FlannelNothing's going on right now, correct?02:34
mewayFlannel, http://manasource.org/downloads02:34
mewayplease read the top of this page02:34
Flannelmeway: Yes, 0.5.3 is current02:35
mewayon that page read below mainline02:35
Flannelmeway: so... You want to install an updated yet still deprecated client?02:36
mewayno that is the one ubuntu has in its repository..02:36
Flannelmeway: 0.5.2 is in the repositories, that is the prior release to the latest release (0.5.3).02:36
mewayFlannel, read this entire page02:37
mewayMana is the up to date client tmw is the old deprecated client in the repo02:37
mewayThe game that the client runs is The Mana world02:37
mewayTmw is a game client *not just one game*02:38
Flannelmeway: If I go to the downloads page on themanaworld, I get 0.5.2.  In fact, that page directs you to the Ubuntu repositories.02:38
mewayFlannel, did you read the page itself?02:38
Flannelmeway: I did.  Perhaps you should just start telling me what I'm supposed to see instead of linking me to a page full of text.02:39
FlannelSince, obviously one of us is confused.02:39
mewayIt was 1.5 years ago that the Mana project split off from The Mana World, so that the server and client software could be developed independently from the content of the game.02:39
Flannelmeway: The 0.5.2 client is the one released in April of 2011, which is the date of of that post on themanaworld.org and effectively the date of the software in the repositories.02:40
Flannel"that post" being the latest post.02:40
mewayif you install the client it says in the upper right corner v0.0.29.102:41
mewayso how can that be true?02:41
Flannel(the software in the repositories was April 30th, with an update at the end of May for some packaging issues)02:41
mewaysudo apt-get install tmw gives me v0.0.29.102:42
mewayI want 0.5.302:42
mewayof Mana02:42
mewaytmw is now named mana02:43
Flannelmeway: Lets back up.  What version of Ubuntu are you on?02:43
mewaythe latest02:43
Flannelmeway: 11.10?02:43
mewaynot this machine02:43
mewaythe one downloaded with wubi02:43
FlannelAlright.  So, in 11.04, the "tmw" package is 0.29.1-3 (package version).  In 11.10, the tmw package version is 1.0+git20110505-2.02:44
mewayFlannel, so wth does that mean ? xD02:45
FlannelThe latter package version depends on mana, and recommends tmw-music.  The "mana" package it depends on (and will be installed with it) is 0.5.2-2 (the -2 is the clerical error I mentioned earlier)02:45
mewayI am confused02:46
Flannelmeway: If I had to guess, I'd say you were actually on 11.04, or that you need to be running mana and not tmw.  This is a different machine?02:46
mewaydifferent machine02:46
mewayI am on lubuntu on this machine02:47
mewaythis may have caused me some confusion02:47
Flannelmeway: Alright.  Next time you get back to that machine, you can check your version with `lsb_release -a`02:47
Flannelmeway: If you are on 11.04, you can get to the latest mana by upgrading to 11.10 (and if you decide to reinstall, then installing "tmw" will get you tmw and mana)02:47
mewayUbuntu 11.0402:47
Flannelmeway: If you do happen to be on 11.10, it may be confusion about tmw versions vs mana versions.02:48
mewaywhy is mana not available on 11.04?02:48
mewayI don't understand how the repo thing works TBH02:49
mewayI just know that it gives me a really old client02:49
Flanneltmw is.  mana 0.5.0 was only released in January of 2011, so it apparently wasn't packaged in time for 11.04.  Either it wasn't considered stable enough, or someone just didn't have enough time.02:50
Flannelmeway: Debian Import Freeze (one of the milestones for release) happened in December of 2010, so that is likely the largest reason.02:51
FlannelA 0.5.x release wasn't out in time for 11.04, put simply.02:51
meway;_; any way to adjust?02:52
mewaybesides wait :(02:53
Flannelwaiting won't help.  11.04 will never have it.  The most straightforward method would be to upgrade to 11.1002:53
Flannel(or just use a machine that already has 11.10, your current Lubuntu, perhaps)02:54
mewayFlannel, is there a way to adjust it on your own?02:56
Flannel"adjust it"?02:56
mewaylike point your system in the correct direction02:56
mewaywith package manager02:57
FlannelOh.  Well, I'm looking at the individual dependencies now, to see if you'd be able to satisfy everything by installing the 11.10 package on 11.04.  This obviously isn't preferred, but it may be technically possible.  I'm about halfway done at the moment.02:58
Flannelmeway: So, it appears that there's only one package that won't play well.  Unfortunately, it's a core package and not something you can upgrade without breaking a lot of the rest of your system.03:00
mewaylol ok03:00
FlannelSo unfortunately it looks like you can either upgrade to 11.10, or compile it yourself (and with the amount of dependencies, that's going to require you to get your hands pretty dirty)03:02
mewayooh fun >.<03:03
mewayFlannel, why could I not just edit the sources.list?03:30
mewayand than remove the line03:30
mewayafter installing tmw?03:30
Flannelmeway: Because all that would do is allow you to install the 11.10 package on 11.04, which would cause the bad things I mentioned earlier03:31
mewayI will take the risk :s03:31
Flannelmeway: It'll break your system.  You should just upgrade if you're going to do that.03:32
mewaywhat will it break exactly?03:32
Flannelmeway: Well, it's going to upgrade a C library, which a lot of your current system uses.  So, hypothetically... it'll break all sorts of things.03:33
FlannelI'm sorry I don't have a more precise answer, but anything that depends on that library could stop working properly.03:33
mewayagain I will take the risk and update later xD03:34
Flannelmeway: Alright.  When things break, please don't ask for support in #ubuntu.03:35
mewayk what line to add?03:35
FlannelYou'll have to figure it out on your own.  I'm not going to help you break things.03:35
Flannelmeway: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories is a good place to start reading up on repositories.03:36
mewaydeb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/ oneiric universe03:37
mewayFlannel, why not its my machine I am planning on updating03:37
mewayI might as well go out with a bang03:37
mewayand everything on this machine is backed up03:37
Flannelmeway: So... upgrade it.  Why waste your time?03:38
mewayFlannel, because I am curious03:39
mewayand breaking things helps me learn03:39
Flannelmeway: I'm glad you're interested in learning.  I suggest you start by reading up on the repositories and how they work instead of just taking a shot in the dark, which won't really help you learn anything except "don't do that".03:40
mewayplex link for my?03:42
Flannelmeway: I don't really grok that sentence, but I think you were asking for this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories03:42
mewayi_i but tht looksing nothing likes http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/ oneiric universe03:43
mewaywitch is similar to I think I want03:43
Flannelmeway: No, that's a page for you to read, not a link to put in your sources.list03:44
mewayplex link for my sources.list03:44
sebsebseb 05:17
* jcastro taps the mic13:52
jcastro2 minute warning!13:58
jcastroI'll give it another minute for people to show up14:00
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Introduction and General Ubuntu Q&A - Instructors: jcastro
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/17/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.14:01
jcastroAnother 2 minutes or so and we'll get started14:01
jcastroso grab some caffeine or whatever. :)14:01
jcastroOk let's get started14:04
jcastroEvery one welcome to Open Week for 11.10!14:04
jcastroFor those of you not familiar with openweek, this is a weeklong set of IRC workshop sessions14:04
jcastroSo you can hang out and learn things about Ubuntu, and ask and answer questions14:04
jcastroSo first off, what kind of sessions will we have?14:05
jcastrothe schedule is here ^^^14:05
jcastroand if you look at the grid you can see the schedule14:05
jcastrowe start this at the same time every day14:05
jcastroif you miss a session, don't worry, over the course of the week people will link the session logs in the schedule14:05
jcastroso you'll be able to catch up afterwards if you miss a session14:06
jcastroThe way this works is we have 2 IRC channels14:06
jcastrowe have this room, #ubuntu-classroom14:06
jcastroand then we have #ubuntu-classroom-chat14:06
jcastroyou should probably hang out in both14:06
