[02:23] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Documenting Great Ubuntu Community Best Practice - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/18/documenting-great-ubuntu-community-best-practice/
[06:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings
[07:23] <AlanBell> morning
[07:24] <AlanBell> meeting with the milkman today
[07:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[07:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-10-18/
[07:27] <selinuxium> morning all  o/
[07:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> lo selinuxium
[07:29] <selinuxium> 'lo TheOpenSourcerer
[07:32] <diplo> Morning all
[07:39] <dwatkins> How can I tell if a particular kernel version is stable or testing at the moment? I hear 3.0.0.12 is available, and I assume it's stable because it's in 11.10...
[07:40] <dwatkins> also, good morning
[07:41] <popey> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/lfsbh/unitys_lens_just_got_a_whole_new_meaning_for_me/
[07:42] <daubers> Morning
[07:42] <smittix> Morning all
[07:45] <tonytiger> AlanBell / popey: Just seen in my calendar that there's a meeting tonight. As I suspected, I'm working late this evening so am unlikely to be able to attend.
[07:46] <AlanBell> tonytiger: meeting is thursday
[07:47] <dwatkins> popey: oops
[07:51] <hoover> Good morning all
[07:51] <tonytiger> AlanBell: Ah, does it combine with the happy hour?
[07:53] <smittix> wow that is a serious issue, im moving to arch ;)
[08:06] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:08] <gordonjcp> smittix: the nice thing about Arch is that you can still use Unity, but it's much more up-to-date than the old packages shipped with Ubuntu ;-)
[08:10] <gordonjcp> popey: I bet he's using an Intel graphics chipset...
[08:10] <MartijnVdS> Unity runs better on my intel at home than on my ATI at work
[08:10] <gordonjcp> drat, I meant to comment on that intel bug that oimon mentioned yesterday
[08:12] <bigcalm> Good morning eeps :)
[08:12] <MartijnVdS> eeps!
[08:28] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:28] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski
[08:29] <MooDoo> czajkowski: fancy someone forgetting your on the council, cheek ;)
[08:30] <czajkowski> heh
[08:30] <czajkowski> no comment
[08:30] <MooDoo> czajkowski: i commented lol
[08:30] <czajkowski> so did I
[08:30] <MooDoo> hee hee
[08:30] <czajkowski> kinda hard to ccopy n pste 7 people and forget one mind you
[08:30] <czajkowski> but how and ever moving on
[08:37] <JamesTait> Good morning all!
[08:50] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:51] <Pernig> morning brobostigon
[08:51] <brobostigon> morning Pernig
[08:52] <Pernig> my Dad is impressed with 11.10
[08:52] <Pernig> he somehow accidentally went into XFCE but he liked that too haha
[08:52] <Pernig> and he managed to upgrade it himself
[09:06]  * daubers murders people who book him into meetings with outside customers and don't explain why he needs to be there
[09:07] <gordonjcp> daubers: :-/
[09:09] <bigcalm> Doing a fresh install of 11.10 onto my eeepc 1000 and it just took a scary photo of me
[09:09] <bigcalm> The thumbnail is then showed me looked somewhat broken. Wonder if it'll still be broken when I finally get to log in
[09:10] <bigcalm> daubers: sit in a corner and play angry birds
[09:10] <bigcalm> Or, chat on irc
[09:14] <MartijnVdS> wordfeud \o/
[09:22]  * daubers needs stronger coffee today
[09:26] <andyc> Morning
[09:26] <MooDoo> popey: fraped?
[09:27] <MooDoo> bigcalm: maybe it's just your face? ;)
[09:27] <popey> MooDoo: yup
[09:28] <MooDoo> popey: that will teach you for leaving you're desktop unlocked :D
[09:28] <popey> i was sat at it
[09:28] <andyc> use blueproximity then you never need to remember to lock :)
[09:28] <popey> turned around
[09:28] <andyc> Ah
[09:28] <MooDoo> oops :D
[09:29] <oimon> bah, only just got to work. thanks NXEA
[09:31] <bigcalm> The image is broken. Not sure if I can be bothered to re-re-install to replicate the issue
[09:32] <christel> morning
[09:32] <MooDoo> morning
[09:32]  * bigcalm squeezes christel good morning :)
[09:32] <christel> heya bigcalm <3 *hugs*
[09:32] <christel> MooDoo! :)
[09:33] <christel> MooDoo: have you gotten accustomed to waking up a lot at night again? :
[09:33] <christel> :)
[09:35] <MooDoo> christel: no :( it's horrible :D lol
[09:36] <christel> awww
[09:36] <christel> hehe
[09:36] <MooDoo> wouldn;t change it for the world :) especially as she's started smiling :)
[09:36] <christel> aww :D
[09:36] <christel> superb!
[09:43] <oimon> interesting that i report a bug that receives no comments for many months, then mpt reports a duplicate and suddenly there's a big discussion on the bug report. it seems to be the way that launchpad works.. report bug then ping someone to look at it
[09:44] <popey> sounds about right
[09:44] <popey> not just launchpad, most bug trackers
[09:46]  * popey wonders whether the installfest happened on sunday
[09:47] <gord> bug triaging isn't called drinking from the fire hose for nothing
[09:48] <andylockran> howdy
[09:48] <andylockran> how does things
[09:49] <gord> most bugs are honestly, indications, if one guy reports a bug, there are no dupes and no affects me's then i'm generally more interested in looking at other bugs, it gets pushed to the back. if 10 different people post what is essentially the same bug, we know to look further
[10:03] <davmor2> morning all
[10:03]  * davmor2 prods czajkowski 
[10:03] <czajkowski> meh
[10:04]  * davmor2 prods czajkowski till she snaps or smiles
[10:04] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[10:04] <davmor2> morning MooDoo, how life mucka
[10:05] <MooDoo> davmor2: i'm in a computing funk :) lol
[10:06] <davmor2> MooDoo: isn't that illegal.......oh funk :D
[10:07] <MooDoo> davmor2: see i don't even find that funny :S
[10:08] <davmor2> Medic to isle 1 medic to isle 1 check MooDoo stats
[10:08] <MooDoo> lol ok that was a little bit funny
[10:17]  * bigcalm hugs popey
[10:27] <popey> :D
[10:29] <bigcalm> popey: what made you finally come out?
[10:32] <hoover> popey came out?
[10:32] <hoover> hey biggie
[10:32] <bigcalm> Hello hoovie, having a good day?
[10:33] <popey> turning around away from my pc
[10:33] <bigcalm> :D
[10:33] <bigcalm> And leaving yourself logged into Facebook
[10:33] <bigcalm> Tut tut
[10:33] <hoover> sort of bigcalm
[10:33] <hoover> how about you?
[10:34]  * hoover was a bit sick yesterday
[10:34] <bigcalm> hoover: the sun is shining and there is fresh coffee brewing downstairs. Work is nuts, but happy otherwise
[10:34] <popey> my browser was closed
[10:34] <bigcalm> Oh dear, hope you're recovering
[10:34] <popey> they opened my browser, found facebook and typed that in
[10:34] <bigcalm> Heh
[10:34] <gord> i like it when people say that peoples facebook was hacked because they left it logged in
[10:35] <gord> one of lifes little joys
[10:35] <popey> yeah, i dont feel the need to delete the status update
[10:36] <davmor2> MooDoo: instantrimshot.com
[10:38] <MooDoo> :)
[10:41] <davmor2> MooDoo: welcome back
[10:48] <MooDoo> davmor2: no one here but us chickens
[10:48] <bigcalm> Bok bok
[10:49] <hoover> sounds good biggie
[10:49]  * buzz_ laughs at popey's facebook
[10:50]  * popey tickles buzz_ 
[10:50] <davmor2> MooDoo: click on the rooster one on that site I just gave you and play that a few times and I might believe you
[10:50]  * buzz_ bums popey ;-)
[10:51] <buzz_> oh. i see im late.  ^ seeing scrollback
[10:53] <popey> yeah, join the quque
[10:53] <popey> er
[10:53] <popey> queue
[10:54] <davmor2> popey: quque isn't that the noise the bird that pops out of the clock makes?
