[07:05] <smittix> Morning all
[07:39] <daubers> Morning
[07:40] <AlanBell> morning
[07:40] <daubers> Back in the office after a few weeks away. Back to a list of support/feature requests
[07:45]  * daubers does a test upgrade of his work machine
[07:47] <freakyclown> ok ubuntu fans... ive managed to solve most of the horrific number of errors from the 11.10 upgrade on my own but this one im stuck on
[07:47] <freakyclown> when ever i add a new package, i get an error from dpkg:
[07:47] <freakyclown> dpkg: error processing snort (--configure):
[07:47] <freakyclown>  subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 10
[07:47] <freakyclown> Errors were encountered while processing:
[07:47] <freakyclown>  snort
[07:49] <shauno> are there any clues in earlier output?  (usually you'll see the actual problem as the package tries to install, and then that summary when apt is done)
[07:49] <freakyclown> nope
[07:49] <freakyclown> and its for ANY app that i install
[07:49] <freakyclown> snort was already there when i did the upgrade and weirdly...it still works fine
[08:09] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:12] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:18] <bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
[08:22] <daubers> freakyclown: You could try reconfiguring snort
[08:22] <daubers> dpkg-reconfigure I think?
[08:23] <freakyclown> tried it failed
[08:23] <freakyclown> so atm ive removed snort
[08:23] <smittix> remove snort and reinstall?
[08:23] <smittix> heh
[08:23] <freakyclown> tried that too it failed also
[08:23] <freakyclown> its not a problem until i go on client site
[08:33] <oimon> saw a grown-up man reading viz on the train today :-\
[08:33] <gord> that still exists?
[08:33] <diplo> My ex father in law still buys it @ 64 oimon
[08:33] <MooDoo> viz rocks :D
[08:33] <diplo> Gets the annual every year as well
[08:33] <oimon> wow
[08:33] <diplo> I know :)
[08:33] <DJones> oimon: Isn't that still a "top shelf" comic anyway, so you have to  be "grown up" to buy it :)
[08:33] <oimon> i didn't think anyone over 18 bought it
[08:34] <diplo> I've not read it since i was like 14 maybe
[08:35] <oimon> diplo: exactly
[08:35] <JamesTait> Happy Monday, everyone! :)
[08:35] <oimon> i think it actually retards one's brain development
[08:35] <diplo> Well there is my ex father in law then :)
[08:36] <AlanBell> freakyclown: for what its worth I just installed snort with no errors
[08:36] <freakyclown> curious
[08:37] <daubers> freakyclown: Did you remove and purge? or just remove
[08:37] <freakyclown> mm mdidnt purge.....ill trythat in a minute
[08:41] <freakyclown> rar purge seems to have fixed it
[08:41] <freakyclown> not sure what had broken in the upgrade though
[08:52] <oimon> how do i close all windows and show desktop in 11.10?
[08:53] <bigcalm> alt tab
[08:53] <bigcalm> 1st option
[08:56] <oimon> bigcalm: i'm in unity2d
[08:57] <bigcalm> No idea then :)
[08:58] <oimon> i keep giving unity a chance, but it keeps letting me down :(
[09:00] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:00] <MooDoo> oimon: can you try <SUPER> + D
[09:00] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski
[09:01] <MooDoo> oimon: or ctrl alt D
[09:01] <oimon> MooDoo: fail :(
[09:01] <oimon> ctrl-alt-D yay ! :D
[09:01] <oimon> thanks
[09:01] <MooDoo> if you do it again, i think it puts them back
[09:10] <oimon> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/show-desktop-icon-for-ubuntu-unity.html
[09:10] <oimon> woo :D
[09:11] <FND> how can I deactivate the new (Oneiric) window switcher? the grouping is driving me insane
[09:13] <MartijnVdS> FND: it's a feature, I heaerd
[09:15] <FND> MartijnVdS: yes, but it's not optional AFAICT...
[09:15] <oimon> maybe ccsm has some options? unity2d has the old alt-tab
[09:16] <FND> I didn't find anything in ccsm
[09:16] <FND> I might go for unity2d then
[09:16] <gord> its the same in unity2d
[09:16] <gord> oh for alt-tab only?
[09:16] <gord> nevermind me
[09:16] <gord> though you can just turn on the old alt-tab in unity3d
[09:16] <gord> its in ccsm
[09:16] <FND> how so?
[09:17] <gord> turn on the plugin called static window switcher or something like that, then just enable its keybindings over-riding the unity ones
[09:21] <s-fox> Hello.
[09:23] <FND> gord: I just did that, resolving the key conflicts in favor of Static Application Switcher - all it did was crash/restart Compiz on first use... guess I'll have to restart
[09:29] <FND> gord: the static app switcher looks very similar to Unity's, and also does grouping?
[09:29]  * FND feels like he's missing something
[09:29] <gord> FND, disable the keybindings in the unity plugin, ccsm is being crap
[09:30] <FND> gord: yeah, just realized that - weird, since the conflict resolution had me disable them already
[09:32] <FND> it works fine now, thanks
[09:36] <FND> while I'm working through the Unity kinks, anyone use Tilda?
[09:36] <FND> my Tilda keeps shifting to the right (by the width of the dock), so it's not flush against the left of the screen
[09:37] <FND> i.e. it always seems to think the dock is expanded
[09:43] <bigcalm> Has there been any report of wired connections failing in 11.10? I took my laptop to my parents at the weekend. It connected to their Sky wifi but failed to make use of their Ethernet over Power
[09:45] <DJones> I set one machine up at the weekend with a wired connection and didn't have any problems with it, thats about all I can add
[09:48] <diplo> We've had issues with wired this moring with my colleague, ended up with a reboot for a fix
[09:48] <czajkowski> bigcalm: checked here its fine
[09:50] <oimon> bigcalm: what was wrong? couldn't see link? couldn't get DHCP address?
[09:51] <oimon> i've just run apt-get install lubuntu-desktop kubuntu-desktop xubuntu-desktop ...the results could be quite hideous
[09:54] <bigcalm> Dunno, I wasn't in the mood to debug it that much. Would just spin for ever trying to connect but not get any where. The same cable would work fine on both of my parents' laptops. I'll get around to trying a wired connection here at some point :)
[10:12] <oimon> apparently forwarding a tweet can cure cancer
[10:13] <MooDoo> lol yay spam tweets
[10:14] <davmor2> morning all
[10:14] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[10:14] <daubers_> Morning
[10:15] <oimon> MooDoo: "RT @OfficialCANCER: Unfortunately, 97% of twitter users will not RT this for cancer. But the 3% who do are the ones willing to #makeachange"
[10:15] <daubers_> Hmm... confused
[10:15] <davmor2> MooDoo: Spam Sweets man you really hate the treat or treaters don't you?
[10:15] <daubers> Joys of having 2 computers on your desk
[10:17] <MooDoo> oimon: i hate that kind of tweet
[10:17] <davmor2> trick or treaters even
[10:19] <MooDoo> Trick or treat,
[10:19] <MooDoo> smell my feet,
[10:19] <MooDoo> give me something good to eat!
[10:19]  * daubers gives MooDoo some bacon
[10:20] <daubers> While you're cooking it, make me a sandwich too :)
[10:22] <MooDoo> daubers: you da man!! :)
[10:22] <s-fox> MooDoo !!!
[10:22]  * GirlyGirl pours some coffee on MooDoo
[10:23] <MooDoo> s-fox: heloooooooooooooooo
[10:23] <MooDoo> GirlyGirl: on??? noooooooooo that hurts
[10:23] <GirlyGirl> MooDoo: Don't worry its cold coffee
[10:23] <MooDoo> GirlyGirl: i love cold coffee :) so that's ok then
[10:26]  * BigRedS discovered iced espresso this summer
[10:26] <BigRedS> it's awesome
[10:27] <popey> i had an iced coffee in costa last friday. it was disgusting
[10:27] <popey> the cafe nero ones are yum
[10:28] <MooDoo> i'm actually on about normal nescafe that's been left on the side :)
[10:32] <oimon> wow - anyone tried xubuntu 11.10?
