Azelphurlol, I just ran htop on my server "Uptime: 107 days(!)"00:43
Azelphurthat little ! makes me laugh :P00:43
C-S-B compress=lzo as an option for my btrfs home partition is not working, what am I doing wrong?00:58
C-S-Bno worries sorted.01:08
RichTUKim a Lint user mainly, but used ubuntu for a long time, how are the ppl who updated finding 11.10? im thinking of triple booting04:33
=== daveeee is now known as sammmm
sammmmUbuntu 11.10 is out yayayayyayayay :D05:42
sammmmDownloading now :D05:42
bkerensaUbuntu Ocelot Release Google+ Hangout - [Live] http://j.mp/qzpYDB05:51
sammmmAnyone out tonight in Swansea?05:54
imexilMorning, so I'm still struggeling with synaptic not running under 11.10. Found out it's related to a segfault in /lib/i386-linux-gnu/libc-2.13.so only I can't find out which package is providing that file.06:38
imexilAnyone a tip on how to search for the package with the help of apt-get (there is a reason why I want to use synaptic you see  since I'm NOT blessed with apt-get foo ;) )06:40
AlanBelldpkg -S /lib/i386-linux-gnu/libc-2.13.so06:42
imexilthanks AlanBell06:42
imexilstrange that http://packages.ubuntu.com can't find it though06:42
imexilI mean the file not libc606:44
TheOpenSourcererMorning all. Any sore heads this morning?06:47
* AlanBell is fineish06:48
=== imexil1 is now known as imexil
dwatkinshi folks07:32
Pendulumhi dwatkins07:34
DJonesMorning all07:34
danfishmorning - how'd the release partay go?07:36
* BigRedS is sure he spent more time in a tube tunnel than in the pub last night...07:46
=== AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 20th October 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | YES it is out!
PendulumAlanBell: I think http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1206051 is my problem07:53
diploMorning all07:55
AlanBellPendulum: ok, so you need to run fsck on the drive of the virtual machine07:56
AlanBelldid it say the drive was read only?07:57
AlanBellsudo touch /forcefsck  <- try that07:57
AlanBellit will either work, and do the fsck after a reboot, or tell you the drive is read only07:58
Pendulumit did the fsck after reboot, but has not fixed issue08:03
PendulumI'm going to try recovery mode on a live cd next08:04
MartijnVdSCoworker had the NVidia driver enabled (and Unity) in 11.04, then upgraded to 11.10 and during the upgrade Unity became unresponsive08:04
MartijnVdSThat's unfixable, because the NVidia driver breaks text-consoles as well :|08:04
Pendulumat least this isn't an upgrade bug08:05
Pendulumit's probably a "my laptop hates me" bug ;)08:05
Pendulum(have ubuntu in VM on MacOS, laptop neglected to tell me it was running out of power and just shut down, ever since I turned it back on, it  just gives me a black screen part way through booting Ubuntu. I'm guessing it's because the Ubuntu instance shut down "incorrectly")08:06
AlanBellPendulum: might be something in /var/log/xorg.0.log08:07
DJonesHas anybody looked at or bought one of these http://www.reghardware.com/2011/10/14/whsmith_signs_kobo_to_battle_amazon_kindle/ Just wondering how it compares with teh kindle, seems to have one major benefit in letting you use epub files08:12
=== dan1 is now known as sammmm
gordDJones, is that really a major benefit? at least, never found it a hindrance08:13
DJonesgord: Most of my ebooks are in epub format08:13
gordDJones, calibre :) it manages your ebooks and auto converts to whatever your device needs08:13
gordthe touch screen on that thing looks interesting, but you'd really have to have a play with it to know if you like it i think08:13
DJonesgord: I know, I use it to convert anything I get to epub to read on my phone up to now, but converting a 1000 or so books to a kindle format could be a bit time consuming if I bought one of them08:15
gordDJones, well, thats the fun part, not really. it knows what format the kindle require, so you just tell it to put the books on your kindle and does everything for you08:16
PendulumAlanBell: any idea what I might be looking for?08:16
DJonesgord: Right, didn't realise that08:17
gordyeah, calibre is a life saver :)08:17
AlanBellPendulum: something that looks errorish08:17
AlanBellpossibly near the end08:17
Pendulumno errors near the end08:21
Pendulumthe only error I'm finding that doesn't immediately have a line of "disregard error" after it is  "/dev/fb0: no such file or directory", but I'm not sure what the connection is since searching seems to mostly give me that error once people are actually running programs08:25
andycI thought gnome classic was going to be removed from ubuntu 11.10?08:27
AlanBellandyc: it isn't on the disk08:29
andycI take it back it's jus tin the list of window managers for some reason08:35
andycMaybe because I installed gnome-shell08:35
AlanBellyup, that would probably do it08:36
PendulumAlanBell: was that aimed at me?08:37
AlanBellPendulum: no, at andyc08:37
Pendulumokay, didn't think so, but was checking08:38
AlanBellPendulum: /dev/fb0 is the framebuffer, not sure why it would be missing, or what to do  :(08:38
AlanBellpopey: might know08:38
MartijnVdSmaybe it shut down in the middle of a kernel upgrade and the initrd is broken?08:38
PendulumMartijnVdS: wasn't upgrading anything. Only even had irssi and firefox open08:39
JamesTaitHappy morning after, everyone! It's Friday! :D08:39
MartijnVdSPendulum: weird!08:43
kazademorning all08:48
smittixGB mirrors still going slow?08:58
jamespagesmittix: thats what I see at the moment08:58
smittixjamespage: :/09:00
bigcalmGood morning peeps :)09:07
brobostigongood morning everyone.09:07
MartijnVdS\o brobostigon09:08
brobostigonMartijnVdS: o/09:08
=== frz is now known as Guest93782
=== Guest93782 is now known as fr-z
fr-zmorning. has anyone made the upgrade from ubuntustudio to 11.10?09:11
bigcalmYes, mostly works well so far09:18
bigcalm(on my laptop)09:18
bigcalmThough the Archive Manager wants to open everything09:18
bigcalmHaving to set up the default apps for different file types is irritating09:18
bigcalmAlso, dropbox needs to be updated from the CLI as root, otherwise the GUI will just sit there and do nothing.09:19
fr-zbigcalm but wasnt the gnome 2 removed? if so, like it was expected, what do they use now?09:21
* oimon eating a biscuit made by my 20 month old toddler. not bad. he made me a nice beef casserol the other day too09:25
bigcalmfr-z: yes, gnome 2 is no more. The default is now Unity09:29
bigcalmTakes some getting used to. I'm giving this new version a month09:29
fr-zbut thats ubuntu not studio09:32
fr-z"Ubuntu Studio does not currently use Unity as it is transitioning to XFCE. "09:32
bigcalmThe thing that put me off the most about Unity is that everything is full screen by default. Un-maximising is the way forward09:32
bigcalmI'm sorry, I miss-read your initial line09:32
ali1234everything is not fullscreen by default on desktop09:33
awilkinsBlurrgh, who set the default fixed-width font in Oneiric to "large and ugly"09:36
gordbigcalm, ali1234 everything is fullscreen by default, *if* unity thinks you are on a netbook09:37
gordwhich is generally a machine that has a vertical resolution < 700 or so09:37
awilkinsAnd who stole the font config panel‽09:37
ali1234install gnome-tweak-tool09:37
MartijnVdSbut that installs all of Gnome 309:37
gordlooks like they are bringing it back for the next gnome version though, hopefully09:38
* awilkins bangs ctrl-c09:38
ali1234MartijnVdS: open a packaging bug then09:38
gordits not a packaging bug, tweak-tool relies on shell, it brings in shell which brings in a bunch more stuff09:38
ali1234why does it rely on shell?09:38
AlanBellgood use of the interrobang awilkins :)09:38
ali1234it doesn't rely on it to run09:38
gordfor the shell extensions part iirc09:39
awilkinsAlanBell, Why thank you, I saw it on QI and decided it needed a resurgence09:39
ali1234the shell extensions part is empty...09:39
gordyeah you'd have to install some09:39
gordi don't know how09:39
ali1234i don't even use gnome shell09:40
awilkinsWhat are GNOME smoking... we get an "online accounts" tool that ... doesn't integrate chat, mail, or anything else when you configure it. And they take away the font config panel.09:41
MartijnVdSawilkins: For the greater good!09:41
awilkinsThe greater good of people who enjoy being driven cross-eyed by their terminal, maybe...09:42
awilkinsWhat is that font anyway, Ubuntu?09:42
awilkinsThe u and n say yes09:43
gordwell technically you should be able to change the font in the terminal app too09:44
BigRedSawilkins: remember the heyday of gnome 2 when you couldn't configure it?09:44
BigRedSthat's what Gnome3 is aiming for09:44
awilkinsgord, You can change the font in the terminal app, which is nice. But it rather defeats the point of having system-wide font config. And for some reason, XChat thinks the system terminal font is something other than the one being used in the terminal by default ..09:46
AlanBellawilkins: it is the ubuntu mono font09:47
fr-zi hope ubuntu studio with xfce goes well because unity and gnome 3 are a complete usability fail09:48
awilkinsAlanBell, Whoever decided that it was a good idea for the terminal font needs shooting.09:48
* AlanBell likes it09:48
awilkinsShould be forced to type all his press releases in a terminal using vim.09:48
AlanBellbut I reduce the size to 1009:48
bigcalmUbuntu Mono is the only font that anybody needs09:48
awilkinsAnd Ubuntu Mono09:48
gordi'v been using ubuntu mono in my terminal for a long long time, its nice09:48
bigcalmSame here09:48
bigcalmAnd in anything I code with09:48
oimonwhat's the font package name?09:49
awilkinsI suspect this is why it's called "Preferences", dammit.09:50
* awilkins changes the terminal to Liberation Mono 10 like it should be by default09:50
smittixanyone have any remote desktop solutions for Ubuntu?09:50
awilkinssmittix, Clients or servers?09:50
smittixUsing the standard one a user has to login before it allows you09:50
