[07:05] Morning all [07:39] Morning [07:40] morning [07:40] Back in the office after a few weeks away. Back to a list of support/feature requests [07:45] * daubers does a test upgrade of his work machine [07:47] ok ubuntu fans... ive managed to solve most of the horrific number of errors from the 11.10 upgrade on my own but this one im stuck on [07:47] when ever i add a new package, i get an error from dpkg: [07:47] dpkg: error processing snort (--configure): [07:47] subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 10 [07:47] Errors were encountered while processing: [07:47] snort [07:49] are there any clues in earlier output? (usually you'll see the actual problem as the package tries to install, and then that summary when apt is done) [07:49] nope [07:49] and its for ANY app that i install [07:49] snort was already there when i did the upgrade and weirdly...it still works fine === jamespag` is now known as jamespage [08:09] hello all [08:12] good morning everyone. [08:18] Morning peeps :) [08:22] freakyclown: You could try reconfiguring snort [08:22] dpkg-reconfigure I think? [08:23] tried it failed [08:23] so atm ive removed snort [08:23] remove snort and reinstall? [08:23] heh [08:23] tried that too it failed also [08:23] its not a problem until i go on client site [08:33] saw a grown-up man reading viz on the train today :-\ [08:33] that still exists? [08:33] My ex father in law still buys it @ 64 oimon [08:33] viz rocks :D [08:33] Gets the annual every year as well [08:33] wow [08:33] I know :) [08:33] oimon: Isn't that still a "top shelf" comic anyway, so you have to be "grown up" to buy it :) [08:33] i didn't think anyone over 18 bought it [08:34] I've not read it since i was like 14 maybe [08:35] diplo: exactly [08:35] Happy Monday, everyone! :) [08:35] i think it actually retards one's brain development [08:35] Well there is my ex father in law then :) [08:36] freakyclown: for what its worth I just installed snort with no errors [08:36] curious [08:37] freakyclown: Did you remove and purge? or just remove [08:37] mm mdidnt purge.....ill trythat in a minute [08:41] rar purge seems to have fixed it [08:41] not sure what had broken in the upgrade though [08:52] how do i close all windows and show desktop in 11.10? [08:53] alt tab [08:53] 1st option [08:56] bigcalm: i'm in unity2d [08:57] No idea then :) [08:58] i keep giving unity a chance, but it keeps letting me down :( [09:00] aloha [09:00] oimon: can you try + D [09:00] morning czajkowski [09:01] oimon: or ctrl alt D [09:01] MooDoo: fail :( [09:01] ctrl-alt-D yay ! :D [09:01] thanks [09:01] if you do it again, i think it puts them back [09:10] http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/show-desktop-icon-for-ubuntu-unity.html [09:10] woo :D [09:11] how can I deactivate the new (Oneiric) window switcher? the grouping is driving me insane [09:13] FND: it's a feature, I heaerd [09:15] MartijnVdS: yes, but it's not optional AFAICT... [09:15] maybe ccsm has some options? unity2d has the old alt-tab [09:16] I didn't find anything in ccsm [09:16] I might go for unity2d then [09:16] its the same in unity2d [09:16] oh for alt-tab only? [09:16] nevermind me [09:16] though you can just turn on the old alt-tab in unity3d [09:16] its in ccsm [09:16] how so? [09:17] turn on the plugin called static window switcher or something like that, then just enable its keybindings over-riding the unity ones [09:21] Hello. [09:23] gord: I just did that, resolving the key conflicts in favor of Static Application Switcher - all it did was crash/restart Compiz on first use... guess I'll have to restart [09:29] gord: the static app switcher looks very similar to Unity's, and also does grouping? [09:29] * FND feels like he's missing something [09:29] FND, disable the keybindings in the unity plugin, ccsm is being crap [09:30] gord: yeah, just realized that - weird, since the conflict resolution had me disable them already [09:32] it works fine now, thanks [09:36] while I'm working through the Unity kinks, anyone use Tilda? [09:36] my Tilda keeps shifting to the right (by the width of the dock), so it's not flush against the left of the screen [09:37] i.e. it always seems to think the dock is expanded [09:43] Has there been any report of wired connections failing in 11.10? I took my laptop to my parents at the weekend. It connected to their Sky wifi but failed to make use of their Ethernet over Power [09:45] I set one machine up at the weekend with a wired connection and didn't have any problems with it, thats