[02:23] [Jono Bacon] Documenting Great Ubuntu Community Best Practice - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/18/documenting-great-ubuntu-community-best-practice/ [06:48] Morning earthlings [07:23] morning [07:24] meeting with the milkman today [07:25] lol [07:26] lol http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-10-18/ [07:27] morning all o/ [07:28] lo selinuxium [07:29] 'lo TheOpenSourcerer [07:32] Morning all [07:39] How can I tell if a particular kernel version is stable or testing at the moment? I hear 3.0.0.12 is available, and I assume it's stable because it's in 11.10... [07:40] also, good morning [07:41] http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/lfsbh/unitys_lens_just_got_a_whole_new_meaning_for_me/ [07:42] Morning [07:42] Morning all [07:45] AlanBell / popey: Just seen in my calendar that there's a meeting tonight. As I suspected, I'm working late this evening so am unlikely to be able to attend. [07:46] tonytiger: meeting is thursday [07:47] popey: oops [07:51] Good morning all [07:51] AlanBell: Ah, does it combine with the happy hour? [07:53] wow that is a serious issue, im moving to arch ;) [08:06] morning all [08:08] smittix: the nice thing about Arch is that you can still use Unity, but it's much more up-to-date than the old packages shipped with Ubuntu ;-) [08:10] popey: I bet he's using an Intel graphics chipset... [08:10] Unity runs better on my intel at home than on my ATI at work [08:10] drat, I meant to comment on that intel bug that oimon mentioned yesterday [08:12] Good morning eeps :) [08:12] eeps! [08:28] aloha [08:28] morning czajkowski [08:29] czajkowski: fancy someone forgetting your on the council, cheek ;) [08:30] heh [08:30] no comment [08:30] czajkowski: i commented lol [08:30] so did I [08:30] hee hee [08:30] kinda hard to ccopy n pste 7 people and forget one mind you [08:30] but how and ever moving on [08:37] Good morning all! [08:50] good morning everyone. [08:51] morning brobostigon [08:51] morning Pernig [08:52] my Dad is impressed with 11.10 [08:52] he somehow accidentally went into XFCE but he liked that too haha [08:52] and he managed to upgrade it himself [09:06] * daubers murders people who book him into meetings with outside customers and don't explain why he needs to be there [09:07] daubers: :-/ [09:09] Doing a fresh install of 11.10 onto my eeepc 1000 and it just took a scary photo of me [09:09] The thumbnail is then showed me looked somewhat broken. Wonder if it'll still be broken when I finally get to log in [09:10] daubers: sit in a corner and play angry birds [09:10] Or, chat on irc [09:14] wordfeud \o/ [09:22] * daubers needs stronger coffee today [09:26] Morning [09:26] popey: fraped? [09:27] bigcalm: maybe it's just your face? ;) [09:27] MooDoo: yup [09:28] popey: that will teach you for leaving you're desktop unlocked :D [09:28] i was sat at it [09:28] use blueproximity then you never need to remember to lock :) [09:28] turned around [09:28] Ah [09:28] oops :D [09:29] bah, only just got to work. thanks NXEA [09:31] The image is broken. Not sure if I can be bothered to re-re-install to replicate the issue [09:32] morning [09:32] morning [09:32] * bigcalm squeezes christel good morning :) [09:32] heya bigcalm <3 *hugs* [09:32] MooDoo! :) [09:33] MooDoo: have you gotten accustomed to waking up a lot at night again? : [09:33] :) [09:35] christel: no :( it's horrible :D lol [09:36] awww [09:36] hehe [09:36] wouldn;t change it for the world :) especially as she's started smiling :) [09:36] aww :D [09:36] superb! [09:43] interesting that i report a bug that receives no comments for many months, then mpt reports a duplicate and suddenly there's a big discussion on the bug report. it seems to be the way that launchpad works.. report bug then ping someone to look at it [09:44] sounds about right [09:44] not just launchpad, most bug trackers [09:46] * popey wonders whether the installfest happened on sunday [09:47] bug triaging isn't called drinking from the fire hose for nothing [09:48] howdy [09:48] how does things [09:49] most bugs are honestly, indications, if one guy reports a bug, there are no dupes and no affects me's then