oimonon-site users or far away?09:51
sdhi thought i would hate the new version of ubuntu09:51
sdhin fact i had already lined up mint09:51
sdhbut i love it09:51
smittixoimon: both09:51
sdhit looks amazing09:51
smittixfor a home server09:51
oimoni use freenx cos it's so fast and allows suspend sessions etc09:51
* awilkins concurs with freenx09:52
awilkinsOr neatx perhaps (not tried it)09:52
smittixCoolio, I will look them up09:52
awilkinsBut if Google has something to do with it, it has half a chance of being decent09:52
awilkinsOr just learn to do things on the terminal and use SSH09:53
oimonhow can i get ubuntu monospace on lucid?09:53
bigcalmDownload the zip from http://font.ubuntu.com/09:54
bigcalmExtract the files. Load each one and click 'install font' in the bottom right of the new window09:54
bigcalmOr something like that :)09:54
smittixawilkins: I use SSH already, It's just sometimes I need to download from a website with a login and can't seem to get wget to grab the files.09:56
awilkinssmittix, Ah, yes, I know that pain09:56
oimonbigcalm: thanks. easy when you know how09:56
awilkinssmittix, You could try a CLI mode browser like elinks09:57
smittixawilkins: Yeah I have tried Links already and the page just doesnt display09:57
DJonessmittix: Connecting from Ubuntu or Windows? For the rare occasions when I need to connect from windows, I just use TightVNC viewer which askes for login details09:57
awilkinssmittix, But yes, I've resorted to installing a desktop and an NX server to download files on servers before now09:57
awilkinsMay a thousand fleas infest the underpants of people who implement file download servers that don't work without session cookies (I spit on you, CollabNet)09:58
bigcalmsmittix: filezilla for windows and linux.09:59
davmor2morning all how was the party's?10:00
bigcalmThe party's what?10:00
awilkinsThe party's release?10:00
smittixtrying to access a routers gui within ssh is a pain aswell10:01
* bigcalm notes a lack of popey. I wonder if he's nursing a hangover10:01
smittixwell web interface10:01
davmor2bigcalm: there were 2 release party's one in London and one in leeds10:01
bigcalmSo, parties10:01
* bigcalm feels evil today10:01
shaunoif session cookies for downloads earn a thousand fleas, what does a java-based downloader earn you?10:02
smittixdeath by fire10:02
davmor2bigcalm: yeah whatever10:02
oimoni get "install failed" when i try to install the font :(10:03
DJonesoimon: http://askubuntu.com/questions/5097/how-do-i-use-the-new-ubuntu-font-family-in-older-releases10:05
DJonesMaybe that has it10:05
TheOpenSourcererbigcalm: I think you may be right: http://www.project-distribution.co.uk10:05
TheOpenSourcererAhh  - wrong url.10:05
TheOpenSourcererTry this one: https://twitter.com/#!/popey/status/12477835508095795210:06
TheOpenSourcererooops ;-)10:06
bigcalmAh, I have been avoiding twitter during work hours. Has made me a little more productive ;)10:06
czajkowskiTheOpenSourcerer: you were missed last night10:18
BigRedSczajkowski: well aim better, then10:21
czajkowskiBigRedS: well I didnt miss you :p10:21
* czajkowski hugs popey 10:22
AlanBello/ popey10:23
* popey has a hurty head10:23
smittixself inflicted no sympathy10:24
* popey dials down the brightness on the world10:24
popeyugh, boss just asked if i wanted to go to the pub10:24
Pendulumpopey: good time at the party last night, then?10:24
popeyi have been here 8 minutes10:25
awilkinsHair of the dog?10:25
bigcalmSounds like a smashing idea to me :)10:26
DJonespopey: You've already been in the pub for 8 minutes?10:26
davmor2popey: happy party?10:28
* davmor2 prods czajkowski 10:29
davmor2popey: how's the head?  You actually went drinking with Jono do you have a death wish?10:30
popeyit was fun10:30
gordhrm, really need to get an arduino then hook it up to a laser that knows when its beam has been broken, that then uses servos to move the position of the laser quickly. would keep the cat entertained for hours10:31
ali1234= blinded cat10:31
TheOpenSourcererczajkowski: I was at (hopefully) my son's next school's open evening.10:34
davmor2AlanBell: hows your head not as bad as popey's I hope?10:34
AlanBellI am OK10:34
czajkowskiAlanBell: you made the train then10:35
czajkowskiAlanBell: I came home to new headphones and an android tablet :D10:35
czajkowskiguess how happy I was after the day I had :D10:35
AlanBellyes, got the bus with christel10:35
czajkowskiI went home and played angry birds10:36
* christel hugs czajkowski 10:36
czajkowskiand angry frogs and snakes10:36
czajkowskijon had the tablet all set up for me :D10:36
czajkowskiit's so fast and nice10:36
czajkowskiLOVE IT10:36
bigcalmThose are some funky headphones10:36
czajkowskiI <3 orange10:36
bigcalmDo you have a VAX vacuum cleaner?10:37
czajkowskiBigRedS: no we have a roomba10:37
czajkowskithe tablet is a advent vega10:37
BigRedSczajkowski: that was for bigcalm :)10:38
* bigcalm tuts10:39
BigRedSwait, czajkowski, that's windows?10:40
czajkowskiBigRedS: at wor10:40
BigRedStsk tsk10:40
BigRedSactually, no, I'll just sympathise10:40
* popey hugs BigRedS 10:42
popeynow he has put 2 and 2 together and knows who BigRedS is10:43
* bigcalm still doesn't10:43
BigRedSI was sure I'd explained before10:45
popey← memory retention fail10:46
BigRedSthough, presumably, it was rather late and in a pub10:46
DJonesI thought BigRedS was a pseudonym for Santa Claus :)10:46
popeyBigRedS has nice hair10:46
popeyi aspire to have hair like him10:46
popeyhe also has a good laugh10:46
BigRedSah yeah. I've been told off for it in campsites before :/10:46
* daubers just aspires to keep his hair :(10:47
BigRedS"stop laughing, you're waking people up"10:47
daubersA battle I'm seemingly loosing10:47
* DJones hands daubers a bic10:47
bigcalmDJones: to colour in the bald bits?10:48
czajkowskithere is no fear of BigRedS losing his hair10:48
DJonesbigcalm: Not the pen10:48
czajkowskithere is enough of his hair is to share with all of ye and still have a full head10:49
BigRedSI should sell it10:49
DJonesSounds like your describing RMS, lots of hair etc10:50
DJonesOr Anita Dobson :)10:51
popeyi like the idea of Anita dobson running the FSF10:53
czajkowskiDJones: BigRedS is clean and doesnt pick at his hair and eat it10:53
czajkowskiso nothing like RMS10:53
DJonespopey: With her boyfriend singing in the background "I want to break free" :)10:53
bigcalmDJones: davmor2 is the one who breaks free10:57
davmor2bigcalm: Never they'd have to catch me first before I'd need to break free MUhahahahaahahahahah10:58
* TheOpenSourcerer has been told off for snoring in campsites before ;-) ^^re: BigRedS ^^10:59
TheOpenSourcererI kept about a 500yd radius of my tent awake :-D11:00
TheOpenSourcererWifey was fine11:00
popeyi am on windows atm, can someone on ubuntu help me pls?11:01
brobostigonmy dad has been told of similerely, before.11:01
bigcalmIs anybody in here using Ubuntu? ;)11:01
TheOpenSourcererpopey: Turn it off and insert an ubutu cd11:02
TheOpenSourcererthen trun it back on11:02
DJonespopey: What do you need?11:02
bigcalmYour clothes and your motorcycle11:02
TheOpenSourcererDamn I need a wee. BBL11:02
popeyopen gconf editor and look for the key relating to vnc11:02
popeywhen you enable/disable vnc it flips a switch in gconf key somewhere11:03
popeyi cant remember which key11:03
brobostigonTheOpenSourcerer: my dad now has a thing, to help him breathe properly, while asleep. and he no longer has such snoring problems.11:03
BigRedSpopey: http://www.ubuntu.com/tour/11:03
popeyBigRedS: funny man11:03
DJonesI'm on windows but I can ssh/vnc into a Lucid machine11:03
popeyneed someone with a gui really11:04
BigRedSAh, I've got that vm I made for gpg11:05
BigRedShang on, I'll boot it11:05
davmor2popey: on oneiric? there no gconf-editor ;)11:05
gorddconf-editor - fun times11:06
davmor2popey: The program 'gconf-editor' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:11:06
davmor2sudo apt-get install gconf-editor11:06
popeywhy are you telling me this?11:07
BigRedSpopey: I've got it. What am I looking for? all I can see with anything to do with vnc is a vinagre directory/folder/thing11:07
BigRedSis there a way to search it? There really should be but it's not obvious11:09
popeymenu item ☺11:09
BigRedSi appear to have no menus11:10
AlanBellis it the always-enable-listening key perhaps?11:10
AlanBellin org.gnome.Vinagre (I am using Oneiric and dconf-editor)11:10
BigRedSoh. ctrl-f11:11
DJonesHmmh, server died, ah well, that'll keep me busy tonight11:11
popeyopen the dash, search for remote11:11
popeyflip the 'allow remote access' tickbox11:11
popeydoes the thing in dconf-editor change?11:11
bigcalmpopey: found it11:12
bigcalmIt's /desktop/gnome/remote_access/vnc_password11:13
popeythats it11:13
bigcalmKey is 'enabled'11:13
* popey points corenominal at the last 3 lines11:13
BigRedS/desktop/remote/gnome/access has a 'enabled' which changes11:13
* bigcalm makes the connection and smiles11:14
bigcalmRight, think I should get some lunch11:14
corenominalpopey, got it, thanks :)11:17
gordhrm, the infernal decision. un-7z a large file on a network storage via the slow 100mbit ethernet cable but with the i7 machine. or ssh into the file server and un7zip slowly on the dual core atom but without the network overhead11:18
ali12347z isn't that CPU intensive11:24
gordi'm racing them11:31
gordmostly IO limited on both11:32
BigRedShaha, gord picks the slowest of three options :)11:38
gordmy IO is faster than my network speed, didn't really impact it :)11:39
gordnow reading the directory full of spectrum games, that is slow11:42
BigRedSthis firefox release schedule combined with their amusing bugs is hilarious11:43
BigRedSIve just closed four firefox instances, each running a different version so I can still use the right extensions and use the right websites...11:43
diploIt's annoying me as well BigRedS11:45
diplofor example, with newer releases of FF11:46