[10:33] <oimon> no longer ugly. they've also deliberately made it look a bit like gnome shell, but works like gnome2
[10:40]  * daubers puts on some UUPC and beats some sense into some code
[10:45] <chambo> popey, Cafe Nero put an extra espresso in which might explain it
[10:46] <Hippychick> the only thing i find coffee shops good for is hot chocolate :P
[10:47] <Hippychick> and they just happened to open a costa 2 doors down from where i work \o/
[10:47] <bigcalm> Cafe Nero's chocolate cake is the yum
[10:48] <gord> i would live in starbucks if i could
[10:48] <chambo> I just have an espresso machine at home so I never need to venture out of the house
[10:48] <daubers> I found a really nommy coffee shop in Reading
[10:49] <daubers> Make very nice white chocolate cakey things
[10:49] <Hippychick> gord, you might be able to get a flat above a starbucks?
[10:49] <popey> the costa one was too strong for me
[10:56] <daubers> *sigh*
[10:56] <daubers> "Can you explain what's wrong with this switch?" - "It doesn't work"
[10:59] <MartijnVdS> daubers: fair assessment
[10:59] <bigcalm> Magic
[11:01] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Define "work" and define "doesn't" :)
[11:14] <MooDoo> daubers: have you tried turning it off and on again?
[11:14] <MooDoo> .me ducks
[11:15] <daubers> MooDoo: I asked them that :)
[11:15] <MooDoo> :D
[11:20] <nigelb> MooDoo: lol
[11:20] <nigelb> It always does the trick ;)
[11:20] <bigcalm> LUNCH!
[11:22] <diplo> Any of you guys use svn for web dev ?
[11:22] <daubers> bigcalm: Bacon sarnie please :)
[11:23] <bigcalm> diplo: I do
[11:23] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Martin Meredith] Adventures with the Galaxy SII - http://www.sourceguru.net/adventures-galaxy-sii/
[11:23] <davmor2> Mez: Phone cover D'oh
[11:24] <nigelb> diplo: yep
[11:24] <diplo> bigcalm, we have like 80-90 sites, we have a core backend and customer specific front end... what do you do to make sure your websites are upto date ?
[11:24] <diplo> only 5-6 sites on this new backend
[11:24] <nigelb> woah. We deploy to only server.
[11:24] <diplo> I'm basically thinking of a way to get svn info out from each web host
[11:24] <diplo> to make sure customer has most up to date
[11:24] <diplo> with out manually checking
[11:25] <diplo> Wondering if anyone has come across anything like it ?
[11:26] <nigelb> Youdicomfortable with fabric?
[11:26] <nigelb> err
[11:26] <nigelb> Are you comfrotable with python?
[11:26] <nigelb> If you are, you should look at fabric
[11:27] <diplo> I'm teaching myself python atm
[11:27] <diplo> Will take a look now ta
[11:35] <davmor2> in thunderbird is there a way to save all your settings like you can on Evolution?
[11:44] <MooDoo> ping Laney
[11:45] <Laney> hello MooDoo
[11:46] <MooDoo> Laney: how was the beer festival?
[11:46] <Laney> busy and beery
[11:46] <Laney> milk stout was probably my fave
[11:46] <MooDoo> yum.....
[11:47] <gord> davmor2, i think ~/.thunderbird/<something>.default/prefs.js
[11:49] <davmor2> gord: Man that sucks, this is meant to be the better of the 2 mail clients,  you lose calendaring, if you install lightning you have to jump through hoops to add a google calendar, and there is noway to export settings man I'm still falling out of love with Thunderbird :(
[11:49] <oimon> lightning sucks on my pc ..still use it, but it sucks :(
[11:49] <gord> davmor2, um... it answer email good. gord happy.
[11:49] <gord> i never used evo for more than that, it was terrible at everything
[11:50] <daubers> davmor2: Hoops for google calendars?
[11:50] <gord> fyi, if you haven't install the conversation addon for thunderbird, it makes it a nice gmail like experience
[11:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: What hoops do you mean?
[11:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> Just use the CalDAV API from Google.
[11:50]  * daubers just used caldav
[11:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> You don't need to add any other extensions.
[11:54] <davmor2> daubers, TheOpenSourcerer: in evo you add a new calendar, you select google, you add your login details and select the calendar you want, on thunderbird you add the new calendar, you select google, no login you then have to open up google calendar in browser track through all the setting till you find the right url and then add that url to lightning, and you only get the named calendar so you may have to go through
[11:54] <davmor2>  the process several times
[11:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> That sounds right - It would be nice if you could get it to pull the available calendars down based on login credentials.
[11:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> Let Phillipp know you'd like it ;-) (Or write it and submit a patch).
[11:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> Chris Coulson would probably be interested to hear too.
[11:57] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: I've got to the point where I can write a basic script in python I don't think I'm ready to patch Thunderbird :)
[11:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ah I should have said chrisccoulson
[11:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Lightning is a bit more complex that many TB/Mozilla extensions as it has some C code so it needs to be compiled for each TB release. Most are all just Javascript.
[11:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: There is also an IRC channel specially for you :-) #ubuntu-mozillateam
[12:01] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: I just think it is a really sucky way to introduce new users to email/calendaring which is a shame as TB has some really nice features.   I wil go on there an have a rant though thanks :)
[12:06] <awilkins> The other thing I want for TB is an Outlook Web Access plugin that works (along with the "gateway" thing that a lot of OWA servers have in front of them now to stop them getting pwned so easily
[12:06] <awilkins> Then I could use TB for my work email again
[12:06] <awilkins> I'd have a hope in hell of being able to find old mails
[12:06] <gord> i think new users use gmail and google calendar
[12:06] <gord> thunderbird is for my work stuff
[12:07] <awilkins> I'm using TB for my gmail ATM
[12:07] <awilkins> Experimentally, really
[12:07] <gord> i am on my laptop but not my desktop, i can't quite qualify why really
[12:07] <Mez> davmor2: ??
[12:07] <gord> but i feel no inclination to add it to my desktop
[12:26] <daubers> Ooooh... I'd forgotten pubbage on Thursday
[12:33] <davmor2> Mez: Just read you're planet post and it tickled me :)
[12:33] <davmor2> Mez: did you decide what you were going to do about it?
[12:51] <daubers> popey: You realise the apathy thing is a more widespread problem? (i.e. not just limited to Ubuntu/OS Projects)
[12:51] <popey> You listening to UUPC perchance?
[12:52] <daubers> popey: Indeed
[12:53] <daubers> I hit the same problems when I tried to restart the physics society at Uni
[12:54] <daubers> Seems to take an awful lot to keep people interested
[12:55] <daubers> We also had a similar issue within this group not too long ago (beggining of last year?)
[12:56] <czajkowski> daubers: groups go through phases I think when I took over running my comp soc, it had been run by blokes for years so was always admin focused and not really interacting so I changed that
[12:58] <gord> personally i blame windows 7, it wasn't terrible
[12:58]  * Laney listens
[12:59] <daubers> We're also going to be fighting a generation of people who where introduced to computers as appliances to facebook/email on and little else
[13:00] <gordonjcp> czajkowski: this is sort of the problem we're finding with the amateur radio club I'm a member of
[13:00] <gordonjcp> czajkowski: oh, admin as in sysadmin?