jcastroThe presenter usually talks in #ubuntu-classroom14:06
jcastrothis is where they're giving their "talk" to the audience14:07
jcastroyou can use #ubuntu-classroom-chat as a sort of meta channel to discuss the topic that's going on in here14:07
jcastroso that way the presenter can keep presenting14:07
jcastroand you all can banter on and chit chat on the chat channel14:07
jcastroIn order to ask questions, you need to ask the bot in #ubuntu-classroom-chat14:08
jcastrothis queues up the questions for the presenter14:08
jcastroand then the bot pastes the question in here14:08
jcastrowhich then the presenter can answer14:08
jcastroso, in order to ask a question during this week, in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, you need to ask the bot, and preface the question with QUESTION:14:08
jcastrofor example14:08
jcastroClassBot: QUESTION: What is 2+2?14:09
jcastrothe bot will then pm the presenter and then paste the question in here14:09
jcastro(the answer is 42)14:09
jcastrothe presenter will then move on to the next question14:09
jcastroDoes anyone have any questions on how the classroom runs?14:09
jcastroso, we've got a good set of content for today14:10
jcastroafter this session we're going to have 2 sessions that will be good for local teams14:11
jcastroand how to contribute to Ubuntu at a "local" level14:11
jcastroand then at 1700UTC Clint will be doing a session on juju, which is a deployment/service orchestration tool for servers (juju.ubuntu.com)14:12
jcastrofor the rest of this session however, I can answer any burning questions you have about ubuntu14:12
jcastrothough if we can keep those to a high level about the project that might  be best. aka don't ask me to fix your Flash. :)14:13
jcastroAny questions?14:13
ClassBotL4rynx asked: ​ WIll there be a proxy support for ubuntu-one?14:15
jcastroYep, it's the first thing they're working on this cycle: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/+bug/38730814:15
jcastroSee comment #15514:15
ClassBotjsjgruber-l-onei asked: ​ Do we know yet if Wayland will be used in Precise?14:15
jcastroWayland will not be used in any form (by default) in P14:16
jcastrogiven that it doesn't really do anything yet14:16
jcastrothere are some plans to try to bring some of those in a tech preview14:16
jcastrobut as the thread says, it will be a low priority task for 12.0414:17
jcastromore questions?14:17
ClassBotjsjgruber-l-onei asked: ​ Speaking of Jorge/Awesome, anything concrete yet on using hangouts for UDS? I think you have a great idea there.14:20
jcastroI would like to try to use a google hangout for a workshop14:20
jcastrohowever they are currently limited to 10 people14:20
jcastroso "not yet", until they allow us to do a hangout like will.i.am did14:20
jcastrowhere it lets 10 people talk at the same time14:20
jcastroand the rest is broadcast through youtube14:21
jcastrothen people can rotate in and out of the session, ask their question, and then make room for someone else to ask  a question14:21
jcastroI'll personally be experimenting with it, as well as how we can use Hangouts at UDS to make remote participation there better.14:21
jcastromore questions!14:21
=== Wilczek_ is now known as Wilczek
ClassBotakgraner asked: In your personal opinion, where is the easiest place for new people to the community to start contributing?14:24
jcastrothat depends14:24
jcastroHelping other users is probably the easiest way to get started14:24
jcastroyou can do this either14:24
jcastroa) locally, in your geographical area14:24
jcastroor b) on the internets14:24
jcastrob) you can do through irc, forums, askubuntu, mailing lists, or one of  the other billion ways people can talk on the internet14:25
jcastroincluding facebook, google plus, twitter, etc.14:25
jcastrocontributing locally can be harder, especially if there's no one else close to you to hang out with!14:25
jcastrobut Randall's session afterwards will go into more detail14:26
jcastroyou can also contribute by just finding something to do in the project and doing it14:26
jcastrofor example:14:26
jcastroyou can contribute to updating wiki pages on the ubuntu help wiki14:26
jcastroor join one of the other teams in the community14:26
jcastrohas a list of teams that do stuff around the project14:27
jcastroyou can find something to do and just go join a team and do something you'd like to do14:27
ClassBotarmin asked: Ubuntu One sells music, are there any plans for expanding that and or adding movies/series?14:29
jcastroI am not sure of any plans to do that right now14:29
jcastrobut it would be great!14:29
ClassBotsebsebseb asked: What do you think the main features of 12.04 will be?14:29
jcastroWe won't know until after UDS14:29
jcastrobut I suspect not many new features14:29
jcastromaybe a few things here and there, but most of the work into an upcoming LTS cycle is "we have to support this for 3 years on the desktop and 5 years on the server"14:30
jcastroso I suspect many developers will not land something in this cycle, it'll just be improvements to existing things14:30
jcastroand you won't likely see default applications being swapped  out either14:31
jcastrowe've had 2 large transitions the past 2 releases (first unity, then GTK/GNOME3), so we'll likely take this cycle to polish that off14:31
ClassBotbabai asked: Will there be visual/feature changes in unity in precise? or only stability improvements as its an lts release?14:31
jcastroprobably not many14:31
jcastroyou might see a tweak here or there in places where unity doesn't comply with the design yet, but like the rest of the distro, most everything will be fixes and polish14:32
jcastronow that the API for the dash is stable14:33
jcastroyou'll likely see more new lenses from people and stuff like that14:33
jcastrowhich will add new features to your dash as you install them, but I wouldn't expect major changes in Unity itself other than polish.14:33
jcastromore questions?14:33
=== tau is now known as Guest5691
ClassBotmhall119 asked: Any change of UEC being moved to OpenStack for 12.04 server?14:34
jcastrothat's a good question14:34
jcastrofor 11.10 we're packaging openstack14:35
jcastroand it works, I've seen it work!14:35
jcastroeucalyptus is still in Ubuntu, it's in universe14:35
jcastrowhere it can be maintained better by eucalyptus folks14:35
jcastrobut for UEC we're moving to openstack14:36
jcastroI think we renamed it to just ubuntu cloud guest, let me check14:36
jcastrohttp://www.ubuntu.com/business/cloud/overview has the overview14:37
jcastroalso has live images you can put on USB sticks with openstack14:37
jcastroso you can make a few of these, and boot off of them, and then you'd have openstack running, it's quite awesome14:37
ClassBotsebsebseb asked: If you had to use another distro for a bit instead of Ubuntu, what would you use and why?14:37
ClassBotglobin asked: will there be an easy configuration tool for unity? the casual user hardly has any possibilities!14:38
jcastroyes, right now we use this horrible tool called ccsm14:38
jcastrowhich is basically your worst nightmare14:38
jcastroThe author of ubuntu tweak has added a bunch of config stuff for unity in his tool14:38
jcastrobut unfortunately it wasn't finished in time to include it in ubuntu14:38
jcastroI am hoping we're able to put it in the software center soon so people can use it to configure their desktops, since it's a very nice tool14:39
jcastroyou can find out more information here: http://ubuntu-tweak.com/14:39
ClassBotakgraner asked: what are the 12.04 plans for qwibber?14:39
jcastrogwibber got rewritten last cycle14:39
jcastroto be all GTK3 awesome14:40
jcastrolike the other apps, I suspect it will be nothing but bugfixes and polish from now on14:40
jcastro(and yes, there are plans for google plus support as soon as they publish an API)14:40
ClassBotyouness asked: ​ what about the futur of gnome in ubuntu ?14:40
jcastroI don't think GNOME is going anywhere. :)14:41
jcastrowe've always built Ubuntu on GNOME and I don't think that's going to change any time soon14:41
jcastroas far as having a pure upstream GNOME experience, ricotz, jbicha, and others have done an awesome job maintaining the shell in Ubuntu itself14:42
jcastroso I suspect you'll only see that improve14:42
jcastroboth are attending UDS so we'll have more information on their plans in a few weeks.14:42
ClassBotxangua asked: is it true that ccsm can break your unity if you move X stuff¿14:42
jcastroThere are certain things in ccsm that break stuff14:43