i'm generally more interested in looking at other bugs, it gets pushed to the back. if 10 different people post what is essentially the same bug, we know to look further === ^aDaM is now known as ^aDaM-Busy [10:03] morning all [10:03] * davmor2 prods czajkowski [10:03] meh [10:04] * davmor2 prods czajkowski till she snaps or smiles [10:04] morning davmor2 [10:04] morning MooDoo, how life mucka [10:05] davmor2: i'm in a computing funk :) lol [10:06] MooDoo: isn't that illegal.......oh funk :D [10:07] davmor2: see i don't even find that funny :S [10:08] Medic to isle 1 medic to isle 1 check MooDoo stats [10:08] lol ok that was a little bit funny [10:17] * bigcalm hugs popey [10:27] :D [10:29] popey: what made you finally come out? [10:32] popey came out? [10:32] hey biggie [10:32] Hello hoovie, having a good day? [10:33] turning around away from my pc [10:33] :D [10:33] And leaving yourself logged into Facebook [10:33] Tut tut [10:33] sort of bigcalm [10:33] how about you? [10:34] * hoover was a bit sick yesterday [10:34] hoover: the sun is shining and there is fresh coffee brewing downstairs. Work is nuts, but happy otherwise [10:34] my browser was closed [10:34] Oh dear, hope you're recovering [10:34] they opened my browser, found facebook and typed that in [10:34] Heh [10:34] i like it when people say that peoples facebook was hacked because they left it logged in [10:35] one of lifes little joys [10:35] yeah, i dont feel the need to delete the status update [10:36] MooDoo: instantrimshot.com [10:38] :) [10:41] MooDoo: welcome back [10:48] davmor2: no one here but us chickens [10:48] Bok bok [10:49] sounds good biggie [10:49] * buzz_ laughs at popey's facebook [10:50] * popey tickles buzz_ [10:50] MooDoo: click on the rooster one on that site I just gave you and play that a few times and I might believe you [10:50] * buzz_ bums popey ;-) [10:51] oh. i see im late. ^ seeing scrollback [10:53] yeah, join the quque [10:53] er [10:53] queue [10:54] popey: quque isn't that the noise the bird that pops out of the clock makes? === liam_ is now known as Guest85159 [10:59] yeh - but popey loves clocks. [10:59] buzz_: loves what? oh you said clocks....:S [11:00] :-) [11:10] buzz_: no popey loves watching raid arrays rebuild [11:19] davmor2: only on Drobo [11:19] * MooDoo is looking at drobos [11:19] MartijnVdS: No it popey he'll watch it build anywhere [11:20] MooDoo: The problem with drobos is that disks only work in Drobos [11:20] MooDoo: while I can put the disks from my Synology NAS in my PC and rescue the data if I want to [11:21] MartijnVdS: yeah i just read that, but i'm only looking....that isn't an issue for me to be honest [11:21] until it's your last copy of some important data ;) [11:21] MartijnVdS: i already have a netgear nas duo, just looking to replace it [11:21] * MartijnVdS has a Synology DS211 [11:21] jsut looking now :D [11:21] saving money for a 4-disk version [11:23] MartijnVdS: the ds411? [11:23] ecraven: MooDoo avoid drobos [11:23] MooDoo: there was a guy did a piece on a home built version that cost the same as the drobo without the hardrives in [11:23] MooDoo: yes [11:23] bah [11:23] MooDoo: avoid drobos [11:23] * gordonjcp wouldn't touch a drobo with someone else's stolen ten foot shitty stick [11:24] gordonjcp: 11 foot then? [11:24] MartijnVdS: the ds411 looks good [11:24] MooDoo: the software rocks as well [11:26] MartijnVdS: £235 isn't bad as well for a 4 bay [11:29] unless you go for the 411+ii with is "500 [11:29] tonytiger: yes, combining meeting and happy hour was the brilliantly thought out and executed plan :) [11:33] hehe [11:43] <3 magicicada [11:43] more people should know about that [11:46] what's wrong with drobos? [11:46] proprietary disk format [11:46] no way...sucks! [11:46] never heard that before [11:48] it only sucks if you're bothered about that kinda stuff [11:48] MooDoo: You will be when it smokes and you want to read the disk in a PC [11:49] penguin42: well yeah, just been told about that, looking into synology now [11:49] to be fair I suspect many of the RAID boxes are proprietary [11:49] * penguin42 discovers www.rentaraid.co.uk - I bet they find some fun stuff on returned