[10:59] <buzz_> yeh - but popey loves clocks.
[10:59] <MooDoo> buzz_: loves what?   oh you said clocks....:S
[11:00] <buzz_> :-)
[11:10] <davmor2> buzz_: no popey loves watching raid arrays rebuild
[11:19] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: only on Drobo
[11:19]  * MooDoo is looking at drobos
[11:19] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: No it popey he'll watch it build anywhere
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: The problem with drobos is that disks only work in Drobos
[11:20] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: while I can put the disks from my Synology NAS in my PC and rescue the data if I want to
[11:21] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: yeah i just read that, but i'm only looking....that isn't an issue for me to be honest
[11:21] <MartijnVdS> until it's your last copy of some important data ;)
[11:21] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: i already have a netgear nas duo, just looking to replace it
[11:21]  * MartijnVdS has a Synology DS211
[11:21] <MooDoo> jsut looking now :D
[11:21] <MartijnVdS> saving money for a 4-disk version
[11:23] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: the ds411?
[11:23] <gordonjcp> ecraven: MooDoo avoid drobos
[11:23] <davmor2> MooDoo: there was a guy did a piece on a home built version that cost the same as the drobo without the hardrives in
[11:23] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: yes
[11:23] <gordonjcp> bah
[11:23] <gordonjcp> MooDoo: avoid drobos
[11:23]  * gordonjcp wouldn't touch a drobo with someone else's stolen ten foot shitty stick
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: 11 foot then?
[11:24] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: the ds411 looks good
[11:24] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: the software rocks as well
[11:26] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: £235 isn't bad as well for a 4 bay
[11:29] <MooDoo> unless you go for the 411+ii with is "500
[11:29] <AlanBell> tonytiger: yes, combining meeting and happy hour was the brilliantly thought out and executed plan :)
[11:33] <christel> hehe
[11:43] <gord> <3 magicicada
[11:43] <gord> more people should know about that
[11:46] <oimon> what's wrong with drobos?
[11:46] <popey> proprietary disk format
[11:46] <oimon> no way...sucks!
[11:46] <oimon> never heard that before
[11:48] <MooDoo> it only sucks if you're bothered about that kinda stuff
[11:48] <penguin42> MooDoo: You will be when it smokes and you want to read the disk in a PC
[11:49] <MooDoo> penguin42: well yeah, just been told about that, looking into synology now
[11:49] <penguin42> to be fair I suspect many of the RAID boxes are proprietary
[11:49]  * penguin42 discovers www.rentaraid.co.uk - I bet they find some fun stuff on returned boxes
[11:50] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://www.killsbugsdead.com/home.asp ?
[11:51] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Haha
[12:23] <oimon> after seeing the new xubuntu i think i might be able to upgrade the laptop from 10.04 gnome2 to 11.10 xubuntu without wifey really noticing
[12:32] <tonytiger> AlanBell: in which case I *may* be there.
[12:33] <AlanBell> that would be lovely
[12:35] <popey> tonytiger: in pub or in irc?
[12:36] <tonytiger> It's in Farnborough isn't it?
[12:41] <NET||abuse> hi there folks, i'm mounting an ntfs partition to use as storage under my profile, ( i symlink through to my windows profile for documents, development files videos etc.. but everything is executable.
[12:41] <NET||abuse> just looking at fstab.
[12:42] <NET||abuse> it's mounted with /dev/sda2/windowsntfs-3gdefaults,locale=en_IE.UTF-8 02
[12:42] <NET||abuse> hmm, where's the spaces in that.?
[12:42] <NET||abuse> anyway, defaults seems to make evrything executable.
[12:43] <popey> yes tonytiger
[12:43] <popey> walking distance from my house
[12:44] <popey> and also walking distance from both farnborough stations
[12:45] <chambo> Am I correct in thinking that xubuntu is basically ubuntu but with xfce instead of unity?  Does it still come with the same packages?
[12:45] <MooDoo> chambo: yeah
[12:45] <chambo> So the same version of gcc will be in xubuntu 11.10 as ubuntu 11.10?
[12:45] <popey> yes
[12:45] <NET||abuse> is there a better way that matches up the permissions or is this just something that accessing the ntfs partition doesn't give you
[12:46] <chambo> Hmm I may reinstall with xubuntu then - I can't handle gnome3 or unity
[12:46] <Joeb454> popey: do you run the UK list?
[12:47] <Joeb454> NET||abuse: I can't remember whether that's just an issue with NTFS
[12:48] <penguin42> chambo: Just install xubuntu-desktop
[12:50] <popey> Joeb454: yes
[12:51] <chambo> penguin42, I would do that but i've screwed around with too much stuff already and wanted a fresh start :)
[12:53] <oimon> chambo: if you install xubuntu alone, then you will need to install ubuntuone and a couple of other packages, and the music player by default is gmusicbrowser instead of banshee
[12:54] <Joeb454> popey: I tried to send a message yesterday and got told I wasn't allowed to post to the list and the message had been automatically discarded, this happened for 2 email addresses
[12:54] <oimon> all packages are available, just that different defaults may have been chosen in some cases
[12:54] <directhex> NET||abuse, linux can't work with NTFS ACLs, so it applies a blanket fake permission set to the entire mountpoint
[12:55] <directhex> fake owners & perms
[12:55] <NET||abuse> ahh, yeh,
[12:55] <NET||abuse> i figured that was the case
[12:56] <popey> Joeb454: gmail?
[12:56] <chambo> oimon, Still pulseaudio, zeitgeist and things like that are still there by default?
[12:56] <directhex> NET||abuse, same with FAT
[12:57] <oimon> chambo: yes, but applications that use that stuff might be different e.g. nautilus/thunar or gnome-terminal/xfce-terminal
[12:57] <oimon> try it out though.
[12:58] <NET||abuse> i'm moving to London on Sunday,, wooohoo
[12:58] <chambo> oimon, I'll give it a go - as long as I get a stable desktop and can install all the same packages then I'm happy
[12:58] <oimon> i'm enjoying it.
[12:59] <oimon> apache question: i'm rewriting stuff from server1->server2 using rewriterule, but server2 shows server1 in the logs. for deny by IP etc, this causing a problem because all requests appear from server1  - can i change it so that server2 shows the src ip?
[12:59] <penguin42> there was something in the release notes about a light build/config of KDE - not tried that yet; I'm using the full fat one on this ----> machine
[13:00] <NET||abuse> oimon: there's a redirect flag in the logs i thin,, if memory serves
[13:00] <NET||abuse> have to look up though
[13:00]  * AlanBell has 250 Ubuntu CDs \o/
[13:00] <chambo> The transmission remote plugin for chromium is really great by the way (if you have a server in a cupboard somewhere)
[13:00] <chambo> It adds a "Download with transmission" to the contexual menu in chroium
[13:01] <NET||abuse> ooh, that's neat,
[13:01] <penguin42> AlanBell: How many people do you know who actually install from CD these days? It's rare - I had to do it with a couple of my old dads machines - but they were old enough to have had a fight during install anyway
[13:02] <chambo> penguin42, For some reason my desktop refuses to install from a USB stick so I have to use a CD :(
[13:02] <AlanBell> penguin42: people like them
[13:02] <penguin42> AlanBell: It's good to have an up to date drinks mat
[13:02] <AlanBell> yes
[13:02] <oimon> cd is sooo slow
[13:02] <AlanBell> ooh, must upgrade the chicken CD
[13:03]  * AlanBell finds the Kubuntu box
[13:03] <penguin42> they pecked the shine off?