jcastro(this is why it's in universe and not installed by default)14:43
jcastro(well, other than it sucking)14:43
jcastrogenerally speaking, if you stay in the unity plugin you should be fine14:43
jcastrowe disable some things that will break your setup, such as the desktop cube (no one is maintaining it unfortunately)14:44
jcastrobut be warned, a lot of tutorials on the net ignore these warnings and give you instructions on how to do a workaround, which will probably break your setup.14:44
jcastrohowever, staying within the unity plugin is usually safe14:44
jcastroif you invoke ccsm by using "about:config" in the dash it'll take you right to the unity plugin14:45
jcastrosometimes if you enable/disable plugins it will crash compiz14:45
jcastroif you find yourself in a mess that ccsm has gotten you into you can do a reset:14:45
jcastroand then deleting your .compiz directory14:45
jcastrowill usually fix that14:45
jcastrobut usually I don't mess around in the tool14:46
ClassBotjrgifford asked: Is there progress on a "Ubuntu/Unity Tweaktool"?14:46
jcastrolike I said above, ubuntu tweak is getting pretty awesome now14:47
jcastroI hope that the author submits it to the software center14:47
ClassBotsagaci asked: what's the general roadmap for unity, is it mostly finished or are there still more things to add to it?14:48
jcastrofor 12.04 as of nowish Unity is mostly finished14:48
jcastrothis cycle will be about bug fixing and polish14:48
jcastroas far as features for 12.10 and beyond, ask me in 6 months. :)14:49
jcastroAfter we get a nice stable unity that is LTSable, then we'll investigate new features14:50
ClassBotglobin asked: will there be a calendar integration with thunderbird like it used to be with evolution?14:50
jcastrothis is an active area of work that we're working with the Mozilla folks with14:50
jcastroI don't have exact details but I know both teams are working on it, we should have more information after UDS on what the plans are for that.14:50
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.14:51
jcastroLightning, which is the calendar for tbird will see 1.0 around November 9th14:51
jcastrosorry, 8th14:51
jcastro(your random tip of the day!)14:52
jcastromore questions?14:52
jcastro8 minutes left!14:52
ClassBotakgraner asked: jcastro what's the most exciting thing for you about juju and charms?14:53
jcastrowithout giving away too much from the session:14:54
jcastroit's that you can repeatably deploy services to EC2, openstack, or bare metal14:54
jcastroso in the same way that "apt" makes it easy to install stuff on your one computer14:54
jcastrojuju will do for your data center14:54
jcastroso instead of manually installing wordpress on a bunch of machines14:54
jcastroyou can just say "juju deploy wordpress" and then juju will take care of the rest, using either EC2, or openstack.14:55
jcastroI can deploy a hadoop cluster in about 5 minutes with juju14:55
jcastrobefore that would have taken me hours14:55
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.14:55
ClassBotjrgifford asked: Is there a way to find existing charms for juju?14:56
jcastroright now they're in code.launchpad.net/charm14:56
jcastrobut we're working on making that easier so you can just search and use them from juju itself14:56
jcastroright now you have to manually DL the charms, it's not ideal14:56
jcastrobut we'll fix that14:56
ClassBotglobin asked: on ayatana mailing list someone had the idea of typing in commands in natural language. could you see that coming in the future?14:56
jcastroI'm not good at guessing the future, but.14:57
jcastroI am old so I already know the commands, so they seem natural to me.14:57
jcastrobut I'm not sure how that would work out in practice14:57
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Contributing to Ubuntu at a Local level: A Roadmap - Instructors: rrnwexec
jcastronext up we have Randall Ross, who is going to talk about being more local with Ubuntu15:00
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/17/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.15:01
rrnwexecThank you Jorge! Your session rocked :)15:01
rrnwexecWelcome to "Contributing to Ubuntu at a Local Level: A Roadmap." This session is for anyone who wants to make a difference and help move the Ubuntu project forward without writing a single line of computer code (unless you want to.)15:01
rrnwexecWe all want to make a difference, right? ;)15:01
rrnwexecBefore I start I want to thank all of you for taking time out of your busy schedules to join me, but also and more importantly for focusing your attention on Ubuntu. I know you have many competing demands on your time. Thank you for making Ubuntu your priority.15:02
rrnwexecI should also mention that there are no *really cool* slides for this presentation this time. Normally I'd use Lernid and make some rockin slides, but this one was a bit of a tight timeline. I'll do it next time though! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lernid15:02
rrnwexecTake some time to learn about Lernid (not now though ;)15:02
rrnwexecIf you want to ask a question please type your question in in #ubuntu-classroom-chat as follows:15:02
rrnwexecQUESTION: <Your question here (city/town)>15:02
rrnwexecremember to use CAPS for QUESTION15:03
rrnwexecYou can ask a question at any time but generally I will save answering the questions until after my presentation, so please be patient. When you ask a question, please include your city/town name as I love to hear where Ubuntu people are. It's one of the most fun parts of hosting sessions like this.15:03
rrnwexecAlso, try to ask questions that relate to the topic at hand :)15:03
rrnwexecI'm Randall Ross, the Community Manager of the Ubuntu Vancouver LoCo (local community) in Vancouver Canada.15:03
rrnwexecI'm also known as the "Ubuntu Buzz Generator" as my personal mission is to ensure that Ubuntu remains on the minds of as many people as possible at all times.15:04
rrnwexecIn an age of attention scarcity, that requires buzz. If you google "Randall Ross Ubuntu", you'll get more information than you ever asked for on ways that I am trying to do that.15:04
rrnwexecWhy do I care?15:04
rrnwexecWell, in the words of a famous former cosmonaut and benevolent dictactor, "Ubuntu represents the best chance GNU/Linux has to bring free software to the foreground of everyday computing. I have no doubt of that... there is a huge opportunity, and a once-in-a-lifetime chance to use what we know and love in a way that changes millions of lives for the better." That's inspiring and I believe it and live it every day.15:05
rrnwexecI'm going to share with you a little plan that you can use to make Ubuntu more fun and more prominent in your village, town or city. I'm going to model it after the process that I followed in Vancouver in the hopes that it inspires or helps some of you take Ubuntu to the next level and create a real local Ubuntu community.15:05
rrnwexecCommunity. The word is tossed around a lot in the Ubuntu project and elsewhere. To prevent confusion I'd like to offer up my definition and the one that will be used for the purposes of this session.15:06
rrnwexecCommunity is a "gathering of people that share a common space and purpose, usually in close physical proximity to one another. Communities collaborate and share amongst members." It's a pretty simple definition, but also a subtle one. Let me explain:15:06
rrnwexecIn the world of software projects (like Ubuntu), we tend to think of community as the collection of developers that collaborate to write code, to package, to test, and to work on other technical stuff. This is a valid definition when a project is just starting, but for our purposes it is too constrained.15:06
rrnwexecIn Ubuntu, there is a broader community that includes not only developers but also artists, designers, project managers, translators, managers, marketers, and much more. However even this description is too constrained. It nicely sums up what we might call "Ubuntu contributors" but it still excludes the largest group: people who "just" use Ubuntu and love Ubuntu.15:07
rrnwexecSo as we go through this session, please keep my definition in mind. Community includes *everyone*. It includes your mom, your neighbour, your spouse, your grocer, your acupuncturist, and even your yoga instructor. If they use Ubuntu or should, they're a part of it.15:07
rrnwexec(there's a lot of yoga in Vancouver!)15:08