[13:00] <gordonjcp> d'oh
[13:01] <gordonjcp> czajkowski: I meant more that we have a couple of committee members that appear to be more interested in having a Bureaucracy Club rather than an Amateur Radio Club
[13:01] <czajkowski> gordonjcp: aye sys admin, we had folks who wanted to build servers and do stuff like that
[13:01] <czajkowski> but nobody leaving the server room
[13:02] <czajkowski> so I started a monthly talk
[13:02] <czajkowski> inviting a past graduate who was a member of the society and then someone from a company
[13:02] <czajkowski> meet greet give a talk na dhave a few pints
[13:02] <czajkowski> kicked things going again
[13:03] <czajkowski> we had to have some sort of bureaucracy due to getting a budget and we edned up getting one for 15K
[13:03] <gordonjcp> czajkowski: yeah
[13:03] <czajkowski> so sent students to MIT for a week
[13:03] <czajkowski> FOSDEM
[13:03] <gordonjcp> nice
[13:03] <czajkowski> different events that they wouldnt get to go to
[13:05] <daubers> czajkowski: This was the purpose of the "Happy Hours" (as originally invisiged I think)
[13:05] <daubers> Get more people with more face to face time
[13:05] <Laney> popey: did you try vimtutor?
[13:05] <czajkowski> daubers: aye and tis working
[13:05] <popey> Laney: not yet
[13:05] <daubers> Hopefully I'll be able to make the one on Thursday
[13:06] <daubers> Might need to bribe the missus
[13:06] <Laney> the missus used it to learn the basics
[13:06] <Laney> seemed to like it
[13:07] <daubers> People are a hard problem to solve
[13:09] <Laney> my nasty secret is eatmydata aptitude full-upgrade
[13:11] <popey> :D
[13:20] <czajkowski> The thing is , you're never ever gonna get eveyrone along to one event, people don't like x y z the best you can hope for is that at least 2-3 people turn up enjoy it and tell others so they'll come to another one. Varying types of meet ups helps so you can get people who wont go to one event but will to another to come along
[13:22] <czajkowski> the reason I don't go to the lug events near me is I find them boring, the age group really isn't mine they meet up and have talks about things I'm not interested, where as I'll go to a hapy hour, have some nosh, drink and a chat
[13:22] <czajkowski> everyone is different
[13:22] <daubers> Might sit down tonight and transcribe that podcast conversation
[13:23] <daubers> Since it's kind of important really
[13:23] <ali1234> personally, i don't like eating and talking at the same time
[13:24] <oimon> +1
[13:24] <ali1234> nor do i enjoy eating with strangers
[13:24] <oimon> +2
[13:25]  * oimon waits to see if ali1234 will say 3 things in a row he agrees with :)
[13:25] <czajkowski> meh I'll talk to a wall
[13:25] <czajkowski> I dont care who I talk to
[13:25] <popey> I suspect its not the talking
[13:25] <popey> its the eating
[13:25] <czajkowski> makes it more interesting if different people turn up each time
[13:26] <daubers> I find I keep meeting the same people more or less
[13:26] <daubers> Need to go to more events
[13:26] <gord> people like to complain to me about ubuntu/unity when i turn up to things, which makes things much less fun ;)
[13:26] <czajkowski> gord awwwwww *hugs*
[13:27] <oimon> gord: go in disguise
[13:27] <czajkowski> gord: pretend you work on server everyone loves the server :p
[13:27] <daubers> gord: Next time, take your cat and set it to stun?
[13:27] <davmor2> gord: but that's what your there for though right?
[13:28] <czajkowski> I am not going to events where there are cats.
[13:28] <czajkowski> gord no cats!
[13:28] <daubers> czajkowski: Does that mean I can't take my wife anywhere you go?
[13:28] <davmor2> gord: bring cats :D
[13:29] <czajkowski> daubers: does she bring cats with her.........
[13:29] <gord> have you ever tried to bring a cat anywhere? it rarely goes well
[13:29] <czajkowski> leave the pets at home
[13:29] <davmor2> daubers: no it means you and your wife go but czajkowski doesn't :)
[13:29] <popey> gord: borrow marks vader mask
[13:29] <daubers> czajkowski: No... her name is Kat :)
[13:29] <czajkowski> daubers: :0
[13:29] <czajkowski> :)
[13:29] <gord> when i moved in to this place it was only down the road from my old place, so i decided to carry my cat. everything was going great until a car went past... scarred for life
[13:30] <popey> what about the cat?
[13:30] <hamitron> :D
[13:30] <oimon> [2945636.480018] usb 5-1: device not accepting address 48, error -71 [2945636.480039] hub 5-0:1.0: unable to enumerate USB device on port 1
[13:30] <oimon> :( how can i get my phone to mount, without restart/logout
[13:31] <ali1234> use a different USB port
[13:32] <oimon> :D
[13:32] <hamitron> I remember a time in computing where there were less problems like that....
[13:33] <hamitron> or am I just looking overly fondly of the past?
[13:33] <ali1234> USB used to work quite well
[13:33] <gord> oh yeah no one ever had problems with serial devices
[13:33] <gord> floppy drives worked *perfectly* too
[13:33] <ali1234> now the ports die all the time
[13:33] <hamitron> well, I was thinking USB
[13:33] <ali1234> half the ports on my motherboard don't work
[13:33] <hamitron> serial was hassle ofc
[13:33] <hamitron> :)
[13:33] <oimon> floppy disks didn't though
[13:33] <ali1234> and if i plug two devices into a hub on one port, the whole port stops working
[13:34] <oimon> especially when you put them in your school bag alongside the monster munch
[13:34] <hamitron> ali1234, so it isn't just me?
[13:34] <ali1234> no, it isn't just you
[13:34] <ali1234> the developers even know about these bugs
[13:34] <ali1234> but for some reason they aren't getting fixed
[13:35] <ali1234> i believe it is related to the IRQ problems with sound as well
[13:35] <hamitron> all about the fancy interfaces, and nothing about getting things to work
[13:35] <hamitron> :/
[13:35] <ali1234> it's not just about the fancy interfaces
[13:36] <ali1234> it's about commercialization of linux
[13:36] <hamitron> probably
[13:36] <ali1234> the USB host drivers are developed almost exclusively by intel now
[13:36] <oimon> if they were commercialising linux, why would they introduce a UI that divides the userbase ?
[13:37] <ali1234> no doubt it works flawlessly if you have an intel machine
[13:37] <hamitron> but if someone tries a linux distro/device, and they get these problems..... it will tarnish their opinion of linux for a long time
[13:37] <oimon> my machine's been up for 30-odd days but that should be ok
[13:37] <ali1234> yes, well, the companies that develop linux these days are not interested in after market installs
[13:37] <ali1234> as long as it works on the hardware they are trying to shift, that is all that matters
[13:38] <oimon> my chromium browser has been running for around the same time with > 30 tabs, performing very well compared to firefox
[13:38] <ali1234> said hardware isn't sold with a "linux" logo, except maybe on page 356 of the user manual
[13:38] <ali1234> so it doesn't matter
[13:38] <hamitron> if they even provide a manual
[13:38] <hamitron> ;)
[13:45] <daubers> Meh, I get USB problems on my mac all the time
[13:45] <ali1234> yeah
[13:45] <ali1234> that's exactly what i'm talking about
[13:45] <ali1234> ever since the commercialization, linux is now no more reliable than windows or mac
[13:46] <hamitron> :/
[13:46] <hamitron> sorry to say, but windows is ahead atm
[13:46] <hamitron> ;)
[13:46] <ali1234> windows is in the toilet like it has always been
[13:46] <daubers> HAH! I have at least 3 USB peripherals that don't work on Windows :)
[13:46] <hamitron> yeh
[13:46] <hamitron> daubers, nice
[13:46] <ali1234> i'm not talking abut things that don't work
[13:46] <hamitron> :)
[13:47] <ali1234> i'm talking about host drivers
[13:47] <ali1234> when you plug in a device and the port shuts down
[13:47] <ali1234> then it works if you plug into a different port
[13:47] <hamitron> is it something to do with power saving, or what? lack of power?
[13:47] <ali1234> it's just about broken drivers
[13:48] <hamitron> but they used to work
[13:48] <hamitron> :/
[13:48] <ali1234> yes, they did
[13:48] <hamitron> so something has screwed them up?