[13:04] <AlanBell> penguin42: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/05/28/ubuntu-uk-loco-cds/
[13:05] <AlanBell> they need an upgrade
[13:06] <gordonjcp> well
[13:06] <gordonjcp> I don't like Unity
[13:06] <gordonjcp> but I really, *really* don't like Gnome 3
[13:06] <chambo> gordonjcp, I agree which is why I'm about to install xfce
[13:06] <chambo> I just want gnome 2 back :'(
[13:06] <penguin42> gordonjcp: Which is why I went KDE4
[13:07] <oimon> chambo: xfce is pretty much the same
[13:07] <gordonjcp> chambo: you can set up xfce4 to quite closely resemble gnome 2
[13:07] <oimon> and very pretty nowadays
[13:07] <gordonjcp> tbh Unity has started to grow on me a bit
[13:07] <gordonjcp> especially after getting rid of the stupid global menu thing, and putting the window buttons back where they're supposed to be
[13:08] <gordonjcp> now if I could figure out why I keep accidentally maximising windows and being unable to unmaximise them I'd be in business
[13:08] <gordonjcp> the lenses are nice
[13:08] <chambo> gordonjcp, I spent so long turning things off (I hate hot points and things like that because I'm clumsy with a mouse) that I thought I should probably just go for a simpler window manager...
[13:08] <chambo> All I need is synapse or gnome-do and I'm happy
[13:13] <gordonjcp> gnome-shell is just weird
[13:13] <gordonjcp> and unusable without constantly switching from mouse to keyboard, if you're doing lots of mouse-related things
[13:13] <gordonjcp> Inkscape is a *nightmare* in gnome-shell
[13:14] <oimon> xfce looks like gnome shell too
[13:14] <oimon> to welcome the defectors probably
[13:16] <dwatkins> Vive la revolution! ;)
[13:17] <Joeb454> popey: sorry, yes, gmail
[13:17] <AlanBell>  /window 25
[13:18] <AlanBell> oops
[13:18] <popey> Joeb454: have you switched from googlemail to gmail or vice versa?
[13:19] <popey> (this is the single gripe we get from people)
[13:20] <Joeb454> popey: nope, always been gmail. I tried from @joeb454.com as well (uses apps for domains), that didn't work either
[13:20] <popey> you are not subscribed under that address
[13:20] <popey> keep guessing :D
[13:20]  * popey knows who you're subscribed as
[13:22] <oimon> bug 735070
[13:22] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 735070 in software-center (Ubuntu) "When installing programs in Software Center, extra debconf window occasionally appears" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/735070
[13:22] <oimon> seen this bug on a few pc, rather reduces the experience of using softwre center. anyone else get this?
[13:23] <oimon> trying to work out what causes it
[13:23] <Joeb454> popey: I'm sure I subscribed using my gmail address
[13:23] <popey> nope :D
[13:23] <Joeb454> if not, it's my ubuntu address
[13:23] <popey> Correct!
[13:23] <Joeb454> hmm, that'll probably be it then :P
[13:24] <penguin42> they say the internet is making us dumb because we don't have to remember anything any more; now we can just ask popey
[13:26] <tubadaz> oimon: I get that occasionally. Dunno why though! :-(
[13:26] <oimon> i get it for every app i install, maybe multiple times per app :(
[13:27] <tubadaz> Likewise. It can be annoying at times!
[13:27] <oimon> i wonder how many votes a bug needs before it's noticed
[13:28] <oimon> s/noticed/assigned
[13:28] <NET||abuse> hmm, having trouble with sleep resume on this laptop. close lid and not getting any resume :(
[13:28] <popey> NET||abuse: which laptop?
[13:28] <tubadaz> More than 46, obviously! :-)
[13:29] <NET||abuse> sony Vaio VGN  FW21E
[13:29] <NET||abuse> kinda old
[13:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone else here old enough to remember BBN? http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/10/arpanets-coming-out-party-when-the-internet-first-took-center-stage.ars
[13:29] <oimon> wow, just saw the guy's ubuntu tattoo on http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/17/ubuntu-tat/
[13:30] <oimon> shocked face :-o
[13:30] <MooDoo> yeah crazy fool:)
[13:30] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: It was after me but I remember reading of their 1st router
[13:32] <NET||abuse> i think i had some other problem and i killed the acpi module,, how do i check if it's enabled.
[13:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> They were the kings when I started in computer networking (X.25). Don't think Cisco existed then.
[13:33] <oimon> i have a real aversion to tattoos. speaking as someone who gets a bit miffed if the book i'm reading gets creased or phone gets scratched/non-shop condition. no stickers or anything on my
[13:33] <oimon> laptop
[13:34] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: Oh we had X.25 at Uni when I started there, never really got on with it - no way anyone could remember PAD numbers
[13:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> I worked for Gandalf then ACC (http://www.beagle-ears.com/cgi-local/alumni.cgi?company+acc) during the Internet boom. ACC had some interesting chaps in it - rumour was Cisco's IoS was based on ACC code.
[13:36] <Joeb454> popey: don't suppose you know of a way to send from the @ubuntu.com addresses from an iDevice?
[13:39] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/LocalizedImagesRollout we should do an en_GB respin of Ubuntu
[13:39] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: Oh I never heard of ACC - I remember seeing Gandalf's around the Uni
[13:39] <popey> your @ubuntu mail goes to your primay launchpad address
[13:39] <popey> AlanBell: yes, with the podcast auto subscribed in banshee :D
[13:39] <Laney> is it called the rubbish bin?
[13:39] <AlanBell> popey: yes, totally
[13:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> penguin42: I was at Gandalf from '85 to 95 IIRC. Which Uni were you at?
[13:40] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: Manchester, UK, from 90-97
[13:40] <AlanBell> Laney: http://www.ubuntu.com/tour/
[13:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> penguin42: Ahh that would have been serviced from the Warrington office.
[13:41] <Joeb454> popey: I got that, and I get the emails, but I just want to send from that address from my phone
[13:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> We had lots of PACXs in Universities all over the UK.
[13:41] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: You mean there was something useful in Warrington?
[13:41] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: out of curiosity what is the size of you ~/.TB folder?
[13:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: du -sh says 9.0GB
[13:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Is that good or bad?
[13:42] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: The UK really didn't want to move away from X.25 - we had horrible nasty X.25<->IP gateways for a while
[13:42] <popey> Joeb454: what kind of phone?
[13:42]  * AlanBell has 18GB
[13:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> X.25 was a good protocol IMHO. It was very reliable.
[13:43] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Big ass folder, Mine is 1.7GB however in Evo the same info was 582MB
[13:43] <popey> Joeb454: when you mail there is a field for "from", select your ubuntu address there
[13:43] <popey> (assuming idevice)
[13:43] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Evo also included Contacts that TB hasn't got
[13:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Gloda increases the size considerably.
[13:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> Gloda is the indexed database of *all* you emails.
[13:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> makes searching them really cool though :-)
[13:45] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: That's great you can search to your hearts content well that or until you run out of HD ;)
[13:45] <AlanBell> I want my Lotus Notes search back
[13:45] <oimon> LOL
[13:46] <davmor2> AlanBell: you really are trying to run out of HDD space aren't you :)
[13:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> HDDs are cheap enough - I see 2TB disks for less than £50
[13:47] <AlanBell> is there anything cheaper than disk space?
[13:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> disk space with salt.
[13:47] <oimon> 1p cola bottles?
[13:48] <Joeb454> popey: I'll give it a try later
[13:53] <MooDoo> just in case people thought TheOpenSourcerer was mad - http://vr-zone.com/articles/singaporean-researchers-boost-hard-drive-capacity-six-fold-with-a-sprinkle-of-salt/13739.html
[13:54]  * AlanBell still thinks TheOpenSourcerer is mad
[13:55] <popey> +12.8
[13:55] <MartijnVdS> popey: °C?
[13:58] <penguin42> V?
[14:00] <gordonjcp> how hideously wrong do you think things are going to go if I set this laptop up to dual-boot but share /home?
[14:00] <ormiret> gordonjcp: share with what?
[14:01]  * gordonjcp wonders what sort of turf war between Ubuntu and Arch this is going to kick off
[14:01] <MooDoo> gordonjcp: you mean install ubuntu then arch but mount ubuntu's /home in arch?
[14:01] <gordonjcp> ormiret: Arch on one / partition, Ubuntu on another /  partition, /boot and /home shared
[14:01] <gordonjcp> MooDoo: well the opposite way round, but yes
[14:02] <MooDoo> pain i'd say :D
[14:02] <gordonjcp> I already have arch installed
[14:02] <MooDoo> what are the differeces in ubuntu's package x and arch's?  ie config files that are put into /home/.<aaplication>?