rrnwexecThere's a common misconception that in order to be an Ubuntu contributor one must write code. Myth busted! I'm living proof. I have never written a line of code for Ubuntu, and neither have some of my friends who are also Ubuntu Members.15:08
rrnwexecSo here we are. From our dimly lit rooms, we're watching text flow across the screen. Seems a bit lonely, doesn't it? That's another reason I wanted to "talk to you today" about contributing on a local level: It's more FUN!! The goal of Ubuntu community is to be a FUN place :)15:08
rrnwexecOk... enough ramble. On to the meat of the discussion:15:09
rrnwexecWhat can we do at a local level to bring the project forward?15:09
rrnwexecThe first step is to find your local community. This might sound simple, but in actuality it probably isn't. Where are the markers in your town that will lead you to your local Ubuntu group?15:09
rrnwexec When I arrived in Vancouver there weren't any. No billboards. No stores. No posters. Nothing. Sad sad sad.15:09
rrnwexecFirst stop: "That Large Number Company in Mountain View": Google.15:10
rrnwexecSearch for something like this "Ubuntu Vancouver" (the quotes will confine the search, so use them, and of course replace Vancouver with your city/town name.)15:10
rrnwexecWhat will you likely find? Probably not a group . But you might stumble on a mailing list for something related to Ubuntu (the kernel people perhaps)? Or perhaps you'll stumble on a discussion board, random rants about how video cards and wifi drivers don't work, Unity-bashing, or something of that nature.15:10
rrnwexecDon't let this dishearten you. Every thread you find is potentially useful as it potentially connects you to people in your town/city. Some of these people might be human, just like you! :) *** We are all human ***15:11
rrnwexecChoose some of the more coherent and recent posts and email the author(s) privately if possible. Politely ask them if they know of an Ubuntu group nearby. If they do, great! If they don't, then suggest a get-together. That's the start of an Ubuntu group.15:11
rrnwexecOne of the easiest ways to start out is a casual meeting in a coffee shop. Make a plan. Have coffee together. Pick the centre of your city, even if it means a bit of a commute for you. Why? That's where the highest concentrations of people are. You want people to see you and stumble on the meeting. You;ll want to establish a central base for the group that will make it easy to grow.15:12
rrnwexecBefore venturing out, print a small sign for the coffee shop table that says "Ubuntu Group" so that random passer-bys will notice you. You want these people to notice you. Make it look professional.15:13
rrnwexec(A sideline: If by luck you do find some online evidence of a group in your area, congratulations! You live in one of the handful of cities with a local level Ubuntu group. Your next step should be to find them. Find out when their next meeting is and plan to attend. If you have other plans, drop them. Ubuntu is more important. If no meeting is posted, email the contact(s) introduce yourself and politely ask when/where/wheth15:13
rrnwexecUbuntu is more important. Please repeat that 3 times :)15:14
rrnwexecI'll take a question now15:14
rrnwexecQUESTION for large states what recommendations do you have to motivate people to take an active role in organizing and holding events in cities that are geograhically distant from yours?15:15
rrnwexecgood question! and one that the community at large struggles with.15:16
rrnwexecone strategy is visit one or three cities in your state. take a couple of Ubuntu friends15:16
rrnwexecmake it know that you will be coming.15:17
rrnwexecbring goodies.15:17
rrnwexecyou will attract at least a few people15:17
rrnwexecand gently and politely talk to them about the many advantages of starting a local group15:17
rrnwexec(more on this advantages later).15:17
rrnwexecBack to the presentation:Now that you're at a meeting (either an established one or your ad-hoc coffee shop meeting), you can speak with others about their use of Ubuntu, plans, contributions and any other things that you feel would help you understand a way to collaborate.15:18
rrnwexecThe key to the whole adventure is to try to collaborate. Work together to move the project forward. But, when doing so, don't make process, rules, government and protocol your priority. Make simple actions your priority. Think of it this way: In the programming world, which is more valuable? A blueprint, or real running code?15:19
rrnwexecBe the person who writes the code for the community! And if you're not a leader (or don't want to be, then find the person that is and get behind him/her.) Write community by acting to grow community ever day.15:19
rrnwexecThe next thing you will need is a way to grow your new group. Two's company, three's a charm. But, if that's always the number of people at your meetings, you will quickly get tired or bored. Grow your group!15:20
rrnwexecHow? Well, the best way is to make it obvious on a LOCAL level that there is a group in your city. That means guerilla marketing on the street level. Print some simple flyers with details of the next meeting. Post them at local libraries, on street poles at busy intersections, grocery stores, anwhere you can safely do so. Put an email contact on the flyer (that's you or your leader friend) so that interested people can ask q15:20
rrnwexecIf you put up 100 flyers in perfect places, you will likely get 5 people. Thats a great start. Your next meeting will be a lot more dynamic and interesting.15:21
rrnwexecNext step: create a way for people to find you LOCALLY using the web. Though that might seem like a contradiction, there's a way to do it easily. Start a meetup group.15:22
rrnwexecIt is a small investment of money, but it's not much. You can get a month of service for $15 or so. Have your new Ubuntu friends chip in and spread the fun if you have to.15:22
rrnwexecDoes it work?15:23
rrnwexecHere's ours: http://meetup.com/ubuntuvancouver site.15:23
rrnwexecIt's been in operation for over 2 years, and you'll see we have a few members. (495 today). So, I speak from some experience when I say this works.15:23
rrnwexecwe are the largest Ubuntu group on meetup.15:23
rrnwexecWe are one of the largest meetup groups in Vancouver.15:24
rrnwexecit works.15:24
rrnwexecWhy does meetup work? It's local. People who join meetup are looking for local events and people. They will find you.15:24
rrnwexecThe founder of meetup started with a goal: "To use the internet to get people off the internet".... Pretty cool.15:24
rrnwexec(I don't work for them, nor am I on commission. I'm a happy customer.)15:25
rrnwexecA couple of things you will want to do when you start your group. First, choose group categories that are NOT all techy. Pick things that resonate with people that might use and contribute to Ubuntu.15:25
rrnwexecThis will ensure that your Ubuntu group gets off to a diverse and strong(er) start. If you are lucky you'll attract someone to the group that has a passion for marketing and facilitating events, and that will help your group grow even faster. Keep diversity a goal and first and foremost on your mind.15:26
rrnwexecSecondly, make your group description compelling and meaningful to everyday users of computers. These are the people that are coming to Ubuntu, or need to. Avoid jargon and l33t speak. Also avoid terms like "newbie", "geek" or anything else that's derogatory. They divide and discourage people. Don't try to make your group "The Loyal Order of Water Buffalo". Fred Flintstone already has a group like that. ;)15:26
rrnwexecNow, put an event on your calendar. Give yourself a three-week lead time, so that you'll get a few more members and so people can adjust their calendars to make Ubuntu a priority.15:27
rrnwexecQUESTION: If your local area has an existing LUG what is the best way to proceed with your local Ubuntu group so that they do know you are there to support them not compete with them?15:28
rrnwexecI like this question a lot.15:28
rrnwexecUbuntu is not linux.15:28
rrnwexecso there is no competition.15:28
rrnwexecThe target market for an Ubuntu group is not the same as that for a LUG. They are complemetary15:29
rrnwexecin Vancouver we have an active LUG.15:29
rrnwexecand they are meeting regularly to discuss kernel related issues. they are thriving and active, and so are we :)15:30
rrnwexecback to presenting...15:30
rrnwexecNow that you're on meetup, and you have a group. What next? Well here's where the fun comes in. Create FUN things to do, and do them!15:30
