=== AndrewMC is now known as SpockVulcan === SpockVulcan is now known as AndrewMC [01:38] Hi guys, I'm rather new to linux, I've tried a few things on it, but haven't gotten very far. I currently have Ubuntu 11.04 running on VMware player. I was wondering if anyone might have suggestions for good starting tutorials... that I could find for free online? Videos would probably be best. [01:38] It'd be nice to at least have a good jist of the most common commands in the terminal. [01:43] Fuzzoom: welcome [01:43] there are lots of resources.. wikis video.. and helpful folks here [01:43] i say, get yourself a few simple tasks [01:43] next time you want to make a folder on your desktop, come here, or google 'make a directory in the commandline ubuntu' [01:44] and use the mkdir command (for example) [01:44] i made myself a server machine that is command line only [01:44] i use ssh to connect to it headless [01:44] Heh, nice :] [01:44] everything i do on there *must* be in the terminal [01:44] great learning experience [01:45] Hmm, but what sort of things would I put on the server... [01:46] whatever you want [01:46] again, i think that would be a good idea if you had something you needed to accomplish [01:46] Perhaps what would help most, is some kinda introductory course, that gives me an idea of how to do a variety of functions in linux. And then I can decide what one of those to look further into. [01:46] i run a mumble server for a skype kind of connection to folks, and an icecast server that i stream audio to.. a webserver that i put files up for folks on [01:47] Fuzzoom: right... but, what im suggesting is... you just take on some easy tasks [01:47] if you sit down and say 'im going to learn the command line', thats quite a task [01:47] Heh [01:48] but, you can learn to manipulate some files with the terminal easily [01:48] the introduction really depends on what you want, and what level you are on [01:48] Fuzzoom: Do you have any particular motivation for the wish to work in terminals? [01:48] Hmm, well I suppose I could make a server that a tutorial instructs me to, learning what things do along the way... [01:48] yeah, that too... you dont have to work in the command line ;) [01:49] Well not so much server side at this point... [01:49] more for getting things done quickly when it comes to downloading important files and simple tasks like that. [01:50] So this is only accidently related to Linux? [01:50] Or would you suggest starting with applications meant to make those processes easier? [01:51] Fuzzoom: i would try and narrow it down to a task you would like to accomplish [01:51] if you are on windows as well, maybe setting up a samba share, or running something simple in WINE [01:52] An (IMHO better) alternative to learning "the command line" for "getting things done quickly" is learning a decent scripting language instead. [01:52] Riviera: bash? [01:52] Ah that sounds like a good idea, Riviera :] [01:53] i would like to learn more python... i look at it every now and then [01:53] bash is everything but decent, especially as a scripting language ;) [01:53] i found http://www.upriss.org.uk/python/PythonCourse.html [01:53] Fuzzoom: yes, I'm pretty convinced it is. [01:53] what scripting language would be the best to start with, in your opinion? [01:53] err ya know, the basics :D [01:54] Hm. I can not really say, Python might not be the worst choice. [01:54] I did a little work in DOS... but that was ages ago. [01:54] ok :] [01:54] But also depends on what the task is. For what you are after Python might indeed be good. [01:54] i was thinking a lot of ubuntu/linux uses python, right? [01:54] i looked at a few, and it seemed less over my head too [01:55] oh... would the idea be that i'd be programming my own download managers and such? [01:55] hm, yes, python is relatively common [01:55] Fuzzoom: the idea, hm. [01:55] Fuzzoom: Let me annoy you with too many words: [01:55] okay, hehe [01:56] Fuzzoom: What you vaguely understand as "linux' command line" is probably more or less a shell and some standard, common tools [01:56] Thats probably true :P [01:56] Fuzzoom: like wget or curl to fetch data from the web, grep to select lines, awk and sed to manipulate them, [01:57] Fuzzoom: the shell (often bash) that glues these things