diploNeed to stop breaking add ons with every upgrade11:46
BigRedSyeah, and SSL cert handling just seems to get worse and worse.11:52
BigRedSI'm not a web developer, I shouldn't need to run multiple versions of a browser...11:52
shaunoff's versioning for addons really doesn't seem to be holding up well against this major-version-per-week deal11:53
BigRedSNo, I think they need to bring in some automated testing11:56
BigRedSno add-on dev is going to test against every major version, and so they're not going to want to claim compatibility with them all11:57
BigRedSIt'd be cool if the add-on devs just all came to an agreement to designate LTSs that they'd support :)11:57
ali1234add-on devs should just set compatibility to * and then blame ff devs when it breaks11:58
BigRedSyeah, that's what I'd do11:58
BigRedSit's a moving target, nobody can be expected to program for it. The onus is on Mozilla to stop moving it, rather thanthe devs to follow11:58
gordiirc mozilla are working on a stable API11:59
BigRedSand the point of the rapid major releases is to have little difference between them. 95% of add-ons for version 8 should work in version 9 with no modification11:59
ali1234even better, someone should fork firefox and make a simplified light version11:59
gorda simplified light version that three people use ;)11:59
ali1234and then have a 6 monthly release cycle for it11:59
BigRedSI'd use it, but then bog it down with silly add-ons...11:59
gordseriously, mozilla know about the problem, they are taking steps to fix it but its just not something you fix overnight12:00
ali1234why not? they broke it overnight12:00
gordthis is not a new problem12:00
gordits just one that is exacerbated by the new release schedule12:00
DJonesHmmh, dead server, do I just put the hdd in a replacement machine to see if its hardware releated, or just build a new server & configure it12:01
smittixtalking of servers i need to get these drives to automount12:02
DJonesI think I'll just swap the drive into a replacement machine & see if it still crashes12:05
DJonesThat'll give me time to do a clean install of its replacement anyway12:06
smittixI should have just installed server edition instead of desktop12:06
DJonesThis one occasionally gets used for web browsing etc, so it needs a desktop now and again12:08
DJonesOtherwise I'd put server on it12:08
* bigcalm returns and flops12:09
smittixOct 13 21:42:19 macbuntu sshd[3070]: Invalid user iain12:11
smittixhad to think who that was then heh12:11
bigcalmHave you changed your sshd port yet?12:12
smittixno i will do it when i get home. So i can forward the ports on the router12:12
* bigcalm nods12:12
smittixInstalled fail2ban though12:12
bigcalmYou can have sshd listen on multiple ports. Let internal machines connect on 22, external connections on something else12:13
mgdmhaving it on 443 is occasionally handy :-)12:13
bigcalmIf a little confusing at 1st12:14
smittixI want to setup my domain smittix.co.uk with it too12:14
smittixactually sack that idea12:14
smittixdecided to keep the mac though. found a space for it.12:14
Joeb454mgdm: I have to have my machine at home on 443 so I can access it from work ;)12:14
bigcalmI do like that joker.com allow you to set up dyn subdomains. Means I can use cuth.eu (nice and short) at no extra cost12:15
DaraelHaving upgraded to Oneiric, my wifi card appears no longer to exist... even if I use an older kernel.  Any ideas what on earth might be going on?12:19
gordi used to use things like dyndns, but could never find anything that worked well with it, routers would occasionally forget everything or dyndns would start threatening to lose the subdomain because i hadn't logged in for a while. so now i just have a static IP and the home subdomain of my domain point at it -_-12:19
smittix123 reg want me to pay 10 quid for a subdomain12:20
bigcalmjoker.com \o/12:21
mgdmthat's whyI run my own DNS12:21
gordgandi just let you go crazy, log in, write a new subdomain, gets propagated in an hour or two12:21
mgdmI can have as many subdomains as I like12:21
Daraelsmittix: If thou canst use DNS of thy choosing with the domain, move thy DNS to someone who'll let thee manage it thyself - do it thyself, or I understand that hurricane electric do a free DNS service.12:22
smittixmgdm: I have thought about doing that. But it'd be the first time i have done so on linux12:22
ubuntuuk-planet[Jono Bacon] Onwards and Upwards - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/14/onwards-and-upwards/12:22
oimondarael , which wifi card do you have?12:23
Daraeloimon: From memory, a Realtek RTL8191SE.  It doesn't even show in lspci any more, though, so I can't check.12:23
bigcalmLive cd of 11.04?12:24
DaraelI could dig that out of wherever I put it...12:25
oimonweird that it's not in lspci..have you enabled it via bios/function key/hardware switch?12:26
osiris_Bah wrong session heh12:27
Daraeloimon: Tried the function-key, there's no bios setting or hardware switch.12:29
mgdmThere's a lot of Bluetooth hardware that just drops off the uSB bus when you use the hardware switch to turn it off12:29
mgdmnever seen it with wifi kit, though12:29
* smittix prods MooDoo 12:33
* smittix hides12:33
awilkinsAnnoying things in Unity - alt-F2 is still there. But if you type faster than it resolves the command you typed, it picks the first thing showing in the history list. Grr.12:52
davmor2awilkins: it doesn't for me and I'm not the worlds fastest typer, it only selects when I hit enter12:54
awilkinsdavmor2, Hmm. I've had a couple of instances where I typed "eclipse" and it picked "bcompare" which was the previous thing I loaded12:55
awilkinsI mean "executed" rather than just "selected"12:55
davmor2awilkins: if you check the history as it comes up mine shows everything that is selected and whittles it down as I type then I hit enter when the right one is first in the queue12:56
davmor2or click on it in the list12:56
awilkinsJust tried again... entered "gvim" and quickly hit enter. It starts an eclipse instance, because that was what I ran previously. I'm sure I would have noticed this behaviour before, I've not suddenly become a fast typist.12:58
DaraelMany thanks to oimon and mgdm - I had a faint memory of having this before, and while the first few reboots didn't fix it, a shutdown-and-boot /did/ bring it back.12:59
oimonweird. laptop or desktop?12:59
oimonsounds like a soft disable setting was being remembered that wouldn't be enabled until power off13:00
Daraeloimon: laptop.  But the hardware key /normally/ doesn't remove it from lspci - it still shows up, but rfkill list shows it as hard blocked.13:01
oimonwow, liberation monospace font sucks for @ symbol13:13
pepitoGreetings my fellow Ubuntu-ers!13:17
gordit sucks at the  symbol too13:17
andycOut of curiosity has anything serious changed re: library linking in ubuntu 11.1013:18
andycI'm trying to compile somethign using a makefile which worked fine yesterday and now it has all sorts of undefined reference errors13:19
pepitobeing newly converted to Ubuntu, I am loving it, in many many many dimensions13:19
gordandyc, if you upgraded, then the ABI will have broken for some libraries you use, you'll need to make clean first13:19
gordpepito, great to hear! :)13:19
andycgord: It was a fresh install13:20
pepitoI just wish I knew what library sharing and ABI and makefiles were.  Then maybe I'd be useful here13:20
andycpkg-config seems to be finding the correct libs/locations but it still fails linking13:21
pepitoI have noticed a big difference in the fundamental principles that dictate the structural differences between windows and ubuntu13:24
pepitowhich are mostly awe inspiring and liberating, but sometimes confusing13:25
pepitothats a long way of saying, I have a question, can someone please help? :/13:25
oimon pepito, go ahead :)13:28
TheOpenSourcererCongrats czajkowski13:29
pepitoI am wondering about what used to be called "shortcuts" in windows....13:29
awilkinspepito, Sure but no need to ask, to ask  ---->  http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html  :-)13:29
awilkinspepito, Are we talking about desktop shortcuts, or file system links?13:29
awilkinspepito, Something to click on, or something to truly lead somewhere else?13:30
pepitoaha!  see, I just got smarter already!  thanks awilkins....13:30
pepitoI am talking about my files are buried about six clicks deep, on my external drive, and in windows I just13:30
pepitoclicked on a desktop shortcut, but now I have to click my way in every time I open a file13:30
TheOpenSourcererIn Linux/Posix systems shortcuts are termed links. Normally symbolic13:31
ali1234shortcuts are a lot closer to .desktop files13:31
diplohttp://www.speedtest.net/result/1534517991.png  <-- My work connection today :(13:32
ali1234NT has it's own symbolic link system, which is buried deep in the command line13:32
awilkinspepito, From the file explorer (nautilus) you can find "make link" in the right click menu13:32
czajkowskiTheOpenSourcerer: on what?13:32
TheOpenSourcererpepito: I don't know how to do it from the GUI but from the terminal you can create a link quite easily13:32
TheOpenSourcererczajkowski: Council13:33
awilkinspepito, This makes what's called a "soft link" - like Windows it's a file that points to another place, but it's a bit more integrated ; apps don't have to understand them to open them13:33
ali1234pepito: you drag the file while holding down ALT then select "link here"13:33
pepito"the terminal" is that bit that you are never ever supposed to mess with, right between turning on the PC and the OS powering up, right?13:33
ali1234pepito: don't mess about with symbolic links and the terminal13:34
TheOpenSourcererIt's easy and fast :-)13:34
TheOpenSourcerercd Desktop13:34
TheOpenSourcererls -s path/to.my/dir13:34
awilkinspepito, The terminal / shell is the thing that makes Linux much more powerful and "flow-ish" than Windows for many power users13:34