about all I can add [09:48] We've had issues with wired this moring with my colleague, ended up with a reboot for a fix [09:48] bigcalm: checked here its fine [09:50] bigcalm: what was wrong? couldn't see link? couldn't get DHCP address? [09:51] i've just run apt-get install lubuntu-desktop kubuntu-desktop xubuntu-desktop ...the results could be quite hideous [09:54] Dunno, I wasn't in the mood to debug it that much. Would just spin for ever trying to connect but not get any where. The same cable would work fine on both of my parents' laptops. I'll get around to trying a wired connection here at some point :) [10:12] apparently forwarding a tweet can cure cancer [10:13] lol yay spam tweets [10:14] morning all [10:14] morning davmor2 [10:14] Morning [10:15] MooDoo: "RT @OfficialCANCER: Unfortunately, 97% of twitter users will not RT this for cancer. But the 3% who do are the ones willing to #makeachange" [10:15] Hmm... confused [10:15] MooDoo: Spam Sweets man you really hate the treat or treaters don't you? [10:15] Joys of having 2 computers on your desk [10:17] oimon: i hate that kind of tweet [10:17] trick or treaters even [10:19] Trick or treat, [10:19] smell my feet, [10:19] give me something good to eat! [10:19] * daubers gives MooDoo some bacon [10:20] While you're cooking it, make me a sandwich too :) [10:22] daubers: you da man!! :) [10:22] MooDoo !!! [10:22] * GirlyGirl pours some coffee on MooDoo [10:23] s-fox: heloooooooooooooooo [10:23] GirlyGirl: on??? noooooooooo that hurts [10:23] MooDoo: Don't worry its cold coffee [10:23] GirlyGirl: i love cold coffee :) so that's ok then [10:26] * BigRedS discovered iced espresso this summer [10:26] it's awesome [10:27] i had an iced coffee in costa last friday. it was disgusting [10:27] the cafe nero ones are yum [10:28] i'm actually on about normal nescafe that's been left on the side :) [10:32] wow - anyone tried xubuntu 11.10? [10:33] no longer ugly. they've also deliberately made it look a bit like gnome shell, but works like gnome2 [10:40] * daubers puts on some UUPC and beats some sense into some code [10:45] popey, Cafe Nero put an extra espresso in which might explain it [10:46] the only thing i find coffee shops good for is hot chocolate :P [10:47] and they just happened to open a costa 2 doors down from where i work \o/ [10:47] Cafe Nero's chocolate cake is the yum [10:48] i would live in starbucks if i could [10:48] I just have an espresso machine at home so I never need to venture out of the house [10:48] I found a really nommy coffee shop in Reading [10:49] Make very nice white chocolate cakey things [10:49] gord, you might be able to get a flat above a starbucks? [10:49] the costa one was too strong for me [10:56] *sigh* [10:56] "Can you explain what's wrong with this switch?" - "It doesn't work" [10:59] daubers: fair assessment [10:59] Magic [11:01] MartijnVdS: Define "work" and define "doesn't" :) [11:14] daubers: have you tried turning it off and on again? [11:14] .me ducks [11:15] MooDoo: I asked them that :) [11:15] :D [11:20] MooDoo: lol [11:20] It always does the trick ;) [11:20] LUNCH! [11:22] Any of you guys use svn for web dev ? [11:22] bigcalm: Bacon sarnie please :) [11:23] diplo: I do [11:23] [Martin Meredith] Adventures with the Galaxy SII - http://www.sourceguru.net/adventures-galaxy-sii/ [11:23] Mez: Phone cover D'oh [11:24] diplo: yep [11:24] bigcalm, we have like 80-90 sites, we have a core backend and customer specific front end... what do you do to make sure your websites are upto date ? [11:24] only 5-6 sites on this new backend [11:24] woah. We deploy to only server. [11:24] I'm basically thinking of a way to get svn info out from each web host [11:24] to make sure customer has most up to date [11:24] with out manually checking [11:25] Wondering if anyone has come across anything like it ? [11:26] Youdicomfortable with fabric? [11:26] err [11:26] Are you comfrotable with python? [11:26] If you are, you should look at fabric [11:27] I'm teaching myself python atm [11:27] Will take a look now ta [11:35] in thunderbird is there a way to save all your settings like you can on Evolution? [11:44] ping Laney [11:45] hello MooDoo [11:46] Laney: how was the beer festival? [11:46] busy and beery [11:46] milk stout was probably my fave [11:46] yum..... [11:47] davmor2, i think ~/.thunderbird/.default/prefs.js [11:49] gord: Man that sucks, this is meant to be the better of the 2 mail clients, you lose calendaring, if you install lightning you have to jump through hoops to add a google