together. [01:57] Fuzzoom: now, all of these tools can be used for scripting purposes similar as scripting languages, [01:58] Fuzzoom: but they are optimized for something else: For interactive use (in the command line), which has some implications. [01:58] Fuzzoom: one of them is that they're cryptic and complicated, people, when working interactively in terminals, don't want to type a lot. [01:58] Fuzzoom: often "the command line" looks like your cat slept on the keyboard. [01:59] heh [01:59] Fuzzoom: that means that things are complicated and take long to learn, [01:59] Fuzzoom: because, they also are very special in their domain, they are not generic solutions, but optimized to those that occur commonly, [01:59] Fuzzoom: working with files that potentially contain newline characters easily becomes very annoying in shells, [02:00] Fuzzoom: working with files that only contain of ascii characters is easy, [02:00] Fuzzoom: (in their names, i meant), [02:00] because of the limitations within those shells? [02:00] Fuzzoom: no, because they are optimized for common tasks. [02:00] Fuzzoom: working with lines of data is easy, working with more complex data becomes hard, [02:01] Ah [02:01] Fuzzoom: well, I realise, I talk too much. [02:01] Fuzzoom: in summary, the things that you can do with the shell are limited compared to a "normal" scripting language, [02:01] That makes sense. [02:01] Fuzzoom: which usually makes much more powerful issues far easier, [02:02] Fuzzoom: the only drawback is, you have to type a few more to solve the same problem, [02:02] Fuzzoom: but you waste less years learning all these things. [02:02] But you also get, exactly what you want, instead of what someone else was thinking, cause your programming it yourself, right? [02:02] Fuzzoom: in python, writing a script that parses a website's html and downloads some desired documents from that parsed data is easy, [02:03] Fuzzoom: doing the same with a shell, grep, sed, and awk is (in the general case) way more complicated, far less robust and often not reasonably possible. [02:03] I have done a nice long tutorial on html, which dabbled a little into java script. I've also done a little action script in Adobe Flash. But I'm aware neither of those are programming languages. [02:04] Fuzzoom: hm, but sure they are. [02:04] oh? [02:04] Fuzzoom: Why wouldn't they be? [02:04] ah, before I forget, I wanted to suggest something. [02:04] Sure :D [02:05] In case you find yourself thinking that everything I said is bullshit, and you decide for the foolish path of learning "the command line," [02:05] IMHO one of the things you should learn first should be to read / navigate / find documentation. [02:06] Finding useful information in manpages, finding the right manpages, and even googling for information are acquired and IMHO non-trivial skills. [02:06] I cannot provide useful beginner's tutorials, so I can only say that :) [02:06] Hmm, I am pretty skilled at googling things... the question is... knowing what to look for though. If you don't know nearly anything... you gotta start somewhere. [02:07] Ah ok :] [02:07] :) [02:07] I guess I've gotta remember... linux is far more about programming, rather than being a user friendly gui. [02:08] ActionScript and JavaScript are indeed programming languages, and prime examples of scripting languages. [02:08] Its more about making your own "user friendly" answers, correct? [02:08] I don't think so, no. [02:08] lol [02:09] That is, btw, the reason why I initially asked what your motivation behind all this is, [02:09] because I had that feeling that for you Linux somehow is related to the command line. [02:09] And with, hm, having to be an expert for using it. [02:09] and all that :) [02:09] Well, I've made some fairly educated guesses, but I apparently still know hardly anything, to be able to guess. xD [02:10] ah well, all these are anyway only my opinions, probably most the gurus would object 8) [02:10] Heh [02:10] Well I appreciate you taking time to assist me (or at least try to). [02:10] So, you don't find the GUI that you are using "easy?" [02:10] Well I do... [02:11] but... there are some things [02:11] You used Windows before? [02:11] like installing a flashplayer plugin for instance [02:11] yeah I'm mainly a windows kid [02:11] but