ali1234you have commited a typo13:34
oimonthat's a point, does nautilus have "favourite folders" anymore? on lucid , i drag common folders onto theleft pane - doesn't seem possible in 11.10?13:34
czajkowskiTheOpenSourcerer: oh wow13:34
pepitoseriously, I feel like an infant in the world of using my own PC all of a sudden13:35
awilkinsoimon, It still works, your left pane set to places, drag folder to "Bookmarks" section13:35
TheOpenSourcererali1234: Works for me :-)13:35
pepitowhich is a good thing, I know it opens up a world of freedom, but where Microsoft did all my thinking for me I now have to actualy know stuff13:35
ali1234TheOpenSourcerer: no it doesn't. read what you typed again, except slower this time13:35
czajkowskikinda lost for words now13:36
oimonawilkins: can u explain?13:36
TheOpenSourcererOK missed the trailing slash13:36
DJonesczajkowski, The words you're looking for are "Oh bugger, what have I let myself in for"13:37
awilkinsoimon : what's your sidebar set to, tree or places?13:37
ali1234TheOpenSourcerer: nope, try again13:37
TheOpenSourcererOK I actually did the following:13:37
oimonawilkins: places13:37
TheOpenSourcererls -s ~/link/to/my.dir/13:37
oimoncannot drag a folder onto the leftbar in oneiric though13:37
TheOpenSourcererln -s13:37
awilkinsoimon, I see : Devices, Bookmarks, Computer, Network. Dragging a folder to Bookmarks makes it a bookmark13:37
pepitoawilkins: I am looking for what you called the file explorer.  please excuse my absolute ignorance, I really am brand new to this... is that the small grey magnifying glass in my launcher?13:38
oimoni see Computer/Netowrk13:38
awilkinspepito, I usually start it up with the "Orange house folder" icon ( /home is where all user "home" folders are kept"13:38
awilkinspepito, The application itself is called nautilus, it's the standard GNOME graphical file explorer - the counterpart to explorer.exe in Windows13:39
ali1234pepito: what version of ubuntu are you using?13:39
pepitonatty narwhale13:40
Daraelawilkins: Except that it's not quite as tied into the guts of the system as explorer.exe - notably, if it crashes, the rest of the desktop keeps working.13:40
ali1234Darael: not all of it13:40
ali1234desktop icons are a nautilus instance, just like on windows13:40
awilkinsDarael, You  can restart explorer.exe if you start a task manager from alt-ctrl-del and Run it ... (but this isn't a Windows help channel :) )13:40
Daraelali1234: True.  But at least it doesn't kill the panels, as explorer.exe mucks up the taskbar.13:40
Daraelawilkins: Oh, I'm aware of that.13:41
awilkinsAnyway, back to nautilus13:41
oimonawilkins: you are on 11.10 unity?13:41
oimonnautilus 3.20?13:41
awilkinsoimon : maybe your bookmarks are empty and if you add one with ctrl-D the section will appear13:41
pepitoI believe that is correct, yes13:42
awilkinsoimon, Yes, Oneiric  / 11.10 / 3.2.013:42
pepitoI just installed it a week ago, after I got fed up with Microsoft13:42
pepitoit was the most recent version13:42
oimoni can also close/crash nautilus by right clicking on the sidebar and choosing open when on blank space13:42
ali1234lol, confirmed13:43
awilkinsoimon, Mine doesn't seem to have that behaviour13:43
pepitookay I just discovered I can toggle between different types of displays in the LH window of the file explorer, including the "tree"13:44
ali1234um. how?13:44
pepitowhich makes it a little quicker to scroll down and find my files13:44
oimonawilkins: weird, cannot add a bookmark in unity3d13:44
oimonmaybe a fresh install is required :-\13:45
ali1234oh, i got it13:45
pepitothere is a drop down menu right above it that says places...13:45
pepitoyeah that one13:45
ali1234well that's gone in oneiric13:45
ali1234you have to use the menu13:45
awilkinspepito, Yeah, you came to the party a week late and installed the previous release version... never mind, natty is pretty stable and still very good13:46
awilkinsI'm still running Maverick on my work machine (for the moment)13:46
pepitoawwwww bunk.  :)13:46
pepitooh well, I am still happier than a fly on a cowpie13:46
awilkinsI'll work out the kinks at home then install Oneiric on it13:46
davmor2oimon: I can if that helps and this is a fresh install13:47
awilkinsoimon, I do fresh installs... you could try removing your .gnome2 folder (or wherever Unity keeps its prefs)13:47
pepitohey this emblems feature for marking documents is pretty nifty13:48
awilkinsoimon, I move my old home folder and then move back any files I want to keep. (home on a different partition to root)13:48
oimonawilkins: trying with a fresh user13:48
oimonhmm either 11.10 is extremely buggy or i have a ropey install13:50
oimongonna try a fresh one!13:50
oimonpepito: http://ubuntu-manual.org/ has a user manual for the 10.10 version from last year, although many ubuntu "concepts" are the same13:50
awilkinsoimon, I've noticed a couple of desktop crashes so far but things have startup up again (I am on the post-release nvidia driver which may, I suppose, be less stable)13:50
pepitothanks for the tip13:51
awilkinsoimon, It's been stable for hours though, only crashed when attempting things like resolution changes to cover both widescreen monitors13:51
awilkinsWhich is now working fine13:52
=== frz is now known as Guest6129
TheOpenSourcererTonight I will be mainly eating raw Dorset #Naga chillies in a pub with a mate who thinks he's hard for a bet. ;-)14:00
awilkinsAre you an experienced capsaicin extremist or are you just mad?14:01
Guest6129does anyone use Xchat? I would like to know where i can add my auto identify command14:02
diploYep i use it14:02
awilkinsGuest6129, It's in the properties for the server you joined ; the default one is Ubuntu Server, not Freenode (despite appearances...)14:02
oimoni read about the madman on reddit who wanted to stick a very hot chilli up his botty14:02
diplopfft awilkins beat me to it14:03
oimonthis PC has Ubuntu 11.10 on it, would you like to Upgrade 11.10 to 11.10?14:04
Guest6129diplo where do i set the command?14:04
diploSo you have network list open and then edit/properties of the server you are on14:04
diplooption saying NickServ Password14:05
brobostigonwhat is the software pad.ubuntu-uk.org uses ?14:11
brobostigonthank you ali123414:12
oimonbeen having problems with my etherpad lite install :(14:13
oimonnot retrieving existing pads until etherpad+apache restart :-\14:13
=== sdh is now known as sdh__
MooDoohello all14:23
MooDooi hear congrats are in order czajkowski14:24
zleapwhere do i get the md5 sum file thing from so i can check 11.10 was downloaded properly14:27
lubotu3See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes for the md5sums of Ubuntu discs.14:27
popeywhich doesnt have 11.1014:27
awilkinsTHere's usually a MD5SUMS and SHA1SUMS file inthe same download folder14:28
zleapi was looking for a direct link to that page but was unable to find it14:28
zleapi thought there was something strange when the file size was 610mb14:32
zleapthat was from the main ubuntu download page thing14:32
zleappopey: thanks14:32
oimonguys, i just reinstalled 11.10 to check the bookmark thing FAIL again14:32
awilkinszleap ; you could "repair" it with bittorrent14:33
oimoncan anyone reproduce? open Home folder from launcher, go to menu and choose Add Bookmark14:33
oimonnothing happens14:33
zleapawilkins: not sure how to do that,14:33
awilkinszleap, start the torrent, stop it again, swap out the file for the partial download14:33
zleapi will download again14:33
GirlyGirlzleap: zsynch will be easy to repair an iso14:33
GirlyGirledit zsync14:34
AlanBelloimon: by design I think14:34
AlanBellit is a kind of standing bookmark14:34
zleapas i don't have any torrent software14:34
awilkinsoimon, Pick another folder and try to bookmark that14:34
zleapzsync isn't installed this is my 2nd pc with the cd burner and 10.10 installed14:34
awilkinszleap, What are you running? Windows? uTorrent will be sufficient and it's about 300KB as I recall14:35
zleapubuntu 10.1014:35
oimonawilkins: AHHH..you have to be inside the folder to bookmark it14:35
AlanBellzleap: should have transmission installed then14:35
awilkinszleap, Ubuntu has a torrent client in the default packages14:35
oimonand you cannot drag anything to bookmarks unti lyou have done that for the first time14:35
zleapi am downloading its only going to take a few mns anyway14:35
awilkinszleap, A nice fat pipe, the other solution to downloading files...14:36
oimonok , this is a real bug. open nautilus and right mouse on the grey area of the sidebar..choose open in new tab: closes nautilus14:39
oimonanyone reproduce?14:40
awilkinsI had a few tries, not so far14:40
oimonhappens on unity2d and 3d for me14:40
zleapbrasero now crashes when i try and copy a cd14:41
popeyoimon: did you do a clean install?14:42
AlanBelloimon: opens a new window for me14:43
gordopens a new tab for me?14:44
AlanBelloh, that time it did open a new tab, then tried again and it all crashed14:44
AlanBellfairly even mix of new tab and crash now14:45
oimonwithin 10 mins of install i got a unity crash too :(14:45
oimonplus a software center bug14:46
gordfyi, testing is great. but generally you want to do it before release14:46
oimonbeen too busy to check the beta for last few weeks14:46
oimonbeen running for 3 months14:46
oimonirl got in way14:46
ali1234does software centre still crash if you try to submit reviews?14:47
gordi still find it slightly magical that i can eject my cd tray without touching it14:47
ali1234welcome to 199814:48
MooDoonext you'll be saying your computer will be one day able to boot in under 10 seconds....14:49
gordmy ubuntu does :)14:49
gordnot the bios to ubuntu bit though14:49
ali1234i'm thinking of buying a blu ray burner14:49
MooDoogord: i was being sarky ;)14:49
ali1234do they... "work" in linux?14:50
MooDoonot even upgraded to the new ubuntu yet, might do it tonight14:50
gordwhat do you want to burn?14:51