calendar, and there is noway to export settings man I'm still falling out of love with Thunderbird :( [11:49] lightning sucks on my pc ..still use it, but it sucks :( [11:49] davmor2, um... it answer email good. gord happy. [11:49] i never used evo for more than that, it was terrible at everything [11:50] davmor2: Hoops for google calendars? [11:50] fyi, if you haven't install the conversation addon for thunderbird, it makes it a nice gmail like experience [11:50] davmor2: What hoops do you mean? [11:50] Just use the CalDAV API from Google. [11:50] * daubers just used caldav [11:51] You don't need to add any other extensions. [11:54] daubers, TheOpenSourcerer: in evo you add a new calendar, you select google, you add your login details and select the calendar you want, on thunderbird you add the new calendar, you select google, no login you then have to open up google calendar in browser track through all the setting till you find the right url and then add that url to lightning, and you only get the named calendar so you may have to go through [11:54] the process several times [11:55] That sounds right - It would be nice if you could get it to pull the available calendars down based on login credentials. [11:55] Let Phillipp know you'd like it ;-) (Or write it and submit a patch). [11:56] Chris Coulson would probably be interested to hear too. [11:57] TheOpenSourcerer: I've got to the point where I can write a basic script in python I don't think I'm ready to patch Thunderbird :) [11:57] Ah I should have said chrisccoulson [11:58] Lightning is a bit more complex that many TB/Mozilla extensions as it has some C code so it needs to be compiled for each TB release. Most are all just Javascript. [11:59] davmor2: There is also an IRC channel specially for you :-) #ubuntu-mozillateam [12:01] TheOpenSourcerer: I just think it is a really sucky way to introduce new users to email/calendaring which is a shame as TB has some really nice features. I wil go on there an have a rant though thanks :) [12:06] The other thing I want for TB is an Outlook Web Access plugin that works (along with the "gateway" thing that a lot of OWA servers have in front of them now to stop them getting pwned so easily [12:06] Then I could use TB for my work email again [12:06] I'd have a hope in hell of being able to find old mails [12:06] i think new users use gmail and google calendar [12:06] thunderbird is for my work stuff [12:07] I'm using TB for my gmail ATM [12:07] Experimentally, really [12:07] i am on my laptop but not my desktop, i can't quite qualify why really [12:07] davmor2: ?? [12:07] but i feel no inclination to add it to my desktop [12:26] Ooooh... I'd forgotten pubbage on Thursday [12:33] Mez: Just read you're planet post and it tickled me :) [12:33] Mez: did you decide what you were going to do about it? [12:51] popey: You realise the apathy thing is a more widespread problem? (i.e. not just limited to Ubuntu/OS Projects) [12:51] You listening to UUPC perchance? [12:52] popey: Indeed [12:53] I hit the same problems when I tried to restart the physics society at Uni [12:54] Seems to take an awful lot to keep people interested [12:55] We also had a similar issue within this group not too long ago (beggining of last year?) [12:56] daubers: groups go through phases I think when I took over running my comp soc, it had been run by blokes for years so was always admin focused and not really interacting so I changed that [12:58] personally i blame windows 7, it wasn't terrible [12:58] * Laney listens [12:59] We're also going to be fighting a generation of people who where introduced to computers as appliances to facebook/email on and little else [13:00] czajkowski: this is sort of the problem we're finding with the amateur radio club I'm a member of [13:00] czajkowski: oh, admin as in sysadmin? [13:00] d'oh [13:01] czajkowski: I meant more that we have a couple of committee members that appear to be more interested in having a Bureaucracy Club rather than an Amateur Radio Club [13:01] gordonjcp: aye sys admin, we had folks who wanted to build servers and do stuff like that [13:01] but nobody leaving the server room [13:02] so I started a monthly talk [13:02] inviting a past graduate who was a member of the society and then someone from a company [13:02] meet greet give a talk na dhave a few pints [13:02] kicked things going again [13:03] we had to have some sort of bureaucracy due to getting a budget and we edned up getting one for 15K [13:03] czajkowski: yeah [13:03] so sent