rrnwexecI'm going to list some ideas based on what has worked here, and based on where I think Ubuntu needs some help. Pick the ones that you are most interested in. Interest drives passion. And, if you are passionate, others will come along for the ride.15:30
rrnwexecCreate a presentation about an Ubuntu topic. Pick something fun that people in your community will like to learn. Choose something that is unique to Ubuntu, or at least directly related to it.15:31
rrnwexecWhat's unique to Ubuntu?15:31
rrnwexecHmm.... TONS!!!15:31
rrnwexecHow about Unity? Ubuntu Software Center? Lernid?15:31
rrnwexecnext idea: Create a support event. Gather some of your more tech-savvy members and get them together to help other Ubuntu users, or to help switch people who are trapped in the proprietary world switch over.15:32
rrnwexecOr, write an Ubuntu guide. Get a few people together who like to write and choose something that you (or others) find confusing, or something that is new, and document it.15:32
rrnwexecHow does that help?15:32
rrnwexecOr... "Why should I write a guide since there are tons of books and guides online?"15:33
rrnwexecwell.. how many of them have authors that you know?15:33
rrnwexecit's a powerful way to send the signal that Ubuntu is in your city15:33
rrnwexecNext... Organize additional events. Coffee shop meetings are nice and all that, but the sky's the limit! Use your imagination.15:33
rrnwexecIn Vancouver we have these things called TreatTuesdays. We invented the name. They are restaurant socials that occure on Tuesday nights in venues around our city (we rotate). Mixing mingling and no computers. Lots of fun!!15:34
rrnwexecMany restaurants will want your group as Tuesday is a bad night for restaurants.15:34
rrnwexecother customers will see you and be super-curious. :)15:34
rrnwexecOr... Organize a Marketing event. This can be as simple as making a banner and standing on the street with it. Talk to passers-by about Ubuntu in your town. Keep the focus on your town, not Ubuntu. Ubuntu is not just software15:35
rrnwexecUbuntu is the collection of people in your town that use, love, and contribute to the project and the ethos.15:35
rrnwexectell them that.15:35
rrnwexecOther marketing ideas:15:36
rrnwexecCreate a video or a podcast for your community.15:36
rrnwexecUse local people that love to ham it up. Show them having fun, partying, doing things with Ubuntu... but don't fixate on the software.15:36
rrnwexecOr... Reach out to local media (co-op or campus radio, local newspapers, blogs) that might want to hear about the start of an Ubuntu community.15:36
=== jsjgruber is now known as Guest79824
rrnwexecthese media outlets can be friendly to our project.15:37
rrnwexecQUESTION: you can use the LoCo Teams Portal for free, it has many of the same features as meetup.com15:37
rrnwexecThat is a good point.15:37
rrnwexecThere is an important thing that meetup currently has though: a HUGE community of non-Ubuntu people.15:38
rrnwexecUbuntu Vancouver uses the LoCo directory, and we like it, but we have yet to get a new member that way.15:39
rrnwexecIn time I think that will change. More people will naturally gravitate to the LoCo directory.15:39
rrnwexecEspecially as we make it more fun :)15:39
rrnwexecI know the fantastic people that work on the directory are planning some wonderful things to get us there.15:40
rrnwexecI'm nearing the conclusion of my presentation... please feel free to ask any questions you want.15:40
rrnwexecPart of my job as Ubuntu Buzz Generator is about inspiring people to get out of their basements, away from their terminals and chat screens, and out into the real-world, that place sometimes referred to as "meatspace".15:41
rrnwexec(I call it a job) but it's not. It's a passion and a mission.15:41
rrnwexecNow that 20 million people worldwide enjoy Ubuntu, there literally are Ubuntu humans everywhere. There are people using and enjoying Ubuntu in your town.15:41
rrnwexecDepending on who you ask, free operating systems (based on a free kernel) enjoy about 1% market share (on client computers). Of those about 50% run Ubuntu. That means 0.5% of the people in your town or city are running Ubuntu.15:41
rrnwexecSo some easy math should tell you that you are not alone. If your town has 10,000 people in it, you'll likely be able to find 50 people just like you. Pretty cool huh? If your town has more than 200 people, you are not alone ;)15:42
rrnwexecWhen you locate your Ubuntu community or create one, good things can happen. It's fun to hang out with the Ubuntu crowd. When I do, I tend to hear less complaints about computers and more enthusiasm about technology and progress. Less griping. More fun. Try it.15:42
rrnwexecI hope this session gives you a glimpse into a few quick ways to bootstrap your community get involved in Ubuntu at a local level, without being a programmer.15:43
rrnwexecQuestion time! Got some?15:43
rrnwexecWow, tough room. Maybe I've put you all to sleep :)15:44
rrnwexecQUESTION: Why are you always buzzing about Ubuntu?15:44
rrnwexecthat's a direct challenge! I love it.15:45
rrnwexecok... name one other project with the chance to change the world?15:45
rrnwexecany others?15:45
rrnwexec(ps. that was my own question... you are right sebsebseb)15:46
rrnwexecQUESTION: if creating Ubuntu buzz isn't your job, what do you do for a living?15:46
rrnwexecBy day, I'm an IT executive and strategist. I advise business leaders on how to invest in information technology to reap the greatest benefit from it.15:47
rrnwexecI'm always looking out 3-5 years into the future.15:47
rrnwexecAnd, from what I can see, this project we are talking about now is about to wash over the world like a tidal wave :)15:48
rrnwexecAny other questions? Pick something random or controversial if you want?15:48
rrnwexecWhile we are waiting for questions, who's here from Vancouver?15:49
rrnwexecand, while we're guessing that... tell me in chat which city you are in :)15:50
rrnwexecQUESTION: how often do you get the "haters" at your events?  You know, the "Unity sucks, everyone should use Arch" crowd15:50
rrnwexecgood question. we occasionally get the "I came to this meeting but really I love <insert other random thing here>"15:51
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.15:51
rrnwexecsometimes that's another distro15:51
rrnwexecI generally smile and say "Welcome to Ubuntu."15:51
rrnwexecYou are welcome here. We talk about Ubuntu because we love it.15:51
rrnwexecAnd I encourage them to find their community if ours isn't for them.15:51
rrnwexecI've yet to lose a member that way.15:52
rrnwexecsebsebseb: QUESTION: What's the difference between a LUG and LOCO really? I thought a LUG was more general to loads of differnet distros, where as a loco mainly just goes on about Ubuntu?15:52
rrnwexecA LUG is comprised of people who like to talk about kernels and the collection of software that surrounds the kernel. They tend to be mnore technical and "plumbing" oriented.15:53
rrnwexecAn Ubuntu group talks about Ubuntu, the porject, the platform, the product, and the ethos.15:54
rrnwexecVery little of that is kernel-ish.15:54
rrnwexecQUESTION: what is a good way to promote ubuntu without being like a geek or nerd or whatever negative some people say about ubuntu-users?15:54
rrnwexecExcellent question.15:54
rrnwexecThe easy answer: don't use those words, ever.15:55
rrnwexecand recruit people from all walks of life.15:55
rrnwexecmake your group non-techie.15:55
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.15:55
rrnwexecSomeone announced they are from Tempe AZ. nice to have you here!15:56
rrnwexecOk, I'll take one mor Q if anyone has it15:56
rrnwexecI guess that wraps things. Thanks for all your questions. I'm available by email if you have more. randall (at) executiv [dot] es. Send me a note and say hi, or check out my blog http://randall.executiv.es15:57
rrnwexecThanks for tuning in.. Bye for now... See you in meatspace :)15:57
rrnwexecPLEASE PLEASE PLEASE start or find the group in your city... tell them Randall sent you :)15:58
rrnwexecbye for now and enjoy Open Week.15:58
rrnwexec<I gave you 2 extra minutes to go grab a beverage and Google for a group in your city>15:59
rrnwexecI will be at UDS. Look for me.15:59
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Getting the most out of LoCo Teams Portal - Instructors: mhall119
* mhall119 waves16:01
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/17/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.16:02