MooDooburn the witch14:51
gordfiles i think should work, not video14:51
MooDoosorry python mode again14:51
DaraelMooDoo: Does she weigh the same as a duck?14:51
popeygord: havee you got an efika mx smartbook>14:52
diploI'd like a Bluray player as well ali123414:52
gordpopey, never even heard of that14:52
diploLet me know if you do get one how well it works14:52
popeyarm laptop14:52
diploI want to start ripping my Blurays14:52
gordah no, i have an ac10014:52
popey i.MX51514:53
davmor2ali1234: that was an old fault got faixed ages ago14:53
Hippychickhow is blu ray support in ubuntu, ive been trying to pursade oly to get a bluray drive for the server so we can play films on there and share the drive with the eeep in the kitchen14:53
ali1234davmor2: well either it broke again recently or your idea of "ages ago" is rather short14:53
davmor2I just want my audio to work right with skype/voip/mumble14:53
MooDooDarael: hehe ;)14:53
davmor2ali1234: If you were on oneiric it was a completely different bug some code was missing it got fix as soon as I tested it and it failed so 2-3 weeks ago14:55
swat_what does a bug mean if it is 'triaged'?14:57
ali1234swat_: it means that the bug has all the necessary information that you need to give, but nobody cares enough to fix it14:57
* BigRedS plays spot the cynic :)14:57
ali1234it will likely stay that way until about 2 years has passed, then it will be closed because that version is no longer supported14:58
swat_ali1234: sounds a bit negative :)14:58
ali1234not at all14:58
ali1234you are lucky to even get that far14:58
ali123490% of my bugs are still at confirmed14:58
BigRedSyeah, one downside of it being so easy to file bugs on launchpad is that the vast majority of bugs never get fixed15:00
oimonhow do you find openssh-server in software centre?15:01
BigRedSsearch for ssh?15:01
oimontry it15:01
oimonalso try openssh-server15:01
* diplo has never tried15:02
diploalways command line15:02
oimonwhy doesn't software centre show the right package?15:03
AlanBellsearch for ssh15:03
AlanBellfirst option is secure shell client and server (metapackage)15:03
oimonAlanBell: sort by name, relevance, ?15:04
gordgenerally if its a command line thing, you want to use apt15:04
gordsoftware centre is mostly for things that have .desktop files15:04
oimonAlanBell: not there.15:04
AlanBellah, maybe becuase I have it installed15:05
AlanBellsee the link at the bottom "show 196 technical items"15:05
oimonah LOL15:05
oimonAlanBell: hmm don't get that either15:06
oimoni have no explanation for what happened, except that software center hung for a few minutes and now shows ssh and the technical items bit15:11
oimonmust be a repo problem15:11
DaraelSince I upgraded to Oneiric, all buttons and dropdowns in the various config boxes are unreadable unless currently selected - white text on a very-light-grey background - in Ambiance, Radiance, /and/ Adwaita.  Any ideas how I can get those elements looking as they ought to?  I've tried gnome-tweak-tool, and changing the GTK+ theme to Greybird solves it but causes /other/ elements to look out-of-place.15:13
livingdaylightHey, ubuntu 11.10 is available15:14
livingdaylightjust got an ivnite to upgrade15:14
MooDoolivingdaylight: welcome to the party :) lol15:14
livingdaylightI think I'm a bit late to the party, no?15:14
livingdaylightI expected release towards end of the month as per usual15:15
MooDooah :)15:15
livingdaylightIs there a good screencaptur app like Jing for windows in Ubuntu/Linux?15:16
gordgenerally better to describe what you actually want rather than asking for a replacement for an app most of us prolly don't know about15:16
TheOpenSourcererJeez - The toolbar has gone from Nautilus... Have to use the menu (at the top of the screen!) to change the left column view...15:17
livingdaylighttrying shutter, but it doesn't seem to provide a link I can copy /paste and share the screenshot with15:17
oimonreported bug 874321 with video15:17
TheOpenSourcererAND half the dialogues are too bloody long to fit on my netbook screen. Just like Evolution all over again.15:17
lubotu3Launchpad bug 874321 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Nautilus closes after choosing open in new tab from sidebar" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87432115:17
livingdaylightgod: i'd like an app that does what Jing does or other similar screencapture apps15:18
livingdaylightclip2net is close but rough on the edges15:18
TheOpenSourcererAnd you can't change main panel display without using the menu either. Sorry this sucks quite a lot.15:20
ubuntuuk-planet[Laura Czajkowski] Elected to the Ubuntu Community Council - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/10/14/elected-to-the-ubuntu-community-council/15:22
brobostigonmr fox, has just resigned.15:29
oimonthere was a fox hunt going on after all15:30
oimonas if the papers "knew" a back-story  but weren't reporting it15:31
oimonbarely hidden between the lines of the articles15:31
TheOpenSourcererOooh - I thought he might have managed to hang on.15:32
oimonanyone else still getting text corruption? i think it's particular to my vga card http://i.imgur.com/pDEIP.png15:32
ali1234oimon: don't get that here15:32
ali1234i got stuff like that with natty but not any more15:32
oimoni can't find a list of bugs in launchpad i've said "me too" on15:33
ali1234oimon: there is one ut it is under development... 1 sec15:33
oimonaffecting bugs?15:33
oimonget an error page :(15:33
ali1234when/if that starts working i have a patched update-manager that tells you if any of the updates fix bugs that affect you :)15:34
oimoni think ive managed to completely break ubuntu today15:34
oimonali1234: smart15:34
ali1234at the moment it only tells you if bugs you submitted were fixed15:34
ali1234because that's all you can get with the API15:34
TheOpenSourcererwow - some big things coming out here: http://www.itworld.com/it-managementstrategy/213373/libreoffice-sees-new-platforms-more-users15:43
TheOpenSourcererThe French government will be shifting 500,000 Windows users from  OpenOffice.org to LibreOffice. This will increase the installed base of  LibreOffice Windows users by five percent in a single migration.15:43
TheOpenSourcererRégion Île-de-France (the region where Paris resides and itself a  premium sponsor of the conference) will be distributing 800,000 USB keys  loaded with LibreOffice and a cloud plugin to that region's students.  Parisian students and their families will be getting heavy exposure to  the LibreOffice application.15:43
TheOpenSourcererOn-line LibreOffice15:44
TheOpenSourcererAndroid and iOS ports15:44
DJonesTheOpenSourcerer, Did you read the article about openoffice that just appeared on El Reg15:46
DJonessorry, no it was on slashdot15:46
TheOpenSourcererInteresting DJones... It was going to take a *long* time to get it all ported into the Apache ways and the world is moving quite quickly.15:48
DJonesStupid Windows tools, Windows 7 USB iso burner refuses to accept that an ubuntu 11.10 iso is a valid iso format15:49
ali1234why should i care if OO.o dies?15:49
oimonusing ubuntu-bug to report a bug suggests i go to askubuntu?15:49
TheOpenSourcererThat's the great thing about Open Source. It hasn't. Libre Office is it's offspring and competitor.15:50
ali1234oimon: just click "i have been through tech support"15:50
oimonali1234: bit misleading i feel15:50
ali1234oimon: it only happens on unity bugs15:50
oimonali1234: ah thanks15:50
ali1234and perhaps a few other things15:50
ali1234is this the graphical corruption?15:51
ali1234cos if it is, you probably want to report it against the video driver anyway15:51
ali1234maybe it only happens on video card drivers actually, i forget15:51
oimonit only shows on unity windows. not sure if unity or intel15:51
ali1234it's intel15:51
ali1234video corruption is always down to the driver15:52
oimoncool ta15:52
ali1234intels drivers have gone pretty bad since i945 days15:52
gordi only get corruption on my intel box 1/7 days now15:53
gordmuch better than constantly all the time of 6 months ago15:53
DJonesTheOpenSourcerer, I would have thougt their biggest problem now will be that they're not competing against a £xxx version of MS Office, they're also competing against LibreOffice and MS Office, If people have seen that a lot of the development has moved to LibreOffice, that's another battle for them to fight against15:53
TheOpenSourcererIt's also that the traditional Office Desktop Suite is becoming rather "old hat".15:54
TheOpenSourcererI don't use OOo/Libre very much at all.15:54
oimonTheOpenSourcerer: what do you use? cloud stuffs?15:55
TheOpenSourcererEmail, Twitter and stuff like Google Docs.15:55
TheOpenSourcererOccasionally I need to use it but not that often.15:55
DJonesIs google docs free to use?15:56
TheOpenSourcererSpreadsheets probably more than word processor docs.15:56
TheOpenSourcererDJones: I haven't paid anything to use it15:56
TheOpenSourcererWe have a shed load of docs up there now.15:56
TheOpenSourcererIt's very handy when working on projects with customers15:57
DJonesRight, I might give it a look anyway next time I have to do any documents, maybe once a month I need to do something word processed15:57
mgdmI'd like google docs more if it would let me mark things as headers, rahter than just changing the fonts15:57
TheOpenSourcerermgdm: Yeah - it isn't perfect by any means.15:58
mgdmI want more semantics, rather than just making it bold15:58
popeyminecraft on my intel box is painful.15:58
mgdmPersonally I think Markdown's where it's at :)15:58
popeygraphical corruption which gets worse15:58
TheOpenSourcererWe use it to prepare materials then might import into OOo for final "presentation work"15:59
TheOpenSourcererOh man oh man. 18TB hard drives... http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/10/researchers-increase-hard-drive-density-sixfold-with-salt.ars?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arstechnica%2Findex+%28Ars+Technica+-+Featured+Content%29&utm_content=Google+UK16:00