students to MIT for a week [13:03] FOSDEM [13:03] nice [13:03] different events that they wouldnt get to go to [13:05] czajkowski: This was the purpose of the "Happy Hours" (as originally invisiged I think) [13:05] Get more people with more face to face time [13:05] popey: did you try vimtutor? [13:05] daubers: aye and tis working [13:05] Laney: not yet [13:05] Hopefully I'll be able to make the one on Thursday [13:06] Might need to bribe the missus [13:06] the missus used it to learn the basics [13:06] seemed to like it [13:07] People are a hard problem to solve [13:09] my nasty secret is eatmydata aptitude full-upgrade [13:11] :D [13:20] The thing is , you're never ever gonna get eveyrone along to one event, people don't like x y z the best you can hope for is that at least 2-3 people turn up enjoy it and tell others so they'll come to another one. Varying types of meet ups helps so you can get people who wont go to one event but will to another to come along [13:22] the reason I don't go to the lug events near me is I find them boring, the age group really isn't mine they meet up and have talks about things I'm not interested, where as I'll go to a hapy hour, have some nosh, drink and a chat [13:22] everyone is different [13:22] Might sit down tonight and transcribe that podcast conversation [13:23] Since it's kind of important really [13:23] personally, i don't like eating and talking at the same time [13:24] +1 [13:24] nor do i enjoy eating with strangers [13:24] +2 [13:25] * oimon waits to see if ali1234 will say 3 things in a row he agrees with :) [13:25] meh I'll talk to a wall [13:25] I dont care who I talk to [13:25] I suspect its not the talking [13:25] its the eating [13:25] makes it more interesting if different people turn up each time [13:26] I find I keep meeting the same people more or less [13:26] Need to go to more events [13:26] people like to complain to me about ubuntu/unity when i turn up to things, which makes things much less fun ;) [13:26] gord awwwwww *hugs* [13:27] gord: go in disguise [13:27] gord: pretend you work on server everyone loves the server :p [13:27] gord: Next time, take your cat and set it to stun? [13:27] gord: but that's what your there for though right? [13:28] I am not going to events where there are cats. [13:28] gord no cats! [13:28] czajkowski: Does that mean I can't take my wife anywhere you go? [13:28] gord: bring cats :D [13:29] daubers: does she bring cats with her......... [13:29] have you ever tried to bring a cat anywhere? it rarely goes well [13:29] leave the pets at home [13:29] daubers: no it means you and your wife go but czajkowski doesn't :) [13:29] gord: borrow marks vader mask [13:29] czajkowski: No... her name is Kat :) [13:29] daubers: :0 [13:29] :) [13:29] when i moved in to this place it was only down the road from my old place, so i decided to carry my cat. everything was going great until a car went past... scarred for life [13:30] what about the cat? [13:30] :D [13:30] [2945636.480018] usb 5-1: device not accepting address 48, error -71 [2945636.480039] hub 5-0:1.0: unable to enumerate USB device on port 1 [13:30] :( how can i get my phone to mount, without restart/logout [13:31] use a different USB port [13:32] :D [13:32] I remember a time in computing where there were less problems like that.... [13:33] or am I just looking overly fondly of the past? [13:33] USB used to work quite well [13:33] oh yeah no one ever had problems with serial devices [13:33] floppy drives worked *perfectly* too [13:33] now the ports die all the time [13:33] well, I was thinking USB [13:33] half the ports on my motherboard don't work [13:33] serial was hassle ofc [13:33] :) [13:33] floppy disks didn't though [13:33] and if i plug two devices into a hub on one port, the whole port stops working [13:34] especially when you put them in your school bag alongside the monster munch [13:34] ali1234, so it isn't just me? [13:34] no, it isn't just you [13:34] the developers even know about these bugs [13:34] but for some reason they aren't getting fixed [13:35] i believe it is related to the IRQ problems with sound as well [13:35] all about the fancy interfaces, and nothing about getting things to work [13:35] :/ [13:35] it's not just about the fancy interfaces [13:36] it's about commercialization of linux [13:36] probably [13:36] the USB host drivers are developed almost exclusively by intel now [13:36] if they were commercialising linux, why would they introduce a UI that divides the userbase ? [13:37] no doubt it works