mhall119hello everyone, my name is Michael Hall, and I am one of the developers of the LoCo Teams Portal (formerly the loCo Teams Directory)16:02
* nigelb waves as well16:02
mhall119and this is Nigel Babu, another one of the LTP developers16:03
mhall119I'm glad we got the slot immediately after rrnwexec, because this fits in perfectly with what he was doing16:03
mhall119The LoCo Teams Portal is a resource for Ubuntu local community teams, it helps you organize your event and meetings, as well as publicizing them to the rest of the Ubuntu community16:04
mhall119if you go to http://loco.ubuntu.com/ you will be greeted with a map to help you find a team near you, as well as a feed of news items coming from other LoCo teams16:05
mhall119there's also a feed of twitter/identica status updates that contain the hashtag #locoteams16:05
mhall119it's a great way to see the current buzz going on in the local communities16:06
mhall119if you're tweeting about something you're doing locally, be sure to use the #locoteams hashtag16:06
mhall119also, if you or your team regularly blog about your events or activities, ask to have your feed syndicated on our main page by adding it to the list here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoPortalFeeds16:07
mhall119the loco-council will review that list and add approved feeds to the site16:07
mhall119the rss feed is a new feature that we'll be expanding on soon16:08
mhall119so that's the front page16:09
mhall119you can see all the LoCo teams here: http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/16:10
mhall119LTP is available to both approved and unapproved teams alike, all you need to do is be a part of ~locoteams in Launchpad and your team will be automatically imported into LTP16:11
mhall119however, we support a lot more team information that Launchpad, so even after your team is in LTP, one of your team admins will want to log in and updated your team's information16:12
mhall119for example, http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-us-florida is my LoCo team16:12
mhall119you can see on that page our country, primary language and team contact16:12
mhall119there are also links to our webpage, wiki, forums, IRC channel and mailing list16:13
mhall119you should fill out as much of this information for your team as you can, as it helps prospective new members find you16:13
mhall119if you have an IRC channel set, LTP even provides an in-page IRC applet that will connect them to your channel16:14
mhall119you can also see at the bottom that we have some pictures from our team, LTP can pull these from Flickr, Picasa or Pix.ie accounts16:15
mhall119the more information you fill in, the more active your team will seem, and the more likely people will want to be a part of it16:15
mhall119so please, go find your team in LTP now, and see if it needs these fields entered or not16:16
mhall119any questions on the teams list/team details before we move on?16:17
mhall119alright, the next feature offered by the LTP is Event tracking16:18
mhall119there you will see a map showing the locations of upcoming LoCo Team events, as well as a list of them16:18
mhall119LTP has two classes of events, "Team Events" which are organized on a per-team basis, and "Global Events" which track multiple team events for a given theme or purpose16:19
mhall119for example, right now you can see the 11.10 release party and Ubuntu Hour global events16:19
mhall119clicking on one of those will show you all the events of participating teams16:20
ClassBotAlanBell asked: with the microblogging thing can we set it to ignore identi.ca?16:20
mhall119that's part of the LTP code, if we had a reason to remove it could be removed16:20
mhall119if you have a reason, file a bug against the loco-directory project on Launchpad16:21
mhall119in fact, if anybody ever has a problem or suggestion for us, there is a link at the bottom of every page for filing a Bug16:21
mhall119we use Launchpad to track all of our development work16:21
mhall119that is also where you should go if you want to help us with the development of LTP (more on that at the end of this session)16:22
mhall119going back to events..16:22
mhall119here's one of my team's events: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-us-florida/1280/detail/16:22
mhall119this works a lot like the meetup.com that Randall was talking about earlier16:23
mhall119you give it a time and a venue, and people can register whether or no they are going to attend16:24
mhall119you can also add comments to an event which gives you the ability to have a conversation for planning or whatnot16:24
mhall119notice that the event is in EDT time16:25
mhall119you can specify the timezone of an event in one of two ways16:25
mhall119either by having a venue with a set timezone, or by using a default timezone for your team16:25
mhall119we've also added the ability to hold "virtual" events16:26
mhall119these are events without a venue16:26
mhall119for these we provide a way to specifiy an IRC channel that will be used as the event's location16:26
mhall119you can even combine venues and IRC channels to allow both in-person and remote participation in your event16:27
mhall119all of your team's events are available as an iCal feed as well, so you can easily subscribe to them using your favorite calendar application16:27
mhall119any questionson Events before we move on?16:28
mhall119oh, one more item, if you are using something like meetup.com that has it's own registration system, there's no reason to keep two separate lists.  LTP lets you provide a registration link that will point users to another site to register, rather than tracking it separately in LTP16:28
mhall119okay, moving on16:30
mhall119the next major feature of LTP is Team Meeting tracking16:30
mhall119these work a lot like Events, but they are designed specifically for a LoCo Team's regular IRC meetings (you are having regular meetings, right?)16:31
mhall119LTP lets you define a time and channel for your meetings, it defaults to your team's IRC channel, but you can change that if you use a separate meeting channel or #ubuntu-meeting16:32
mhall119links to the logs are automatically generated based on the standard Ubuntu channel logging16:32
mhall119LTP Meetings also let you define an agenda for your meeting, this is a tree of items to be discussed16:33
mhall119you can see an example here: http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-us-florida/193/detail/16:33
mhall119each item lists who added it and when, as well as a description of the item to be discussed16:33
mhall119you can also create sub-items if you have one that needs to be broken down into smaller pieces16:34
mhall119we hope to integrate this with AlanBell's Meetingology bot, so if anyone is interested in that please ping him16:34
mhall119LTP is an open source project, and we welcome and all contributions16:35
=== firewave is now known as FireWaveJob
mhall119like Events, Meetings also have local timezones, these default to your team's default timezone, but you can change them on a per-event basis16:36
mhall119any questions on Meetings?16:36
mhall119so why should your team use the LTP?16:37
mhall119most teams already have a website and wiki16:37
mhall119and we're not out to replace either of those16:37
mhall119what LTP offers is consistent, easy to access functionality, and we centralize place for people to find out about the Ubuntu loco communities16:38
mhall119new Ubuntu users looking for people near them will often be directed to the LoCo Teams Portal, so it's important that your team has a presence there16:39
mhall119it also provides a great way for the LoCo Council and other community leaders to see how LoCo teams are doing, how active they are in events, etc16:39
mhall119it will also help you provide regular updates on your team's activity for the Ubuntu News16:40
mhall119but LTP isn't just a place to put information, we also provide a full API for accessing data16:40
mhall119details on accessing the API can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoDirectory/API16:41
mhall119we also provide iCal and RSS feeds16:41
mhall119so you can integrate LTP information into your team's website, or write a desktop, mobile, or other webapp mashup that uses this data16:41
mhall119LTP is made for the Local Teams, so if you have an idea for how to make it better for your team, please don't hesitate to talk to us about it16:43