TheOpenSourcerer3.3Tb per Sq In. :-D16:00
=== chambo is now known as andyc
dwatkinsTheOpenSourcerer: wow16:28
ali1234"learn to code in java" :|16:42
=== victorp_ is now known as victorp
andycIn unity when I alt+tab, should a window come up showing me which windows I'm scrolling through?16:43
ali1234sort of yeah16:43
andycI dont get one and I have to guess when to stop :/16:43
ali1234you should see something, put it that way16:43
andycThat's a negative16:43
andycCan I configure it in compizconfigsettingmanager?16:44
andycI haven't used unity before - I think I prefer it to gnome shell but it's a bit buggier16:44
andycAlso I don't know whether this is unities fault but user switching since updating to 11.10 has locked up my machine pretty much every time I've tried it16:46
Monsterwizardali1234 I'm learning to code in Java D:16:49
ali1234user switching has never worked properly16:49
popeyandyc: in a terminal issue a "unity --reset"16:50
ali1234not in ubuntu, not in windows...16:50
popeysee if it fixes your alt-tab16:50
ali1234maybe in OS X but i never tried it16:50
popeyuser switching in osx works well16:50
popeythe mac in our kitchen is pretty much always logged on as me, wife, and both kids16:50
andycpopey, That did it - thanks!16:53
ujjainIs there an English expression that means: putting the finger on the weak spot?16:56
popeyujjain: context?17:00
ujjainpopey: This has nothing to do with ungratefulness, but the team should not be affraid to point the finger at the weak spot?17:01
popeylike a whistleblower?17:02
ujjainright. It's a complaint.17:02
popeymy brain is too muddy to think of an appropriate phrase, sorry17:02
ujjainno problem :)17:02
popeyi suspect ali1234  or AlanBell can help :D17:02
ujjainhehe, it's alright :) I don't have to have perfect wording every time I guess.17:03
popeydo you work as a translator?17:03
popeyI am sure I must have asked that before17:03
ujjainYou have not asked it before. I do not, I like languages and want to improve my English, but do not know how.17:03
popeyLaney is also good.17:04
Laneyso i've heard17:04
=== Laney is now known as Guest30511
ujjainI have responded, I hope 'pointing the finger at the weak spot' makes sense hehe.17:05
popeyit does to me17:05
ujjainGreat. :)17:05
=== Guest30511 is now known as Laney
Laneysilly freenode17:07
=== chambo is now known as andyc
daubersAnyone fancy buying me a robot chassis?17:21
ubuntuuk-planet[Jonathan Riddell] KDE is 15, Kubuntu is 11.10 - http://blogs.kde.org/node/449017:22
andycdaubers, What sort of robot17:23
andycThis one doesn't look to hard to put together17:24
daubersandyc: I want to play with a robot to map out a room :) So just a little thing on wheels. I'm currently being very tempted by this http://www.sparkfun.com/products/1033617:25
andycStick an arduino on it or something?17:26
daubersYeah, pretty much17:26
daubersWas thinking of grabbing the new ARM based arduino when the boards are available17:26
andycI didn't know they were making an ARM version17:28
andycARM have just got absolutely huge over the last few years17:29
andycEverythign is ARM17:30
daubersArduino DUE I think is the arm one17:30
daubers32bit Cortex-M317:30
andycQuite a lot more powerful than my arduino :)17:31
daubersI want to do the mapping with vectors, so I think the extra clock speed will make life easier17:31
daubershttp://farm7.static.flickr.com/6164/6167088135_1270e2ff44_b.jpg <- The new arduino range17:32
andycYeah plus there isn't much RAM to play with on current arduinos17:32
daubersYeah, I've seen a lot of guides on how to attach more SRAM to the mega17:32
daubers(or was it DRAM… one of the two)17:32
ali1234daubers: that's not a robot, this is a robot: http://www.lynxmotion.com/images/hi-res/ch3r01.jpg17:38
daubersali1234: I'm trying to map a room, not invade the Earth17:39
MartijnVdSdaubers: that's what you tell other people, but we know better!17:39
ali1234just map it then? like, by hand?17:39
daubersali1234: It's a stepping stone to something else. I want the little bot to wander around and make a vector map of the room it's in17:40
MartijnVdSdaubers: surveying before taking over the world?17:42
MartijnVdSdaubers: smart strategy :)17:42
daubersMartijnVdS: Nah, just surveying on where to hide the bodies :)17:42
* MartijnVdS now has a smiley in his prompt17:43
ali1234daubers: wheeled/tracked robots are a bit bad at dead reckoning17:45
daubersali1234: because of the encoders in the wheels?17:45
ali1234no, because the wheels tend to slip a lot17:46
ali1234so you know how far the wheels have rotated perfectly17:46
ali1234but not how far the robot moved17:46
* daubers was going with the wheel encoders + magnetometer + ultrasound sensor philosophy17:47
ali1234also that sparkfun thing looks ok but... tamiya have a much nicer one17:47
ali1234and i think sparkfun sells it17:47
daubersali1234: I'd rather start with wheels, easier to control and I'm more interested in the mapping algorythm17:47
daubersstuff at the moment17:47
ali1234wheels is a bit of a dead end though17:48
daubersCould always do something optical under the body to detect movement and see if it's slipping or not17:48
ali1234pretty much nothing you can do with them translates into bipeds/hexapods17:48
daubersor, later down the line move to a hovercraft :)17:48
ali1234you can do what a optical mouse does17:48
ali1234that works quite well17:48
ali1234you need two sensors though, or a camera17:48
daubersisn't that some kind of laser interferometry?17:48
ali1234because mice don't understand rotation17:48
ali1234no, an optical mouse is just a camera17:49
ali1234someone hacked one to be a scanner17:49
ali1234then it just compares last two frames and calculates the movement17:49
ali1234a raspberry pi would be perfect for this17:49
ali1234just rip apart two mice and stick them under the robot17:50
ali1234plug them on usb of course17:50
daubersyeah, could do17:50
ali1234you can't do that with an arduino17:50
ali1234you have to write your own chip controller17:50
daubersAll I really need to do is just attach an optical mouse to it and ask the mouse to detect movement. Shouldn't really need to do the rest of the processing myself17:55
ali1234yeah if you go with a usb capable ontroller17:57
ali1234you need two mice though17:58
awilkinsAnyone know where the desktop background setting is stored?18:09
awilkinsI've tried committing .config and .gconf to version control and inspecting what changes when you change the background but I've not found it yet18:09
daubersit's in gconf-settings somewhere isn't it?18:09
awilkinsdaubers, Not if you believe the content of the files... lots of darkness, type, palette information18:11
daubersI thought you had to run some tool to get to that information?18:11
awilkinsdaubers, it's all stored in XML files, isn't it?18:11
awilkinsExcept I can't find the wallpaper settings18:12
daubers(I think)18:12
awilkinsit says "file:///usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final-ubuntu.png"18:13
awilkinsWhich is obviously a total lie18:13
daubersIs it?18:13
awilkinsIt's the Ocelot18:13
daubersI'd open that file and have a look…. the filename might be wrong18:13
awilkinsAnd it doesn't change when you change the setting - I've got this folder in Bazaar and I can see everything that changed18:13
daubershttp://library.gnome.org/admin/system-admin-guide/stable/gconf-9.html.en <- suggests the setting is /desktop/gnome/background/picture_filename18:14
awilkinsThat's the setting stored in that file18:15
awilkinsIt's kind of like the registry, only not an evil great bit BLOB database18:15
daubersYeah, I suppose it assumes you're using some kind of gnome type wm?18:16
awilkinsThe mtime on that element says it's not been changed recently18:16
awilkinsThere are other settings in gconf that change when you change the theme / wallpaper but not this one18:17
DaraelWRT the erlier comment about warty-final-ubuntu.png: my memory, if it helps, is that every release-wallpaper has been warty-final-ubuntu.png - this annoyed me, faintly.18:17
awilkinsIt's the purple plasma thing18:18
daubersawilkins: Change it with gconftool-2 and see if the bg changes?18:18
ali1234/usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final-ubuntu.png is correct18:19
awilkinsali1234, What, even if I have the Ocelot wallpaper selected?18:19
ali1234what is the ocelot wallpaper?18:19
ali1234is it a picture of an ocelot?18:19
awilkinsIt's kind of a Retro Tron Ocelot18:19
ali1234ah yeah18:20
awilkinsAn Ocelot from Darwinia18:20
ali1234dunno then18:20
ali1234why do you even want to know?18:20
awilkinsTrying to work out how to change all the wallpaper using Puppet18:20
ali1234i would politely suggest that bzr sucks and probably just missed the change18:20
ali1234and you should use git instead18:20
awilkinsbzr doesn't suck18:20
ali1234yeah it does18:21
awilkinsI've used it since it's zero-point-something versions... it's different to git but I wouldn't characterise it as sucking18:21
daubersawilkins: Do you know the name of the program that changes the wallpaper?18:21
ubuntuuk-planet[James Tait] Whats in a name? - http://voices.canonical.com/james.tait/2011/10/14/whats-in-a-name/18:22
awilkinsIt's whatever the Appearance settings panel is18:22
awilkinsNope, not anymore18:22
awilkinsgnome-control-center summons the top level of it18:23
* daubers would just go to the source18:24
* daubers goes to the indian for dinner18:27
ali1234awilkins: it all goes over dbus: http://pastebin.com/HXppDeug18:27
ali1234seems to touch both dconf and gconf18:28
ali1234dconf being the "new" thing18:28
awilkinsdconf... that must be some kind of cloud thing18:29
awilkinsIt's not in a folder called .dconf18:29
ali1234it's probably in a nasty binary blob somewhere18:29