simple tasks like that... can get very confusing when people on google have many different ideas of what to do... [02:12] many of which may work... but knowing what one to do... is... confusing [02:12] I wanted to ask which things you feel hard in your Linux installation that before were natural to you in Windows. [02:12] Yes, that's true. [02:13] But hm, doesn't Ubuntu do about everything for you already when installing the flashplayer plugin? [02:13] Well I also read reviews when I go to do things, typically... [02:13] and it seemed that the normal application finder/installer thing wasn't given the best reviews [02:14] ah, okay. hm. [02:14] :) [02:14] I don't bother much, maybe that's why I didn't notice :) [02:14] hehe [02:14] Do you have other examples? [02:14] Of things that feel complicated? [02:14] Hmm, maybe I should just write down and or ask questions as they pop up. [02:15] and maybe try out that python tutorial [02:15] Sure, but I now did not ask to provide solutions, it was mainly for understanding your idea of what Linux is and why it makes you feel that you should bother with internals. [02:16] Which is nothing bad per se, but should not be desired when one just wants to use a computer :) [02:16] Ok, well aside from intriguement in a different operating system from windows/mac... my main thought on using linux is... [02:17] Its free, and open source? and a lot more customizable... and some day it might be a lot more compatible with games I care most about. [02:17] So some day I might just switch completely over to it. [02:18] time will tell :) [02:18] but yeah... the many many updates that microsoft keeps asking you to download... [02:18] gets pretty annoying [02:18] hehe [02:18] and doesn't seem necessary [02:18] yes, that sucks indeed :) [02:18] if people are smart enough to avoid making a few stupid mistakes [02:19] Oh and also, I here the resource management of linux systems is like way better... (err uses less RAM) [02:20] mh. [02:20] Oh yeah, and I do like workspaces :D, I imagine they could be pretty useful [02:20] I've always kinda wanted to try out the linux cube :P [02:21] That feels so, yes, but I cannot really say. I use relatively minimal environments in linux and have sadly no clue about recent windows. [02:21] hehe [02:21] linux cube ... that's still around? 8) [02:21] lol I think so [02:21] now you can do it as a cylinder too [02:21] Anyhow, I like getting new perspectives, and access to new resources. [02:22] Though with time I learn that some things... like website coding... can be pretty tedious, and just wasn't for me. [02:22] Then don't much bother, just play around :) [02:23] Anyhow, as of right now... whenever application installations refer me to the terminal line to do stuff... I am like gah, idk what I'm doing >.< [02:25] I guess what'd be helpful for that is like a cheat sheet... like... cd = change direction /.. = search down two folders (made that one up kinda)... something like that [02:25] directory, not direction lol [02:25] there are millions of documents like that out there [02:25] doh xD [02:25] maybe one or two are good :) [02:26] hmm. [02:27] I really don't know of a good resource for that :/ [02:27] or well, maybe ask tomorrow again or so :) [02:27] hehe ok, I guess I'll google around a little [02:28] sounds like its hard for you guys to give simple suggestions for stuff like that. [02:28] since there are so many options out there. [02:28] (and since its probably so ancient and beaten into you, that you probably don't remember what ones you used) [02:29] I mainly used the manpages. [02:29] Stuff online usually sucks, it's usually wrong and such. [02:29] err, [02:29] I mean, when it's about the command line, shell scripting and so, [02:29] not things online in general :) [02:30] ah ok [02:30] well man pages seems pretty cool [02:31] Seems easy enough to navigate with the find feature. [02:31] (find feature in firefox) [02:31] ah, you read them in your browser? [02:32] Uh, atm yeah. [02:32] oh I see... just looked at the wiki [02:33] Hm? :) [02:34] yeah ok I have no idea where you'd normally find it xD [02:34] or what to enter anyways [02:37] You mean, for reading a manpage? [02:37] yeah [02:38] you'd, in your shell, in a terminal, use the command "man" [02:38] like for