flawlessly if you have an intel machine [13:37] but if someone tries a linux distro/device, and they get these problems..... it will tarnish their opinion of linux for a long time [13:37] my machine's been up for 30-odd days but that should be ok [13:37] yes, well, the companies that develop linux these days are not interested in after market installs [13:37] as long as it works on the hardware they are trying to shift, that is all that matters [13:38] my chromium browser has been running for around the same time with > 30 tabs, performing very well compared to firefox [13:38] said hardware isn't sold with a "linux" logo, except maybe on page 356 of the user manual [13:38] so it doesn't matter [13:38] if they even provide a manual [13:38] ;) [13:45] Meh, I get USB problems on my mac all the time [13:45] yeah [13:45] that's exactly what i'm talking about [13:45] ever since the commercialization, linux is now no more reliable than windows or mac [13:46] :/ [13:46] sorry to say, but windows is ahead atm [13:46] ;) [13:46] windows is in the toilet like it has always been [13:46] HAH! I have at least 3 USB peripherals that don't work on Windows :) [13:46] yeh [13:46] daubers, nice [13:46] i'm not talking abut things that don't work [13:46] :) [13:47] i'm talking about host drivers [13:47] when you plug in a device and the port shuts down [13:47] then it works if you plug into a different port [13:47] is it something to do with power saving, or what? lack of power? [13:47] it's just about broken drivers [13:48] but they used to work [13:48] :/ [13:48] yes, they did [13:48] so something has screwed them up? [13:48] they used to work on old hardware when the drivers were written by different people [13:48] USB 2 has never worked properly on linux since it was invented [13:49] the only way to make USB 2 device work reliably under linux is to plug it into a USB 1 port, or put a USB 1 hub between the device and the host [13:49] interesting [13:49] and I was sulking my laptop only has USB 1 [13:49] ;) [13:50] ali1234: o_O [13:50] tbh, I blame how everything is rushed to market [13:50] what's wrong with USB2? [13:50] USB just works for me [13:50] it... doesn't work? [13:50] everyone has such tight release schedules [13:50] ali1234: example? [13:51] I've never had any bother with USB of any form on Linux. Windows, however... [13:51] plug in USB 2 device and you have a 50% chance of getting "device not accepting address" [13:51] I have a Microsoft USB mouse that has never worked in Windows [13:51] plug it into a USB 1 port and it works fine [13:51] ali1234: example, not anecdote [13:51] what do you mean example? [13:51] I have never seen that error [13:51] well, give me a specific device and controller to try it with [13:51] I have, but it was a dying flash drive [13:51] you guys have never needed to reboot for usb? [13:51] mgdm: same, but dying USB-ATA bridge [13:52] :| [13:52] hamitron: only with *insane* USB devices [13:52] 00:12.2 USB Controller: ATI Technologies Inc SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 USB EHCI Controller [13:52] hamitron: nope, never [13:52] Bus 001 Device 003: ID 059b:0370 Iomega Corp. [13:52] old (firmware 1.05 or earlier) Mototrbo radios used to really make USB toss its cookies [13:52] Oo, a zip drive? (I haven't been reading up) [13:52] ali1234: USB zip dis? [13:53] click [13:53] no, it isn't a ZIP drive [13:53] click click click [13:53] it's a hard drive [13:53] ali1234: it may be buggy, or failing [13:53] it's not buggy or failing [13:53] the problem is the motherboard is buggy [13:53] well that's different, then [13:54] it is still buggy :/ [13:54] bugs are bugs to an end user [13:54] and by buggy, i mean it requires workarounds [13:54] and it's not really the motherboard, it's the chipset [13:54] and it doesn't affect all ports [13:54] some are worse than others [13:54] so, don't buy shit hardware then [13:54] [13:55] haha [13:55] right right, only buy intel hardware, yeah? [13:55] ali1234: car analogy [13:55] I once had a Fiat Regatta [13:55] you could visibly watch it dissolve in the rain [13:55] it got through ignition modules like popey gets through trampolines [13:55] it was, basically, a shit car [13:56] shit design, shit construction [13:56] popey breaks trampolines? [13:56] I scrapped it and got a Volvo instead [13:56] :| [13:56] don't buy intel video cards though [13:57] unless you're stuck with onboard ones [13:57] they do cards? [13:57] :| [13:57] the last few years have been torrid for the onboard intel user [13:57]