[14:03] <MooDoo> opening a can of worms i'd say
[14:03] <MartijnVdS> kgf/mm?
[14:03] <ormiret> The system will be quite happy (so long as you get UIDs and GIDs to match) some apps might get confused if there is a version mismatch between the two.
[14:03] <ormiret> A safer approach would be to put your docs somewhere else and link/mount them into /home/something
[14:04] <ormiret> bah, /home/user/something
[14:04] <gordonjcp> MooDoo: arch tends to bung app-specific stuff into ~/.config/
[14:05] <MooDoo> ah!
[14:05] <MooDoo> only one way to find out then :D
[14:05] <gordonjcp> yup
[14:06] <gordonjcp> one would assume that even with two ~s I could just copy ~/.ssh/ across without any ill effects
[14:06] <gordonjcp> right, here goes
[14:07] <ormiret> for well behaved apps you can set an environment variable to change from ~/.config to whatever you want, I wouldn't want to be relying on all apps on a system being well behaved though.
[14:08] <Halabund> did anyone manage to install spotify on oneiric?
[14:08] <popey> i have it on my oneiric machine
[14:08] <popey> two machines in fact
[14:08] <Halabund> When trying to add the reposity as described in http://www.spotify.com/int/download/previews/ , I get some errors:
[14:09] <Halabund> Like this:
[14:09] <Halabund> Failed to fetch http://repository.spotify.com/dists/stable/InRelease  Unable to find expected entry 'non-free/source/Sources' in Release file (Wrong sources.list entry or malformed file)
[14:09] <Halabund> Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
[14:09] <Halabund> I didn't get this on 11.04
[14:09] <popey> alan@mbp:~$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/spotify.list
[14:09] <popey> deb http://repository.spotify.com/ stable non-free
[14:09] <popey> thats my sources for spotify
[14:09] <popey> is that the same as yours?
[14:10] <Halabund> popey, I don't have a spotify.list file there actually
[14:11] <Halabund> I added the deb http://repository.spotify.com stable non-free line through synaptic
[14:11] <gordonjcp> oh well, looks like it's not going to happen
[14:11] <Halabund> I have that line in /etc/apt/sources.list
[14:11] <Darael> The software centre in Oneiric doesn't work for me.  If I try to install something, the button greys out for a moment and then returns to a clickable state, still reading "install".  The package is not installed.  Terminal output from the software centre as this happens at http://paste.ubuntu.com/712032/
[14:12] <Halabund> popey, how did you add the repository?
[14:12] <popey> i manually added that file Halabund
[14:12] <Halabund> popey, so I should add that file instead of putting it in /etc/apt/sources.list ?
[14:13] <popey> it doesnt matter where you put it
[14:13] <popey> have you put a "deb" and a "deb-src" line in, or just a "deb" line?
[14:14] <Halabund> popey, synaptic automatically put both
[14:14] <Halabund> maybe I should remove the deb-src ?
[14:14] <popey> yes
[14:16] <gordonjcp> right
[14:18] <chambo_> whoop, xubuntu successfully installed
[14:20] <gordonjcp> actually, change of plan
[14:20] <gordonjcp> if I install Ubuntu with the normal installer, it'll have a fit when it realises there's already a user homedir in /home with my username
[14:20] <gordonjcp> I may as well let it create /home on its own wee 8G partition then sort it out later
[14:20] <Azelphur> gordonjcp: It will? I never have that problem
[14:21] <Azelphur> I've reinstalled from scratch loads of times simply by wiping over my / partition and mounting my /home in the installer
[14:21] <popey> gordonjcp: no, it wont
[14:21] <popey> if you do the install right
[14:21] <Azelphur> just make sure when you mount /home in the installer to select the correct partition type and do not tick the format box
[14:22] <popey> hang on Azelphur
[14:22] <popey> that depends on whether /home is a separate partition or a directory on a partition
[14:22] <ali1234> why make a simple thing complicated?
[14:22] <Azelphur> yea, I was assuming separate partitions
[14:22] <popey> indeed
[14:23] <popey> just do the install, choose "something else" and manually partition, and dont format
[14:23] <ali1234> just let me make a new home and then copy .ssh and .purple from backups
[14:23] <ali1234> the rest of that stuff is rubbish anyway
[14:23] <ali1234> keeping it around across updates just causes problems
[14:24] <ali1234> you especially don't want to keep .config, .gnome etc
[14:24] <ali1234> all that is is just a bunch of clutter that serves no purpose
[14:24] <gordonjcp> yes, this is a separate partition
[14:24] <AlanBell> e
[14:25] <gordonjcp> *seperate
[14:25] <gordonjcp> I can't even type, it's so cold in here
[14:26] <gordonjcp> were I not required to actually be in the workshop, I would have cleared off home by now
[14:26] <gordonjcp> since I have better coffee, some hifi equipment, and crucially *working heating*
[14:32] <bigcalm> I have to say that installing 11.10 onto the eeepc1000w has breathed new life into the machine
[14:32] <bigcalm> Well done everybody
[14:33] <MooDoo> thank you bigcalm it was all down to me ;)
[14:34] <gordonjcp> bigcalm: I must say, even running from a USB stick it seems pretty quick on this Compaq nc4200
[14:34] <gordonjcp> 1G of RAM probably doesn't hurt
[14:35] <gordonjcp> I have a spare hard disk; maybe I should nuke it and install only Ubuntu on this machine
[14:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> 11.10 on my Eee 1008HA runs like a dog :-( - It takes "for ever" to boot so it does.
[14:37] <chambo> TheOpenSourcerer, same on my eee 1000
[14:38] <directhex> netbooks are dead
[14:38] <penguin42> same on my 1001ha
[14:38] <penguin42> it would be interesting to find out why
[14:39] <oimon> unity 2d vs 3d ?
[14:41] <gordonjcp> oh, and the installer crashed
[14:41] <gordonjcp> lovely
[14:41] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: i put an SSD in my 1008HA, flies now
[14:41] <popey> also added more RAM
[14:41] <popey> it's a natty little machine now, which reminds me I might upgraded it tonight
[14:42] <bigcalm> I wonder if my eeepc1000 has all the ram it can take
[14:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> be interesting to compare boot times on that popey
[14:42] <popey> yeah
[14:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Although mine previously had 10.10, not 11.04
[14:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> I've only one machine on 11 anything and it's my netbook.
[14:43] <chambo> I was going to upgrade the SSD/RAM in my eee but then I saw the lenovo x121e and decided to save up for that instead
[14:43] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: you using unity 3d or 2d on it?
[14:43] <penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: All my machines are slower booting 11.10 - the netbook and my laptop particularly so
[14:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> how can I tell?
[14:43] <penguin42> popey: They seem slower even to get to login
[14:44] <chambo> penguin42, I saw an article on phoronix confirming that 11.10 has slower boot times
[14:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> I seem to spend ages looking at the white/orange dots... i.e. before login.
[14:44] <chambo> With nice bootcharts too
[14:44] <popey> penguin42: "they"?
[14:44] <penguin42> popey: My laptop and netbook
[14:45] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: is compiz running?
[14:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Give me 10 minutes - I need to turn it on again. ;-)
[14:45] <popey> heh
[14:47]  * TheOpenSourcerer is very pleased his new mouse. The Logitech Performance MX - I love the free-spinning wheel - want to go "wheeeeee" all the time :-)
[14:47] <Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: I have a trackball, free spinning fun :D
[14:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> I now have a login prompt... I powered on at 15:45:25
[14:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> Now I have the main screen/desktop
[14:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ah &^%^$(*&(*(... but a dead mouse.
[14:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> FSCK sake.
[14:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> And you can't do Super+S anymore. What's the keyboard command to bring down the login/out/shutdown menu
[14:51] <gordonjcp> well that's pretty good
[14:51] <gordonjcp> five minutes from starting the installer to it crashing because it can't download flash
[14:51] <AlanBell>  TheOpenSourcerer pressing the power button might bring it up, also F10 to get focus in the panel might work
[14:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> What is it doing? The mouse does move - eventually - but the hdd is being totally thrashed...