boxes [11:50] penguin42: http://www.killsbugsdead.com/home.asp ? [11:51] MartijnVdS: Haha === HoaxKey is now known as Aminari === Aminari is now known as HoaxKey [12:23] after seeing the new xubuntu i think i might be able to upgrade the laptop from 10.04 gnome2 to 11.10 xubuntu without wifey really noticing [12:32] AlanBell: in which case I *may* be there. [12:33] that would be lovely [12:35] tonytiger: in pub or in irc? [12:36] It's in Farnborough isn't it? [12:41] hi there folks, i'm mounting an ntfs partition to use as storage under my profile, ( i symlink through to my windows profile for documents, development files videos etc.. but everything is executable. [12:41] just looking at fstab. [12:42] it's mounted with /dev/sda2/windowsntfs-3gdefaults,locale=en_IE.UTF-8 02 [12:42] hmm, where's the spaces in that.? [12:42] anyway, defaults seems to make evrything executable. [12:43] yes tonytiger [12:43] walking distance from my house [12:44] and also walking distance from both farnborough stations [12:45] Am I correct in thinking that xubuntu is basically ubuntu but with xfce instead of unity? Does it still come with the same packages? [12:45] chambo: yeah [12:45] So the same version of gcc will be in xubuntu 11.10 as ubuntu 11.10? [12:45] yes [12:45] is there a better way that matches up the permissions or is this just something that accessing the ntfs partition doesn't give you [12:46] Hmm I may reinstall with xubuntu then - I can't handle gnome3 or unity [12:46] popey: do you run the UK list? [12:47] NET||abuse: I can't remember whether that's just an issue with NTFS [12:48] chambo: Just install xubuntu-desktop [12:50] Joeb454: yes [12:51] penguin42, I would do that but i've screwed around with too much stuff already and wanted a fresh start :) [12:53] chambo: if you install xubuntu alone, then you will need to install ubuntuone and a couple of other packages, and the music player by default is gmusicbrowser instead of banshee [12:54] popey: I tried to send a message yesterday and got told I wasn't allowed to post to the list and the message had been automatically discarded, this happened for 2 email addresses [12:54] all packages are available, just that different defaults may have been chosen in some cases [12:54] NET||abuse, linux can't work with NTFS ACLs, so it applies a blanket fake permission set to the entire mountpoint [12:55] fake owners & perms [12:55] ahh, yeh, [12:55] i figured that was the case [12:56] Joeb454: gmail? [12:56] oimon, Still pulseaudio, zeitgeist and things like that are still there by default? [12:56] NET||abuse, same with FAT [12:57] chambo: yes, but applications that use that stuff might be different e.g. nautilus/thunar or gnome-terminal/xfce-terminal [12:57] try it out though. [12:58] i'm moving to London on Sunday,, wooohoo [12:58] oimon, I'll give it a go - as long as I get a stable desktop and can install all the same packages then I'm happy [12:58] i'm enjoying it. [12:59] apache question: i'm rewriting stuff from server1->server2 using rewriterule, but server2 shows server1 in the logs. for deny by IP etc, this causing a problem because all requests appear from server1 - can i change it so that server2 shows the src ip? [12:59] there was something in the release notes about a light build/config of KDE - not tried that yet; I'm using the full fat one on this ----> machine [13:00] oimon: there's a redirect flag in the logs i thin,, if memory serves [13:00] have to look up though [13:00] * AlanBell has 250 Ubuntu CDs \o/ [13:00] The transmission remote plugin for chromium is really great by the way (if you have a server in a cupboard somewhere) [13:00] It adds a "Download with transmission" to the contexual menu in chroium [13:01] ooh, that's neat, [13:01] AlanBell: How many people do you know who actually install from CD these days? It's rare - I had to do it with a couple of my old dads machines - but they were old enough to have had a fight during install anyway [13:02] penguin42, For some reason my desktop refuses to install from a USB stick so I have to use a CD :( [13:02] penguin42: people like them [13:02] AlanBell: It's good to have an up to date drinks mat [13:02] yes [13:02] cd is sooo slow [13:02] ooh, must upgrade the chicken CD [13:03] * AlanBell finds the Kubuntu box [13:03] they pecked the shine off? [13:04] penguin42: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/05/28/ubuntu-uk-loco-cds/ [13:05] they need an upgrade [13:06] well [13:06] I don't like Unity [13:06] but I really, *really* don't like Gnome 3 [13:06] gordonjcp, I agree which is why I'm about to install xfce [13:06] I just want gnome 2 back :'( [13:06] gordonjcp: Which is why I went KDE4 [13:07] chambo: xfce is pretty much the same [13:07] chambo: you can set up xfce4 to quite closely resemble gnome 2 [13:07] and very pretty nowadays [13:07] tbh Unity has started to grow on me a bit [13:07] especially after getting rid of the stupid global menu thing, and putting the window buttons back where they're supposed to be [13:08] now if I could figure out why I keep accidentally maximising windows and being unable to unmaximise them I'd be in business [13:08] the lenses are nice [13:08] gordonjcp, I spent so long turning things off (I hate hot points and things like that because I'm clumsy with a mouse) that I thought I should probably just go for a simpler window manager... [13:08] All I need is synapse or gnome-do and I'm happy [13:13] gnome-shell is just weird [13:13] and unusable without constantly switching from mouse to keyboard, if you're doing lots of mouse-related things [13:13] Inkscape is a *nightmare* in gnome-shell [13:14] xfce looks like gnome shell too [13:14] to welcome the defectors probably [13:16] Vive la revolution! ;) [13:17] popey: sorry, yes, gmail [13:17] /window 25 [13:18] oops [13:18] Joeb454: have you switched from googlemail to gmail or vice versa? [13:19] (this is the single gripe we get from people) [13:20] popey: nope, always been gmail. I tried from @joeb454.com as well (uses apps for domains), that didn't work either [13:20] you are not subscribed under that address [13:20] keep guessing :D [13:20] * popey knows who you're subscribed as [13:22] bug 735070 [13:22] Launchpad bug 735070 in software-center (Ubuntu) "When installing programs in Software Center, extra debconf window occasionally appears" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/735070 [13:22] seen this bug on a few pc, rather reduces the experience of using softwre center. anyone else get this? [13:23] trying to work out what causes it [13:23] popey: I'm sure I subscribed using my gmail address [13:23] nope :D [13:23] if not, it's my ubuntu address [13:23] Correct! [13:23] hmm, that'll probably be it then :P [13:24] they say the internet is making us dumb because we don't have to remember anything any more; now we can just ask popey [13:26] oimon: I get that occasionally. Dunno why though! :-( [13:26] i get it for every app i install, maybe multiple times per app :( [13:27] Likewise. It can be annoying at times! [13:27] i wonder how many votes a bug needs before it's noticed [13:28] s/noticed/assigned [13:28] hmm, having trouble with sleep resume on this laptop. close lid and not getting any resume :( [13:28] NET||abuse: which laptop? [13:28] More than 46, obviously! :-) [13:29] sony Vaio VGN FW21E [13:29] kinda old [13:29] Anyone else here old enough to remember BBN? http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/10/arpanets-coming-out-party-when-the-internet-first-took-center-stage.ars [13:29] wow, just saw the guy's ubuntu tattoo on http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/17/ubuntu-tat/ [13:30] shocked face :-o [13:30] yeah crazy fool:) [13:30] TheOpenSourcerer: It was after me but I remember reading of their 1st router [13:32] i think i had some other problem and i killed the acpi module,, how do i check if it's enabled. [13:32] They were the kings when I started in computer networking (X.25). Don't think Cisco existed then. [13:33] i have a real aversion to tattoos. speaking as someone who gets a bit miffed if the book i'm reading gets creased or phone gets scratched/non-shop condition. no stickers or anything on my [13:33] laptop [13:34] TheOpenSourcerer: Oh we had X.25 at Uni when I started there, never really got on with it - no way anyone could remember PAD numbers [13:36] I worked for Gandalf then ACC (http://www.beagle-ears.com/cgi-local/alumni.cgi?company+acc) during the Internet boom. ACC had some interesting chaps in it - rumour was Cisco's IoS was based on ACC code. [13:36] popey: don't suppose you know of a way to send from the @ubuntu.com addresses from an iDevice? [13:39] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/LocalizedImagesRollout we should do an en_GB respin of Ubuntu [13:39] TheOpenSourcerer: Oh I never heard of ACC - I remember seeing Gandalf's around the Uni [13:39] your @ubuntu mail goes to your primay launchpad address [13:39] AlanBell: yes, with the podcast auto subscribed in banshee :D [13:39] is it called the rubbish bin? [13:39] popey: yes, totally [13:40] penguin42: I was at Gandalf from '85 to 95 IIRC. Which Uni were you at? [13:40] TheOpenSourcerer: Manchester, UK, from 90-97 [13:40] Laney: http://www.ubuntu.com/tour/ [13:41] penguin42: Ahh that would have been serviced from the Warrington office. [13:41] popey: I got that, and I get the emails, but I just want to send from that address from my phone [13:41] We had lots of PACXs in Universities all over the UK. [13:41] TheOpenSourcerer: You mean there was something useful in Warrington? [13:41] TheOpenSourcerer: out of curiosity what is the size of you ~/.TB folder? [13:42] davmor2: du -sh says 9.0GB [13:42] davmor2: Is that good or bad? [13:42] TheOpenSourcerer: The UK really didn't want to move away from X.25 - we had horrible nasty X.25<->IP gateways for a while [13:42] Joeb454: what kind of phone? [13:42] * AlanBell has 18GB [13:43] X.25 was a good protocol IMHO. It was very reliable. [13:43] TheOpenSourcerer: Big ass folder, Mine is 1.7GB however in Evo the same info was 582MB [13:43] Joeb454: when you mail there is a field for "from", select your ubuntu address there [13:43] (assuming idevice) [13:43] TheOpenSourcerer: Evo also included Contacts that TB hasn't got [13:43] davmor2: Gloda increases the size considerably. [13:44] Gloda is the indexed database of *all* you emails. [13:44] makes searching them really cool though :-) [13:45] TheOpenSourcerer: That's great you can search to your hearts content well that or until you run out of HD ;) [13:45] I want my Lotus Notes search back [13:45] LOL [13:46] AlanBell: you really are trying to run out of HDD space aren't you :) [13:47] HDDs are cheap enough - I see 2TB disks for less than £50 [13:47] is there anything cheaper than disk space? [13:47] disk space with salt. [13:47] 1p cola bottles? [13:48] popey: I'll give it a try later [13:53] just in case people thought TheOpenSourcerer was mad - http://vr-zone.com/articles/singaporean-researchers-boost-hard-drive-capacity-six-fold-with-a-sprinkle-of-salt/13739.html [13:54] * AlanBell still thinks TheOpenSourcerer is mad [13:55] +12.8 [13:55] popey: °C? [13:58] V? [14:00] how hideously wrong do you think things are going to go if I set this laptop up to dual-boot but share /home? [14:00] gordonjcp: share with what? [14:01] * gordonjcp wonders what sort of turf war between Ubuntu and Arch this is going to kick off [14:01] gordonjcp: you mean install ubuntu then arch but mount ubuntu's /home in arch? [14:01] ormiret: Arch on one / partition, Ubuntu on another / partition, /boot and /home shared [14:01] MooDoo: well the opposite way round, but yes [14:02] pain i'd say :D [14:02] I already have arch installed [14:02] what are the differeces in ubuntu's package x and arch's? ie config files that are put into /home/.? [14:03] opening a can of worms i'd say [14:03] kgf/mm? [14:03] The system will be quite happy (so long as you get UIDs and GIDs to match) some apps might get confused if there is a version mismatch between the two. [14:03] A safer approach would be to put your docs somewhere else and link/mount them into /home/something [14:04] bah, /home/user/something [14:04] MooDoo: arch tends to bung app-specific stuff into ~/.config/ [14:05] ah! [14:05] only one way to find out then :D [14:05] yup [14:06] one would assume that even with two ~s I could just copy ~/.ssh/ across without any ill effects [14:06] right, here goes [14:07] for well behaved apps you can set an environment variable to change