[13:48] <ali1234> they used to work on old hardware when the drivers were written by different people
[13:48] <ali1234> USB 2 has never worked properly on linux since it was invented
[13:49] <ali1234> the only way to make USB 2 device work reliably under linux is to plug it into a USB 1 port, or put a USB 1 hub between the device and the host
[13:49] <hamitron> interesting
[13:49] <hamitron> and I was sulking my laptop only has USB 1
[13:49] <hamitron> ;)
[13:50] <gordonjcp> ali1234: o_O
[13:50] <hamitron> tbh, I blame how everything is rushed to market
[13:50] <gordonjcp> what's wrong with USB2?
[13:50] <AlanBell> USB just works for me
[13:50] <ali1234> it... doesn't work?
[13:50] <hamitron> everyone has such tight release schedules
[13:50] <gordonjcp> ali1234: example?
[13:51] <mgdm> I've never had any bother with USB of any form on Linux. Windows, however...
[13:51] <ali1234> plug in USB 2 device and you have a 50% chance of getting "device not accepting address"
[13:51] <gordonjcp> I have a Microsoft USB mouse that has never worked in Windows
[13:51] <ali1234> plug it into a USB 1 port and it works fine
[13:51] <gordonjcp> ali1234: example, not anecdote
[13:51] <ali1234> what do you mean example?
[13:51] <AlanBell> I have never seen that error
[13:51] <gordonjcp> well, give me a specific device and controller to try it with
[13:51] <mgdm> I have, but it was a dying flash drive
[13:51] <hamitron> you guys have never needed to reboot for usb?
[13:51] <gordonjcp> mgdm: same, but dying USB-ATA bridge
[13:52] <hamitron> :|
[13:52] <gordonjcp> hamitron: only with *insane* USB devices
[13:52] <ali1234> 00:12.2 USB Controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 USB EHCI Controller
[13:52] <mgdm> hamitron: nope, never
[13:52] <ali1234> Bus 001 Device 003: ID 059b:0370 Iomega Corp.
[13:52] <gordonjcp> old (firmware 1.05 or earlier) Mototrbo radios used to really make USB toss its cookies
[13:52] <bigcalm> Oo, a zip drive? (I haven't been reading up)
[13:52] <gordonjcp> ali1234: USB zip dis?
[13:53] <popey> click
[13:53] <ali1234> no, it isn't a ZIP drive
[13:53] <popey> click click click
[13:53] <ali1234> it's a hard drive
[13:53] <gordonjcp> ali1234: it may be buggy, or failing
[13:53] <ali1234> it's not buggy or failing
[13:53] <ali1234> the problem is the motherboard is buggy
[13:53] <gordonjcp> well that's different, then
[13:54] <hamitron> it is still buggy :/
[13:54] <hamitron> bugs are bugs to an end user
[13:54] <ali1234> and by buggy, i mean it requires workarounds
[13:54] <ali1234> and it's not really the motherboard, it's the chipset
[13:54] <ali1234> and it doesn't affect all ports
[13:54] <ali1234> some are worse than others
[13:54] <gordonjcp> so, don't buy shit hardware then

[13:55] <hamitron> haha
[13:55] <ali1234> right right, only buy intel hardware, yeah?
[13:55] <gordonjcp> ali1234: car analogy
[13:55] <gordonjcp> I once had a Fiat Regatta
[13:55] <gordonjcp> you could visibly watch it dissolve in the rain
[13:55] <gordonjcp> it got through ignition modules like popey gets through trampolines
[13:55] <gordonjcp> it was, basically, a shit car
[13:56] <gordonjcp> shit design, shit construction
[13:56] <hamitron> popey breaks trampolines?
[13:56] <gordonjcp> I scrapped it and got a Volvo instead
[13:56] <hamitron> :|
[13:56] <oimon> don't buy intel video cards though
[13:57] <gordonjcp> unless you're stuck with onboard ones
[13:57] <hamitron> they do cards?
[13:57] <hamitron> :|
[13:57] <oimon> the last few years have been torrid for the onboard intel user
[13:57] <hamitron> I was hoping to use the on cpu video on my i3 soon :/
[13:58] <gordonjcp> oimon: it works okay on my laptop, on my desktop I get really weird graphics corruption
[13:58] <ali1234> i had exactly the same problem on my old computer too
[13:58] <oimon> gordonjcp: which gfx on the desktop?
[13:58] <ali1234> with a different set of devices
[13:59] <ali1234> and same on the work machine
[13:59] <hamitron> but all this boils down to the same thing really
[13:59] <oimon> 820881
[13:59] <hamitron> it is broken
[13:59] <hamitron> :/
[13:59] <oimon> bug 820881
[14:00] <hamitron> this happens on CRT?
[14:00] <hamitron> ;)
[14:00] <oimon> heavy screen lol
[14:00] <ali1234> btw, my motherboard gets consistently high reviews just about everywhere
[14:01] <oimon> not sure if i've ever seen a bug fixed that i watched in launchpad
[14:01] <hamitron> reviews from who?
[14:01] <gordonjcp> oimon: i945 iirc
[14:01] <hamitron> oimon, haha
[14:01] <gordonjcp> oimon: I can't remember offhand but I do need to dig into it and file a bug
[14:01] <oimon> gordonjcp: you might find it's that bug i linked to
[14:02] <oimon> please vote if it does :)
[14:03] <ali1234> hamitron: from everyone. who do you trust to review motherboards?
[14:03] <gordonjcp> oimon: that's it exactly
[14:03] <hamitron> I only trust myself tbh
[14:03] <hamitron> :/
[14:03] <gordonjcp> oimon: fwiw it's *not* Ubuntu specific, it's just as bad in Arch
[14:03] <gordonjcp> oimon: so using up-to-date X doesn't help
[14:03] <oimon> please upvote it all the same :)
[14:04] <oimon> yeah, i'm on 11.10
[14:04] <hamitron> ali1234, but I was wondering if maybe the reviews were biased for some reason
[14:04] <oimon> haven't seen it in XFCE so far
[14:04] <ali1234> only if you count "we didn't test it with linux" as biased
[14:04] <oimon> which i believe i will be using in future
[14:04] <hamitron> also, so many people don't consider bugs not normal now
[14:04] <hamitron> :/
[14:04] <ali1234> also i have the same problem on both my netbooks
[14:05] <gordonjcp> oimon: will do, when I get home and can pull off sufficient data about the machine
[14:05] <hamitron> ali1234, you netbooks will be intel chipsets?
[14:05] <ali1234> yes
[14:06] <gordonjcp> ali1234: are you getting that kind of horizontal zigzag corruption thing?
[14:06] <ali1234> no
[14:06] <ali1234> graphics works fine
[14:06] <ali1234> i'm still talking about USB
[14:06] <gordonjcp> oh, okay
[14:06] <ali1234> i don't use the netbooks much though
[14:06] <ali1234> not for 12 hours
[14:06] <ali1234> i only use them to test ubuntu+1 really
[14:07] <oimon> http://boingboing.net/2011/10/17/rome-burns.html :(
[14:07] <MartijnVdS> oimon: disco inferno?
[14:10] <gordonjcp> I didn't know that ACAB translated directly into Italian
[14:13] <oimon> had to google what it meant in english
[14:14] <MartijnVdS> oimon: All cabbages are beautiful
[14:16] <daubers> popey: fwiw, I think the solution to the apathy problem lies in Hackspaces
[14:17] <popey> hmm
[14:17] <popey> perhaps ☺
[14:17] <oimon> maybe there should be a wider online debate about the question
[14:17] <daubers> Get hackspaces to run "Codespace" type events, get people excited again
[14:17] <ali1234> what exactly is the question?
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> popey: WHOA that's a big smiley
[14:18] <popey> yeah
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> Or is that just the Ubuntu-monospace font?
[14:18] <hamitron> pretty small on my screen
[14:19] <hamitron> :/
[14:21] <oimon> ali1234: regarding the discussion on the latest uupc about the ubuntu community
[14:30] <oimon> during the course of creating a usb installer with startup disk creator, you have to authenticate about a gazillion times :(
[14:37] <ali1234> found it
[14:37] <ali1234> popey: di you remember what i said 6 months ago? ;)
[14:37] <popey> no
[14:38] <gordonjcp> oimon: also if you use unetbootin the bootsplash gets all screwed up and uglified
[14:39] <oimon> gordonjcp: hmm never noticed
[14:40] <popey> ali1234: dont keep me in suspense!
