again at some piunt :) [12:40] *point [12:40] xranby: "apt-cache policy packagename" will tell you where it comes from. [12:40] xranby: But yes, those aren't in the archive. [12:41] well, we definitely dont ahve ubuntu-omap4-extra in any official archive [12:41] and you have the sw-center added ppa .list [12:42] infinity: ok i can now confirm that they did come from the ppa [12:42] thanks ti [12:42] :) [12:42] send flowers to ndec and his team :) [12:42] ndec: cheers! [12:42] (or probably better bottles of old wine) [12:43] ogra_: well that's bloody stupid [12:43] ndec: i have lwjgl java bindings working on the pandabord using your latest oneiric drivers.. [12:43] nice [12:52] yes, gfx libs have been in PPA for a while now. video decoders are coming soon... === zyga is now known as zyga-afk [13:02] ndec: ok meanwhile i have filed a bug against the LWJGL upstream to add support for all your drivers extensions http://lwjgl.org/forum/index.php/topic,4237.0.html [13:04] ndec: when i install teh libEGL and friens all .so ends with .so.1 are this intentional? [13:05] the opengl-es userspace applications are looking for the libEGL.so symlinks and fails to find the library [13:06] * ndec thought we had fixed that. [13:13] xranby: yes, this is true the .so is only in the -dev package (e.g. libegl1-sgx-omap4-dev) [13:14] to me it's more a bug in the applications, ... but we've seen that in the past, and since we cannot change all applications, we need to update our package. [13:14] for now, you just need to install the -dev [13:14] ok thank you for checking [13:14] There's a longstanding history of bainry GL apps looking for .so instead of the actual library. :/ [13:15] But we don't ship .so in any library package, for sanity reasons. [13:15] binary* [13:16] hmm i wonder why.. the brainy GL apps simply try to link againt EGL [13:16] 'to get into this state [13:17] -lEGL are passed tot he linker [13:17] and it makes the linker pick to use the .so [13:17] xranby: Err, wait. [13:18] xranby: You need the -dev (and the .so) to link... [13:18] But it should then link to .so.1 [13:18] usually you can have EGL mesa installed to build it [13:19] so the app links against the mesa EGL -dev package [13:19] libegl1-mesa-dev - free implementation of the EGL API -- development files [13:20] I'm still not sure what your bug is here... [13:20] You need dev packages installed to compile. [13:20] But not to run. [13:21] If "ldd mybinary" shows that you've linked to an unversioned .so, that's certainly a bug (ie: if you need it at runtime). [13:23] we used to have wrong SONAME in our libs, but this is fixed. objdump -p /usr/lib/libEGL.so | grep SONAME will tell you libEGL.so.1 (and it used to be the .so). the soname is what the app will link against. [13:23] perhaps the mesa-dev package has wrong soname? [13:23] ndec: Almost certainly not. :P [13:24] (If it did, nothing on my system would work) [13:24] xranby: is your app dynamically linked against the .so, or do you have a dlopen to the .so . i think firefox does (did?) that [13:25] let me check [13:32] ldd at points to /usr/lib/libEGL.so i guess that makes it dynamically link [13:33] * xranby are rebooting his board... for some reason the usb mouse/keyboard refused to enumerate [13:39] morning dudes === zyga-afk is now known as zyga === doko_ is now known as doko [15:43] <_Thomas> Does anyone here work with the ubuntu release for the Linaro Origen-board? [15:43] <_Thomas> (I'm wondering if anyone knows the status of getting HW opengl on that board) [15:44] _Thomas, as i said in the other channel, ubuntu-arm doesnt support the origen board [15:46] <_Thomas> ok === victorp_ is now known as victorp [19:07] pandaboard: linaro image vs ti-omap ppa [19:07] which is better? === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan [22:59] so when I have the load address in uboot, is that looking for KERNEL_BASE_PHYS=0x80300000?