getting the manpage of the command "man" itself, you'd type "man man" [02:38] for help with the command "ls", type "man ls" [02:38] also try "man intro" [02:39] oh ok... :] [02:40] so if I wanted to say... find out what cd meant via manual pages [02:40] could i do that? [02:42] hmm. [02:42] only if you are lucky [02:42] "cd" is a command built in to your shell [02:42] there are not always manpages for these commands [02:43] on some systems there are, on some there are not :) [02:44] ah lol [02:45] ok the man intro does seem to be pretty helpful :D [02:45] good to know bout that :] [02:46] once you are into one of those, do you have to "terminal > reset" to clear out of it? [02:46] type q [02:46] it's a bit fancy, [02:47] oh coolio [02:47] manpages are files [02:47] uhm [02:47] sheesh, I am too drunk 8) [02:47] so this is kinda like the help app thing in windows [02:47] I mean, manpages are written in "mark-up" (remotely similar to html) [02:47] just kinda xD [02:47] when you type "man " [02:48] then, behind the scenes, this mark-up is rendered for your terminal, [02:48] like doing all these fancy things, hyphenation, justification, deciding what to print in bold and so, [02:49] (depending for example on the width of your terminal window) [02:49] eventually displayed in a "pager" [02:49] usually that pager is less [02:49] which is the program that you interact with, in that you scroll up and down in that manpage [02:49] and which is ended with pressing the q key :) [02:50] alright :P [02:50] because of this complex insanity, it's also possible to create quite nicely typeset manpages for print [02:50] and so 8) [02:50] :)) [02:51] well I am sure the man pages will be helpful to me :D [02:52] for the basics I want to / should know about the terminal [02:52] time go to make a lil document on my desktop to refer to to remember these crucial basic commands ^^ [02:54] making your own cheat sheet does not sound like the worst idea [02:55] ^^ [02:56] maybe see the documentation of the "coreutils" [02:56] that usually is in info format which to learn for you would now be asked too much, [02:56] but it should be online somewhere for easy browsing [02:57] Fuzzoom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Core_Utilities#Programs_included_in_coreutils [03:02] Hmm [03:04] Well I'll continue with my cheat sheet, and ask questions as I try to do common tasks. =] [03:05] (when I run into stuff idk) [03:05] way to go :) [03:05] Did you already write your first Python script? :) [03:05] I don't think so. xD [03:06] Oh... I forgot... I have seen a lil programming in filemaker... and on some graphic calculators for that matter [03:06] just a tiny bit though [03:06] sheesh, what are you waiting for? :P [03:07] If you feel the need to learn programming first, then learn programming first :) [03:09] It sounds like a good start... as long as I have "problems" it gives me to work through [03:10] *reading through the python.org tutorial now* [03:12] blah no, this one is too much reading without doing anything lol [03:12] :) [03:14] Hooray, one with a lot of exercises for beginners like me. :D (at least I think it is) [03:14] http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/ [03:17] Also see #python, they have some strong opinions about many python documents and surely many helpful hints. [03:17] ok I'll try to remember that [03:19] You know one cool example of trying a new app/technique that I did, was when I took an intro to flash class... I realized I could pretty easily make an entire calendar. :D [03:20] I suppose as you learn the skills, ideally the ideas will fly into your head, on how to use them. [03:24] Yes, that's often so. [03:24] Try to keep that, I imagine that can be lost during one's life. [03:26] Hehe [03:26] I don't think I will ever think learning new perspectives is a bad idea [03:26] though I may not be interested in learning certain perspectives. ;] [03:27] Err perspects/talents/skills... whatever you wanna call them [03:27] ah no, I don't mean the learning itself [03:27] I mean these ideas that fly when learning ;) [03:28] ah I'll try :P [03:28] Though I'm not naturally one of the more creative types, I don't think. [03:29] How would you know :P [03:29] :) [03:30] From experience trying out