[14:40] <oimon> bwahahah
[14:40]  * popey is guessing it was a prediction of some kind
[14:41] <oimon> why does it say "this computer already exists on the network" every time i do a fresh install of *ubuntu?
[14:42] <popey> because it has a default hostname
[14:42] <ali1234> popey: it was a prediction
[14:42] <popey> ?
[14:42] <gordonjcp> oimon: you know how the grub screen is a fairly grim looking textmode screen, and when you select anything it sits there doing nothing for about 20 seconds with no indication that anything is actually happening
[14:42] <popey> Also there is a bug in the avahi bit of the installer
[14:42] <ali1234> essentially, that ubuntu is driving away controbutors in favour of "users"
[14:42] <gordonjcp> I don't really know why there isn't a USB install image
[14:43] <gordonjcp> does anyone actually burn ISOs to CD and install from that?
[14:43] <gordonjcp> and if so, how?
[14:43] <popey> i guess less people do these days
[14:43] <popey> oimon: evan would like a bug report about that I'm sure
[14:43] <ali1234> (10:41:57) ali1234: popey: unity might gain ubuntu 10 users for every person that leaves
[14:43] <ali1234> (10:42:30) ali1234: popey: however that won't do you any good if none of the new people know how to write code
[14:44] <oimon> popey: which bug? the hostname one?
[14:44] <gordonjcp> I don't think I've had a PC with an optical drive for five years or so
[14:44] <popey> oimon: yes
[14:44] <oimon> sure.
[14:44] <ali1234> same thing i've been saying all year really
[14:44] <oimon> i wonder what process it is using to determine that fact
[14:44] <ali1234> you are driving away contributors in the quest for popularity
[14:44] <diplo> Really gordonjcp , you mean laptop ? Not a PC ?
[14:44] <gordonjcp> diplo: laptop and desktop
[14:45] <diplo> Well I work with 100's and only lappys that don't come with them really are netbooks
[14:45] <gordonjcp> diplo: to be fair my desktop *does* have a CD drive, but it is about five years old and the drive doesn't work
[14:45] <diplo> I've not none PC's not to come with even a basic drive unless specified by me
[14:45] <popey> i have 3 computers with optical drives
[14:45] <popey> none with floppies
[14:45] <gordonjcp> what would you even use it for, anyway?
[14:45] <diplo> All DELL machines about 4 or so years ago stopped coming with floppies unless requestexx
[14:46] <gordonjcp> I *do* have floppies, but that's because I actually *use* floppies on a daily basis
[14:46] <diplo> I use opticals daily for stuff
[14:46] <diplo> Mainly becuase i probably have a few hundred blank dvds/cds that i don't use for anything but testing now
[14:46] <gordonjcp> because there's so much old crap out there that needs looked after that only uses floppies
[14:48] <oimon> bug 738732
[14:49] <hamitron> ali1234, I fail to see why anyone with the time and skill to develop, should be drove away from the default user interface
[14:50] <hamitron> if that is the case, surely it could be made easier to use a different distro with the same base?
[14:54] <ali1234> hamitron: you miss the point. it isn't about the software
[14:54] <hamitron> ignoring the user base?
[14:55] <ali1234> it's not about ignoring the user base
[14:55] <ali1234> it's about ignoring the minority segment of the userbase that actually contributes
[14:56] <hamitron> but surely, the new interface of choice (unity) can be default, and have no affect on that minority... if it is organised in a way to provide the flexibility for them users
[14:57] <ali1234> no... that's not the problem
[14:57] <hamitron> say, not install ubuntu-desktop, but have gnome2-desktop
[14:57] <ali1234> it isn't about the software, it is about the whole way the project is run
[15:02] <ali1234> hamitron: the metaphor of FOSS as a vegetarian restaurant is a good illustration of the problem
[15:02] <shauno> same problem I've had with ubuntu on the desktop for some years now.  They don't design ubuntu for ubuntu users.  They design it for a hypothetical group of users they eventually plan to reach
[15:07] <hamitron> if there are enough that feel like that, surely a fork could come about?
[15:07] <ali1234> there is no need for a fork
[15:07] <ali1234> there are plenty of other distros
[15:08] <czajkowski> shauno: except those hypothetical users are users in face
[15:08] <czajkowski> *facet
[15:08] <czajkowski> *fact
[15:08] <czajkowski> dear gods laura wake up
[15:08] <hamitron> yeh, depends if there is something like what you want though
[15:08] <ali1234> yes, they are not hypothetical
[15:08] <ali1234> the problem is they do not contribute
[15:09] <czajkowski> people seem to forget canonical has a lot of end customers who use Ubuntu/unity just fine
[15:09] <ali1234> yes, they *use* it
[15:09] <ali1234> they do not contribute
[15:09] <czajkowski> ali1234: they pay money to canonical so canonical can develop
[15:09] <czajkowski> I consider that contribution
[15:09] <gord> we have a whole bunch of contributors to unity
[15:09]  * hamitron too
[15:09] <gord> they are awesome peeps
[15:10] <gord> most of them don't seem to have had much history pre-unity too
[15:10] <ali1234> that probably explains why unity is so buggy
[15:10] <popey> heh
[15:11] <matti> Who can I talk to about U1?
[15:11] <gord> thats kinda insulting to them...
[15:11] <hamitron> I know I tend to moan about stuff too.... but what do we want? ;)
[15:11]  * matti is testing U1 and some things seem to be not working too well ;]
[15:11] <ali1234> personally i don't want anything
[15:11] <ali1234> people like me are the problem
[15:11] <ali1234> i'm happy to sit and complain
[15:12] <ali1234> but i won't really contribute anything
[15:12] <czajkowski> ali1234: I think the unity developers are too quickly blamed for stuff
[15:12] <ali1234> people like me are the majority
[15:12] <ali1234> the core audience of ubuntu
[15:13] <czajkowski> they do a good job and as gord says that is kinda insulting to them
[15:13] <czajkowski> matti: ask in #ubuntuone
[15:13] <matti> czajkowski: OK!
[15:13] <hamitron> any job is better than nothing
[15:13] <hamitron> :)
[15:13] <czajkowski> ali1234: I think you'll find you're the minority, many of us in here contribute
[15:13] <czajkowski> one way or another
[15:13] <czajkowski> you chose to not help, that's entire your choice
[15:13] <ali1234> 164 people vs 2 million... yeah that will turn out great
[15:14]  * czajkowski hugs gord 
[15:14] <MooDoo> hullo all
[15:18]  * daubers offers around the contribution biscuits
[15:18] <czajkowski> whooo
[15:18] <czajkowski> bickies
[15:19]  * hamitron doesn't qualify
[15:19] <hamitron> :/
[15:19]  * daubers offers hamitron a contribution encouragement biscuit
[15:20] <hamitron> ty :)
[15:22] <oimon> i like how the screensaver "sort of" kicks in  ,but you can perform actions for 3-4 seconds before the password lock comes up :-\
[15:23] <ali1234> that's intentional
[15:23] <bigcalm> Like typing your password into IRC
[15:23] <ali1234> doing something is supposed to prevent the screensaver from activating
[15:24] <oimon> i mean. wait for 30 mins. type on keyboard..do stuff. then screensaver password lock kicks in
[15:24] <oimon> i think it's a gnome3 feature
[15:25] <ali1234> i dontunderstand
[15:25] <oimon> instead of a lock screen requiring a password, you get to use the pc for 5 seconds before that happens !
[15:26] <oimon> security fail
[15:26] <ali1234> yes, when the screensaver activates you get 5 seconds or so to cancel it
[15:26] <ali1234> in case you are reading something or whatever
[15:26] <oimon> i am talking about the screensaver already being active
[15:27] <ali1234> oh
[15:27] <ali1234> well clearly that is a bug
[15:27] <oimon> yeah!