from ~/.config to whatever you want, I wouldn't want to be relying on all apps on a system being well behaved though. [14:08] did anyone manage to install spotify on oneiric? [14:08] i have it on my oneiric machine [14:08] two machines in fact [14:08] When trying to add the reposity as described in http://www.spotify.com/int/download/previews/ , I get some errors: [14:09] Like this: [14:09] Failed to fetch http://repository.spotify.com/dists/stable/InRelease Unable to find expected entry 'non-free/source/Sources' in Release file (Wrong sources.list entry or malformed file) [14:09] Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead. [14:09] I didn't get this on 11.04 [14:09] alan@mbp:~$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/spotify.list [14:09] deb http://repository.spotify.com/ stable non-free [14:09] thats my sources for spotify [14:09] is that the same as yours? [14:10] popey, I don't have a spotify.list file there actually [14:11] I added the deb http://repository.spotify.com stable non-free line through synaptic [14:11] oh well, looks like it's not going to happen [14:11] I have that line in /etc/apt/sources.list [14:11] The software centre in Oneiric doesn't work for me. If I try to install something, the button greys out for a moment and then returns to a clickable state, still reading "install". The package is not installed. Terminal output from the software centre as this happens at http://paste.ubuntu.com/712032/ [14:12] popey, how did you add the repository? [14:12] i manually added that file Halabund [14:12] popey, so I should add that file instead of putting it in /etc/apt/sources.list ? [14:13] it doesnt matter where you put it [14:13] have you put a "deb" and a "deb-src" line in, or just a "deb" line? [14:14] popey, synaptic automatically put both [14:14] maybe I should remove the deb-src ? [14:14] yes [14:16] right [14:18] whoop, xubuntu successfully installed [14:20] actually, change of plan [14:20] if I install Ubuntu with the normal installer, it'll have a fit when it realises there's already a user homedir in /home with my username [14:20] I may as well let it create /home on its own wee 8G partition then sort it out later [14:20] gordonjcp: It will? I never have that problem [14:21] I've reinstalled from scratch loads of times simply by wiping over my / partition and mounting my /home in the installer [14:21] gordonjcp: no, it wont [14:21] if you do the install right [14:21] just make sure when you mount /home in the installer to select the correct partition type and do not tick the format box [14:22] hang on Azelphur [14:22] that depends on whether /home is a separate partition or a directory on a partition [14:22] why make a simple thing complicated? [14:22] yea, I was assuming separate partitions [14:22] indeed [14:23] just do the install, choose "something else" and manually partition, and dont format [14:23] just let me make a new home and then copy .ssh and .purple from backups [14:23] the rest of that stuff is rubbish anyway [14:23] keeping it around across updates just causes problems [14:24] you especially don't want to keep .config, .gnome etc [14:24] all that is is just a bunch of clutter that serves no purpose [14:24] yes, this is a separate partition [14:24] e [14:25] *seperate [14:25] I can't even type, it's so cold in here [14:26] were I not required to actually be in the workshop, I would have cleared off home by now [14:26] since I have better coffee, some hifi equipment, and crucially *working heating* [14:32] I have to say that installing 11.10 onto the eeepc1000w has breathed new life into the machine [14:32] Well done everybody [14:33] thank you bigcalm it was all down to me ;) [14:34] bigcalm: I must say, even running from a USB stick it seems pretty quick on this Compaq nc4200 [14:34] 1G of RAM probably doesn't hurt [14:35] I have a spare hard disk; maybe I should nuke it and install only Ubuntu on this machine [14:37] 11.10 on my Eee 1008HA runs like a dog :-( - It takes "for ever" to boot so it does. [14:37] TheOpenSourcerer, same on my eee 1000 [14:38] netbooks are dead [14:38] same on my 1001ha [14:38] it would be interesting to find out why [14:39]