drawing, painting, photoshop, etc... [03:37] alrightie, I think its time to put chatzilla on my ubuntu firefox =P [03:37] gets a lil confusing doing it in windows and popping into ubuntu xD [03:38] but yeah doing a tutorial like this within ubuntu seems like just what I needed [03:38] I learn some programming, have some exercises to make sure I'm doing things right and understanding right... and if I only do it in ubuntu, I have more incentive to use ubuntu. =] [03:48] Alright, I'm back, inside of my virtual OS. ;D [03:49] welcome back ;) [03:49] lol wow, adding unity really makes things confusing xD [03:49] (merging windows 7 and ubuntu into same gui, cept for window edges) [03:51] one gets used to that :) [03:51] yeah suppose so [03:55] laters :) [04:00] you off for the night? [04:06] Thanks again for the help. It took a while to get some answers that worked great for me, but I did get them, and have a better idea of how to utilize this chat now. =] === Graham is now known as Guest96637 [05:58] So I have installed 11.10 and have the machine hooked up to a Panasonic HD TV however for the screen is always stretched off what appears to be all four sides. I have tried different resolutions on the nVidia drivers. I have the latest restricted ones but no joy. This computer previously worked fin with windows [05:59] The resolution is set to 1920x1080 [06:03] Whats a good way to make a python script a deb I can install? [06:06] Guest96637, does the tv has something like 'auto configure'? does it have a setting where you can say 'i want 16:9' or 'i want 4:3' or whatever? :) [06:06] maybe you'll need additional settings on the tv :) [06:07] Yes gone through all that and always stretched [06:07] I should not say stretched just oversized outside of the visible area [06:08] Well the tv video card combo worked fine under windows [06:08] yeah, when I connect my tv to my laptop, it works great... [06:09] what setting do you choose, Guest96637 ? disabled; seperate x-screen; twinview ? [06:09] Separate X-screen [06:10] in the nvidia settings, you can set the panning too, i guess [06:10] is that the settings from your 'standard' monitor or the tv-screen? :) [06:10] advanced settings ;) [06:11] One sec [06:11] Ok so should I reduce the size under panning? [06:11] i'd try it :) [06:12] That seems a bit better [06:12] okay, nice ;) [06:14] Herm actually it will not let me apply it [09:24] I have just installed the ubuntu 11.10 [09:24] but cannt install "sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras" [09:25] http://paste.ubuntu.com/707853/ [09:31] shahanthegeek: you updated the machine? [09:32] If not, try updating the machine and try [09:32] ok bai [09:45] shahanthegeek: Try sudo apt-get update first [09:48] geirha: He told that he updated twice :[ [09:49] geirha: I did it [09:49] again I have updated using the Main Server as its source . But same issue :( [09:50] http://paste.ubuntu.com/707868/ [09:51] At last the "ubuntu-restricted-extras" is downloading [09:51] that is installing [09:52] but the "sudo apt-get update" has not been updated completed :( [09:52] Hm. GPG errors [09:53] geirha: what does it mean? [09:53] It's unable to verify that the package lists are from a trusted source. [09:54] geirha: so, what should I do now? [09:54] Not sure. I don't know if the problem is with archive.ubuntu.com or with your install [09:55] hmm... Will it affect my ubuntu-restricted-extras installation as I am installing it right now ? [09:56] Could be some stale files in /var/lib/apt/lists [09:57] No, if it installs, it installs correctly. [09:58] You can try: sudo rm /var/lib/apt/lists/* /var/lib/apt/lists/partial/* [09:58] And then sudo apt-get update again [10:07] geirha: ok... I will try this after my ubuntu-restricted-extras installation [10:07] geirha: tnx for your help :) [10:08] The rm will give a warning about partial being a directory. That's expected, so just ignore it. [10:09] geirha: ok [12:44] Hi! I'm new at ubuntu community. Could I start some work with you? [12:44] I read something about packaging [13:23] sd_ubuntu: i would try and find a project you would like to help [13:26] i help with ubuntustudio for example... though not as much as i would like [13:27] the ubuntu weekly newsletter team is a great place to help out as a non-coder, and get an idea of what