[14:51] <gordonjcp> which I didn't want anyway
[14:51] <gordonjcp> and Ubuntu has infected my laptop with grub
[14:51] <gordonjcp> now *nothing* boots on it
[14:52] <gord> i used to have that mouse :) but everything logitech i get falls apart within a year =\ so it died a long time ago
[14:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> gord: I had an MX1000 before this one - lasted about 6 years and was a great mouse IMHO.
[14:53] <gordonjcp> is there a way to install Ubuntu without letting it vandalise the other OSes on the machine?
[14:53] <gordonjcp> or is it just expecting to be the only OS ever?
[14:53] <gord> TheOpenSourcerer, perfectly acceptable that i have just had a bad run - shame, logitech make some nice stuff, but yeah everything i own from logitech has either stopped working or had wireless issues
[14:54] <AlanBell> it asks on bootup if you want to install it alongside your other os
[14:54] <oimon> gordonjcp: i think it's the most other-OS friendly OS there is...but you still need to be careful
[14:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm - hdd still being thrashed. Need to power off I think.
[14:54] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: it didn't
[14:54] <oimon> everyone's in a moany mood today  :\
[14:54] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: it asked if I wanted to wipe the disk and install ubuntu, or "something else"
[14:55]  * TheOpenSourcerer will try booting his 1008ha again. now.
[14:55] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: the first thing it did was delete everything in /boot
[14:56] <gordonjcp> despite leaving the "Format?" box unchecked, the installer seems to think that it would be better off with a nice clean /boot
[14:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> Back at login prompt. Boot time started at 15:55:12
[14:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Now at desktop
[14:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Just over 3 minutes,
[14:58] <oimon> you need bootchart
[14:59] <gordonjcp> oh nice
[14:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Compiz is running - yes.
[14:59] <gordonjcp> thanks, Ubuntu, thanks a bunch.  I really needed 8G of swap where my Haiku partition used to be
[15:08] <bigcalm> !lag
[15:08] <lubotu3`> You have lag, I don't have lag
[15:08] <bigcalm> !ping
[15:08] <lubotu3`> another contentless ping... sigh...
[15:08]  * bigcalm pats lubotu3` 
[15:09] <bigcalm> popey: http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/listparts.aspx?model=Revo+3600+Series&Cat=RAM yay or neigh?
[15:10] <popey> want to know what i have in mine?
[15:10] <bigcalm> Please
[15:10] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: you should normally get the install alongside option http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/alongside.png
[15:10] <AlanBell> if that doesn't come up then it is a bug
[15:11] <bigcalm> AlanBell: it offered me those options when I did a fresh install
[15:11] <daubers> AlanBell: unless you already have 4 primary partitions?
[15:11] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: I didn't see anything like that
[15:11] <popey> bigcalm: http://pastebin.com/v3yDTsti
[15:11] <AlanBell> daubers: then you are a bit screwed
[15:11] <popey> CT25664AC800.M16FH
[15:11] <Azelphur> btw someone ported most of iPhone siri features to android in 8 hours :D
[15:11] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: although granted I'm using a daily from a day or two before the actual release
[15:12] <MooDoo> Azelphur: url?
[15:12] <bigcalm> Haha, Crucial are recommending that I upgrade with a  256GB SSD for only 381.59 quid
[15:12] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: yeah, sometimes it doesn't offer the "alongside" option, I don't know what the logic is on that
[15:12] <Azelphur> MooDoo: http://www.chargeforums.com/forum/droid-charge-news/1265-iris-siri-like-app-android-alpha.html
[15:12] <popey> bigcalm: http://www.crucial.com/uk/search/searchresults.aspx?keywords=CT25664AC800
[15:12] <popey> bigcalm: M4-CT064M4SSD2 is the ssd in mine
[15:12] <popey> (thats angelyne)
[15:12] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: tbh I'm unlikely to try Ubuntu if it insists on being the *only* OS on the machine
[15:12] <popey> it doesnt gordonjcp
[15:13] <popey> i have 3 OS's on my pc and all the ubuntu installs have grub which allows me to boot all the others
[15:13] <MooDoo> Azelphur: awesome
[15:13] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: dual boot with windows will be very well tested, dual boot with hurd, a bit less so
[15:13] <Azelphur> MooDoo: indeed, there's also edwin that has been around since before Siri that's quite good
[15:13] <AlanBell> but if it doesn't work it is a bug
[15:13] <gordonjcp> popey: it clobbered /boot and installed grub
[15:13] <Azelphur> MooDoo: edwin has more OS integration, iris has a knowledge engine
[15:13] <gordonjcp> popey: it didn't ask at any point if that's what I wanted, it just went ahead and did it
[15:14] <MooDoo> Azelphur: get the cyanogen mod guys to get it in there as a default thing :)
[15:14] <Azelphur> MooDoo: haha, it's in alpha atm and as I say they pretty much need to merge in order to have something really cool, but it's certainly quick off the mark
[15:14] <popey> yes, i saw that
[15:14] <popey> i don't know what buttons you pressed though
[15:15] <gordonjcp> popey: well, I went to "something else", set it up to use /boot and an unused 8GB partition for / and the existing 2GB partition for swap
[15:16] <gordonjcp> popey: I made sure it wasn't going to format /boot or swap, but was going to format /sda8
[15:16] <popey> it didnt format /boot
[15:16] <popey> it deleted all files in /boot
[15:16] <popey> this is what I would expect
[15:16] <popey> (I suspect)
[15:17] <popey> do you have the logs of the install?
[15:17] <popey>  /var/log/dpkg/ somewhere?
[15:17] <gordonjcp> popey: yes, that's what I said, it clobbered everything in /boot
[15:17] <gordonjcp> why the hell would you expect it to delete everything in /boot ?
[15:17] <gordonjcp> that makes no sense
[15:18] <gordonjcp> how is it supposed to coexist with other OSes then?
[15:18] <AlanBell> it should set up grub options for all the operating systems it finds, dunno whether I would expect it to delete other stuff in /boot though
[15:19] <gordonjcp> I'd expect it to leave /boot alone
[15:19] <ormiret> Is it normal to share /boot between different installs? I've always left it in the / for each install
[15:19] <gordonjcp> since, y'know, that's where you'd leave the kernels and initrds for other OSes
[15:19] <gordonjcp> ormiret: fine if you're not using grub
[15:20] <gordonjcp> ormiret: since grub can't cope with the boot files being on anything other than ext2 or fat
[15:22] <AlanBell> or ext3/4
[15:26] <chambo> gordonjcp, Didn't you back up?
[15:28] <bigcalm> Odd, a table isn't showing up in CakePHP's bake script. Why might that be I wonder?
[15:30] <gord> hehe, you bake in cakephp. cute
[15:31] <davmor2> yeah most people use ovens nowadays :D
[15:32] <Monsterwizard> netlogo
[15:32] <geekMePlease> How can you force 11.10 to ask the password of your USB modem?
[15:33] <geekMePlease> * my Huawei U367 just stopped to ask my password so not letting me to internet
[15:34] <geekMePlease> The content of my Dmesg is at http://paste.ubuntu.com/712121/
[15:34] <geekMePlease> Can you see anything about the modem and its state?
[15:34] <chambo> I just discovered that shift+insert pastes the same as middle click
[15:35] <chambo> Don't know how I didn't know that
[15:35] <geekMePlease> the thing may be related to VMware bug in 11.10, but we are not sure
[15:36] <geekMePlease> * the log suggests me that the device is deteched
[15:36] <AlanBell> geekMePlease: could it be related to your gnome keyring?
[15:36] <geekMePlease> AlanBell: How?
[15:37] <geekMePlease> AlanBell: the given key is not there
[15:38] <geekMePlease> AlanBell: I have inserted the given password to my network manager but for some reason it is not using that
[15:38] <geekMePlease> * so it has been asking me the password at every startup
[15:38] <AlanBell> just looking at the dmesg output
[15:38] <geekMePlease> * but now not so no connection to internet with the modem
[15:38] <geekMePlease> ok
[15:39] <AlanBell> around line 1284 to 1316 it is flipping between being a modem and a CDrom
[15:39] <bigcalm> Eugh, one of those
[15:39] <AlanBell> dunno if it has modeswitched back into useless mode
[15:40] <geekMePlease> AlanBell: Why is it doing it?