awilkinsBinary files dconf/user2011-10-14 18:01:54 +0000 and dconf/user2011-10-14 18:23:23 +0000 differ18:30
* awilkins passes them into a fancy binary file-compare-o-matic18:31
awilkinsYup, that's where it is18:32
* awilkins sees that this file is a serialized GVariant and remembers "Variant" from VB18:34
* awilkins shudders18:34
ali1234remember when gconf came out and everyone said "lol, registry"18:34
ali1234and they said "no, you can still edit the files"18:34
ali1234but now that has been fixed with dconf18:34
awilkinsI even wrote a library with the same API as the registry calls for VB6 that used a tree of INI files to store the settings18:35
ali1234how did that work out with ntfs filesystem limits?18:35
awilkinsWasn't that bad, not too many settings18:35
awilkinsNot like I was trying to store the REAL registry in it18:35
awilkinsIt was much easier to deploy apps with, it had global defaults and user overrides and everything, and you just copied the files to the profiles folders18:36
awilkinsMuch like a lot of *nix apps that get ported to Windows18:36
awilkinsThe thing that makes the registry look like a filesystem in Powershell is probably testament that you really want to be able to manage these things with tools as powerful as those for files18:38
awilkinsIck, it's like an ouroboros of Ghandi - both MS and Unix are doomed to reinvent each other badly18:38
awilkinsSo, the UI themes are still in gconf but the background has been moved to dconf18:40
ali1234you should have patched windows18:42
ali1234and put the whole registry in it18:42
awilkinsAs you note, NTFS would melt down18:43
ali1234do it for the lulz18:43
awilkinsThe registry is fricking HUGE and contains this enormous database of stuff about how everything works in Windows18:43
ali1234i know18:44
awilkinsImagine putting HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT in INI files18:44
ali1234i know, lulzy right?18:44
awilkinsYou'd start an app and your disk would thrash for a week18:44
awilkins(ok, another week, this IS windows)18:44
ali1234as if windows doesn't do that anyway18:44
awilkinsI'm getting a laptop refresh next week18:45
awilkinsIt should be one of those great big HP Elitebooks like an aircraft carrier18:45
awilkinsA shame they are going to anchor it to bedrock with Windows, Antivirus, etc18:45
awilkinsIf it has a second drive bay I'm shoving an SSD with Oneiric in it18:46
MonsterwizardOk I need to try and find these files but I thnk they don't exists anymore18:50
Monsterwizardin fact they can't18:51
awilkinsThat one will be gone18:52
awilkinsI presume you've installed?18:52
awilkinsMonsterwizard, If keeping files in /etc is important to you, maybe etckeeper would be helpful (never used it myself)18:56
Monsterwizardahh ok I look at that18:56
popeyGood evening everyone18:56
ross_ok so I'm learning the terminal19:05
ross_When I type ls -a at an empty folder19:05
ross_it lists . and ..19:05
ross_what are these?19:05
AlanBellthey are your current directory (.) and parent directory (..)19:07
AlanBellso cd .. changes directory to the parent directory and goes up the hierachy19:08
ross_AlanBell this resource is telling if I type ' cd.' would make you stay where you are in the directory19:08
AlanBell"cd ." would indeed do that (you need the space)19:09
ross_oh :P thank you19:10
ross_so cd . takes me back to my home folder19:10
popey. is the current folder, whichever one you happen to be in19:10
popeycd ~19:10
popeythat will take you "home"19:10
popeythe ~ is shorthand for home19:11
ross_I see19:11
ross_thank you popey19:11
popeyno problem19:11
ross_command line gives me POWER!19:14
andyc`cd` takes you home as well, and you can cd ~username to go to username's home folder19:15
ross_The output of ls ~/.. is 'ross'19:17
ross_does that show the users19:17
andycThats the list of files in the folder above your home19:17
andyc.. is the directory above, . is the current directory19:18
andychence if you do ls -a there will always be a . and a ..19:18
ross_wait...I don't understand. Why would there always be a . and ..19:20
DJonesPhew, finally got my server up and running again, faulty power supply caused shutdown, take hdd out into chassis of another machine of the same model, beep, beep, beep, go away to think about it, realise that there's no memory in the machine...Doh!19:20
andycSo you can do things like `cp * ..`19:21
andycto move all files to the directory above19:21
DJonesNow to build a new replacement server with sata drives & also rebuild a laptop for my father-in-law19:22
andycOr you could do `cp /mnt/disk/somefile .` to copy a file from somewhere to your current directory19:23
andyc20:21, I meant copy not move...19:24
ross_hmm I'm trying to copy a file from my Documents folder into a folder in my home directory19:25
ross_first  I typed cp ~/Documents/random.txt but it doesn't recognise the command19:26
andycyou need a destination19:26
ross_what's a destination?19:26
ross_but wait19:26
andyc`cp ~/Documents/random.txt ~/whereyouwanttoputthefile`19:26
AlanBellross_: this is what . is handy for :)19:27
ross_See I thought because I was in ~/unixstuff it would copy anyway19:27
andycYes - you don't need to type lots :)19:27
AlanBell`cp ~/Documents/random.txt .` copies it to "here" wherever you may be19:27
ross_:O oh cool19:27
andycOr if you are in ~/unixstuff, you could `cp ../Documents/random.txt .`19:27
ross_because the . represents the current directory, correct?19:28
ross_and the .. reprents the home directory19:29
ross_Difficult to grasp at first19:29
AlanBellno, .. is just one above where you are19:29
andycAnd because you are in ~/unixstuff, the .. represents ~ (The folder above ~/Documents), so you can `cp ../Documents/random.xtx .` which means get the file random.txt from the directory Documents from the folder above and copy it in my current directory19:30
ross_right so if I was in Documents .. would take me to my ross(home) folder19:30
andycAgh, I mistyped that - I mean (The folder above ~/unixstuff)19:30
andycWhy do GIDs change with new ubuntu versions?19:44
esteevengood evening. I have a fresh install of 11.10 but there are no tty consoles. Are they disabled by default?19:46
ross_so I'm typing grep -v science science.txt but I am not sure what it's doing19:49
AlanBellesteeven: no, they should be there19:49
esteevenAlanBell> Hmmmm. I thought so. They are not.19:49
AlanBellross_: it is looking for the word "science" in the file called science.txt19:49
ross_what does the -v mean19:50
ross_any ideas19:50
AlanBellesteeven: ctrl+alt+f1 works for me, ctrl+alt+f7 brings me back19:50
AlanBellross_: try "man grep"19:50
esteevenAlanBell> :) not for me........not yet.19:51
ross_ooo interesting19:51
AlanBellross_: ah, it does the opposite of what I said :)19:51
ross_Yeah I don;t understand what it is actually saying19:52
AlanBellit should return all the lines from the file that don't contain "science"19:52
ross_see those were words I can understand19:53
AlanBellInvert the sense of matching, to select non-matching lines.  (-v is specified by POSIX.)19:54
AlanBellyeah, that is a bit cryptic19:54
AlanBellthe manual pages tend to use rather precise language19:54
esteevenAlanBell> I suspect that it may be that I installed from a beta. I'll get a torrent and try again :)19:55
andycCan I change the system monospace font in unity?19:56
ross_ah interesting19:57
ross_Once I typed cat then wrote a few words before pressing ctrl D it copies what I say19:57
ross_I'm reading about redirecting the output19:58
ross_when I type 'who' it lists three of me...the same and only user on the machine, any ideas why>?20:09
andycHow many terminals do you have open?20:12
^aDaMandyc, the andyc ? \o/20:12
^aDaMI'msure I have said this to you before.20:12
andycI doubt I'm "The andyc"20:13
andycIf you mean "The andyc" who is sat ina  room in manchester on IRC and reading fairly useless tech news on twitter20:14
andycThen yes20:14
andyctis me20:14
ross_I have two terminals open20:16
andycIf you type `who`, it will show username, tty, and a time20:17
ross_Ohh I see20:17
andycif you type tty in one of the terminals20:17
andycIt will say something like /dev/pts/020:17
andycWhich corresponds to one of the rows in the table returned by who20:17
andycThis new installation of 11.10 HATES coming back from another tty to X20:21
andycI get really horrible artifacts/complete blackness on the screen20:21
^aDaMhaha andyc, my bad lol I was thinking more like the Andy C Drum 'n' Bass DJ :D20:29
zleapgood evening20:38
zleaphello ross_20:40
=== ross is now known as Guest96894
MooDooevening all21:59
Pernighi MooDoo22:04
MooDoohullo :D22:04
MooDoostill at work, getting tired :)22:04
Pernigi bet!22:04
MooDoostill finish at 12 :D22:11
StevenRhrrm. what's the unity launcher settings app called?22:18
* buzz_ just switched to xfce on ubuntu22:57
buzz_the global menu on ubuntu was giving me wrist ache. felt like im constantly moving the mouse back and forth22:59
buzz_(i know it can be removed/disabled but thats 1 of many things)23:00
TheOpenSourcererbuzz_: I think the global menu sucks. It just demands too much mouse mileage23:04
buzz_thats my feeling23:05
ali1234where were you guys 6 months ago?23:06
ali1234seriously :(23:06
buzz_i was here23:06
buzz_moaning about unity23:06
AlanBellhere, saying that the global menu sucks23:06
TheOpenSourcererThe nautilus toolbar has now gone. You have to navigate to the top of the screen to do *anything* mouse-driven23:06
TheOpenSourcererAlanBell:  Feeling better now?23:07
AlanBellyeah, had a sleep23:07
TheOpenSourcererI won the chilli eat-off :-D (Of course)23:08
AlanBellnaturally :)23:08
gordAlanBell, thats the version of unity from a year ago no?23:08
AlanBellgord: yes, 2010-10-2823:08
buzz_still, it illustrates the global menu point23:09
gordthat doesn't happen anymore23:09
AlanBellgord: yes, there is a clone on monitor 2 now23:09
TheOpenSourcererGoing to Lincolnshire tomorrow. I'm off to the Catchpoles are emigrating at end of the month.23:09