is going on in the community === wis3v0yag3r is now known as lanchoa === lanchoa is now known as wiseqnet [14:03] does anyone here has tried oneiric 0celot [15:11] Im new to ubuntu. I tried to checkout some files from CVS. But i get a: "cvs checkout: failed to obtain history lock in repository ....." error. can anyone help me with this error or tell me where to look or ask? [15:17] I am using pidgin right now. How do I tell it to stop creating a temporary window with the last reply to me? [15:32] i have an issue with my graphics not working correctly. Im new to linux and am confussed as to what to ask...any help to clear this up? [15:36] ask @ #ubuntu [15:37] w47331, you should tell us first what kind of gpu you have [15:37] we cannot help if you dont tell us what's the issue and what kind of hardware you have [15:38] just like with car, you tell your car's model and what are the symptons [15:38] right? [15:39] srry im looking for the command [15:39] lspci |less [15:39] for example [15:39] ty!!!!lol [15:39] http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/707773/ [15:41] my video fr it says no support for texture found.DTX texture compression not required. [15:44] its driving me nuts....love ubuntu but cant play any games....and i love rfactor!!! [15:45] oh well, i915 is not the fastest chipset for playing 3D games [15:45] but is there a fix for this? [15:48] w47331, trying to google a little [15:48] I just came back from work and I'm having a horrible headache [15:48] sorry to hear that....i just got over the flu...was down for 6 days [15:49] w47331, does your screen flicker or what? [15:52] no it isnt being recongnized ass a 3d card i think...says no support for texture compression. DTXX texture compression required [15:52] *as [15:52] DXT [15:53] does ubuntu have anyting like teamviewer or VNC? [15:54] !vnc [15:54] VNC is a protocol for remote desktop. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VNCOverSSH describes how to use it securely. It works best over fast connections, otherwise look at !FreeNX [15:54] !freenx [15:54] FreeNX is advanced remote desktop technology. For more information and install instructions, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeNX [15:54] sweet!! [15:54] think oyu would be willing to help remotly? [15:54] you* [15:56] I dont help with remote connections [15:56] and I'm still looking what's your problem [15:57] remote connection isnt my prob....my video isnt allowing me to play games [15:58] is that a windows game [15:58] or a native linux game? [15:59] yes i have wine... [15:59] win [15:59] that rfactor is a game you play under wine? [16:00] im hoping to.... [16:00] or am i going about it all wrong? [16:00] would you like to answer to my question [16:01] ...um...yes? [16:02] yeah, rfactor is a car game for windows [16:02] as i admited in my into ...im new to this all...and have only used windows in the past...so i hope i am answering your Q's as they are needed to be [16:02] right.. [16:02] problem must be some where in wine then [16:03] when i try to install the game it installs,, then it trys to config the video and says no support for texture compression. DTXX texture compression required [16:04] DTX* [16:04] DXT? [16:04] yea.. [16:05] srry [16:05] sounds like you need a better graphics card then ;) [16:06] buy xbox 360 and forza 4 for gaming ;) [16:06] im over microsoft.... [16:06] then seems no help for this issue ? [16:07] this appears to be a hardware related case, and I'm not a wine expert to be honest. I've played Fallout 1 and 2 under wine [16:07] and that's all :-) [16:07] right on thank you for your time!!! [16:08] np, have a nice weekend ;) [16:08] you can probably play tuxracer! ;) [16:08] you too !!!! [16:08] im getten new card...any suggetions...my laptop is inpsiron 1545 [16:08] laptops arent good for gamin [16:09] baby crying bbif [16:09] ah!!! [16:12] I think the issues is similar to http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11339095 [16:17] was fresh install from dvd [18:29] Hi, I recently updated to 11.10 on my netbook and now it doesn't see any microphones. Any help, please? [18:39] hey y'all [18:39] does anybody know how to fix the thing when ubuntu thinks the disk is full but is not [18:40] how it is full? [18:40] df -h [18:40]