[15:41] <geekMePlease> AlanBell: So it get out of the usb connection after trying to get in
[15:41] <AlanBell> these things sometimes pretend to be a USB CD rom which contains Windows drivers for the modem
[15:41] <AlanBell> when the drivers are installed they modeswitch into being a modem
[15:42] <geekMePlease> AlanBell: You mean there is memory in the modem
[15:42] <AlanBell> yeah
[15:42] <geekMePlease> it is not seen in the /media
[15:42] <geekMePlease> so I cannot delete the given windows drivers there
[15:43] <geekMePlease> * I probably need windows pc to remove them
[15:43] <popey> you dont need to delete the windows drivers
[15:43] <AlanBell> by default they are in useless CDROM mode, but usbmodeswitch normally detects the USB ID and on insertion flips the mode into modem mode
[15:43] <AlanBell> it does this right at line 859
[15:43] <geekMePlease> How can you force them to be in CDROM mode?
[15:44] <AlanBell> starts as a CD and then turns into a modem
[15:44] <AlanBell> but then later on it appears to flip back again
[15:44] <geekMePlease> Ok, but why does it change its opinion later
[15:44] <AlanBell> I don't know why, or how to fix it, but I guess that is why the password prompt isn't happening
[15:45] <geekMePlease> can it be related to /etc/network/interfaces?
[15:45] <geekMePlease> * I have had problems with it
[15:46] <geekMePlease> * they changed things there to 11.10: my current /etc/network/interfaces: http://paste.ubuntu.com/712132/
[15:47] <popey> perhaps bug 776959
[15:47] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 776959 in usb-modeswitch-data (Ubuntu) "huawei e367 does not work" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/776959
[15:47] <popey> geekMePlease: what version of the package usb-modeswitch-data do you have installed?
[15:48] <popey> the command dpkg -L usb-modeswitch-data  will tell you
[15:49] <geekMePlease> popey: the output: sb_modeswitch.rules
[15:49] <geekMePlease> popey: sorry, here http://paste.ubuntu.com/712137/
[15:49] <popey> que?
[15:49] <popey> sorry, I meand lower case L
[15:49] <popey> *meant
[15:49] <popey> geekMePlease: can you also pastebin the output of lsusb
[15:50] <AlanBell> !info lo-menubar
[15:51] <lubotu3`> lo-menubar (source: lo-menubar): A LibreOffice extension for the global menubar. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.1.0-0ubuntu1 (natty), package size 37 kB, installed size 168 kB
[15:51] <geekMePlease> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/712143/
[15:51] <AlanBell> why isn't libreoffice global menu installed by default?
[15:51] <popey> geekMePlease: you're on ubuntu 11.10?
[15:51] <geekMePlease> popey: Yes.
[15:52] <popey> geekMePlease: looks like there is a missing entry for your usb device
[15:52] <geekMePlease> popey: Why?
[15:52] <popey> you have a 12d1:1506 which isn't listed in /lib/udev/rules.d/40-usb_modeswitch.rules
[15:52] <popey> when it should be
[15:52] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/712144/
[15:52] <popey> see that
[15:53] <popey> I would file a bug against usb_modeswitch
[15:53] <popey> ubuntu-bug usb-modeswitch-data
[15:54] <geekMePlease> popey: How can I fix the given issue? By replacing the file 40-usb_modeswitch.rules with some other file?
[15:54] <popey> firstly I would file a bug
[15:54] <geekMePlease> and say that there is a missing entry in the given file
[15:54] <geekMePlease> * 12d1:1506
[15:55] <popey> I would explain that the device you have doesn't work in 11.10, and there doesn't seem to be a supporting entry in /lib/udev/rules.d/40-usb_modeswitch.rules which is part of usb-modeswitch-data, yes.
[15:55] <popey> i would expect you are not the first to have this issue
[15:55] <popey> further I would expect others have constructed the necessary data to put in that file to make it work
[15:56] <geekMePlease> ok, my internet connection speed is very very low so it is not possible now for me to file a bug
[15:57] <gordonjcp> chambo: I did, which is why I was able to restore things to normal
[15:57] <geekMePlease> popey: the whole device Huawei E367 is missing in the given file
[15:57] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: hm, I've never really got grub to work on ext4
[15:58] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: that said, the first thing that's going to happen is grub is getting replaced by syslinux *anyway*
[15:58] <geekMePlease> there is only the old huawei modems, probably that is the issue
[15:58] <popey> gordonjcp: works out of the box on 11.04 and 11.10
[15:58] <popey> geekMePlease: yes, there seems to be something missing
[15:58] <gordonjcp> popey: right, but it's a pita to set up for anything else
[15:58] <popey> geekMePlease: they do re-use USB IDs though, which is annoying
[15:58] <chambo> gordonjcp: Always good to have a backup :)
[15:58]  * popey shrugs
[15:59] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: basically ext4/3 can be opened as ext2 (with exceptions)
[15:59] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: I must admit, I didn't investigate it very thoroughly
[15:59] <gordonjcp> it didn't work with ext4, so I tried again with ext2
[15:59] <geekMePlease> popey: you mean the new modems reuse the usb IDs of the old ones?
[16:00] <popey> some do
[16:00] <popey> some dont
[16:00] <popey> it's not a direct mapping 1:1 of usb ID to device
[16:00] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: then I just used syslinux which doesn't care either way
[16:02] <bigcalm> Replacement ram ordered for the Revo. Existing Revo ram might make its way into the EeePC
[16:04] <popey> heh
[16:04] <popey> bigcalm: thats exactly what I did
[16:04] <popey> the kids have my old ram in their eee pcs
[16:04] <bigcalm> :D
[16:05] <geekMePlease> popey: I am hitchiking at the moment. Is there any way to download upgrades such that the system upgrade process does not stop when the internet connection gets disturbed?
[16:05] <popey> ya
[16:05] <popey> sudo apt-get update
[16:05] <popey> sudo apt-get -d dist-upgrade
[16:05] <popey> that will download only
[16:06] <popey> and if it gets interrupted, it will carry on next time you run it
[16:06] <geekMePlease> popey: I want to do partial upgrade as the visual update-manager proposes
[16:06] <geekMePlease> popey: How can you do that after downloading?
[16:06] <popey> take out the "-d"
[16:06] <popey> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[16:07] <geekMePlease> popey: I had the files :) have not been running the given command just
[16:08] <geekMePlease> popey: Can I keep Irssi open as I do partial system upgrade?
[16:08] <popey> sure
[16:08] <popey> should be fine
[16:08] <geekMePlease> ok thanks!
[16:09] <AlanBell> so how does one install/upgrade to precise pangolin?
[16:09] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: is it open yet?
[16:10] <AlanBell> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/precise/
[16:12] <geekMePlease> popey: I keep getting the following error http://paste.ubuntu.com/712161/ in partial upgrade
[16:13] <geekMePlease> popey: do not seem to be severe errors
[16:13] <geekMePlease> How can you disable dictionaries-common?
[16:14] <geekMePlease> * It has been crashing with me every day often
[16:14] <geekMePlease> such that it is not installed again by updates
[16:15] <geekMePlease> I forgot the name of the files that list default programs in the Ubuntu where apt-get goes to see what programs are needed
[16:16] <geekMePlease> probably in synaptic
[16:18] <geekMePlease> yes, Synaptic handles the job.
[16:19] <gord> davmor2, *cough* http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/lge2i/coming_to_uds_like_video_games_come_play_with_us/
[16:21] <davmor2> gord: *cough* oh
[16:22] <geekMePlease> popey: Why does the command, "sudo apt-get -d dist-upgrade", get different files as the visual program Update-manager?
[16:22] <geekMePlease> popey: I get a lot more new files, also critical updates, by the visual program.
[16:22] <NET||abuse> hmm, i have a backup of Maildir's from an old server on my laptop, any good programs for opening maildirs directly on my HDD?