AlanBellwhich sometimes even works23:09
ali1234AlanBell: um. no?23:11
ali1234on this machine, the global menu is only on the same monitor as the window23:11
TheOpenSourcererWhat's a decent alternative to Unity? i.e. One that is intuitive and doesn't GET IN MY WAY?23:11
buzz_https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/668415 is like the window gadget position thing all over again. . Marks comment isnt relevant anymore since the ubuntu button is in the launcher now, but i assume canonical will have another reason why they wont let users configure things how they like23:11
lubotu3Ubuntu bug 668415 in Ubuntu "Movement of Unity launcher" [Undecided,Won't fix]23:11
ali1234TheOpenSourcerer: there is none. sorry23:11
TheOpenSourcererThought so.23:12
ali1234the closest to being workable is xfce23:12
AlanBellali1234: oh, I see, if a window overlaps then it is on both23:12
TheOpenSourcererWill stick on 10.10 for a while yet then.23:12
ali1234but it is closer to gnome 1.x than gnome 2.x23:12
buzz_gord, when will ubuntu listen to users? when they have all ditched the main ubuntu desktop environment ? :)23:12
ali1234which is to say, nothing works right, and it's really ugly and has no good themes23:12
TheOpenSourcerer"Shiny" isn't the issue...23:13
AlanBellbuzz_: depends what they say and when they say it23:13
ali1234gnome 2.x with human theme was never shiny23:13
ali1234it's just the only one that isn't completely horrible23:14
gordupdates always bring slight inconveniences, mountains and molehills i say personally23:14
TheOpenSourcerer*slight* inconveniences...23:14
ali1234the other day i finally found a KDE user willing to listen to me explain in detail why KDE is ugly and at the end he was like "damn now i hate KDE"23:14
ali1234and XFCE is no better at the moment23:15
gordgnome 3 bugged me, but i just kept using it, reported problems to the desktop team, we distro-patched some stuff to make it slightly nicer. but i never felt like throwing the baby out with the bathwater23:15
ali1234XFCE looks like KDE after you turn off the glowing gradient transparency effects23:16
buzz_AlanBell, yeh well, ok, so ubuntu ignore what most users want from their desktop environment then. thats how it looks here from reading bugs and forum posts over the last years (and looking at the numbers of people jumping ship to say linuxmint - just ubuntu with a different ui). ubuntu underneath is "mostly" decent. just the UI stuff is the problem, and complaints have been falling on deaf ears since it all started23:16
TheOpenSourcererGnome2 wasn't broken!23:16
ali1234it kinda was23:16
ali1234it was just less broken than everything else23:16
gordthats what people said about gnome 1 ;)23:17
TheOpenSourcererIt's not just Ubuntu/Canonical's fault but currently everything seems to suck balls.23:17
AlanBellunity is looking fixable to me right now23:17
AlanBellanother 6 months and it will be good for the LTS23:17
ali1234i already gave you my shopping list of how to fix unity23:17
ali1234none of it will be implemented though23:18
andres-kainGuys cheer up! look at this job trend: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=ubuntu+linux%2C+windows7&l=23:18
buzz_AlanBell, will it still need a middle mouse click ? im sure it will. the whole concept is broken imho23:18
TheOpenSourcererAlanBell: *we* don't have the bandwidth to fix it ;-)23:18
AlanBellfix the alt tab oddness, fix the global menu23:18
AlanBellTheOpenSourcerer: not my kind of development stuff at all really23:18
AlanBellfix the apps lens23:18
ali1234andres-kain: you made a typo: http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=ubuntu+linux%2C+windows+7&l=23:18
andres-kainOK but now put the y axis in logaritmic scale...23:19
ali1234it doesn't have log...23:20
andres-kainok use relative http://www.indeed.com/jobtrends?q=windows%2C+ubuntu&l=&relative=123:20
hamitron<TheOpenSourcerer> It's not just Ubuntu/Canonical's fault but currently everything seems to suck balls.  <--- nothing more to say ;)23:20
ali1234i say we start a protest outside canonical towers23:21
TheOpenSourcererUbuntu 10.10 was/is a great OS. It's reliable, doesn't GET IN MY WAY, and *just works*. Not seen anything to match it since.23:21
ali1234what do we want?23:21
ali1234we're not sure!23:22
ali1234when do we want it?23:22
ali12346 months time!23:22
* hamitron is looking forward to 12.0423:22
andres-kainis it not going to be monthly release after 10.04?23:22
TheOpenSourcererOh yeah that would be even better <sarcasm> go down the Mozilla - every 6 week major release - that sucks too (as an extension developer/maintainer).23:24
* hamitron would scrap the 6 monthly releases, and just have LTS.... but encourage PPA23:24
andres-kainhamitron that sounds good.23:26
* AlanBell expects lively remote participation in the Unity UDS sessions23:26
hamitronI'd bring back i586 binary too23:27
hamitronencourage different branches with different GUI23:27
andres-kainas an extension developer/maintainer quick releases means more work and more jobs: does it not?  companies will not be able to stick to their 5 year old code not maintained.23:27
ali1234you wish23:27
AlanBellhamitron: I would drop 32 bit binary23:28
hamitronAlanBell, another option, yes23:28
hamitronbut I'd go for a wide audience23:28
ali1234hamitron: that's exactly the problem that has got us in this mess23:28
hamitronmy thoughts were more for the project Lubuntu23:28
ali1234everyone wants to be apple23:28
ali1234have a wide audience23:29
TheOpenSourcererAnyway - time for bed from me on Ubuntu 10.10 (Pidgin).23:29
buzz_some hardware still needs 32 bit23:29
ali1234at the expensive of their existing audience23:29
buzz_plenty im sure23:29
TheOpenSourcererali1234: Not me - I have no interest in being Apple23:29
TheOpenSourcererApple = lockin23:29
hamitronali1234, I don't agree23:29
ali1234the lockin stuff is a smokescreen23:30
TheOpenSourcererali1234: What? for more lockin?23:30
ali1234apple does not have lockin23:30
hamitronI see no point in Shuttleworth mentioning Lubuntu, if there is no support for older hardware23:30
ali1234they don't even charge for their SDK23:30
TheOpenSourcererThey are far worse than MS for tying customers into their world23:30
TheOpenSourcererOh FFS. nn23:31
ali1234the "lockin" is used as a smokescreen by the people who want to position linux in the same market segment23:32
ali1234"we're just like apple, except without the lockin"23:33
ali1234"look, see, we have a dock, and a global menu"23:33
ali1234"but we are OPEN"23:33
andres-kain"and cheap and work on any computer"23:34
hamitrontbh, the "free" as-in cheap is what wins me over ;)23:34
ali1234open source software was never supposed to compete on price23:35
buzz_i wouldnt pay for ubuntu23:35
* hamitron would23:35
hamitron£5 maybe23:35
ali1234i would pay for a distro with 5 years support for gnome 2.x starting today23:35
andres-kainI am tempted on paying for support. not licence.23:35
* hamitron was thinking that23:36
ali1234no, debian doesn't support anything23:36
hamitrontbh, most distro don't, do they? :/23:36
ali1234pretty much23:36
hamitronRedhat maybe? ;)23:37
ali1234i guess i could switch to red hat23:37
ali1234but finding rpms for it is a nightmare23:37
hamitronI've decided to use slackware on my 32 bit comps now23:38
buzz_i much prefer the debian setup. especially the use of conf.ds for lots of stuff. tidy23:38
ali1234ok let me rephrase23:38
hamitronthen hoping ubuntu 12.04 for 64 bit23:38
andres-kainscientific linux23:38
ali1234i would pay for a debian based distro that commited to maintaining gnome 2.x for 5 years23:38
andres-kainscientific linux will do the rpm search for you I think.23:39
ali1234as long as they appeared to have the resources necessary for such a task23:39
buzz_ali1234, just maintaining or forking/improving ?23:39
ali1234buzz_: maintaining - in the sense of making sure the latest version of firefox etc works properly with it23:39
ali1234and all other commonly used software23:39
ali1234basically a suite of software similar to what you'd find on ubuntu23:40
ali1234and kernel updates23:41
ali1234you know, the usual distro stuff23:41
buzz_im happy enough to use xfce on ubuntu for now.23:41
hamitronwhy not just aim to have a ubuntu base, with a Gnome 2.x set of packages?23:41
buzz_yeh that should be doable.. gnome2 ppa for ubuntu or so23:42
ali1234but you have to make sure it works properly23:42
ali1234you can't just compile it and get my money23:42
ali1234and you have to keep it working for 5 years23:42
hamitroncould i not compile it, and get your money then? ;)23:42
ali1234or at least until something better comes along23:42
hamitronk :/23:42
AlanBellwhat is the plan for the gnome2 packages?23:43
AlanBell!info libgnome2-023:44
lubotu3libgnome2-0 (source: libgnome): The GNOME library - runtime files. In component main, is optional. Version 2.32.1-0ubuntu3 (natty), package size 58 kB, installed size 232 kB23:44
AlanBellstuff like that in main, is it staying in main?23:44
hamitronI read in here from someone, it was going to be removed in 11.1023:44
andres-kain!info stayinginmain?23:44
lubotu3Package stayinginmain does not exist in natty23:44
andres-kainthe computer says no23:45
buzz_probably as long as it is in debian for ?23:45
buzz_actually i dunno..23:45
buzz_i really should read how they pull updates from debian and work out what to remove strip out and replace with their own stuff etc.23:45
ali1234they sync with debian in every cycle23:46
ali1234then apply a bunch of patches23:46
ali1234the patches used to go upstream more23:47
ali1234then ubuntu developers introduced a load of subtle security bugs into debian23:47
buzz_yeh but i mean more specifically, because some packages must be removed completely no? or installing them could break stuff23:47
ali1234now the patches don't go upstream quite so much23:47

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