[15:28] <oimon> can't keep up with bug reporting atm..
[15:29] <hamitron> it helps when support for your system is dropped
[15:29] <hamitron> ;)
[15:30] <hamitron> I haven't witnessed a bug for ages
[15:31] <oimon> you have some weird processor right?
[15:32] <hamitron> it is not weird
[15:32] <hamitron> i586
[15:32] <hamitron> ;/
[15:32] <oimon> :D
[15:32] <hamitron> it is pretty standard
[15:32] <hamitron> :D
[15:32] <hamitron> I wouldn't mind if compiling for i686 actually improved performance a lot
[15:33] <hamitron> but it just breaks things, for no real gain
[15:33] <oimon> does enabling apport sometimes make a bug behave differently?
[15:33] <ali1234> yes
[15:33] <oimon> repeat problem 10/10. enable apport..slightly differnt behaviour
[15:33] <chambo> If I install libgtk2.0-dev, which version is this?  Is it > gtk 2.4?
[15:35] <ali1234> 2.24.6
[15:38] <hamitron> so usb to serial adapters work well?
[15:38] <hamitron> do*
[15:38] <ali1234> sometimes
[15:39] <mgdm> hamitron: never had any trouble with the ones I have (forget what chipset they are, though)
[15:39] <chambo> Hmm I can't use a FileFilter for some reason even though it should be supported after gtkmm 2.4
[16:08] <ali1234> popey: your exaplanation of multiarch was completely wrong :)
[16:09] <ali1234> multiarch *is* a multi chipset thing - for example, you can install arm packages on a x86 machine for use with qemu
[16:09] <ali1234> also, old i386 only debs from the likes of amazon won't work properly with it, packages have to be specifically made to work with it
[16:19] <popey> ali1234: haha
[16:19]  * popey adds that to the feedback for next show, thanks :D
[16:19] <Laney> that last point is not true
[16:21] <ali1234> they might work by accident... but it isn't guaranteed
[16:21] <Laney> however you still can't install things if their dependencies haven't been converted to multiarch
[16:21] <Laney> for amazon that means boost and xdg-utils
[16:21] <ali1234> also if the debs in question install libraries... that will be bad
[16:23] <Laney> there are many ways for things to go wrong, but the basic fact is that applications do not need to be specifically converted
[16:23] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Mini Leadership Summit at the Ubuntu Developer Summit - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/17/mini-leadership-summit-at-the-ubuntu-developer-summit/
[16:27] <Laney> popey: looks like you set something in train eh?
[16:33] <popey> Laney: hmm?
[16:33] <popey> oh, that :D
[16:33] <Laney> isn't all of this summit and survey business came from that meeting?
[16:34] <popey> In part, yes, I think so.
[16:34] <Laney> good stuff
[16:34] <ali1234> it's so simple...
[16:34] <Laney> isn't ... came ...
[16:34] <Laney> my grammar are excellent
[16:35] <ali1234> all the people who want to effect change have given up and gone somewhere else
[16:35] <ali1234> the only people left are extremely pleased with the status quo, or completely apathetic
[16:35] <davmor2> Laney: you got that wrong it should be my grammar am excellent
[16:36] <AlanBell> I can't be bothered to be apathetic
[16:36] <JGJones> Hey, there was an alternative to VNC that's meant to be pretty fast with linux in general...can one tell me the name of the software used for it?
[16:37] <popey> NX
[16:37] <JGJones> Thanks
[16:37] <popey> NP
[16:37] <daubers> AlanBell: Problem I have is that the less apathetic I get, the busier I get, so the less time I have to be less apathetic!
[16:39] <daubers> Also, having now remembered about Thursday, I'm quite looking forward to it
[16:41] <AlanBell> yay
[16:41] <popey> me too
[16:41] <popey> now I also remembered
[16:42] <daubers> :)
[16:42] <AlanBell> christel was going to come too
[16:42] <AlanBell> and I expect issyl0 won't have forgotten
[16:42] <issyl0> AlanBell: What's going on?
[16:43] <AlanBell> lol
[16:43] <AlanBell> thursday
[16:43] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1277/detail/
[16:43] <issyl0> What's happening on Thursday?
[16:43] <popey> you know!
[16:43] <popey> 1277!
[16:43] <popey> everyone knows 1277
[16:43] <bigcalm> It's so descriptive!
[16:43] <issyl0> Oh alright!
[16:43] <popey> It _is_.
[16:43] <popey> I might even drink beer.
[16:44]  * AlanBell will file a bug about 1277 being a crap URL for happy-hour-farnborough
[16:44] <christel> Hooray!
[16:44] <christel> Thursday
[16:44] <christel> popey: *gasp*
[16:45] <bigcalm> I live in the wrong part of the world :(
[16:45] <popey> Yes! Move!
[16:45] <bigcalm> Haha
[16:45] <popey> Everyone move to Farnborough.
[16:46] <bigcalm> I bet I would lose my MatesRates
[16:46] <MartijnVdS> popey: But.. my job!
[16:46] <popey> heh
[16:46] <christel> bigcalm: yes, move
[16:46] <christel> bigcalm: we're more awesome down south
[16:46] <AlanBell> bug 876659
[16:46] <popey> Yeah, second thoughts... thinking about the resulting house price crash when hundreds of geeks move in...
[16:46] <popey> lovely bug title
[16:46] <popey> morphed from "crap" to " a bit rubbish"
[16:47] <popey> is that the en_GB title of the bug?
[16:47] <bigcalm> Heh
[16:47] <MartijnVdS> Understatement of the year award!
[16:47]  * AlanBell is not popey
[16:47] <daubers> Yes! Everyone move so I can afford to buy  a house
[16:47] <christel> popey: haha
[16:48]  * daubers should file a bug
[16:48] <issyl0> AlanBell: I might be there.  :-)
[16:48] <daubers> "House prices are too expensive down south, need more geeks to move in to reduce house value"
[16:49]  * popey confirmificates the bug
[16:49] <daubers> Also, apparently the battle of Ngasaunggyan was in 1277
[16:49] <daubers> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ngasaunggyan
[16:49] <daubers> Real place the looks like some head desking the keyboard
[16:50] <popey> we should celebrate that at the meeting
[16:50] <popey> make it a theme
[16:50] <popey> Khaaaaaaaaaan!
[16:50] <daubers> Hooray Kula Khan beat the pagans?
[16:50] <daubers> Kubla
[16:52]  * daubers goes home
[16:54]  * popey goes home
[16:56]  * davmor2 is home
[16:56]  * davmor2 is at work too though :(
[16:57]  * bigcalm too - forever at work
[16:57] <bigcalm> Pacific 202 \o/
[16:59] <Monsterwizard> anyone here do 'Computer' 'Science'
[17:01] <AlanBell> Monsterwizard: in school?
[17:01] <Monsterwizard> yeah
[17:01] <Monsterwizard> or else..
[17:01] <Monsterwizard> anything
[17:01] <Monsterwizard> really
[17:01] <AlanBell> best place to find that is in the design and technology department
[17:02] <AlanBell> sometimes maths, but anywhere but the ICT department really
[17:04] <AlanBell> secondary schools here are quite clear that they don't do programming in ICT
[17:04] <Monsterwizard> silly
[17:04] <Monsterwizard> D:
[17:04] <Monsterwizard> why not?
[17:04] <Monsterwizard> kids already know how to use software
[17:05] <AlanBell> but in the design and technology department they are programming picaxe chips to drive robots around and know what an arduino is
[17:06] <AlanBell> and have programmable laser cutters and design algorithms for pneumatic circuits
[17:07] <MartijnVdS> Lasers!
[17:07] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[17:08] <AlanBell> really quite depressing some of the ICT teachers responses
[17:09] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "We only teach the things we're forced to teach" ?
[17:09] <MartijnVdS> stuff like that?