mhall119the developers regularly hang out in #ubuntu-website on freenode, or you can file bugs against the project in Launchpad16:43
mhall119that's really all I have, are there any questions?16:44
mhall119either about LTP, or services for LoCo teams in general?16:44
mhall119well either I did a great job explaining the benefits of LTP, or everybody's gone to lunch16:46
mhall119you can always find the developers in #ubuntu-website, and the LoCo council and other LTP users in #ubuntu-locoteams16:47
mhall119well anyone who's not gone to lunch, you've got a few minutes now to grab some refreshments16:50
mhall119but be sure to stick around for Clint Byrum's Juju: DevOps Distilled16:50
mhall119there's a lot of excitement around Juju, so you won't want to miss it16:50
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.16:51
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.16:55
mhall119Oh, I almost forgot, LTP is fully translatable and already has been translated into many languages16:56
mhall119so it's accessible to not-English speakers as well16:56
mhall119if we're missing translations for your team's preferred languages, organize a translations jam and get them into Launchpad, we we'll make them part of the next release16:56
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Juju: DevOps Distille - Instructors: SpamapS
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/17/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.17:01
SpamapSGreetings earthlings17:01
SpamapSWelcome to all juju fans and interested parties.17:02
SpamapSI want to first thank everyone who helped us test and build Juju in time for the 11.10 release, especially the juju dev team and our charm contributors!17:02
SpamapSToday I'm going to do a summary of what juju is, how it relates to other tools and systems you may have heard of, and then give a brief demo that you can all follow on with.17:03
SpamapSIf you'd like to prepare a system for following along while I go through the summary, here are some instructions for setting up the local dev provider on an 11.10 machine: http://paste.ubuntu.com/711081/17:04
SpamapSYou'll also need this content in ~/.juju/environments.yaml  http://paste.ubuntu.com/711083/17:05
SpamapSOk, to the summary17:05
SpamapSWhat is Juju: juju is a system for encapsulating services in the cloud.17:06
SpamapSIts main purpose is to streamline operations and development by allowing users to deploy services and manage them in the cloud without having to learn the intracacies of each service.17:07
SpamapSWith juju, we think it will be possible to share all of your ops knowledge on how to manage a service with anybody else, and in turn, you will be able to benefit from all the other ops knowledge on services that you need to deploy.17:08
SpamapSThe reason we think the cloud makes this easier is that we now have a more generic system underneath the server OS, and so, we can easily add/remove services and systems without worrying about appropriating assets or leasing servers.17:09
SpamapSThat said, even bare metal systems with no virtualization or "cloud" can make use of Juju through its Ubuntu Orchestra provider.17:10
SpamapSThat is another reason juju is exciting, because we have abstracted away the notion of "how do I get a system up and running" into providers.17:10
SpamapSCurrently there are 3, EC2, Orchestra, and Local.17:10
SpamapSEC2 can talk to the public Amazon EC2 cloud, or private clouds from eucalyptus and openstack.17:11
SpamapSOrchestra speaks to a machine which has ubuntu-orchestra-provisioning-server installed using Orchestra's main backend tool, Cobbler. Cobbler can turn machines on and off if you tell it what type of power management to use.. and boot/install Ubuntu on them.17:12
SpamapS(using pxe boot and net install, btw)17:12
SpamapSThe third provider, the local provider, creates machines using LXC, which is a system for lightweight containers on Linux. These are like virtual machines, but they all share the same running kernel, so they are lighter weight than VMs.17:13
SpamapSThis is particularly useful for testing and developing charms.. which we'll get to in a moment.17:14
SpamapSBefore I continue, if anybody has questions, please just ask them in #ubuntu-classroom-chat and jcastro will either field them or forward them to me (the bot confuses me. ;)17:14
SpamapSSo, charms, what are charms?17:14
SpamapSCharms were formerly called formulas. Thats basically what they are, a formula for running a particular network service.17:15
SpamapSThey're a little bit like packages in the OS, they encapsulate only whats needed to run a particular network service, and how it interacts with other network services.17:15
SpamapSquestion: "is it possible to create a "local cloud" with xen? hope that this question is in context" .. Interesting question. One could absolutely create a provider that ran xen commands rather than lxc or ec2 or ochestra commands.17:17
SpamapSThe provider API is fairly stable, though still considered "internal" to juju, and so is subject to massive changes. However, its not that hard to envision how to model "start a machine, stop a machine, attach a block dev to a machine" in most of the virtualization systems out there.17:18
SpamapSAnyway, back to charms. Here is the metadata for the 'mediawiki' charm, which was one of the first charms I created for juju:17:19
SpamapSEach of the bits under 'requires' and 'provides' maps to a set of "hooks" which trigger when one of those relationships is established with another compatbiel service.17:20
SpamapSThere is the 'hooks' directory for the charm (full content available at lp:charm/mediawiki)17:20
SpamapSEach of these is an executable that will be run at the appropriate time, and which can access the two way channel of config data that is called a "relation"17:21
SpamapSBecause this is a loose coupling, charms become much easier to write, and far more encapsulated than what one sees in traditional configuration management like chef or puppet.17:21
SpamapSThat said, either of those systems would be fine choices for writing a single charm in, as they do a lot of what our simple little shell script hooks do.. apply the configuration based on available data.17:22
SpamapSThats one of the really important concepts for charms. They do not enforce a single language for configuring the system. If you are an expert in Cassandra, and want to share your expert cassandra skills with the world, but don't know puppet, thats ok. Write a charm in shell, share it in the charm collection, and now everbody has access to your knowledge on Cassandra.17:23
ClassBotnealmcb asked: Is there interest outside Ubuntu in Juju?  Does Orchestra run on RHEL etc?  Could it run on Windows?17:25
SpamapSGood question. Right now we're focusing on Ubuntu because it has all of the building blocks we need for juju to work. It also simplifies the charms quite a bit to not have to decide where to put config files or what package names are available.17:26
SpamapSHowever, there's nothing stopping RHEL or anybody else from adding cloud-init and working with juju.17:26
SpamapSOrchestra does deploy RHEL already. Cobbler is actually a Fedora sub-project and was originally only able to deploy RH based distros. We re-factored some old work that others did to make it deploy Debian and Ubuntu as well.17:27
SpamapSNow a bit on architecture of Juju, and then we'll play a little bit and see if we can get mediawiki deployed.17:28
SpamapSJuju consists of 3 basic parts. A cli tool (/usr/bin/juju), a central node we call the "bootstrap node", and agents which perform various tasks on deployed machines.17:29
SpamapSThe bootstrap node is so called because it is created first, as part of the process of "bootstrapping" your environment. There is an open task with high priority to provide high availability and failover for this node, and that should be completed soon.17:29
SpamapSIt runs two very important things, the main data store and coordination service used by juju, Zookeeper, and a python "provisioning agent" which handles creating and destroying machines.17:30
SpamapSZookeeper is an apache project that provides coordination services. Basically its like a filesystem with network based "inotify", clients can login and ask to be informed when anything changes. Also, clients can ask to be informed when other clients subscribe to nodes and are disconnected.17:32
SpamapSOnce you have zookeeper and the provisioning agent running, the cli basically just talks to zookeeper (tunneled through SSH) to change the zookeeper hierarchy to be the way it desires the system to be. Then the various agents see these changes and react to them.17:33