[16:23] <geekMePlease> popey: It seems that different files control the two programs: one for apt-get and the other for update-manager
[16:24] <geekMePlease> How can you see the different files which control the programs apt-get and update-manager in updating your system?
[16:24] <geekMePlease> I would like to have consistency between the given programs.
[16:24] <AlanBell> geekMePlease: it is basically the same stuff
[16:24] <geekMePlease> AlanBell: What does "basically" mean here?
[16:25] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] The four personality types on the spectrum of facial hair - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/10/18/the-four-personality-types-on-the-spectrum-of-facial-hair
[16:25] <geekMePlease> AlanBell: Why did I get critical network-manager update only from Update-manager?
[16:25] <geekMePlease> AlanBell: and not from apt-get?
[16:26] <AlanBell> apt-get dist-upgrade pulls in new packages, apt-get upgrade only updates existing packages
[16:26] <geekMePlease> AlanBell: aah, ok, I had a misunderstanding here, thanks!
[16:27] <geekMePlease> AlanBell: but still network-manager was my existing program so your sentence does not explain it
[16:27] <AlanBell> yeah, it doesn't explain that!
[16:28] <geekMePlease> AlanBell: But, probably there was a missing file, a package, in the program.
[16:28] <geekMePlease> AlanBell: Aah, got it. Apt-get dist-upgrade gets also new files to existing packages.
[16:28] <geekMePlease> AlanBell: Thank you!
[16:29] <geekMePlease> * I will read logs if I got message later, ..., need to restard the given system now.
[16:34] <AlanBell> popey: real 0m3.591s
[16:38] <AlanBell> I should be able to match your result, same processor
[16:40] <popey> :D
[16:40] <popey> hugo random benchmark?
[16:40] <popey> I'll see how high I can overclock it :D
[16:42] <AlanBell> probably shouldn't overclock this server
[16:42] <popey> heh
[16:42] <popey> wuss
[16:42] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer wouldn't even let me put a non-LTS on it
[16:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> quite right too
[16:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> Signal is crap from the school field. signing out.
[16:59] <Monsterwizard> how safe is pen drive linux?
[16:59] <jacobw> define safe
[16:59] <Monsterwizard> I don't want it messing up my windows HDD
[17:00] <Monsterwizard> "Does not touch the hard drive
[17:00] <Monsterwizard> and windowd"
[17:00] <jacobw> it shouldn't
[17:00] <Monsterwizard> hope not
[17:02] <jacobw> it should have a 'installation target' option, which you set to the drive letter representing your flash drive.
[17:02] <jacobw> i've only used unetbootin on windows, so i'm not familiar with the pendrivelinux interface
[17:04] <Monsterwizard> it's very nice
[17:37] <AlanBell> Laney: MooDoo: up for a happy hour at the Salutation Inn on 10/11/2011?
[17:39] <AlanBell> or any other Nottingham area peeps for that matter
[17:45] <daubers> o/
[17:46]  * AlanBell gets ready for comments from the Kubuntu users :)
[17:52] <Laney> sounds good
[17:52] <gippers> hi. I'm struggling to get libpam-mount to work on my wireless laptop.
[17:52] <gippers> it seems to be a startup order issue (ie. attempting to mount before the network is available)
[17:52] <gippers> I see these entries in dmesg:
[17:52] <Laney> would have chosen a different pub but ho hum
[17:52] <gippers> [ 13.605194] CIFS VFS: Error connecting to socket. Aborting operation
[17:52] <gippers> [ 13.605199] CIFS VFS: cifs_mount failed w/return code = -101
[17:53] <gippers> does anyone know how I can fix this?
[17:53] <AlanBell> Laney: now is the time to choose a different one
[17:54] <Laney> just that the sal can be a bit noisy / busy / table-less (unless you reserve one of the side rooms)
[17:54] <Laney> roundhouse? does good food too
[17:54] <Laney> also camra discount :-)
[17:54] <AlanBell> ok, I will update it to that
[17:55] <AlanBell> gippers: doesn't wifi now come up prior to login?
[18:17] <gippers> @Alan: my wifi connects when I log in. Not sure if that's the norm or not for an 11.04 desktop
[18:17] <jacobw> \o/ vi on the podcast
[18:17] <AlanBell> oh, that is normal for 11.04, I think in 11.10 you can connect prior to logging on
[18:25] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Bell] Free Ubuntu 11.10 CDs for the UK - http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/10/18/free-ubuntu-11-10-cds-for-the-uk/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=free-ubuntu-11-10-cds-for-the-uk
[18:25] <matti> :-)
[18:26] <gippers> @Alan: OK, am trying this out: http://supersaniya.com/2011/07/11/connect-to-wireless-network-wpa-in-ubuntu-11-04-using-command-line/
[18:26] <gippers> need to reboot
[18:31] <gippers> hmm, well that did naught but make matters worse (no wireless at all)
[18:31] <AlanBell> oops
[18:31] <gippers> this is rapidly turning into an excuse to upgrade to 11.10
[18:31] <AlanBell> I think one way or another you need wifi before login
[18:32] <AlanBell> which means the key not being in the users gnome-keyring
[18:32] <gippers> yeah. You say this is an option in 11.10?
[18:33] <AlanBell> I believe so, but have not personally tested that feature
[18:33] <gippers> ok, will play with it before committing then
[18:33] <gippers> thanks for the help
[19:25] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Active Traffic Management - http://zrmt.com/2011/10/18/active-traffic-management/
[19:27] <StevenR> I opened a bug for a display issue under natty. The issue remains after upgrading to oneiric... How do I alter the bug to reflect this? Other than a comment, is there something else I need to do ?
[19:37]  * popey notes andylockran is incorrect about his understanding of the law on horn use
[19:42] <Laney> :;.,
[19:42] <Laney> ubuntu mono's punctuation is too weedy
[19:42] <penguin42> StevenR: A comment should be fine
[19:49] <SuprEngr> hmmm...  Topic for #ubuntu-uk-meeting is: Next meeting Monday September 19th at 21:00 UK time.
[19:49]  * SuprEngr hmmmms
[19:50]  * Laney hams
[19:58] <AlanBell> oops
[19:58]  * jacobw gets the TARDIS
[19:59] <StevenR> penguin42: ok. thanks
[20:01] <Laney> for some reason upgrading with update-manager makes me feel more nervous than using apt directly
[20:02] <brobostigon> aptitude safe-upgrade , make me feel the safest.
[20:10] <Kev`> Hi!, my Software-center is failing to start, does anyone know where I can see the error causing it so I can google ?:)
[20:10] <Azelphur> Kev`: try running it in a terminal?
[20:10] <Kev`> I get loads 'f "Gtk-warning" messages that don't seem to be anything
[20:17] <Azelphur> Kev`: make sure it isn't already running when you try and run it again
[20:17] <Azelphur> the process can be alive without the gui showing up
[20:19] <Kev`> thx il have a bash :-)
[20:25] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Networking  lets get complicated. - http://zrmt.com/2011/10/18/networking-lets-get-complicated./
[20:25] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Day oMeetings - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/18/day-omeetings/
[20:37] <bigcalm> How do I re-enable wifi having just turned it off?
[20:37] <bigcalm> The option to use wifi has dissapeared from the menu
[20:41] <andylockran> Howdy all
[20:42] <andylockran> Any networking chaps about?
[20:44] <bigcalm> !ask | andylockran
[20:44] <lubotu3`> andylockran: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
[20:51] <Monsterwizard> !patience
[20:51] <lubotu3`> Don't feel ignored and repeat your question quickly; if nobody knows your answer, nobody will answer you. While you wait, try searching https://help.ubuntu.com or http://ubuntuforums.org or http://askubuntu.com/
[21:08] <andylockran> openssl version -d
[21:16] <Monsterwizard> Ok I propose a change in the education of computing
[21:16] <Monsterwizard> First lets start with the BTEC in IT practioners
[21:17] <Monsterwizard> Like the name suggests it should be very industry based
[21:17] <Monsterwizard> perhaps interships would be good
[21:17] <Monsterwizard> Focus on more practicle elements of computing but don't ignore the essential abracts
[21:18] <Monsterwizard> Now for the A-Level in computing...introduce programming(perhaps python or visual basic)
[21:18] <Monsterwizard> again more maths needed
[21:19] <Monsterwizard> kids know how to use computers.