[17:09] <AlanBell> "don't worry, there is no programming required"
[17:09] <MartijnVdS> ...
[17:09]  * AlanBell . . . stunned silence
[17:09] <MartijnVdS> I'd worry if there was no programming required
[17:09] <MartijnVdS> even if it's just "Hello world"
[17:24] <gordonjcp> Soryy708: I like combining microcontrollers and analogue filters
[17:24] <gordonjcp> oops
[17:24] <gordonjcp> mischan
[17:31] <chambo> Can't you do computing GCSEs?
[17:32] <chambo> I remember because my school didn't do it and if I wanted any kind of IT qualification it had to be GNVQ ICT
[17:32] <chambo> Which was basically how to word process
[17:32] <chambo> People at uni with good schools had all sorts of cool sourses like electronics and computing etc etc and all we got was GNVQ ICT
[17:36] <AlanBell> there is talk of reintroducing computing at some schools
[17:36] <jacobw> there is A level computing
[17:38]  * jacobw learnt winlogo at school
[17:39] <AlanBell> http://www.bcs.org/content/conWebDoc/19144
[17:40] <jacobw> o/ daubers
[17:40] <daubers> o/
[17:44] <daubers> I do love cloud syncy tools
[17:57] <gippers> hello
[17:58] <gippers> is this a good place to get help with a libpam-mount issue?
[18:02] <gippers> hmm, I guess not then
[18:04] <davmor2> jacobw: how hard was it to draw a square  quarter it and colour them in the appropriate colours, I mean even the new winlogo is the same just wavey ;)
[18:04] <AlanBell> !ask | gippers
[18:14] <dwatkins> I guess gippers left, then
[19:05] <popey> Evening all
[19:14] <daubers> o/ popey
[19:19] <pgdcracker> hey all
[19:34] <Monsterwizard> what does this meeting involve?
[19:34] <Monsterwizard> " Meeting 20th October 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting"
[19:36] <gord> ironically, people being at the pub ;) AlanBell ^^ you seen the conflict there?
[19:37] <popey> hah
[19:37] <popey> we can still be online from the pub :D
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> pubs have internets?!
[19:40] <AlanBell> internets can be arranged
[19:40] <gord> grand
[19:41] <popey> i might have to pop round there and see if they have wifi
[19:41] <Azelphur> Step 1) Bring me and my phone, Step 2) Everybody has internets
[19:42] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: are old enough for pub visits now? :P
[19:43]  * popey also has mobile internettings
[19:43] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I'm 21 :P
[19:43] <popey> multiple mobile internettings
[19:43] <Azelphur> mobile internettings are fun
[19:43] <MartijnVdS> popey: also, you live next door, so you can just beam in your 300MBit wifi
[19:43] <popey> heh
[19:43] <gord> my phones pretty good for mobile internet these days :) quite happy
[19:44] <gord> apart from that one place in town, but i just don't eat there anymore
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> gord: did you tell them that?
[19:44] <MartijnVdS> gord: "I won't eat here anymore. 3G reception is shit."
[19:44] <popey> hehe
[19:44] <popey> I'd totally say that
[19:44] <brobostigon> :)
[19:44] <gord> i'm too nice ;)
[19:44] <popey> and give them my card, and tell them I'd put wifi in for them
[19:45] <gord> oh they have wifi, pay for wifi
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> popey: they could just get one of those Vodafone nanocells or whatever they're called
[19:45] <popey> Attocells
[19:45] <popey> For when Pico isn't small enough
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> "femto" is in there as well
[19:46] <popey> pffft
[19:46] <popey> E_TOOBIG
[19:46]  * MartijnVdS wonders what an exacell would look like
[20:16] <christel> AlanBell: i like that bit of meeting scheduling :p
[20:16] <christel> i shall learn from it and schedule all my meetings for times at which i am pubbing
[20:17] <AlanBell> christel: it wasn't exactly done with a lot of thought, but now it is done, I can't see a reason to change it!
[20:17] <christel> hehe
[20:17] <daubers> "Point of order: Popey's round!"
[20:17] <popey> :D
[20:17] <christel> it's always popey's round!
[20:19] <daubers> Also, what's the closest station? Farn Main or Farn North?
[20:19] <popey> north
[20:19] <christel> (is daubers cute?)
[20:19] <popey> haha
[20:19] <popey> he's married if that helps?
[20:20] <christel> aww!
[20:20] <daubers> Umm..........
[20:20] <daubers> Rdg to Frn north is only 25 minutes on the train
[20:20] <popey> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Farnborough+North+Station,+Farnborough+to+Prince+Of+Wales,+Farnborough&saddr=Farnborough+North+Station,+Farnborough&daddr=Prince+Of+Wales,+Farnborough&hl=en&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=21.172589,54.448242&geocode=FZbNDgMdiKn0_yEbpd_kynF77Q%3BFY3HDgMd06j0_yE9iuw-0swN3A&vpsrc=0&t=h&z=18
[20:20] <popey> observe the significant walk
[20:21] <daubers> Nice! So I take the train, be there quicker and can drink
[20:21] <christel> speaking of reading, when are we doing the hobgoblin?
[20:21] <pepito> greetings!!!!
[20:21] <christel> Dave2: stop making excuses and come too! if daubers can do the trip from reading then you totally can too!
[20:22] <popey> I AGREE
[20:22]  * AlanBell laughs at the casual objectification of daubers
[20:22] <popey> I will buy a pint if Dave2 comes.
[20:22] <christel> popey: that is a bit far, are there any pubs on the way in which i can stop for a quick pint?
[20:22] <pepito> pints are never quick
[20:22] <popey> I will of course drink said beer in the presence of Dave2
[20:22] <daubers> AlanBell: It doesn't happen often! Quite a nice novelty
[20:22] <christel> AlanBell: i do not know what posessed me :)
[20:23] <popey> christel: yes!
[20:23] <popey> amazingly there is :D
[20:23] <christel> haha that is incredible
[20:23] <daubers> Also, a £5.30 return is probably cheaper than the diesel
[20:23] <christel> (i will now have to have a pint on the way!)
[20:24] <pepito> pints and trains and diesel do not generally mix well
[20:24] <popey> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=Farnborough+North+Station,+Farnborough&daddr=Imperial+Arms,+Farnborough+Street,+Farnborough+to:Prince+Of+Wales,+Farnborough&hl=en&ll=51.300995,-0.743347&spn=0.002723,0.006647&sll=51.301309,-0.743278&sspn=0.005474,0.013293&geocode=FZbNDgMdiKn0_yEbpd_kynF77Q%3BFZ3LDgMdNqj0_yHzRzoogatEhCll0DVA1tR1SDGNDRALfeRRnA%3BFY3HDgMd06j0_yE9iuw-0swN3A&vpsrc=0&mra=ls&t=h&z=18
[20:24] <pepito> but somehow I have a feeling it is suitable for this bunch
[20:24] <popey> improved link!
[20:24] <popey> with added pit-stop!
[20:25] <christel> haha superb :D
[20:26] <pepito> I don't mean to sidetrack yeralls diversionary planning, but I have a wee question that I can't seem to find an suitable answer to in any of the usual resources
[20:26] <popey> Go ahead caller...
[20:26] <pepito> lol
[20:27] <pepito> I just tried using Skype for the first time since switching to Ubuntu..
[20:27] <pepito> my webcam doesnt work
[20:27] <pepito> I have a built in webcam in my laptop
[20:27] <pepito> and I have a usb webcam logitech
[20:27] <pepito> neither work
[20:27] <pepito> what am I overlooking here?
[20:29] <pepito> and yes, I have installed the cheese driver, which is what is reccomended in most sources I found
[20:29] <AlanBell> what webcam?
[20:30] <pepito> the webcam built into my laptop
[20:30] <AlanBell> yeah, I meant the model numbers
[20:31] <pepito> ahhh  sorry.