SpamapSSo when you say 'juju deploy --repository charms mediawiki' .. this uploads the mediawiki charm to the provider's file storage (S3 for EC2) and then changes zookeeper to say there should be a "mediawiki" service with that charm.17:34
SpamapSThe provisioning agent is subscribed to the list of services, and sees this, and sees that it has no machines. So it provisions a machine and assigns it to the service.17:34
SpamapSThe machine is fed data with cloud-init to start the "machine agent" when it boots up. This machine agent then sees that it has been assigned the 'mediawiki' service, and starts another agent, the 'unit agent' seeded for mediawiki.17:35
SpamapSThat agent then downloads the charms, and runs the install hooks17:35
SpamapSThis paradigm repeats, where we change zookeeper, then the agents react to it, throughout the lifecycle of a juju environment.17:36
SpamapSOne good thing about this is that juju operates in an event based manner, which should allow it to scale to really high numbers of nodes.17:37
SpamapSSo, if you did the instructions that I pasted at the beginning of the presentation, you should have everything you need to follow along with my little demo of deploying mediawiki.17:37
SpamapSin case you missed it17:38
SpamapSand the environments.yaml:17:38
SpamapSso first we should see an empty environment, with a single machine17:38
SpamapSubuntu@ip-10-84-94-93:~$ juju status17:40
SpamapSmachines: 0: {dns-name: localhost, instance-id: local}17:40
SpamapSservices: {}17:40
SpamapS$ juju deploy --repository charms local:mediawiki17:40
SpamapSThats the next part. The warnings are coming from the fact that we haven't finished fixing some of the charms in the repository for recent changes.17:40
SpamapSjuju status should now show a bit more17:41
SpamapSstate: started is important here. That means that the charm made it through its install and start hooks17:41
SpamapSnow we need a database though, as you'll probably see mediawiki is not available at that IP17:41
SpamapS$ juju deploy --repository charms local:mysql17:42
SpamapSWe will also make use of memacached for page caching and session storage:17:42
SpamapS$ juju deploy --repository charms local:memcached17:43
SpamapS$ juju deploy --repository charms local:mysql17:43
SpamapSNow, you'll notice there's only one machine, but 3 services17:43
SpamapSthat is because I am using the 'local' provider, which can handle this. Were I using the ec2 provider, it would be spinning up an individual machine for each service to run on17:44
SpamapSNow we need to relate mysql and memcached back to mediawiki17:44
SpamapS$ juju add-relation memcached mediawiki17:44
SpamapS$ juju add-relation mysql mediawiki17:45
SpamapSnow if you're following along, you'll have seen that there was actually a problem with that one17:45
SpamapS$ juju add-relation mysql mediawiki17:45
SpamapSThis is telling you that you need to be more explicit about the relationships17:45
SpamapS$ juju add-relation mysql:db mediawiki:db17:46
SpamapSThis is actually whats needed. db-admin gives the wiki root access and is for things like phpmyadmin, and the slave relation of mediawiki would only be for a slave mysql server17:46
SpamapSso now status should show us things running17:46
SpamapSIf you send your browser to http://ip.of.mediawiki/mediawiki/  it should actually show you a mediawiki17:47
SpamapSI went ahead and opened up an apache2 proxy from the EC2 instance where I've been running this demo, and here is the wiki: http://ec2-204-236-198-13.compute-1.amazonaws.com/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page17:49
SpamapSNow we can also use the config settings defined in the charm's 'config.yaml' to change things like the title17:49
SpamapSOops, hah, apparently those config.yaml changes are only in my private branch of the charm.17:50
ClassBotThere are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.17:50
SpamapSsome other charms have a 'config.yaml' which allows service-wide settings like titles, themes, or broad tuning parameters.17:51
SpamapSthey are changed with 'juju set servicename settingname=settingvalue'17:51
SpamapSwith just 10 minutes left, I think thats about it, questions?17:51
ClassBotnealmcb asked: How is change-control and authenticity handled when sharing charms?  They could of course do a lot of damage, and we've invested a lot in the security infrastructure for packages in ubuntu, but these aren't packages, right?17:51
SpamapSgreat question neal. Right now, you're on your own to verify the source of charms. bzr has the ability to sign commits, but juju isn't verifying that.17:52
SpamapSThere is a larger "smart store" project going on that will do just that.. verify that the charms are owned by members of trusted teams and cryptographically sign the list of charms, much like apt does.17:53
SpamapSIf you've tried 'juju deploy foo' without qualification lately, you'll see an error about 'store.juju.ubuntu.com' that refers to what will be the default juju charm store.17:53
ClassBotThere are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.17:55
SpamapSWell thats just about all the time I have. Please everyone if you have further questions, #juju in Freenode, https://juju.ubuntu.com, and https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/juju17:55
SpamapSthanks all!17:56
ClassBotjanimo asked: Can juju be used on non-cloud setups, say an existing Linode VPS install?17:56
SpamapSjanimo, I ran the demo today on an EC2 instance. The local provider could definitely be used for single server setups for testing purposes, and thats why it exists...17:57
SpamapSHowever the local provider hides all running services behind the 'virbr0' so you'll need to do something like I did and proxy the bits that you want to expose to external network traffic.17:57
ClassBotbeatpanic asked: simple question. can we use juju in production or we have to wait a little bit? thanks!17:58
SpamapSIts considered a "tech preview" in 11.10, and the version in the PPA is also still in that state. There's a list of bugs tagged "production" that need to be considered before using it in production. https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bugs?field.tag=production17:59
ClassBotnealmcb asked: If you haven't already, note for the record that this was called "ensemble" until a month or so ago :)17:59
SpamapSThanks neal, yes it was called Ensemble until just over a month ago17:59
SpamapSthanks thats all my time!17:59
ClassBotnealmcb asked: How usable will it be in the pps on 10.10, 11.04, etc?18:00
SpamapSOk one more.. the answer is .. "try it!" ;)18:00
ClassBotLogs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/17/%23ubuntu-classroom.html18:00
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: http://is.gd/8rtIi || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat ||
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jcastrothanks everyone18:06
jcastroSee you all tomorrow at 1400UTC!18:06
rick_h_yes, think it starts again 1400UTC19:06
clem11388Hey everybody, I just seen a post on OMG!ubuntu about the open week. And wanted to see if I could follow along19:29
elopioclem11388, just get back tomorrow  at 1400UTC19:30
clem11388Okay thank you :-)19:32
beatpanicclem11388, if you want to have an idea of how is it happening take a look at this though http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/17/%23ubuntu-classroom.html#t17:01 -- this is the last class19:32
clem11388Cool I'll take a look :-) I seen that OMG!Ubuntu mention about how to make your first Ubuntu app. And thats what really caught my eye19:34
akgranerIf you missed today's sessions you can click on the sessions and see the logs  - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Timetable19:35
clem11388thank you akgraner19:38
clem11388well I'll come one back tomorrow at 1400UTC / 10:00EST , is it ok to just close out the IRC client? or do I need to do a inline command?....yes I don't use IRC very much lol19:46
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nebajoththat ubuntu paste with the first few steps of the juju tutorial is flawed22:47
nebajothit gives "apt-add-repository" rather than "add-apt-repository", for one22:48
nebajothfor two, apparently apt-add-repository is no longer included in oneiric by default22:48
nebajothone must install python-software-properties to obtain it22:48

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