[21:26]  * AlanBell suggests Monsterwizard blogs this fine suggestion
[21:27] <Monsterwizard> Honestly, kids are ahead of the computing a-level program. They know how to use MS Office.
[21:28] <bigcalm> I just upgraded my work station to 11.10
[21:28] <bigcalm> Whoops
[21:28] <bigcalm> Now my multiple monitor set up is unuseable :)
[21:28] <Azelphur> bigcalm: multi X?
[21:28] <webpigeon_web> MonsterKiller, that's A2 level, surely :O
[21:28] <bigcalm> In 11.04 I had a seperate x session on each monitor
[21:29] <bigcalm> I'm not sure if that's the case any more or not. Hard to tell what's going on
[21:29] <MonsterKiller> lol wrong highlight?
[21:29] <Azelphur> bigcalm: white background, black X pointer?
[21:29] <bigcalm> Yes
[21:30] <Azelphur> bigcalm: 11.10 can't do multi X any more with unity
[21:30] <Azelphur> gnome 3 falls over and dies much like gnome 2
[21:30] <bigcalm> Yay
[21:30] <Azelphur> I "fixed" it by going to xfce, it actually supports multi X
[21:30] <Azelphur> I run XUbuntu now :D
[21:30] <webpigeon_web> MonsterKiller, indeed, sorry
[21:30] <Monsterwizard> it seriously upsets me
[21:30] <bigcalm> I wondered if another wm would work. Lets have a look at xfce
[21:30] <bigcalm> Ta
[21:30] <Monsterwizard> We have amazingly complex a-levels
[21:30] <webpigeon_web> Monsterwizard, you and me both (having done an a level in applied IT)
[21:30] <Monsterwizard> which are the same as a first year at degree level
[21:30] <Azelphur> bigcalm: yea, it's great for multi screen has proper support for it with independent wallpapers and stuff
[21:31] <webpigeon_web> Currently doing a computer science degree which is Awesome \o/
[21:31] <Monsterwizard> same
[21:31] <MonsterKiller> heh, im doing a BTEC national diploma for IT practitioners atm
[21:31] <Monsterwizard> what modules?
[21:31] <webpigeon_web> Monsterwizard, my first year of degree was far more intresting than anything i did at a level
[21:32] <webpigeon_web> This year, languages and compilers, Exteme programming, advanced programming and CE301, which is basiclly, "waterfall for dummies"
[21:32] <MonsterKiller> System security, computer systems, e-commerce, website design, databases, speadsheets, it tech support, networking
[21:32] <webpigeon_web> MonsterKiller, ah :P
[21:32] <MonsterKiller> and some others which i forget
[21:32] <MonsterKiller> programming
[21:33] <MonsterKiller> but in VB.net
[21:33] <MonsterKiller> :/
[21:33] <Monsterwizard> lol
[21:33] <webpigeon_web> I did Java, c and c++
[21:33] <Monsterwizard> assembly anyone?
[21:33] <webpigeon_web> The embedded systems people did it last year :P
[21:33] <MonsterKiller> lol
[21:34] <webpigeon_web> I was doing gforth today
[21:34] <webpigeon_web> hearing the words, "untyped postscript" is really depressing :P
[21:34] <MonsterKiller> o.O
[21:35] <webpigeon_web> I've also been playing with lua, now THERE's a bonkers language
[21:35] <webpigeon_web> print( true and "hello" ) prints "hello"
[21:36] <webpigeon_web> since when did boolean statements return strings!
[21:38] <webpigeon_web> MonsterKiller, what degree year you in?
[21:39] <MonsterKiller> im not doing a degree :p
[21:39] <MonsterKiller> BTEC national diploma, but im doing my 2nd year
[21:39] <bigcalm> That's xfce installed and I have my 3 monitors back. Thanks Azelphur :)
[21:40] <bigcalm> Azelphur: seems a bit buggy though. Would it help to remove Unity or is that not possible?
[21:40] <webpigeon_web> bigcalm, xubuntu?
[21:40] <bigcalm> Ubuntu with xfce installed
[21:41] <webpigeon_web> bigcalm, ah sorry, was surgesting that as "ubuntu without unity"
[21:41] <webpigeon_web> although lubuntu ships with chrome now, not sure if that's a ubuntu thing (on fedora still)
[21:42] <gord> bah, decided to get a new book for my plane journey to UDS, its super thick and weighs 2.5kg :( not taking that then http://ubuntuone.com/66KFcSHxKfTlIbkdKl8AhK
[21:42] <gord> bigcalm, why would unity cause any bugs with xfce?
[21:42] <gord> if xfce is buggy then blame xfce :P
[21:47] <bigcalm> I don't want to blame anything, I want a working system
[21:47] <bigcalm> Are there meant to be panels with xfce?
[21:47] <webpigeon_web> bigcalm++
[21:48] <bigcalm> Ah, I had to run them myself, odd
[21:52] <bigcalm> The default theme is a bit ugly :(
[21:53] <Azelphur> bigcalm: what, Unity is starting in xfce?
[21:53] <bigcalm> Reminds me of when we all tried to make the desktop look like windows 95, but worse
[21:53] <Azelphur> what did you do to get xfce?
[21:53] <bigcalm> I don't know if Unity is interfering with xfce or not, just speaking my mind.
[21:53] <bigcalm> I installed the xfce4 meta package via the Software Centre
[21:53] <gord> do you have unity launcher on the left and the unity panels?
[21:53] <Azelphur> bigcalm: ah, install xubuntu-desktop
[21:54] <gord> if not, no, its not even running
[21:54] <bigcalm> gord: no
[21:54] <bigcalm> Azelphur: k
[21:56] <bigcalm> Just noticed that the mouse wheel changes workspaces, I missed that :)
[22:01] <gord> ah yeah that is nice
[22:01] <gord> the "i don't know wtf it is, just let me find it" binding
[22:02] <bigcalm> Lets see if I can get this system ready for work tomorrow morning :S
[22:03] <bigcalm> Why did I do this on a 'school night' ?
[22:04] <gord> too busy partying on a weekend!
[22:06] <bigcalm> Seems to have set the default browser to be firefox :S
[22:10] <bigcalm> Right, is it possible to set up default system fonts?
[22:27] <gord> in xfce? no idea
[22:28] <bigcalm> Baby steps :S
[22:28] <bigcalm> At least Eclipse still knows that I want Ubuntu Mono as the editor font
[22:29] <webpigeon_web> eclipse knows all
[22:29] <webpigeon_web> except that i don't want pydev in menus for java projects...
[22:29] <bigcalm> The only bad thing about Eclipse is that it's Java
[22:30] <webpigeon_web> I like java :P
[22:30] <bigcalm> I like minecraft, so I have to like java a little
[22:30] <bigcalm> Oh, best check that still works!
[22:30] <webpigeon_web> :P
[22:30] <bigcalm> And add it to a launcher
[22:32] <gord> eclipse looks good, but i'm not smart enough to use it
[22:35] <bigcalm> I use it for PHP dev, so doubt I use 10% of it
[22:45] <bigcalm> Yep, minecraft still works :D
[22:45] <bigcalm> And is wonderfully smooth for some reason
[22:49] <bigcalm> Volume control seems to have gone from the panel
[22:50] <Andres-kain> silly question, how can i leave the terminal running?  from a shortcut?
[22:50] <Andres-kain> with the command in terminal thing checked
[22:51] <Andres-kain> i remember it was something i had to add at the end of the command
[22:51] <Andres-kain> damn, battery low...
[22:55] <Myrtti> talktalk blackout :-(
[22:55] <hamitron> yey
[22:55] <hamitron> :)
[22:56] <Myrtti> yay?
[22:56] <hamitron> yeh
[22:56] <hamitron> my left little pinky was been lazy
[22:56] <hamitron> ;/
[22:58]  * bigcalm hugs Myrtti
[23:56] <lazarus_> sup