[20:31] <AlanBell> anyhow, in skype options there should be a video devices tab
[20:31] <pepito> let me see if I can find anything
[20:31] <pepito> I have been there
[20:31] <AlanBell> and a select webcam dropdown, with the two options in it, and a test button to the right
[20:31] <pepito> right
[20:31] <pepito> this is the odd part....
[20:32] <pepito> normally if there is no webcam then test won't even be an option in skype...
[20:32] <pepito> I have a test button, but there is no webcam function
[20:34] <pepito> the usb webcam is a logitech, but has no serial or model numbers on it.  The other webcam is built into the laptop, which is a Fujitsu Siemens.
[20:35] <daubers> !lsusb
[20:35] <AlanBell> do lsusb in a terminal and paste just the line relating to the camera
[20:35] <daubers> We really should have a factoid for that :(
[20:35] <pepito> anyway I thought it might have something to do with some sort of plugin or package I might need but cant find any mention of anywhere
[20:35] <pepito> I am self educating about terminals, but I havent heard of lsusb yet.
[20:36] <daubers> pepito: Open a terminal and simply type "lsusb" :)
[20:36] <daubers> Hmmm… 3/4 of the way through my OU assessment and losing the will to live
[20:38] <pepito> that is bitchin
[20:38] <pepito> so basically I just asked my terminal what devices I have connected to usb ports?
[20:38] <daubers> pepito: Yes. If you can find the lines for your cameras we can start looking for more specific help
[20:39] <pepito> Bus 007 Device 002: ID 046d:08d9 Logitech, Inc. QuickCam IM/Connect
[20:40] <daubers> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SkypeWebCams would be a good place to start
[20:41] <daubers> If you search for the ID there is some information there
[20:41] <daubers> I have to vanish to get a few bits finished before bed, but someone else should be able to help you get a bit further with the information given :)
[20:42] <pepito> okay I am on it like a fat kid on a cupcake.  thanks for the help so far
[20:42] <daubers> Night all!
[20:47] <penguin42> pepito: cupcakes don't really make you fat - there just isn't enough in them
[20:49] <pepito> I reckon that depends on how many you eat and whether you use gramma's recipe or Betty Crocker's
[20:49] <penguin42> cupcakes seem to sell for ludicrous amounts
[20:50]  * penguin42 just chain eats muffins instead
[20:56] <pepito> muffins?
[20:56] <pepito> do you know the muffin man?
[20:57] <penguin42> the muffin man?
[20:58] <penguin42> I should point out that when I refer to muffins I'm referring to muffins as used in the UK, not the American term muffins
[20:58] <pepito> is there a difference?
[20:59] <pepito> we americans have a few uses for the term muffin :D
[20:59] <penguin42> pepito: I mean a form of sweet confection often incorporating chocolate (in various forms) or blueberries
[21:00] <AlanBell> english muffins are like ice hocky pucks, but made from bread
[21:02] <pepito> penguin42: yes that is what we call a muffin too (the more family friendly usage of the term)
[21:02] <penguin42> ah ok
[21:02] <pepito> AlanBell: we have those in the states, and we do call them English muffins, we like to use them to make something called Eggs Benedict
[21:03] <penguin42> pepito: I think they're only called english muffins in the US
[21:03] <pepito> but here is an interesting bit with some commentary by some brits http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question81331.html
[21:03] <AlanBell> what gets me is what the americans call a biscuit, which is actually a scone
[21:03] <pepito> no no no
[21:03] <AlanBell> and they put gravy on it, rather than whipped cream and strawberries
[21:04] <pepito> what you call a scone is actually a biscuit.   A scone is actually bread dough that has been flattened and fried in oil
[21:04]  * penguin42 isn't sure we'd ever do that to bread dough
[21:04] <AlanBell> biscuit is the superset of cookie
[21:04] <pepito> biscuits are generally bland and tasteless, and must be smothered by large amounts of greasy gravy in order to make them palatable
[21:05] <pepito> you should definitely do it to bread dough, and then proceed to make something called a Navajo taco
[21:05] <penguin42> AlanBell: I'm not sure they're biscuit is a scone, I mean a scone is sweet and nice and tasty
[21:05] <pepito> which is neither from the Navajos nor is it a Taco
[21:05] <AlanBell> pepito: http://wightstyle.co.uk/uploads/content_documents/650/cream_tea.jpg
[21:06] <pepito> mmmm
[21:06] <pepito> that does look like what we call a biscuit
[21:06] <pepito> could taste good, could taste like a mouthful of baking powder
[21:07] <pepito> personally I don't much care for biscuits, I'd rather have a roll, which is basically bread but in biscuitary portions
[21:07] <pepito> and one of gramma's rolls, warm out of the oven with butter and jam is a slice of heaven fo sho
[21:09] <pepito> okay I have now got the webcam working on Cheese but still not on skype....
[21:09] <pepito> I am not doing too bad for a humble carpenter
[21:10] <pepito> ....well the carpenter part is true.
[21:23] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Tat - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/17/ubuntu-tat/
[22:40] <abdallah> Is there any practical way not to be signed on youtube while being signed on gmail?
[22:40] <abdallah> (practical means using one brower and not in the private mode)
[22:41] <hamitron> run a different browser or as 2 seperate instances
[22:41] <hamitron> bah, ok
[22:41] <hamitron> ;)
[22:42] <hamitron> I'd probably look at running the same browser, as 2 different users
[22:43] <abdallah> How do I get a second instance of FF? Or how I run it with a different user?
[22:44] <penguin42> abdallah: You can do it in the same user
[22:44] <penguin42> abdallah: Now by 2nd instance you mean another one that doesn't share the same bookmarks history etc?
[22:45] <abdallah> Hopefully not, I was just refering to hamitron's answer
[22:45] <hamitron> mine is just a brain fart
[22:46] <hamitron> ;)
[22:46] <hamitron> penguin42's way will be better
[22:46] <abdallah> When I try "firefox -no-remote" it tells me, I should close the other window :(
[22:47] <penguin42> abdallah: tell it to use a different profile as well
[22:47] <bigcalm> Maybe you have to run both with that command 1st
[22:47] <penguin42> abdallah: firefox -P youtube -no-remote should do it
[22:54] <abdallah> hamitron, penguin42, bigcalm: thanks for your answers. I created another ff profile for youtube and it seems to be working.
[22:54] <hamitron> nice
[22:54] <hamitron> :)
[22:58] <penguin42> hmm 11.10's installer is nice - offered to take a photo with the webcam for account creation; it wasn't very flattering
[22:58] <bigcalm> Aww, I didn't do a fresh install so missed out on that option
[22:59] <penguin42> bigcalm: Yeh, 1st time I've run the full installer, just doing my netbook
[22:59] <bigcalm> Ah. My eeepc 1000 could do with a fresh install
[22:59] <penguin42> (It does startup the webcam without asking, which erm well, I've only got my dressing gown on
[23:01] <bigcalm> I can't remember if the eeepc 1000 is 32 or 64bit
[23:01] <bigcalm> wikipedia isn't helping
[23:01] <penguin42> this 1001ha is 32
[23:02] <bigcalm> Ta
[23:02] <bigcalm> I have the 1000w
[23:03] <bigcalm> Doesn't get used much these days, such a shame
[23:03] <bigcalm> Have too many gadgets not being used
[23:04]  * penguin42 uses it when he goes to miniconferences and LUGs etc
[23:04] <bigcalm> Only thing I really go to is oggcamp. And then I take a full laptop to the hotel but go to the venues just a phone and wallet :)
[23:06] <gord> last uds i just took my superlight arm netbook around with me, left all the heavy stuff in my room, was great :)
[23:06] <gord> a bunch of people took tablets, but they are just hipsters ;) really cool people like me have netbooks/laptops
[23:07] <penguin42> keyboards do really make things useful
[23:09] <penguin42> that's curious - the 1st boot has just said that /dev/mapper/cryptswap isn't present  - I didn't set one up so am not sure why it is expecting one
[23:26] <penguin42> ah, it's bug 874774 (possibly bug 475936 rearing up again)